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HomeMy Public PortalAboutChitwood, MarthaMartha Darkwood Chitwood 2004 r INTERVIEW SUMMARY — TAPE INDEX NAME: Mrs. Martha Darkwood Chitwood DATE OF INTERVIEW: August 27, 2004 LOCATION: McCall, Idaho INTERVEWER: Marlene Bailey TAPE NO: TAPE TRANSCRIPT SUMMARY OF CONTENTS MINUTE PAGE 01:00 01 Martha's mother, Blanche Besecker's history & coming to McCall; her marriage to James Darkwood 05:00 02 James Darkwood's history; Lakeport Hardware Company; where family lived in McCall; 08:00 03 James Darkwood's education & early work & homesteading 10:00 04 Martha's early education in McCall 13:00 05 Martha's teaching in McCall; memories of childhood trips to Boise 16:00 06 Snow plowing with horses; McCall School 19:00 07 McCall School; Grace McRae; Old Dance Hall bought by School for Gym 22:00 08 School dances; Martha's working as HS student in new McCall Library 25:00 09 McCall Library; Payette Lakes Progressive Club 28:00 10 McCall Library 31:00 11 Martha's teaching; McCall School 33:00 12 Skiing in McCall; Blackwell's Ski Hill & Jump; Little Ski Hill; early Winter Carnivals 35:00 13 Blackwell's Racetrack; Ponderosa Park; Lakeport Hotel Ice Slide; tourism in McCall 38:00 14 Hay's family development; train trips to Boise; sheep driving up into McCall 43:00 15 Family horses; Bob Chitwood; using Payette Lake 47:00 16 Zimms & Bergdorf Hot Springs; driving trips 50:00 17 Texas; Congregational Church; clubs and bridge parties; movie theater; school plays at theater 56:00 18 Development of McCall; memories of the Brown's mill centering town 01:00 19 School sports, dances, plays, games 05:00 20 Trips to California; gardening in McCall during the Depression years 08:00 21 Fruitland & Mesa Orchards; fruit & vegetable peddlers; huckleberry picking 12:00 22 General Store; Drug Store; Bakery; Post Office 15:00 23 Helga Cook; Sharlie naming contest; Payette Lakes Inn; Northwest Passage filming; Nez Perce actors 20:00 24 Helping at the Hardware Store; Radio taken into the Back Country; Radio in McCall; Newspaper in McCall; Mother's Day flowers for her mother by train 25:00 25 Music; Politics; Schools in Valley 30:00 26 Children from outside McCall boarding in McCall for school; Depression years in McCall 35:00 27 (continued) 38:00 28 Memories of her mother, Grace McRae & Helga Cook 29 Addenda re Martha's miniature dog sled IDAHO ORAL HISTORY CENTER IDAHO STATE HISTORICAL SOCIETY 450 N. 4`h St. Boise, Idaho 83702 -6027 RELEASE OF RECORDINGS AND OTHER MATERIAL TO THE IDAHO STATE HISTORICAL SOCIETY'S ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM We, Martha Darkwood Chitwood and Marlene Bailey (Narrator) (Interviewer) hereby give, grant, and donate this (these) recording(s) and all other related material - -such as indexes or transcripts- -along with any and all rights, including copyright, therein to the Idaho State Historical Society (ISHS). We understand that conferring these rights to the ISHS does not prohibit us from using this (these) interview(s) for original work of our own creation, as long as we give the ISHS proper attribution. These recordings are considered a gift to the oral history program for such scholarly and educational purposes -- including, but not limited to, use in books, articles, newsletters, public presentations, museums exhibits, lectures, websites - -as at their sole discretion they shall determine. The space below or on the reverse side is given for us to place any restrictions on this (these) interview(s). Restrictions: XJ4 AI 0 0 Da e of fnterview Narrator's Signature Interviewer's Signature AMeLAI �zo �� b 3 S� • S� � 2� Narrat is Address & Phone Number -76- i • �L .: 1-7. MW 2,o f1 �F / • -7 341/ Inte iewer's Address & Phone IDAHO ORAL HISTORY CENTER PERSONAL DATA RECORD .S AA NARRATOR'S NAME: Address --71r :57&--j,- .tI �/�i�,� �IGG,Q t.,+- i /� Telephone (ag� Date of Birth ro 1a-o /l 41 Place of Birth C Lr /.,i tO Year came to Idaho /Q /9' Place first lived in Idaho Cj A.Q4t dc.j (b A4 Year came to the area now lived in (MLeA 44 I g %g l 4W,�4 /43G; Schooling I.- ,OR—) 0 2 /1& fer rd e &A 4,4.0 Aud:+ A cdN 44 L) 8f-- - Military service (branch, rank, dates, MOS) w*Z*-A! ACW a1,dA4- .5:je� AS Av Occupation(s) (what, where, and when) -:Z ` ,��t /rig �J, e.L, l'rr'fi .•�t� Gr n1rJ h . �/ TA 0"-7- /J .444 I t.,e— . /4 ,14,- / -1 - /f e, yl /gros S-tX�/cry kS L1,82d 0,07-a- /I V1 Principal activities and interests other than livelihood l L ge-V cl-06 q 5M &46 -P FAABLY: Spouse (1st): !�..e� T CNy i A Date and place married n o J Date of Birth /v–//-3 1/1 Place of Birth 477-6Q0 Spouse (2nd): ,trw¢..,/ Date and place married Date of Birth Place of Birth Children: Date of birth Place of birth Ara a r�-:J (over) IDAHO ORAL HISTORY CENTER PERSONAL DATA RECORD .S,4kA NARRATOR'S NAME: LA e-g l a A n w a b n Address ' /3— � �!'� 57 `'" .0 id ,l tilt �,d t.� i /� Telephone (2 1), 6a 41- yo ;L_- Date of Birth Place of Birth Year came to Idaho A /S' Place first lived in Idaho CjA.D4hekAj �4 A4} Year came to the area now lived in I e, /fx Schooling • /Z1 o,2J, 2 /4-k /ser a eorrw�fJ &A krel')l nit odA cup! tidvet, . Military service (branch, rank, dates, MOS) /jer Occupation(s) (what, where, and when) 2"4n P6ktik GA . 6-:f 4eA&�) 143q •/S Principal activities and interests other than livelihood STo ,-j i S�,d &j/ r C -Ve 14 5m I �1��►�lii`�� Spouse (1st): /4j6*,e7' -r, CW iT b 6a Q Date and place married /o ig j6— /k_ CAg-1 Date of Birth /2./i3 1/7 Place of Birth Spouse (2nd): Date and place married Date of Birth Place of Birth Children: Date of birth Place of birth (over) rid Ps., ��ay Sunday 1Vlo�nin� Services Nei Tuesday funeral services for, James Dark .­.wood were heldiruesday at the Mc- 4 !1 Co church:` - With is -14l passing - the - �dom- n t er -ot 'anoth I muity lost' Is long time residentk'.onewho -will be missed by sIL' J,amqs. -Darkiwood * was bo.Tn, ,III Milfordi -1 Indiana, Janu '4 ..ary %I.-Ag", He was married December#, 1913- to Miss Blanche S. Besecker -'.at Idaho My , At that .time Mr. park-, wood was the Boise, County Asset nty a- .or and - Miss Besecker the- 'CoU90: :'School Soperintendent. lPrioji-to holding-the county, offi- ce, jim, (as he was. kndWn'to, sit his friends) taught school 'in -thib vicb#ty- Jor -several years. 'Aiztpng pf--the, tovth,are the-. ris�tsi� -school Ii tue DaFksraed te him ...... . . . . . . stook yards. H� -e- an teaching` - in thib 11;�. -16,tii 1-- ­1 '- b Y !""at rip- company; Xweir Joe -Kasper. He died early Sunday morning in the Council hospital after, being In poor health for some monthb. The services Tuesday were attend- A by many and a wealth of fl tributes testified' to , the este with which the deceased was h4 Officiating at the funera. servi were George Dreher and Miss C. trude,.McCheyne. Surviving Mr.. Darkw ood are widow and his daughter, Mart of McCall; also three * .promers i -dRAksisters in Goshen,lndl"a, g one brother, Melvin Darkwood, Boise. 3e,�,t ) . / '? q Y S -r-3 V, ,iii BLANGHEV'S. DARKWQOD Services were held for ` Mrs. Blanche S. Darkwood at 2:30 p.m. Sunday, -may 3i at the Community Gongregational church. Mrs Darkwood was born in Hinsdale, New York May 28,..1 876. She moved with her family to Idaho ' in I po4. -She was married to . �Dark:wood December, e, 191 and; had aesided in McCall since AM Fbr "many- years she was GOA ty, Superintendent of Schools for Bosse County; which .then included wh it now Valley County. She served as chairman of the schoo board fc1 some years,- and -was anti active worker in the Community Congregational church. Mn;. Dar waad passed away the the McCall Memorial hispital, May at the age of, 83 years and one ,She is survived by one daughter '2.4xs. Rebert Chi'twood of Mc one brother, Mr. Ray Beseckero McCall twit sisters, Mrs. Wag- ner of Boise and Mm. Mae G Boy- les of Altadent, California. Interment was at McCall. l Rev. R. K. Bellingham officiated a� the services. " i r- Robert Thurman Chitwood Robert Thurman "Tex" Chitwood, 68, of McCall worked as a mechanic for the railroad in Fort Worth, died Wednesday, Feb. 6, 1985, in a McCall hopsital. Texas. Funeral services were held Saturday, Feb. 9, at the In 1943 he came to McCall where he worked for Community Congregational Church, McCall. Rev. Brown Tie and Lumber as a .mechanic and truck bill Edelen officiated, under the direction of Heik- driver for a number of years. He then built and own - 'kila Funeral