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HomeMy Public PortalAboutVerbatim Record of Zoning Meeting of June 26, 2012.tif1 1 2 3 4 5 6 VILLAGE OF KEY BISCAYNE 7 8 ZONING MEETING 9 10 11 12 111 13 560 CRANDON BOULEVARD REAR OF FIRE RESCUE STATION 14 KEY BISCAYNE, FLORIDA 33149 TUESDAY, JUNE 26, 2012 15 7:00 p.m. - 11:25 p.m. 16 17 18 19 20 "`Pn ' CW[1 / A14' 21 22 Taken before Mary G. Stephenson, FPR, Notary 23 Public for the State of Florida 24 • 25 TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 2 so 1 APPEARANCES: 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 0 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 5 25 COUNCILMEMBERS: FRANKLIN CAPLAN, MAYOR MICHAEL E. KELLY, VICE MAYOR MICHAEL W. DAVEY ENRIQUE GARCIA ROBERT M. GUSMAN MAYRA P. LINDSAY JAMES TAINTOR VILLAGE MANAGER: JOHN C. GILBERT EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT TO VILLAGE MANAGER: JENNIFER DUQUE VILLAGE ATTORNEY: WEISS SEROTA HELFMAN PASTORIZA COLE & BONISKE, P.A. BY: STEPHEN J. HELFMAN, ESQ. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 3 1 Thereupon, the following proceedings were had: 2 MS. DUQUE: Good evening, ladies and 3 gentlemen. The mayor has called the meeting to 4 order. 5 Mayor Caplan. 6 MAYOR CAPLAN: Here. 7 MS. DUQUE: Councilmember Davey. 8 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Here. 9 MS. DUQUE: Councilmember Garcia. 10 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: Here. 11 MS. DUQUE: Councilmember Gusman. 12 10 13 14 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: Here. MS. DUQUE: Vice Mayor Kelly. VICE MAYOR KELLY: Here. 15 MS. DUQUE: Councilmember Lindsay. 16 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Here. 17 MS. DUQUE: Councilmember Taintor. 18 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Here. 19 20 21 22 23 24 III 25 MS. DUQUE: Please rise for the pledge of allegiance. (Thereupon, the pledge of allegiance was recited.) MS. DUQUE: First item on the agenda, Mr. Mayor, is brief comments by council. MAYOR CAPLAN: I think what we will do -- TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 good evening, first of all, everyone. What we will do assuming, expecting that representatives of the Silver Sands will want to be heard, if it's okay, we will move whatever you want to say, your presentation before the first reading. MR. CUEVAS: You prefer to do that now or 8 before the ordinance? 9 MAYOR CAPLAN: Then. I think it will be 10 11 12 110 13 14 15 16 17 18 more efficient and we will be able to manage the meeting in a more organized way. That is okay? MR. CUEVAS: Yeah. MAYOR CAPLAN: Is Mayor Bermudez from Doral not here? Okay. Anything? Any comments? Did you want a brief report on -- 19 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Yes, I would like a 20 brief report on the status of the school, the MAST 21 Academy proposition. 22 MAYOR CAPLAN: So today we had our second 23 24 • 25 meeting with representatives of the school district. Very briefly, the point of which was to TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 5 1 view a second draft of the ILA. We did so. We 2 had substantial comments on the first draft that 3 resulted in a much more evolved product. Evolved 4 5 6 7 8 in the sense of programming curriculum, some of the operational details that were absent in the first draft. We are still a distance apart on financing this. Most of our meeting today addressed that 9 important issue. We made a lot of progress on 10 some points. We agreed on a methodology to try to 11 build a bridge or to get to a resolution on some 12 other points. 111 13 It's kind of a long story as to what they 14 are. I will just tell you my own view is that the 15 third draft, which we are expecting to see 16 tomorrow, is going to be probably pretty nearly 17 complete in most respects but for the financing, 18 and on the financing, we probably have solved four 19 out of five or six issues, I think. I have to do 20 a little bit of legal research. Counsel has to do 21 a little bit of research because we were told 22 today something that has constitutional import, 23 that, frankly, we just couldn't relate to or 24 understand. So we will do a little independent • 25 review so that we are better prepared to either TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 1 2 3 6 refute or accommodate to whatever they think is an issue constitutionally. We have about a week to get this done. We 4 think we are on target. Although it's a 5 6 7 complicated document, we have to get it right. So we are spending all the time that is needed between now and next Tuesday to do this. 8 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Mayor, will we need 9 a special meeting to address this? 10 MAYOR CAPLAN: As it stands right now, 11 12 5 13 probably no, but if our timeline slips at all, the answer will be certainly yes. And I am aware of Councilmember Davey's 14 travel plans. We will need to accommodate to your 15 schedule, particularly on the financing ordinance, 16 so we have it. It's on the calendar. 17 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Thank you. 18 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Where is the 19 councilman going? Hawaii? 20 MAYOR CAPLAN: It's none of the 21 councilman's business. 22 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: Vegas. 23 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Vegas? No. We are 24 going to Ireland. 5 25 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Mr. Mayor, I think TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 7 0 0 1 you also had some discussions with the parents of 2 the MAST Academy; is that correct? How did that 3 go after? 4 MAYOR CAPLAN: Yeah. We had the so-called 5 505 occurred last Wednesday. It was 504 because 6 one of the MAST's constituents didn't come. 7 The long and the short of it, it was a long 8 meeting, much of it was spent by the MAST parents 9 talking about things that had nothing to do with 10 this. This was a lot about past grievances, and 11 we sat respectfully and listened. It was helpful 12 to hear some of the background dynamics that led 13 to some of this rancor, but it really had nothing 14 to do with us; most of it. When it came time to 15 actually move forward, we reached some consensus 16 points, specially with one important principle, 17 which has to do with the establishment of the 18 Cambridge Academy at the school, at the MAST, as 19 an alternative curriculum, alternative program. 20 And this is to be worked out, but the long and the 21 short of it is that those kids that are oriented 22 towards the MAST curriculum as it has existed all 23 these years, that will continue. For those kids 24 that opt for a, to be determined, broader, more • 25 liberal arts, whatever the content of it consists TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 8 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 of, and there is a lot of flexibility in determining what it will be, they will have that option. That latter option is something that is recognized internationally or similar to the international baccalaureate program for academic 7 credit. It also confers AP credit and it's a 8 separate certification upon graduation. 9 So that, to me, was something that we had 10 hoped to bring into the dialogue anyway. We were 11 reluctant to do so early on because there was a 12 lot of threshold to cross and anger to overcome, 111 13 but that is now part of our program. That is in 14 the interlocal agreement. 15 The long and short of it, it was positive. 16 I think not every single MAST parent is feeling 17 better. Some aren't, but it was a good meeting. 18 Okay? 19 MS. DUQUE: Next item, under special 20 presentations, Mr. George Herrera, audit partner 21 with Marcum LLP will be presenting the 2011 22 comprehensive annual financial report. 23 Unfortunately, Mr. Michael Futterman will 24 not be presenting. 110 25 MR. HERRERA: Good evening, Honorable Mayor TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 9 1 and members of the city council, village council, 2 excuse me. My name is George Herrera. I am the 3 audit partner with Marcum as well as partner, 4 Mr. Fierman (phonetic). Here with me is Allen 5 Fierman. He was the manager as well. 6 We are here to provide a brief presentation 7 of the comprehensive annual financial report for 8 the year ended September 30, 2011. We refer to it 9 10 11 12 II 13 14 as the CAFR to move along. I would like to go ahead and get started. The CAFR, first section will be introductory section. If I can have you go to that section, I just want to highlight Roman numeral five even though the pages aren't marked 15 as such. It's the certificate of achievement and 16 excellence in financial reporting. That is 17 provided by the Government Finance Officer's 18 Association. This is a procedures award given to, 19 sort of a CAFR kind of thing, presented. The 20 village will submit their 2011 CAFR for this 21 award. We feel comfortable that they will receive 22 that award of 2011 as well. 23 Moving on the following pages, the 24 financial section, you get to the independent III 25 auditing report, which is my report. I just want TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 10 1 to highlight the first three paragraphs of our 2 report. The first paragraph states what we did. 3 We audited the financial statements of the village 4 for the year ended September 30, 2011. The second 5 paragraph basically states what standards, 6 generally accepted auditing standards and 7 governmental auditing standards as required. The 8 9 10 11 third paragraph, the most important paragraph, is our opinion paragraph where we are stating that the financial statements are fairly presented in all material respects conforming with generally 12 accepted accounting principles. In other words, 5 13 14 15 this is what we call an unqualified or clean opinion, which is what the village wants to hear. Moving on the next few pages -- 16 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: I have one question 17 about something. 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 5 25 In the second paragraph, there is a line -- well, there is a line that audit includes consideration of internal control of the financial report as the basis, but not for the purposes of expressing an opinion of the effectiveness of the village's internal control over financial reporting. I know you mentioned this before, but can you just explain again why you say, accordingly, TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 11 I) 1 we express no such opinion. 2 MR. HERRERA: Right. Because we consider 3 4 5 6 in your control as it relates to the financial reporting aspect, but we did not do an audit of internal control where we would test the effectiveness of those controls and issue a 7 separate opinion. So we look at internal controls 8 as part of the progress in auditing the actual 9 financial statements, but did not perform a 10 specific audit of internal controls. 11 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Would we need if we 12 wanted to look at that, would we need to actually II 13 have a specific audit done? 14 MR. HERRERA: Yes. It would be separate. 15 Yes, sir. 16 Moving on to the next section, which is the 17 management section and analysis section, briefly. 18 If you don't read anything else in this CAFR, 19 please read this section. The section basically 20 highlights the activity for the year, information 21 from the prior year. These are comparisons. 22 Discusses major variances. Very informative in 23 24 II 25 terms of explaining what has occurred during the year. I will let him continue on. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 o 12 1 MR. FIERMAN: If you look at page 11, pages 2 11 through 20, this is the basic financial 3 statements. This section includes the government 4 5 6 7 8 wide statement of assets as well as statement of activities as well as the fund financial statements for the governmental funds, the enterprise funds, as well as the fiduciary fund. Now, pages 21 through 56, this is the notes 9 to the financial statements. This section 10 11 12 13 14 basically includes required disclosures that provide additional information about the village as well as the numbers that are included in those basic financial statements. Now going to the back to pages 81 through 15 85, this is the compliance section. This section 16 basically includes required reports that are 17 required under government auditing standards as 18 well as the auditor general of the State of 19 Florida. Within this section, the only thing we 20 would like to highlight is that we are pleased to 21 report that we did not identify any significant 22 deficiencies of material weakness in internal 23 control, nor do I testify to any instances of 24 non -noncompliance. 11 25 I also provided to you when you received TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 13 p 1 the CAFR was the communications letter. This 2 letter is required under statement of auditing 3 standards 114. We call it SAS 114 letter for 4 short. This is basically required communications 5 that we are required to communicate to you based 6 on the auditing standards, and one thing I would 7 like to point out within here is on page 30 that 8 we did not encounter any difficulties in 9 performing our audit, nor did we have 10 disagreements with management. 11 VICE MAYOR KELLY: Can I ask you a question 12 about that? 111 13 MR. FIERMAN: Sure. 14 VICE MAYOR KELLY: I think it was three 15 years ago you did note that there was some 16 problems with -- 17 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Yeah. 18 VICE MAYOR KELLY: I forget the phrase you 19 used; the deficiencies in internal control over 20 financial reporting, material weaknesses. And 21 22 23 24 II 25 since that audit, we haven't heard those phrases any more. So given the awards and your review, would you say that the problems which resulted in those comments three years ago have been sufficiently TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 o 1 2 3 14 corrected and we, as a body, can be confident that our bookkeepers are doing a good job in that sense? 4 MR. FIERMAN: Yeah. Based on the last -- I 5 6 7 8 think it has been the last two or three, last two years now, we didn't come up with any of those issues that we came up with I think was back in 2008 that we came up with, and everything has been 9 much cleaner. So, yeah. 10 VICE MAYOR KELLY: Great. 11 MR. FIERMAN: Just as a conclusion, I want 12 I) 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 to thank John and Bea and Lily and the entire village staff for, you know, their cooperation and assistance throughout the entire process, and also like to welcome Vivian to the village as well. Thank you. MAYOR CAPLAN: Thank you. MR. HERRERA: Thank you. MS. DUQUE: The next item under the consent 20 agenda is a capital project authorizing resolution 21 of the village council of the Village of Key 22 Biscayne, authorizing the purchase of first 23 responder training and equipment, including 24 funding for overtime, course instructor and 111 25 supplies, approving the interlocal agreement for TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 15 p 1 2 3 4 5 joint completion of an urban areas security initiative program between the City of Miami and the Village of Key Biscayne for the purpose of carrying out FY2010 urban areas security initiative program objectives. 6 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: Move. 7 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Second. 8 9 10 11 MAYOR CAPLAN: On consent with help if we ever need it. Jim. COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: I have one 12 question. I noticed in the resolution that it ID 13 includes funding for overtime in regards to this 14 additional training. Is that overtime payment 15 applied to the overtime that is shown in the 2012/ 16 2013 budget? 17 MR. GILBERT: I believe that the training 18 overtime will reflect that the way the two line 19 items are broken down, and then we will be 20 reimbursed sometime later on. This won't come 21 right away. It takes a lot for the bureaucracy to 22 work, but that pending fund will be reimbursed, 23 24 11 25 the amount of money that we used for the overtime. you. COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: All right. Thank TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 16 o 1 MAYOR CAPLAN: Okay. Second the motion. 2 On consent all in favor. 3 (All councilmembers responded aye.) 4 MAYOR CAPLAN: Opposed. 5 MS. DUQUE: Motion carries. 6 7 8 9 Next item on the agenda is approval/ deferrals/additions/deletions/substitution/ withdrawals. MAYOR CAPLAN: Anybody? 10 No? 11 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: What are you doing? 12 MS. DUQUE: Next item on the agenda is the II 13 approval of the minutes of the June 12th minutes. 14 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: Move. 15 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Second. 16 MAYOR CAPLAN: Anybody? Comments? 17 All in favor. 18 (All councilmembers except Councilmember 19 Taintor responded aye.) 20 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: I didn't attend the 21 meeting. 22 MS. DUQUE: Motion carries. 23 24 10 25 MAYOR CAPLAN: So we should pass the hat and send you to Ireland. COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Where are you going TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 17 I) 1 to go next year? 2 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Hey, keep going. 3 MS. DUQUE: The next item on the agenda is 4 the building, zoning and planning hearing number 5 SP -20. The applicants, Real Equity Assets and 6 Consolidators, LLC, located on 101 Sunrise Drive, 7 is requesting approval of a site plan for an 11 8 unit apartment building. 9 Mayor, if I may, any participants speaking 10 in the hearing if they can be sworn in. 11 MAYOR CAPLAN: Yes. 12 MS. DUQUE: Please stand and raise your 11 13 right hand. 14 Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole 15 truth and nothing but the truth so help you God? 16 (Witnesses in the audience responded yes.) 17 MR. KURLANCHEEK: Good evening, mayor and 18 council. 19 MAYOR CAPLAN: Good evening, Jud. 20 MR. KURLANCHEEK: This is a public hearing 21 for site plan approval for an 11 unit condominium 22 apartment building at 101 Sunrise Drive. 23 Some of you may recall that this site was 24 before you a few years ago for approximately the 10 25 same amount of units. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 18 o 1 The site plan review criteria are the 2 criteria which staff and the council are required 3 to evaluate the project. I have evaluated that. 4 I have submitted to you a report. It is in the 5 6 7 8 record, and we have determined that it meets all of the review criteria. However, we are recommending that there are three conditions that go along with the approval 9 and part of the record. That is, the dumpster 10 shall be constructed of concrete block and stucco. 11 VICE MAYOR KELLY: Shouldn't that be 12 dumpster enclosure? 11 13 MR. KURLANCHEEK: Well, there is the 14 dumpster enclosure that is concrete block and 15 stucco, and then we go on to say the material for 16 gate would be metal. 17 VICE MAYOR KELLY: No. What I am saying, 18 resolution one, instead of the dumpster shall be 19 constructed. I don't think you are going to make 20 a dumpster out of concrete block and stucco. 21 MR. KURLANCHEEK: Right. 22 VICE MAYOR KELLY: So it should say 23 dumpster enclosure. 24 MR. KURLANCHEEK: To be more accurate, yes, 10 25 sir. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 19 I I 1 And that the Building, Zoning and Planning 2 Director shall approve the design of the aluminum 3 picket fence which surrounds the property, the 4 sliding gates at the entrance to the garage and 5 the dumpster enclosure itself. 6 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Why is that? 7 MR. KURLANCHEEK: We have seen in some of 8 these improvements, not these well -designed, 9 constructed as they should be. 10 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Don't we have 11 standards in our zoning code? 12 MR. KURLANCHEEK: We do not have design 13 standards. 14 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: No, no, not design 15 standards. Don't we have standards for what has 16 to go around? 17 MR. KURLANCHEEK: Well, we have the Florida 18 Building Code, but it doesn't go to the design of 19 the metal gate, what it appears to look like, 20 those sorts of things. 21 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: I guess this is where 22 I start getting into are we going to decide what 23 people put on their homes. You know, if people 24 complain about the Khouri building next door, are • 25 we going to start doing those sort of things? TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 20 o 1 2 3 4 5 MR. KURLANCHEEK: Not on single family homes, certainly not. COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Or on commercial property. MR. KURLANCHEEK: On multiple family 6 buildings, we look at this all the way from the 7 Consultatio project, every other set of plans we 8 have, because the appearance of the property, just 9 to make sure that from the public side they use 10 the higher condensed materials. 11 MAYOR CAPLAN: Some of these decisions or 12 I) 13 14 recommendations are about compatibility of materials. MR. KURLANCHEEK: Exactly. 15 MAYOR CAPLAN: Not controversial plan 16 designs. 17 MR. KURLANCHEEK: For example, this is CBS 18 modern building, and you can see to put a wood 19 fence would be completely out of touch with the 20 design. 21 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: But isn't that up to 22 the person making the design? 23 24 III 25 MR. KURLANCHEEK: Not really. Under site plan review, there is limited design review that we do have. As the mayor pointed out, that is TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 Ili 1 2 21 compatibility of building materials with the main building itself and the accessory structures. 3 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Jud, why do they 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 IP 13 14 15 have in the -- the dumpster is basically in front of the building when usually I think most dumpsters are found in the back of the building mainly because not only aesthetics, but also odors, I guess. MR. KURLANCHEEK: I think it had to do with access how you get a truck underneath the building or the side of the building if you put it way in the back, and then, of course, if it's way in the back, you are closer to the adjoining properties at the rear of the structure. These are commercially use serviced and 16 they are normally taken care of. I mean, that is 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 III 25 one of the other reasons why we want to get involved with this whole site. COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Well, I notice it also had a reflective pool. I am trying to interpret how deep it was. I think it's like a foot and a half. MR. KURLANCHEEK: Yes. COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Is that pool closed with a fence? I mean you talked about a fence. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 22 so 1 MR. KURLANCHEEK: I think there is a 2 3 4 Florida building code requirement that if it's 30 inches or so or two and a half feet, one or the other, then you have to have the surrounding 5 fence, self-locking, self -closing gate. But that 6 is something we will get detailed with the 7 building permit. That is not meant for a swimming 8 pool. It's just a decorative. 9 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: I know, but I would 10 be concerned about a small child. 11 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Uh-huh. 12 MR. KURLANCHEEK: We would also. We would 5 13 also. 14 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Jud, what is the 15 total built area in the building as it stands 16 today? 17 MR. KURLANCHEEK: I don't have the -- let 18 me see. 19 VICE MAYOR KELLY: This says 22,000 square 20 feet. 21 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: No, that is the new 22 building. 23 MR. KURLANCHEEK: You are asking for the 24 square footage of the building itself? 25 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: That exists, yes. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 23 1 MR. KURLANCHEEK: All I have is that is a 2 22 unit building. I don't have the square 3 4 5 6 7 8 footages because we don't have the plans for the existing building. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: I want to know what the scale is compared to what is there currently. I understand they are putting 11 units, but I still want to know whether it's actually bigger. 9 MAYOR CAPLAN: Did the FAR go up or down? 10 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Exactly. 11 MR. KURLANCHEEK: I can't definitively tell 12 you that the FAR went down, but I know that our III 13 FAR numbers are lower than the county's. 14 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: That is not what 15 I'm asking. 16 MR. KURLANCHEEK: I know. I don't have the 17 square footage for the building because we don't 18 have the plans for the building. They don't 19 exist. 20 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Did they survey the 21 property ever? 22 MR. KURLANCHEEK: We have a survey which 23 tells you the property dimensions and the 24 footprint, but there is no -- almost all the 5 25 buildings east of Crandon Boulevard and many of TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 24 1 2 3 4 5 the -- and all the Mackles, the county did not give us those plans when the village incorporated, and they have several excuses for that, but we do not have plans for any building east of Collins. I can't tell you the square footage. 6 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: It was not because 7 they had a fire or a flood that destroyed? 8 MR. KURLANCHEEK: It has been alleged that 9 there has been a fire, flood, and whatever else. 10 I don't know if they have insurance for that. 11 12 5 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 5 25 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: The new would be compared to the old one. COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: It can't be in excess of what our code -- COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: It's not in excess of the code. I think you are just trying to compare. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: I am just trying to compare. COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: Blocking the building. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Yes. COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: I mean, you probably kind of guess. What is the biggest unit that is in there? TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 25 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Eighteen hundred square feet. MR. KURLANCHEEK: No. I think under the new construction -- COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: That is the old construction. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: It's mostly one bedrooms. MR. KURLANCHEEK: Councilman, the architect has told me he has some of the information you are looking for. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Okay. I'll ask 111 13 him. 14 MR. KURLANCHEEK: He will be giving a 15 presentation next. 16 MAYOR CAPLAN: The one thing, it was built 17 under the county, and the county's FAR is higher 18 than ours. 19 MR. KURLANCHEEK: Right. So it is going to 20 be less floor area, but that is assuming -- 21 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: And it was done a 22 long time ago. So it's not necessarily that they 23 maximized FAR when they built it. It wasn't 24 always, just like the Sonesta had a much smaller IP 25 FAR than was allowable on the property. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 26 0 1 MR. KURLANCHEEK: The third and last 2 condition that we had is that there are 14 coconut 3 trees and two gumbo limbo trees. We are 4 5 6 recommending that those be preserved and reused on the property. That concludes the report. Thank you very 7 much. 8 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Jud, can you answer 9 a few other questions? 10 MR. KURLANCHEEK: Sure. 11 12 • 13 14 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Is the building sprinkled? MR. KURLANCHEEK: It will be. No. I'm sorry. It's apartments. It won't be. It will be 15 hardwired. 16 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: No, no. Automatic 17 fire sprinkler system in this building. 18 MR. KURLANCHEEK: What the Florida building 19 code requires -- we don't get into those kind of 20 details in this level, but if the Florida building 21 code requires it, we will require it. 22 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: I mean, the 23 24 • 25 analysis says it meets all the fire related fire safety codes. MR. KURLANCHEEK: It will be. It will be. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 27 1 We are site plan review. We don't get mechanical 2 3 4 sheets because there would be no point to get that should you deny it. COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: The chief is here. I 5 can have the fire marshall address the issue. 6 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Actually, can I ask 7 8 9 10 11 one question because I think it is going to be related and he may have to answer that as well. For electrical loads, my understanding is the new construction is using a lot more electrical load than prior construction. Is 12 there -- are they -- are the people doing the new 5 13 construction responsible for putting their own 14 transformers in? Is that being monitored? I 15 would think this is part of fire safety. I don't 16 know. Or is this a rethinking that FPL should 17 handle it and it's just being overlooked? 18 MR. KURLANCHEEK: They are responsible for 19 making sure they can service the needs of the 20 building. So whatever FPL is going to require to 21 do that, they are going to be required. 22 I don't know if the premise of your 23 24 111 25 question is accurate, if they are going to use more electricity. I don't know that, but these are all detailed questions that come out during TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 28 1 building permit, never at site plan. They have to 2 meet FPL's requirements. They have to meet WASD 3 requirements, and every other agency that reviews 4 this. 5 6 7 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Will you look into that, please? MR. KURLANCHEEK: Sure. 8 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Jud, also, another 9 question for you. They only have 17 parking 10 spaces according to the document, and they are 11 going do 30 with the new building. These units 12 are obviously considerably larger because there 10 13 are less of them. They are 1800 square feet you 14 have for each and every one of them. If you were 15 to divide the number of units by the parking 16 spaces, it's less than three per unit. You know, 17 I would suspect that these bigger units, you may 18 have more occupants. Is less than three parking 19 spaces per unit sufficient to handle the traffic 20 that this is going to derive. 21 MR. KURLANCHEEK: Our zoning code requires 22 one and a half spaces per unit. 23 24 1110 25 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: I realize that. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: That needs to be readdressed. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 29 I 1 MR. KURLANCHEEK: It may not be that you 2 are going to have two adults and children 3 occupying this unit with cars, but generally it 4 balances out. I think this requirement of three 5 per unit is certainly one of the highest we have. 6 This should not create a problem. Most of these 7 8 9 10 11 units are not going to be occupied all year round. Even if they were, it would be unlikely that we would have all three parking spaces occupied at the same time. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: I actually want to 12 thank the architect who provided these documents 1) 13 because they were incredibly clear and very 14 helpful. So thank you very much. You put a lot 15 of effort into it. We very much appreciate that. 16 Jud, I have a question about Miami -Dade 17 County Public School application. It states that 18 in the approval or the nonimpact, it states that 19 there is no impact because they are downsizing 20 from approximately 20 units to 11 units, but isn't 21 the reality we have 11 large units? The chance is 22 there are going to be more children. How is that 23 captured? 24 MR. KURLANCHEEK: They look at a variety of 1111 25 factors as we do, looking at the average family TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 30 I 1 2 3 size, which is about 2.4 something, I believe. But, essentially, their standard is the same as our standard, the urban density. 4 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: How are we 5 documenting that? I just found that having lived 6 in the Commodore Club and a couple of other condos 7 where it has changed so dramatically. I'm 8 concerned about how that is reported and whether 9 it's our responsibility to report more accurately 10 given the change in our demographics. 