HomeMy Public PortalAbout07-10-2000PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES - JULY 10, 2000
PRESENT: LENNY LEUER, SUSIE MACKAY, ELIZABETH WEIR, TOM SUPEL,
JERRY BROST, JIM LANE AND BRUCE WORKMAN ARRIVED AT 8:00
P.M. ALSO PRESENT: MAYOR JOHN FERRIS, COUNCILOR
CAROLYN SMITH, ADMINISTRATOR CLERK -TREASURER PAUL
ROBINSON AND PLANNING AND ZONING ASSISTANT SANDIE
LARSON
Chairperson Lenny Leuer called the meeting to order at 7:37 p.m.
Lenny Leuer explained that this was a regular planning commission that had been
changed to Monday from Tuesday to assure a quorum of the commission.
Paul Robinson introduced what the planning commission was doing tonight and that
although there were 7 items mentioned in the legal notice, if there were other areas of
the comprehensive plan that they wanted to discuss, that was o.k.
Tom Supel asked of the Met Council was requiring these changes and he was told no.
The city council had directed that the planning commission address these proposed
changes.
P. Robinson said that we will address this issue by issue.
The public hearing was opened.
Item #1 - southern portion of the property east of County Road 101 and south of
the Cherry Hill development be re -guided from Urban Residential to Multi -Family
Residential - approximately .9 acres:
P. Robinson explained this item. He said that this one did have Met Council input from
a staff level. Their goal in sewered areas is 3 units per acre and by adding this property
to the MR zone in the guide plan would give Medina that goal. Paul said that this piece
of property was guided MR in the 1992 plan and when he drew the line for the 2000
plan he inadvertently put the line to the south at the property line instead of where it had
been and that is how it got passed at the city council level.
There were no public comments.
Item #2 -three areas guided to receive sewer between the years 2020 and 2040:
P. Robinson said item #2, the removing of the 2040 Ultimate Sewer Area came from city
council discussion that by withdrawing this area from the MUSA would limit growth for
the future. He said that this was not a unanimous decision at the city council, but the
vote was 4 to 1 to pass it on to the planning commission for a public hearing and get
input on it.
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Lenny Leuer asked if this was an all or nothing decision, as there were 3 areas that
were included in this.
P. Robinson said that it was a land use decision and could be acted on area by area.
W. J.(Bill) Cavanaugh, 2015 Aquila Ave. Golden Valley, said that his family had
purchased property in Medina in 1969. He said he is protected by the constitution that
his property won't be devalued.
P. Robinson outlined the Cavanaugh property on the overhead.
B. Cavanaugh said that he was notified that sewer was going to be taken out and that
he already had it by virtue of the snowmobile folks - the Mohawk - Chippewa sewer was
in now. He stated that articles 4 & 8 in the constitution protect him. He said he wants
his rights and he knows he will prevail - the city can't fool him - he said he did not
understand the notice that he had received.
P. Robinson said that at previous planning commission and city council meetings, there
had been discussion of where the commercial and residential lines should be and that
based on input from Mr. Cavanaugh, the lines had been changed and a portion of his
property was taken out of UC1 and placed in Rural Residential. This was pointed out to
Mr. Cavanaugh.
Laura Van Heesch, 11439 Yucca St NW, Coon Rapids, said that her family owns
property in the area being discussed. Her brother had faxed a letter to the city earlier
today and she went over parts of the letter. The family is against taking the property out
of the MUSA area.
Jim Croal, 2234 Chippewa Road, said that he is hearing from people that they want
their property to be buildable - it seems like the city is tying up the single family farms
and only large developers can develop property in Medina. He wanted to know what
the reason was for stopping the development of land with sewer - he said it seems like a
no brainer to allow sewer in the area.
P. Robinson said there is a broader goal. The planning commission started with the
1992 plan and there were not significant changes in the 2000 plan - the biggest change
was the Rural Commercial/Industrial zone to the UC1 zone. He said the area we are
talking about now was guided for Rural Residential in the 1992 plan and also the 2000
plan. The change is removing it from the Ultimate Sewer area - there is always a place
where the pipe stops. The pipe that was put along Highway 55 was considered a bail
out for businesses that were having failing septic systems.