Chapel, McCall. Burial will be in the ed Chitwood Cabins which.he managed until the time :McCall Cemetery. of his death. He married Martha Darkwood on Oct. Chitwood; manager of Chitwood Cabins, was 7, 1945,; at McCall. ;born Dec. 13, 1916, at Ector, Texas, a son of Bill and Survivors include his wife of McCall; two aunts, -Fra Chitwood. He grew up in Ector, where he work- Stoxie Freeman of Oklahoma City, Okla., and Veda ed for several farms, a service station, and for Jones ',Hogan of Bells, Texas; and numerous cousins in Field crewing aircraft. Texas. His parents, two sisters and a brother died earlier. In -1932 he joined the CCC. In 1935 he joined the Memorials may be made to the McCall Public U.S. Army receiving his discharge in 1941. He then Library. (SARA) MARTHA DARKWOOD CHITWOOD Tape 1 of 2, Side 1 of 4 This is an interview with Martha Darkwood Chitwood, who lives in McCall, Idaho. The interview is being given in the McCall Public Library. The interviewer is Marlene Bailey, and it is being done on August 27, 2004. We are going to talk about her parents, who were early settlers to this area, and about Martha's own career as one of the early teachers and librarians. MARLENE: I was interested that your mother (Blanche Besecker ) was teaching in Crawford. I wondered how she had come to teach in Crawford, when her family had lived in New York. Can you tell me about that? MARTHA: Yes, I can. Uh, the family had lived in New York for many years, but they wanted to come west. One uncle had already come west, and my mother, and her father, and her mother were planning to come to Boise, where the relatives had finally gotten to. A few days before they got the railway tickets, a few days before, my grandfather died. My mother and grandmother decided to come, and they took the train from New York to Boise. My mother taught school in Boise for several years. And then they got ambitious and decided they wanted to homestead. And my grandmother had 150 acres, I think it was. My mother filed on hers, and my uncle filed on his. There was regular little compound up there of the Beseckers in the Scott Valley above Cascade. She had taught school in Boise, when she lived in Boise and she had taught in New York, I might mention. She had gone to school, to college in New York and had taught there before she came ... before they decided to come west. MARLENE: She was quite a professional lady for that time, wasn't she? MARTHA: Yes, very much so. She and my grandmother both were, well they really didn't get into the struggle, but they were very, very interested in women's rights. They, both of them, cherished the women's right to vote when they finally got it. And, of course, Idaho was early; the women of Idaho got the right to vote early.... sometimes I wonder if that is why they came here. MARLENE: Well, who knows? I'm sure one of the reasons that women got the right to vote early here, was that they were so strong and independent... Oh, that is interesting. So, when she came to McCall, she was the Superintendent of Schools for Boise County. MARTHA: They came afterwards probably, my mother was elected Superintendent of Schools... she did teach in Scott Valley and several other places before she was elected Superintendent of Schools. And my father (James Darkwood) was elected the Assessor. That is how they met in Idaho City. And they came to McCall in about 1914. That was the end of their terms. And they did not want to run again. And they bought the hardware store (Lakeport Hardware Company) at that time. MARLENE: It had already been established by someone else, and he bought it? MARTHA: Yes, he bought it from someone else. MARLENE: Now, he had taught also hadn't he? MARTHA: Yes, he had homesteaded... he was from Indiana, and he was in Oregon for awhile. I never found out quite when he came up here. I forgot to ask these things, at the time, when I could find out. But he homesteaded on the west side of the valley. He taught school at several schools in the valley. MARLENE: Were those one room schools or were they larger schools? MARTHA: They were several (rooms)1, one of them was the Boydston's, the Boydston School; John Boydston's father went to school to my father. They were regular country schools. MARLENE: When your mother was teaching in Crawford, did she board with a family or live by herself? MARTHA: I don't really know that. MARLENE: Did she have to take care of the school? MARTHA: Oh, I assume so, they always had to. They had to light the fires and keep everything just so. MARLENE: So, when they lived in McCall, did they live in the same house .... did the), build the house on First Street where you currently live? MARTHA: When they first came to McCall, and up until I was about four years old, we lived in a little apartment back of the hardware store. MARLENE: And the hardware store was located where? MARTHA: Just east, a little farther than east of Legacy Park. But the other side (of the park) the old Hotel McCall was there. I remember that, because I got lost there one time. And right across from Legacy Park was the old mill. MARLENE: So you were really right down town? MARTHA: Right down town. 2 MARLENE: And when you were four, where did you move? MARTHA: Then, my father had built the house, had had the house built, I should say, on First Street. And when I was four, I moved over there. (715 North First Street) MARLENE: And you have been there all of these years. MARTHA: All of these years. MARLENE: Did he teach after he had the hardware store? MARTHA: No. He concentrated on the hardware store. MARLENE: Eventually, he sold that to Joe Kasper, didn't he? MARTHA: Yes. MARLENE: That is interesting. Now what education had he had that enabled him to teach? MARTHA: Well, he had a high school education. At that time, that was quite a lot. Not that many had high school educations as have them now. MARLENE: That is right. I remember reading my grandfather's journals that he wrote in high school. They contained so much classical history, botany and economics. MARTHA: Oh, yes. I have his high school diploma, and, not the diploma, but the graduation program, and everyone had given a little paper. It was a small high school and everyone had given a paper that was listed on the program. And then he went down two or three days to an institute in Boise, and he could get his teacher's certificate. MARLELNE: So that he could teach in this state, because he had come from Indiana? MARTHA: He had come from Indiana. MARLENE: That must have been a long journey by train. MARTHA: I guess he came by train, I don't remember that. He never said. He went to Oregon first for awhile, and then he came over. I don't know how he found this place. He was here before mother. MARLENE: Was he going back and forth to Idaho City? MARTHA: No, he stayed over there. But he had homesteaded on the west side of the valley. 3 MARLENE: Now, what did he do on the homestead? Did he raise grain and wheat? MARTHA: I don't know, because he had sold it long before I was old enough to know about it. MARLENE: Alright, but he had proved up on that homestead. (Martha nods.) What about your own early schooling in McCall? What do you recall? MARTHA: Oh, I remember my first day of school. And, in my mother's training somewhere, she had been taught that, really, children should start with their teachers and not try to read ahead of time, and she would stop my grandmother from pointing out letters to me in the newspaper. MARLENE: Oh, no! MARTHA: Yes, my first day of school, Mrs. Williams was my teacher, and I adored her. I was so tickled to be going to school, and I think I walked there all by my self. No one came there and enrolled me. MARLENE: No crying? MARTHA: No crying. No anything. I was tickled to death to be there. But I came home, very indignant. No one had started to teach me to read! Because I loved my books! MARLENE: Now, was this kindergarten or first grade? MARTHA: No, there was no kindergarten, just first grade. MARLENE: And you were ready to learn! MARTHA: I was ready to learn to read. I was never ready for math! MARLENE: How many children were there in your classes in those days? MARTHA: I think they had about 30 or 40, I'm not sure. But they did have two grades in each classroom when I started. MARLENE: Now, did the older children help the younger children? MARTHA: Not especially. Not as they did in the rural schools, where there were so many. I don't remember any older children helping, because they were just a grade ahead. 