11 MR. KURLANCHEEK: We don't have anything 12 110 13 14 15 16 17 18 more accurate than the census track that we have on the village. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Okay, and is that how we use? MR. KURLANCHEEK: That is how everybody uses it, yes. MAYOR CAPLAN: I think you are raising a 19 large point. We don't track it. 20 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: We don't. 21 MAYOR CAPLAN: I think we have come to 22 23 24 110 25 realize that population growth is something different than unit count, and maybe we should find a way to attend to this question you are raising in a more systematic way. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 31 I 1 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Specially when you 2 are determining impact. 3 MAYOR CAPLAN: Right. 4 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: I mean, this isn't 5 about limiting what can be built. This is 6 actually about determining the impact. 7 MR. KURLANCHEEK: It's also very difficult 8 because the units are sold and rented. 9 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Everything is 10 difficult, but we can do our best. 11 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: I look at it a 12 little bit differently. This has currently -- it • 13 didn't tell you how many one bedroom units it had. 14 It said it had both one and two. The new building 15 is going to have 11 three bedroom units. So there 16 is 33 bedrooms compared to perhaps 20 or 25. I 17 don't know how many two bedrooms they have now. 18 So the bedroom count is going up. I thought it 19 was interesting it says the current building 20 contains 22 units, but the plan says it has 20 21 units. 22 MAYOR CAPLAN: Yeah. There is a 23 discrepancy. 24 VICE MAYOR KELLY: I heard two phrases that 111 25 I disagree with. One is that these units won't be TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 32 I) 1 occupied full time. That is not the history of 2 3 4 5 what is going on in the multifamily homes, and the second being that there will be an average of 2.1 members in these units. That is a joke. MR. KURLANCHEEK: I said the census bureau 6 has an average family size. I don't know how many 7 people are going to be living in the building. 8 VICE MAYOR KELLY: It doesn't apply. It 9 10 11 12 5 13 doesn't apply here, and neither one of those things apply, and this is going to add more people, and more children to the Village of Key Biscayne making our situation worse. COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: But you also have to 14 go to by what the census tells us. I don't think 15 we can guess. I have seen a lot of numbers fly 16 out there. I want to know what that number is. 17 If Dade County schools is telling me it's one 18 eleven, then that is what I am going to go by. 19 I think we need to find out the exact 20 instead of guessing. I think it's real important, 21 so we don't have these innuendos flying around. 22 23 24 5 25 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 2.82. COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: There is another number. MAYOR CAPLAN: I don't know that they have TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 33 1 a number. We had this conversation today. They 2 measure projected population increase on the basis 3 of a calculation per unit. That is it. 4 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: That is why the 5 schools are overcrowded by 130 and 140 percent. I 6 mean, we need to deal with it. 7 MAYOR CAPLAN: We need to deal with it, but 8 we can't deal with it by looking to the school 9 district to provide information that they don't 10 keep. 11 MR. KURLANCHEEK: There is nobody keeping 12 track of the number of people living in these 5 13 units. Perhaps maybe we can use the condominiums 14 to have that information, but we certainly don't 15 have that. 16 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: The condo 17 associations would have it. 18 MR. KURLANCHEEK: They probably would. I 19 can say because in the building where I reside in 20 there's 17 units, and at no time are there more 21 than eight or nine units occupied. 22 MAYOR CAPLAN: What we do know is if we 23 build it, they will come. 24 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Yes, and it's clear 5 25 that these condo units are no longer occupied TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 34 p 1 solely by snowbirds. A lot of the younger 2 3 4 families have figured out they can rent one of these condominium units cheaper than it is to buy a house on the Key and still have all the 5 advantages of living on the Key. You can't blame 6 them. That is reality that these condominium 7 units are being filled by not husband and wives 8 but husband and wives and children. That is what 9 I think is a concern of the village that we are 10 going to discuss later on tonight. 11 MAYOR CAPLAN: Are these intended to be 12 condos or are these intended for rental? 14 15 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Why don't we let them come up and present. MR. KURLANCHEEK: I only give you a report 16 based upon the site plan review criteria. With 17 all these points having concern, I can only go by 18 the criteria. 19 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: And I appreciate 20 that. I just think we need to address how we are 21 addressing. 22 MR. KURLANCHEEK: Thank you. 23 24 11 25 MAYOR CAPLAN: Gentlemen. Welcome. MR. PECCHIO: Good afternoon. My name is Rafael Pecchio. I live at 251 Crandon, Unit 322. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 35 II 1 Good evening, Mayor Caplan, Vice Mayor 2 Kelly, councilmembers, staff members, fellow 3 residents. We are here to present -- 4 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: You can put that 5 podium up. There is a button. Because you look 6 7 8 quite uncomfortable there. There is a button there on the side. MR. PECCHIO: Thank you. We are here to 9 present our project that you already talked about, 10 and our architect, Gabriel Lopez, he's going to 11 have a presentation for you. So after that, maybe 12 we can talk a little bit more about it. 11 13 io MAYOR CAPLAN: Thank you. 14 MR. LOPEZ: My name is Gabriel Lopez at 15 7400 Southwest 141 Terrace. 16 This is the site that is covered. These 17 are the neighbors; the one in the east, and the 18 one in the north. We address those sides with 19 facade to be contextual with those kind of 20 openings in windows. This is east and west. This 21 is our site plan. 22 You were asking about -- 23 MAYOR CAPLAN: Help is on the way. 24 MR. LOPEZ: You were asking about this 25 pool. We were planning to have glass right in TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 36 o 1 there so nobody would fall and is only one foot 2 deep. 3 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Is that a 4 cantilevered roof covering? 5 MR. LOPEZ: Yes. You will be able to see 6 it in one of the views. 7 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: It's pretty doggone 8 long. I was questioning just how that might do in 9 a hurricane with a flex. 10 MR. LOPEZ: Well, we do have to comply with 11 all the structural codes, and, I mean, we are 12 going to try. This is basically to give some 11 13 sense of entrance to the building. If somebody 14 walk here, it doesn't block anything, but just the 15 view like a welcome thing. 16 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Is that an ADA 17 ramp? 18 MR. LOPEZ: Excuse me? 19 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Is that an ADA ramp 20 going into the lobby? 21 MR. LOPEZ: Yes. This is an approach that 22 we want to do because, I mean, it gives a lot of 23 privacy to the users of the pool and also create 24 very good impact because we are not creating a 111 25 terrace of concrete. So we are putting some green TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 37 o 1 around, and deck, and water. So we prevent the 2 sun to go into the units. So we save energy with 3 that, and we give a nice place for the people to 4 be and also for these guys to look at. 5 MAYOR CAPLAN: Can you do that again? 6 One more time slowly. 7 MR. LOPEZ: It does it by itself. 8 MAYOR CAPLAN: One more time. 9 There is about a four story difference. 10 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Yes. 11 MAYOR CAPLAN: And lengthwise a little bit 12 longer. Depthwise -- 11 13 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Also. 14 MAYOR CAPLAN: -- a third wider. 15 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: That is why I would 16 like to see what the square footage was before and 17 after to know what we are actually getting, what 18 we are doing, because it all has an impact. 19 I would like more detailed analysis. 20 VICE MAYOR KELLY: What was there and what 21 went in? 22 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: I think she just 23 wants to see a footprint. That will help. 24 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: To what exactly -- II 25 this always comes down to what in a site plan TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 38 I 1 2 3 4 5 approval, what are our rights and what are our obligations as a council. COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: Correct. That is what I want to hear. COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: I have a few 6 questions to ask him before we get into that if I 7 could. 8 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: I just want to be 9 clear with the attorney because I think we are 10 talking about things and I think Mayra brought up 11 some points that are valid, but I don't know if we 12 necessarily -- II 13 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Well, if it's 14 legal, but not something that is going to be done 15 or going to be added, then we shouldn't do it, and 16 that is my point. 17 MR. HELFMAN: In the site plan approval 18 process, you have a certain amount of discretion. 19 You can impose considerable restrictions on 20 the development. You can ask the developers to 21 adjust the development to -- for example, somebody 22 raised the issue of the dumpster. To the extent 23 24 II 25 that there is a reasonable concern about the location of the dumpster, to the extent that there can be a change to that, a change in the site plan TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 39 o 1 2 3 4 5 6 to accommodate a different location, that is an appropriate condition or change. But, ultimately, to the extent that they comply with the code and conform with the reasonable conditions that you want to impose upon them, the fact that they are building to a certain 7 FAR is not a basis to deny them. The fact that it 8 is a greater size than was previously there, to 9 the extent that the code allows this size, it's 10 not a basis to deny the site plan approval. 11 VICE MAYOR KELLY: The question I have is 12 our open space criteria is based on the number of 11/ 13 residents per acre. 14 MR. HELFMAN: Our public open space, yes. 15 VICE MAYOR KELLY: Public open space. This 16 will clearly increase the number of residents from 17 22 bedrooms to 33 bedrooms. 18 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Not necessarily. 19 There is no -- that is where I think we get into 20 we make assumptions that I don't necessarily know 21 are in evidence. 22 I understand what you are saying, but I 23 don't think that is necessarily what follows. I 24 mean, I think we can do a study. 1110 25 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Let's do an TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 40 10 1 analysis. 2 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: We should do an 3 analysis. I absolutely agree with that, but I 4 5 6 7 don't think it's fair to draw conclusions based on any data until we actually review the data and made a study. MAYOR CAPLAN: I think you can't do the 8 analysis that you are talking about because it's a 9 backward look. It's not a forward look. 10 MR. HELFMAN: Our current concurrency 11 regulations, which is what you are talking about, 12 are based upon a unit analysis, not a population I/ 13 analysis. The way we address an overcapacity or a 14 lack of capacity is based upon unit approval, not 15 population approvals. That is the mechanism that 16 we have in our code. So where you have a -- 17 VICE MAYOR KELLY: But we assess the 18 deficiency based on population, not by units. 19 MR. HELFMAN: We evaluate the deficiency 20 based upon population, but we manage the 21 deficiency based upon units. It may not make -- 22 it may not make sense to do it that way, but that 23 is the methodology that has been used throughout 24 the state for growth management. That is how it 11 25 has been done. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 p 1 2 3 4 41 So you measure it based upon population and how many people per acre if you will. You have open space, for example, but when you go to control it, you control it by how many units you 5 are approving. So what the regulations say is you 6 should not be approving any more units if you have 7 a lack of capacity, but a reduction in units is 8 not a prohibited approval. 9 This is considered a reduction in units 10 even though what may ultimately result is an 11 increase in population at the project. Even 12 14 15 though the unit count is going down, your population may go up, which is what you are really concerned about. Now, I don't know if that is the case here. 16 It may be. It may be that your unit count goes 17 down, but because of the type of new units that 18 are going in, the population will increase or the 19 demographics that are going in will increase the 20 population even though there are half the number 21 22 23 24 111 25 of units, let's say. Maybe the population will double. That is the dilemma, but you don't have any regulations in place to control population right now. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 so 0 42 1 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: I am aware of that. 2 I am just trying to define the deficiencies. 3 MR. HELFMAN: Right. I know. I know. 4 VICE MAYOR KELLY: I'm trying to understand 5 why this comes before a vote. 6 MR. HELFMAN: Why is it before a vote? 7 Simply because anything but a single family -- 8 your zoning code, you decided or some prior 9 council decided that anything with the exception 10 of single family development should come to this 11 council for their approval. You wanted the 12 ability to see it. You want to be able to have 13 some input in the process. Even though it may not 14 be input over how big it is or the FAR, you wanted 15 to have some limited input in the process of 16 approving a non -single family development. 17 VICE MAYOR KELLY: I just haven't heard a 18 criteria that would justify a no vote. 19 MR. HELFMAN: It's really not a no vote 20 opportunity. It's a vote to -- 21 VICE MAYOR KELLY: So then why does it come 22 to a vote? 23 MR. HELFMAN: Because it's an opportunity 24 to participate and impose, if you will, limited ID 25 conditions on that development that you feel would TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 43 1 make this development more compatible, and it 2 gives you some input in the development process. 3 4 5 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: The Consultatio. We worked with them. MR. HELFMAN: It was. Consultation was 6 very similar, although larger scale. 7 8 9 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: Bigger scale, obviously. MR. HELFMAN: There are really no 10 differences, their site plan approval. 11 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: They had a site 12 plan. They already had a site plan. 5 13 MR. HELFMAN: Well, the first people came 14 in for a site plan, and the second developer came 15 in for a modification to the site plan, but it's 16 no different. It's just a bigger project, but 17 it's site plan approval, and we are in the same 18 exercise as we were there, which was working with 19 the developer, and there we raised some 20 significant concerns. The developer was willing 21 to work with us, move buildings around, change the 22 location of buildings, create view corridors. I 23 mean, that was an exercise working with the 24 developer where we came up with -- ID 25 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Well, but let's be TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 44 1 clear. The first site plan that was approved was 2 frankly in my opinion God -awful. It was four huge 3 4 5 6 buildings along the property line, but the council -- COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: They worked with us. COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Well, subsequently, 7 Consultatio worked with us, but the first project 8 that was approved in 2007, April of 2007 was 9 for -- or March of 2007, was four towers along 10 because that is what our zoning code allowed. 11 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: This all sounds to 12 me like a good neighbor policy. Like if we all 111 13 said, you know what, I hate the look of that 14 building, it doesn't matter. They can build it, 15 correct? 16 MR. HELFMAN: Yeah. 17 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: So what they are 18 doing today or tonight is they are showing us what 19 their design is going to be and trying to get 20 input from the community, being the council, to 21 say we love it, we love it but can you make it a 22 little shorter, maybe even make it a little less 23 narrow, more trees, whatever it may be, but that 24 is what I am getting the sense of. We really • 25 can't tell them not to develop this, except from TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 1 2 3 4 5 6 45 the three points that we talked about, downstairs and some other small things that were here. It sounds like a good neighbor policy. They are showing us what is going to be built. They are showing the community what is going to be built. 7 MR. HELFMAN: To some extent, this is a 8 design review, if you will, process. It's a site 9 10 11 12 5 13 plan review process, but the right to build X amount of units at certain square footage exists. You have no design criteria in your code for this area as opposed to single family where you have some design criteria. You deal with porches and 14 different types of things that you have 15 incorporated over the years, but you really have 16 limited design criteria outside of the single 17 family area. So this really is site plan review. 18 It's the layout of the property, how it's oriented 19 in terms of its neighbors, dealing with noise 20 concerns, potentially lighting concerns, 21 landscaping concerns, parking area concerns, and 22 those kinds of things. 23 MAYOR CAPLAN: I think the important part 24 of this is not what is happening tonight. What is • 25 happening tonight is they want to build this, and TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 46 1 2 3 4 5 this is the next step in the process to do so. The process that includes prior to tonight with Jud, there are lots of criteria, and building, planning and zoning's job is to make sure they comply with that. 6 MR. HELFMAN: They could not get here 7 unless they met the code. So they meet the 8 minimum requirements of the code. To the extent 9 10 11 12 5 13 that there are modifications to this project that you would like to see that you feel are reasonable and want to impose conditions on that, you can do that. COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Steve, so I didn't 14 get an answer to my question as to whether this 15 building is going to have fire sprinklers in it. 16 If it didn't, could that be one of the 17 conditions we would say? Because we are requiring 18 sprinklers in all these other buildings. 19 MR. HELFMAN: No, no. Because that is not 20 within the scope of what your review is. That is 21 governed by the life safety codes and either they 22 are required by the life safety codes or they are 23 not. 24 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Can't we make the • 25 codes? TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 47 0 1 MR. HELFMAN: No. Those aren't your codes. 2 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: Do you have fire 3 sprinklers in the apartments? 4 MR. LOPEZ: Yes. 5 6 7 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: We are. That is it, you know. COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: But I was asking 8 Steve. 9 MR. HELFMAN: You don't regulate that. 10 Those are adopted on a statewide basis. 11 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: I also think the 12 reason we have site plan review is to have an idea 111 13 what the growth is. I mean, one of the concerns 14 we had when we incorporated was the density and 15 the overpopulation, and something that came out of 16 the Sonesta project was the zoning in progress. 17 So it's more than just an aesthetic neighborly 18 analysis of the project, but really what the 19 actual impact is, and just so that we know what is 20 going on. 21 MR. HELFMAN: It's a certain level of 22 control. 23 MAYOR CAPLAN: That is true. It's kind of 24 telling. We haven't done this in awhile. • 25 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Yes, and we should. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 48 o 1 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: There was a project 2 that came before us -- were you guys on the 3 4 5 council? Enrique was. There was a lot of glass. Remember that? COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Yes. I remember 6 seeing it, but I wasn't on the council. 7 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: It was interesting, 8 and this is nice, you know. 9 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: I think it is very 10 nice. They are up to code. Can we say no? 11 MR. HELFMAN: No, but you can impose 12 II 13 14 15 16 changes or conditions. COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: If there are things that are really glaring. COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: It's reasonable. COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Can I ask them? 17 On the parking is at ground level? 18 MR. LOPEZ: Yes. 19 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: And I gathered, and 20 I have a hard time seeing the fine print. I had 21 to use a magnifying glass to catch the elevations, 22 but I gather that the lobby comes up about three 23 to four feet to hit base flood, and the lobby is 24 what you define as the first floor. • 25 MR. LOPEZ: Yeah. We have to raise the TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 49 o 1 building because the flood zone doesn't allow us 2 to build on the street level. So we have to raise 3 4 5 6 the lobby, but we have some elevators that go down in the back to the parking, so we don't have problems with the access. COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: So, basically, you 7 have the parking at ground level. Then you come 8 up to the first floor level to meet base flood, 9 and then the second, third, and fourth are all, of 10 course, above that. 11 MR. LOPEZ: Yes. 12 MAYOR CAPLAN: Okay. As you can see, we III 13 are wary of change. 14 Is there anything else? Okay. 15 We will call this. 16 We are going to close the hearing and we 17 call this question. 18 MS. DUQUE: Roll call. 19 Councilmember Gusman. 20 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: Yes. 21 MS. DUQUE: Vice Mayor Kelly. 22 VICE MAYOR KELLY: No. 23 24 10 25 MS. DUQUE: Councilmember Lindsay. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Yes. MS. DUQUE: Councilmember Taintor. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 50 o 1 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Yes. 2 MS. DUQUE: Mayor Caplan. 3 MAYOR CAPLAN: Yes. 4 MS. DUQUE: Councilmember Davey. 5 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Yes. 6 MS. DUQUE: Councilmember Garcia. 7 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: Yes. 8 MAYOR CAPLAN: Gentlemen, thank you. 9 MR. PECCHIO: Thank you very much. 10 11 12 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: I too think it looks very good. MS. DUQUE: Next item, Mr. Mayor, under II 13 special presentations will be presenting the, I 14 guess, the presentation regarding the Silver Sands 15 property. 16 MAYOR CAPLAN: Yes. 17 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Mr. Mayor, is this 18 a result of your discussion with the Silver Sands 19 representatives? 20 MAYOR CAPLAN: I don't know if this is, but 21 if you want me to report on -- 22 MR. CUEVAS: Good evening. How are you? 23 Vice Mayor Kelly, how are you? How are you? 24 I am Carlos Cuevas, 301 Ocean Drive, Silver 111 25 Sands. Let me introduce myself because I saw some TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 51 I 1 people actually don't know me well. Let me tell 2 that I have been an entrepreneur for the last 3 25 years. My passion for sustainability draws me 4 to be the founder and chairman of Recyclable 5 Planet. Recyclable Planet is a sustainable 6 7 8 9 development company, member of the Business Council of the United States Conference of Mayors. The U.S. Conference of Mayors is the official nonpartisan organization of cities with 10 population of 30,000 or more. There are over 1300 11 such cities in the country today. Each city 12 represented in the conference by its chief elected II 13 official, the mayor. The primary roles of the 14 U.S. Conference of Mayors are to provide mayors 15 with leadership and management tools and creative 16 forum in which mayors can share ideas and 17 information. 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 II 25 The Conference of Mayors' platform has helped me to interact with mayors of many of these cities learning valuable information of the main needs and concerns of the people that live in these cities. I will work, develop around helping cities, corporations and real estate developers to implement sustainable programs that will enable them to become more ecoefficient and socially TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 52 10 1 2 3 responsible. Now, councilmembers, with all due respect, we, the Silver Sands, we are really concerned for 4 our property rights. Back in 2006, we were in 5 6 7 favor of the Stop PUD on Key Biscayne Petition. We were against the atrocious development proposal that was on the table back then for the Sonesta 8 site. We were against the PUD because it was the 9 right thing to do and it was unfair, an unfair 10 PUD. 11 After reading the petition initiated by 12 Vice Mayor Kelly this past week, I saw two lines 11 13 that caught my attention. The density ordinance 14 does not prevent redevelopment, and the density 15 ordinance has no effect on single family homes. 16 Something did not make sense to me and I took some 17 time to make a little research at the building and 18 zoning department and came to the conclusion that 19 the proposal, the density proposed ordinance 20 simply doesn't work. 21 Why the proposed density ordinance does not 22 work? It does not work because it doesn't solve 23 any of the present or future density issues. It 24 is totally exclusionary. It is unbalanced. It is II 25 unfair. It is incomplete, and then it is TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 o 1 2 3 4 5 53 discriminatory, and then most importantly, if the legitimate action here is to attack density, then it is extremely weak. Over 500 single family home lots on the west side of the island are available to be 6 potentially developed as four, five, six and even 7 seven bedroom homes. Sixty-five single family 8 9 10 11 home building permits have been processed for new home construction as we speak. Those additional single family homes will represent at least 8,850 new residents moving into 12 these houses. Five hundred new single family homes will represent more than 12.3 percent of the 14 projected population of the island. Sixty-five 15 single family homes to be built in the next two, 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 11 25 three years will represent 1.6 percent of the projected population. Development in the Silver Sands will represent only 0.9 percent of projected population according to the development proposal that we have on the table tonight, today. All of you have seen the transformations of the Mackle houses. So now, June 2012, after 99 percent of the multifamily lots, land is being developed or is TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 54 1 being developed as we speak, the only property 111/ 2 available is our property, the Silver Sands, and 3 we have over 91.6 percent single family homes 4 developed as we speak also today, 2012. 5 So the additional number of units affected 6 by the proposed ordinance is just 38 units, which 7 is seven percent. We are supposed to have or we 8 are allowed 62 units, put thanks to the 90 plus 9 days that we had discussions, we built a project 10 that we actually -- was built around the 11 community, what the needs of the community. 12 So the number of potential new residents, 111 13 multifamily and single family homes affected by 14 the proposed ordinance is just seven percent. We 15 are talking about 140 potential new residents to 16 the Silver Sands site. 17 So the proposed density ordinance 18 effectiveness aims just to five percent of 19 potential new residents that the island will have 20 at some point in time. 21 In conclusion, this ordinance is selling 22 the idea of this council solving the density 23 problem, but actually it's not. There is a strong 24 need to change our mentality to be more 10 25 comprehensive and start to see the glass half full TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 55 I 1 instead of half empty. Our small community needs 2 3 4 5 6 unity, not social disruption. So I am here tonight to ask councilmembers to respectfully to please be fair and be rational. It is obvious that we are many years late to structure an ordinance that will control density 7 effectively. Ninety-nine percent of the 8 multifamily properties and more than 91.6 percent 9 10 11 12 • 13 14 15 16 17 18 of the single family homes in the village are already built or being built. If the legitimate intention of the council and the will of the community is to control density, then the council should take the proper time to work on a strong density proposal that will include single family homes in the west side of the island, existing property redevelopment and multifamily. The density ordinance proposal to be 19 discussed today does not solve any of the present 20 or future density issues, none. The proposed 21 density ordinance affects only one property. The 22 proposed density ordinance, if passed, will 23 trigger a multimillion dollar lawsuit against the 24 village and hundreds of thousands of dollars to be 111 25 paid in legal fees over the next few years by the TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 56 I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 • 13 14 village and the Silver Sands. The proposed density ordinance violates the property rights of only one property, and my personal comment is that I can't relate on how any councilmember would sell the idea of fixing density with an ordinance that does not solve anything and only will bring misery and sadness to one owner and her family. That is what I have to say about the density ordinance, but about the HR ordinance, I have to say that on the meeting of February 28th of this year, this council was scheduled to vote on the reading of the HR ordinance, which was intended to limit the use of our property to hotel 15 only. The ordinance was designed to impact 16 negatively our property and destroy the long term 17 investment that was made 20 years ago. At the end 18 of that night's discussion, this council in good 19 faith voted in favor of an extension of three 20 months that would allow, that would enable us to 21 find a common ground solution that would respect 22 our property rights and that also could find 23 balance with the concerns of the community. 24 The council appointed Mayor Caplan to have 111 25 the discussions with the Silver Sands. Mayor TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 57 0 1 Caplan and I met many times without any 2 commitments. The discussions were mainly about 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 5 13 14 the important issues that the village is facing today; our traffic, school, park, and the need of a hotel in the HR district. The only effective way to solve land use issues that could affect the property rights of the single property owner is by creatively finding solutions that will systematically dilute these issues by the creation of an alliance and some partnerships. The best example to follow is the way our mayor, councilmembers and staff work so hard for months to reach an agreement with the school 15 district for expansion of MAST Academy. Now Key 16 Biscayne students will have the option to attend 17 one of the best high schools in the state thanks 18 to Mayor Caplan and the village officials' ability 19 to negotiate with the school district. We now can 20 say that a school solution is around the corner. 