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HomeMy Public PortalAbout07-10-2000PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES - JULY 10, 2000 PRESENT: LENNY LEUER, SUSIE MACKAY, ELIZABETH WEIR, TOM SUPEL, JERRY BROST, JIM LANE AND BRUCE WORKMAN ARRIVED AT 8:00 P.M. ALSO PRESENT: MAYOR JOHN FERRIS, COUNCILOR CAROLYN SMITH, ADMINISTRATOR CLERK -TREASURER PAUL ROBINSON AND PLANNING AND ZONING ASSISTANT SANDIE LARSON Chairperson Lenny Leuer called the meeting to order at 7:37 p.m. Lenny Leuer explained that this was a regular planning commission that had been changed to Monday from Tuesday to assure a quorum of the commission. Paul Robinson introduced what the planning commission was doing tonight and that although there were 7 items mentioned in the legal notice, if there were other areas of the comprehensive plan that they wanted to discuss, that was o.k. Tom Supel asked of the Met Council was requiring these changes and he was told no. The city council had directed that the planning commission address these proposed changes. P. Robinson said that we will address this issue by issue. The public hearing was opened. Item #1 - southern portion of the property east of County Road 101 and south of the Cherry Hill development be re -guided from Urban Residential to Multi -Family Residential - approximately .9 acres: P. Robinson explained this item. He said that this one did have Met Council input from a staff level. Their goal in sewered areas is 3 units per acre and by adding this property to the MR zone in the guide plan would give Medina that goal. Paul said that this piece of property was guided MR in the 1992 plan and when he drew the line for the 2000 plan he inadvertently put the line to the south at the property line instead of where it had been and that is how it got passed at the city council level. There were no public comments. Item #2 -three areas guided to receive sewer between the years 2020 and 2040: P. Robinson said item #2, the removing of the 2040 Ultimate Sewer Area came from city council discussion that by withdrawing this area from the MUSA would limit growth for the future. He said that this was not a unanimous decision at the city council, but the vote was 4 to 1 to pass it on to the planning commission for a public hearing and get input on it. 1 Lenny Leuer asked if this was an all or nothing decision, as there were 3 areas that were included in this. P. Robinson said that it was a land use decision and could be acted on area by area. W. J.(Bill) Cavanaugh, 2015 Aquila Ave. Golden Valley, said that his family had purchased property in Medina in 1969. He said he is protected by the constitution that his property won't be devalued. P. Robinson outlined the Cavanaugh property on the overhead. B. Cavanaugh said that he was notified that sewer was going to be taken out and that he already had it by virtue of the snowmobile folks - the Mohawk - Chippewa sewer was in now. He stated that articles 4 & 8 in the constitution protect him. He said he wants his rights and he knows he will prevail - the city can't fool him - he said he did not understand the notice that he had received. P. Robinson said that at previous planning commission and city council meetings, there had been discussion of where the commercial and residential lines should be and that based on input from Mr. Cavanaugh, the lines had been changed and a portion of his property was taken out of UC1 and placed in Rural Residential. This was pointed out to Mr. Cavanaugh. Laura Van Heesch, 11439 Yucca St NW, Coon Rapids, said that her family owns property in the area being discussed. Her brother had faxed a letter to the city earlier today and she went over parts of the letter. The family is against taking the property out of the MUSA area. Jim Croal, 2234 Chippewa Road, said that he is hearing from people that they want their property to be buildable - it seems like the city is tying up the single family farms and only large developers can develop property in Medina. He wanted to know what the reason was for stopping the development of land with sewer - he said it seems like a no brainer to allow sewer in the area. P. Robinson said there is a broader goal. The planning commission started with the 1992 plan and there were not significant changes in the 2000 plan - the biggest change was the Rural Commercial/Industrial zone to the UC1 zone. He said the area we are talking about now was guided for Rural Residential in the 1992 plan and also the 2000 plan. The change is removing it from the Ultimate Sewer area - there is always a place where the pipe stops. The pipe that was put along Highway 55 was considered a bail out for businesses that were having failing septic systems. Judy Herwig, said that they own a 5 acre parcel just south of the Hamel Park. She said that sewer and water were needed to build here because of the soils - she said she does not want to loose the ability for sewer. 