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MEDINA CITY COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES OF MAY 2, 2000
The City Council of Medina, Minnesota met in regular session on May 2, 2000 at 7:30 p.m. in
the City Hall Chambers. Mayor John Ferris presided.
Members present: Ferris, Zietlow, Hamilton, Smith, and Johnson at 8:15 p.m.
Members absent: None.
Also present: Police Chief Ed Belland, Attorney Ron Batty, City Engineer Tom Kellogg,
Planning & Zoning Administrator Loren Kohnen, and Planning and Zoning Assistant Sandie
Larson
2. Table Approval of April 18, 2000 Regular City Council Minutes
Moved by John Hamilton, and seconded by Phil Zietlow, to table approval of the April 18, 2000
city council minutes to the May 16, 2000 meeting. Motion passed unanimously.
3. Consent Agenda
A. Approval of On Site Sewage Treatment System (ISTS) Ordinance
Phil Zietlow asked that this item be removed from the consent agenda since the information had
just been received this evening and moved to the next meeting.
Moved by Jim Johnson, and seconded by Phil Zietlow, to table approval of the ISTS Ordinance
to the May 16, 2000 meeting. Motion passed unanimously.
4. Comments from Residents in Attendance on Items Not on the Agenda
There were none.
5. Park Commission Comments
There were none.
6. Planning Commission Comments
Loren Kohnen stated that there was a lot combination/re-plat at the next planning commission
meeting.
7. Approval of PUD Ordinance
Moved by John Hamilton, and seconded by Carolyn Smith, to discuss the PUD ordinance.
Motion passed unanimously.
Phil Zietlow said he had questions related to definitions. Page 3 - he wondered if there should
be a definition of village setting.
Carolyn Smith said there would be a variety of housing types and in reality there will still be a
range, but not as broad as we originally talked about. She said the term village meant a variety
of houses with maybe a community center to bring everything closer together.
Zietlow suggested the words `Village Setting and" be deleted and just say Housing - Establish
come common areas and allow a range of housing types. He then said that he thought
Understory Plants (page 3) should be defined.
Jim Johnson said this is a purpose statement and definitions are later in the ordinance.
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May 2, 2000
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There was discussion of the Uses that were outlined for PUD 1 and PUD 2.
Ron Batty said that it was concluded since this is a list of permitted uses, we should be
affirmative and not state excluded uses.
Zietlow wanted to know where the excluded uses are listed.
Batty said they are not.
There was further discussion on the proper form for an ordinance.
Zietlow wanted to know if `similar use' in #4 under Uses should be there - does it read right.
Batty said they had a long discussion on this. He said that one planning commission member
had mentioned a development where they converted an old barn into a building for community
use.
After further discussion it was decided to change #4 under Uses for both PUD 1 and PUD 2 to
"Community use structures".
Zietlow asked about #6 under PUD 1 and if each retail use would use up a sewer unit.
John Ferris asked Marc Anderson and David Newman if they intended to do any retail use.
They said no.
There was further discussion on whether to keep #6 in or take it out - it was left in.
Zietlow - page 4, on both PUD 1 and PUD 2 wanted to know if this was housing or sewer units.
There was considerable discussion on sewer units.
Johnson wanted to know if we were vague on sewer units in our other ordinances.
Batty said this is the only district where we define density. This is appropriate in a PUD. He
said that Phil raises a good question, is this housing units or sewer units. Retail or commercial
use could eat into the number of sewer units allowed.
It was decided to say "sewer" units.
Smith said that at the planning commission discussion on bonus units there was talk of 20-25%.
She said the planning commission came in at 20% - there is a difference of 6 units from 20 to
25%. She thought that the council should know the amount of the percentage had been
discussed at great length.
Zietlow wanted to know how you decide what percentage you would give the developer.
Johnson said that it pretty much states it in section ii - restoration part of ordinance.
Smith said that we talked about preservation and the developer had someone here showing us
the difference of preserving and restoring and restoring the property would greatly improve it.
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Zietlow wanted to know the degree of restoration.
Johnson said when it was presented to us, it showed going back to the natural shape of the land
before farming. He said the developers were talking massive restoration.
Smith said the developers concept plan showed 65% open space.
Johnson said that the committee was leaning toward no bonus until the developer came up with
their restoration plan.