21 It wasn't easy, but we know by heart that this 22 solution is a win win situation for all parties. 23 Even Mast Academy committed when they realized in 24 the future that this was a good partnership. II 25 This council failed to bring a hotel to the TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 58 • 1 Sonesta site. They tried hard for it. The 2 3 4 5 proposed HR ordinance to be discussed in second reading tonight will, among other things, completely terminate this initiative at the Silver Sands. 6 The Silver Sands is an operating business 7 that is suffering the consequences of having a 8 major noisy construction next door. Our guests 9 10 11 12 • 13 14 15 are turning away, cancelling their reservations because of the next door ongoing construction. The risk of being downswung pushes us to work on the potential redevelopment plan. Mayor Caplan started with the position of zero residential units and wanting a hotel on the site. Obviously, this is financially impossible 16 without a residential component. I think that was 17 Councilmember Gusman that made that comment on 18 February 28th. He said back then that different 19 experts and developers told him that if the 20 council wanted to induce a hotel in the HR 21 district, the HR ordinance was to in any case 22 destroy that possibility, and he is right. 23 We wanted to exercise our property right to 24 build 62 residential units that we are allowed 11 25 under current zoning code. No hotel, and using, TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 59 I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 of course, all the parameters of what the zoning code allows us to do in terms of height restriction and FAR. After spending many weeks brainstorming, analyzing, and discussing the current community needs and concerns, we came to the conclusion that we could induce a 40 room boutique hotel with a 8 low density component. We have in the table 9 today, a development proposal of 38 residential 10 units, and 40 rooms of award class boutique hotel, 11 not any hotel, but the world best. It will be a blessing to have a hotel of this category in the Key. We will have restaurant overlooking the beach, and a world class spa. 15 I can probably say that we came to the 16 point where we are now by working together putting 17 our community first and respecting our property 18 rights. At the end of the day, we have been part 19 20 21 22 23 24 11 25 of this community for many years, and we will continue to be part of this beautiful community for many more years to come. We all agree about the importance of keeping the magic essence of the site by creating open spaces and the preservation of the gardens and vegetation. More importantly, we understand TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 60 0 1 how sentimentally attached is the owner of the 2 land, Mrs. Zoraida Lujan, has been to the 3 property. We also agree that this potential 4 development doesn't respond only to profits, but 5 to the commitment of delivering to the Village of 6 Key Biscayne the most exclusive and one of a kind 7 project that we could build, a project that all 8 Key Biscayne will be proud to have in their 9 community. 10 At this point, I will just want to 11 introduce Mr. Jonathan Breene. Jonathan is the 12 founder and CEO of the Setai South Beach. He also 13 represents the founder and CEO of Aman Resorts, 14 Mr. Adrian Zecha. 15 Aman Resorts is one of the potential 16 boutique hotel operators that we would like to 17 bring to our project, and I want Jonathan to 18 present briefly the essence of what Aman Resorts 19 represents worldwide. 20 MAYOR CAPLAN: If I could, Jen. 21 MS. DUQUE: Yes. 22 23 24 5 25 MAYOR CAPLAN: The public hearing is open. You are on. Thank you so much. MR. BREENE: Mayor, councilmembers, village TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 61 1 members. My name is Jonathan Breene. I live on 2 444 West Rivo Alto Drive in the Venetian Islands, 3 and I was the founder and CEO of Setai Hotels and 4 Resorts. So I built the Setai here in Miami 5 Beach, which is now probably one of the -- 6 probably the best hotels in the country. My 7 partner, Aman Development is Adrian Zecha, who is 8 the founder and CEO of Aman Resorts. I work with 9 Adrian. We are 50/50 partners on Setai. I work 10 with Adrian in the other Aman deals that he has in 11 this part of the world. I am very good friends 12 with Hugo Columbo. I have known Hugo for many years, and recently he contacted me to see if we 14 would be interested in getting involved on this 15 site. I have had architects through the site. We 16 have been there many times, and it is definitely a 17 site that with the right density, 40 rooms and 40 18 apartments or 38 apartments fits into the Aman 19 model. We never do any more than 40 rooms, and we 20 never do any more than 40 villas or apartments. 21 Tonight I'll just give you a quick overview 22 of just some images, and just something about the 23 company. By being 40 rooms, you are able to 24 provide fantastic service. We have invited the • 25 best hotel company in the world for the last ten TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 • 62 1 to 12 years, very high end. In order to make a 40 2 room hotel work from operations point of view, you 3 have to charge very high rates. So that way you 4 5 6 can do less density in terms of hotel rooms. Today it's very difficult to make a five star hotel stock up from a development point of 7 view unless you have some residential. So having 8 9 10 11 12 14 the 38 condominiums that you can actually sell and then some of those could possibly go back into a rental program, can actually help the feasibility of the project. Aman Resorts was actually started in 1998 by Adrian. It was a site in -- this is the first one. This is the Amanpuri, which is in Phuket, 15 Thailand. It was basically originally as his own 16 compound with some frames and then eventually they 17 decided to do 40 rooms and did 40 villas. Today, 18 it's the flagship of Aman, being 25 years on. 19 Villas here are selling for 24 million dollars. 20 Currently, there are 24 properties of Amans 21 around the world ranging from Bhutan, Cambodia, 22 China, France, Greece, India, Indonesia and going 23 through to Philippines, Sri Lanka, Turkey, Turks 24 and Caicos, and, obviously, United States. 110 25 is other developments just about to open in There TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 63 1 2 3 Greece, and also in Turkey just opened. As I have said, there are basically only 40 rooms. So therefore the service of the hotels is 4 incredible. This is -- I picked ten hotels. I 5 didn't want to bore you with too many tonight, but 6 this is Amanpuri. So you can see that, again, 7 very low density. All very -- always trying to 8 build within the environment, not knocking down 9 trees and really trying to preserve. Up in Bali, 10 Amandari. Amankila, stepping down to the ocean. 11 12 5 13 Again, whatever place they go into, they really take people through basically architecture and try to incorporate that in all of their developments. 14 This is Amanusa also in Bali. This is Amanjiwo. 15 It's probably one of the best Amans. It's the 16 middle of nowhere in Java, in Yogyakarta. It is 17 diagonally opposite Borobudur Buddhist temples. 18 It's a very spiritual sanctuary with monks that 19 come in and lecture. Again, just preserving the 20 environment and building -- I mean, you would 21 think that building has been there for a hundred 22 23 24 5 25 years. That is like ten years old. There is two in the United States, Amangani, which is in Jackson Hole, and then this is just opened up, Amangiri, which is in Utah. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 64 Again, it took them ten years to get approvals in here because that was the exact site that we actually wanted, and, again, it was because of the views of all the mountains. Down in Turks & Caicos, Amanyara opened up a couple of years ago, and that has been doing extremely well with room rates in excess of $2,000 a night and villas selling for ten to 17 million 9 bucks. 10 In Morocco, Amanjena. So, again, you can 11 12 • 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 sort of see the architecture of each different location is incorporated into the hotels. This was an old village in Montenegro that they went through the whole project is an Aman, and they have taken all the different village buildings and built a hotel. So, again, tonight, we haven't signed a deal. We have been talking with the powers and the family and depending on your vote and how things go, we would be willing, Hugo and myself, 21 to get involved and try within a period of time to 22 sign up a deal, and, obviously, willing to listen 23 to the local village here of what they would like 24 in terms of design and start. • 25 So thank you very much for your time. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 65 • 1 MAYOR CAPLAN: Thank you. 2 VICE MAYOR KELLY: Question. I just 3 thumbed through a few of the Aman resorts and it 4 5 6 doesn't appear that all of them have homes as part of them. MR. BREENE: No. Some of the ones, like in 7 Yogyakarta that you couldn't sell a villa. So not 8 every Aman -- you only put the villas where you 9 can sell. So some of the original ones and the 10 beauty of, like, for example, different lodges in 11 Bhutan, no real estate is allowed in Bhutan. 12 Especially for foreigners. So many of the • 13 14 15 locations they go don't have real estate attached to the hotel, but they are building in locations where you can build in Asia and you can have the 16 Asian staff. The cost of building and the staff 17 levels are so much less and you can charge in U.S. 18 dollars. So the Asian hotels can make margins 19 with less real estate. 20 When you come over this side of the world, 21 all of the projects need real estate. Amanyara 22 has been a very successful hotel with 36 villas 23 and 40 units, and they need the villas to make the 24 extra economics work. • 25 Because, obviously, first of all, cost of labor in this part of the world TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 66 1 and then the cost of building is much more 2 expensive. 3 VICE MAYOR KELLY: So isn't part of the 4 determinative is your land cost? 5 MR. BREENE: Land, but land tends to be 6 sometimes only ten to 15 percent of the total 7 project. The rest of it is really construction, 8 the FF and A, and your metal work, and then once 9 you finish it -- I mean, generally, the highest, 10 the Setai was probably the most expensive building 11 built down here. So I needed revenues from my 12 condominiums and my room rates to justify it. And 13 that is why we have had to charge such high prices 14 because, again, from ongoing operations just to 15 justify that investment, we needed to charge very 16 high rates because, again, we have much more 17 higher labor cost in this part of the world than 18 you do in Asia and other areas. 19 So, for example, on Key Biscayne, we think 20 it's a spectacular site. We think to do only 40 21 little rooms and then 40 or 38 apartments, we 22 think that it's not a huge development. We would 23 like to sort of maintain the trees and really make 24 it a tranquil oasis, and as much as we can almost 5 25 put into a building, maybe put some cottages on TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 1 2 3 67 the side, but the site itself is so beautiful that you want to maintain and even enhance with larger trees going down into a beach bar, which is 4 different. Like, again, Setai, I only had three 5 acres and I have a 40 story tower. I think it's a 6 unique site that no one else, actually, I think in 7 Miami can replicate for an Aman. 8 VICE MAYOR KELLY: Are the apartments 9 intended to be rental units in your pool? 10 MR. BREENE: Depending on the owners. It's 11 up to them. For example, in Miami, at the Setai, 12 5 13 14 15 16 17 we have 160 units of which 45 came back into a rental program. Other people didn't want to rent them or they wanted to fit them out themselves. In this case, these will be bigger units, probably sort of around 3500 to 4500 square foot. Many of the villas down in, say, Amanyara are 18 about that size. They are always three or four 19 bedroom, and so I could see, I kind of get, but I 20 can see some people living there, and I can see 21 some others being more transient, and then putting 22 it back into renting it, and letting the hotel 23 look after it. One of the real problems with 24 someone when they come, if the fridge is broken, • 25 this doesn't work, that doesn't work, and the TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 68 1 2 3 4 5 beauty about the success at Setai has been when the owners come and everyone is limited on time, it's about being able to walk into an apartment that is perfectly maintained, everything worked, and then when you leave, they will look after 6 everything. For this echelon of clientele, is 7 very important. 8 MAYOR CAPLAN: What was the experience at 9 10 11 Setai on -- is there an FF and A in the package that you would preselect if you wanted to be in the pool? You would have to. 12 MR. BREENE: Correct. 5 13 MAYOR CAPLAN: So that would be your way to 14 channel or to predict. 15 MR. BREENE: Yes. What we do then, we 16 basically say, unless you have the FF and A 17 program, you know, there we finish kitchens and 18 bathrooms. So we have to come in and do floors 19 and walls and, obviously, all the furniture. So 20 we actually cap it at 45. We didn't want any more 21 than 45 because we weren't quite sure back in 22 2001, 2002, you know, how many we could rent. We 23 24 II 25 knew what we needed the rental numbers to make it work, and we thought if we ended up with a hundred, we might saturate the market at the high TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 69 1 2 3 4 end. We actually could have done more back in retrospect. In this case, we will not allow a unit to go into a hotel rental program unless we have it 5 completely fitted out in the Aman style. We also 6 have other designs by the Aman. We will come up 7 with, you know, a number of different types, and 8 9 10 11 12 5 13 then that way, even if you are not going -- I mean, the Aman design is so good, that even if you are got going into a rental program, most people will just say, listen, I'll buy the furniture package so it's easy for me. MAYOR CAPLAN: But your business model 14 would be to encourage people to join the rental 15 program. 16 MR. BREENE: It helps specially with only 17 40 rooms, but at Setai, I have got 88 and then I 18 have the 45 apartments, and I have the penthouse 19 that came back into the rental program that we 20 rent for 30,000 a night, and even then, we have to 21 work the economics to make sure we get a decent 22 net income. 23 With 40 rooms, we would need to try to get 24 as many of our apartments as guests so they are • 25 coming in to help us on those economics. I think TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 70 1 2 3 4 5 we can charge even a high rate by the room, you know, a room hotel rate and residentials for a good sales price than anyone staying in Miami before. MAYOR CAPLAN: You don't have occupancy 6 limits in your covenants? You are either in or 7 you are out of the rental pool. It's 8 discretionary on the part of the owner. 9 MR. BREENE: The way we do it is, 10 11 12 5 13 basically, you sign up for three to five years. You have a penalty if you want to get out. We allow an owner, they normally select in October. They have four dates. We have blockout 14 dates; Art Basel, Christmas, New Year's, Easter, 15 and they can select one of those out of the four. 16 So the owners are fine, and the rest of the time 17 we are able to have enough inventory during those 18 peak times to sell those. 19 VICE MAYOR KELLY: If I may, Miami Herald, 20 April 3, 2012, luxury hotel Setai axes operator. 21 When the Setai Resort and Residences opened in 22 late 2004, the property was hailed as a zen oasis 23 in the midst of Miami Beach. It commanded 24 discount rates of a thousand dollars and earned • 25 raves for its sleek sophistication. But in the TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 71 1 last few years, its owners say the hotel has 2 managed just an average of 50 percent occupancy at 3 a time when Miami -Dade occupancy averaged about 4 76 percent. Blaming the poor performance on the 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 5 13 management company, the owners kicked out Singapore based General Hotel Management and GHM South Beach, LLC this past weekend and installed a new operator. One of the complaints that the owners had was that the quality of service was not up to the beauty and the quality of the asset. Trevi Luxury Hospitality Group based in Dallas is now operating the hotel and condo at 2001 Collins. Which one of those groups are you? 14 MR. BREENE: I am part of the ownership. 15 So the developer and the entity that we developed 16 is Setai Owners, LLC. My business partners were 17 Lehman Brothers. I was the managing member of the 18 LLC when we developed the property. I signed the 19 management contract with GHM, which is one of 20 Adrian's hotel management companies. Once Lehman 21 went bankrupt, every person that was a decent 22 person at Lehman basically left, and then it 23 became a bunch of people that were just all about 24 screwing this and screwing that. II 25 So basically what happened is that Lehman Brothers ignored the TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 1 2 3 4 5 72 management contract and stormed the hotel at 2:30 in the morning. They claimed that, for example, one of the claims was a 50 percent occupancy, but in that same article, they didn't mention what the room 6 rate was. In the hotel business we talk rent par. 7 You take a room rate and you take the occupancy 8 and it's really what you are left with. That is 9 the most important. So you might be at a 10 50 percent occupancy, but you might be going at 11 1200 or $1500 a night as opposed to a lot of other 12 hotels that might be at 72 percent occupancy, but 13 they are charging $150 a night. So their rent par 14 is much lower. 15 There is a huge litigation going on. The 16 contract -- 17 VICE MAYOR KELLY: You said you are an 18 owner? 19 MR. BREENE: I am the owner, but I don't 20 have any day-to-day control. So I had nothing to 21 do. It was Lehman Brothers or the bankruptcy 22 estate of Lehman Brothers that basically as a 23 member of the LLC, I was never informed on 24 basically that they were going to storm the hotel. 5 25 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: What percentage TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 73 0 1 ownership -- 2 MR. CUEVAS: Can I interrupt a second? Can 3 I? Because this is not about him or this is not 4 about Four Seasons or Hilton or whoever wants to 5 be. This is about an ordinance that is being 6 discussed today, which is the density ordinance 7 and the HR district ordinance. That is what we 8 are talking about. He has nothing to do with 9 anything that we are talking today. He is 10 bringing the presentation of Aman Resort, which is 11 a possible operator for the site. That is all. 12 5 13 14 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: So it's all speculative. MAYOR CAPLAN: No, it's not. 15 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: That is what it is. 16 MAYOR CAPLAN: There is a news report that 17 you are explaining in context. I would like to 18 hear more about Aman. 19 MR. CUEVAS: Aman has nothing to do with 20 GHM Hotels. It is a completely different company 21 and it's a different hotel chain, and that is what 22 we are talking about. 23 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: I totally agree with 24 what you just said, and I have been to Aman 110 25 Amanyara in Turks, and it was Nirvana to me. It TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 74 1 was a heck of a road to get down there. I'll say 2 that. I got a little scared, but once we got 3 there it was unbelievable. I tried to talk our 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 mayor, past mayor into going, but I guess the rates were too high. We didn't stay there either, by the way, but someone said you have to go see it because it is spectacular. I am only saying that because when you came up and I heard Amanyara or Aman Resorts, boy, I doubled my enthusiasm because I know what you guys 12 have done. I have seen it. I have lived it, and 5 13 I breathed it. Now I'm even more excited to see 14 you guys pair up and do something because I agree 15 with you. I think it would be phenomenal. 16 So I do agree. I don't think we need to 17 badger this gentleman, and I think he's up here -- 18 I'm excited that you are here. Thank you. 19 MR. BREENE: You are welcome. Thank you 20 very much. 21 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: It's nothing 22 against you. We are trying to get information. 23 MR. BREENE: No, no, no. I have no problem 24 in answering any of the questions -- III 25 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Thank you. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 75 1 MR. BREENE: -- because it's public. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: We need to know what we are doing. MR. BREENE: And you need to know. You need to understand -- COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: We need to know what we are doing. MR. BREENE: -- which is the parties. 9 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: And I certainly 10 11 12 5 13 don't like when, you know -- thank you for answering the questions, but I would like you to answer. MR. BREENE: It's my litigation going on, 14 and I think time will show that GHM, the 15 management company that was removed -- 16 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: What was the 17 percentage interest that Lehman Brothers had in 18 the project? 19 MR. BREENE: Well -- 20 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Because that seems 21 to be, you know -- 22 MR. BREENE: The normal development deal is 23 that I put up a small amount of money. They put 24 up most of the equity, and after a certain return, 0 25 we were 50/50. Obviously, when the real estate TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 76 II 1 market crashed, my basic economic interest, I'll 2 never get back to my 50 percent interest. So 3 Lehman controls, and can make all decisions, and 4 that is why under that scenario, we weren't 5 informed. They basically had -- because it's 6 their money. They are in control. They own the 7 hotel. So they can do with what they want with 8 it. 9 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Thank you. 10 MR. BREENE: You are welcome. 11 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Getting back to 12 this particular piece of property. 5 13 MR. BREENE: Yes. 14 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: In your opinion, in 15 order for it to work, it has to be basically a 16 50/50 split; 50 percent hotel, 40 units, and 40 17 condominium units. 18 MR. BREENE: Yes, and that fits exactly 19 into the Aman model in terms of when it is real 20 estate. Some will be less. Some -- everything is 21 depending on the site, but the perfect Aman model 22 is 40 hotel rooms, and 40 villas in this part of 23 the world. 24 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: And, obviously, • 25 because you are going to be charging high hotel TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 77 so 1 rates, you are going to have a very high 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 clientele. The condominiums are going to be very expensive. Who do you think is going to buy those condominium units? I would assume probably foreigners who are going to have those as a second or third home, use them for short periods of time of time, and perhaps put those units into the rental pool, which would really mean that you might end up with almost 80 hotel units. I use the Ritz Carlton as an example. You 12 know, they have got 302 hotel units, now 188 condo II 13 units, but theirs are classified as condominium 14 hotel units, which have their own definition, 15 which I was kind of surprised at. I understand 16 that the Ritz on their hotel units is running 17 about a 90 percent occupancy rate. On their 18 condominium unit, of which almost all of them, all 19 188, I think all but 11 are in the rental pool, 20 only one unit has a full time resident, and so 21 almost all those units are in the rental pool and 22 they are running about a 50 percent occupancy 23 rate. Evidently, the arrangement that the Ritz 24 has with their hotel and their condominium units, II 25 hotel condominium, has worked very well to the TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 78 to 1 benefit of its owners. 2 And my question is do you think the same 3 scenario would possibly work in regards to the 4 Silver Sands, i.e. you have 40 hotel units, but 5 you have 40 condo units that really become hotel 6 units. 7 MR. BREENE: They are bigger than the 8 typical, you know, for a hotel. Like, for 9 example, Setai, we have, most of our units that 10 were in the program were about 1400 to 1500 square 11 feet. So, you know, that is why we have to push 12 up the price per square foot, we have the good 13 rent. 14 Under the Aman model, I believe that the 15 sizes are perfect because they are very similar to 16 say Amanyara in Turks & Caicos where they are all 17 about anywhere from 5,000 to 10,000 square foot 18 villas. So these units in here, I could see them 19 all being two, three, four bedroom, you know, 20 apartments that would basically come back in, and 21 Aman -- we call them Aman junkies. There's 22 300,000 people that unless you have been to three 23 or four Amans, you don't get classified. So he 24 has a database of 300,000 people. One third is II 25 basically in the U.S., one third is in Europe, and TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 79 1 then one third, give or take, is in Asia. 2 3 4 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Is the councilman on your list? MR. BREENE: I think so. I would have to 5 see. 6 So, first of all, there will be people that 7 say, you know what, because there is an Aman 8 there, I will go. No one would go down to Turks & 9 Caicos where the site sits because it sits on the 10 other end of the island unless it was an Aman. I 11 12 14 15 mean, all these Amans, they are in the middle of, like the one in Utah, it's in the middle of nowhere, and they are getting close to $1500 at about a 75 percent occupancy. So I first of all think there will be a 16 number of Aman people. 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 5 25 Remember there's only 40. There will be people that already live on Key Biscayne that already own a unit or a house, and say, you know what, let me go, and I'll buy, and sell the house or sell the unit, and then I think there will be Latin America because on the island you hear a lot of Latin buyers buying up, and a lot of them know and go to many of the Amans, and then the northeastern European. Setai was mainly northeast when I first saw TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 80 1 we sold the units. We probably had about 60 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 percent, and then it became more European, and now it has come back and swung back to New York, northeastern corridor. I think there will be a mixture of them all, and, again, I think we will try to make it very exclusive being only 40, and we will try to pick and say, hey, we can only try to make it a bit more balanced as opposed to everyone from New 10 York, or anyone from, you know. There's not a lot 11 of units to sell. That is the beauty, and I think 12 II 13 14 the way the real estate market is today, it is really sort of coming back. COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: So you would not 15 expect families in essence to buy one of these 16 units and live in it on a year round basis. 17 MR. BREENE: Absolutely. I actually think 18 there will be some families that will actually buy 19 and live here year round. With all the services, 20 I mean, having a great restaurant, having a spa, 21 but I think the majority will be probably second 22 or third time homes, put them back into a program 23 and basically rent them when they are not here. 24 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: I don't know if you • 25 will be able to answer this question or somebody, TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 81 1 the 38 and the 40 meets with our zoning code? 2 MR. CUEVAS: Yes, the density. Same 3 4 5 meeting with the FAR, and the height description as well. COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: I thought it was 6 said that he only had 62 units. 7 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Sixty-two residential 8 per acre or 30 hotel. So if he had a balance of 9 30 and 40, that was my question. I was trying to 10 11 12 5 13 do the math in my head, and I think we are good, but I just wanted to hear somebody say that affirmatively. VICE MAYOR KELLY: When the PDA was brought 14 forward, and the Defortuna project came forth, we 15 had developers here telling us the only way that 16 you could make money then was with a condo hotel. 17 You needed at least 300 rooms to do it. Then we 18 were told for a condo hotel it wouldn't work. So 19 now we can only do residential. If you want to 20 have a hotel, you have to have a big residential 21 building to justify the hotel rooms, that 40 hotel 22 rooms will never work,.and people said they talked 23 24 • 25 to Marriott, they talked to Ritz Carlton, and that a boutique hotel would never work. Suddenly, six months later, now boutique TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 82 hotels work, but, again, only in the context of a residential development, and yet in New York City there are multiple boutique hotels on land that is just as expensive as land here on Key Biscayne, and they function, and they make a profit. The thing that happens is every person comes forth and tells you the theory that achieves the goal that they want to achieve, but we never 9 hear from the alternate side. Where is the 10 11 12 boutique hotel that is functioning in New York that does only hotel rooms and makes a profit on land that is just as valuable as the Silver Sands property? Where is that component? 14 MR. BREENE: I know of a 40 room hotel in 15 New York City that, basically, could make money. 16 VICE MAYOR KELLY: I wouldn't expect you to 17 tell me that. You are here to promote one agenda. 18 MR. BREENE: All I am just saying -- 19 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: What about a 20 hundred room? I mean, it doesn't have to be a 40 21 room. 22 MR. BREENE: It's all a function of how 23 long have you owned, what is your basis. If you 24 are buying today, what is you construction cost. • 25 All of those factors come in. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 83 o 1 Let me tell you when Aman was set up, 2 everyone said he was crazy. Forty rooms will 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 never ever make money, and that was like within the industry, and everyone still thinks he's crazy, that 40 rooms can never make money. The reason why it works is because he started off in areas, in places around the world where he was able to, 40 rooms, charge in their local currency, build cheaply, but still an amazing product, but charge huge U.S. dollars. Most of the hotels, when he first opened Amanpuri 12 was $125. Adrian was charging five or 600. So ID 13 14 15 16 17 18 when you are paying everyone at the local currency, but you are collecting in U.S., those margins made Aman work. When he then decided to expand out of Asia and go to other parts of the world, his first - places that he expanded to were other areas around 19 the world that had the same economics. When you 20 start coming to America, Caribbean and other 21 places, he has had to add real estate because a 40 22 room model, I know that -- I was the original 23 person involved with Amanyara, and then sold it to 24 another developer. I know what the economics are. • 25 They are very tough to make work. A 40 room hotel TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 84 1 as a stand alone on this island of Key Biscayne, 2 and I think you can talk to any person, would all 3 say the same. You would have to charge a lot of 4 5 6 money because the starting levels for 40 rooms, your margin is going to be very tight or you will probably end up losing money. 7 MR. CUEVAS: Let me add something, Vice 8 Mayor Kelly. Don't forget that Zoraida Lujan, she 9 10 11 12 10 13 14 has been here for over 20 years, and she is committing great part of the profits in order to have a better hotel in the island, and that is one of the biggest reasons why she is open to that, and risk that kind of profit in order to have a hotel that works. It is different. It's not like 15 we are trying to get the investor out there to pay 16 for a hotel, but she is committing to her 17 community as well, the same way she was done it 18 for over 20 years. If that helps. 