2 Reg Pederson, 2870 Comstock, Plymouth, said that he owns 2 parcels in this area of Medina, 1 residential and 1 commercial. He said he thinks it is shortsighted to downsize the size of the pipe, so that problems in the future cannot be fixed. He said once the pipe is done, nothing can be done. He feels it is not a good plan to do this - it is potentially taking value away from the property owners. He said if a pipe is in and it is too small, it is too late if a future city council wants to expand. Bill Sawochka, 4268 Arrowhead Drive, said that he owns property north of the Faue property and wanted to know how accurate is 2020. In 1992 was Foxberry slated for sewer or was it passed thru to get it there earlier. L. Leuer said when Lundgrens came to us there was some bias at the city council level where the sewer went - he reminded everyone that the planning commission was a recommending body to the city council. P. Robinson said that amendments can be made to any comprehensive plan. Foxberry was guided for sewer between 2000 - 2010 and what did happen gives credibility to the idea that staging can be moved up, but the Foxberry area was always guided for the sewer. The City will once again redo the comprehensive plan in 10 years. B. Sawochka said that with Foxberry to the east it makes sense to bring the sewer around the lake - he said he does not want to develop, but it would not be fair to block them off for the future. Harold Pederson, 4645 Mohawk Drive, asked if we were making headway by taking this area out of the future sewer area. He said it is too bad the city is even thinking about it. He said it was a `crock of bull' to pull us out of here. (All in attendance agreed). The court reporter hired by Bill Cavanaugh introduced herself - Julie Haskovitz. Dave Cavanaugh, said that he has owned land here for a long time (Bill's son) - he said that property owners have been taxed without representation - he said Medina is being a Plymouth without letting long time property owners use their land - outsiders like Polaris come in and get what they want - he said who do you want this to benefit, the large corporation or the small property owner. Chris Sundin, 1525 Hackamore Road, said she they are the lone ranger here tonight - they are not opposed to this change - they would like to see it stay rural - there is rather unique wildlife and would like to see it stay - she wanted to know if it was changed, if it would be permanent. L. Leuer said that it could change when the comprehensive plan is done again. Mike Casey, 1910 Katrinka Road, said he is not planning on developing his land, but permanent means closure and that bothers him - he would eventually like to see sewer and water in the area. 3 Joe Cavanaugh, (Bill's brother) said that he owns a 13 acre parcel along Highway 55 (not in this proposal). He said they had more rights when they bought than we have now. He said he does not know where this is coming from - it is getting out of line - better do some more thinking - it is garbage, dealing with peoples rights - he said he does not like it and there is a roomful of people who don't like it. P. Robinson reminded everyone that this is the first time the planning commission has heard this proposal. Craig Anderson, 2000 Lost Horse Road, said that he has 9+ acres, with the house being toward the back and they have been planting trees on the front half - had anticipated selling to one of their kids someday, but with the 5 acres zoning cannot - it was going to be part of our retirement. R. Pederson said there seems to be a contradiction - adding sewer on 1 side to add density for the Met Council and on the other side, limiting it. P. Robinson said once again, that the guide plan has not changed from 1992 to 2000. Bill Ciora, 915 Sunset Court, asked the lot size with sewer. P. Robinson said it depends on the zoning; UR is 9,000 square feet minimum and SR it 30,000 square foot minimum. Bruce Workman, 2212 Chippewa Road, (speaking as a resident and not a planning commissioner) said that he has been involved with