HomeMy Public PortalAbout2020_tcmin0403SpecialD
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SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING April 3, 2020
Town Hall, Council Chamber, 25 West Market Street, 10:00 a.m. Mayor Burk
presiding.
Council Members Present: Ron Campbell, Thomas Dunn, Suzanne Fox, Vice Mayor
Marty Martinez (joined at 10:03 a.m.), Neil Steinberg, and Mayor Kelly Burk.
Council Members. Absent: Joshua Thiel.
Staff Present: Town Manager Kaj Dentler, Deputy Town Manager Keith Markel,
Interim Town Attorney Martin Crim (via WebEx), Deputy Town Attorney Christine
Newton, Director of Information Technology Jakub Jedrzejczak, Deputy Director of
Information Technology John Callahan, and Clerk of Council Eileen Boeing.
AGENDA ITEMS
1. CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL
3.
a. Assembled Members
Mayor Burk called to order the April 3, 2020, Special Meeting of the
Leesburg Town Council. The meeting was held in accordance with State Code §
· 2.2-3708.2(A)(3), for the purpose of addressing the Coronavirus emergency as
declared by the Governor of Virginia.
Mayor Burk stated that she, Council Member Fox, Council Member
Dunn and Council Member Steinberg were physically present, while Council
Member Campbell and Vice Mayor Martinez were present electronically due to
health and safety concerns associated with the COVID-19 pandemic. Council
Member Thiel was not in attendance.
RESOLUTION
a. Ensuring the Continuity of Government
MOTION 2020-096
On a motion by Council Member Steinberg, seconded by Council Member Fox, the
following was proposed:
ORDINANCE 2020-0-008
Ensuring the Continuity of Government
Interim Town Attorney Martin Crim explained the Ordinance to Council.
He said the purpose ofthis Ordinance is to ensure the continuity oflocal
government in the event that it becomes unsafe for in-person meetings and in
case of greater impacts on the operq.tions of the essential functions of
government, which include police, trash collection, and utilities. The Ordinance
provides for emergency interim successors for officers of the Town in case
somebody is unable to act. The Town Manager can appoint them. In the event
the Town Manager becomes ill and unable to act there is a line of succession that
can act on his behalf. Mr. Crim said Section C is for suspension of certain
policies and legal deadlines because of the concern that we need to act promptly.
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He provided for example, in C4 under procurement, the Town Manager is
empowered to proceed on an emergency basis with all kinds of procurement of
goods and services that may be necessary. In CS, the Town is basically
suspending all deadlines pursuant to the authority given to the Town Council by
the General Assembly through Virginia Code, Section §lS.2-1413. Mr. Crim
said the Town will try to meet the deadlines as much as possible, but that it may
not be possible to do so. Part D of the draft Ordinance provides for limitation on
person-to-person contact and rules for electronic communication meetings. Mr.
Crim discussed Section D-3(d)(3), regarding public hearings. The intent was to
make sure that this language was consistent with what is in CS in terms of
suspension of deadlines. Mr. Crim said that the Ordinance is in effect for a
period of six months from the date of adoption as Virginia Code, Section §lS.2-
1413 provides for six months from the date of the disaster. He aQ.ded that if it
becomes necessary to extend the Ordinance, then Council will have to have
another meeting, which could be an electronic meeting, to extend the Ordinance
ensuring the continuity of government.
Council Member Fox asked about SectionD-3, Electronic
Communications Meeting. She asked about all-electronic meeting and if it was
required to talk only about the emergency. Mr. Crim noted that he had
previously sent Council a confidential email regarding to the risks associated with
holding a fully-electronic communications meeting. For public benefit, he noted
Council is encouraged to limit the subject matter of any fully-electronic meeting
to items that actually address the emergency.
Council Member Campbell asked about the Loudoun County Board of
Supervisors Declaration of a Local State of Emergency and a subsequent
Resolution for Continuity of Government. Mr. Campbell asked Mr. Crim about
the difference between the County's Ordinance and the Town's Ordinance as the
County stated that they can discuss items without a physical quorum present that
are not specifically related to the emergency but are regular business. Mr.
Campbell noted that Mr. Crim's previous counsel to Council is not to extend that
far because of the associated potential liability risks. Mr. Campbell confirmed
with Mr. Crim that it is possible to have a fully electronic meeting but that the
agenda would need to be carefully crafted to avoid legal challenges in the future.
Mr. Crim confirmed that was correct. Mr. Crim added that as the circumstances
change, the Town will need to analyze the risks of any particular action in light of
the current situation. He emphasized that it will be important to document
everything that is a justified departure from normal procedures. Mr. Campbell
asked about Section D-2 and if it was wise to have cancellation of a meeting be a
singular action of one person. He stated that it should be the majority of Council
to decide. Mr. Crim advised that to get a majority would require Council to
make a decision in a duly called meeting. He added that the Mayor could
attempt to contact every member of Council and get a straw vote from other
members regarding a cancellation. Mr. Campbell confirmed with Mr. Crim that
a Special Council Meeting could be called to cancel future meetings. Mr. Crim
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confirmed that was correct. Mr. Campbell noted it was important to add
consultation with other members into the process.
Council Member Dunn said that Section D-2 can be removed completely
due to the fact that Council can meet electronically as can any subordinate body.
He noted that even a Special Council Meeting can be held electronically and
Council could vote to cancel the meeting. Mr. Dunn confirmed that Special
Council Meetings do not require the same notification as a regular meeting and
that meetings would still require a quorum. Mr. Crim said that was correct. Mr.
