HomeMy Public PortalAbout2002/07/30 JULY 30, 2002
A Special Meeting of the Mayor and Council of the Borough of SPECIAL MEETING
Carteret was called to order by Mayor James A. Failace at 7:00 P.M.,
on Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at the Municipal Court/Police Facility, 230
Roosevelt Avenue, Carteret, New Jersey.
Upon individual roll call, the following were noted present: ROLL CALL
Councilmember Reiman " Rios
" Santoro
,' Sosnowski
Noted absent were Councilmembers Parisi and Sohadya.
Also noted present was Borough Attorney Robert Bergen, Patrick
DeBlasio and Ron Gardner.
Statement of Meeting Notice was mailed to the Home News Tribune, STATEMENT OF
The Star Ledger and posted on the bulletin board on July 23, 2002. MEETING NOTICE
The purpose of the meeting is Public Hearing on the Amendment, of PURPOSE OF
the 2002 Local Municipal Budget and any other business that may MEETING
come before the Council.
At approximately7:02 P.M. Councilmember Parisiwas noted present. NOTED PRESENT
Upon MMS&C, by Councilmembers Reiman and Rios and unanimous
affirmative vote of the five (5) members present, the Mayor declared PUBLIC EEARING
the Public Hearing to be open:
There being no further comments, the Mayor declared the Public EEARING CLOSED
Hearing to be closed upon MMS&C, by Councilmembers Rios and
Sosnowski and unanimous affirmative vote of the five (5) members
present.
Mayor Failace said Resolutions Kathy.
Borough Clerk Barney said Resolution//02-299 is... COMMENTS
Councilmember Santoro said before we do the Resolutions we had
done a discussion to delay until today about the Green Acres Grant
__ money and the transfer over to do the playgrounds. Do I have to do
this as a Resolution? What are we going to do on it?
Councilmember Reiman said I would think after the Budget Hearing...
Mayor Failace said that is done and now we are up to the two
Resolutions both the budget and the ambulance.
Councilmember Santoro said right.
JULY 30, 2002
Councilmember Reiman said wouldn't we adopt the budget first and
DiSCU$ION CON'-'T then get into discussion about...
Councilmember Santoro said but Kathy was calling for Resolutions
that's what I am concerned about because we need to put that in.
Borough Attorney Bergen said do you want to have some discussion
about it first or, the only reason why I asked is because wasn't that at
the last meeting, didn't we ask that you write a letter to Green Acres.
Did they ever respond? I was just wondering what or did they respond
to you yet.
Patrick DeBlasio said I was on vacation last week and I referred that to
Don Norbut who has been in touch with them.
Councilmember Santoro said right.
Borough Attorney Bergen said has anyone talked to Don, do you know
what there...
Councilmember Santoro said I did not hear anything adverse from
Don, I told him if there was a problem with it to let us know.
Councilmember Reiman said Don did write the letter...
Councilmember Santoro said but my concern is we have an August
15th deadline we have to tell, direct him and you know what, I'd rather
direct it this way if something comes back and we can't, we'd still
have time it would have to go back to the way it was, but I don't want
to risk missing out on the August 15th deadline to file for the new
money.
Councilmember Reiman said can we have further discussion after
budget adoption. I would asked that the Resolutions not be polled
together. They can be polled separately.
Councilmember Santoro said that's fine.
Mayor Failace said as long as we do it today one way or the other.
Councilmember Santoro said we need to move, ok.
Mayor Failace said ok Kath.
Borough Clerk Barney said ok #02-299 that's adoption of the 2002
Local Municipal Budget.
Mayor said Council's pleasure.
Borough Clerk Barney said you got to open.
2
JULY 30, 2002
A copy of each Resolution was placed on the table for public review MEETING OPENED
prior to the meeting in accordance with the Rules of Council and upon PUBLIC INPUT ON
MMS&C, by Councilmembers Reiman and Rios and unanimous ALL RESOLUTIONS
affirmative vote of the five (5) members present, the meeting was
opened for public input on all Resolutions.
Councilmember Santoro said I am going to ask that when we discuss COMMENTS
this other situation we are going to have to re-open to the public.
There being no further comments or objections to the Resolutions, the MEETING CLOSED
Mayor declared the Public Hearing to be closed upon MMS&C, by
Councilmembers Reiman and Sosnowski and unanimous affirmative
vote of the of the five (5) Councilmembers present.