the city since 1989 and lives in the area that is being talked about and this is a total surprise to me - he said it seems to be a 180 degree turn by the city council - in the past the residents in this area have been told that long term we would have sewer. He said it is unfair and he resents being treated like this. He said he took the lumps when Polaris went in. He told the residents in attendance that if the city council approved this change, he invited them to join him in a class action suit. Art Scherber, 2120 Chippewa Road, said that he has 17+ acres and the bottom line is that if they are taken out of the ultimate sewer area it deflates land value. Cathy Atkinson, 2000 Pawnee Road, said she would like to reiterate Art's comments. B. Sawochka said that the option of having sewer and water is a good one, not necessarily to develop, but the option to have it. J. Cavanaugh said that in the room there was 100+ years of land ownership who don't want to sell to the `city slickers'. Chris Sundin said that the commission has heard from the Medina residents to keep it rural, but they want to develop their land. 4 Marvin Herwig, 9410 Fox Valley, said you are saying we can't have sewer - is it then okay for my water from the mound system to run into the creek? L. Leuer said we will look at #3 as 3 separate parcels and now wanted to open this up for planning commission discussion. Jim Lane said it was a good idea to break it up for discussion. Jerry Brost said it would be helpful to show what has changed since 1992 - 2000 - 2010 - he said he has heard different things and it needs some clarification. Paul Robinson explained the changes - he said the only difference in 1992, there was a small area of commercial/industrial where the ultimate sewer line was, but the guide plan showed rural residential - he said the biggest change is the ultimate MUSA Tom Supel said if the area is zoned RR, is it possible to keep the RR zoning and have sewer. P. Robinson said no - he said the only areas in the RR zoning that have sewer are bail out situations. T. Supel said that we have tied together the sewer and the zoning - it seems like you could have large lots and still have sewer. P. Robinson said you would then create a new zoning classification. John Ferris said that the Met Council wants 3 units per acre in the sewered areas - he said the appropriate land use north of 55 should be dealt with. T. Supel said they have heard many comments tonight - sewer and water for the residents even if in the RR zone - the decision has come down to how we want to develop the land. J. Ferris said the Met Council would like to see 50-60,000 residents in Medina in the next 40 years and we would like to see about 6,000. T. Supel said there is a financial issue if sewer were brought to larger lots - he wondered how much was spent on the infrastructure to sewer a smaller portion. J. Ferris said if the planning commission does not think the area should come out of the ultimate MUSA, then recommend that to the city council and let them deal with it. Carolyn Smith, 2752 Hamel Road, city council member, said that for the record, they did a feasibility study about 2 years ago for 7 homes that had failing septic systems and to bring sewer to them would have been about $25,000 per lot. She said the sewer line has always been around the Hamel area - Foxberry - Elwell - she said what people are saying is they want sewer and water and to develop their property - she said you need 5 to think about the traffic that increased development brings - it is expensive to have more density - is that what you really want? - you cannot develop without infrastructure - she said be sure you know what you are asking for. B. Workman said that the ultimate MUSA used to go to the city limits and it has continually been moved away. P. Robinson said that the main motivation for the city council member who brought this up, was if not guided for 2020-2040 sewer, it would put up a more stringent road block to future urban development, slow down the future growth and size the pipe accordingly. R. Pederson said that as far as signals on 55, the one at Arrowhead is wasted - C. Sundin said that lots of people go north on Arrowhead/Hackamore, the county people and others. H. Pederson said that it is impossible to get onto Highway 55 in the morning. J. Cavanaugh said more density will bring more Highway 55 traffic - he said the traffic now is coming from Buffalo and Monticello where they have allowed