HomeMy Public PortalAbout07-12-2005PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES — JULY 12, 2005
PRESENT: TOM CROSBY, MARILYN FORTIN, LENNY LEUER AND DOUG
DICKERSON. ALSO PRESENT; CITY PLANNER ROSE LORSUNG, CITY
ADMINISTRATOR CHAD ADAMS, PLANNING CONSULTANT SARAH
SCHIELD AND PLANNING AND ZONING ASSISTANT SANDIE LARSON
ABSENT: MARY VERBICK, TOM SUPEL AND DICK PICARD.
1. CALL TO ORDER
Acting Chair Lenny Leuer called the meeting to order at 7:07 p.m. Mr. Leuer reminded
everyone that the Planning Commission was a recommending body and the City Council made
the final decisions.
2. PUBLIC FORUM
There were no comments.
3. COMPREHENSIVE PLAN TEXT AMENDMENT TO RESTRUCTURE THE
CURRENT LAND USE POLICIES AND TIMELINE FOR DEVELOPMENT
WITHIN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN FOR THE RCH DISTRICT — PUBLIC
HEARING
Rose Lorsung went over her report to the Planning Commission. She stated that the City had
recently received a request from the City of Corcoran to extend sewer from Highway 55 in
Medina to the SW district of Corcoran. As a result there has been much discussion about the
RCH district in Medina and the potential that there would be sewer available there before 2020.
There are 14 properties that are zoned RCH. Rose pointed out on a map where Corcoran wanted
to develop.
R. Lorsung said the City would like to first respond by amending the text in our Comprehensive
Plan that refers to the development of the RCH properties. Essentially the City of Medina would
like to entertain the request and negotiate with Corcoran but does not want to follow the
aggressive development timeline and policies that our Comprehensive Plan suggests.
Tom Crosby said if he were a landowner in the NW corner of Medina, what effect would all this
have on me? What is changing, what will be different?
R. Lorsung explained that C3 would change with an amendment.
T. Crosby asked of there would be any assessments to the property owners who are not ready to
develop.
Chad Adams said that Corcoran would bear the burden of the majority of the costs. He said it
was felt wise to build the line (sewer) for future capacity in the Medina -Loretto area. He said the
financial discussion still needs to be held.
Planning Commission Minutes 1
July 12, 2005
T. Crosby asked if it was likely landowners would have assessments.
C. Adams said it is unlikely. He said even if sewer were available the developer would have to
come in for a comp. plan amendment. The other option is a Joint Powers Agreement and in the
agreement , put in `prohibits' Medina from hooking up.
Doug Dickerson asked for a realistic timeline. How long to do studies and build?
C. Adams said a lot of the engineering studies have been done by Corcoran. The Medina City
Council requested that they be done. Adams said Medina is holding up until we decide on our
Comp Plan and the text amendment. He said the work could be 1-2 years from now. A lot
depends on if Corcoran has developers willing to help fund it.
Lenny Leuer wanted to clarify if there was the possibility of Medina landowners being assessed
and then denied hooking up to the services.
C. Adams said it is the likelihood that assessments would be deferred until developed in Medina.
T. Crosby asked what legal power we have if we said no.
C. Adams said he did not think the City of Corcoran had much authority. It is our line and some
of it might have to be upsized to handle Corcoran. From an engineering perspective it could
work.
T. Crosby said he is a little puzzled to what our ultimate punch line is; would we stop the
project? Also will this affect Medina's capacity (use it up) and does it accelerate the necessity of
assessing Medina residents.
R. Lorsung said the Planning Commission is to talk about `land use policies' with the sewer
coming sooner than anticipated. We want to be able to `master plan' the area.
T. Crosby wanted to know why the RCH zone did not go all the way to the east to where the
other RCH is.
There was discussion and Lenny explained.
C. Adams told Tom that special assessments were not part of the Planning Commission
discussion,
Tom Cossette, Mayor or Corcoran, asked if assessment is the biggest issue for Medina? He said
the pipe will have the capacity for both Medina and Corcoran. He said we (Corcoran) want to
use our portion of the capacity and like Chad said it is wise to have the larger size of pipe put in
so it could handle both Medina and Corcoran.