19 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: I guess what my 20 issue is, there is a lot of hotels that's 125 21 rooms. 22 MR. BREENE: Yes. 23 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Is that feasible? 24 Is that profitable? That is -- • 25 MR. BREENE: Absolutely. Listen, they work TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 85 1 because they build them. Okay? But, again, it's 2 hard just to throw a blanket over it and say 40 3 room hotel in New York City. It depends. If you 4 had opened a beautiful building for 20 years and 5 your base is next to nothing, and you don't need 6 to spend a lot of money on renovation, I can say 7 maybe it could work. 8 If you are buying today a site or you are 9 having to build and renovate extensively, only 40 10 rooms in New York City would be very difficult to 11 make work, but boutique hotels work. I agree. 12 II 13 14 15 I'm just saying on this side if we were just to look at this site on Key Biscayne, just doing 40 rooms, I would find it very difficult and you can find your own hotel consultants. 16 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: That should be about 17 120; 118, I'm sorry. 18 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: I was pretty close. 19 118. 20 VICE MAYOR KELLY: 118 unit hotel. 21 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: That is what I 22 thought. 23 MAYOR CAPLAN: The model that I have seen 24 work in other cities which is the club quarters, 10 25 the tiny rooms, very nice one common area, great TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 86 1 service in it, and no service otherwise. 2 VICE MAYOR KELLY: We really haven't done 3 research on a stand alone 125 units. 4 Not you. I am talking us, and we haven't 5 had a presentation. 6 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: That is not true. 7 They came before the ZORC and said -- 8 VICE MAYOR KELLY: Well, every presentation 9 we have had, obviously, was wrong because every 10 presentation we had never said a 40 unit alone -- 11 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: With all due respect, 12 let me ask you this. Is every presentation going II 13 to be wrong until they agree with your point of 14 view? That is what we are getting to here. 15 VICE MAYOR KELLY: No, but we are being 16 left out of information. We are only being given 17 the information that suits the developer who is at 18 the podium. 19 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: We asked them to come 20 forward with a proposal. They have come forward 21 with a proposal, and now we are saying, wait a 22 minute, we don't want this, we want this. 23 VICE MAYOR KELLY: We are looking 24 critically at the proposal. II 25 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Is this a good TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 87 I 1 proposal? 2 VICE MAYOR KELLY: I think that is our job. 3 MAYOR CAPLAN: In fairness, what he said in 4 response to your question is that other things 5 being favorable, 120 room hotel could work. 6 MR. BREENE: The only problem, again, a 7 8 9 walkthrough return on equity, in order to do projects today, let's talk about today and not four or five years ago when money was really 10 flowing. To do projects today, you probably have 11 to put up at least 50 percent equity, sometimes in 12 some cases, we are doing some new developments • 13 that are a hundred percent. So then you start 14 talking return on equity. If you do a hotel, full 15 hotel without any residential, you are sitting 16 there until you can sell the hotel and you have to 17 own it for five or six or ten years in 18 stabilization, basically. You have huge amounts 19 of capital, equity capital, which is very 20 expensive sitting there. The reason why a lot of 21 the projects we are doing today, in order to make 22 it work in today's financial markets, is that we 23 are trying to get as much real estate, that we can 24 sell the real estate, use that money to pay down 11 25 the actual hotel equity investment. So that is TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 o 1 2 3 4 5 88 sort of in today's economy is the only way you can get financing. So, for example, having the 30 or 40 residential apartments, by selling those as soon as we complete them, we are able to then pay down 6 the equity. Either pay it off or get it down to a 7 basis where then the hotel can stay up. 8 That is exactly what I did at the Setai. I 9 10 11 12 II 13 14 15 ended up spending -- everyone thought I was crazy. I spent way too much on the hotel, but that was the reason why I was having a premium in the condominiums and used those proceeds to pay off as much of the equity and debt on the hotel investment. COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: If I may, 120 room 16 hotel, and we are talking about density here, will 17 create a lot more traffic, a lot more density and 18 a lot more activity in any street than a 40 and 19 38, a 38 villa and 40 room high luxury hotel. 20 I mean, I think your project, what we 21 talked about here tonight goes with the property. 22 I know your track record or the company's track 23 record that you have. I think it's incredibly 24 good for the Key. It's what we are looking for, 110 25 and it's the economical response. That is the way TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 I) 1 2 89 we do, and I foresee it, as a realtor, that a lot of those properties, like it happened in the Ritz, 3 will go into the rental pool. I don't see that, 4 5 6 you know, many families paying right now ten, seven to ten million dollars, and not get any return, but I do see that as an investment, and 7 put it in the hotel pool like people have. So 8 what you have brought tonight, I don't know how 9 official it is, but it sounds very good. 10 MR. BREENE: Thank you. 11 MAYOR CAPLAN: So the project economics 12 that you just described and the sunken capital, II 13 14 15 16 17 38 units is what they are talking about. That correlates to property. Is 38 units in your estimation what it takes to make the project swing or is it half of the total development or how do you get to 38? 18 MR. BREENE: Thirty-eight, it was already 19 proposed. When I got involved on the project, and 20 they said they are trying to do 40 hotel and 38, I 21 said, you know what, that is perfect spot for an 22 Aman. 23 MAYOR CAPLAN: That just happened to work? 24 MR. BREENE: We got presented. I said, you 10 25 know what, it does fit into. Because we have TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 90 1 other brands. If it was more hotel rooms, it's 2 3 4 5 more than 40 rooms, we don't do it as an Aman. It either becomes as Setai or some other brands, chains and other things that we have, but 40 rooms and under the 40 apartments, it was the perfect 6 split. So it didn't actually come from us. Then 7 I said this is a perfect Aman. 8 MAYOR CAPLAN: As Carlos said, our starting 9 number is zero. Any increment over zero for a lot 10 of people is a problem. So there is a number at 11 which the project works and there is a number less 12 than that at which the project probably doesn't 10 13 work. 14 MR. BREENE: I feel those numbers, we can 15 make it work, and it's not going to be easy. 16 Because I am telling you this is 40 rooms. We 17 don't know how many villas are going to come into 18 the program. Forty rooms is going to be, we are 19 going to have to squeeze, and try to make money, 20 and provide that level of service. So the more we 21 22 23 24 II 25 can have in real estate to pay off the investment, and make sure that the operations of the hotel work so this hotel can be profitable and stay open and never have any problems for 20, 30, 40 years. Again, I think for the community to have something TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 91 I, 1 2 3 4 like an Aman resort on the Key, I think it just helps the overall community and other real estate values, and, you know, again, all residents, the restaurants are open so people can come at night, 5 and have breakfast, lunch or dinner. The spa also 6 is open to outside. Hotel guests and owners get 7 priority, but it's not like a gate that you can't 8 come in. So Amans in all the ones around the 9 world, again, the local people can go. 10 VICE MAYOR KELLY: How much are these rooms 11 going to go for per night? MR. BREENE: At Setai, we are averaging for the hotel rooms at about 800, and the apartments we get about 2500. So I would say -- 15 VICE MAYOR KELLY: So the days of $130 a 16 night Silver Sands where you can keep your family 17 there if you ran out of room in your house, those 18 days are gone. 19 MR. BREENE: If they are happy to pay 20 $1,000 a night. 21 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Good joke. In 22 1972, the room went for 16 bucks. 23 MR. CUEVAS: We have discount cards for 24 residents. 5 25 MAYOR CAPLAN: We are kind of an informal, TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 I) 92 1 casual place. We are not stuck up as a community 2 generally. Is Aman right for us? 3 MR. BREENE: Yes. I say that. Again, if 4 you have been before, I mean, you meet Adrian 5 Zecha, he is the most down to earth, simple guy. 6 Whole Aman philosophy is less is more. There is 7 no one in that organization that is stuck up. In 8 fact, he is the anti -European hotel. Because he 9 used to tell me before he started Aman, the Regent 10 Hotels, which was the best hotel company in the 11 world. They sold it to Four Seasons. He hated 12 going to Europe because he found so many of the 5 13 European hotels were so stuck up and you always 14 had to wear a tie and jacket. Aman is the anti 15 that. When you go to Amanpuri, the staff walk in 16 their bare feet. 17 This is the perfect company in terms of 18 completely anti, you know, tie, and stuffiness, 19 and it's the opposite. And that is why I think 20 people love Aman. Anyone that has been to an Aman 21 will testify to that. 22 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: One word, 23 phenomenal. Phenomenal. I have never been so 24 excited to see this gentleman in front of us. It • 25 is first class, yet so relaxed. It's TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 93 6 1 unbelievable. It's just the opposite of -- 2 MR. BREENE: Understated elegance. 3 4 5 MAYOR CAPLAN: You know our community. MR. BREENE: Yes. MAYOR CAPLAN: Do you think the 6 prototypical Aman guest will, on the third night 7 will connect to our village? 8 MR. BREENE: Absolutely. There is 9 10 11 12 II 13 definitely one thing that they don't want to just -- they will have dinner there one night. Aman guests, I mean, because most of these Aman properties around the world, you will have to be someone, almost an explorer. To get to some of 14 those things, you have to travel. They are never 15 in like just a simple. So this would be one 16 location that is easy for them to get to. So by 17 and large, these Aman people, they will come, they 18 will stay, but they then will come out to the 19 little restaurants and little boutiques in the 20 village. They work with the general managers and 21 then they take the guests for women's clothes and 22 this and that. So all of the different Amans have 23 their little shops. All the Aman junkies when 24 they go end up going to the little restaurants, III 25 and so very much so, and I think that, you know, TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 94 I 1 it's different to a Setai guest. Setai guest 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 likes going to the Beach and, you know, going to our restaurant once, and then going out on the Beach. The Aman guest I think is a little bit more oriented to Key Biscayne, more quiet, that village feel, and so that is why I think that Aman is like a better fit than a Setai, because it's very much like off the beaten track, long way from South Beach, and you have your own little quaint village here that I think that is why it fits so well. 12 MAYOR CAPLAN: I appreciate that answer. ID 13 When this idea was broached, I have not been to an 14 Aman. I am like the former mayor. I travel 15 cheap, but I have this question, whether Aman is a 16 level of stratosphere that is not the level that 17 we aspire to be at for our part. 18 MR. BREENE: I think you will find it 19 charges very high prices, but, again, even the 20 restaurants, like you go there. They are no 21 22 23 24 25 different to any of the other restaurants that they have down here in Miami, and are very open, and it's not like they try to shut out the local community and keep the restaurant just for themselves and no one can go and enjoy it. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 95 so 1 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: You can get a beer 2 for eight bucks just like the Ritz. 3 4 5 6 7 MAYOR CAPLAN: I don't like to spend eight dollars for a beer. COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: That is why you don't go to the Ritz. MAYOR CAPLAN: Any other? 8 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: Yeah. There is one 9 10 11 12 • 13 14 15 16 17 thing that really resolved me and I want to make sure to the way it is. You integrate this structure into that beautiful garden, because I was there the other day, and, I mean, when we talk about a 120 room hotel or big condo, just seeing all the concrete there going down and destroying that because that is kind of our last oasis, I just want to make sure from what I see on the brochures -- 18 MR. BREENE: We already looked at that. We 19 had the designers, and one of the things was, you 20 know, enhancing the whole garden. I know it is 21 very important for the owners. Carlos had told us 22 that. The way it feels. So one of the ideas that 23 24 • 25 we have been talking through with Carlos is having a tower pushed away, like facing to the street, and maybe doing some cabanas, like some little TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 96 0 I 1 rooms down the side. We are going to need to 2 incorporate a garage, and I don't know the water 3 tables. We haven't gone into all of that. Even 4 if we have to move a lot of those trees, and we 5 believe that we can actually relocate, and put 6 them all on the side, and then if we have to build 7 a garage, and bring up the water tables, and then 8 design, the essence of the site, the trees and the 9 tranquility, and maybe doing some beautiful ponds, 10 and sort of the lanterns in those trees, and 11 relocating them. So I think when you come to see 12 the plans that we are sort of doing, we go forward 13 and we put it together, that is one of the things 14 that will be very important for all of us, 15 because, again, trees and specially some beautiful 16 older trees that are on the side, you know, you 17 can't buy them any more. Trying to relocate and 18 bring them to a site is impossible. So the beauty 19 about the site is it has got some fantastic trees 20 that from day one, you can walk in and you feel 21 like the project has been there for, you know, 15 22 years. 23 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: Thank you. 24 MAYOR CAPLAN: Anybody? • 25 Thank you, sir. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 97 1 Ceci. 2 MS. SANCHEZ: Ceci Sanchez, 260 Cypress 3 Drive. 4 I love what I heard. I hope it becomes -- 5 it seems to me that it could be a good thing for 6 our island, but I come because I'm concerned. I 7 think we need to reevaluate our island. I think 8 9 10 11 12 ID 13 14 15 16 now is the time to save paradise, and this means that we need to check, and see what are we doing, and it's density, and it's not to me the Silver Sands or the 101 Sunrise Drive, but you need to see, as we were talking about a little while ago, about what other condos are doing or not doing, and I don't know what we can do about it, but I tried to call several buildings here on the island today, and just to give you an idea, for example, 17 I called the Towers of Key Biscayne. The large 18 end corner two bedrooms, what we call the 19 Estorils, if you -- they allow you to remodel 20 those apartments and make them three bedrooms. So 21 just figure out. There is 20 stories. How many 22 of those, and there are I think three stacks in 23 each of the buildings, 20 stories of apartments. 24 If you add another bedroom, that means how many • 25 more people will be living there. Because that is TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 98 1 the trend. We are getting larger families. 2 Apartments are being used year round. 3 I am a realtor. Most of the owners because 4 of economic conditions if either they had them 5 shut and they only came once or twice a year, they 6 are allowing us to rent those units. So the 7 apartments are being rented year round or people 8 that never rented them, they are renting them year 9 round, but this is a problem of density for us. 10 It is more people, more children in school, more 11 12 5 13 cars, et cetera, et cetera. So we need to look into this. I called Casa del Mar Condominium. You 14 have 27 stories. You have there 156 units. That 15 could be two bedroom units, not the three bedrooms 16 that are already three bedrooms, but those two 17 bedrooms, they allow them to be converted to three 18 bedrooms. So you are talking about if all those 19 apartments are converted into a three bedroom, and 20 you are going to get six people, you are adding 21 320 persons in just Casa del Mar. 22 In Key Colony, you know that they won their 23 lawsuit. We are talking about those 276 24 apartments that were two bedrooms. Now you are • 25 adding if everybody has three bedrooms there, TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 I) 1 2 3 4 5 99 there are 546 persons there. And that is the east side of the island. How about the west side of the island, the single families? I live in a two bedroom house. At some 6 point we were four. Now we are two. If one day I 7 8 9 10 11 12 5 13 sell my house, how many persons are going to go live there? Six? A minimum of six, maybe seven, maybe eight. I am asking the 101 Sunrise Drive, is there a maid's room in that project? So is it going to be six persons per apartment or is it going to be a maid too? Is there some way that we can force 14 condominiums to enforce the two bedroom per 15 person? What are we doing? Is this the time that 16 maybe we could bring an independent person to come 17 here and evaluate the whole island? What is our 18 density? What is our capacity? Where is our 19 infrastructure? Could we have a moratorium until 20 that happens? Should we go to a referendum? What 21 are we going to do? Because this is a problem, 22 and it's not the Silver Sands. It's everywhere, 23 and, I mean, you hear people complaining, but we 24 need to do something, and I think the time is now, • 25 and property values are not going to go down. On TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 100 I 1 2 3 the contrary, and now that we have the school, more people coming. So just think about it, please. 4 MAYOR CAPLAN: Thank you, Ceci. 5 Just an administrative note as I sometimes 6 do. We reach our three minute rule very 7 regularly, but please try to keep your thoughts 8 contained within that time span if you can. Thank 9 you. 10 11 12 14 15 Pat Woodson. MS. WOODSON: Hello. Pat Woodson, 940 Mariner Drive. So much of this is a lot of deja vu for me. Well, I don't have to tell many people in this room that, of course, we incorporated to have 16 control, zoning control, and to prevent density, 17 and additional development. So at the same time, 18 of course, reality is that every property on Key 19 Biscayne eventually will be redeveloped, and you 20 know that I am a long time advocate of 21 concurrency, and very keenly aware as I know we 22 all are that our infrastructure is stressed beyond 23 the max. Certainly, at peak hours, you can't park 24 to go grocery shopping. You can't get into the 10 25 community center. Even if you do get in, TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 0 1 2 101 sometimes you can't find a machine to work out on. The school, obviously, close to a 140 percent 3 beyond capacity, well beyond capacity. And thank 4 5 6 7 you for solutions coming down the pike, and at the same time that will attract more families, and maybe back to the same challenge in a number of years. 8 So I have my view of this situation is that 9 I encourage you to take more time. I agree with 10 the gentleman representing the Silver Sands that 11 the density ordinance doesn't go far enough, and 12 doesn't really solve our problem. I think that it 5 13 can be improved and tweaked in a variety of ways 14 that might require some additional research. I 15 think the goal, whether we have a project that is 16 going to add units or maintain units or whatever 17 it is that we are dealing with, our goal should be 18 to get as close to zero net growth of units as 19 possible, and I don't know how we are going to 20 start counting bedrooms. I don't even want to go 21 22 23 24 5 25 there at this point, but I think that in terms of additional multifamily houses, that requirements of a contribution of dollars to the village, which enables us to perhaps the village is going to start -- is going to need to use accumulated money TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 102 1 for concurrency to start buying some of the aging 2 condominiums as they are available. The 3 Williamsburg. You know, if we had been able to do 4 that and convert that property right on Crandon to 5 green space so very badly needed. We are so 6 desperate for additional active green space. We 7 have tried as a council for many, many years to 8 purchase property and convert it to green space. 9 We have been short on money. I think we need to 10 11 12 IP 13 think about making sure that developers who come to us for projects for multifamily houses make very significant, meaningful contributions, far beyond percentage. I think in retrospect you can 14 ask for certainly much, much more. We need it. 15 We need to maybe look at a density ordinance that 16 gives us more of a net zero unit growth through 17 acquisition of green space, which is, obviously, 18 so very difficult, and so very expensive. So I 19 urge you to take a look at that, and I think it's 20 a great idea for us to do our own independent 21 research when hotel consultants, hotel chains, 22 whatever, to say that, you know, are we stuck. We 23 24 • 25 certainly have felt stuck, but are we really in a situation where we have to accept formulas for additional permanent residents in order to have TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 103 1 hotel rooms? That may not in fact be true for 2 different companies, different organizations who 3 would be willing to work with us. So I urge you 4 to take the time to look at all of that before 5 making a decision. Thank you. 6 MAYOR CAPLAN: Thanks, Pat. 7 Michele Estevez. 8 9 10 11 MS. ESTEVEZ: Michele Estevez, 798 Crandon Boulevard. I agree with a hundred percent. I am not going to repeat many of her comments. I have been 12 coming to you to address this density for quite 5 13 some time, but mainly all that it has been 14 addressing is the population. I think our village 15 attorney was very clear this evening that we don't 16 have control over population, and it is in all the 17 comments and all the regulations that are in place 18 right now. What we are controlling is density, 19 and probably density is not our problem. Our 20 problem is population. Because this evening now I 21 22 23 24 5 25 am very impressed with the project of the Silver Sands, in which I was completely opposed before. It's not about density. So I urge that you postpone this evening ordinance, and you look into what the ordinance TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 104 1 can bring and change and look into the island why. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 5 13 Bedrooms in condominiums, bedrooms in homes. I have been addressing all that prior to you. The projects on the island that I think that will come, they have been looking to population. So once again, very short and precise, please do not pass this ordinance this evening, and look into the best interest into the islandwide, and to look into the population. Thank you. MAYOR CAPLAN: Thank you, Michele. Betty. MS. CONROY: Good evening. Betty Sime 14 Conroy, 785 Crandon, Unit 1403. 15 Actually, you know, I am really sorry that 16 this presentation has to come before we really got 17 our ducks in order because, you know, the hardest 18 thing, and I know I was chairman when we were 19 preparing our master plan, it's really hard to 20 look ahead. It's really hard to know what is 21 going to happen. Who would have thought that the 22 Sonesta would be torn down? I don't know if you 23 all saw on the paper Camillus House was torn down. 24 So it's happening. It's happening, and it's going • 25 to keep happening, and, again, it isn't just the TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 105 • 1 Silver Sands. L'Esplanade, the Harbor Plaza 2 Shopping Center, as we have seen tonight clearly, 3 101, redevelopment. We have got to control this. 4 As everyone has said, anyone that lives here, we 5 are maxed out. All our facilities are maxed out. 6 One major point that was made tonight that 7 I must say I did agree with, there certainly are 8 problems on the west side. No question we have to 9 address that, but it's way more complicated. So 10 tonight let's take that first step. Let's go 11 ahead. Let's pass the density ordinance. Let's 12 get moving on something to say, okay, enough is • 13 14 We have been up here delaying, delaying, delaying 15 five years, meeting in these committees and 16 nothing is happening until look what is around us. 17 So I really urge to make this step because 18 it sends a message. We have an election coming up 19 in November. If anyone up here is hesitant, send 20 it to the voters. Let the voters make the enough. We have got to draw the line in the sand. 21 decision. If you have an election, these issues 22 are made clear. They are talked about. They are 23 researched, and that is a good way to find out 24 what your residents really want. Unfortunately, 111 25 here we are June, July. We are missing a lot of TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 106 • 1 people. There are a lot of snowbirds that would 2 3 4 5 6 7 love to be here, would love to participate, and if you have the referendum in November, they would be here and they will be out voting because it is such a big election. So, again, I won't go over everything that everyone else has said, but I do urge you to make 8 that step. Let's draw the line in the sand and 9 10 11 12 • 13 14 say, look, no more, no more. We can't control We are out of control already. Thank you. MAYOR CAPLAN: Thanks, Betty. Mort. MR. FRIED: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. 15 MAYOR CAPLAN: Thank you, Mort. Welcome. 16 MR. FRIED: Mortimer Fried, 291 Harbor 17 Court, Village of Key Biscayne. 18 I am really here to talk about something 19 you are going to take up in a little while. The 20 ordinance on density. Density, density, density. 21 22 23 24 110 25 I heard it all the time I have been sitting there. You came in and started with a request for a variance changing apartments from 12 to 11 so they can make bigger apartments, but if I understand what happened, that variance was granted even TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 107 0 1 though it was discussed and voted on that the 2 larger apartments were going to bring more 3 density. The ordinance covering the whole island 4 is beautiful for the east side of the island, east 5 of Crandon Boulevard because it will fix those 6 buildings which are there now. They can't go any 7 higher. They might be able to gut the interiors 8 and add more apartments, but that is what future 9 councils will have to look at, and the building 10 and zoning department will have to look at to see 11 if one of those 3,600 unit apartments in the large 12 condominium is suddenly broken up into three 13 200 unit apartments. Now even though there was 14 3600 unit up there, that is one family, God knows 15 how many people, but you are going to have that 16 many more people if they broke it up. 17 Now, density, I again say, applies 18 beautifully to the east side of the island. It 19 has no effect on the west side. I used to have a 20 house next to me that was no bigger than mine, 21 2500 square feet, four bedrooms, two baths, just 22 like mine, different layout, one family. I have 23 got a goddamn 8,000 square foot monster next to me 24 now. It's an unusual lot next to me. It goes 5 25 back to 75 feet in the back, but it comes out to TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 108 1 2 3 4 100 feet in the front, and where the old house used to be in one little 3,000 square foot corner of the property where they had a beautiful front yard and a big wide side yard is now all covered 5 with concrete. It's a nice looking building, but 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 5 13 I guarantee you it is not for one family, and that is what we are running into constantly on the west side of the island as long as you don't look at building and zoning. We have had two ZORCs appointed during while this municipality has been in existence. In the first one, and I quote my good friend Mr. Llorente, former councilman, who said the sole 14 ZORC he was on did absolutely nothing. The second 15 ZORC appointed by the council had nothing but 16 builders and architects on it, and they drew code 17 plans that gave them the ability -- well, you see 18 them out there if you drive by, that 75 foot lot, 19 75 by a hundred, they are completely used up. The 20 back setbacks are no longer applicable. The front 21 setbacks are no longer applicable. What you have 22 to do, and where a lot of the density is coming 23 24 5 25 from is not over there. It's over on this side, the west side. You have got to get in and change the codes TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 109 1 and reduce the size of the buildings. You are 14 110 2 3 4 still going to get multiple families, but you are going to have less. Thank you very much. I appreciate your 5 time. 6 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Very nice. 7 MR. FRIED: I am going home. 8 9 10 11 12 15 16 MAYOR CAPLAN: All right. Anybody else? Ed. MR. SANCHEZ: Good evening. Ed Sanchez, 260 Cypress Drive. What I have given you is a list of properties that have sold since January 1st of this year. COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: Single family? 17 MR. SANCHEZ: On the first column. 18 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: Single family? 19 MR. SANCHEZ: Excuse me? 20 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: Single family? 21 MR. SANCHEZ: Single family. This is all 22 on the west side. PS means pending sales. CS is 23 closed. So you see 44 have sold, out of which 13 24 still have no close. Next column is the address, 25 then the living area, bedrooms, baths, the price TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 110 1 that was listed, the price that was sold, and the 2 closing date. Out of this 44, less than ten are 3 Mackle. Ninety-nine percent probability those 4 Mackles are going to be torn down, and from 15 to 5 1800 square feet are going to be ending up with 6 about six, 7,000 square feet. From a family of 7 three or four, we will probably get six, seven or 8 eight people, plus a nanny. From two cars we are 9 10 11 12 5 13 14 15 16 17 18 going to be getting four cars, plus a golf cart, so forth and so on. Now, don't count only the Mackles because even the three million dollars waterfront properties might be torn down to build a ten million dollar property. Basically, what I'm trying to tell you is that when we talk about the Silver Sands or we talk about 101 Sunrise, the numbers are not significant compared to what Ceci told you what is 19 happening in the condominiums. I was manager of 20 Botanica. At that point in time, the occupancy 21 was two people per bedroom, and all the units were 22 recorded in the public records as a two bedroom 23 unit. They sued the association and they won. 24 Now there is no limit to the occupancy. You can • 25 build three bedrooms that can be occupied by eight TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 1 2 111 people. You cannot enforce any more, and this was Botanica. Probably the same thing is going to 3 happen with the other condominiums, or it is 4 already happening. Like she said, Casa del Mar 5 probably will be getting about 200 more additional 6 residents. So what is that going to do with the 7 parking at Casa del Mar? What is it going to be 8 doing to the Winn -Dixie parking, to the St. Agnes, 9 to the school? So keep that in mind. 10 Thank you so much for your time. 11 MAYOR CAPLAN: Thank you, Ed. 12 5 13 14 15 16 17 18 I am asked by one of my colleagues to ask you all as you are speaking tonight's occasion or at any time if you are a lobbyist registered as such with the village to please identify yourself as such so that we know what role you are speaking with respect to. COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Sorry? 