2 MARLENE: So they had their assignments and you had yours. When you were a teacher here in McCall, did you have more than one grade in a classroom? MARTHA: Yes, I did. The first year, when I started teaching, I had two grades and had over forty children. And I was new at this. And I walked out of that school in the spring, and said that I would never teach again. MARLENE: Because of the difficulty of their learning with so many children and the discipline needed? MARTHA: It just was too much for me. MARLENE: That was a large number of children. MARTHA: And then, several years later, there was a teacher shortage, and I got talked into it. And then I taught fifteen more years. MARLENE: There was something about those years away! MARTHA: Yes, I jumped with joy! That first year was a nightmare. MARLENE: What grades did you teach? MARTHA: I taught the fifth and sixth and then when I went back to teach, I had just the sixth. MARLENE: Were most of these children who had grown up in McCall or were there children whose parents were transient? MARTHA: Most of them had lived in McCall, but some of them would come and go, depending on the lumbering, you know, and the jobs. I can't remember how many of them moved, but many of them had not been raised here. MARLENE: So they were having to learn about this school's system as well as learning to behave? MARTHA: Yes. MARLENE: Do you remember traveling to Boise as a child? How did you go there? MARTHA: Yes, that was one of the highlights of my life! My family had an old Chalmers car, and, when I was younger, we would go in that. Sometimes we would go on the train. We would go to the depot here, and go on the train. I can remember that it was so exciting to go to Boise. It was just so exciting. We would drive down the canyon. And when we would get to the top of the hill, we �1 could see what was the Boise Valley then and is the Treasure Valley now. I never will forget those first looks down. MARLENE: And there were trolleys then, weren't there? MARTHA: Yes, I don't think we rode them much. But I remember the trolleys. I don't remember how old I was; I don't think I was in school yet, but my mother was having some dental work done and she was in the dentist's office for long hours. I was sitting outside, but there was a window where I could see the trolley going by. I could see the yellow flashing light when it would hit certain wires, and that amused me for a long time. I don't really remember riding one. MARLENE: Were there horses used in those days? MARTHA: I don't think so, people were either taking the train or driving. But by our hardware store, there was a hitching post for horses and it was used. But in McCall, we put away our car for the winter. MARLENE: In the winter, what did you use for transportation? MARTHA: Well, as I said, if we were going away, we took the train. In McCall, we walked. And the country people would come in with their horses. And they did keep the roads, I can't remember when I was smaller, but they would have horses with Vs to keep them open. MARLENE: Did they plow with the horses and plows? MARTHA: Yes, with the Vs you know. They would drag them along (to clear the snow). MARLENE: So the children walked to school in winter? MARTHA: Oh, yes, no school buses. MARLENE: Where was the school located the? MARTHA: The school was located on top of, how can I tell you, very close now to the little shopping center, just across the old railroad track. (It was) right across from the depot. MARLENE: Yes. Is that where May Hardware is now? Up on that hill? (This hill is just south of the SE corner of Third and Park.) MARTHA: Yes, up on the hill. It was quite a bit higher than it is now. And it was built in 1924 the year I started first grade. I was in the first class in the first grade. We broke it in. The class starting in 1924 broke it in. It was upstairs with a basement. When I got to high school, it was in the basement. (They) just had the grade school upstairs. It was not until I was in high school a little later that they started sending children to Donnelly. It was a little bigger school than ours, not countwise, but could handle more. It was larger building, and built later. MARLENE: So, all of the school in McCall was in that one building? MARTHA: Yes, until we graduated from high school, we stayed in the same building all the way through high school. MARLENE: Was there a bell? MARTHA: Yes, there was a bell. MARLENE: Who were some of the favorite teachers that you remember? MARTHA: Oh, I liked all of them. My cousin taught me one year, I think. And Grace McRae taught me three years, because I think she taught the third and fourth grade. She taught the fourth grade when I was in it, and then she moved to the fifth and sixth grade. MARLENE: And just kept teaching you? MARTHA: And just kept teaching. And I had a man teacher for the first time in the seventh and eighth grades. It was seventh and eighth grades then, no middle school. I can't think of his name; it will come to me. And he was so patient, and we had such lovely discussions, like the chances of space flight. He was real good at that, and we had great discussions. He would teach something, and that would lead to discussions. MARLENE: He encouraged your imaginations. MARTHA: Oh, yes! MARLENE: Now, what did you do at recess? MARTHA: I used to try to stay inside, but we would go out and play on the playground. MARLENE: Did you have sports to play? MARTHA: Not until seventh and eighth grades; it was then that they bought the old building that burned a while back, the old dance hall it was. It was where the old Shaver's was. (The block bound by Second, Lake, First and Lenora) They bought that, and we would have basketball. We practiced basketball, and played basketball in that building. The school had bought it for us to use as a gym. 7 MARLENE: It had a good hardwood floor that you could play on. MARTHA: I did try to play basketball. I practiced regularly, but never was in a game. (I was) just too slow. MARLENE: You are a tiny lady, too! MARTHA: Yes! (The Dr. decided that I was too `delicate' for athletics, but I wanted to play.) MARLENE: Did they have dances still in that building? MARTHA: Yes, they had dances there, and in our high school years all of the dances were there. (There was ) one in the spring, probably, and one in the fall. (There were) two during the year, or something like that. We had our high school dances there, but we welcomed the public. There were not very many of us. My graduating class in high school was only fourteen. MARLENE: And, how many were there when you started first grade? MARTHA: The room seemed full to me; I don't know. I don't remember, but I wasn't trying to. MARLENE: Well, I remember your saying that you worked for the library when you were a high school student. Can you tell me where the library was? MARTHA: It was a little smaller than this room. MARLENE: This is the conference room in the McCall Public Library. MARTHA: It was in the city hall at that time, which is the building that is now in Roseberry. MARLENE: Was that at the top of Second Street and Park? MARTHA: Yes, and ours was a small room in back. The large room in back was the Police department; in front was the City Hall. When I came, the books were piled everywhere. Pretty high. The librarian said she wouldn't take any more donations. (She) didn't have any room. But I took every book anybody offered me. When I first went down, they needed somebody to come and check out books for a couple of hours. MARLENE: In the afternoons, after school? MARTHA: Yes, although I was excused from Study Hall or something to go down for a couple of afternoons a week and check out the books. There was no card catalogue. There was nothing. MARLENE: How were the books arranged? MARTHA: They were arranged in the usual fashion. MARLENE: By subject and alphabetically within that? MARTHA: By subject and alphabetically. And then I would check out books. And I enjoyed myself very much, And, I got fifty cents for every time I went down and checked out books. This was depression times, remember. I made a lot of money. MARLENE: You must have been one of the wealthiest high school students! MARTHA: And, I didn't know where my fifty cents was coming from. I assumed that it was from the library board or from something. I found out later, that a little group of women from, a group