Zietlow said he needed to have the criteria explained to him, what is the developer going to do
to earn the bonus.
There was further discussion on what a developer would have to do to earn a bonus.
Johnson said he is in favor of a 25% bonus based on what we have seen from the developer.
Zietlow wanted to know what would happen if this development does not go through, how then
do we deal with the bonus.
Ferris said this is a judgmental issue. It can be evaluated on what is presented. It is not easy to
define, judgement can be made on the plan that is submitted.
Batty said if someone different came in, the number of sewer units would go back to 120.
Smith said if a new plan came in, Loren Kohnen would evaluate it per this ordinance.
Johnson said we should know in the next few months if this plan goes through.
Zietlow said this ordinance has nothing to do with the plan that the developer has shown us.
Johnson said it is headed in the same direction.
There was further discussion on preservation - restoration - bonus, etc.
David Newman said it is practically impossible to draft the ordinance with all the variables in
restoration. He said they have no problem with it being subjective and the city deciding whether
we have earned the bonus.
Loren Kohnen said that a lot of work has gone into and will go into the conceptual plan and we
will hash it out when we go over that plan.
Batty said that whenever an ordinance allows discretion, you have to anticipate perimeters and
this ordinance does that. He said he is comfortable with this because there is a cap on the
percentage. He said as an example, the City decides if an application for a variance meets the
hardship criteria.
There was further discussion and the consensus of the council was to raise the percentage to
25% for the bonus in PUD 1.
Smith said she though it ridiculous that we don't think of a bonus for PUD 2 also.
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Ferris asked what she was thinking and Smith said the same as PUD 1.
Zietlow said that this is in the heart of Medina and he did not want to see further density than the
40 units.
Johnson said it was not as good a piece of property as PUD 1.
Ferris said how about 20% with the same criteria.
Smith said she thought that was a good idea.
Zietlow said that he has a hard time with more than 40 units. He said we have put that number
out for a long time for this piece of property.
Smith said she felt it is absurd that we are being pressured by people with the wrong
information, from when it was shown 75 units in an early concept plan for this property.
Ferris asked if the council wanted to put a bonus provision in for the PUD 2 area.
The consensus was no.
Smith wanted to go on record as 40 units being a mistake for PUD 2 without a bonus.
Ferris said the Mrs. Holasek is not interested in selling her property now, so lets leave it for now
and we might have to change it in the future.
Zietlow, page 5, b - he said he thought 3' was too restrictive for grading and wanted to know the
reason for it.
Kohnen said that a lot of work was done by Mr. Elwell on the site, building dams, etc. He said
he thought more than 3' might have to be done to fill in the old grade.
Ferris asked if the figure should be different or not in at all.
Smith said that we did not want to see the land leveled. She said the committee talked of
conserving the contours and Bill developed this language.
Zietlow wanted to know if we could leave the number out.
Kohnen said that the developers will want to do some berming, especially by the county road.
Smith said we could say excluding berming.
Ferris said to change - - greater than 3 feet will be permitted instead of also be considered'.
Newman said the way he reads it, except for the restoration and preservation, we are restricted
to 3'. He said he is very concerned with the 3' and suggests limiting it to 3' where there are
natural features and take it out elsewhere.
The consensus was to take out the second sentence.
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Zietlow asked what was meant by a structure in `f' on page 5.
Kohnen said anything over 4' and tennis courts and pools are also considered structures.
Zietlow asked about `g' page 5, what is `best views'.
Smith said developers know what it means.
There was further discussion and the consensus was that is was too confusing, so it would be
deleted.
Johnson asked about streets and roadways.
Sandie Larson had comments from Public Works director Jim Dillman who was not in
attendance. Dillman wanted both Public Streets and Private Roads to begin with: All roads
shall be built in accordance to city approved engineering standards.
Newman said that streets narrower than 20' can work.
Smith said there were lots of issues brought up at a seminar she had attended. She said she
would like to see flexibility if it could be proven that a lesser width would work in case Mr.
Dillman could be convinced.
Johnson said that over the years Medina has come up with the best roads and he would listen
to Jim with all of his experience.
Consensus was to use Jim's 1st sentence but add, ` but with the width being considered
separately.
Zietlow, page 6, j, Trees and Open Spaces - he said he would recommend wanting a variety of
trees.