19 MAYOR CAPLAN: We have our own registered 20 lobbyists. Lobbyists who register with the county 21 or otherwise, other municipalities, same rule 22 applies, not just to Key Biscayne, but generally. 23 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Do we have 24 registered lobbyists here? It should be with the ID 25 county, and I know the City of Miami has a TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 112 1 2 3 4 disclosure form that is a little broader than registered lobbyist. Steve, I think we talked about it. You may want to address that. 5 MR. HELFMAN: We don't have our own lobby 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 5 13 registration process, but the county's lobby registration process is applicable within the municipalities. MAYOR CAPLAN: Okay. So point made and understood I trust. Mayor Vernon. MR. VERNON: Mr. Mayor and council. I am going to be very brief. 14 MR. HELFMAN: I apologize. I am told that 15 we do, in fact, we have our own lobby registration 16 process. So to the extent that somebody is a 17 registered lobbyist here, I think they are just 18 being asked to announce that they are. 19 MR. VERNON: And if they are not, they 20 don't have to announce. 21 MR. HELFMAN: Correct. 22 MR. VERNON: A couple of things. First, I 23 hear Pandora's box opening. I think it was last 24 meeting when you talked on this ordinance, nothing • 25 in this ordinance pertained to single family west TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 113 1 2 3 of Crandon and now I am hearing it does or it should or something. VICE MAYOR KELLY: It doesn't. 4 MR. VERNON: I understand it doesn't. 5 VICE MAYOR KELLY: It doesn't. 6 MR. VERNON: But there is a lot of 7 8 9 10 11 12 5 13 14 discussion from the council that says it should. Just a point I want to make. To address former Councilmember Fried's statement about the ZORC, Mr. Mayor, you had the privilege to chair that ZORC committee and it was the third ZORC, not the second, and we did, in fact, or you did, in fact, reduce the mass of the buildings on the sites on the west side of the 15 single family. We didn't increase them like -- I 16 don't know if Mr. Fried is still here. He's not. 17 But he stated, oh, we lost our setbacks, we lost 18 this. We didn't lose any of that. We actually 19 increased that back. We lowered the ability to 20 build that three story perceived house. 21 22 23 24 5 25 It was still only 35 feet at base flood, but I thought -- Mr. Mayor, you are not a real estate agent or an architect, are you? MAYOR CAPLAN: Uh-uh. MR. VERNON: But you chaired that TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 114 or 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 5 13 committee, correct? MAYOR CAPLAN: Yeah. MR. VERNON: Thank you. Also there has only been one multifamily project that I know of permitted since we incorporated, and that is the new Oceana. So it's not like we have been permitting multifamily projects for 20 years and come to the end of the road and now we are going to stop. As far as the Aman goes, I was, you know, unfortunately, I didn't get out to that end of the island when we visited Turks & Caicos. COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: You blew it. 14 MR. VERNON: But we were at a beautiful 15 home on the ocean, on the beach. We didn't want 16 to leave that, but I know of -- what I know of 17 them, it's an unbelievable resort, and I think an 18 opportunity if we truly want a hotel, it's an 19 opportunity to get one. 20 I think a good analogy on that article I 21 think, vice mayor, you read about the occupancy 22 rates, when the gentleman from Setai was speaking, 23 the analogy I always use to that is I relate it to 24 sports, and what is going to happen if you are a • 25 Heat season ticket holder now. Your season TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 1 2 3 4 5 6 115 tickets are going to go up tremendously, and Micky Aronson is going to lose 3,000 season ticket holders, but the amount of money he raises the ticket price for those people who renew is going to make up for those 3,000 he loses, and he will just through attrition attract more season ticket 7 holders. Huizenga did. That was his model for 8 sports. He would raise ticket prices every year, 9 10 11 12 II 13 14 15 lose, you know, ten, 15 percent of his season ticket base, and he would make the same amount or more money by raising tickets and slowly get those season ticket holders back, and, unfortunately, they are lousy product on the field now. So, you know, they have other issues than that. What is most important with this -- 16 VICE MAYOR KELLY: I don't understand how 17 that applies here. I missed the analogy. 18 MR. VERNON: No, I said -- because I 19 thought you mentioned, you were making the analogy 20 that they were only 50 percent occupied. 21 VICE MAYOR KELLY: The reason I brought 22 that up was because the owners of the Silver Sands 23 brought this expert up as someone who is going to 24 come in and manage this property and be a savior, • 25 and I just happened to thumb through there, and TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 116 1 suddenly unbeknownst to any of us, this property, 2 the Setai, had big problems. So I thought that is 3 something that the village should be aware of. 4 MR. VERNON: But I think what he was 5 referring to, and I don't want to speak for him, 6 but, you know, other hotels operate the same way, 7 is that their occupancy rate based on what they 8 charge may be greater than a hotel charging $150 a 9 night, but they are making more revenue than that 10 11 12 5 13 14 15 16 hotel operating at 80 percent. That was all I was saying. And I think what is most important about this ordinance is that you are -- and I think it's important for everybody to understand when they speak of density and construction and mass and buildings and all this stuff is that you are 17 legislating against none of that. You are not 18 saying they cannot build 150 foot high building by 19 200 feet wide and call it a hotel. What you are 20 saying is they can't build a 150 foot building by 21 200 feet wide, or whatever the dimensions are, and 22 call it a condominium. That is the difference. 23 You are only legislating use. So for somebody 24 sitting on the south side of Key Colony that is • 25 jumping for joy over this ordinance thinking TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 1 2 3 4 5 6 117 nothing is going to get in their face, that very thing, could very easily -- you are not legislating against that, and I think it's important for people to understand that because there is a lot of people that don't understand that and think this ordinance is going to prevent 7 anything from being done on that property. Just 8 9 10 11 like there's people today that think nothing was going to get built on Sonesta. So those were my only comments. Whatever you do, I just hope you guys do it. I elected all 12 of you and, you know, I sat up there for eight 5 13 years not to send my decision making to the 14 public. I hope you guys make the decision and I 15 wish you the best of luck. 16 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That is a good 17 comment. 18 MAYOR CAPLAN: Thank you, Former Mayor. 19 Yes, ma'am. 20 MS. DAVITIAN: I am sorry I am so late. 21 Linda Davitian, 720 Myrtlewood Lane. 22 In fact, the village did permit other 23 multifamily dwellings on this side of the Key 24 incorporated. • 25 Viamest was in the process with the county and then we incorporated, and basically TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 118 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Ocean Club, and Grand Bay, and the Ritz Carlton were all permitted under Key Biscayne well since we have incorporated. Secondly, for years, a number of us have asked you -- I am grateful to the councilmembers who are urging it, but we need to look at a comprehensive view of what build -out realistically 8 is going to be on this island. It will improve 9 our future planning, our school planning, and all 10 of the things that you are working so hard to 11 orchestrate. It will give us a better view, worst 12 case scenario and best case scenario. If we don't 5 13 14 15 16 17 18 look at it that way, we are doing this community a disservice and we have been living with the results of the disservice. Thank you for your time. I know this is hard work. MAYOR CAPLAN: Thank you, ma'am. 19 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: That is something, we 20 had it on the agenda. It was my item I think two 21 weeks ago and I took it off because we did get 22 late. But I think it is something. Again, it 23 goes with what Mayra is saying. I think we should 24 be looking at what is overall build -out. I think • 25 it's something, you know -- Theo Holo was the one TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 119 0 1 who came to me and said, what are we doing. We 2 have done with the 2020, but I think we could 3 update that or -- 4 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Even if we followed 5 the 2020, I mean -- 6 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: What do you mean we 7 follow the 2020? We are following the 2020, but 8 we need to look at, we need to update and really 9 understand what is build -out. What is the max -- 10 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: I think we need to 11 have numbers and really crunch it. Now just -- 12 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: That is what I just 13 said. We need to take a look at the build -out. 14 MAYOR CAPLAN: We will get to 2020. 15 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: I would like to bring 16 that as a topic. We can discuss it if we get 17 through the rest. 18 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: If I may ask, I am 19 confused where we are at this meeting. 20 We heard a presentation from the owners of 21 the Silver Sands. 22 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: That was just a 23 special presentation. 24 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: We are hearing ID 25 comments about the special presentation. These TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 0 120 1 people, are they coming back to speak to us on the 2 ordinance? I just don't know where we are. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 MAYOR CAPLAN: We are not hearing comments on the presentation. COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: I just wanted to know where we are at. COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: It's public comments. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Public comments. COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: The ordinance is on 10 the floor. It hasn't been read. 11 12 5 13 14 15 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: I know. That is what I'm saying. COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: We are just in public comment section. MAYOR CAPLAN: We are going to finish 16 public comments. Then we are going to discuss the 17 ordinance. 18 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: Thank you. I just 19 wanted to make sure we were on the same page. 20 MAYOR CAPLAN: I'll get to Mr. Goldmeier. 21 When Mayor Vernon was speaking about 22 Mr. Fried's presentation, one last thought 23 occurred to me. We didn't consider or approve a 24 variance this evening. • 25 application. We approved a site plan TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 121 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 Mr. Goldmeier. MR. GOLDMEIER: I pass. MAYOR CAPLAN: That is what I call keeping to the three minutes. Nicely done. Anybody else? MR. HELFMAN: Can I just say if you 7 intended to speak to the density ordinance, which 8 is on first reading tab five, item 9A, this is 9 your opportunity to do that. This is and was the 10 11 12 5 13 public comment and public hearing on that item. So if anybody has any further comment, the public hearing on that particular item will be closed. MAYOR CAPLAN: Going once. 14 Okay. We will close public comment on the 15 so-called density or more accurately the 16 anti -density ordinance. 17 Thank you all. 18 MS. DUQUE: Next item. 19 MAYOR CAPLAN: No, no. 20 MS. DUQUE: I'm sorry. 21 MAYOR CAPLAN: We are not to the next item 22 yet. 23 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: She has to read the 24 ordinance in. We haven't even made a motion to 110 25 the ordinance. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 122 1 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: No. I asked the 2 mayor to report on his discussions with the Silver 3 Sands people. We heard from Silver Sands. I want 4 to hear from the mayor. 5 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Okay. Sorry. 6 MAYOR CAPLAN: So February 22nd we had a 7 8 9 10 11 12 ID 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 hearing on the second reading on the HR, and at that hearing we deferred action and we established a timeout during which the Silver Sands wouldn't take any action to procure any development approvals, and during which we would meet in good faith with best efforts to try to find some accommodation of points that at that time were in absolutely perfect and irreconcilable collision because our initial proposition first and foremost was that the right number of additional dwelling units on Key Biscayne ought to be zero, and what they wanted to do was to build the maximum residential project that would be allowable under HR, which is 16 units per acre resulting in approximately 62 units of residential, a complete conflict. And second order of business for us was the 24 desire to facilitate, urge, guide, cajole, get in • 25 some way or another a hotel, which presupposed, I TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 123 suppose, that Silver Sands was going to no longer be Silver Sands. A third possibility would be status quo, but we were at second reading and taking action that would have prevented their desire to build a residential project. That is by way what got us into this sort of period of time that is just ended tonight. We 9 have met, as Carlos Cuevas said, a number of times 10 and reported last time about three council 11 meetings ago at that time on the 6th. The 12 5 13 I 14 15 16 17 meetings have accelerated and increased in pace since then because for most of the time that we have been meeting, as I mentioned previously, my part of the dialogue was no, no, no, and we weren't really getting anywhere, and I reported back previously that I was pessimistic about our 18 prospects. What changed was a decision that 19 possibly could allow for a hotel in addition to 20 some residential units as an economic driver to 21 support the development and the operation of the 22 hotel. 23 All of that work in process really 24 accelerated as the time was getting short before 25 this meeting, and you heard before you tonight the TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 o 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 124 fruits of a fair amount of effort in, I would say the past two and a half weeks or so on the part of the Silver Sands team to come up with the Aman proposal that you presented this evening. What this boils down to being right now is they wish to do a mix used project consisting of 38 units, I would like to think or possibly fewer, 38 units of condominium, 40 units of suites, 9 whatever the design is, of hotel. Not certainly, 10 but a lot of energy is going into that hotel being 11 an Aman. A restaurant, a spa as you related. The 12 overall project, as I have come to understand it 111 13 from speaking to the project architect several 14 days ago and from the development team, would be 15 somewhat under height, somewhat under FAR, and 16 somewhat under density, allowable density of the 17 existing HR. Basically, that is it. 18 They are before us tonight because they are 19 ready to become, ready to tell us what they have 20 come up with, and ready for us to consider it, and 21 because of the ordinance coming up, of both 22 ordinances coming up tonight, both the HR and the 23 density ordinance. That is basically it. 24 As Carlos said, this entire process has 25 been without commitment, without anybody thinking o TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 125 0 1 that anything that is said, the tokens, a 2 decision. I have done my best to communicate 3 every step of the way that I have no opinion on 4 this. I am just listening, and that is what has 5 6 7 come out of this. Okay? If you have any questions, I will answer 8 it, but is basically where we are at. 9 Okay? 10 Okay. Let's move on this ordinance. 11 MS. DUQUE: Next item for first reading is 12 5 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 IP 25 an ordinance of the Village of Key Biscayne, Florida, amending sections 30-33(3) and 30-73(G) of the village code of ordinances, amending the site plan review procedures to prohibit the approval of additional density in excess of density previously approved pursuant to a valid development order; providing for submittal of proposed amendments to the village code of ordinances to the qualified electors of the village; providing for requisite ballot language; providing for form of ballot and procedure for balloting; providing for notice of election; providing for effectiveness; providing for severability; providing for conflicts; and TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 126 1 providing for an effective date. 2 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Move. 3 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Second. 4 MAYOR CAPLAN: Discussion. 5 Who wants to start? 6 That was a mouthful, Jenny. 7 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: She did well. 8 MAYOR CAPLAN: Jenny is filling in for 9 10 11 12 5 13 14 15 Conchita who is not feeling well tonight. Thank you. COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Hope you are doing well, Conchita. MAYOR CAPLAN: Who wants to start? Anybody? VICE MAYOR KELLY: I usually start. I 16 would rather somebody else did. 17 MAYOR CAPLAN: Want me to pick someone? 18 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: I'll start. What 19 the heck. 20 You know, all of us here campaigned. Well, 21 except you, Mr. Mayor. You were elected without 22 campaigning. 23 This is a representative government. That 24 is what the founding fathers of the Key did. I • 25 mean, they elected a council that was an odd TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 127 1 number, seven people, a mayor. We all have the 2 power of vote. Everybody has the same right when 3 they sit on this dais. We sit down here every 4 other Thursday. All of us get a big thick book 5 that we have to read, prepare. I, myself, besides 6 reading it, meet with the manager just to try to 7 prepare myself for this meeting. There is a lot 8 of work that we do, a lot of preparation that we 9 do. 10 Taking an issue as complex as a zoning 11 issue, and putting it out to the voters, I don't 12 think is fair, and I don't think I am calling the 5 13 voters not intelligent because that would be a 14 complete lie. But even my wife, who is a very 15 well prepared attorney, you know, she doesn't read 16 or prepares herself the way we have to to deal 17 with these issues. 18 As a representative government, I am 19 really, really not against, because that is not 20 the word, but really preoccupied about having a 21 government by referendums. Referendums I think 22 should come from the people, not from the 23 government. They can get signatures. They can 24 come in to us. They can impeach us or remove us • 25 or whatever. That can be done, but us not taking TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 128 our responsibility after we have studied this, and I know all of you, and I know all of you are very, very diligent when you prepare yourself to come here, and putting this to the voters, I don't think is fair to them. So as far as I am concerned, it's a no for me. I think going to referendum is not the way we 8 were structured or what we were elected to do. 9 Having said that, the next one. 10 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Amen. 11 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: I think there are two 12 parts to this. I think there is the referendum 5 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 question, and then there is the underlying subject matter of this ordinance. I would propose a motion to amend the ordinance to withdraw the referendum portion at this time. COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: I will second that. COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: I think if we are 20 going to vote on this, I agree with Enrique. I 21 22 23 24 II 25 think that Dr. Kelly put together a petition, and I received a number from people, but, frankly, this goes back to the original, the petition for the zoning ordinance as we call it, which requires that any change in density or intensity, any TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 so 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 5 13 14 15 129 change in definitions, and I am paraphrasing, I am not quoting it specifically, but Section 415 of our charter, you know, basically was put out to the voters, and I think what happened is exactly what happened with this petition in that there is a lot of fear that gets built up in these things. People are made to be afraid, and I don't think that is the right way for things to be done. I think we can debate these things and sometimes it gets animated, but at least it's a debate between informed people, and people aren't reacting out of fear when they vote on something. You know, the language, I took issue with the language here, quite frankly, Mike, that the Oceana development will add 616 new residents, 308 16 of which will be additional children. That is a 17 supposition. It could happen. That is a 18 possibility, but it's not fact, and when it was 19 put out there as fact, I found it to be 20 intellectually dishonest. Frankly, I didn't think 21 it was fair to put that out there, and say this 22 will happen. You could have said, you know, in 23 your editorial what you said is there is a 24 possibility. Again, I am paraphrasing. I think 11 25 what you said was there is a case or there is a TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 130 1 possibility that we could have 616 new residents, 2 and that was fair. I don't think that is unfair, 3 but here when you say there will be, I think that 4 is not being fair. Just as with the ordinance in 5 6 7 2007, people said the council is trying to add density. I think this vote has to be up here. We 8 have to be the ones to do it. Whether you agree 9 with it or not, I think it should be up here. It 10 should be an informed televised debate that we 11 have and we will make the decisions. We were 12 elected. As the former mayor said, we were all 5 13 elected up here to make these decisions. We all 14 work hard to understand what the issues are, and I 15 think we should be the ones to make these calls. 16 MAYOR CAPLAN: I'll add my own reason for 17 disfavoring the referendum to solve this problem. 18 The problem is not as expressed in the petition. 19 It's too simplistic, I think, to say are we 20 suffering from the burdens and impact of 21 development. Of course, we are. It is too 22 23 24 5 25 simplistic to ask people whether they disfavor any further growth. Of course they do. The problem is what do we do about it, and to invite a result that would forestall the kind TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 131 0 1 2 3 of flexibility that thus far has enabled us to make some progress, as imperfect as it may be on difficult longstanding issues, doesn't seem to be 4 to me to be wise. We want flexibility, and we 5 6 7 want to be able to have a problem solved as best we can, and if we slam the door because of a visceral reaction that is utterly well-founded, we 8 are not serving ourselves very well. That is why 9 I am giving you back the -- 10 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Also, I think it's 11 12 5 13 a way really gauging from our constituents that they want some action, that they would rather be like in Carmel, California than a Miami Beach, and 14 that is a lifestyle choice they made. So while we 15 incorporated 20 years ago for precisely this 16 reason, to be able to control our destinies, to be 17 able to address our building and zoning issues. 18 We now are all facing redevelopment, and we 19 need to -- we have a policy that we adopted when 20 we incorporated. We have the 2020 vision plan 21 22 23 24 5 25 that gives us a philosophy or strategy for handling things, and we need to start incorporating the principles of why we incorporated. So we did inherit the development for the TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 132 1 2 3 4 5 6 Ocean Club, and for the Grand Bay, and for the other development -- UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Ritz Carlton. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Thank you, the Ritz Carlton. We then had -- were caught by surprise, 7 their pants down with Sonesta. No one thought the 8 redevelopment would happen so quickly. We were 9 completely unprepared, and now we see that the 10 village has evolved even more than we could 11 possibly imagine. The demographics, the sheer 12 demographics. We have from snowbird and retirees 5 13 to full time residents, and many more families 14 than we ever expected. So I think this is a 15 reaction, and people are urging us to take 16 affirmative action. I don't mind taking 17 affirmative action, but I am tired of sitting 18 around and contemplating what should be done, and 19 I do think we need a strategy, and whether it's 20 several steps, that is fine, but we do need to 21 take an action. We do need to draw a line in the 22 sand. 23 We have, you know, in our 2020 vision plan, 24 we have target properties that were identified as • 25 targeted and prime for redevelopment. They are no TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 133 0 1 surprise to us. It's the entry corridor, which 2 has recently been purchased. It's the Harbor 3 Plaza, the Esplanade. There are two additional 4 properties that I think are prime for 5 redevelopment. The Arcade Mall, 20 Crandon, and 6 these are just commercial, but also in that 2020 7 plan, it identifies all of Sunrise and all of 8 Galen as prime for redevelopment. 9 We have right now, and I believe, Jud, is 10 the two buildings that are unoccupied. 101 11 Sunrise, is that currently occupied? And 285, 12 which is a rather large building. That is 5 13 VICE MAYOR KELLY: Is that 304? 14 MR. KURLANCHEEK: 303 Galen. 15 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: No, 285 Sunrise. 16 It's the old -- it's the old project. 17 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: No one is living 18 there, and then what on Galen? So we currently 19 have properties, multifamily properties that have 20 no occupancy, and they have a right to rebuild and 21 develop in some way, and if we don't get a hold of 22 a holistic approach to creating what we want to 23 maintain and value this community and the village 24 feel, then we are just -- we shouldn't be here. • 25 We are not doing what we set out to do. So we TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 1 2 3 4 134 really need to take a step back and analyze, and it's funny, the homeowners, they see a change. They want it addressed, and they see what is going on around them, and they have their very valid 5 points. They are absolutely right, but the people 6 in the condos on the east side feel that same 7 density, feel that same pressure, and so we need 8 to address both sides of the island, but we need 9 10 11 12 5 13 14 to not just think about it. We really need to take action. MAYOR CAPLAN: Raging agreement. Raging agreement. So the merit in this ordinance is that it's actionable, but it's not really effective action. 15 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Well, I think it's 16 a first step. 17 MAYOR CAPLAN: It's a step. 18 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: We clearly need to 19 do additional things. We need to -- I think the 20 building plan is absolutely necessary. I think we 21 need to readdress zoning. I think we need to 22 reconvene a ZORC or get some kind of outside 23 consultant that can help us with that. 24 MAYOR CAPLAN: You know who is great at • 25 that? Mayor Vernon is right. On February 22nd, TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 1 2 3 4 5 135 our conversation kind of didn't allow this point to be as fully realized as we have come to realize it, and, you know, the school board really helped make this point when they pointed to our population growth over the last -- between the 6 last census and this census. It was all organic. 7 We built a unit in 20 years. We didn't permit, 8 Ms. Davitian, the projects that you mentioned. We 9 downsized them, but we didn't permit them. 10 MS. DAVITIAN: You permitted them. 11 MAYOR CAPLAN: They were initially 12 5 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 permitted under Miami -Dade County and they came back -- MS. DAVITIAN: Not all of them. MAYOR CAPLAN: -- with changes. MS. DAVITIAN: Just the BMS property. MAYOR CAPLAN: I think the Ocean Club and Grand Bay both. MS. DAVITIAN: Well, BMS included the Ocean 20 Club, but the Grand Bay was done later and it was 21 done -- I know the developer. He did it all, and 22 he did less than he could have done because he 23 lives in the community and feels that way. 24 MAYOR CAPLAN: I mention this because we • 25 haven't built a unit in all of this time, and our TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 136 • 1 population growth is -- 2 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: But it is 3 straggling up going one by one, and just going 4 through the motions is not going to work. 5 MAYOR CAPLAN: I agree with you. 6 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: It's not going to 7 work, and we need to take affirmative action. 8 MAYOR CAPLAN: I think one of the great 9 things is we welcome all of this. So what do we 10 11 12 • 13 14 15 do about it is the question, but I think about whether it's a ZORC or something else, it's actually a broader question. We started to talk a little bit about this when we were talking about the vacation rental rates, which we did under dire pressure, part of 16 our own making. The issues that the gentleman was 17 speaking about at Botanica are analogical. They 18 tried to do head count limitations in bedrooms. 19 We do need to study this and we need to come up 20 with some kind of responsive solution because we 21 are getting -- 22 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: But in the 23 meantime, do we control density and pass this 24 ordinance? Do we do a moratorium on building? Do • 25 we start an analysis? I mean we just - TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 137 1 MAYOR CAPLAN: Jim. 2 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Well, to address 3 the issue at hand, which is whether to amend this 4 ordinance to take out the referendum portion. 5 6 7 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: That is all we have spoken to. COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Right. That is 8 what we are talking about right now. We are not 9 talking about the ordinance itself. 10 MAYOR CAPLAN: Right. 11 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: But as far as the 12 amendment is concerned, I have no problem making a III 13 decision myself here, but, quite frankly, I feel 14 that this is a fundamental change or decision to 15 be made by this village. I have no problem taking 16 this to referendum and let the voters decide the 17 issue. 18 MAYOR CAPLAN: What issue? 19 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: And that is whether 20 or not to put a cap on density, and this density 21 myself to the east side. 22 When we get into discussion about the 23 ordinance itself, I would like to discuss the 24 Silver Sands. • 25 I would like to discuss whether other properties are involved and so forth, but as TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 138 1 2 3 far as the amendment that has been proposed by Councilmember Davey, I personally think we should go to referendum and let the voters decide. 4 It took a four to three vote just to get 5 here. So even the council is somewhat split. 6 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Right, and informed. 7 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: That is why I think 8 it perhaps should go referendum. I think it's 9 very clear. I think the voters can understand the 10 issues and make that decision. 