Judy Herwig, said that they own a 5 acre parcel just south of the Hamel Park. She said
that sewer and water were needed to build here because of the soils - she said she
does not want to loose the ability for sewer.
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Reg Pederson, 2870 Comstock, Plymouth, said that he owns 2 parcels in this area of
Medina, 1 residential and 1 commercial. He said he thinks it is shortsighted to downsize
the size of the pipe, so that problems in the future cannot be fixed. He said once the
pipe is done, nothing can be done. He feels it is not a good plan to do this - it is
potentially taking value away from the property owners. He said if a pipe is in and it is
too small, it is too late if a future city council wants to expand.
Bill Sawochka, 4268 Arrowhead Drive, said that he owns property north of the Faue
property and wanted to know how accurate is 2020. In 1992 was Foxberry slated for
sewer or was it passed thru to get it there earlier.
L. Leuer said when Lundgrens came to us there was some bias at the city council level
where the sewer went - he reminded everyone that the planning commission was a
recommending body to the city council.
P. Robinson said that amendments can be made to any comprehensive plan. Foxberry
was guided for sewer between 2000 - 2010 and what did happen gives credibility to the
idea that staging can be moved up, but the Foxberry area was always guided for the
sewer. The City will once again redo the comprehensive plan in 10 years.
B. Sawochka said that with Foxberry to the east it makes sense to bring the sewer
around the lake - he said he does not want to develop, but it would not be fair to block
them off for the future.
Harold Pederson, 4645 Mohawk Drive, asked if we were making headway by taking this
area out of the future sewer area. He said it is too bad the city is even thinking about it.
He said it was a `crock of bull' to pull us out of here. (All in attendance agreed).
The court reporter hired by Bill Cavanaugh introduced herself - Julie Haskovitz.
Dave Cavanaugh, said that he has owned land here for a long time (Bill's son) - he said
that property owners have been taxed without representation - he said Medina is being
a Plymouth without letting long time property owners use their land - outsiders like
Polaris come in and get what they want - he said who do you want this to benefit, the
large corporation or the small property owner.
Chris Sundin, 1525 Hackamore Road, said she they are the lone ranger here tonight -
they are not opposed to this change - they would like to see it stay rural - there is rather
unique wildlife and would like to see it stay - she wanted to know if it was changed, if it
would be permanent.
L. Leuer said that it could change when the comprehensive plan is done again.
Mike Casey, 1910 Katrinka Road, said he is not planning on developing his land, but
permanent means closure and that bothers him - he would eventually like to see sewer
and water in the area.
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Joe Cavanaugh, (Bill's brother) said that he owns a 13 acre parcel along Highway 55
(not in this proposal). He said they had more rights when they bought than we have
now. He said he does not know where this is coming from - it is getting out of line -
better do some more thinking - it is garbage, dealing with peoples rights - he said he
does not like it and there is a roomful of people who don't like it.
P. Robinson reminded everyone that this is the first time the planning commission has
heard this proposal.
Craig Anderson, 2000 Lost Horse Road, said that he has 9+ acres, with the house being
toward the back and they have been planting trees on the front half - had anticipated
selling to one of their kids someday, but with the 5 acres zoning cannot - it was going to
be part of our retirement.
R. Pederson said there seems to be a contradiction - adding sewer on 1 side to add
density for the Met Council and on the other side, limiting it.
P. Robinson said once again, that the guide plan has not changed from 1992 to 2000.
Bill Ciora, 915 Sunset Court, asked the lot size with sewer.
P. Robinson said it depends on the zoning; UR is 9,000 square feet minimum and SR it
30,000 square foot minimum.
Bruce Workman, 2212 Chippewa Road, (speaking as a resident and not a planning
commissioner) said that he has been involved with the city since 1989 and lives in the
area that is being talked about and this is a total surprise to me - he said it seems to be
a 180 degree turn by the city council - in the past the residents in this area have been
told that long term we would have sewer. He said it is unfair and he resents being
treated like this. He said he took the lumps when Polaris went in. He told the residents
in attendance that if the city council approved this change, he invited them to join him in
a class action suit.