T. Crosby asked what kind of line.
Planning Commission Minutes 2
July 12, 2005
C. Adams said part would be force main and part would be gravity.
T. Cossette said he wouldn't think Medina residents would want to pay for Corcoran.
T. Crosby asked about water.
T. Cossette said they are looking at Medina for options.
C. Adams said long term: 1. 2 sewer lines, 1 along 55 and 1 along the RR tracks, both to the
west. He said water supply is a critical issue.
T. Crosby asked the timing.
T. Cossette said they would like to start right away as long as Medina is comfortable with us not
jeopardizing with that.
Bruce Workman, Medina Mayor, said we would be very involved in the planning process for the
sewer. He said the bidding and financial concerns are not done. He said Medina's guide plan
shows RCH can develop when sewer is available and we do not want development sparked early
until we have done our planning, but we do want to work with Corcoran. He said it looks like
development in Medina would be maybe 10 years out.
The Public Hearing was opened.
Greg Ebert, owner at the SE corner of Highway 55 and County Road 19 in Medina, said the
business (gas and convenience store) have been in the family for 25 years. He said he hopes
Medina looks closely at the intersection. Greg said they have been promised turn lanes, etc. and
he thinks Medina should take an aggressive approach with the County for the intersection. He
said there are septic problems at that intersection and they have been promised help.
C. Adams said the intersection project is on schedule for either 2006 or 2007. He said the
original design for the intersection would take out a couple of the septic systems and the plan
was to bring the sewer up to help with the 4 problem areas. The design no longer will affect
these properties.
B. Workman said if there are failing systems they need the sewer.
G. Ebert said we need the turn lanes. Medina should put pressure on the County for the turn
lanes and also sewer especially for Dobo's and me.
Lenny Leuer said like Bruce Workman said, develop from the east.
Sarah Henderson, 4545 Wichita Trail, said her property goes out to Highway 55 and she has
given an easement for the power line. She wondered how the sewer was planned with the
expansion of Highway 55 and wondered if that had been addressed. She also wondered how
dense the commercial property would be, the lot size, etc.
Planning Commission Minutes 3
July 12, 2005
L. Leuer said the RCH and MUSA line (boundary) are on the north side of Lake Peter. He said
he knows there are some septic problems there. He said it does not look like provisions have
been made for sensitive systems
B. Workman said we would intend to pick them up if it is an environmental concern. He also
said there could be a lift station for the 6 homes if needed.
S. Henderson asked if she would be assessed.
R. Lorsung said not all adjacent properties would be included in the sewer line. There has to be
a formal hearing.
C. Adams said we could look at that when we do the comprehensive plan. He said there could
be assessments, connection fees, etc.
L. Leuer said `bail out' comes to mind.
C. Adams said there are no current plans to expand 55 to four lanes from where the 4 lanes stop
in Medina to Rockford. We have seen very preliminary maps. He said the focus is on the
environmental study.
S. Henderson asked how dense the RCH would be developed that is by her.
R. Lorsung said if it is developed similar to other areas, the minimum lot size in the UC zone is 1
acre and in the RCH zone is 5 acres.
Dean Johnson, business owner at 55 and 19, asked if talking about development east to west, is
that just the 55 corridor or all of Medina.
L. Leuer said the 55 corridor where there is vacant open land there now.
T. Crosby said we should be focusing on trying to craft what we are to decide (text amendment).
He said it is difficult for the planning commission to deal with this at a public hearing. He said
we should endorse some and then have Rose do the text change and then we can review it. Tom
said 1 - he was in favor of cooperating with Corcoran; 2 — endorses what the Mayor said about
not developing until we have an overall plan; 3 — whatever is done, not to force development; 4 —
no assessing then restricting hook-up; 5 — not to force the hand of the landowner.
G. Ebert said he was also a planning commissioner in the City of Corcoran and he felt that
Medina should share in the price. He said we could work jointly and Medina could open up as
they see fit.
There was further discussion and the planning commission was told not to venture into the
financial aspects, just to deal with the land use.