11 VICE MAYOR KELLY: With regards to 12 referendum, I am in favor of referendum for two 11, 13 reasons. First, because as Jim has so eloquently 14 said, I think the voters need to weigh in on this, 15 and the other aspect of this is if this ordinance 16 were to pass, it is merely an ordinance, which 17 could be changed by the subsequent councils. It 18 could be changed as early as November when three 19 new councilmembers come up here, and I think if it 20 was given the weight of an overwhelming voter 21 populace, the council may be a little less apt to 22 change it. 23 I also think it may provide some legal 24 protection should the developers try to start a 110 25 lawsuit because, again, you have the entire TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 II 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 5 13 139 community speaking for this proposition, for this ordinance. So for those reasons, I would be in favor of maintaining the referendum as part of this ordinance. MR. ECHEMENDIA: Mr. Mayor, it's just a question. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Are you asking the council? MR. ECHEMENDIA: Yes, absolutely. I was going to the chair. MAYOR CAPLAN: Go ahead. MR. ECHEMENDIA: I am a little confused 14 because there is some discussion. Procedurally, 15 you have an HR ordinance and you have a density 16 ordinance. There is some discussion. 17 On the density ordinance, if you read the 18 density ordinance, it's a referendum ordinance. 19 If you carve out the referendum, what you get is 20 basically a moratorium. I am just trying to 21 22 23 24 II 25 understand and see if you carve out the referendum, you really have no ordinance other than language that says you can't approve anything, that nothing beyond what has been approved pursuant to an existing development order TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 140 1 can be exceeded, and that doesn't go to 2 referendum. So, in effect, you are adopting a 3 moratorium. That is more of a question than a 4 comment, but I think that is what the ordinance 5 gets converted into. Can you just help everybody 6 7 8 understand what happens if you remove the referendum? MR. HELFMAN: It's the same identical 9 ordinance. It just only becomes effective with 10 voter approval if it goes to the vote of the 11 electors, and if it doesn't, it becomes effective 12 on second reading. It's the same identical 5 13 ordinance. The effect of it is no different. The 14 voters' approval means nothing in terms of the 15 substance. So whatever its impact is, it is. The 16 voters can't change that. 17 MR. ECHEMENDIA: Understood. My question 18 is if you carve out -- the discussion seems to be 19 whether to take it to referendum or not. 20 MR. HELFMAN: Right. 21 MR. ECHEMENDIA: If Mr. Davey's amendment 22 23 24 5 25 passes, which means it doesn't go to referendum but you adopt the density part, are you in effect adopting a moratorium? That is, there is no additional density beyond what has been approved TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 141 1 under existing site plans? That is a question. I 2 3 4 am asking for the benefit of the council and the audience. MR. HELFMAN: It's not a moratorium. 5 Development can occur. There is just a limitation 6 on how many units can be built on particular 7 properties that come forward, but it doesn't stop 8 development. It may have the effect on any 9 particular property of limiting how many units, 10 but there is no moratorium. 11 MR. ECHEMENDIA: Fair enough. Just wanted 12 to -- because it's a little confusing when you 5 13 carve out the referendum. 14 MS. HUBER: Follow-up question. Doesn't 15 this have to go to a referendum under the existing 16 charter because it deals with density? 17 MR. HELFMAN: No, because it's not 18 increasing the density. 19 MS. HUBER: It's a change. It doesn't 20 necessarily say increase under your charter. 21 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: That is just 22 23 24 5 25 argument, but I think it increases density or intensity used. VICE MAYOR KELLY: Also changes in definition. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 142 0 1 2 3 4 MS. HUBER: Right. That is why -- MR. HELFMAN: We haven't changed the definition. MS. HUBER: Okay. 5 MAYOR CAPLAN: New district. 6 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: The lawyers are 7 confused by this. So let's understand it. 8 MR. ECHEMENDIA: That is what I am talking 9 about. All right? That is what I am saying. 10 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Well, lawyers. 11 MR. HELFMAN: Your lawyer is not confused. 12 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Exactly. 5 13 MAYOR CAPLAN: Any other discussion on the 14 motion to remove the referendum portion of this? 15 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: This is going to be 16 short and sweet. I have been against this from 17 the get -go, so I am not going to go through it 18 again, and the reason is because if this -- again, 19 I need to change my e-mail, but, you know, this 20 thing that went out, and I believe it was 21 generated by Dr. Kelly, was exactly the reason 22 this thing can't go to referendum because the 23 facts in it are untrue. I believe totally untrue, 24 and we are going to have the postcards again of III 25 New York City. It will be delivered to everyone's TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 143 so 1 home. 2 3 4 5 So, again, if I am reading this as not a councilmember, but strictly as a citizen, I'm going to sign this thing, and I'm going to sign it, and I am going to sign again because I don't 6 want any more development. I don't think anybody 7 up here wants more development. Again, to me, 8 it's about property owners rights. 9 I'm totally against this. I would be 10 11 12 5 13 opposed against Mike's amendment, but that doesn't mean that may not pass, but, again, the voters, the way this is going out, I mean, I got e -mails from people that live in Wisconsin for God's sake 14 on this thing. They are not even residents of the 15 island. 16 I am a little perturbed about this, but, 17 again, I have been against it. I'll continue to 18 be against it, and that is where I am on this 19 thing. So without wasting any further time. 20 MAYOR CAPLAN: Let me mention one other 21 thing that is on my mind. You pointed out the 22 23 24 5 25 defense of it. It has some probable strength and I'm aware of it What is on my mind, though, is if we don't change what -- something is going to change at TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 or 144 1 Silver Sands probably. The property has not been 2 invested in in a long time. It's getting rather 3 tawdry. It's not likely that it's just going to 4 stay the same whatever we do. Something is going 5 to change. The zoning for that site allows a 150 6 foot tower on a small parameter. If we want to 7 guide a better outcome on that site, we have a 8 chance to do so. I know this is true. None of us 9 in our heart of hearts want one more unit. I know 10 that is true, and I don't need a referendum to 11 know what the people out there want in terms of 12 growth management. Anybody who has lived here for 5 13 more than three minutes knows the answer to that 14 question. But if we are going to have a voice in 15 this outcome, which we can, I wouldn't think it 16 optimal to foreclose that possibility by 17 referendum in part because of what I said earlier. 18 The question asked is going to be very susceptible 19 to a positive vote because the visceral reaction 20 is everybody is opposed to density as are all of 21 us, and if it goes down on that basis, you know, 22 we are going to be stuck with a 150 foot tower on 23 the footprint. 24 VICE MAYOR KELLY: Mr. Mayor, I just have 25 to answer one thing, and that is Councilman TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 145 • 1 2 3 Gusman's statement that my petition was full of untruths, I challenge you to pick out one untruth other than Councilman Davey's remark that it 4 should have said may rather than will. Other than 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 the number of potential residents in Oceana, I want to know one thing that is untrue there. Because it's one thing to challenge me for your personal beliefs, but to call me a liar, I don't accept. COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: I don't think a liar came out of my mouth, Mike. 12 VICE MAYOR KELLY: You said it was untrue. ID 13 You said there were multiple things that were 14 untrue, and I want to hear what they are. 15 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: I am saying 616 new 16 residents and 308 sounds pretty arbitrary, very 17 arbitrary, specially when someone, and this may be 18 no fact either. I don't know. Again, e -mails 19 coming across like crazy. 20 But I have got another thing where if you 21 take the Miami -Dade County public schools facility 22 administrators, the student generation multiplier 23 for Key Biscayne multifamily units is .11. So not 24 six hundred -- not -- let's take Consultatio. • 25 That would be 17 new students, not 308. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 146 1 So you understand my concern is when 2 someone sees this coming across their e -mails -- 3 VICE MAYOR KELLY: You believe there are 4 going to be 17 new students? 5 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: I didn't say I don't 6 believe. I think that sounds a little crazy, but 7 I certainly don't think there is going to be 308. 8 MAYOR CAPLAN: Let me do this. 9 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: All I am saying is I 10 remember the flyers of New York City scared the 11 12 5 13 heck out of everybody. People sat in front of Winn -Dixie outside. Mr. Mayor, let me talk. At least you let 14 the public. Please, may I? 15 MAYOR CAPLAN: I just want to keep this on 16 subject. 17 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: It is. I don't see 18 how it can be more subject. I'm talking about -- 19 MAYOR CAPLAN: You are talking about the 20 veracity of the petition. You made your point. 21 22 23 24 5 25 You are making your point about that you think it's incorrect. COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: Then it is answered. I will leave it at that. I'll say it again. Never did I call TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 147 1 Dr. Kelly a liar. That was never my intent. My 2 intent was I don't think -- I think this was sent 3 out. I just -- I don't think there is truisms in 4 this e-mail that went out. Okay? And I'll leave 5 it at that. Whether they are fact or whether they 6 7 8 are not, I don't think Dr. Kelly can show me facts on this either. VICE MAYOR KELLY: If you really want to go 9 there, the 12,000 residents in one square mile, 10 that is a fact. That the population density 11 greater than Detroit, Cleveland. 12 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: Absolutely. 111 13 Absolutely. 14 VICE MAYOR KELLY: That is a fact. 15 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: Absolutely. 16 VICE MAYOR KELLY: Key Biscayne's 17 population has increased by 17 percent over the 18 last ten years. That is a fact. 19 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: Absolutely. 20 VICE MAYOR KELLY: The number of children 21 under 18 has increased by 35 percent. That is a 22 fact. KBCS is at 130 percent capacity. That is a 23 fact. 24 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: Actually, I called • 25 and looked. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 148 0 1 VICE MAYOR KELLY: The village green is 2 bare with dirt and rocks. That is a fact. 3 Parking is difficult at the Winn -Dixie and the 4 community center. That is a fact. 5 6 7 Do you want me to keep going? You have one number. COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: Will you put order 8 here, Mr. Mayor? This is ridiculous. 9 10 11 VICE MAYOR KELLY: Don't tell me those aren't the facts. COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: Put some order. 12 MAYOR CAPLAN: Enough. Let's get back on 5 13 the subject at hand. Let's get back on the 14 subject at hand. The subject at hand is whether 15 we remove the referendum from the ordinance. 16 Let's try to keep our tempers. You made 17 your point. You made your point in response. 18 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Can I call the 19 question. 20 MS. DUQUE: There is a motion on the floor 21 by Councilmember Davey to remove any language 22 referring to referendum. 23 24 • 25 MAYOR CAPLAN: And the resulting effect will be? MR. HELFMAN: Let me just so everybody is TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 149 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 clear what you are voting on. Currently, this ordinance if it passed by you would only become effective, it would go out to the voters and it would only become effective if the voters approved it. There is a motion to take out the voter 7 approval provision. So that it will either pass 8 or fail here, and that will be the end of it. 9 Okay? It will end here with your vote either on 10 11 12 first or second reading, but it will not move on to the voters if you decide to take that provision out. III 13 So you are voting now to take out the 14 provision, the motion is to take out the voter 15 approval provision in this ordinance. 16 MAYOR CAPLAN: As Councilmember Garcia 17 related, there is an initiative provision in the 18 charter. Right? 19 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: Correct. 20 MAYOR CAPLAN: If the residents wanted to 21 bring this question up for the electors, there is 22 a procedure to do so. 23 MR. HELFMAN: They could. They could. 24 VICE MAYOR KELLY: There is also the • 25 ability for the council to bring something to the TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 150 0 1 electorate. 2 MR. HELFMAN: Yes. 3 VICE MAYOR KELLY: I just want to point out 4 5 6 7 8 9 the irony of those who speak against the council doing that when, in fact, they sent an item out to referendum when it was about the second vote on the charter change, and it was the one time that the people had spoken and the council used that opportunity to use their power to send it back 10 again. The irony of people saying now, we should 11 12 ID 13 never send something to referendum is mind -boggling. COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: The council never 14 sent out a disinformation campaign such as the one 15 proffered in 2007, such as this petition. That is 16 my concern. 17 I have no problem. The people of this 18 community are intelligent. 19 VICE MAYOR KELLY: Is there a vote? Is 20 there a vote? 21 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Excuse me. Mike, I 22 have allowed you to speak. Quite frankly, the 23 people I knew who signed this petition I called 24 and said, hey, why did you sign this petition. 5 25 And they said, well, I am against density. I TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 151 1 said, you take a poll of this council. Everybody 2 is against increases in density on this council. 3 Everyone of us, as the mayor has eloquently said, 4 does not want to see increases in density. This 5 6 7 is not the right way to do it. I don't agree with it, and I explained my position. They said, oh, I hadn't thought of it that way. The problem here, 8 as I stated to you before, when you start telling 9 people that it will add 616 new residents -- 10 MAYOR CAPLAN: We made that point. 11 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Well, but I want him 12 to understand that is the real issue. III 13 VICE MAYOR KELLY: What does that have to 14 do with the referendum? 15 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Because when 16 information is put out there that is not honest, 17 it's disingenuous, that doesn't truly tell all the 18 facts -- Mike, your thing about the twin towers at 19 the end of the island was ridiculous. 20 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Wait a minute. 21 MAYOR CAPLAN: Let me stop this right now. 22 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: I have a 23 different - 24 MAYOR CAPLAN: Let me stop. There is 5 25 nothing in this petition that is disingenuous. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 152 1 2 3 4 There is a supposition that there is probably a reach because it reaches a conclusion that is not founded in empirical data. COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Correct. 5 MAYOR CAPLAN: That is the one thing. All 6 right? 7 Is there something you want to add? 8 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: You know the 9 reality is we have several properties that will 10 once they are occupied increase density. So the 11 reality is we will continue growing. It's how we 12 5 13 14 are going to control that growth and how we are going to try to maintain the village feel. As Jud confirmed, Sunrise 101, completely 15 empty. Sunrise 285, completely. Galen 304? 16 MR. KURLANCHEEK: I think it's 303. 17 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: 303, completely 18 empty. So we will have growth and we will have 19 more children in the school. So it's not a big 20 stretch, and I think that what people are 21 concerned about is the constant redevelopment and 22 growth. 23 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: But that time can be 24 addressed through reasonable manner and not • 25 through hysteria. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 153 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Well, but I think -- COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: The question has been called. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: I think people are smart enough to take it for face value and make their own decision. MAYOR CAPLAN: Let's call the question. MR. ECHEMENDIA: Mr. Mayor, can I just one last thing? COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: I believe in the people in this community. Sir, we are having a conversation. 14 MR. ECHEMENDIA: I understand. I didn't 15 mean to interrupt. 16 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: I believe in the 17 people. Don't ever suggest that I don't. I 18 always believe in the people. 19 MAYOR CAPLAN: I have done this three 20 times. Here is the deal, ladies and gentlemen, we 21 are going to remove the rancor from this 22 discussion, and we are going to have a temperate 23 conversation about the substance of this 24 ordinance. We are not going to be bringing the • 25 disingenuity of the petition. We are not going to TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 154 so 1 be bringing up the inevitability of growth. We 2 all understand that. We are not going to bring up 3 everybody's frustration who is out in this 4 community because we all get it. We are as 5 frustrated as they are. Okay? 6 7 8 We have a question before us. Let's take the poll. COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: Mr. Mayor, can I add 9 something? I do have a concern about what this 10 gentleman just brought up if we do change, if we 11 amend this. How does it affect? 12 MR. ECHEMENDIA: Could I clarify, 5 13 14 15 Mr. Mayor, what the point is? It's a very important legal point. COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: How does it affect 16 this first reading? Now I am really confused. 17 Explain. How does -- if we take out that it won't 18 go to the electorate -- 19 MR. ECHEMENDIA: Robert, can I explain 20 something, please? 21 The Silver Sands has a development order 22 approved by the county. If you adopt this without 23 the referendum, just read what it reads. It says 24 no site plan, no site plan shall be approved which • 25 would permit any development which would result in TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 155 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 an increase in residential density in excess of the density previously approved for the subject property by a valid development order. That means you kill the prospect of an Aman. We are limited to the Silver Sands as it exists today. MAYOR CAPLAN: We are not having -- MR. HELFMAN: We are not at the motion on the ordinance yet. We are talking about -- let's 10 talk about what we are talking about. Okay? 11 The issue is not the substance of the 12 ordinance right now. We will get to the substance 5 13 14 15 16 of the ordinance, and you can vote it up or down. Right now it's simply whether or not once you vote -- if you vote the ordinance down, it is never going to the voters anyway. 17 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: Correct. That, I 18 understand. 19 MR. HELFMAN: So it will never come up. 20 All right? But what this issue is is if the 21 ordinance should pass, this is a decision that 22 under no circumstance will it go to the voters 23 even if it passes. This is a decision where a 24 majority of you may say, you know what, even if we • 25 pass this ordinance, it stays here. It is our TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 • 156 1 decision. It's not going to be a voter decision. 2 We are not going to send this out into the 3 village. 4 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: Do we then rehash 5 the whole thing again and vote again? 6 MR. HELFMAN: You haven't hashed it out. 7 8 9 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: I think we hashed out a heck of a lot. MR. HELFMAN: There is a whole hashing out 10 that has gone on as to whether or not the voters 11 should get the issue. That has been a discussion 12 here. Okay? And the public has spoken to the 5 13 substance of the matter, but for right now, Bob, 14 the only issue that you should concern yourself 15 with is: Do you want the voters to get this 16 matter if you should approve it, if you should 17 approve it, but you haven't approved it yet. 18 Okay? I'm not sure that you will. You may not. 19 There may not be four votes here to approve it. 20 What has been placed on the table is just 21 the concept of, basically, what has been said is 22 under no circumstances does the mover of this 23 ordinance want it to go out to the public for a 24 vote. Even if it should pass, it has to be an • 25 action of this council and it ends there. The TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 0 157 1 responsibility is with this council, not with the 2 voters. Okay? 3 So you are doing nothing on the substance 4 of the ordinance right now. You are simply saying 5 it's not going to go to the voters, and then we 6 will vote on what we think of it. 7 MAYOR CAPLAN: All right. 8 MS. DUQUE: Roll call. 9 10 11 12 5 13 14 15 16 17 Vice Mayor Kelly. VICE MAYOR KELLY: Is yes, meaning that it's -- COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Yes is for -- MR. HELFMAN: Yes means you would like it to go to the voters. COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: No, no. Yes is to amend the ordinance. VICE MAYOR KELLY: No. 18 MR. HELFMAN: I'm sorry. All right. 19 MS. DUQUE: Councilmember Lindsay. 20 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Yes. 21 MS. DUQUE: Councilmember Taintor. 22 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: No. 23 MS. DUQUE: Mayor Caplan. 24 MAYOR CAPLAN: Yes. ID 25 MS. DUQUE: Councilmember Davey. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 158 1 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Yes. 2 MS. DUQUE: Councilmember Garcia. 3 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: Yes. 4 MS. DUQUE: Councilmember Gusman. 5 6 7 8 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: No. COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: That was about the most bizarre vote. MS. DUQUE: Motion carries. 9 MAYOR CAPLAN: Do you have the feeling that 10 what we just voted on -- I have a feeling we got 11 lost in the essence of that issue. 12 You did. I did. I am not sure. 5 13 14 15 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: How many votes did we get yes? COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: It died. 16 MS. DUQUE: It was a four three, so the 17 motion carries. The voters permission will be 18 removed. 19 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: You got lucky. 20 MR. HELFMAN: It's not what you wanted to 21 do. 22 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: Now we go to the 23 substance of the ordinance? 24 Now we go to the substance. 10 25 MAYOR CAPLAN: All right. One of the TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 159 1 things about taking this step is to take a step. 2 It's, you know, symbolic. We have difficulties 3 4 5 6 7 taking the important steps, probably no different from a lot of institutions and governments, and I think there may be merit in having a whole new look at density as a result of changes because we have used the analogy of the meeting or heading 8 the PUDs for example. I am not sure that we have 9 a clear answer what can get rebuilt. I know we 10 have a clear answer on what we wish that outcome 11 to be, which is either the same or fewer units. 12 We are not dealing yet with population. We are 5 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 5 25 only talking about units. So I think that some device to address this as part of a larger discussion about the points that we have been talking about tonight that include population is probably important. What I don't want, and I think would be a mistake is to not consider whether this proposal that these people have brought forth has any merit and whether it results in something we actually like, whether it might make for a better outcome if there is inevitability of change at the Silver Sands anyway, and to divest ourselves of a voice in this or a possibility of influencing what TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 0 1 2 160 happens there because of a density cap ordinance or, frankly, the HR ordinance passes they can't do 3 this. At least if you take at face value what the 4 gentleman said from Setai. So as it stands 5 6 7 tonight, I don't want to foreclose what we might think is a good option. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: We can always 8 speculate about what the best outcome is going to 9 be. I mean, as it stands now, we have three empty 10 condos that will be redeveloped. 11 12 5 13 14 15 The difference with this property is that it has never been a condo, and, actually, I asked Jud a question about the master plan, and whether we actually could approve any more units, and I would like to get that answer because it is pretty clear. 16 MR. KURLANCHEEK: I think let's start with 17 the three buildings that you mentioned. 18 Redevelopment can mean occupancy the way they are. 19 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: I meant 20 specifically with Silver Sands. 21 MR. KURLANCHEEK: Under the Silver Sands, 22 there is a variety of apartment to hotel mixes. 23 You can go to a maximum of 116. 24 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Under the density IP 25 requirements of the master plan, what is TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 161 lo 1 acceptable without going into any options, just 2 without giving alternatives? 3 MR. KURLANCHEEK: You can go to a 62 unit 4 apartment building or you can have 116 hotel 5 rooms, and then depending on the mix of that, that 6 varies. So you can go to 50 hotel or 34 7 apartments or you can go to 75 hotel or 22 8 apartments, but there is a mix. 9 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: There is a 10 requirement to meet concurrency, though. Can they 11 meet concurrency? 12 MR. KURLANCHEEK: We have been looking at 13 concurrency from two points. One is what is the 14 village's requirement for concurrency. 15 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: The village, what 16 is our concurrency? 17 MR. KURLANCHEEK: We are short right now 18 somewhere over six acres. 19 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: So could you 20 without getting a kind of variance or an option 21 give a CO? 22 MR. KURLANCHEEK: They would have to go the 23 same route that the Consultatio project went. 24 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: If we granted that. • 25 That was an alternative. But if we choose not to TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 162 1 give an alternative, where are they at? 2 MR. KURLANCHEEK: Well, there -- Steve, 3 maybe you want to help. There are certain items 4 dealing with the one year from CO date that the 5 village has to be apprised. 6 VICE MAYOR KELLY: The site plan we 7 8 9 approved tonight for that building said that they met open space concurrency because it didn't apply to them because going down -- 10 MR. KURLANCHEEK: Going to correct. 11 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Yes. 12 VICE MAYOR KELLY: But that would not be 5 13 true in a site plan presented by these people. 14 MR. KURLANCHEEK: Exactly. 15 VICE MAYOR KELLY: So we would have to 16 somehow ignore our own criteria to approve a site 17 plan for that project. 18 MR. KURLANCHEEK: You would have to look at 19 the same way you approved the site plan for the 20 Consultatio. 21 MR. HELFMAN: You would have to exercise an 22 23 24 5 25 exception that is within your comprehensive plan and code to allow them to build, and the lack of capacity for a public park land would preclude them from getting a development order, a site plan TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 163 1 approved. You don't currently have sufficient 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ID 13 capacity, and the law as it applies in this community would preclude the issuance of a site plan approval today. There is a mechanism in your code and comp plan which is in your discretion that would allow you to override that, which is really what was done in the Consultatio project where you overrode the prohibition and allowed the project to go forward and basically said that concurrency should be met a year after CO. VICE MAYOR KELLY: That was done by -- MR. HELFMAN: That was done by the previous 14 developer, not by Consultatio and the previous 15 commission. So that is how they overcame the 16 problem, but that, again, is within the discretion 17 of this council. 18 If they just proceeded forward through a 19 normal process without the exception being 20 granted, they could not get a development order 21 today. 22 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Because the master 23 plan prohibits it. 24 MR. HELFMAN: Because there is insufficient • 25 capacity in particular with regard to public open TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 164 1 space. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 5 13 14 VICE MAYOR KELLY: They wouldn't meet concurrency. MR. HELFMAN: Right. MAYOR CAPLAN: That's parks in that, an open space. MR. HELFMAN: Yes. MAYOR CAPLAN: There was something that I noted somewhere along the way today as I was thinking about this. On hurricane evacuation, is our mandate under comp plan to reduce density for hurricane evacuation? MR. KURLANCHEEK: It would be very 15 difficult for the property that was zoned 16 commercial, and you rezone multiple family, and 17 justify how you do that because of our 18 requirements for hurricane evacuation. When you 19 are looking at those criteria, you want to 20 eliminate as best as possible any new residential 21 development because residential development has to 22 evacuate and the difficulties with that where a 23 hotel guest gets on the next plane. 24 MR. HELFMAN: One of the premises of this • 25 ordinance, and one of the goals and/or policies of TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 our comprehensive plan is that we will restrict any new residential development in order to not create a greater burden on hurricane evacuation. That has always been in the comprehensive plan. It is one of the basis for adopting this ordinance and one of the whereas provisions, if you will, that supports if you wanted to pass this ordinance that would support a density cap or density limitation. MAYOR CAPLAN: Apart from the whereas 11 clause, are we debarred because of the -- 12 MR. HELFMAN: You are not debarred. It's 5 13 not concurrency regulation, but it is a goal 14 policy and objective. If someone wanted to 15 challenge the issuance of the site plan, they 16 could claim that you acted in violation of your 17 comprehensive plan because you issued a 18 development order that authorized new development 19 which was inconsistent with your comprehensive 20 plan which says you are not going to do that. 21 MAYOR CAPLAN: Got it. 22 VICE MAYOR KELLY: If this proposed hybrid 23 Aman development - 24 MR. HELFMAN: Yes. • 25 VICE MAYOR KELLY: -- were presented to the TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 166 1 Dade County public schools -- 2 MR. HELFMAN: Yes. 3 VICE MAYOR KELLY: Through the same process 4 5 6 that the developer went through tonight, would they approve that? MR. HELFMAN: They would ask for their form 7 of mitigation. They would extract a financial 8 contribution from them and then allow them to 9 proceed forward. 10 MAYOR CAPLAN: We discussed this 11 theoretically. They have a number anticipating 12 whatever we might do. One possibility is that 5 13 this thing could get approved. They attributed a 14 number of the additional seats that would be 15 required if this thing is built and there is a 16 worsening involving awful impact. 17 MR. KURLANCHEEK: We had a conversation 18 with the staff of Dade County dealing with the 19 site. He said that there would be some kind of 20 impact fee associated with this because they do 21 not have any existing residential development. 22 MR. HELFMAN: They are not in the stop 23 development business. They are in the get paid 24 per development business. • 25 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Yeah, yeah. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 0 167 1 MAYOR CAPLAN: By the way, that impact fee, 2 so think in terms of impact fees being correlated 3 to a solution to the impact. It is also true that 4 there are no solutions to some impacts. 5 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Well, that is my 6 concern is that there are no solutions. You know, 7 that we are maxed out. We cannot create more 8 land. 9 MAYOR CAPLAN: To be honest -- 10 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: We are landlocked. 11 That is the biggest problem. If there were a 12 solution, I would -- I am a practical person, but 13 at some point on an island that is one and a half 14 miles, you know, one and a half square miles, you 15 have to acknowledge that you are maxed out, and I 16 think, you know, everyone feels that way, 17 including the residents that signed the petition 18 and were not frightened. They know and they are 19 intelligent people and they understand that they 20 are maxed out. They go to the grocery store. 21 They go to the fields. 22 VICE MAYOR KELLY: Let me take a second and 23 just add onto that. Okay. First of all, this is 24 the copy of the 580 signatures that were done by • 25 today, and earlier I think someone made the point TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 168 1 that they were from Wisconsin. You guys can look 2 through this. You will see that every signature 3 has a town associated with it. There may be a 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 5 13 handful, so someone won't say I am being intellectually dishonest, there may be handful that came from off the Key, but it's less than one percent. Secondly, I want to read some of the comments that people put with their signatures. One says, while this won't affect Oceana, it will hopefully send a message of limits need to be set and the council and mayors have grown too close to real estate connections while neglecting the needs 14 of residents. Growth can be good. Too much of it 15 on a small scale destroys the beauty we all come 16 here for. 17 Another person wrote, this is absolutely 18 necessary. Our streets, our schools, our parks, 19 our community center, our grocery store, our 20 parking capacity are all overgrown. This is a 21 matter of self-preservation for ourselves and our 22 children. Permitting an increase in population 23 24 • 25 together with insufficient public facilities, private infrastructure and space will result in a decrease in property values and quality of life. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 169 0 1 The benefits to the community of an additional 2 residential builder are much smaller than the 3 cost. We have to be reasonable and avoid being 4 5 6 guided by money and consider the overall welfare of the residents. What is interesting to me is these don't 7 seem like unintelligent people. These do not seem 8 like people who were fooled by a petition that 9 appealed to emotions. These seemed like the 10 11 12 5 13 14 15 16 comments that I hear on a daily basis from people who are concerned about the island that they live in, and I just want to make the point there has been a lot of bad things ascribed to this petition, but it really is the voice of your community who all came out in a week's time to try and let this council know how they felt. 17 MAYOR CAPLAN: I absolutely agree with 18 that. I absolutely agree with that. This is 19 broad speaking. No question about it. 20 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: Are we discussing 21 the merits now? Are we into -- because I am 22 23 24 5 25 confused with this meeting again. And I say, where are we? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Good, Enrique. COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: We are now into the TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 170 0 1 2 3 substance. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Correct. COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: Okay? Whenever you 4 give me a chance, let me have a word. 5 MAYOR CAPLAN: It sounds like you have the 6 floor. 7 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: Yeah. We are all 8 fed up with the growth that happened here, but at 9 the same time, there is property rights. At the 10 11 12 5 13 same time, every property here has been downsized. You might say it's every property that is up for redevelopment has been downsized by the units. We talked about this property that came in tonight. 14 They have 30 apartments. They have 31 bedrooms. 15 They are going to have 33 beds, my understanding, 16 if I add the whole thing correctly. 17 At the same time, the Silver Sands has been 18 here for 40 years. Everybody knows that that is 19 an HR property. Everybody knows here that is a 20 dated property. Everybody knows that that mix had 21 a residential component. This is not a surprise 22 for anybody. To go back and rezone this, only one 23 property we are rezoning. That is block zoning. 24 We are not talking about anything else, and the • 25 component that they have brought in today, I TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 so 1 2 3 4 171 think, is a great solution to where we have to go. We can sit here and bicker and fight, but as Mayra said, all these properties are going to be redeveloped, and as Mayor Vernon said, we would 5 not have to block whether we like it or not. It 6 might be a hotel. It might be an apartment 7 building. So we have to try to negotiate 8 something down that will bring something to the 9 community that has the ambiance and the spirit of 10 the community that we want, and I think these 11 people are on the right track. They have shown 12 something that is going in the right track. I 5 13 cannot vote on anything that limits property or 14 people's rights. I am an immigrant. I think the 15 only immigrant on this table -- were you born in 16 Cuba and came here? Okay. That is two of us. We 17 all came here because it was a disaster where we 18 were; our safety and our property rights. 19 What we are trying to do here is act like 20 God and government on this property, and I think 21 it is wrong. They are entitled to the rights that 22 23 24 5 25 they have had for 40 years. We are not just doing a whole district. We are doing one property, and that is my say. I will vote no for it. It's your chance now. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 172 1 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Mr. Garcia, I just 2 want to redirect. You were talking about the 3 4 5 density ordinance and not the property, and I think the issue that is being discussed is that this density ordinance discusses or affects all 6 redevelopment. So that is why it's important. 7 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: When the word 8 9 10 11 12 • 13 density comes in, Mayra, I look at a 120 room hotel and a 38 room luxury apartment and they are talking about, I don't know, 5,000 square feet plus and a 40 hotel room, you know, high class, I think that will bring a lot less density and traffic than a full-fledged hotel will be. 14 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Part of the -- 15 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: I am not finished. 16 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: I am sorry about 17 that. 18 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: I live right next to 19 the Ritz and so does Mike Kelly. I mean, 7:00 in 20 the morning food trucks are coming in. 7:00 in 21 the morning workers are coming in. There is all 22 sorts -- when there is a party, traffic. What 23 does a hotel bring? A big hotel. That is what it 24 brings into the mixture. IP 25 These people have proposed something that makes sense. I would TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 173 1 strongly recommend that we study this because this 2 makes sense, and this is our time to run with it. 3 That is my opinion. I humbly put it on the 4 5 6 table. I will respect, of course, what you guys decide. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: One of the things 7 that a hotel, if that were the way we would go, 8 would bring in is business to our merchants. That 9 has always been discussed as an incredible impact 10 that has been missing since the Sonesta closed. 11 I am not saying -- again, I am discussing 12 density in general, but I am just also, you 13 know -- 14 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: I believe that is 15 true that it fits the hotel because that hotel is 16 going to be fed by one street. That is density 17 for you. 18 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: But you bought there 19 knowing the Ritz was there. 20 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: You bought when the 21 Ritz was there, and you bought there when the 22 Silver Sands was there. Since I started real 23 estate 20 years ago, everybody has been thinking, 24 after Andrew, when is the Silver Sands going to • 25 redevelop. It's a dated property. They have kept TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 174 1 it well. They met all our codes. They have been 2 unable to pay the taxes, but it's a dated 3 property. That property will go whether we like 4 it or not, and if we want to have a green space, 5 then, you know, increase your taxes and maybe make 6 it into a park. That is the only -- but 7 infringing on property rights, it is terrible, and 8 we are going to do that, we will have to pay them 9 for it. 10 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Well, we have had 11 zoning in progress for how long? 12 MAYOR CAPLAN: Five years. 5 13 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: After they bought 14 this property. They have been owners of this 15 property for over 20 years. 16 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: We are allowed to 17 rezone. 18 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: I understand, Mayra. 19 Okay. Mayra, I don't want to -- please, go ahead. 20 I expressed my opinion without quizzing you. I 21 just -- let's express our opinion and go on with 22 it. Then call the vote. 23 I mean, we are all neighbors. I have to 24 say to Mike. You know, Mike Kelly and I fight • 25 here every time. I have to wash up. I think I TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 Is 175 1 have cancer on my skin, and he very nicely comes 2 by. I trust him blindly as a father, as a doctor, 3 and here we disagree at everything. So let's stop 4 the bicker now, express our opinions, and vote. 5 MAYOR CAPLAN: Yes. Part of the 6 conversation is that if something is perceived 7 differently or something is perceived incorrectly, 8 we are supposed to say so. That is how we have a 9 lively conversation. 10 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: I have two points, 11 two issues with the ordinance. The first issue I 12 14 15 16 have is that, you know, when this was drafted, it was, in fact, in my opinion drafted to affect the one property, the Silver Sands because the hotel was considered to be, and that is coming up for second reading, but it was considered that could 17 be found to be, I don't know, illegal. I don't 18 think that is the word, but could be overturned by 19 a court. So I think that is why this ordinance 20 came forward, and that was my initial concern with 21 this ordinance in that it affects one property. 22 But I think, and Mayra actually brought it 23 up before, there is a larger problem here that 24 needs to be addressed. We need to figure out, and • 25 the people from the west side -- I don't like TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 176 1 calling us the east side and the west side, but 2 it's the easier way to do it. The people from the 3 west side are coming up saying, hey, we are having 4 real problems with density too. You know, these 5 are going up. They are huge and the people of the 6 7 8 east side have their own issues. We really need to step back, and look at what the real issues are and how do we efficiently 9 address them. The way we are doing it now by 10 11 12 5 13 saying we can't approve anything, what is the impact of this ordinance on all those properties? We don't know what that impact is going to be. I think if we are going to do this, let's 14 do it right. Let's look at all the impacts, and 15 then come to a decision. I don't think this is 16 the right way to do it. I understand we want to 17 react, but I often think that a knee jerk reaction 18 is not always the best way to go. 19 The way this thing was created was not 20 looking at the whole east side, honestly. It was 21 looking at one property. How do we prevent this? 22 I don't think it's the right time for this. I 23 24 5 25 think if we go forward, if we start looking at these condominiums, and start saying how many people are in and how much FAR is being used right TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 177 • 1 2 3 now, how many units are in. I think we have to do more studying on everything in order to make an educated decision 4 for this community. I don't think this is the way 5 to go. 6 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: We are in a 7 8 9 10 11 catch -22 because if we don't set our guidelines, if we don't draw our line in the sand, there is always going to be discretion, and there is always, you know -- MAYOR CAPLAN: I am feeling a conundrum and 12 I'll share it. Maybe this will lead to an idea. • 13 14 15 16 My conundrum is I don't want one more unit, and the second part, I fully appreciate the magnitude of the property generally, and I understand that this ordinance doesn't really -- 17 is aiming at the wrong target. We have a 18 different issue than this ordinance really 19 addresses. It's a step, but it's really not an 20 effective step. 21 VICE MAYOR KELLY: I wouldn't say it's 22 ineffective, not an effective. It may be 23 incomplete. 24 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Correct. We have • 25 to do more. It's a first step. It's a first TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 178 o 1 step. 2 MAYOR CAPLAN: Better said. 3 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: May I tell you a 4 story? 5 MAYOR CAPLAN: The other point is I don't 6 know what is going to happen to the Silver Sands. 7 I want there to be no residential units. I have 8 been consistent in my speech on that point 9 forever, and I haven't changed my mind. I am also 10 pragmatic. I just don't know where this is going 11 12 11 13 14 to wind up, but I wouldn't want to kill whatever merit might lie in this proposition without seeing whether we can make it better, whether we can, you know, realize the benefits, and minimize the 15 detriments or eliminate the detriments. I don't 16 know, but I don't want to kill it. 17 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: I have to tell you 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 • 25 I was under the impression when extended or we gave an extension to this, the HR issue, and that this ordinance has evolved because density has been such a big -- is a hot issue, but I thought that the marching orders, you know, there would be a contract at hand, and I just think it's all great idea, and nothing concrete, and I just think, once again, we can put things off forever, TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 I 1 2 3 4 179 and we are still not with five years of zoning in progress, and it's all sorts of issues that we haven't addressed, and I think the density ordinance is a great first step. 5 VICE MAYOR KELLY: I also want to applaud 6 7 8 9 Mr. Helfman because I promoted the hotel only aspect that we are going to consider in the second reading, and he looked at the picture globally, and said, hey, you know, you guys have been 10 talking about this for a long time. Why don't you 11 look at something that addresses the problem 12 globally instead of just focusing on that one IP 13 aspect. I said, boy, the light bulb went off in 14 my head. I say, you know what, that makes sense. 15 So I don't think that the idea that 16 Councilman Davey promoted that this was just a 17 reaction to the HR district being undefendable is 18 really the case. I think it really was very 19 insightful on his part, and it showed historically 20 how this has been a concern of this community for 21 a long time. That we as a council have an 22 opportunity to do something. Now doing something, 23 one thing I learned after four years is doing 24 something up here is hard. You know, it would be • 25 great if I was the only vote, but some people TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 180 1 would regret that, but, you know, trying to get 2 any consensus is difficult, and things take a 3 long, long time. It's like we are trying to 4 influence an elephant sometimes. 5 So, you know, Joe Biden said, you know, 6 don't compare me to the almighty. Compare me to 7 the alternative. It's easy to look at this 8 ordinance and say, you know, Barry Goldmeier says 9 it's a nefarious plot to go after the single 10 family home. Buzz says it's Pandora's box, you 11 know. Meanwhile, Ceci says, my God, we are not 12 doing enough with this. We need to be going after III 13 the single family homes. 14 It's impossible to craft something that is 15 going to please everybody. All right? 16 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: At once. 17 VICE MAYOR KELLY: At once. I think this 18 pleases a lot of people. I think my petition 19 shows that. I think the community shows that. Is 20 it perfect? Absolutely not. Does it go far 21 enough? I don't know. I think there is virtue in 22 23 24 III 25 taking baby steps rather than trying to do something global mainly because I don't think it's ever going to get done, but also you are most apt to make a mistake. If you can focus your TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 181 1 2 3 attention to one thing, maybe you are going to make a better choice there. So, you know, I kind of see where we are 4 headed. Councilman Davey often says I count the 5 votes and I know where we are headed. 6 You know, this probably won't pass. I 7 8 9 think, once again, the will of the people is going to be ignored, and I know there is those who would differ with that statement, but I think it will. 10 You know what? It is sad to say, I think people 11 say, don't shirk your responsibility by sending it 12 to the people. I think we may be shirking our II 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 responsibility by not passing this, and I think, once again, the people are going to have to band together, and go to the Winn Dixie, and collect signatures, and take it to referendum just like they have in all the situations where they wanted something done, and the council wouldn't do it for them, and we are going to see this on the ballot. My concern is that may happen before the Silver Sands gets their ducks together and goes ahead and builds the, you know, the 64 residential units. 24 MR. CUEVAS: Thirty-eight. 5 25 VICE MAYOR KELLY: Eighty-eight? TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 182 • 1 MR. CUEVAS: Thirty-eight. 2 VICE MAYOR KELLY: But I have no assurance 3 that we are going to -- we have nothing except 4 talks between you and the mayor. I have no 5 assurance that come -- and we ask you not to do 6 anything for the two months period. Well, that is 7 over. So I have no assurance whatsoever that you 8 don't already have a buyer, and that you are going 9 to go to Jud on Tuesday with a development plan 10 under the existing code and all this could have 11 been a ruse. I have no assurance of that, and 12 that is my concern. • 13 If we don't pass this tonight, it all could 14 be a ruse. It could all fall through, and then by 15 the time the citizens get their act together and 16 do what the council should have done, one more 17 giant condo, one more building like Max Puyanic's 18 postcard, which everyone says is far-fetched, but 19 the Oceana project looks an awful lot like one of 20 those buildings on that postcard. 21 MR. CUEVAS: What would you like to see on 22 the land? 23 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: Sir, you are out of 24 order. 111 25 VICE MAYOR KELLY: So that is my concern. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 183 I 1 2 3 4 5 6 I know where we are going, but I feel better having gotten it out, and if anybody in the community wants to work on going towards on referendum on their own, I will be happy to help them with it. COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: Frank, I have to -- 7 MAYOR CAPLAN: Go ahead. 8 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: If I may. 9 Dr. Kelly, I'll tell you what. You know, 10 11 12 ll 13 I this thing you sent out, it could say restrict additional residential density on the Village of Key Biscayne period, and you would have 500 signatures. I guarantee it. However saying that, 14 if those 500 people, if those 500 people had 15 Mackle homes and you were to say to those 500 16 people, this is going to include your Mackle home, 17 you cannot sell it for any more than you bought it 18 for, would they still be for this? I think the 19 500 would say, are you kidding me. I mean, you 20 are now taking away my property rights. That is 21 my right as a homeowner out here. Fair value. I 22 can get what I can within the law of Key Biscayne. 23 We are doing the same thing to these people, and I 24 think it's wrong. I am telling you, there is no 25 doubt in my mind that -- I am surprised you only TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 184 o 1 got 500. I thought you would get a thousand. 2 Okay? And you don't need to say all this other 3 stuff. It could have just been five words. 4 Restrict additional residential density. You 5 would have gotten it. But I hope those people 6 know that they could be next. They could be next. 7 8 9 10 11 VICE MAYOR KELLY: Let me ask you a question. COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: Or what? It couldn't happen, Mike? COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: I don't think so, 12 no. 10 13 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: How? Tell me how. 14 You just heard it from three people out here 15 today. We are looking west. I would agree with 16 Buzz. Be careful what you ask for. 17 VICE MAYOR KELLY: When the council took 18 away the ability to build duplexes on Fernwood 19 Road, they infringed upon the property rights of 20 homeowners. 21 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: And I would have 22 been one hundred percent against that. 23 24 I) 25 VICE MAYOR KELLY: Yet the council did, and the council did. COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: I don't agree with TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 185 I 1 it. 2 MR. VERNON: I have to to say something. 3 That is only because 24 of the 26 homeowners 4 sitting here asked us to do it. 5 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That is right. They 6 came. 7 MR. VERNON: That was the only reason that 8 was done. It wasn't taking away anybody's 9 10 11 12 • 13 14 property right. Just real quick question. I know -- I would -- thank you, Mr. Mayor. VICE MAYOR KELLY: Well, but that means that two didn't. MR. VERNON: Right, and they weren't here. 15 VICE MAYOR KELLY: We are talking about one 16 here. 17 MR. VERNON: But the two weren't here. 18 VICE MAYOR KELLY: Yeah, but that doesn't 19 matter. 20 MR. VERNON: I am just saying. 21 VICE MAYOR KELLY: It doesn't matter. If 22 we did that in favor of a single property owner 23 MR. VERNON: Is there vested rights 24 provision in this ordinance? 111 25 MR. HELFMAN: No. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 186 1 MR. VERNON: Well, I respectfully ask that 2 you put it in. Because I can tell you right now, 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 like Councilman Gusman just said, you can take that to virtually every single Mackle owner whose -- and I can march in -- every person that is building a house out here today, every developer, and they will tell you to a person, they will not pay a million three if they can't build what they are building. 10 VICE MAYOR KELLY: With all due respect, 11 this has nothing to do with the ordinance. 12 MR. VERNON: I understand that. That is 5 13 why -- 14 VICE MAYOR KELLY: This has nothing to do 15 with the Mackle owner. 16 MR. VERNON: There should be a vested 17 rights. 18 MAYOR CAPLAN: Let me tell you where I 19 stand. 20 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: That is just fear 21 mongering is what it is. 22 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: This petition has to 23 do with Mackle owners, though. There are a ton of 24 Mackle owners. I looked in your list. I probably • 25 know a dozen of them, and they are Mackle owners TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 187 • 1 that signed this petition, Mayra. 2 VICE MAYOR KELLY: You are talking about 3 speculation to the nth degree here. Now you are 4 saying what they might think it says. That is far 5 6 7 more different than what people signed this petition thought. COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: Michael, I'm saying 8 people signed this out of -- I would sign it out 9 of fear of density. 10 VICE MAYOR KELLY: All right. We are not 11 12 11 13 I) 14 15 16 17 18 talking about the petition. COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Let's call the question. MAYOR CAPLAN: This has no effect on single family homes. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: No. Yeah. It's fear mongering. MR. HELFMAN: By the way, just so you 19 understand what Buzz was referring to, which is 20 not unusual. A vested rights provision or a 21 taking provision is not unusual when you pass 22 something like this. To the extent that somebody 23 believes that an ordinance like this shouldn't 24 pass, would be denying them some particular 25 special vested rights that they had, okay, they TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 I) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 0 13 14 188 would have a right to come forward to a set time period, let's say 180 days or something, where they could come in and put forward a case that said, hey, I have a special right to build here. Either I hold a permit or you are taking my property rights by virtue of this ordinance, and they would come before this council to try to establish those rights, and you would have an opportunity on an individual basis to look at a Silver Sands or whoever it might be, because this applies to all properties, almost all properties, and they could plead their case before you. So it wouldn't be an absolute. It would give some relief to a property owner who would want to make 15 their particular case. That is what he was 16 saying. 17 MAYOR CAPLAN: There is a variation on 18 that. I love taking steps. It's great to take 19 action, even if it's imperfect, because we are 20 moving forward. We are making progress, but I 21 don't want to kill this possibility if we don't 22 have to, because it might be a good one. It might 23 24 110 25 turn out to be something that would be beneficial. So your point about, you know, shame on us if they sell it tomorrow, they permit something TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 189 I) 1 that is 62 units. We ought to be pilloried. 2 To your point that within this period of 3 time maybe we expected something more tangible -- 4 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Something. 5 MAYOR CAPLAN: We don't have it. 6 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Nothing. 7 MAYOR CAPLAN: What we have is what we 8 have. So what about continuing this process with 9 the same standstill in place. The analogy, what 10 11 12 14 15 Steve just said is -- I don't mind taking a step. I would rather conclude it, but I don't mind talking a step, but I don't want to kill this possibility. So how can we save this possibility, take a step? MR. HELFMAN: You have done that before. 16 You have done it with the HR. You pass it on 17 first reading. You don't set a date for second 18 reading. It keeps it alive, but you leave 19 yourself the opportunity to continue to discuss 20 it. 21 If you take no action, it dies. If you 22 23 24 5 25 want to keep the -- if you want to keep this alive, you pass on it first reading. You don't set a date for second reading, and it will take on the life of the HR ordinance basically, which has TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 190 I) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 just been perpetuated over time. You can bring it up at any time, and set it for second hearing if for some reason you feel that you have come to a point where there is no progress being made. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: It is first reading. MAYOR CAPLAN: It doesn't come back for second reading, not because we pass it being confident but because there is always something that causes it to be deferred until called. 12 MR. HELFMAN: Yeah. It's first reading. 5 13 This is not the adoption we are hearing. If you 14 want to keep the possibility of this alive, then 15 you pass it on first reading, and just don't set a 16 second reading. 17 MAYOR CAPLAN: Maybe that helps take 38 18 units and turn them into something less than 38 19 units, which I would favor. 20 But I want to tell you further -- 21 VICE MAYOR KELLY: It also gives a stick, a 22 carrot stick to the Silver Sands. 23 MAYOR CAPLAN: I don't know. I have said 24 this a lot, and I wrestle with this. We have a 5 25 lot of problems and we identified them in various TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 191 I 1 ways tonight. I am not sure that 38 additional 2 units is among them. I am not sure that that is 3 4 5 6 not utterly against the question in the grand scheme of things, but I think we all discern where the community is on this whole grand problem of being victimized by our own success even when we 7 live out here. The second homes that have turned 8 9 10 11 into primary residence is a phenomena that we have had for years, years, and years, and it's not going to stop. COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: Shall we call it? 12 VICE MAYOR KELLY: Jim hasn't -- 10 13 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: Oh, Jim. 14 MAYOR CAPLAN: Go ahead. 15 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: I have been trying 16 to speak for the last half an hour. 17 VICE MAYOR KELLY: He has been very polite. 18 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Good luck with 19 that. 20 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: You know, Steve, 21 you stole my thunder because I was going to point 22 out to council that this is just the first 23 reading. This ordinance does not pass tonight. 24 It doesn't become effective until after the second 25 reading. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 192 o 1 VICE MAYOR KELLY: We had a deadline when 2 3 4 it was going to referendum. We don't have a deadline any longer. COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: That is correct. 5 Personally, you know, I think that we 6 should vote for this ordinance. I agree it's a 7 first step, but I also agree with the mayor. I 8 9 10 11 12 11 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 don't want to close the door on the Silver Sands. If there is some way we can pass this ordinance and X out the Silver Sands, because this ordinance affects every building on the east side of the village, and, obviously, we are going to have to address the left side. That is going to be another story. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I hope so. COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: But this is the first step. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Yes. COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: And I think that we 20 ought to proceed, you know, and pass this 21 ordinance. I think Councilman Davey has a good 22 point. We probably need to do some additional 23 studies on it. That can be done between the first 24 and second reading. 111 25 It also will give us maybe some time to deal with the Silver Sands, because, TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 193 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 you know, their idea of a 40/40 or 40/38 split where most of that 38 quote/unquote residential units are really a hotel arrangement where we really get a number of hotel units, not just condominiums, I think that is something that perhaps can be worked out. So I say pass this on the first reading, you know, and we will go from there. 9 MS. DUQUE: I apologize for interrupting, 10 but we need a motion to extend the meeting. 11 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Motion to adjourn. 12 MAYOR CAPLAN: There is an item that we 5 13 14 15 16 have to hear tonight. Can we stay for 15 minutes? COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: I make the motion. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Second. COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: Second. 17 MAYOR CAPLAN: All in favor. 