Art Scherber, 2120 Chippewa Road, said that he has 17+ acres and the bottom line is
that if they are taken out of the ultimate sewer area it deflates land value.
Cathy Atkinson, 2000 Pawnee Road, said she would like to reiterate Art's comments.
B. Sawochka said that the option of having sewer and water is a good one, not
necessarily to develop, but the option to have it.
J. Cavanaugh said that in the room there was 100+ years of land ownership who don't
want to sell to the `city slickers'.
Chris Sundin said that the commission has heard from the Medina residents to keep it
rural, but they want to develop their land.
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Marvin Herwig, 9410 Fox Valley, said you are saying we can't have sewer - is it then
okay for my water from the mound system to run into the creek?
L. Leuer said we will look at #3 as 3 separate parcels and now wanted to open this up
for planning commission discussion.
Jim Lane said it was a good idea to break it up for discussion.
Jerry Brost said it would be helpful to show what has changed since 1992 - 2000 - 2010
- he said he has heard different things and it needs some clarification.
Paul Robinson explained the changes - he said the only difference in 1992, there was a
small area of commercial/industrial where the ultimate sewer line was, but the guide
plan showed rural residential - he said the biggest change is the ultimate MUSA
Tom Supel said if the area is zoned RR, is it possible to keep the RR zoning and have
sewer.
P. Robinson said no - he said the only areas in the RR zoning that have sewer are bail
out situations.
T. Supel said that we have tied together the sewer and the zoning - it seems like you
could have large lots and still have sewer.
P. Robinson said you would then create a new zoning classification.
John Ferris said that the Met Council wants 3 units per acre in the sewered areas - he
said the appropriate land use north of 55 should be dealt with.
T. Supel said they have heard many comments tonight - sewer and water for the
residents even if in the RR zone - the decision has come down to how we want to
develop the land.
J. Ferris said the Met Council would like to see 50-60,000 residents in Medina in the
next 40 years and we would like to see about 6,000.
T. Supel said there is a financial issue if sewer were brought to larger lots - he
wondered how much was spent on the infrastructure to sewer a smaller portion.
J. Ferris said if the planning commission does not think the area should come out of the
ultimate MUSA, then recommend that to the city council and let them deal with it.
Carolyn Smith, 2752 Hamel Road, city council member, said that for the record, they did
a feasibility study about 2 years ago for 7 homes that had failing septic systems and to
bring sewer to them would have been about $25,000 per lot. She said the sewer line
has always been around the Hamel area - Foxberry - Elwell - she said what people are
saying is they want sewer and water and to develop their property - she said you need
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to think about the traffic that increased development brings - it is expensive to have
more density - is that what you really want? - you cannot develop without infrastructure -
she said be sure you know what you are asking for.
B. Workman said that the ultimate MUSA used to go to the city limits and it has
continually been moved away.
P. Robinson said that the main motivation for the city council member who brought this
up, was if not guided for 2020-2040 sewer, it would put up a more stringent road block
to future urban development, slow down the future growth and size the pipe accordingly.
R. Pederson said that as far as signals on 55, the one at Arrowhead is wasted -
C. Sundin said that lots of people go north on Arrowhead/Hackamore, the county people
and others.
H. Pederson said that it is impossible to get onto Highway 55 in the morning.
J. Cavanaugh said more density will bring more Highway 55 traffic - he said the traffic
now is coming from Buffalo and Monticello where they have allowed development.
Elizabeth Weir said that the 2C area seems a natural flow - keep this piece in the
ultimate sewer area - it is good planning - should be in (area south of Hamel Park)
Susie Mackay wanted the Elm Creek Interceptor clarified.
P. Robinson said that the size of it will be what the City wants - he said that there was a
committee made up of several cities that is looking at this issue.
S. Mackay asked if we tell the Met Council that these areas are guided never to be
sewered, then will we get a smaller pipe.