RESOLUTION//02-299 was introduced by the Mayor and referred to RESOLUTION t02-299
ADOPTION OF 2002
the Council for action. LOCAL MUNICIPAL
BUDGET
Upon MMS&C, by Councilmembers Santoro and Sosnowski
RESOLUTION//02-299
"ADOPTION OF THE 2002 LOCAL MUNICIPAL BUDGET"
was adopted. Upon individual roll call vote, Councilmembers Padsi, ADOPTED
Reiman, Rios, Santoro and Sosnowski voted in the affirmative.
Councilmember Sohayda was noted absent.
Councilmember Parisi said first of all I apologize for my lateness to COMMENTS
thc Mayor and Council and also my attire. This is a ...(inaudible)...
it's been a rough day, yes.
RESOLUTION//02-300 was introduced by the Mayor and referred to RESOLUTION ~02-300
A~IARD OF BID -
the Council for action. AMBULANCE
Upon MMS&C, by Councilmembers Santoro and Sosnowski
RESOLUTION//02-300
"AWARDING CONTRACT FOR PURCHASE OF TWO
AMBULANCES"
was adopted. Upon individual roll call vote, Councilmembers Parisi, ADOPTED
Reiman, Rios, Santoro, Sosnowski voted in the affirmative.
Councilmember Sohayda was noted absent.
Mayor Failace said do we have that. COMMENTS
Borough Clerk Barney said it is not prepared yet.
JULY 30, 2002
COMMENTS CON"T Borough Attorney Bergen said we only got the numbers, the numbers
are Paul Vickery $149,900.00 and Elizabeth Truck at $157,493.00 I
will send them to Kathy tomorrow. My understanding, I have not
specifically reviewed them, my understanding Gloria and Brian have
been through them and these are the ambulances that they wanted and
it meets all the bid requirements.
Councilmember Padsi asked Fire Chief O'Connor who was in the
audience is there anything we should know about any of these
companies or anything. You comfortable with the numbers, the
vehicles and all that?
Fire Chief O'Connor said yes it is what we expected.
Councilmember Rios said it has been a long drawn out process and
then it's just another step closer to having our own ambulance service
and our own ambulance. As far as I understand I spoke to Brian today
and these are suppose to be not the demo's that we were assuming that
we would get these are new the only miles they will have on them is
from the manufacturer to us.
Councilmember Santoro said again part of this money is going to be
coming from the Board of Health, the Soldiers and Sailors Fund it's
$100,000.00 payable at $10,000.00 a year to offset some of the cost.
So it's $50,000.00 that we're going to be putting out from our capital.
So we will be receiving two ambulances that we will own ourselves
and we will have full access to at all times. Again we are looking for a
situation 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. to do a paid service during the course
of the night though the ambulances would be ours if there is a situation
that arises that we need to respond we have Police and Fire twenty
four hours a day.
Upon MMS&C, by Councilmembers Reiman and Rios all bills
PAYMENT OF BILLS appearing on the prepared list properly audited and signed were
ordered to be paid. Upon individual roll call vote Parisi, Reiman,
Rios, Santoro and Sosnowski voted in the affirmative.
Councilmember Sohayda was noted absent.
Councilmember Santoro said now you want to do the discussion about
DISCUSSION the Green Acres Grant.
GREEN ACRES GRANT
Borough Attorney Bergen said if you want to.
Councilmember Santoro said how do I have to do that just to start it as
a discussion then put it on a Resolution.
Borough Attorney Bergen said yes.
Councilmember Santoro said at previous meetings we've discussed
two years ago we filed for a Green Acres Grant that was to upgrade
our parks, Carteret Park in particular, the pond and also the
Sportsmen's Field. Anybody who knows that field knows it needs a
JULY 30, 2002
lot of work and they have been looking for that for years and we filed DISCUSSION CON ' T
with Green Acres and never got a response. This year we also filed for GREEN ACRES GRANT
Green Acres for the second phase of the Waterfront Project. The first
phase we already have the money in place it's actually been bid out
and we are moving forward for that to begin. August 15 there's going
to be additional filing for Green Acres money. We're looking at this
-- point to put the money that was for $500,000.00 to do the park
improvements and the Sportsmen's Field and the pond and the gazebo
which is something that would need immediate attention and file for
the new Green Acres money August 15 for the second phase of the
Waterfront Project which probably at this point would not happen until
next year and that's been the discussion. We've put it off for
everybody to have a chance to discuss it and look into it further but
there is a deadline of August 15 and if we're going to do this we need
to do it at tonight's meeting.