Dunn asked if they would be able to discuss regular business at an electronic
meeting by nature of the fact that they have to meet electronically under the
emergency. Mr. Crim said that it is safer if a case could be built that Council is
addressing the emergency with those actions and therefore complying with the
Freedom of Information Act. Mr. Crim said that as this emergency continues,
there will be more items that will fall into this category. He said each item will
have to be considered on a case-by-case basis. Mr. Dunn suggested that to the
best of the Town's ability, they should continue to conduct the business of the
Town as close to normal as possible. He added that the Town should be allowing
boards and commissions to do the same. Mr. Dunn said the Town should
develop a system to allow the public to participate in the meetings remotely. He
asked if the Town has any plans to allow this at Council and Board and
Commission meetings. IT Director Kuba Jedrzejczak advised Council that the
Town is working on allowing the public to participate remotely and that there are
· two mock meetings later in the week that staff has scheduled to test remote
capabilities. Mr. Jedrzejczak advised Council that the Town is currently using
WebEx for this service and that there may be expanded platforms through
WebEx that will be available for public meeting facilitation. The timeline for
implementation will be dependent on the testing.
Council Member Steinberg asked for clarification on Section B-3 and what
is meant by, "provided, that the designation of an emergency interim successor."
Mr. Crim clarified that this meant ifthe position was normally subject to
confirmation by Council, that it would not be required in this case. He gave the
example of the Zoning Administrator; Mr. Steinberg asked how long the
Ordinance is in effect. Mr. Crim said it is in effect until repealed by Council or
from the date of adoption, whichever comes first.
Mayor Burk confirmed that Council could repeal this Ordinance if
conditions improved before six months. Mr. Crim confirmed that was correct.
Mayor Burk asked if it was a requirement for everyone to participate remotely if
it was an electronic meeting. Mr. Crim said there was no requirement for a
member to participate electronically. He said it just means that a quorum does
not have to be physically assembled. Mayor Burk agreed with Council Member
Campbell's suggestion and.made a motion to change Section D-2. At the
suggestion of Mr. Crim, the Mayor restated her motion to have the chairs of the
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subordinate bodies consult with the other members of the body instead of
Council.
MOTION
On a motion by Mayor Burk, seconded by Coundl Member Steinberg, the
following was proposed:
To change Section D-2 of the Ordinance to, "The Mayor, or in the case of a
subordinate body with the chair, in ,consultation with other members of the body, may
cancel any regular meetings. "
Vice Mayor Martinez requested that, "if possible" be added to the
Ordinance as there may be times where communications go down or a couple of
Council Members are in the hospital or have family in the hospital. He didn't
want the circumstance of not being able to reach all Council Members hampering
this action if the Mayor cannot get a hold of someone. Mayor Burk and Council
Member Steinberg agreed to adding, "if possible" to the motion. Vice Mayor
Martinez told the Town Manager that he would like to see the Town do
something to help small businesses such as maybe forgiving the water and sewer
while this crisis is in effect or any other things the Town can do. Vice Mayor
Martinez added that he was willing to give up his next salary minus the medical
to contribute to whatever funds or organizations that are helping or assisting
today. He asked other Council Members to consider doing the same.
Council Member Fox said she like the addition of, "if possible." She was
concerned about cancelfug meetings in bulk and asked if something could be
added to do it meeting by meeting versus in bulk. Mr. Crim suggested adding a
new clause to the beginning of the sentence that says, "No more than X days
before the regular meeting," and then pick up with the rest of the sentence. Mr.
Crim said Council can determine the number of days and that doing it this way
that canceling is not canceling wholesale and it is being done on a case-by-case
analysis each meeting. The addition was accepted by Mayor Burk and Council
Member Steinberg. Mayor Burk noted that seven days will work. Council
Member Fox noted that a Special Meeting could be called, as needed.
Council Member Steinberg was concerned about the timeframe to cancel a
meeting. Mr. Crim noted that a meeting could be canceled up to the day before a
meeting .. He believed that the proposed language addressed Mr. Steinberg's
concerns.
Council Member Dunn expressed concern that the Mayor and Town
Manager have already communicated a desire to Council to cancel future
meetings without consultation of Council. Mr. Dunn noted that consultation
with other members could mean with one member or six members. He stated
that there should really be no reason to cancel a meeting when members can
participate electronically. Mr. Dunn desired for Council to keep doing as much
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regular business as possible. He recommended that the whole paragraph be
removed because Council has the ability already to conduct Special Meetings,
almost at the drop of a hat, take a vote, and then do whatever based on a majority
of who is in attendance at the Special Meeting~ Mr. Dunn said this section takes
away all types of majority rule and noted that he cannot support the motion.
Council Member Campbell asked for clarification on the reason for
canceling noting that it should be out of concern for the safety of Council and
staff. Mr. Campbell said that is should be for just a meeting but if the desire is to
cancel multiple meetings then it should be done by Council. He said this isn't
about shufiling agenda items but out of concern and in response to an emergency
situation. Mr. Crim confirmed that the intent of Mr. Campbell's suggested
language was to add language at the end of the sentence to state, "The Council
will only cancel meetings in emergencies out of concerns for the safety of the staff
and members of the body."
Council Member Fox confirmed that this was in addition to the language
already proposed and accepted in the motion. Mayor Burk confirmed that was
correct.
Council Member Dunn wanted to ensure that this applied to Board and
Commission chairs. Mayor Burk confirmed that it applied to Boards and
Commissions and it would be in consultation between the Chair and members of
the body. Mr. Dunn noted that if a Board or Commission Chair becomes
incapacitated that he would like four members of the body to be able to cancel a
meeting. Mr. Crim expressed concern with the suggestion in that it would
potentially be holding votes by email, text message or phone calls rather than in a
duly called meeting. Mr. Crim said it would probably be subject to challenge and
would most likely be effective. Mr. Crim noted that if the Chair was to be
incapacitated that a Special Meeting could be called to decide whether to cancel
the regular meeting or just see whether the regular meeting goes forward. He
noted as an example that it could be effectively canceled because of a lack of
quorum. Council Member Dunn restated his original statement that this section
was unnecessary because a Special Meeting could be called for almost any
reason.
Council Member Fox confirmed that a Special Meeting could be held
electronically. Mr. Crim confirmed that was correct.
Mayor Burk called for a vote on the amendments to Section D-2. While
the motion was not restated before the vote, the motion below incorporates the
amendments that were accepted by Mayor Burk and Council Member Steinberg
during Council comments.