development. Elizabeth Weir said that the 2C area seems a natural flow - keep this piece in the ultimate sewer area - it is good planning - should be in (area south of Hamel Park) Susie Mackay wanted the Elm Creek Interceptor clarified. P. Robinson said that the size of it will be what the City wants - he said that there was a committee made up of several cities that is looking at this issue. S. Mackay asked if we tell the Met Council that these areas are guided never to be sewered, then will we get a smaller pipe. P. Robinson said they would use that in their calculations. S. Mackay said if there is a smaller pipe, it is harder to change it - she said there are improvements to septic technology all the time - she said there is always newer and better ways to treat waste. She said that there has been overwhelming feed back to keep Medina rural and it has been our mandate to look at land planning - she said it has nothing to do with taking away rights. B. Workman said the biggest question is how does it affect the long term goals of the city - he said he is concerned about the time frame - we have been in the planning process for this comprehensive plan for two years and the timing is suspect for this change now. A. Scherber asked if the area north of 55 could be broke up into more than one area. 6 B. Cavanaugh said that Plymouth has lots of commercial land and there were no takers for a long time. J. Lane said he is troubled by the process. He suggested that he could move this to be tabled, go back to the city council and have a joint planning commission -city council meeting to discuss this. J. Ferris said that he has no agenda here - he thinks the planning commission should recommend to the city council to drop this idea if that is what the planning commission wants and let the city council deal with it. P. Robinson talked about the procedure. He said that ever since the city council adopted the comprehensive plan, several issues have come up at the city council level. They were purposely put aside as they came up, so that they could be dealt with all at one time. C. Smith said that nothing devious has happened with this issue that we are talking about tonight. One city council member brought it up and the majority of the council thought it best to have a public hearing on it to get both resident and planning commission input. B. Sawochka asked what prompted the city council to do this. J. Ferris explained that this was an amendment to the comp plan that we were talking about. C. Smith said once again that a council member was concerned about growth. He wanted the ultimate line moved to where it is for 2020 - the council voted on this for it to go to the planning commission for a public hearing and come back to the council for action. J. Ferris said that since he has been mayor, 2 developers have called him and none since. He told them that staff is who they talk to, that he is not interested in meeting with them. J. Lane said that he felt there was insufficient evidence to deal with this tonight. L. Leuer said it is not our chore to pass the buck. J. Lane felt we should defer this for discussion until the public hearing is closed on all the issues. J. Ferris said we should deal with it now for all the people that are here. S. Mackay asked how many sewered lots we would be talking about in this area. P. Robinson said it is hard to say, but he thought about 400-600. 7 There was further discussion on zoning and the use of the area in question. The public hearing on item #2 was closed. MOVED BY ELIZABETH WEIR AND SECONDED BY SUSIE MACKAY TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL THAT THE ULTIMATE SEWER LINE STAY AS SHOWN IN THE 2000 COMPREHENSIVE PLAN EXCEPT FOR THE HENNEPIN COUNTY PROPERTY SOUTH OF HIGHWAY 55. Jerry Brost wanted to know the rationale for taking the county property out. E. Weir said that it is self sufficient and very unlikely to ever develop. MOTION PASSED WITH JIM LANE AND BRUCE WORKMAN ABSTAINING. Item #3 - Three properties east of Willow Drive and north of Chippewa Road be re - guided from Rural Residential to Urban Commercial 1: P. Robinson explained item #3. This area has been shown in and out of the UC guiding during various phases of the comp plan. Reasons for including the acreage in the UC that may be beneficial to the city include that fact that there is commercial development to the west and the south and part of the property is located on a corner where infrastructure improvements are scheduled including