There was further discussion and the consensus was to add (v) "variety of trees should be
planted".
Zietlow said that on page 7, (ii), it seems pretty restrictive with the size of trees.
Smith told Phil that at the presentation by the developer, they showed what they want to do.
Newman said they have not done a tree inventory, but with the overall plan with preservation
and restoration, they will be able to meet this part of the ordinance, but he hoped that there was
flexibility here.
Zietlow, page 8, p, he wanted to know who the covenants would be required by.
Agreed to add, - - - may be required "by the City".
Zietlow said later we talked about agreement with maintaining open space. Who will we agree
with?
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May 2, 2000
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Johnson said we're looking for options. Who would be responsible for open space, etc. Our
responsibility is that there is some organization for maintenance, etc.
Zietlow, page 8, item o, add horizontally.
Lenny Leuer said this is one sentence that he had talked to the lighting consultant about. The
light meter is directed at the light source.
Zietlow said then leave as is. He then asked about page 8, bb and what the size restrictions
would be.
Kohnen said it would be covered in our sign ordinance.
Batty said if it does not say it in this ordinance, we refer to the sign ordinance.
Newman said that in bb, they would be better off with minimal lighting rather then sheet lighting.
Marc Anderson said they have used different light schemes at Foxberry and it is bright there,
but we make a statement. In other places we have done background lighting just on the letters
and frankly he would like to see some flexibility so we can show you how it can work.
There was further discussion and it was decided to change unlighted monument to "at least one
monument sign "with minimal lighting subject to approval by the City", - - -".
Zietlow questioned page 9, (ii),(aa) Usable Open Space. He wondered if the 2500 square feet
is part of the 60% open space.
There was discussion on the portion and the consensus was to leave it out.
There also was discussion of the next section - Setbacks.
Batty said we do not want to have to grant variances. The smaller the lot, the smaller the
setback should be.
Kohnen and Batty both said the setback could be a percentage of the depth of the lot.
The consensus of the council was to have a rear yard setback of 30' except where a lot abuts
open space, then it could be 20'.
Ferris suggested we break from this application and deal with two of the items that people were
here for.
8. Final Plat Approval - Bell Knoll
Phil Zietlow asked about a trail. He said it is not in the preliminary resolution.
Ron Batty said there was an off set right-of-way. The City was taking a 35' right-of-way, so we
are getting enough ROW to have a trail.
Moved by Jim Johnson, and seconded by John Hamilton, to authorize the city attorney to
prepare the resolution granting Final Plat Approval to Bell Knoll. Motion passed
unanimously.
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May 2, 2000
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9. Final Plat Approval for Scherer Farms
Moved by Jim Johnson, and seconded by Carolyn Smith, to authorize the city attorney to
prepare the resolution granting Final Plat Approval to Scherer Farms. Motion passed
unanimously.
10. Approval of PUD Ordinance - Continued
Phil Zietlow, page 10, - what is modulated.
Lenny Leuer said modulate is where there is not one long wall.
Zietlow asked how appearance is measured.
Carolyn Smith said the homeowners association will take care of it.
Zietlow said we are talking design standards and if you can't measure it, is does not belong in
the ordinance.
There was discussion of appearance.
Ron Batty said at the first reading there was a surprisingly intrusive and restrictive ordinance.
The City will not be required to police things such as appearance. He stated that this ordinance
is obviously designed with one developer in mind and there is lots of loose language. As far as
aesthetic design issues, the City will look to the developer for leading it.
Zietlow, page 11, pp, Accessory Structures - don't we want the design to meet the criteria in our
accessory ordinance.
Consensus was to add to the end of the sentence - - dwellings "and comply with the City
accessory structure ordinance".
Zietlow, page 11, make sure language is the same as on previous page (3) that dealt with
community use and structures. He also wanted to make sure that throughout, the 1500' was the
same whenever talking of notifying property owners.
Zietlow questioned on page 18, f (I) the 2/3 vote and why not 4/5.
Batty explained that on a five person council, 2/3 was the same as 4/5. He said he likes to use
2/3 because that is what state statute says on zoning matters.
Ferris says this ordinance needs to be redrafted and we have to see it in final form.
Batty said you could authorize the resolution.
Ferris said that item #2 also needs to be moved to the next meeting.