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MOTION 2020-097
On a motion by Mayor Burk, seconded by Council Member Steinberg, the
following was proposed:
To change Section D-2 of the Ordinance to, ''No more than 7 days be.fore the
regular meeting, the mayor, or in the case of a subordinate body the chair, in consultation
with the other members of the body, if possible, may cancel any regular meeting of the body
they serve if there is no essential business that the body needs to handle. Notice of the
cancellation must be provided to the members and the public as soon as practicable. A
regular meeting can only be.canceled in an emergency situation out of concern for staff and
members of the body. "
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Campbell, Fox, Vice Mayor Martinez, Steinberg and Mayor Burk
Nay: Dunn
Vote: 5-1-1 {Thiel absent)
Council Member Dunn asked about the need for Council to physically
attend meetings when the intent was to not gather people. He noted that they
should be electronic for the whole body and the public. Mayor Burk noted that a
physical quorum was not needed. Mr. Dunn indicated he wants to avoid having
staff attend the meetings if only one Council member physically attends to avoid
dangerous situations. Mr. Dentler said staff has to be here regardless to run the
meetings but that staff was still working out the logistics of conducting remote
meetings.
The original motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Campbell, Dunn, Fox, Vice Mayor Martinez, Steinberg and Mayor Burk
Nay: None
Vote: 6-0-1 {Thiel absent)
21. Adjournment
On a motion by Council Member Fox, seconded by Council Member Steinberg, the meeting
was adjourned at 10:50 a.m.
ATTEST:
2020_tcmin0403Special
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April 3, 2020 – Special Town Council Meeting
(Note: This is a transcript prepared by a Town contractor based on the video of the meeting. It
may not be entirely accurate. For greater accuracy, we encourage you to review the video of the
meeting that is on the Town’s Web site – www.leesburgva.gov or refer to the approved Council
meeting minutes. Council meeting videos are retained for three calendar years after a meeting
per Library of Virginia Records Retention guidelines.)
Mayor Kelly Burk: Mr. Campbell you're signed on?
Council Member Ron Campbell: Yes.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Martinez? Mr. Martinez is not signed on yet. Mr. Thiel? Mr. Thiel is not signed on. We
have Mr. Dunn, Ms. Fox, Ms. Burk, and Mr. Steinberg here present. Mr. Crim, you are online?
Martin Crim: Yes, I am. Sorry about the feedback, but I finally got on the WebEx and can see the
Chambers.
Mayor Burk: Okay. Great. Sorry, we can't see you, but [laughs] we are having a Special Town Council
Meeting to create an ordinance ensuring the continuity of government. Do I have a motion?
Council Member Neil Steinberg: So moved.
Mayor Burk: So moved by Mr. Steinberg. Second?
Council Member Suzanne Fox: Second.
Mayor Burk: By Council Member Fox. Mr. Crim, would you explain what this is and why we're doing it
today?
Martin Crim: Thank you, Mayor, yes. The purpose of this ordinance is to ensure the continuity of local
government in the event that it becomes unsafe for in-person meetings and in case of greater impacts
on the operations of the essential functions of government, which include police, trash collection, and
utilities. We're especially mindful of those as we move forward. The ordinance that you have before you
with the amendments that were posted a day before yesterday provides for emergency interim
successors, for officers of the Town in case somebody is unable to act. Normally, if the manager is
unable to act-- I'm getting an echo.
Vice Mayor Marty Martinez: That's from me. I just joined.
Mayor Burk: Okay. Mr. Martinez is present.
Martin Crim: Can you put yourself on mute please?
Vice Mayor Martinez: Done already.
Mayor Burk: All right.
Martin Crim: As I was saying, normally, if the manager is able to he appoints folks to act as acting
department chairs and so on. In the event that we lose the ability to have that happen or the manager
himself becomes ill and unable to act, we have a line of succession. The people can designate their
successors. Hopefully, it won't come to that, but it is better to have it and not need it than need it and
not have it.
In part C, we've provided for suspension of certain policies and legal deadlines because of the concern
that we need to act promptly. For example, in C4 under procurement, the manager is empowered to
proceed on an emergency basis with all kinds of procurement of goods and services that may be
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necessary. In C5, we're basically suspending all deadlines pursuant to the authority given to the Town
Council by the General Assembly through Virginia Code, Section 15.2-1413.
We encourage people to meet the deadlines as much as possible, but we recognize that it just may not
be possible to do so. When you think about all the things that happen in local government as a result
of public hearings and public meetings and those are now limited by an executive order from the
Governor, it becomes clear that a lot of things are going to have to shift and slide if we try to keep the
government operating as close to normal as possible.
In part D of the draft ordinance in front of you, we provide for limitation on person-to-person contact,
rules for electronic communication meetings. I'll briefly speak to the changes that you see before you
on page seven of the draft ordinance. Section D-3, lower case d., number three, public hearings. We
wanted to make sure that this language was consistent with what we were just talking about in C5 in
terms of suspension of deadlines. If we have, for example, the rezoning applications, we're going to try
to meet the deadlines as much as is possible.
If that happens to slip, then we want to make sure that we comply with the spirit of the law if nothing
else. All of this is for a period of six months from the date of adoption. Virginia Code, Section 15.2-1413
provides for six months from the date of the disaster. It's an ongoing disaster, however, so I feel
comfortable in saying that a six-month duration from today's date is reasonable. If it becomes necessary
to extend this, then we'll have to have another meeting, which could be an electronic meeting, to extend
the ordinance ensuring the continuity of government. I stand ready to answer any questions.
Mayor Burk: Okay. Thank you. Ms. Fox, do you have any questions on this?
Council Member Fox: I do. Thank you. My biggest question has to do with Section D-3, Electronic
Communications Meeting. I read over the section and I didn't see anywhere unless I'm missing it and
you can point it out to me, where if we had an all-electronic meeting that we had to only talk about the
emergency that it's related to. I don't see that here in this provision.