Planning Commission Minutes 4
July 12, 2005
R. Lorsung said this would be at the august 2nd city council meeting.
C. Aams said it depends on if the Planning Commission wants to see it again.
T. Crosby said he is comfortable if it is sent to us to look at before the council meeting on the
2nd
L. Leuer asked about C5 in the report, the frontage road.
R. Lorsung said eventually the state will close the smaller accesses to Highway 55 and that is
another reason we want to take a closer look at this for the planning.
L. Leuer said the figure in C6 was before the Elm Creek Interceptor came along.
B. Workman said we look at low water intensity in commercial development.
T. Crosby said C6 refers to before sewer come in.
D. Dickerson said this is a lot to absorb — the highway — the intersection — zoning — density. He
said we need to know a timeline.
R. Lorsung said it is not the right time to discuss most of that. We want to frame a couple
policies and tonight we are talking about a text amendment only.
T. Crosby asked what in Cl to C6 are essential that we change.
B. Workman said in fairness to landowners we need a plan. We are attempting to solve a
neighbors problem and they are trying not to make us accelerate our development.
T. Crosby said he would direct the planning staff to prepare modifications of Cl-C6 and give to
the planning commission to review and then to the city council.
Sarah Schield, planning consultant, said there are no permitted uses in the RCH district, all are
conditional uses. Without some language changes, now a landowner would need to rezone to
UC. That is why staff wanted comments from the planning commission and that we are not
ready for UC development in this area.
R. Lorsung said now development would have to adhere to the rural commercial regulations.
Elizabeth Weir, Medina council member, said we are looking for words that we are not prepared
to develop the RCH area until we redo and finalize our comprehensive plan.
L. Leuer said that the map from Corcoran involves the Loretto area.
T. Collette, said they pulled Loretto in to discuss water issues.
Planning Commission Minutes 5
July 12, 2005
L. Leuer said the map shows a line connecting the Loretto sewer pond lines to the force main. Is
Loretto involved in this financially?
C. Adams said he thought so.
B. Workman said they are not involved in the discussion for sewer. We have just been talking of
sewer for Corcoran.
D. Johnson asked what types of businesses are planned for Corcoran.
Bill , United Properties, said they have purchased Medina Electric and along Highway 55
west to Pioneer Trail, about 55 acres. He said a Business Park is planned with Industrial, mixed
use, maybe a Church. He said they are working with Corcoran on financing and said they are
looking to help this financially. He pointed out on a map where the property was that they
purchased.
D. Johnson asked if Corcoran would extend sewer to the residents near by.
T. Collette said we have guided some of the property for more density and they could hook up if
they wanted to.
The Public Hearing was closed.
4. ORDINANCE AMENDING SECTIONS OF THE CITY ORDINANCES
RELATING TO SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS THAT RELATE TO
SOILS/SEPTIC SYSTEMS — PUBLIC HEARING
Rose Lorsung went over her report to the Planning Commission. She explained that in a
subdivision process she was using an ordinance that was no longer in effect. In 1999 Section 720
of the City code of Ordinances was repealed in its entirety and in its place the MPCA standards
(7080) were adopted.
R. Lorsung said when the old ordinance was repealed, the list of suitable soils was as well, which
left the objective task of calculating suitable soils unclear. This appears to be the only issue with
adopting the State Statue as the statute leaves the task of determining suitable soils to the
individual cities. Also, there are several sections in the current Ordinance that directly and
indirectly refer to the old Ordinance with reference to the calculation of soils. Rose said that the
City attorney has created an initial list of possible amendments to various sections of the Code.
R. Lorsung said there are many sections that need amending, but the items she feels are
important include but are not limited to:
1. Deducting slopes greater than or equal to 6%
2. Deducting hardcover in the same way
3. Not locating septic systems on slopes greater than or equal to 12%.
Planning Commission Minutes 6
July 12, 2005
Rose said she recommends the planning commission review the memo from the City attorney for
discussion of possible sections to amend per the repealing of the old Section 720 with regard to
Individual Sewage Treatment Systems.
Tom Crosby asked if the soils list in the comprehensive plan was consistent with state statute.
R. Lorsung said the state 7080 does not tell what soils septic systems can be built on.
Loren Kohnen, Metro West Inspections, said there is no list in 7080, just a texture and color
chart. He said that is what the state uses and it works well.