the realignment of Willow Drive and Highway 55, realignment and upgrading of Chippewa Road and signals at the corner of 55 and Willow. Added commercial property will help offset the costs for the city as well as for surrounding properties. There were no public comments. P. Robinson said that one resident to the east had expressed concern, but when told buffers were being discussed for between commercial and residential then was not concerned. Paul also mentioned that the property owner of the property discussed here for the UC1 guiding had sent a letter expressing interest in that being done. MOVED BY ELIZABETH WEIR AND SECONDED BY JERRY BROST TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL THAT THE GUIDING OF THE THREE PROPERTIES EAST OF WILLOW DRIVE AND NORTH OF CHIPPEWA ROAD BE CHANGED FROM RURAL RESIDENTIAL TO URBAN COMMERCIAL 1. MOTION PASSED. The commission went back to item #1 for voting. MOVED BY TOM SUPEL AND SECONDED BY JERRY BROST TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL THAT THE SOUTHERN PORTION OF THE PROPERTY EAST 8 OF COUNTY ROAD 101 AND SOUTH OF CHERRY HILL BE RE -GUIDED FROM URBAN RESIDENTIAL TO MULTI -FAMILY RESIDENTIAL. MOTION PASSED. Item #4 - One property west of County Road 101 and south of the Cherry Hill development be re -guided from Urban Residential to Urban Commercial - approximately 1 acre: P. Robinson explained that the owner of this property would like to develop it commercially and he also owns the property to the south. Paul also explained that due to the setback that is currently required between commercial and residential (75 feet) that a commercial use of this property would likely be a better choice than keeping it residential where the setback is 10'. None of the residential properties that had been notified had responded with comments. Sandie Larson said that the commercial property owner to the west had called and when explained to them they had no problem with the proposed change. J. Brost asked if functionally UC was similar to UC1 and he was told yes. MOVED BY ELIZABETH WEIR AND SECONDED BY TOM SUPEL TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL THAT THE ONE PROPERTY DIRECTLY SOUTH OF CHERRY HILL BE RE -GUIDED FROM URBAN RESIDENTIAL TO URBAN COMMERCIAL. MOTION PASSED. Item #5 - German Liberal Cemetery, St. Peter and Paul's Catholic Cemetery, Woodridge Church, Medina City Hall, Holy Name Cemetery and Holy Name Church be re -guided from Public/Semi-Public to Rural Residential: P. Robinson explained that there were two options for this. By removing the public - semi -public zoning, it will make the zoning map less cluttered. In the rural residential zoning, cemeteries and churches are conditional use permit uses, while if left in public/ semi-public, that zoning ordinances would have to be changed to allow those uses. J. Lane mentioned that recently the German Liberal cemetery had increased it's use and platted more lots. There was discussion of current cemeteries in the city, all of which had been in the city for many years. MOVED BY JERRY BROST AND SECONDED BY JIM LANE TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL THAT THE AREAS DESIGNATED FOR PUBLIC/ SEMI-PUBLIC BE RE -GUIDED TO RURAL RESIDENTIAL 9 MOTION PASSED. Item #6 - St. Anne's Church and Cemetery be re -guided from Public/Semi-Public to Uptown Hamel: P. Robinson explained that to re -guide this to Uptown Hamel instead of residential made sense because it was in the middle of Uptown Hamel and is very much a part of the Hamel area. MOVED BY ELIZABETH WEIR AND SECONDED BY SUSIE MACKAY TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL TO RE -GUIDE ST. ANNE'S CHURCH AND CEMETERY FROM PUBLIC/SEMI-PUBLIC TO UPTOWN HAMEL. MOTION PASSED. Item #7 - A parcel north of County Road 24 and east of Parkview Drive be re - guided from Rural Residential to Agricultural Preserve: P. Robinson explained that the city council had already approved this re -zoning and this just was a housekeeping change for the comprehensive plan guiding. MOVED BY ELIZABETH WEIR AND SECONDED BY JERRY BROST THAT A PARCEL NORTH OF COUNTY ROAD 24 AND EAST OF PARKVIEW DRIVE BE RE - GUIDED FROM RURAL RESIDENTIAL TO AGRICULTURAL PRESERVE. MOTION PASSED. Lenny Leuer went back to item #2 and said that Bill Cavanaugh had requested another change. After discussion it was determined to leave as is. MOVED BY ELIZABETH WEIR AND SECONDED BY TOM SUPEL TO ADJOURN. MOTION PASSED. Meeting adjourned at 10:10 p.m. Planning and Zoning Assistant Date 10