Martin Crim: Thank you. That's a great question. I had previously sent you a confidential email with
regard to the risks that are associated with holding a fully-electronic communications meeting. I'll just
say for the purposes of this public meeting that we do encourage you to limit the subject matter of any
fully-electronic meeting and to think carefully about how any agenda item actually addresses the
emergency. That's going to be the key issue.
Council Member Fox: Okay. What I'm seeing here is it's not mandated, but it is preferred, correct?
Mayor Burk: It's recommended.
Martin Crim: Right. I think my office will work closely with the Council and with the subordinate bodies
to make sure that we are complying with the spirit and letter of the law.
Council Member Fox: Okay. Thank you.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Campbell?
Council Member Campbell: Yes. I have a couple of questions. One of it does relate to Councilwoman’s
Fox question. I had written a letter to Mr. Crim and I believe he copied the answers to everyone. In our
ordinance, we mentioned the Board of Supervisors' declaration of a local state of emergency. Also, on
March 25th, they had a resolution for continuity of government.
Which the question I had, one was we got a reference to Board of Supervisors' actions and we should
continue to reference what they've done in light of continuity of government. Their ordinance, and this
was my question to Mr. Crim, differs that our ordinance in the sense that they have gone further to
specifically state they can discuss items that are not specifically without a physical quorum present that
are not specifically related to the emergency but to regular business.
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Mr. Crim's counsel is that we don't extend that far in terms of an element of risk because of potential
legal liability, so I want to be clear that it's not that we cannot do it. His advisement is that we extend
ourselves maybe further than we want to because any actions we take could be challenged, which is
why, and maybe, Mr. Crim, you can help me, that the agenda-- If we were to meet without a physical
quorum present, it is possible, but we have to carefully craft the agenda because I don't want us to
come away thinking of what we can't do versus a risk factor of what we can do because risk is one
element, can't do it by State code is another element. There's no wording that says we cannot do it. We
just have to carefully craft the agenda in case that we're legally challenged, is that correct, Mr. Crim?
Martin Crim: Absolutely, sir. I think that the moment-by-moment or day-by-day analysis of the risks
involved because the conditions are changing. Two weeks ago, if you'd said there would be 10 million
new unemployment claims, we would've not believed you. Now, we've seen 10 million new
unemployment claims in the last two weeks alone.
As conditions change, as the risk of inaction increases, then obviously, we have to evaluate the pros
and cons of any particular action in light of current circumstances. We will want to document that
because the litigation, if it happens, will be after this is all over and we're sitting peacefully in the more
normal kind of situation. We want to make sure that we've documented everything that's justified
departure from normal procedures.
Council Member Campbell: Will we be better protected by at least referencing the March 25th Board
of Supervisors resolutions? At least to say that they've given themselves the power and ability to have
meetings to discuss regular items without any physical quorum. Would that be something that would
help us if we added that in our resolution?
Martin Crim: I don't know that that would help us. It would almost look like we are either criticizing the
Board of Supervisors or claiming to have authority to act on the basis of something that the Board of
Supervisors has done. I don't want to do either of those things. I don't want to criticize the Board of
Supervisors and I don't know what private advice the County Attorney has given them. I don't want to
say that the Board of Supervisors has given the Town authority because I don't think there's any ability
on their part to do so.
Council Member Campbell: I agree. It was just a question since we're referencing their emergency
declaration and without, again, anything being critical I was just wondering if it'd put us on a firm and
legal ground to do what we're doing, not that we're following them, not that we need their authority.
Anyway, thank you for that. The other question I have is on Section D-2. I think because this is such an
important issue, if cancellation of the meeting should not be a singular action by one person that it
should be majority of Council to decide whether or not our meetings get canceled or not.
An issue for me is just simply consultation and advisement where we, I think, have to act as a body to
do something as extreme as to cancel a meeting. My concern is simply that we continue to act in full
transparency with one another during this difficult time. This should not be a single power. Unless you're
telling me that by State code of statute, that's the way it has to be done.
Martin Crim: No, sir. I'm not saying that at all. The difficulty is that we can't hold a meeting to decide
whether to hold a meeting because then we're already holding a meeting, but your consultation idea is
well taken. I think we could certainly say that the Mayor shall conduct a straw poll or attempted to
contact every member of Council with regard to the cancellation. Somebody still has to make a decision
and you all cannot vote, except in a duly called meeting. I don't think we want to depart from that
principle of law.
Council Member Campbell: No, but a special meeting is a duly called meeting. You have a special
meeting to cancel future meetings.
Martin Crim: Yes. I hear what you're saying.
Council Member Campbell: My one change is that we do initiate a consultation process, whether it's
to call a special meeting to cancel future meetings. We need some kind of a consultation process.
Those are my initial questions.
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Mayor Burk: Okay. Mr. Martinez?
Vice Mayor Martinez: Well, I don't have any questions right now. I'm still thinking about how I want to
say things. Thank you.
Mayor Burk: All right. Mr. Dunn?
Council Member Thomas Dunn: Thank you. Yes, I think that Section D-2 can be removed completely
due to the fact that we are allowed to conduct electronic meetings by Council or any subordinate body.
Therefore, even a special meeting to call a cancellation of other meetings can be done electronically as
long as notice has been provided to the members of the body. I believe, and staff can correct me, but
on a special meeting, there is no time limit for notification as long as all members have been recognized
as having been notified, is that correct?
Martin Crim: That is correct. You have to provide contemporaneous notice to the public and to the
members of Council as to when and where the meeting will take place. The effect of removing D-2
would be that you would have regular meetings that would happen and they could only be canceled if
the Council held a special meeting, which could be done by electronic means and voted to cancel the
meeting. Similarly with appointed bodies that are subordinate to the Town, if you eliminate D-2, the
effect would be that they would have to have a special meeting in order to cancel any regular meeting.
Council Member Dunn: These meetings do not require the same notification to the public as public
hearings are, is that correct?
Martin Crim: That is correct.
Council Member Dunn: The electronic meetings though would still require a quorum, is that correct?