of club women, were providing the money. They used to cover other library expenses, too. MARLENE: So, they had really supported the library. MARTHA: Yes. MARLENE: So, as early as you can remember as a child, there was some kind of library here? MARTHA: No. MARLENE: When did the library begin? MARTHA: When I was in about the fourth or fifth grade. I remember being so hungry for books. And, my parents would (give me books). For Christmas I would get books. There were always books around, but not always my sized books. And the school had no library when I was going to school. And there were three or four books in our own (class) rooms. But no school library. But there were some books in the rooms and they were read thoroughly. And I was in sixth grade or maybe fourth, when the (Payette Lakes) Progressive Club started the library. They started the library. At first it was in an abandoned restroom, down by the service station.... the one close to the lake. MARLENE: Oh, so they had just donated this space? MARTHA: I think they had changed their restrooms around, put them inside or something. It was an old women's restroom, And the books were probably all E donated. I don't know, I was too young to know all of this. I remember going in there and being so happy. And then later, I have this memory but can't find anyone else who remembers it. I remember the building that preceded this library. And I think they put the library in there for awhile. I seem to remember going there to get books for awhile in the same location. But I can't seem to find an old timer who has a similar recollection. But I remember coming up here, and then they moved it down to the City Hall. And the City did take over and started to support them then. MARLENE: And, was there a full -time librarian at that time? MARTHA: Not what you would call a full -time librarian, but someone who did take care of the books. When I started teaching school for the fifteen years, I was on the library board a good part of that time. And I remember the library board picked out the books. I know the librarian wasn't doing it. And we were doing it. MARLENE: Did you order them from publishers as they do today? MARTHA: We ordered them from publishers, and I think at that time and I am not positive about this, I think the Progressive Club was paying for them. The City might have been paying for the books, I'm not sure. I'm not sure which it was. But we were ordering books. MARLENE: Were there a lot of patrons of the library? MARTHA: I don't know. I know there were a lot of people reading. When I was checking out books, there were a lot. I can't remember numbers or how they would stack up. And I can't really remember the numbers during the time I was on the library board. MARLENE: What size of area was served by the library? Donnelly and Yellow Pine? MARTHA: I don't remember that either. I don't think anyone would have been turned away, when I was going down after school. I can't imagine people being turned away. But people weren't driving in from Yellow Pine, as they do now. Oh, some people went in the summer time, but otherwise it was too difficult. It was a mining town and an old town. The traffic was not like it is now. MARLENE: And in the winter, the travel would have been by dog sled if any. MARTHA: Yes, it would have been by dog sled. MARLENE: That must have been wonderful for the town to have a library. So you have watched this library grow from almost nothing to what it is today. MARTHA: Yes, that's true. 10 Tape 1, Side 2 MARLENE: Growing to this fairly large library with lots of books, we are so pleased to have it. MARTHA: Yes, it is a large library. MARLENE: Did the schools have the children come into the library like they do now? MARTHA: Not earlier, of course. I don't think they came into the old library. MARLENE: And they gradually developed their own school libraries? MARTHA: Yes, they gradually developed their own school libraries. When they built the new school house they did begin to have their own. And they had done that some before. There was a stretch when I had nothing to do with the schools. I don't know what was happening there. MARLENE: Now, when you were a teacher, did you teach in that same building (where you had been a student ?) MARTHA: Yes, my first three or four years of teaching, I was in that same building. MARLENE: When they built the new school, did you teach there? MARTHA: I think I taught the biggest part of the time in the new building. They had quite a battle at the time to get the new building built. And when I was first teaching this battle was raging. MARLENE: So you remember that well. MARTHA: Yes. MARLENE: So the school that was up on the hill, what happened to that building? MARTHA: I don't know. They tore it down or something. They began to use that area for other things. MARLENE: Was a doctor's office up on that hill, a dentist's office? MARTHA: A doctor's office. MARLENE: And then they carved that hill away to make the parking lot ? 11 MARTHA: They carved away quite a lot. One of the things that amused me when I was teaching was that there wasn't a large playground there, a little bit of a playground, and then the snow would melt, of course, back from the building first. Sometimes when I was teaching at recess, the boys and sometimes the girls would be out there on the snow banks playing baseball. All the ones that weren't batting were on the snow banks. MARLENE: Pretty slippery running. Did a lot of the children ski to school? MARTHA: I don't think many did. They just walked. Not at least in my earlier experience. By the time I was first teaching, I think they were using a few school buses. I'm not sure, but I believe so. MARLENE: So, do you remember skiing as a child? MARTHA: Yes, I thought it was my duty, I guess. My father, having a hardware store., brought home a pair of skis for me. And, of course, everybody was ski -crazy then, as usual. Not as much as now, maybe, but McCall was having the Winter Carnivals when I started to school. (They started in 1924. They started having Winter Carnivals, and, of course, it died down during the Depression. And then it began to get back to the old ways. I would go out and putter around on them. I liked it but never got very far. One thing was that my skis didn't fit me, (my father) didn't care. My daughter has to have a pair of skis! Maybe when I was in the seventh or eighth grade, I got so that I could go down a hill. There's a hill right beside our place, and I could go down that hill beautifully. And then I would sit down on the back of my skis. And I did this until I had an abcess. But I would put on my skis again and pad around on them until I broke one. But I was never going to be, was never going to be fighting (racing) anybody else on the ski hill. MARLENE: Now, was the Little Ski Hill open at that time? MARTHA: That developed about 1936. That was a little bit later. MARLENE: Was the jump out at Blackwell's hill built at that time? MARTHA: Yes, they used that jump for the Winter Carnivals that they had at that time. MARLENE: Did they have the parade in town like they do now? MARTHA: I don't remember any. I didn't go, if there were any. MARLENE: Speaking about the Blackwells (place), there was a race track out there wasn't there .... near the south end of Ponderosa Park? Do you remember that? 12 MARTHA: I remember that very well. I remember my father and mother and I going to something out there. We always called it the race track. MARLENE: Did you watch horse races there? MARTHA: I don't think we ever did. But they did have them. MARLENE: But there were other activities on that same course? MARTHA: Yes, many things. MARLENE: Ponderosa Park, as a park, wasn't developed yet, was it? MARTHA: No. MARLENE: It was just woods. MARTHA: It was State land, but it wasn't developed as it is now. MARLENE: Did people hike out there? Or use it for camping? MARTHA: I don't know, my parents and I weren't much for camping. I don't really know. But, Boise people and other people came up and went out there. MARLENE: Another thing that I remember hearing about winter activities, was about the slide that went from the Lakeport Hotel out onto the lake ice .... a toboggan slide? (It went) out across Lake Street? Do you remember about that? MARTHA: No, I don't... MARLENE: I had heard that Warren Cook had built that. MARTHA: He probably did! MARLENE: And that Muggs (Brown) Davies loved to take a toboggan down it. MARTHA: I don't remember it. MARLENE: It sounds like there was quite a bit of activity in McCall, with the mill here and all the coming and going of commerce and tourism. MARTHA: Oh, yes, tourism wasn't like it is now, but it was always .... I remember, in the early days, in the hardware store, there were always summer people in. And those houses on the west side of the lake, those large houses .... a few of those were built. I think they started in 1918 -1919. 