Batty asked when the council expected this to be finalized, that it needs to be published. He
said it could be brought back on the 16`h and it could be sent to the paper the following week for
publication or staff could send it to the paper on the 15t`' for publication on the 18th. If the council
did not act on it on the 16`h, staff could check to see if the paper could pull it from the 18th
publication. He said he would anticipate that it would be published in title and summary.
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May 2, 2000
82
There was discussion on the timeline to follow for publication, etc.
Batty said council should direct staff to collectively make another draft of the ordinance and
bring it back to the city council
Johnson said that he wants staff feedback on the ordinance
After discussion it was decided that staff would send in the legals for publication on the 18t" and
the city council would deal with the issues on the 16tn
Zietlow wanted to know why PUD 1 and PUD 2 are not being acted on together (item #2 on
tonight's agenda)
Batty said what drove us for removing the moratorium on PUD 1 was a real live developer
wanting to make an application. He said there is no reason not to do PUD 2 also. He said he
could expand the resolution to include PUD 2.
Johnson said that PUD 2 was within 1000' of Uptown Hamel so it cannot be pulled out.
Batty said it could be taken out, but if the 1000' is not changed, then all of the Holasek property
is still under restrictions.
John Hamilton said we should be consistent and take the properties out of the moratorium as
we are finished with the ordinance.
Moved by Carolyn Smith and seconded by Jim Johnson to table the approval of the PUD
ordinance and also table the resolution removing both PUD 1 and PUD 2 from the moratorium.
David Newman passed out a letter to the council regarding a neighborhood meeting they will be
holding and also inviting the council to tour the site with them.
Ron Batty said a special meeting could be called if more than two council members wanted to
go at the same time.
Newman said only so many can fit into the vehicle at one time.
11. Discussion on Modifying Moratorium Ordinance to Allow Certain Activity
Ron Batty said his memo was in response to the discussion at the last council meeting and
these are the issues to be looked at.
Jim Johnson, Carolyn Smith and Phil Zietlow all agreed that we should stay the course.
Batty said that would also include no building permits.
Loren Kohnen asked about remodeling permits.
Batty said there was a discussion of building permits at the last council meeting and right now,
no building permits can be issued. He said Inn Kahoots had asked about exterior work and that
would be altering the looks of the building, so would not be permitted.
There was further discussion about building permits and Loren asked about demolition permits,
as he was working with the owner of the old lumber yard to take down the rest of the house.
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May 2, 2000
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After further discussion, the consensus was not to modify the moratorium ordinance, but
demolition permits could be issued.
12. Approval to Contract with HGA for Lighting/Glare Ordinance.
Ron Batty said this is the follow up to what has been done in the proposal that had been
submitted. He said he had talked with Pat Hunt and she confirmed that she has had no further
discussion with Paul. He said we would be authorizing her to go ahead with Phase 3 in her
proposal.
Moved by Carolyn Smith, and seconded by Phil Zietlow, to authorize HGA to go forward with
their proposal.
Phil Zietlow asked if this was the best timing.
Carolyn Smith said this is critical between UC1 and residential zoning.
Motion passed unanimously.
13. Resolution Authorizing Publication of ISTS Ordinance by Title and Summary
Moved by Phil Zietlow, and seconded by Jim Johnson, to table this to the next city council
meeting. Motion passed unanimously.
14. Resolution 00-13 Approving an Amendment to the $2,700,000 Commercial
Development Revenue Note of 1984
Ron Batty explained the resolution and why it was needed.
Moved by John Hamilton, and seconded by Phil Zietlow, to approve the resolution approving an
amendment to the $2,700,000 commercial development Revenue note of 1984. Motion
passed unanimously.
15 Approval to Pay the Bills
Moved by Jim Johnson, and seconded by Carolyn Smith, to approve the bills, order check
#20956-20995 for $72, 507.79 and payroll check # 16554-16573 for $17,221.43.
Phil Zietlow asked for clarification of the bill from Pat Hunt.
Motion passed unanimously.
16. Discussion of Lighting at Holiday Station
Julius Dorweiler asked about the lighting test at the Holiday Station.
There was considerable discussion concerning the test, the timing, etc. and Mr. Dorweiler's
irritation over this situation. It was decided that tomorrow Loren Kohnen would call or deliver a
letter to the station stating that the test was over and to turn the lights off.