Martin Crim: A quorum, that's correct. They would have to be assembled electronically.
Council Member Dunn: I don't see why D is needed at all and I would recommend moving--
Martin Crim: You mean D-2?
Council Member Dunn: Yes, D-2. Thank you, D-2. I would just recommend removing that and then
moving all subsequent items under D forward. The other thing is the electronic meetings and noting
those for, I guess, posterity that if we can hold electronic meetings and we're holding those by their
nature because of the current emergency situation, would we not then be able to move forward with
business as usual electronically noting the fact at each meeting that the meeting is being held
electronically 100% due to the current emergency?
Martin Crim: Yes, sir. Obviously, you're safer to the extent that you can build a credible case that you
are addressing the emergency and, therefore, complying with the draft provisions of the Freedom of
Information Act. To the extent that this goes on, as it lasts longer and longer, there are probably going
to be more things that fall into that category of addressing the emergency. Because if we ignore regular
business for too long, it starts to become an emergency. That's going to be needed to be analyzed on
a case-by-case basis.
Council Member Dunn: Correct. Obviously, if we have issues that are directly related to the emergency
at hand, those should be to the forefront of our workload. To the best of our ability, we should continue
to conduct the business of the Town as close to normal as possible. I think also that we should be
allowing our boards and commissions to do the same, especially if they're able to participate
electronically that the issues that we have, which are ongoing and sometimes long-term, that we should
allow them to continue to conduct business, I think, especially if the public is able to be informed of the
meetings and participate in these.
Frankly, if we develop a system by which the public is able to participate in the meetings remotely, we
may actually have more public participation than we normally have when people are required to come
down here at Town Hall or wherever these other committee meetings are being met. To that end, how
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is staff planning on addressing-- or if you don't have the plans yet, when could you let us know when
you would have them to allow for electronic participation of the public in various committee meetings
and Council’s meetings? How do you see that happening and how do you manage the process by which
people are placed on mute and not having 50 people trying to talk at the same time?
Martin Crim: I'll let Kuba or Eileen address that. I'm not sure where our plan currently stands.
Jakub Jedrzejczak: We are actively working on it to address this issue. Today, we'll have two mock
sessions to just prepare for this reason. We do have technology in place to support that. Our current
WebEx can hold up to 200 people. What we're just working on right now is the logistics, how we're
going to manage the people who would like to speak. This is new role we're developing within our group.
We're working on it. From the technology perspective, we're ready it’s more about the management of
the meeting. It requires an additional person to be a moderator. We're trying to develop this role
internally here.
Council Member Dunn: I know there's contractual services in the public that can allow for this by the
hundreds. Are we considering those or we're trying to use, manage this just by our own internal
infrastructure?
Jakub Jedrzejczak: We are working with the vendor, the same vendor that Loudoun County is working
with. Yesterday, we had a conference call with them just dedicated to the meeting management. Long
story short, there's a WebEx technology and there's another layer of WebEx technology dedicated just
for that purpose. We are working to enable this additional service that is focused on public meetings
and management of it. We are working with a vendor, yes.
Council Member Dunn: Will this allow people to take part in the meetings by showing up at the time
of the meeting much like they would if we're meeting in public here?
Jakub Jedrzejczak: What we're planning to, we're trying to utilize the WebEx technology where the
public will be able to raise their hand if there is a need for that and as well, ahead of the meeting, we'll
be able to sign up, I would like to speak, so we add them to the list. We're working on all these
components.
Council Member Dunn: Okay. When do you see having that to continue?
Jakub Jedrzejczak: Today, we have two meetings to practice. I will be able to say where we are after
these two meetings, where we're practicing the public participation, these mock sessions that we
scheduled.
Council Member Dunn: Okay. Great. Well, that's good news because I think it's important that through
these hard times and, obviously, everybody's health and safety is foremost, but I think that also in the
emergency circumstances that we're calling that many of our normal rights have been infringed upon in
some way that we should do everything we can to, as a public body, keep the public informed. Anything
we do would be great. Thank you.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Steinberg?
Council Member Steinberg: Mr. Crim, a real quick question on Section B-3. If you could do me a favor,
I've read it several times. Can you clarify the language of the very last? It starts with a semicolon, then,
"provided, that the designation of an emergency interim successor." It just reads in an odd fashion. I
just wonder if you can put it in layman's terms.
Martin Crim: In layman's terms, what will be required is that the person have the qualifications to hold
the office. If you're talking about the chief of police, for example, they have to be qualified by the
Department of Criminal Justice Services. All of the last clauses, starting from the, "provided, that the
designation of an emergency interim successor," that language is just saying that if it's normally subject
to confirmation by Council, it's not required in this case because of the emergency. An example of that
might be the zoning administrator. If the zoning administrator required confirmation by Council or
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appointment by Council, then an emergency interim zoning administrator would not have to be. Does
that clarify that?
Council Member Steinberg: Yes, it did. I thought that's what it meant. The little comma for whatever
reason was giving me some trouble. One final thing, I'm sorry if I missed it. Does this ordinance expire
at a certain time or is this something we have to rescind at a certain time? If I misunderstand, I apologize.
Martin Crim: No, no, don't apologize. It's hidden in the, "Now, therefore, be it ordained," at the bottom
of page 1. It says it shall remain effective until it's repealed by Council or six months from the date of
adoption, whichever comes first.
Council Member Steinberg: Okay. Thank you. That's all.
Mayor Burk: All right. Mr. Thiel has not joined us. Mr. Thiel is not on. Okay. I just had a couple of
questions. My question was, again, that wording, Mr. Crim, that says that it can be extended, "shall
remain so until this ordinance is repealed by Council or until six months." If some miracle happened
and three weeks from now, everything's all better, we could rescind it at an earlier date than a later
date.
Martin Crim: Absolutely.
Mayor Burk: For the remote meetings, does that mean that everyone has to participate remotely?