13 MARLENE: With the Hays family developing that property on the west side of the lake? lul:1AI:GIMIM MARLENE: That must have been quite a journey coming up from Boise for vacations in the summer? MARTHA: Yes. Actually, we used to figure almost a day to go to Boise. We would drive our car down there. And then someone in Emmett got a good idea.... the train was all day. I can tell you about a train ride, if you want me to. MARLENE: Yes. MARTHA: I'll finish this first. The train took all day. It was even slower than driving a car. They had a bus that would meet the train at Emmett and would take you into Boise much more quickly. We would use that, I remember using that quite a lot. But I got the idea, now, of course, this was later on, but I don't think they were any faster. And they still had a passenger car on the train. I was coming back from going to business school, and got the idea that I would just ... I had a lot of clothes and things to bring home ... so I had the idea to take the train home. I got a bus, or something, or maybe my folks took me down. I had cousins down there. I got on this train to McCall. I think I was on the train at 8:00 in the morning. Well, I'll tell you, the train didn't go very fast. And then we stopped at Emmett first. We stopped and ate in Emmett. We stopped and ate and they loaded sheep. Then we stopped somewhere and unloaded the sheep. And then the train crew stopped and ate. No one asked me to go out and eat. The train crew stopped and ate at another little place in the canyon somewhere. It was almost 9:00 at night before we even got to Cascade. And the train crew stopped and ate again! I thought they surely could wait until we got to McCall. Oh, it was a long, long day's ride. And I don't think it was any better in the good old days. I've even heard of a train crew stopping and fishing along the way. (laughter) MARLENE: Do you remember cattle and sheep being driven up into the valley? MARTHA: Oh, yes. We would be on the roads and meet them quite often. We were often stopped for cattle and sheep. MARLENE: We were wondering about the Sheep Bridge over near River's Crossing, owned by Bob Hunt, crossing to what will eventually be a park on the east side. Do you remember that being used for sheep? MARTHA: No, I don't really. But, I just wasn't paying attention to sheep. MARLENE: It was a ways from the middle of town, too. Did you have horses? Did your family have horses? 14 MARTHA: Not, really. Bob and I had horses for awhile. He was one to go hunting. My husband came up here and decided that he wanted to be the big hunter. MARLENE: He was from Texas, wasn't he? MARTHA: He was from Texas, and we kept a few then. My father had a few out on the ranch. He had about 300 acres that he sold in Depression times .... out in the country. We didn't live on it, but he rented it to people. And, I know he had some out there. MARLENE: Did you ride them occasionally for a day trip, with a lunch? (Nods, yes.) Was your husband a good hunter? Did he bring back... MARTHA: Brought back a couple of things, yes, he brought back a deer .... and then he decided that he didn't really like to hunt. He really didn't enjoy it. He didn't enjoy killing them. He had thought, at first, that he would, I guess, because he had never done it. MARLENE: It must have sounded like a grand adventure of some kind. MARTHA: Yes, then he decided it wasn't. He sold the horses and went out of the hunting business. MARLENE: Did he like to fish? MARTHA: Yes, he liked to fish. He didn't do it a lot, but he liked it. MARLENE: In those years, there was good salmon fishing, wasn't there? MARTHA: Yes, but he never caught any salmon. He liked trout. MARLENE: Did you use the lake? Boating or canoeing? MARTHA: Not particularly, once in awhile we would rent a boat. My parents might or Bob and I might. But, I swam. I went in the lake when I was quite small. In fact, the Red Cross instructors came to the lake at that time. I remember that I had learned to swim before then. Not properly, but I was swimming. I remember going to my first Red Cross classes, and it was so cold. They did it in the early part of the year. We learned to do the other things and to swim. My cousin from Boise used to come up for about three weeks of the year, and we would turn a faucet on somewhere in the house and tell our folks, you know its getting warm ... the water's pretty warm. We think we can get into the lake now. And then, in the last years, the last two or three summers of my husband's life, he had leukemia .... he was from Texas and didn't like the lake particularly. He just stuck 15 one toe in and said that's too cold. He was a very good swimmer in anything that was warm water. Some of the most pleasant times of those last two years were times we went down to the lake. He liked to lie on the beach and watch the boats, and I would go swimming, read my book and then go swimming again. MARLENE: You could enjoy the beach and the water ... Did you go to places like Zimm's and Bergdorf where there was warm water? MARTHA: Oh, yes .... not Bergdorf so much, but we went to Zimm's a great deal. MARLENE: Were there other hot springs nearby, like Gold Fork, that were developed? MARTHA: I don't remember Gold Fork, mostly Zimm's. But there are other hot springs through here .... I guess Gold Fork has been built into something of a hot springs, hasn't it? I haven't been there. But, we mostly went to Zimm's. There was one towards Council, too. I don't remember the name of it. But we would go to it occasionally. Or the school would go, we went occasionally to the hot springs in the last days of school. MARLENE: How nice! Were there other field trips that you took with the children? MARTHA: This wasn't a field trip with the children. This was when I was in high school, and we would have a sneak day or something. We would usually go to the hot springs. MARLENE: Did you have an annual in your high school? With all of the pictures? MARTHA: No. There were class pictures... those we had. MARLENE: I'm sure there were plenty of activities here! Did your husband like to take driving trips? MARTHA: Yes, he just liked driving, period. Just to go driving. I miss it, because we were always driving somewhere. MARLENE: You must have enjoyed that ... you told me that he had come to McCall on the bus, and just liked the way it looked .... and so I'm sure he enjoyed driving through this beautiful country. MARTHA: Yes, he loved McCall .... he didn't want to go back to Texas. MARLENE: But did you go back to visit? MARTHA: Yes, we did go to visit, but were always glad to come back to the Rockies. don't know how many stories you want, but I can tell you a story about Bob and the heat. (Nod, yes.) Ever since I knew him, (she had met him when he came; to 16 board in their house when he first came to McCall) he had said, you know Martha you could never stand the heat in Texas. Never. And he didn't like the heat; he was always warm here. Didn't matter how cold it was, Bob was warm. This one year, we visited his folks and then decided to go down to Galveston. I was working some place or other, and had a little time before I needed to be back. So we decided to go to Galveston. It was about 70 -75 degrees, and we had air conditioning in the motel room. I could go swimming. I was going into the ocean every day. Then, the old Texan came in, pulling out his shirt collar and saying, Martha, I can stand the heat. Let's go to the west coast. I've been there in June a couple of times and it was uncomfortable. But this was November, and it was too much for Bob. (laughter) MARLENE: I was wondering about the activities among the women here in McCall. There were just a few of you who worked teaching and nursing and things like that, but most of the women were at home with their children. What kinds of activities were there? MARTHA: For myself, and for my mother, there was always the church. The Congregational church, which is the older church