P. Robinson said they would use that in their calculations.
S. Mackay said if there is a smaller pipe, it is harder to change it - she said there are
improvements to septic technology all the time - she said there is always newer and
better ways to treat waste. She said that there has been overwhelming feed back to
keep Medina rural and it has been our mandate to look at land planning - she said it has
nothing to do with taking away rights.
B. Workman said the biggest question is how does it affect the long term goals of the
city - he said he is concerned about the time frame - we have been in the planning
process for this comprehensive plan for two years and the timing is suspect for this
change now.
A. Scherber asked if the area north of 55 could be broke up into more than one area.
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B. Cavanaugh said that Plymouth has lots of commercial land and there were no takers
for a long time.
J. Lane said he is troubled by the process. He suggested that he could move this to be
tabled, go back to the city council and have a joint planning commission -city council
meeting to discuss this.
J. Ferris said that he has no agenda here - he thinks the planning commission should
recommend to the city council to drop this idea if that is what the planning commission
wants and let the city council deal with it.
P. Robinson talked about the procedure. He said that ever since the city council
adopted the comprehensive plan, several issues have come up at the city council level.
They were purposely put aside as they came up, so that they could be dealt with all at
one time.
C. Smith said that nothing devious has happened with this issue that we are talking
about tonight. One city council member brought it up and the majority of the council
thought it best to have a public hearing on it to get both resident and planning
commission input.
B. Sawochka asked what prompted the city council to do this.
J. Ferris explained that this was an amendment to the comp plan that we were talking
about.
C. Smith said once again that a council member was concerned about growth. He
wanted the ultimate line moved to where it is for 2020 - the council voted on this for it to
go to the planning commission for a public hearing and come back to the council for
action.
J. Ferris said that since he has been mayor, 2 developers have called him and none
since. He told them that staff is who they talk to, that he is not interested in meeting
with them.
J. Lane said that he felt there was insufficient evidence to deal with this tonight.
L. Leuer said it is not our chore to pass the buck.
J. Lane felt we should defer this for discussion until the public hearing is closed on all
the issues.
J. Ferris said we should deal with it now for all the people that are here.
S. Mackay asked how many sewered lots we would be talking about in this area.
P. Robinson said it is hard to say, but he thought about 400-600.
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There was further discussion on zoning and the use of the area in question.
The public hearing on item #2 was closed.
MOVED BY ELIZABETH WEIR AND SECONDED BY SUSIE MACKAY TO
RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL THAT THE ULTIMATE SEWER LINE STAY
AS SHOWN IN THE 2000 COMPREHENSIVE PLAN EXCEPT FOR THE HENNEPIN
COUNTY PROPERTY SOUTH OF HIGHWAY 55.
Jerry Brost wanted to know the rationale for taking the county property out.
E. Weir said that it is self sufficient and very unlikely to ever develop.
MOTION PASSED WITH JIM LANE AND BRUCE WORKMAN ABSTAINING.
Item #3 - Three properties east of Willow Drive and north of Chippewa Road be re -
guided from Rural Residential to Urban Commercial 1:
P. Robinson explained item #3. This area has been shown in and out of the UC guiding
during various phases of the comp plan. Reasons for including the acreage in the UC
that may be beneficial to the city include that fact that there is commercial development
to the west and the south and part of the property is located on a corner where
infrastructure improvements are scheduled including the realignment of Willow Drive
and Highway 55, realignment and upgrading of Chippewa Road and signals at the
corner of 55 and Willow. Added commercial property will help offset the costs for the
city as well as for surrounding properties.
There were no public comments.
P. Robinson said that one resident to the east had expressed concern, but when told
buffers were being discussed for between commercial and residential then was not
concerned. Paul also mentioned that the property owner of the property discussed
here for the UC1 guiding had sent a letter expressing interest in that being done.
MOVED BY ELIZABETH WEIR AND SECONDED BY JERRY BROST TO
RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL THAT THE GUIDING OF THE THREE
PROPERTIES EAST OF WILLOW DRIVE AND NORTH OF CHIPPEWA ROAD BE
CHANGED FROM RURAL RESIDENTIAL TO URBAN COMMERCIAL 1.