Martin Crim: No, ma'am. It just means that you don't have to have a quorum assembled. There might
be reasons for some people to attend and not others. For example, it's an individual health decision
based on people's risk profile. There very well could be people who are present because they want to
see their presentation in person rather than on a screen.
Mayor Burk: It doesn't have to be 100%. Okay. I would suggest, as Mr. Campbell indicated, that D-2
be changed to say, "The Mayor, or in the case of a subordinate body with the chair, in consultation with
the Town Council, may cancel any regular meetings." I would like to make that a motion. Do I have
second on that?
Council Member Steinberg: Second.
Mayor Burk: Seconded by Mr. Steinberg.
Martin Crim: Since this also applies to subordinate bodies and I don't think that the chair in the
subordinate bodies need to consult with the Town Council, maybe it should be in consultation with the
other members of the body.
Mayor Burk: Okay. That's a better wording, yes.
Vice Mayor Martinez: Second.
Mayor Burk: Other body, okay. Yes, sir? Who's speaking?
Vice Mayor Martinez: Marty.
Mayor Burk: Okay.
Vice Mayor Martinez: I second.
Mayor Burk: [chuckles] Okay. It was already seconded by Mr. Steinberg, but you'll third it. Okay.
Vice Mayor Martinez: Okay.
Mayor Burk: All right. Any discussion on this at this point?
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Vice Mayor Martinez: I would like to make a point that all of this is based on whether people can be
contacted or not. I think somewhere, it needs to say, "If possible." Who knows, maybe communications
go down. Maybe a couple of the Council members are in the hospital or have family in the hospital. I
don't want to hamper this. If we can't get hold to people, I don't want to stall anything. I would like to
have some kind of wording in the beginning of the document that says, "As possible."
Mayor Burk: "The Mayor, or in the case of a subordinate body, the chair in consultation with other--"
Do we say with other bodies if possible?
Council Member Steinberg: Other members of the body.
Mayor Burk: Other members of the body. Okay. If possible, is that all right, Mr. Steinberg?
Council Member Steinberg: Yes.
Mayor Burk: Okay. All right. Thank you. Do you have anything else, Mr. Martinez?
Vice Mayor Martinez: Are we going to be allowed time at the end?
Mayor Burk: No. This is your time to speak.
Vice Mayor Martinez: The reason I ask because the comments I want to make are not directed at the
ordinance, it's more about overall asking the Town Manager. I would like to see us do something to
help our small businesses such as maybe forgiving the water and sewer while this crisis is in effect or
other things we can do. You know it's going to hurt? Carve-outs of money debt. Help subsidize
someone with the money their loosing. I also wanted to offer my-- I think it'd be great if we all could do
it, but I'm not going to expect that. I'm willing to give up my next salary minus the medical to contribute
to whatever funds or organizations that are helping or assisting today. Those are all my comments.
Mayor Burk: Okay. Thank you. Ms. Fox?
Council Member Fox: I had a couple of comments. Thank you. I like the wording of, "If possible." The
one thing I'm a little worried about is that if we get into canceling meetings in bulk, I'd rather see some
sort of provision for canceling meeting by meeting because we don't know what things hold. I'm a little-
-
Mayor Burk: You want it to say, "The Mayor--"
Council Member Fox: Meeting by meeting, yes. I don't want to cancel them in bulk.
Mayor Burk: "In the case of the subordinate body of the chair, in consultation with the members of the
body," this is going to be a long sentence, "if possible, consider canceling meetings individually."
Council Member Fox: The reason for this is if we start canceling meetings, then we're not going to
convene again until maybe June or something like that. I know we can call a special meeting, but I think
we could more easily just tweak an agenda. Again, going back to Marty's point, we want to do things to
maybe find some sort of relief for not just our businesses, but everybody who's mandated to stay at
home too. Utilities-wise, we can even think about what that implication might be. To have ideas put out
there and then ask our Town Manager to see what's even possible, I think it's going to take a meeting
to do that.
Mayor Burk: We most certainly may hope that you will come back May 14 with some ideas in regard
to that. I think you can feel that people want that, if you would. Let me get the wording. Make sure I've
got the wording correct. Mr. Crim, feel free to--
Martin Crim: May I make a suggestion there?
Mayor Burk: Yes.
8
Martin Crim: If we introduce a new clause at the beginning of the sentence that says, "No more than
X days before the regular meeting," and then pick up with the Mayor or in the case of. For example, if
it's 10 days, no more than 10 days in advance of the regular meeting, or seven days, some pick a
number. That way, we're not canceling wholesale. We're doing a case-by-case analysis on meeting.
Mayor Burk: Individually. Okay. That's fine. Is that fine with you?
Council Member Fox: That's fine.
Mayor Burk: Is that fine with you, Mr. Steinberg?
Council Member Fox: I think that would troubleshoot both points.
Mayor Burk: It'll say no more than due for seven or 10 days?
Council Member Fox: Well, whenever the packet comes out as well.
Council Member Steinberg: If you run into an emergency that falls within that time frame, then
suddenly, you have a problem. I think it needs to be as shorter time period as possible.
Mayor Burk: Seven days?
Council Member Fox: What is the shortest period we have to have a packet out at a certain time?
Kaj Dentler: The packet goes out Wednesday, close of business before your Monday meeting.
Council Member Fox: At least that.
Town Manager Dentler: Seven days would be probably acceptable, but we'll work with you on
whatever you're comfortable with.
Mayor Burk: We're trying to get that comfort. Seven days works.
Kaj Dentler: I think it's just going to be difficult to predict what situations we may be involved with. My
advice to you is just pick whatever you're most comfortable with at this point and we'll work around that.
Council Member Fox: My point is this is for regular meetings. We could always call a special meeting
if there's an emergency.
Kaj Dentler: Correct.
Council Member Fox: I'm talking about regular meetings because that's what we're talking about,
canceling.
Kaj Dentler: I think that even your regular meetings, when you meet on the 14th, you can look at your
remaining April, May, and June meetings. If you decide in advance you want to make any adjustments
now based on the workload, you can do that as well. We get into an emergency situation, I don't think
we can predict what may happen and what we should do at that time until the moment it occurs. From
a staff perspective, we'll just adjust accordingly.