here, had two women's groups: The Missionary Society and the Ladies Aid. And, I know, my mother participated in both. And then the Progressive Club started in 1932. And there were card parties. I remember going to card parties.... bridge. I like to play bridge. And other churches had other organizations. The theater, the movie theater, was very well attended, well patronized. MARLENE: Where was the movie theater? MARTHA: Well, there have been several of them. The first movie theater was on the main street going west (Lake Street) about where the new skating rink is. An elderly man and his wife had it. And as long as they lived, that was used. In the late 1930s and early 1940s there was a theater on the main street coming into town and going to the lake (Third Street) close to the corner of Third and Lake. Not on the corner, but it was just two or three doors up. That was really quite a nice theater for its time. MARLENE: Was there a stage as well as the screen? MARTHA: There was a stage, not much of one, but a little bit of a stage. One of my memories of teaching school is that when we would have a school program, we would use their stage. (Once) my boys were supposed to be popcorn or something, they had these costumes. The mothers had to work terribly hard on these costumes, especially one. These were tied tightly under the knees, and the boys didn't like them. We rushed them down to the theater, and then when they came on stage, every one of them had broken the threads under the knees and their little costumes were hanging down to their ankles. (laughter) It 17 was not a very large stage, and we had to dress them at school and bring them down. MARLENE: Was that used for Christmas programs, as well? MARTHA: Not so much, because it was just too difficult to get them there. MARLENE: Was there a stage at school? MARTHA: Nothing until we got to the new building. It seems we had something then. MARLENE: There always seem to be programs at the schools. (nods, yes) So what kinds of changes have you noticed mostly in McCall? MARTHA: All of the building, because it is building up. MARLENE: But we still don't have a movie theater. (laughter) MARTHA: No. We still don't. And then a lot of people stay here in the winter. And the skiing, more people are coming in the winter. We didn't have so much of that, just maybe for the Winter Carnivals. And the available things, although we are still missing things, as you say the movie theater. But, we now have a good library for this size of town. And the availability of goods in the stores is more than we used to have. And we have these little stores like Mountain Monkey Business, little boutique sorts of stores. And people come from other places to buy beautiful things here. And there is just more traffic in and out. It was so difficult to get here, took so long to get here before the better roads and airplanes and things like that. MARLENE: You were here (to see) the development of the airport. MARTHA: Yes, but I didn't pay much attention to it. I wasn't too interested in it. But, of course, we didn't have that in the first years. But, I do miss the mill. The mill and logging for the mill, Browns, actually Brown's whole establishment. It was always a source of jobs for people. And now it is different, you don't have that:. But there will always be jobs coming and going, I guess. MARLENE: It formed the center of town, didn't it? MARTHA: (Yes. It was) right there on the lake. MARLENE: So many people were involved in it. MARTHA: It was almost the town. MARLENE: With all the logging in the mountains, and trucks coming and going.... 18 MARTHA: Oh, yes, the town is quite different, is changing. The people we have living here regularly now are changing. The old ones, who are mostly gone, wouldn't change, but the people now are quite a bit different. MARLENE: Another thing that has helped to keep it somewhat the same has been the Forest Service headquarters and agency presence here and the families. Tape 2, Side 1: MARTHA: Yes, you were asking earlier about sports in the schools, there was very little sport, especially, when I went to school. I don't remember anything much until the seventh or eighth grades, but we did have that gym, that old dance hall that was the gym. And we just had basketball, there was no football all the way through high school. There might have been some later when I was teaching school, it might have been started then. Basketball was it. From seventh and eighth grade on through high school, basketball was it. Boys and girls. There was a time when they said girls couldn't play anymore; they said it was too hard for girls. We were to delicate. But when I was in high school, we could play basketball. And there were two or three school dances, sometimes it was a fund raiser and then, of course, there was the spring formal. This was held in the same building as the other dances. We had no dances until we had that gym. And they were usually open to the public. They were nice dances. We didn't have to worry about a date, we just went. We knew everyone. MARLENE: Did you have school plays? Did you use that dance hall for the plays? MARTHA: We did have high school plays, I remember being in some of them. We may have used the movie theater stage. We had a number of them when I was in high school. I think Page was the name of the family that had that theater we used. He had a bigger place for us to use. MARLENE: After school, you have said the children just went home and played in their neighborhoods and help their parents probably. MARTHA: Now in summers and after school, the children play on the playgrounds. We didn't have much on the playgrounds. We didn't have that much equipment. MARLENE: Did you play games more? MARTHA: (nods, yes) I don't remember too much about that; I think the children pretty much made up their own games. MARLENE: Did your family take vacations? 19 MARTHA: Not very often, of course there were the wonderful trips to Boise. I remember them when I was smaller. And we did go .... I remember when I was in the eighth grade, we went to Nevada to visit one of mother's relatives. MARLENE: How did you go? MARTHA: By car. That was the first big trip, and then we went on another trip where we traveled by car and went to Los Angeles to see my mother's sister, who ended up there. She started out in Idaho, about the time or later than my mother came, and during the Depression, she and her husband moved on to Los Angeles. Those were the big trips. When I remember my childhood, it was mainly going to Boise. We took little drives. MARLENE: The trip to California must have been interesting, with the long desert crossing in those cars. MARTHA: I don't remember a lot of that. I remember the nice swing that my cousins had in the back. And going to that island.... Catalina, that trip to Catalina was, oh ... that I remember. MARLENE: It would have been different for you to be on the ocean for several hours and then to go around the island. MARTHA: It was wonderful. MARLENE: It is still beautiful, but I think that at that time it was even more beautiful. Southern California itself was more beautiful in those years. I've seen many pictures from my family, and the orange groves were really lovely and a lot of them. MARTHA: I remember looking from the bus as we were coming from Catalina, and walking home I remember, my aunt showed me a white blossom on a tree. The tree was blooming and there was this white flower. MARLENE: It could have been the orange groves, or lemon, but probably orange. But there are so many flowers there. But this is a beautiful place, too. Did your mother like to garden? I know that you do. MARTHA: Yes, we gardened a lot. MARLENE: Did you raise vegetables? MARTHA: Yes, and strawberries, she raised a lot of strawberries. During the Depression, you know the Depression years were so difficult. We sold the hardware store at the beginning of the Depression. And we survived a lot on the garden in the summer. And she raised strawberries and sold them. go] MARLENE: Did she make jams and jellies, as well? MARTHA: Yes. MARLENE: Did you go to Riggins or Fruitland for other fruit? MARTHA: Not to Riggins, but we did go to Fruitland and to the Mesa orchards. Those orchards were really wonderful then. We nearly always went to Mesa for fruit. MARLENE: I have read about those, they were large weren't they? MARTHA: They were large and wonderful, just wonderful, and we used