R. Lorsung said soil borings are done where they want to place septic systems.
L. Kohnen said the 2001 list in the comprehensive plan is very accurate and the soils map from
Hennepin County is also very accurate.
T. Crosby asked how the County maps were done initially, aerial? Rose said yes.
Lenny Leuer asked Loren if he helped put the 2001 list together that was in the comp plan and
Loren said yes.
There was discussion of soils, types, etc.
R. Lorsung said this is important because we do not have a clear strict 5 acre zoning.
L. Leuer said he assumes when there is a question that is when an overlay is done on the survey
and we have them do a delineation of the good soils.
R. Lorsung said we make everyone do a wetland delineation. There are a couple of applications
coming up with plenty of good soils if we are not including 6% as `bad soils'.
There was discussion of having properties delineated further with soil borings if `good soils' are
close to the right amount.
The planning commission was polled as to whether we have the applicant do the checking of the
boundary of the soils: All agreed. They were then polled as to whether soils of 6-12% slope are
valid and they all agreed that soils greater to and equal to 6% need to be removed from the
ordinance.
There was further discussion of slopes
R. Lorsung said that all sections that refer to septic systems can reference and refer to the
adoption of the 7080 rule in our Section 720.
There was further discussion of state rules vs. city rules and that the city's can be more
restrictive.
Planning Commission Minutes 7
July 12, 2005
R. Lorsung polled the planning commission on whether all sections of the city code should refer
to 720 as adopting 7080 and they all agreed.
R. Lorsung then discussed hardcover and whether it should be deducted from the suitable soils.
She said in the RR zoning district it states to deduct the hardcover. Rose said in some instances
if that is done it would make a lot non compliant. She said in literally reading the ordinance
anything in hardcover makes lots non -conforming. She said we need a separate ordinance and
then use it in the subdivision ordinance. She said hardcover should not be used in calculation for
subdivision.
S. Schield talked of the preservation of larger lots.
L. Leuer said he does not like taking away the hardcover.
T. Crosby said what Rose is saying is that 5 acres should not include reasonable and customary
hardcover.
There was further discussion of hardcover.
R. Lorsung polled the planning commission as to whether the hardcover should be part of the
subdivision ordinance or separate and all said part of the subdivision ordinance and incorporate
reasonable and customary uses.
L. Leuer said he questioned properties that go to the center of the road.
D. Dickerson asked what the legality of it was. He said his property went to the center of the
road and he has 9+ acres without the road and wondered if that would be subdividable.
R. Lorsung told Doug that the wetlands on his property would prohibit subdividing.
T. Crosby wondered what other cities do.
L. Kohnen said in a subdivision you take the ROW anyway and the amount is excluded.
T. Crosby said we should do what the prevailing standard is in other cities.
S. Schield said we are still talking about different issues. The city wanted 5 acres minimum and
you might need 15 acres to divide.
L. Leuer said 30% of Medina is wet and there are `bail out' areas for sewer and low density.
T. Crosby said he agrees that it is virtually impossible to get 5 acres if you find the 5 acres has
not deducted for suitable hardcover.
D. Dickerson said any city has hardcover equations.
Planning Commission Minutes 8
July 12, 2005
There was further discussion of hardcover.
T. Crosby said we should find our hardcover requirements in our ordinance.
R. Lorsung asked where the soils list should be.
All agreed it should be in the subdivision ordinance
5. RON MUSICH — 2715 PIONEER TRAIL — TWO LOT SUBDIVISION — PUBLLIC
HEARING CONTINUED FROM June 14, 2005
Rose Lorsung went over her report and said the biggest update now is understanding that 6% is
no longer in existence. She said the property was RR zoned an also guided for RR. She put up a
map of the area.
Tom Crosby asked if the plat had changed since last time.
R. Lorsung said yes. She said the calculations in the report are now correct taking out the 6%.
She said the total area is 30.67 acres. New Lot 2 is 7.99 acres with 5.44 of suitable contiguous
soils and Lot 1 is 21.27 acres and has a total of 11.87 suitable soils. She said this lot is not
further dividable since there are not two sites that have 5 acres of contiguous good soils.
R. Lorsung said the wetlands have been delineated. She said the drainage issues have been
discussed with the property owner to the east and the Public works Director has met with both
property owners. Rose said the subdivision ordinance does talk about best management practices
and the City will work with both property owners to help take care of the drainage issues.