Mayor Burk: So seven--
Council Member Steinberg: What if it said any meeting can be canceled without notice under
emergency situations with consultation of the members?
Mayor Burk: You just contradicted yourself. You said without notice--
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Council Member Steinberg: No. I'm just trying to get the wording. Basically, what I'm trying to do is
eliminate the time frame. What if you get to the 11th hour and you find you have to cancel a meeting?
Now, suddenly, we don't have the ability to do so. What I'm saying is you have the ability to cancel any
meeting with consultation of the members. I don't think you need to complicate it.
Kaj Dentler: I would defer to the Town Attorney, but I think you should just be careful don't, you box
yourself in too much because we don't know what could happen.
Council Member Steinberg: Exactly.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Crim?
Martin Crim: Thank you, Mayor. The idea here was that we not, as Ms. Fox said, cancel meetings
wholesale. The language would be no more than X days before the regular meeting. It could be as late
as the day before. I think Councilman Steinberg's concern is addressed in the language I proposed.
Mayor Burk: All right. Mr. Dunn?
Council Member Dunn: My concern with the wording is the Mayor has already mentioned in email
about canceling meetings with consultation with the Town Attorney and no consideration for--
Mayor Burk: Town Manager. Town Manager, not Attorney.
Council Member Dunn: I'm sorry. Town Attorney, with no consideration or consultation with the Council
members, just an email saying that we've looked at things and we've seen that two other meetings
should already be considered for cancellation. When you have wording that says that with consultation
of members of the body, that means one other member or six other members.
There's no majority rule in that whatsoever. The Mayor has no other authority on Council other than any
other Council member and nor should any chair of any commission have any authority than any other
chair or any other committee. I think that if you are insistent on wanting to try and cancel meetings,
which I don't know why if we're now allowing you to participate electronically, why you can't look to be
doing the business of the people on a regular basis as much as possible.
Instead of looking already at trying to cancel meetings when all you have to do to be at the meeting is
stay at home and pick up the phone, or turn on your computer or whatever other means will be made
to conduct these meetings. I don't think we should be looking at opportunities to do less work. I think
we should be looking to opportunities to at least do a minimum amount of work and not just canceling
all work altogether as what has already been demonstrated.
If the Council has a desire to look into opportunities for canceling meetings that have already been
made very easy to participate, then I would recommend that this has to be a determination by at least
a majority of Council members, not what seems to be a partisan three-person voting block that seems
to just want to just agree with each other no matter what said.
Again, I would recommend that this whole paragraph be removed because we have the ability already
to conduct special meetings, almost at the drop of a hat, take a vote, and then you can do whatever
you want based on a majority who's in attendance at the special meeting. This just takes away all types
of majority rule and I can't support that motion. Thank you.
Council Member Campbell: I would like to make a motion.
Mayor Burk: I'm sorry. Is this Mr. Campbell?
Council Member Campbell: Yes.
Mayor Burk: Go ahead.
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Council Member Campbell: I do agree with some of the comments of Mr. Dunn. The point of
clarification I wanted to make though on why the meetings would be canceled would be out of a due
concern of caution or the safety of not just ourselves but also our staff. To me, it's not an agenda item
about what can be discussed and not discussed. It just makes it impractical at times. It could be
impractical at times and out of concern and caution for our staff not to put anybody in jeopardy.
Now, for me as a single opportunity, if with due consultation, if we're talking about one meeting because
of this safety concern and if we're talking about multiple meetings and that should be an electronic
meeting for us as a Council to decide how we're going to handle future multiple meetings. As a special
occurrence or safety, not because of agenda, a meeting might be canceled. As Mr. Dunn says, we can
meet electronically.
Then I think in consultation with us, it doesn't have to be a majority, we say this one meeting because
of this critical safety issue and our concern for ourselves and our staff that we not meet physically.
Future, we have to decide how we proceed if this seems like it's going to impact multiple meetings, that
then we must have majority rule as a Council. No prohibition for us to do that because we can meet
electronically.
I want to put the framework together as to why a meeting would be canceled, not because we can move
the agenda or the item doesn't make sense for us to discuss. That's not why these emergency
provisions are in place. It's due to this emergency situation and the coronavirus. I think we have to stay
focused on that. This isn't shuffling agenda items. This is a response to an emergency crisis.
For a singular emergency, one-meeting crisis, I think we can strengthen the language about how we
move. To move any further than that in future meetings, it must be a Council action. Well, as it's written
and how we're trying to craft it right now, I can't support it that way. My objection only is a safety concern
for one meeting and future meetings or any other cancellations has to be a Council action.
Mayor Burk: Do you have any wording, Mr. Campbell that you would like to suggest?
Council Member Campbell: Well, again, I go back and I guess I can find it. If we're talking about
cancellations of meetings in an emergency situation, the condition has to be that a meeting can only be
canceled in an emergency situation out of concern for the safety of the staff and the Council. That the
Mayor in consultation with the Town Council can't make that call for that one meeting. Future
cancellations will be done by electronic means with the majority of Council present.
Mayor Burk: Eileen, do you have that?
Eileen Boeing: I have Mr. Campbell's suggested language as “A meeting can only be canceled in an
emergency situation out of concern of staff and Council. In consultation with Town Council, the Mayor
can make that call. Future meetings to be determined at a future special Council meeting”.
Council Member Campbell: Yes.
Mayor Burk: Is that your wording, Mr. Campbell?
Council Member Campbell: Yes, that's my intent. Could words make it cleaner, but that's the intent.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Crim, is that satisfactory? Are we legally doing it the right way?
Martin Crim: I just want to make sure I understand it. This would be additional language in D-2, perhaps
at the end, so that it's a qualification that-- It's basically saying, "This is how it's done," in the first
sentence. "When" and "By whom" and "In consultation with whom," but the last sentence will then say
"But, effectively, the Council will only cancel meetings in emergencies out of concerns for the safety of
the staff and members of the Council." Is that where it would go?