to go there for fruit. MARLENE: Did the fruit come in those large wooden boxes? MARTHA: Not so much other fruit, just apples. And we used to have, at that time, none of the restrictions that we have now. So we used to have peddlers bringing fruit to the door. They would come up from Boise Valley, bringing fruit up to sell it here. MARLENE: Did they bring enough for the women to make jams. (nods, yes.) Were there other kinds of peddlers bringing things to the door? MARTHA: No, only those peddlers that came in the summer. That is all I have a memory of. And, of course, there were the huckleberries. MARLENE: Yes, did you go huckleberry picking? MARTHA: Yes. MARLENE: Did you have your favorite spots? MARTHA: Yes. Mother would take me when I was really quite small. I picked. I think that I have something in one of mother's diaries that I ran across one day, she had canned thirty pints or something of huckleberries. They were easier to find then, not so many people. MARLENE: You must have had some good rainy years, too. There is nothing as good as huckleberries! That intense flavor. Did she raise vegetables, too? MARTHA: (nods, yes about huckleberries) Yes, she raised lettuces, carrots, potatoes, let's see, beets. We couldn't, the climate has changed a little or we just do things differently, there were lots of tender vegetables that we couldn't grow. And it is 21 still hard for the most tender ones (to be grown). I think they raise a greater variety now than they did then. MARLENE: It is such a short growing season, unless you start them in the house or in cold frames. But you had bakeries? (nods, yes) The hardware store, and there must have been a general store? MARTHA: Yes, what was Shavers had several owners, and it was about where, well there was a hotel on one side. In that block ... well the theater was on that corner. And then there was a general store there for many years. Shavers finally bought it and then moved out to where the mall at the south end of town is now. MARLENE: So you were able to get all of your staples? (Nods, yes) And fabrics and notions? MARTHA: We did have a drug store and you could get some things there. We did not have much. You quite often had to go shopping in Boise, especially in the dry goods department. But, we had all of our staples. We had the bakery, and we had the staples things that you could buy. MARLENE: Did your mother buy bread? She didn't have a lot of time to bake, did she? MARTHA: No, she bought bread. It was very fine bread. MARLENE: Was there a flour mill here then? MARTHA: There had been, but I don't remember any in my childhood. History mentions some flour mills, but we just bought flour and breads. And, of course, you could always order. We had a great variety of catalogs then. Things were different that they are now, but you could always order clothing and things like that. There wasn't a lot of clothing until lately, as we have said with all of these boutiques. MARLENE: These things were sent by mail? The Post Office was in there near Lake and Third? MARTHA: (nods, yes.) The first Post Office was in the area where the theater was. (It was in the block) where the ice rink is now. That was my first memory of (where) the Post Office (was). Then later, they moved down to the Third Street location. MARLENE: Was Mrs. Cook the Postmistress when you were young? MARTHA: Yes, I remember, she was a good friend of my mother's. MARLENE: Was she? She sounds like a lovely woman. I came across some of her writings and little poems one day. I would like to have known her. 22 MARTHA: She was a runner -up in naming Sharlie; I have some things on her in the library. MARLENE: What years were those? MARTHA: I can't remember now. I can look it up for you. I have a profile on her in the history file. MARLENE: Was that a tradition for a long time? Were there tall tales about it? MARTHA: No, there were not tall tales about it. All at once, someone saw Sharlie. And then, people kept seeing him. And I don't know, there must have been something. They think it might have been a land locked big fish, or something like that. MARLENE: So do you remember the Leda? The boat that was on the lake? MARTHA: No. That was before (my time). And they danced on it. MARLENE: Do you remember the Payette Lake Inn? MARTHA: Oh, yes! Once again, my mother was working at the hardware store and was friends with the family that was managing it. The Cunninghams were managing it. And I was in it shortly after it was built. Mother went over to see it, and the Cunninghams showed us through it. I was so taken with those beautiful fireplaces. (They were made of) stones of some kind. I just remember the beautiful open fires and the fireplaces. I think there was more than one. That was the main thing I remember about visiting as a child. And then when they filmed the movie up here, the Northwest Passage, they had a lot of the people staying there. I remember my husband and I going out to dinner there. They were serving dinners at that time at the Inn, and I remember seeing some of the movie stars there who were in the filming Northwest P. MARLENE: I was reading the other day, that the father of someone who worked for the studio and knew the Director had grown up in this area and knew about McCall. He recommended McCall as a place to film this particular story. MARTHA: I hadn't heard that. MARLENE: I had wondered how they came here. That must have been a very exciting time. MARTHA: Oh, it was! MARLENE: Didn't members of the Nez Perce tribe come down to act as extras? MARTHA: Yes, they did. Oh, the town was buzzing about that (filming). 23 MARLENE: Did that take about a year to film? MARTHA: Oh, I don't think so. It was mostly done in that summer. They built sets and then destroyed them (when it was over). They cleaned up after themselves very well. It was fun. MARLENE: What other things can you think of when you were growing up? MARTHA: It was very different. Something I did until the eighth grade was to go to the hardware store. I loved the hardware store. When I was punished by my mother for anything, it was usually because I had gone down to the hardware store instead of staying home. I loved being in it, and I loved seeing the people. I just loved the hardware store. And, I don't know, we didn't have the recreation that we have now, so the excitement of having the radio .... of having the music over the air. When we first heard that it was so exciting. From the time when we didn't have radios to that, it was so exciting. And, my father was still in the hardware store at that time, and one time he took a radio out to one of the back country ranches. He took it by horseback and set it up for them on one of the back country ranches. MARLENE: Could they receive the signal all right? MARTHA: I guess they did, I don't remember any complaints when he came back. That opened the whole world after you have been living in a small town. MARLENE: You would have had the news quickly. MARTHA: Yes, much of the earlier programming was music, and they went into other things. So much of it was musical, but there was news. You can't believe, after you have only had the newspaper. MARLENE: Was there a newspaper here in town? MARTHA: Yes, my father was instrumental in getting it started. He didn't have anything to do with the newspaper, per se. He just helped to push it. Of course, we always took the Statesman. It was brought up by mail for awhile, and then was brought up on the train, the slow train. I don't know that we had it the very day, but we had it all the time. We always had it coming. There is something l remember about the train, too: my father would phone to Boise for Mother's Day, and he and I would have to meet the train on or close to Mother's Day, the train always came up on Sundays, and get the flowers that daddy had ordered for Mother's Day. We always ordered carnations, her favorite. I can remember going to the train with daddy, so excited. Going to get the flowers and put them into the car. It was later on, well after we had radio that things opened up, and now the town has gotten bigger. Better transportation and everything. But we are pretty closed in. 24 MARLENE: Did you have live musical groups? (nods, yes) Did you have a piano? MARTHA: Yes, I had piano lessons. MARLENE: Did the school have a piano? MARTHA: I think they did, I don't remember how soon before they got one. We had singing when I was going to school. She (the