R. Lorsung talked of the two accessory structures on the property; one a barn and a loafing shed.
The loafing shed is too close to the property line for an animal structure and city records do not
show that a building permit was issued for the loafing shed. Lot lines may have to be rearranged
to meet the 150' setback or the shed moved.
There was further discussion of existing conditions, drainage, trails, etc.
T. Crosby asked Mr. Musich if he had any objections to the 9 conditions in the staff report and
he said he had not seen them.
T. Crosby said last topic: Deducting city ROW and how about trails.
R. Lorsung said it can be done 2 ways. The City takes easements and does not deduct or takes
ROW and deducts it.
T. Crosby said we need to deal with it — hardcover and calculations.
There was further discussion of trails and road ROW.
Planning Commission Minutes 9
July 12, 2005
Planning Commission and staff went thru the 9 conditions.
R. Musich said he had an issue with #6. He said it was never a problem on my lot until the
neighbor put in a swale and now it comes to my side.
R. Lorsung said the City was working with both property owners on the problem.
T. Crosby and L. Leuer said the property owners should work with Jim Dillman before this goes
to the City Council.
Item #3 to be removed as there is no setback requirement for fences.
R. Lorsung said the City is moving forward with this (buffer strips around wetlands). She said
an ordinance will be drafted and that the 16.5' buffer strip comes from the Minnehaha Creek
Watershed for lower class of wetlands for `a no disturb area'
T. Crosby said he knows we can regulate this but do other cities do it?
R. Lorsung said there is nothing in the subdivision ordinance or residential zoning districts that
require the buffers.
There was further discussion of buffers.
T. Crosby said until there is a city wide ordinance we shouldn't do `spot' buffers.
Both Tom Crosby and Lenny Leuer said there should be an ordinance before we implement any
buffers.
T. Crosby said we should amend #9 to have the applicant agree to comply with a city ordinance
on buffers when and if one is passed.
Doug Dickerson, as a resident, said on the water issue, he did not have a problem until Ron built
his barn, driveway, etc. He requested that a study be done on the water impacting his property.
There was further discussion on the water issue.
MOVED BY TOM CROSBY AND SECONDED BY MARILYN FORTIN TO RECOMMEND
APPROVAL OF THE PRELIMINARYPLAT FOR A TWO LOT SUBDIVISION AT 2715
PIONEER TRAIL SUBJECT TO THE FOLLOWING 8 CONDITIONS;
1. The applicant must revise the preliminary plat to provide the right of way for Pioneer
Trail
2. The applicant must revise the preliminary plat to provide the right of way for the City
trail
3. The applicant shall comply with the setback requirements for horse accessory structures.
Planning Commission Minutes 10
July 12, 2005
4. The applicant shall obtain a building permit for the accessory structure if the dimensions
are greater than or equal to 120 square feet and/or is on a permanent foundation.
5. Applicant to meet with neighbor and the City's Public Works Director to reach a solution
acceptable to the 3 of them before this goes to the city council.
6. Revise the plat to show a 10' drainage and utility easement for the front and 5' drainage
and utility easement on the sides and rear of each lot.
7. Revise the plat to show the FEMA Zone A floodplain information within the pertinent
drainage easements for Lot 1.
8. It is recommended that the property be subjected to buffer strips, implemented by City
Ordinance, in the next 24 months.
MOTION PASSED.
6. MINUTES OF JUNE 14, 2005
Grammatical and spelling changes were corrected.
MOVED BY MARILYN FORTIN AND SECONDED BY DOUG DICKERSON TO
APPROVE THE MINUTES AS CORRECTED.
MOTION PASSED.
7. PLANNER'S REPORT
Rose Lorsung went over the last city council meeting. She then went over items for the next city
council meeting.
Lenny Leuer asked about the Landfill item at the next meeting. There was some discussion
about the landfill.
MOVED BY TOM CROSBY AND SECONDED BY DOUG DICKERSON TO ADJOURN.
MOTION PASSED.
Meeting adjourned at 11 p.m.
Planning and Zoning Assistant Date
Planning Commission Minutes 1 1
July 12, 2005