Councilmember Reiman said I have some questions about and I know
you are a component for transferring money and I certainly support
starting Phase Two of the Waterfront Project. I've been stating that
over and over again. But I have reviewed the information provided by
T&M, by Mr. Kately in the Parks Department along with the Finance
Department and we have $500,000.00 available but according to the
information that we have, the playground equipment for Carteret Park
is $215,000.00, dredging of the pond is $490,000.00, the basketball
courts is $155,000.00, the gazebo is $75,000.00 and the Pop Warner
Football Field is $187,000.00. That's in excess of a million dollars.
This is $500,000.00 worth of funding. I have read in the paper and
-- I've heard hear at discussion that we're gonna do the Carteret pond,
we're gonna do the basketball courts, we're gonna do the gazebo,
we're gonna do the playground equipment and we're gorma do the Pop
Warner Field, but where is the other $600,000.00 coming from.
Councilmember Santoro said if you remember at the previous
discussion, Danny, that is one of the reasons we delayed it until today
was to get the facts because at all previous meetings nobody was there
with the actual numbers...
Councilmember Reiman said and that's my question.
Councilmember Santoro continued, until recently.., all right now if
you want to give me the numbers right now I'll tell you which
numbers I'd like to see it transferred it and it's the Pop Warner Field
for $187,000.00 and Carteret Park equipment for $215,000.00. Since
we're under A.D.A requirements to upgrade these parks within a
certain period of time.
Councilmember Reiman asked so there's enough there to do the pond?
__ Councilmember Santoro said for $490,000.00, no.
Councilmember Reiman said my question is we keep saying we're
going to do all these projects but we're not going to get all these
projects done not with a half a million dollars when the total is over a
million dollars ....
Councilmember Santoro said well we wouldn't get any of these
projects done if we eliminate and go to Phase Two of the Waterfront,
3ULY 30, 2002
which is a new project, and these are projects that have been sitting
DISCUSSION CON ' t there.
GREEN ACRES GRANT
Councilmember Reiman said no, but you've heard from the Attorney
and from the Engineer that we would not be able to do these projects
this year anyway even if we transfer the money. We would not be able
to do these projects.
Councilmember Santoro said you know what and even...
Mayor Failace said tell me even more that we should be using the
money on the parks because of the amount of money that we need in
order to it. We have...
Councilmember Reiman said but potentially we could start Phase Two
of the Waterfront Park Project because that's a project that can be done
in the fall.
Mayor Failace continued, I do not see why we would want to start the
Waterfront Project Phase Two we have the dime.
Councilmember Reiman said we have an application in...
Mayor Failace said let me tell you something I mean which probably
the people don't even understand sometimes is that we have to pay
back $1.7 million, the bond plus the 985 ok, you know and so that
we're gorma have to get the money for in order to do that even though
we have a grant that 985, and we've gone well over, quite honestly just
to get the dock done, just to get that dock done...
Councilmember Santoro said right.
Mayor Failace continued so that we can do that. If we need a
playground because we are not A.D.A. accessible and we do need a
playground. Carteret Park is the main park. I think we can do the
basketball court, we can do the playground equipment, we can do the
Sportsmen's Field which needs to be done they can not even use that
this year. We've gottta get that done and we do not have the money to
do that, that's for sure unless we take it from this money.
Councilmember Reiman said Mr. Mayor ! understand your position
but my question again is cause you keep, I keep heating and we keep
telling the public in the paper and at these meetings that we re going t
do all these projects and that the application that we are transferring
over, the funding that we're transferring over is going to handle all
these projects.
Mayor Failace said whether it handles all those projects are not, the
point I'm making is that...
Councilmember Reiman said but that is not what we're voting on. Are
we voting to do the pond? Or if we do the other projects...
Mayor Failace said he would not do the pond verses the other parts.
We'll do what we can do with the $500,000.00.
JULY 30, 2002
Councilmember Reiman said that is what I am saying we need to know DISCUSSION CON "T
what the actual application was. We got the reports... GREEN ACRES GRANT
Councilmember Santoro said you know what Danny, Frank brought
the reports today because he had met with John and I guess he hasn't
had a chance to bring it up, but absolutely I was not going to vote until
we knew exactly what we were voting for and that's why the delay of
the voting two weeks ago and I knew back then nobody could..·
Councilmember Reiman said absolutely but my question tonight is
what projects are we voting for.