17. Executive Session
Moved by Jim Johnson, and seconded by Carolyn Smith, to close the meeting and go into
executive session to discuss attorney/client privilege concerning Chippewa Road right-of-way
acquisition. Motion passed unanimously.
Moved by Jim Johnson and seconded by John Hamilton to reconvene the regular session.
Motion passed unanimously.
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May 2, 2000
84
18. Ad'lournment
Moved by Phil Zietlow, and seconded by Jim Johnson, to a
Motion passed unanimously.
Attest:
Sandie Larson, Planning and Zoning Assistant
urn the meeting at 11:00 p.m.
Ferris, Mayor
Medina City Council Meeting Minutes
May 2, 2000
85
ORDER CHECKS - MAY 2, 2000
20956 ORCHARD TRUST CO. AS $1,105.00
20957 P.E.R.A. $3,290.57
20958 AW W A $105.00
20959 BATTERIES PLUS $92.77
20960 BOECKER, KEVIN $42.34
20961 BRYAN ROCK PRODUCTS $932.79
20962 CIRCLE V SPECIALTIES, INC. $75.00
20963 CLASSIC CLEANING $399.38
20964 DELTA DENTAL $778.85
20965 DITTER, INC. $260.50
20966 DULTMEIER SALES $445.64
20967 FIRSTAR BANK $218.38
20968 FORTIS BENEFITS $246.76
20969 GOODIN CO. $310.68
20970 GRAINGER $352.82
20971 HAMMEL, GREEN AND ABRAHAMSON $2,216.86
20972 HATCH, JIM SALES $405.98,
20973 HENNEPIN CO.TREAS.,ACCTG.SVCS. $1,922.50
20974 HENNEPIN COUNTY TREASURER $97.63
20975 IMPREST FUND $666.23
20976 JEWELL NURSERIES $9,159.01
20977 LAKE BUSINESS SUPPLY $79.93
20978 LAKE PRODUCTIVITY TRAINING $122.07
20979 MEDICA CHOICE $6,296.55
20980 METRO WEST INSPECTION $34,158.20
20981 METROCALL $82.05
20982 MINNEGASCO $234.13
20983 MINNESOTA CHILD SUPP. PYT.CTR. $630.00
20984 MOTHERS MOTORS/LORETTO TOWING $40.00
20985 NORTHERN STATES POWER $2,098.26
20986 OIL AIR PRODUCTS $78.59
20987 RANDY'S SANITATION $109.87
20988 SCHERER MEATS $120.00
20989 ST. PAUL STAMP WORKS $35.41
20990 STREICHER'S $37.68
20991 THIBAULT ASSOCIATES $1,795.54 i
20992 U.S. WEST COMMUNICATIONS $456.32
20993 UNITED HORTICULTURAL SUPPLY $1,339.12
20994 WRIGHT-HENNEPIN ELECTRIC $1,594.38/
20995 XEROX CORPORATION $75.001
$72,507.79
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Medina City Council Meeting Minutes
May 2, 2000
86
PAYROLL CHECKS - 04-24-00
16554 HAMILTON, JOHN A. $138.52
16555 SMITH, CAROLYN A. $138.52
16556 FERRIS, JOHN B $207.79
16557 ZIETLOW, PHILIP K. $138.52
16558 JOHNSON, JAMES R. $138.52
16559 ROBINSON, PAUL A. $1,095.94
16560 SCHERER, STEVEN T. $1,068.47
16561 MCGILL, CHRISTOPHER R. $1,380.16
16562 ROUILLARD, MICHAEL J $795.89
16563 KROEGER, SCOTT W. $1,167.77
16564 DILLMAN, JAMES D. $1,544.26
16565 DRESSEL, ROBERT P $958.45
16566 BELLAND, EDGAR J. $1,880.62
16567 VIEAU, CECILIA M. $933.03
16568 SULANDER, LAURA L. $1,024.02
16569 LARSON, SANDRA L. $965.99
16570 BOECKER, KEVIN D. $335.13
16571 PRIEM, JON D. $1,232.56
16572 CHRISTENSON, JEREMY L. $978.62
16573 NYSTROM, JAMES $1,098.65
$17,221.43
Medina City Council Meeting Minutes
May 2, 2000