music teacher) came maybe once a week. It was a little bit. MARLENE: Did you have a school orchestra? MARTHA: In high school we did. I played the clarinet in high school. I enjoyed it. MARLENE: No marching band? MARTHA: No. But the dances would have live music for dancing. I don't know where they came from. There were musicians up here. There were musical people around. MARLENE: In your club meetings, did you have speakers come in? Lectures on different things? MARTHA: Not too much. MARLENE: Were there political groups? MARTHA: Well, yes, first we were the Village of McCall, then we were the City of McCall. There was always a Town Board of some kind. MARLENE: Did you father sit on that? MARTHA: No, although he was interested. Both he and mother were quite interested in politics. But, I think he was in the hardware store and wasn't too well. I think that is one of the reasons that we sold it. He really was not too well. But, when he was in the hardware store, he tried to stay out of those things. He wanted to please all of his customers as much as possible. So I don't think he ever got into those things. MARLENE: Was that the main hardware store for all of Long Valley? MARTHA: I don't think so; I think there was probably one in Cascade. They didn't travel back and forth that much. He served the ranchers south of McCall and in Donnelly. Of course, there wasn't anything in Donnelly much. But I think there was in Cascade. I remember one of my delights of my childhood was to drive 25 with my father when he went to.deliver things, and set up things sometimes at the places in the (Long) Valley. MARLENE: Did you know a lot of the ranchers and their children? MARTHA: Not really. They had their own schools. The Valley was covered.... with so many school houses. MARLENE: Oh, not just the one in Donnelly? MARTHA: No, that was just through the eighth grade. I have articles in the historical files. There may have been forty or so. The children had to be able to walk to their schools. Then buses started to come and took them by bus and changed them around. And took them to high school. When I was young, my mother had two or three of the girls from the country, who came for room and board so they could go to high school. They would come in and help mother in the winter, and, if the weather was decent, they could manage to get home for the weekend. But they would come in and stay with mother and help her. MARLENE: So you had several sisters? That was a way to get to know some of them. MARTHA: (laughter) That was when I was younger, and I don't think I was any joy to them. But later, when I was in high school, there were never any girls staying with mother. I don't know whether they were being bused. I don't think so, because our high school was so small. MARLENE: Now, did she continue to be Superintendent of Schools? MARTHA: No, she was just Superintendent of Schools for those years in Idaho City. When she was up here she wasn't. MARLENE: Did she teach here? MARTHA: No, she hadn't taught here, except to substitute. Tape 2, Side 2: MARTHA: I remember her boarding the girls, probably the seventh and eighth grade and high school. MARLENE: Did she have other boarders, too? MARTHA: She did, during the Depression, after we sold the hardware store. She did have boarders. The Depression, if you weren't old enough to live through it, was really very hard. Up here, it wasn't as hard as it was in the cities. You just knew 26 more people here, were closer to more people. And there were things that you could do, as mother did. And daddy did. I don't know, but it was nothing like you are told. Cities were colder as far as people were concerned. And having the mill here; it was working all the time during the Depression. Mother kept boarders, she kept this big garden in the summers, the strawberries and she sold some vegetables. And then my father on Saturdays would take vegetables around in the car to sell to some of the people on the lake. You see, some of those people, the Depression didn't really touch. Not the way it touched other people. And mother had boarders, and mother would buy one hundred chicks or two hundred chicks or so from one of the poultry houses, you couldn't do it any more, there are too many health rules; she would slaughter the chickens (that she had raised), dress them and sell them to people. And you see my father had a Dutch background, and he would make great big crocks of sauerkraut, 20 gallons of sauerkraut. It was wonderful. And those were things that kept us during the Depression. People needed things to eat and would buy from us. We had five acres there and had cows. That was even before the Depression, he couldn't live without his cow. MARLENE: Now, was this at the house on First Street that you could have cows? MARTHA: Yes, (we had) cows and chickens. MARLENE: Now it is right in the middle of town. MARTHA: Yes, but I've had people say, oh, you live way out there, when I've told them where I live. That was way out there for awhile. MARLENE: Then you were in pretty good order, with your own milk and butter and garden. Did your mother make cheese? MARTHA: No she didn't make cheese. We had our milk and butter, she sold that sometimes, too. And we had eggs to sell, sometimes she sold most of the chickens before (they layed). But these were the ways, but mostly I was in high school when it was worst. We were ahead of people in the cities that had no resources. When they lost their jobs, they were really out of luck. MARLENE: So, you had a pretty nice childhood, I think. MARTHA: Yes, I did, I had a very nice childhood. MARLENE: Now, when you had started school, did your mother enjoy teaching you other things at home? MARTHA: Pretty much. Of course, I had been doing these things, helping her all along, all this time. 27 MARLENE: She was probably a natural teacher, too. Was always teaching. MARTHA: Yes, she was always teaching. MARLENE: Children were needed to help with so many more things, in my own family there are stories of the children watching the cow and bringing up the cow for milking. MARTHA: I never had to do that. I wanted to. I wanted to learn to do everything. But daddy was so afraid that I was going to make one his precious cows go dry that he would never teach me. That was his job. MARLENE: Did your mother teach you needlework, and things like that? MARTHA: Not too much, I had an aunt that did that. Mother didn't like needlework; mother worked at the hardware store, and she worked at home. Later she liked to garden. And things like that. But she wasn't much into making small things. MARLENE: Well, she sounds like a delightful lady. MARTHA: She was a delightful lady. MARLENE: The women I have known most about are Grace McRae and Helga Cook, and she would have been right there and you would have been, too. MARTHA: Grace McRae was my most favorite teacher. I did love my First grade teacher, too. MARLENE: What made Grace McRae a favorite teacher? MARTHA: I don't know, she was so kind, and she was so lady -like. She was such a lady. And she ... I don't know, I was very fond of her. MARLENE: As I remember, she went back to school like you did, up to Lewiston to finish her education. The two of you share that. And she taught for so many years. MARTHA: She taught a long time. MARLENE: This has been so interesting... thank you so much for taking this time to share all of this. MARTHA: You are very welcome. 28 K Addenda conversation: Martha related that one Christmas her mother arranged for one of the millwrights at Brown's mill to make a miniature dog sled for Martha. Warren Brown gave her mother a puppy sired by his lead sled dog to pull the sled. This was a greatly loved present, although Martha had difficulty controlling him and was often thrown into the snow banks. The dog was named Brownie. He had one egregious adventure that almost cost him his life: he got into the chicken pen and killed a large number of her mother's chickens. Martha's father decided that he should be spared, because Martha was so fond of him. He never had a misadventure again, until the end. He roamed away and never returned. Several years ago, Martha decided that the dog sled should go to someone who would treasure it as she had. She sold it to Shirley Allen, Dr. Wayne Allen's wife, and an old friend. She collects antiques from the homesteads in the area and takes very good care of them. She does prize having this sled and its story. 29