Councilmember Santoro continued by saying well that is what we're
going to discuss as a Council, but I can tell you right now what I
would support.
Mayor Failace said I would do the tennis court, I would do the
playground equipment and...
Mayor Failace along with Councilmember Santoro said I would do the
Sport/Pop warner field.
Councilmember Santoro said and that comes to $477,000.00.
Mayor Failace said not the tennis court, he meant the basketball courts.
Councilmember Santoro said yes, the basketball courts.
Borough Attorney Bergen said I know you all probably know me as
sometimes being a stick in the mud...
Councilmember Santoro said then sit there and shush.
Borough Attorney Bergen continued by saying being too conservative
but that was the point I was trying to raise why maybe we would find
out from Green Acres because I was not privy to the application I did
not see it. My concern is if Green Acre's assumption is that they will
allow you to transfer from one application to the other and they made a
judgement that they would award you $500,000.00 on a million dollar
project they may not know if you scale the project back to $500,000.00
give you the full $500,000.00 because they want you to contribute part
of the cost to doing it. Know you had conversations with them so I
don't know what those conversatmns were that s the on y...
Mayor Failace said yeah in the conversations the only thing I asked
them Bob was, if we could transfer the monies to the parks, that's the
projects that need to be done the most and the parks projects that we
haven't been and I don't see...
Councilmember Santoro said Bob, I don't see the problem even if it
scales down. We have a million dollars worth of projects here it is
regardless of the fact. The problem arose when Green Acres had two
applications from us one for our parks, one from the Waterfront. All
right, who decided which the priority was and that was a discussion
going back to a previous Agenda. If you ask me which was more
these were more important to get done not that the Waterfront isn't
important for the second phase, but the Waterfront's been waiting for
UL¥ 30, 2002
years to happen it finally is going to happen Phase One is going to
)ISCUSSION CON'T began. These parks have been waiting.., the last time Carteret Park
~REEN ACRES GRANT that's thirty-years probably equipment in that park. Pop Warner Field
certainly have access to the kids year after year now. The Waterfront
hasn't been accessible to everybody; they haven't been able to enjoy it
or to use it. So to wait for the Second Phase which is not the dock,
which is not the main stream of the whole project. It's the pathways,
it's the benches, am I right Danny, I wouldn't want to be saying
anything wrong...
Councilmember Reiman said yes, that's the Recreation Park.
Councilmember Santoro said that is not going to effect the use of the
park. So in reality to be able to upgrade the playground equipment
which has to be done, the Pop Warner Field, which has to be done.
Your risking every year something happening on that field and then to
do the basketball court, and you add that together and Danny that was
great your right and that is why we delayed it. We needed to get the
information. Nobody could give us the actual figures and that's why
we couldn't do anything and that's why we delayed it. Now we have
the figures and if you are asking me what I would vote on that's what I
would vote on.
Mayor Failace said that basketball court is used. I mean if you go
down there any given night you probably got fifty or sixty both young
people and adults playing ball down there and somebody's gonna get
hurt. If you go down and look at that court the crack and the holes.
Councilmember Reiman said my only point with this well actually
there is a couple of points, one being that we need to specify exactly
where we're looking to transfer this funding. And certainly I support
Phase Two of the water front project. Secondly we have the actual
application in for the second round of funding from the Green Acres
from the state, and Bobby their scheduled to take that up in October
some time is that correct...
Borough Attorney Bergen said it's my understanding that the next
round of funding will be announced in October.
Councilmember Reiman said so potentially we should be able to
hopefully receive funding in October. If we did receive funding in
October it would be no harm done if we transferred the money then. I
think we're just jumping the gun. We can't spend the money this year
anyway. We're asking private developers to develop or redevelop
Lower Roosevelt Ave and pumping private investment in capital
upwards of twenty five million dollars. Here you have a potentially
recreational park less than a quarter mile away, that could really ignite
the rebirth of the Waterfront whether it be light commercials and light
industrials or recreational or even residential development, and we're
looking to transfer that money away. The project, yeah your right
Janet, the project's been on the books for ten years to do a Waterfront
Park and to do a marina concept, and it's taken a long time to get to
the point where we were at a month ago when we were able to actually
award the contract, but I think we're so close right now to starting this
project. The other projects the other parks certainly need attention and
they need to be done, but I think it a priority we need to look at
something that is going to be an overall benefit to the entire town. In
JULY 30, 2002
November we have the question allowing the residents to use the funds DISCUSSION CON ' T
that have been collected the last couple years in an open space tax. If GREEN ACRES GRANT
they approve it we can use that money to upgrade the existing parks
we have. That was the original intents of that question. It was either
written wrong or somehow miscommunicated but right now we have
$200,000.00 and come January we have $300,000.00 in funding that
we can't spend if the voters approve and the Council supports, and the
Mayor supports and the voters approve a change of that money come
January we would be able to spend $300,000.00 on upgrading these
parks and the equipment. If they actually approve the second penny
then come January we have $400,000.00 in funding. I just think with
only looking at this project we're gong to spend $2.4 million in
building a pier, a floating dock and a boat ramp, this works hand and
hand with that entire project could rejuvenate the entire Waterfront and
start to bring in some tax surplus.