18 (All councilmembers responded aye.) 19 20 21 MAYOR CAPLAN: Thank you, sir. Opposed. Just a point of qualification. Okay? My 22 point is the reason to keep the Silver Sands 23 24 111 25 proposition alive is because it may be a meritorious proposition. We just heard about it for the first time, but if it's not this TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 194 1 proposition, I am not sure I feel the same way 2 about another proposition. So it's sort of this 3 proposition that is on the table, not another, 4 this. 5 And, secondly, we have had this standstill 6 agreement that I think by mutual sense has 7 expired. Will you continue it if we have this 8 continuing process between now and whatever 9 happens next? 10 MR. CUEVAS: Which means? 11 MAYOR CAPLAN: Which means don't go seeking a building permit for 62 units in residential. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Sixty-four. COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: Sixty-two. 15 MR. CUEVAS: Well, if the real effort here 16 is to induce a hotel in our site, why is it that 17 we need to extend more time? Vice Mayor Kelly 18 just said, actually, he just said he doesn't want 19 to see more, you, know words in the air. We 20 should proceed to, actually, to site plan. That 21 is what he wants to see, actually. You all want 22 23 24 II 25 to see a site plan submitted so we can proceed. MR. HELFMAN: He is suggesting that he would come forward with a hotel, a joint hotel apartment site plan. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 195 1 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: That is not what I 2 just heard. That is not what I heard. That is 3 4 5 not at all what I heard. COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Let him clarify. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Please do. 6 MAYOR CAPLAN: Carlos. 7 MR. CUEVAS: We have been talking about a 8 proposition of a mixed use hotel, 38 units 9 10 11 12 5 13 14 15 16 residential and 40 hotel rooms. That is what I am talking about. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Oh, okay. Now it is clear. MR. CUEVAS: I am sorry I wasn't clear. MR. HELFMAN: That is exactly what he is saying. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Okay. Good. 17 MR. HELFMAN: He doesn't want to be 18 precluded during this holding period from actually 19 acting on his commitment and bringing forward a 20 real project. 21 MAYOR CAPLAN: This project. 22 MR. HELFMAN: This project. 23 MR. CUEVAS: We are talking about the mixed 24 use. That is the only project. So far, I think Ili 25 everything that we said that we were going to do TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 196 1 we did, and that is what we are standing on. 2 MAYOR CAPLAN: We made progress. 3 MR. CUEVAS: Yes. 4 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Carlos, I thought 5 you were going to come with a contract. 6 MR. CUEVAS: What? What was that? 7 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: I like things in 8 writing with signatures. 9 MR. CUEVAS: Yeah, but under this threat, 10 we can't do much to be honest. It is more of a 11 partnership and alliance with the city in order to 12 move forward. We just want to know your reaction, 5 13 and see if you really want -- I mean, we have our 14 concerns of property rights, and the whole 15 procedure, and being under threat. It has not 16 been easy for us. 17 MAYOR CAPLAN: This has not been an easy 18 process. 19 MR. ECHEMENDIA: Mr. Mayor, if I may, just 20 a point of clarification. Where are we in light 21 of what Carlos said? I just want to make sure in 22 terms of a standstill that there is a reciprocal 23 standstill. 24 MAYOR CAPLAN: We are going to probably -- • 25 we are going to call this question. If this TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 197 passes, my qualification on this, and I have one other comment before we take the vote or question before we take the vote, is that in some effective way, whatever the words are, allow for the possibility of this particular project that was described tonight to continue to be negotiated. I am still not happy with any units, and I'm trying to work around that intellectual hurdle and practical impediment for me. We all, I think, had a favorable reaction 11 up to a point at least. The point being concerns 12 about additional residential density. So I think • 13 I 14 15 16 in sum what I would like to do is continue the process that we have been on, and give this a chance to come back before council with something more tangible as a proposed final solution. 17 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Before we put to 18 the second reading. 19 MR. ECHEMENDIA: Correct. So I think just 20 to restate that, I think what we would like to do 21 is -- I think we can probably come back with a 22 development agreement that incorporates a project 23 that hopefully is acceptable. Probably need about 24 90 days to do that. So there would be a -- 25 neither of these two ordinances would come back TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 198 0 1 for a less than 90 days. However, if we had 2 something that we can move on before the 90 days, 3 we can bring that before the council in terms of a 4 development agreement. 5 Steve, does that make sense? So, in other 6 words, if the ordinances would not come back for 7 second reading for another 90 days, giving us 8 90 days to continue to work with the mayor, but if 9 before the 90 days we conceptualize a development 10 agreement that we all think mutually we can move 11 forward on, then we can bring it to council. Is 12 that a fair statement? 5 13 MAYOR CAPLAN: It's a fair statement. The 14 only thing I think would be also desirable as 15 progress is made, I would like to bring it back 16 for my colleagues and for the community generally, 17 so everybody can see where this is going. 18 MR. ECHEMENDIA: Absolutely. 19 MAYOR CAPLAN: And if we just decided at 20 any point along the way that we are never going to 21 get there, then I think some advance notice would 22 be appropriate. 23 MR. HELFMAN: I think the way we ought to 24 proceed is that if either party at anytime over 5 25 the next 90 days determines that in their own TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 so 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 5 13 II 14 15 16 199 discretion, determines that continued discussions are just futile, that they provide 30 days notice, and that they can take whatever actions they feel are appropriate. You can file an application. We can reset the hearing, and we move forward. So that we would just give each other a 30 day notice. We are going to move forward, reset a hearing. They are going to give us 30 days notice that they intend to take whatever action they want, file an application for it here, for a site plan or whatever it is they feel they want to do. MR. ECHEMENDIA: That works for us, Mr. Mayor. MAYOR CAPLAN: If the 30 days falls -- we have a summer break. If the 30 days doesn't give 17 us time until our next regularly scheduled 18 meeting, I would like it to be 30 days or the next 19 regularly scheduled meeting, whatever happens 20 later, so we can have a meeting. 21 I don't anticipate this happening, but 22 rather a contingency plan. 23 MR. ECHEMENDIA: Understood. Your point is 24 well taken. 25 MR. HELFMAN: So we are talking about a 90 TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 200 1 day period in which we are going to continue to 2 work with the developer, and try to come up with a 3 development agreement, plan of development. I 4 would say a plan of development for the property, 5 a mutually agreeable plan of development. 6 If at any time either of the parties 7 determine that we are going nowhere, they can 8 provide the other party notice on 30 days if they 9 intend to abandon these discussions and go in 10 their respective ways. 11 MAYOR CAPLAN: I think that is desirable 12 from my point of view. 5 13 MR. ECHEMENDIA: We are in agreement with 14 that. 15 MR. HELFMAN: I think that is fair. 16 MAYOR CAPLAN: All right. My one 17 question -- 18 MR. HELFMAN: Yes. 19 MAYOR CAPLAN: Moving along to the next is 20 the section not exceeding the limits established 21 in the zoning district regulations, except as 22 provided in the comp plan. We will get to the 23 clause about provided in the comp plan in a 24 second. As established in the district regs. • 25 Does this say what we want it to say? TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 1 2 201 Because what is established in the district regs includes, for example, the alternative 16 units 3 per acre. So it's not what is established. It's 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 5 13 o 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 what exists, what is built or what, you know. What I am getting at is are we really protecting the density cap that we think we are if we refer to what is established in the district regs because that is the very problem. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: That is the very problem. MR. HELFMAN: Wait, wait, wait. You are doing what has all been done. Understand, we haven't touched anything here. Okay? This is not language we are touching. Let's look at the density standard at seven. Let's not go back and start messing with language that is already in the code that we are not dealing with. We do this very often. I show you part of an ordinance. MAYOR CAPLAN: You are right. You are 22 right. 23 MR. HELFMAN: And you guys want to retweak 24 it. Okay? Let's just deal with paragraph seven. 25 Okay? No site plan shall be approved which would TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 202 1 permit any development which would result in an 2 increase in residential density in excess of the 3 density previously approved for the subject 4 property by a valid development order. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 5 13 MAYOR CAPLAN: You have answered my question. MR. HELFMAN: Okay? That is the simple thing we are doing. MAYOR CAPLAN: You have answered my question. Any other comments? COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: No. MR. HELFMAN: By the way, you are not the 14 only council that does this to me. I don't want 15 to show anything but just the little piece. 16 MAYOR CAPLAN: Let's do this. 17 MS. DUQUE: Roll call for the ordinance as 18 amended. 19 Councilmember Lindsay. 20 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Yes. 21 MS. DUQUE: Councilmember Taintor. 22 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Yes. 23 MS. DUQUE: Mayor Caplan. 24 MAYOR CAPLAN: Yes. • 25 MS. DUQUE: Councilmember Davey. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 203 0 1 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: No. 2 MS. DUQUE: Councilmember Garcia. 3 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: No. 4 MS. DUQUE: Councilmember Gusman. 5 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: No. 6 MS. DUQUE: Vice Mayor Kelly. 7 VICE MAYOR KELLY: Yes. 8 MS. DUQUE: Motion carries. 9 MAYOR CAPLAN: Thank you all. 10 Manager, we have to get to your item. 11 MR. GILBERT: Mayor and council, if I may, 12 II 13 I 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 sometimes success brings challenges and urgency in this item that I wish to discuss tonight, and I will be bringing forth a formal resolution on Tuesday. What has happened is we have been very successful, and we are pretty close to completion the beach renourishment project, but because the system is just completed, it's a preconstruction biological survey and the preconstruction beach profiles, based on the results of these surveys, there has been additional beach erosion since the beach was designed utilizing the 2010 monitoring 24 data. Therefore, additional beach fill is 25 required. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 204 1 Concurrently, there have been changes in 2 the sea grass growth, which further require beach 3 4 5 6 7 fill redesign. Five percent contingency was included in the original bid as to the construction contract with the project as beach renourishment projects are routinely adjusted due to the dynamic beach 8 environment. We brought this to you attention. 9 The original contract schedule value is 10 total $1,569,875. Unfortunately, that contingency 11 is being utilized for seaweed removal, and based 12 on the additional needed tonnage, we are III 13 requesting, rather proposing 9700 more tons of 14 fill to fill the templates that are required to 15 complete the project. This is an increase to the 16 original contract value of $283,053.75. The 17 additional fill replacement would require 18 approximately five to eight working days and will 19 not or should not impact the 45 day construction 20 schedule that we are normally undergoing. 21 I am gong to have Tim Blankenship step 22 forward and give you a brief overview. I wanted 23 this out there now for discussion. 24 The meeting of July 3rd is extremely tight 25 with a lot of other important matters, but I so TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 1 2 3 4 205 wanted a discussion to take place now so you could understand what the resolution would be to the new proposal. MR. BLANKENSHIP: Good evening, Mr. Mayor, 5 councilmembers, Tim Blankenship with Coastal 6 Systems International. I will be very brief here. 7 I know it has been a long night. 8 So far, I do know the trucks have been -- 9 the project has been going very smoothly. We are 10 getting about a hundred trucks per day. Right 11 now, we have about 31,000 tons on the ground as of 12 Friday. There were no deliveries yesterday. So • 13 we are still at around 31,000 tons. 14 Our total contract value is about 15 47,000 tons. We are very, very close to coming 16 into our contract tonnage by around Monday or 17 Tuesday of next week. That is the reason why it 18 is cutting so close on this July meeting. So 19 we wanted to get some additional feedback from the 20 council on these additional quantities. 21 Another challenge I wanted to discuss with 22 the council is the ongoing seaweed. We have not 23 been receiving any complaints, any concerns from 24 residents or beach goers about the ongoing • 25 construction operations. It has been a very safe TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 206 1 2 3 operation. We haven't had any issues, no complaints. The village has received a lot of 4 complaints about the seaweed. Last week the 5 6 7 8 9 seaweed, the buildup of the seaweed at the beach started to impact the construction schedule. There is so much seaweed we can't, the contractor is not able to place fill in the surf zone such that it was starting to impact the construction 10 schedule. We met with staff on Wednesday of last 11 week and authorized the contractor to bring in 12 additional equipment to supplement the universal 5 13 so tractor. So you may have seen a big dump truck 14 out there and heavy equipment loading up seagrass, 15 seaweed. They worked through the weekend. Now 16 they are about caught up. 17 The village manager mentioned there was a 18 contingency, about five percent contingency 19 because the beach system is dynamic. 20 Unfortunately, more fill is required to complete 21 the beach and we have had to tack that contingency 22 for the additional work associated with the 23 seaweed. I talked to the contractor tonight 24 before the meeting. I think that we finished up 25 with the additional seaweed removal. By the way, TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 207 1 in terms of the seaweed removal, Miami -Dade Parks 2 has been cooperative and very supportive of the 3 project. They have allowed the contractor to haul 4 the seaweed to the handling area. It's like a 5 recycling area there in Crandon Park. So that is 6 going very smoothly. Public Works has been 7 8 9 10 11 working very, very carefully and closely with Miami -Dade County on it. So as the village manager said, based on the surveys that we have done, we need about 9700 more tons and that is going to be increasing the 12 contract unit price to 283,000. We had about 5 13 $74,000 in the contingency. We are probably going 14 to eat up about 15,000 of that or so with the 15 seaweed removal. So that is about a net of about 16 $63,000 left. So hopefully, you know, the overall 17 net cost to the village is going to be around 240, 18 the net increase, depending on the final tonnage 19 that is actually used. 20 So we also are going through the permits. 21 We have had to initiate permit modifications. We 22 are about three quarters of the way through permit 23 modifications. We have moved forward with that. 24 We hope to have those modifications next week. We IP 25 are on a very, very tight time frame, and our firm TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 208 1 has incurred additional costs of about $24,000 to 2 get those permits modified. The advantages of 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 having the permits modified is you will have permits out to akin to ten years for the 37,000 tons. So, again, we are going to try to keep the net increase of the project as low as possible to around $240,000 over the 1.5 million contract. So with that, I will open up to any questions. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: What is the status 12 on the sand testing in the Sonesta, on the Sonesta 111 13 property because once if it's viable and it's 14 excavated, we are going to actually have to store 15 it. So if there is a doubt that in one year, is 16 it worth waiting? 17 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Well, in terms of the 18 unit cost right now -- 19 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: I thought there was 20 going to be sampling of the sand. Has that been 21 done yet? 22 MR. GILBERT: Yes, that is done, and it's 23 compatible with our beach sand. Of course, that 24 subsurface reservoir, that will be sand and can be ID 25 put on our beach. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 209 so 1 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: When is that 2 excavation projected for? 3 4 5 MR. BLANKENSHIP: You mean when is it supposed to start? COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Yep. 6 MR. BLANKENSHIP: The last discussion we 7 had with Consultatio and their general contractor, 8 which is Coastal Construction, that might start 9 around September 2012. 10 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: This September. 11 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Yes, it may. 12 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: May. 5 13 MR. GILBERT: It has been pushed back a 14 number of times. It's not having difficulty. 15 It's just been pushed back. 16 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: No, no, that is 17 fine. I am just wondering, you know. I like to 18 be efficient. 19 MAYOR CAPLAN: Is it an opportunity? 20 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Is it an 21 opportunity? 22 VICE MAYOR KELLY: This is about a 20 23 percent cost overrun? 24 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Additional. It's not 5 25 really an overrun, additional scope. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 210 1 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: I would like to 2 know how we can miss 100,000 tons. 3 VICE MAYOR KELLY: I feel like we are a 4 bait and switch almost. You know, they get in, 5 6 7 and now we have to cough up some more money just to finish it. COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: A 100,000 tons is a 8 chunk of sand. It's costing us another $300,000. 9 Yes, maybe you can get it down to 240, but, I 10 11 12 5 13 14 15 16 mean, that is a heck of a miscalculation, I am sorry, no matter how you want to blame it. I think Mayra's idea of why should we dole out another $240,000 for a 100,000 tons of sand, which I assume that amount of sand is available at the Sonesta project, and if it's going to be available come September -- 17 MR. GILBERT: We are not talking a 100,000 18 tons of sand. All right? We are talking the 19 original was 45,000. We are having to put down an 20 additional just short of 10,000. That is item 21 one. 22 To do, and I can certainly support 23 anything, but logistically should this sand, 24 should it become available in September, then we 5 25 have to bring back the heavy equipment. We have TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 211 el 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 to do everything that we are currently doing within the scope of a separate contract just to take that sand that they we are going to pull out of the ground and put it in the staging area for us now to spread onto the beach like you are currently seeing. So, overall, it will be somewhat more 8 expensive. I did not look into that. What I 9 looked into was keeping the same trucks under the 10 same timeline with the same equipment utilizing 11 the sand that we would have to purchase additional 12 to get here and get it out on the beach within the 111 13 ten or 15 days if council approves my 14 recommendation next Tuesday evening. 15 VICE MAYOR KELLY: What happens if we don't 16 approve? 17 MR. BLANKENSHIP: We stop the project 18 around Tuesday, and you will have a smaller beach. 19 MS. DUQUE: I apologize, we need another 20 motion. 21 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Motion to extend 22 another 15. 23 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Second. 24 MAYOR CAPLAN: Second. • 25 All in favor. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 212 0 1 (All councilmembers responded aye.) 2 MAYOR CAPLAN: Opposed. 3 VICE MAYOR KELLY: When you say a smaller 4 beach, can you go into more detail about that? 5 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Well, the larger area of 6 the beach is in the north area. Again, because 7 8 9 the only survey data that we have to rely on for the design was from the county in 2010. Then, obviously, we did the updated 10 seagrass survey as well. The combination of those 11 two resulted in the final design, which we are 12 trying to maximize as much sand as we can right 111 13 now while we have the contractor mobilized. We 14 always want to get as much sand on the beach as 15 possible. 16 VICE MAYOR KELLY: Where is this additional 17 sand going to go? 18 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Mostly in the north area. 19 The seagrass line, which is seaward in the north 20 area, kind of north of the Ritz Carlton. 21 VICE MAYOR KELLY: By north, what is your 22 designation of north? 23 MR. BLANKENSHIP: A little bit north of the 24 Ritz. • 25 MAYOR CAPLAN: So Commodore to Key Colony TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 213 1 roughly? 2 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Island House to kind of 3 Ritz. 4 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Before we started 5 6 7 8 9 the project, I was notified by the president of the Commodore that looked at the plan, and said, Mayra, we are getting renourished, and they kind of just from -- MR. GILBERT: No, there was a reason for 10 that and that was explained to them regarding the 11 seagrass and the amount of sand. I met with them. 12 I met with them, and that was explained. 5 13 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: I guess it was 14 explained to them but not to me. 15 VICE MAYOR KELLY: I actually went down 16 there Sunday behind Oceana, and the sand seemed 17 deeper, but it didn't really seem like it went 18 that much further towards the water than it did 19 before. 20 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: The problem is, 21 Mike, is the seagrass. By the way, that has 22 invaded us so far in. I mean, growth, I think, I 23 think it's 12 inches per year, the penetration of 24 that, and we cannot put any more sand. • 25 VICE MAYOR KELLY: Is that sand, this TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 1 2 3 214 additional sand just going to go to make the beach deeper or is it actually going to extend the beaches further into the water? 4 MR. BLANKENSHIP: We can't raise the 5 elevation. Elevation is set by the permits. So 6 we are going to go a little bit further down the 7 slope into the water and extend. 8 VICE MAYOR KELLY: It sounds like you can 9 go further. 10 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: Yes, but to a 11 certain extent. We cannot go as far as we wanted 12 to or we wished to and we had before. 5 13 VICE MAYOR KELLY: I am trying to 14 understand the impact of the sand. 15 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: I had the same sort 16 of, right there, at Oceana, right behind the 17 walkout and it seemed higher. You know, again, 18 this is one of those nights where the sargasso was 19 all the way up, where it was just blowing. It's 20 crazy when the sargasso is out there right now. 21 But, yeah, a couple of people have 22 commented the same thing, that they didn't see -- 23 VICE MAYOR KELLY: A little underwhelming. 24 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Yeah, but at the same • 25 time it is noticeable how much more sand there is, TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 1 2 215 and I think if you pile it high enough, I am not a beach expert, but maybe that will assist us in 3 keeping the beach a little longer. I don't know. 4 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: John, how much do 5 you think it would cost to remobilize the beach 6 equipment to spread the sand coming from the 7 Sonesta. Obviously, we don't have the cost of 8 trucks transporting it from central Florida. All 9 we have is the cost of remobilizing that equipment 10 to spread the sand from the Sonesta to -- 11 12 5 13 14 15 VICE MAYOR KELLY: Really, that is a case of the sand. COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Because it's $300,000. MR. BLANKENSHIP: If I can just clarify 16 real quick. The sand quality testing results that 17 you see, it is beach compatible, that upper layer 18 they are going to be excavating, but the silt 19 content is higher. The silt is anywhere from five 20 to eight percent. 21 So the contractor that is going to be 22 handling that material actually has to set up a 23 portable wash plan to get the silt down less than 24 five percent which is in the permit requirements. 25 So there is going to be a cost associated with TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 1 2 3 4 5 216 mobilizing that wash plan, getting the wash plan up to running, and then actually handling, screening, washing the sand. The additional mobilization cost, the line item right now is about $50,000 to get the 6 equipment profile, a similar equipment profile 7 that is out there now; the off -road trucks, the 8 dozer, and the front-end loader. 9 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: So you are saying 10 than other than having to get the silt out, that 11 the additional cost to remobilize it, the 12 equipment, is only 50,000 and we are looking at 111 13 300,000? 14 COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: Yeah. 15 MR. BLANKENSHIP: The line item is 50,000 16 for mobilization. 17 VICE MAYOR KELLY: Where would $300,000 18 come from? 19 MR. GILBERT: When the project was first 20 put to CIP about a few years back, we were looking 21 at a much larger project. A year and a half ago, 22 23 24 5 25 this council chose to go with the smaller option. We had money set aside. We actually had more money than we anticipated we would need for this project, and currently I still have $669,000, TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 217 1 659,000 that I can use for the remaining part of 2 the beach renourishment project. That is only 3 because we had drawn and put aside money for a 4 more larger project, and we just went with the 5 smaller one back then with the anticipation that 6 we would be doing three events over the next ten 7 years. 8 MAYOR CAPLAN: Are we still planning on 9 sandbagging out of Sonesta? 10 MR. GILBERT: Yes. Yes, sir. 11 MAYOR CAPLAN: Does that factor into this 12 cost benefit decision, because we are going to be 13 making sand out of Sonesta anyway if the timing is 14 right? 15 MR. BLANKENSHIP: On the Sonesta sand, we 16 have estimated from the initial study that there 17 is about 50,000 yards, plus or minus. There has 18 been some discussion saving a certain amount of 19 sand for their -- they are trying to do an area 20 for their beach. What we have not been able to 21 find out right now is they are using a special 22 grouting method, a chip grouting method to 23 actually create the storing walls. We don't know 24 how much of that sand within -- you can just 25 picture a bathtub. Okay? We don't know how much TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 218 so 1 2 3 4 5 of the sand is being -- I don't want to use the word contaminated, but affected by that jet grouting that you actually have a drill and then it jets out gravel at very, very high pressures. It mixes with the sand to kind of create this 6 concrete wall per se. We don't know how much 7 inside that bathtub now is still going to be beach 8 compatible. It's very, very new technology that 9 is being utilized there. We don't have any 10 information. We just, you know, as the trucks 11 12 5 13 14 15 arrive, we just observe some of the operations. You will see the cement silos, the cement trucks, and things like that. COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: What would be the estimates as to how much? Do we have any 16 estimates as to how much it would be? 17 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Not right now. 18 VICE MAYOR KELLY: We have a 20 million 19 dollar school board payment coming up. I 20 personally would rather see us hold back on the 21 money if we can. 22 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: And stop this 23 project? 24 VICE MAYOR KELLY: I don't want to spend 111 25 another $300,000, specially if we can spend 50 and TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 219 1 use the sand at the Sonesta. 2 3 4 MS. DUQUE: I apologize. We need another motion to extend. MAYOR CAPLAN: We have until 11:30. 5 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: Yeah, we went to 6 11:30. 7 8 9 MS. DUQUE: Oh, it's 15 minutes. I apologize. COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: Here it is July, 10 August. We are talking two to three months. 11 12 5 13 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: We are talking about the summer. Anyhow, let's call the question. 14 MAYOR CAPLAN: Well, remember, as the 15 manager just said, we budgeted this three years 16 ago. We under spent per budget because we shrunk 17 the project. 18 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Could we have some 19 harder numbers by Tuesday as to how much it will 20 cost if we do this, if we go with the Sonesta 21 sand, the Oceana sand. I want to get this going, 22 but I think we have to be -- 23 COUNCILMEMBER TAINTOR: The question is is 24 there enough sand? That is another thing. 5 25 MR. BLANKENSHIP: There will be some. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 I) 1 2 220 Whether it's the 40 or 50,000 yards, I mean, what we can do is we can try to call -- 3 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Forty or 50,000 4 yards? 5 MR. BLANKENSHIP: In the bathtub -- 6 COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: How much is that in 7 tons? Because we are getting tons. It sounded 8 like you are getting metric on me. 9 MR. BLANKENSHIP: It's about 1.4. So there 10 11 12 5 13 is still about 80, 70,000. COUNCILMEMBER LINDSAY: We need better numbers. MAYOR CAPLAN: So what do you need from us 14 tonight? You need direction? 15 MR. GILBERT: No. This was just to get it 16 out. Because I didn't want to tie up a lot of 17 discussion, but I will, based on the feedback, 18 will get some additional information for you. 19 COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA: But the project 20 isn't being stopped. 21 MR. BLANKENSHIP: No, no, no, it's not 22 being stopped. 23 MAYOR CAPLAN: So we are going to carry the 24 rest of the agenda. We are going to carry the 111 25 rest of the agenda. TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 221 I) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Thank you. Motion to adjourn. COUNCILMEMBER DAVEY: Move. MS. HUBER: The HR, the item will come back in two weeks? MR. HELFMAN: We need to continue the HR item also. MAYOR CAPLAN: Anybody second? 9 COUNCILMEMBER GUSMAN: Second. 10 VICE MAYOR KELLY: Second. 11 MAYOR CAPLAN: All those in favor. 12 (All councilmembers responded aye.) 5 13 MAYOR CAPLAN: Opposed. 14 Adjourned. (Thereupon, the proceedings were 15 adjourned at 11:25 p.m.) 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 5 25 TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331 222 o 1 CERTI FICATE 2 3 4 5 I, Mary G. Stephenson, FPR, State of Florida at 6 Large, certify that I was authorized to and did 7 stenographically report the foregoing proceedings and 8 that the transcript is a true and complete record of my 9 stenographic notes. 10 11 Dated this 17th day of July, 2012. 12 • 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ID 25 Mary G. S'tep`i`ienson, FPR TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES, INC. (305) 444-7331