Mayor Burk: Well, we shouldn't say "members of the Council," because this is going to apply to other
bodies, other--
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Martin Crim: Yes, members of the body.
Mayor Burk: Right. All right?
Martin Crim: Yes, no. That is absolutely clear and I think that makes sense.
Council Member Fox: That's in addition to what we had before. Everything for the regular meetings
still stands because that's what we were talking about. We were talking about regular meetings that you
might want to cancel?
Mayor Burk: Yes.
Council Member Fox: Okay.
Mayor Burk: All right.
Council Member Dunn: I'd like to offer up a slight change to Mr. Campbell's wording if I could. Eileen,
what is that wording again?
Eileen Boeing: "A regular meeting can only be canceled in an emergency situation out of concern of
staff and Town Council. In consultation with the Town Council, the Mayor can make that call. Future
meetings to be determined at a special Council meeting."
Council Member Dunn: Again, I think the Mayor brought this up. Where are you addressing the other
boards and commissions in this? There is no mention of them, right?
Mayor Burk: Mr. Crim, correct me if I'm wrong, but it states it at the beginning. Where is it? It states
that this applies to the other bodies.
Council Member Dunn: At this point, we're just saying the chair of the other bodies is doing it.
Mayor Burk: No, they're following the same procedure.
Council Member Dunn: With the consultation of Council?
Mayor Burk: Not Council, their body.
Council Member Dunn: I mean, the chair, yes their body. What I would like to offer up with that,
especially if it's an emergency situation, there may be a situation where the Mayor and/or the chair of
the other body is incapacitated. I would like to try and dress this up a little bit if it seems like Council's
wanting to go forward with this type of measure that with a majority of Council and a majority of
subordinate bodies may cancel any regular meeting and then proceed from there. In other words, it just
allows for the majority of the body, either the Council or committees, to have four people who are willing
to cancel a regularly scheduled meeting.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Dunn, I--
Martin Crim: Mayor, I have a--
Mayor Burk: Yes?
Martin Crim: I have a concern about that. My concern is that we would be potentially holding votes by
email or text message or phone calls rather than in a duly called meeting. I think that would probably
be subject to challenge and would most likely be effective. I certainly recognize Mr. Dunn's concern that
if the Mayor or chair is unable to cancel, then this provision would be inoperative. Would you still, as
Mr. Dunn pointed out, have the option of calling a special meeting to decide whether to cancel the
regular meeting or just see whether the regular meeting goes forward? If not, then it's canceled
effectively because of a lack of quorum, for example.
12
Council Member Dunn: I would go back to my original statement that you can do a special meeting at
almost any reason and it makes this whole paragraph unnecessary. Thank you.
Mayor Burk: All right. Ms. Fox?
Council Member Fox: A special meeting can be held electronically, correct? All of us, we can all be at
home and do that?
Martin Crim: Yes.
Council Member Fox: Okay. Thanks.
Mayor Burk: Thank you, Mr. Crim. Thank you. We have a motion on the table. All in favor, indicate by
saying, "Aye."
Council Member Steinberg: Aye.
Council Member Campbell: Aye.
Vice Mayor Martinez: Aye.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Steinberg, Mr. Campbell, Mr. Martinez, Ms. Burk, Ms. Fox. Nay?
Council Member Dunn: Nay.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Dunn. Absent is Mr. Thiel. We have a motion to accept this ordinance. A move by
Council Member Steinberg, seconded by Council Member Fox. All in favor?
Council Member Dunn: Madam Mayor, I have a question on that. If I could try to remember something
you brought up-- Oh, you mentioned about us being able to do electronic meetings. Would that allow
for-- I assume you meant people to attend. You meant Council members?
Mayor Burk: Yes, and the public if they--
Council Member Dunn: I thought that that's the whole reason why we're trying to have electronic
meetings, is to not have any gathering of us.
Mayor Burk: You don't have to have a quorum.
Council Member Dunn: Okay. Because I would recommend that if we are going to hold electronic
meetings that it'd be in electronic format for the whole body and for the public. That would eliminate, as
we just pointed out in 2D, the emergency meetings being canceled should be at the utmost concern for
staff. When you have the staff having to be required to be here because one Council member wants to
be here, then that would, I assume, require more staff time. Not more staff time, but would require also
staff be here, wouldn't it Kaj? Much like they are now at this meeting. Although you may not be able to
see it, but there's five other staff. There's more staff members in this Council chamber than there are
Council members.
Town Manager Dentler: Staff's going to have to be present to operate the meetings anyway.
Someone's going to have to be here.
Council Member Dunn: You're going to need five people to operate that meeting?
Kaj Dentler: I didn't say a number, Mr. Dunn. I just said staff will have to be here. As our IT director
referenced earlier, we're still working out the meeting logistics of how this will work.
13
Council Member Dunn: Well, my recommendation is that if we're going to hold electronic meetings,
the electronic meeting would be all members participate electronically, not having some here to bring
other people in a dangerous situation.
Mayor Burk: He just said that they would already have staff here anyway.
Council Member Dunn: We wouldn't have as many staff.
Mayor Burk: We do have a motion on the table. It was moved by Council Member Steinberg. Council
Member Fox seconded it. All in favor, indicate by saying, "Aye."
Council Members: Aye.
Mayor Burk: Ms. Fox-
Council Member Campbell: Aye.
Mayor Burk: - Ms. Burk, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Martinez? Mr. Steinberg?
Vice Mayor Martinez: Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed? I've missed you, Mr. Dunn. Okay. All right. Is there a motion to adjourn?
Council Member Fox: So moved.
Mayor Burk: Second?
Council Member Steinberg: Second.
Mayor Burk: Okay. Council Member Fox, Council Member Steinberg, second. All in favor, indicate by
saying, "Aye."
Council Members: Aye.
Mayor Burk: All right. Opposed? All right. Everyone, stay safe and we'll see you.