Councilmember Sohayda noted present at approximately 7:25 p.m. NOTED PRESENT
Councilmember Santoro asked when is that expected to completion of DISCUSSION CON ' T
this project, Phase Two. GREEN ACRES GRANT
Councilmember Reiman said the completion of Phase Two depends on
how quickly we move here. They could go ahead...
Councilmember Santoro said it would not begin until after Phase One,
so the reality is it might be next year anyway.
Councilmember Reiman said no. They can begin Phase Two in the
fall we would just be waiting for the design work. The Engineers at a
meeting told us here that Phase One does not need to be completed
before they start Phase Two. It's to be partially completed, but that
don't have to have a one hundred percent completion date on that
before thy start Phase Two.
Councilmember Santoro said you know what the shame is, Danny you
weren't here when we filed and pleaded about these grants for this
playground equipment for two years. Two years ago we filed this and
we felt at that time that was a priority and we needed to move ahead
on that. The Waterfront, this Phase Two came up now and I am fully
supportive of that Waterfront Project and I think that is a great thing.
And if I think that redevelopers coming into Lower Roosevelt when
we're spending $2.4 million to renovate a Waterfront are gonna
change there mind about our dedication because we're going to hold
off for one year for the $500,000.00 to put Phase Two in then shame
__ on those redevelopers.
Councilmember Reiman said nobody said that these redevelopers
would change their minds...
Councilmember Santoro said Carteret has a lot of work to be done and
that $400,000.00 that we might be able to see in January might be able
to help us complete that Phase Two. The commitment has got to be if
we, we're already to late for September to do this work in these parks.
JULY 30, 2002
If we put this off until next year again we could miss out again on an
DISCUSSION CON ' T another September. This is important...
GREEN ACRES GRANT
Councilmember Reiman said but by transferring why not...
Councilmember Santoro said you prioritize, you file it, you file it in
order so that you follow it all of a sudden who jumps ahead.
Councilmember Reiman said the Waterfront Projects been awarded we
have the grant application that will be considered in the October round
of funding. Why not wait until that point in time to see if we receive
the funding. If we receive the funding for this project for the various
park improvement projects then the discussion we're having here
tonight doesn't matter.
Councilmember Santoro asked but why can't the Waterfront wait until
this second round or everything else?
Councilmember Reiman said because that's the project that's awarded,
that's the project that they were looking to break ground with in the
next thirty days.
Mayor Failace said wait a minute. Let me say this that's the project
awarded Danny but you know as well as I do we had the discussion at
the meeting why it was awarded that way ok, but they told me they
were both viable projects...
Councilmember Reiman said and they both rank the same.
Mayor Failace said yes, we put in for the park project first. You told
him, you told him that we wanted the Waterfront Project first and this
Council...
Councilmember Reiman said, no.
Mayor Failace said no that's not no it true...
Councilmember Reiman said Jim you're a liar.
Mayor Failace said I spoke to them, I am not a liar. ! spoke to Kathy
Shaw I know exactly what...
Councilmember Reiman said let's have something put in writing...
Mayor Failace said let me finish my sentence.
Councilmember Reiman said I spoke to ...(inaudible) .... five times
and I told them over and over again. Everybody ...(inaudible)...
Mayor Failace said I came to this Council, I'm still speaking,
Danny...(inaudible)... I am still speaking you can finish when I am
done.
Councilmember Reiman said your making things up you are lying.
10
JULY 30, 2002
Mayor Failace said I am not making things up, I am not lying. I told DISCUSSION CON ' T
this Council at a Council Meeting you did not say you didn't do it I GREEN ACRES GRANT
told it at an Agenda Meeting. I spoke to Kathy Shaw...
Councilmember Reiman said he spoke to D.E.P. over and over again
and I never once told them that the Council decided.