MOTION PASSED.
The commission went back to item #1 for voting.
MOVED BY TOM SUPEL AND SECONDED BY JERRY BROST TO RECOMMEND TO
THE CITY COUNCIL THAT THE SOUTHERN PORTION OF THE PROPERTY EAST
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OF COUNTY ROAD 101 AND SOUTH OF CHERRY HILL BE RE -GUIDED FROM
URBAN RESIDENTIAL TO MULTI -FAMILY RESIDENTIAL.
MOTION PASSED.
Item #4 - One property west of County Road 101 and south of the Cherry Hill
development be re -guided from Urban Residential to Urban Commercial -
approximately 1 acre:
P. Robinson explained that the owner of this property would like to develop it
commercially and he also owns the property to the south. Paul also explained that due
to the setback that is currently required between commercial and residential (75 feet)
that a commercial use of this property would likely be a better choice than keeping it
residential where the setback is 10'. None of the residential properties that had been
notified had responded with comments.
Sandie Larson said that the commercial property owner to the west had called and
when explained to them they had no problem with the proposed change.
J. Brost asked if functionally UC was similar to UC1 and he was told yes.
MOVED BY ELIZABETH WEIR AND SECONDED BY TOM SUPEL TO RECOMMEND
TO THE CITY COUNCIL THAT THE ONE PROPERTY DIRECTLY SOUTH OF
CHERRY HILL BE RE -GUIDED FROM URBAN RESIDENTIAL TO URBAN
COMMERCIAL.
MOTION PASSED.
Item #5 - German Liberal Cemetery, St. Peter and Paul's Catholic Cemetery,
Woodridge Church, Medina City Hall, Holy Name Cemetery and Holy Name
Church be re -guided from Public/Semi-Public to Rural Residential:
P. Robinson explained that there were two options for this. By removing the public -
semi -public zoning, it will make the zoning map less cluttered. In the rural residential
zoning, cemeteries and churches are conditional use permit uses, while if left in public/
semi-public, that zoning ordinances would have to be changed to allow those uses.
J. Lane mentioned that recently the German Liberal cemetery had increased it's use
and platted more lots.
There was discussion of current cemeteries in the city, all of which had been in the city
for many years.
MOVED BY JERRY BROST AND SECONDED BY JIM LANE TO RECOMMEND TO
THE CITY COUNCIL THAT THE AREAS DESIGNATED FOR PUBLIC/ SEMI-PUBLIC
BE RE -GUIDED TO RURAL RESIDENTIAL
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MOTION PASSED.
Item #6 - St. Anne's Church and Cemetery be re -guided from Public/Semi-Public
to Uptown Hamel:
P. Robinson explained that to re -guide this to Uptown Hamel instead of residential
made sense because it was in the middle of Uptown Hamel and is very much a part of
the Hamel area.
MOVED BY ELIZABETH WEIR AND SECONDED BY SUSIE MACKAY TO
RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL TO RE -GUIDE ST. ANNE'S CHURCH AND
CEMETERY FROM PUBLIC/SEMI-PUBLIC TO UPTOWN HAMEL.
MOTION PASSED.
Item #7 - A parcel north of County Road 24 and east of Parkview Drive be re -
guided from Rural Residential to Agricultural Preserve:
P. Robinson explained that the city council had already approved this re -zoning and this
just was a housekeeping change for the comprehensive plan guiding.
MOVED BY ELIZABETH WEIR AND SECONDED BY JERRY BROST THAT A
PARCEL NORTH OF COUNTY ROAD 24 AND EAST OF PARKVIEW DRIVE BE RE -
GUIDED FROM RURAL RESIDENTIAL TO AGRICULTURAL PRESERVE.
MOTION PASSED.
Lenny Leuer went back to item #2 and said that Bill Cavanaugh had requested another
change.
After discussion it was determined to leave as is.
MOVED BY ELIZABETH WEIR AND SECONDED BY TOM SUPEL TO ADJOURN.
MOTION PASSED.
Meeting adjourned at 10:10 p.m.
Planning and Zoning Assistant Date
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