Mayor Failace said exactly about this project. He told them that the
Council chose to do this instead...
Councilmember Reiman said absolutely not.
Mayor Failace said because that's they chose this project over the
parks project. The bottom line is this park project needs to be done
first. This will not cause this delay will not cause us to slow down the
rebirth of the Waterfront area. We have a main park in Carteret that
has waited because we started to do work on the satellite parks. We
need to do this project know. We need to fix the basketball court, we
need to fix the Sportsmen's Field, we need and Councilman says
Councilman Reiman says it's going to take us a million dollars damn
right you know what we should probably spend that million dollars on
the parks before we finish the Waterfront Park. We're gonna create a
new park yet not fix the old park ....
Councilmember Reiman said that was ...(inaudible)... referendum
was for. If you had done your job back then you wouldn't have to fix
the parks now.
Mayor Failace said and on top of that I don't think that we will be able
to put a boat ramp on there to put boats in the water. We've already
received a letter saying that it is very dangerous where we are on the
Kill to do that. So we're probably not going to be able to do that.
We're going to have a park where you can go sit down it's beautiful.
Sit down and have a cup of coffee, have a sandwich bring a lunch do
whatever you have to do. We can do the same thing in Carteret Park
and our other parks right now and we need to use that money that way
right at this moment. We can, if we need a million dollars this
$500,000.00 sets us on the way, and you know what, if we get, if this
question goes through in November we get 3 and then 4 hundred
thousand dollars we should put that money right toward that park also
to fix it.
Councilmember Reiman asked are you supporting the question in
November?
Mayor Failace said sure absolutely.
Councilmember Reiman asked are you supporting the increase in the
Open Space Act.
Mayor Failace said look that's not a discussion for here whether I
support the...
Councilmember Reiman said your saying let's wait and see.
Councilmember Santoro said let me ask both of you. That shouldn't
be an issue.
11
JULY 30, 2002
DISCUSSION CON' T Mayor Failace said exactly that's not an issue. My point is we need
GREEN ACRES GRANT the $500,000.00 now...
Councilmember Reiman said if you guys read the budget with my
corrections the first time we would have the funding that we need.
Mayor Failace said Danny and part of that money still would have
went to the other parks.
Councilmember Reiman said you could have started your projects
...(inaudible)...
Mayor Failace said you remember you took $100,000.00 out of the
budget to pay down the $24,000,000.00 debt that we had ready for the
parks.
Councilmember Reiman said absolutely not.
Mayor Failace said yes you did. You voted for it.
Councilmember Reiman said Jim there was no debt paid down last
year read your budget.
Mayor Failace asked did we take $100,000.00 out of the park budget
to pay down debt.
Councilmember Santoro said I did.
Patrick DeBlasio said we removed that line item.
Mayor Failace said thank you. OK.
Patrick DeBlasio said we did not pay down the debt with that.
Councilmember Santoro said I will defend that because I did that,
because and again Jim don't cross that.
Mayor Failace said oh I am.
Councilmember Santoro said we had so many projects going on that
decision was made based on at that point we had pumped in enough
money into the parks that the ongoing projects were going to continue,
we had budget crisis and needs in other areas and we felt that decision
was sound. You're getting off track. These two things...
Mayor Failace said no I am not, that is still $100,000.00
Councilmember Santoro said both of you. These two projects are both
viable projects. The Waterfront is an outstanding project...
Mayor Failace said and this one needs to be done first. I am on your
side on this one.
Councilmember Santoro said I am not sure whose on my side on these
things but I firmly believe both these projects can get done. The point
is now that we need to file for August 15 to go back to Green Acres
12
JULY 30, 2002
and you know what Danny we have to go down there and fight DISCUSSION CON'T
additionally for that money and you said you called D.E.P. we should GREEN ACRES GRANT
all be calling and pleading for this money, because you know what,
Carteret always gets bypassed. We have the opportunity to get two
projects done and this is something that we should all get behind.
Councilmember Reiman said I agree that.
Councilmember Santoro said the Waterfront, Danny you've done
tremendous job on that. You've worked at that and that's been
something that you took under your wing and you wanted to see to it,
but these parks we've worked on. We've sat and we've tried to put
that together, and there's a time that you can't say what one is more
important than the other. You've got to decide if you can wait for the
other one and you get both of them and that is all I am bringing before
the Council.
Councilmember Reiman said this project has been waiting a
significant amount of time, and not necessary that it was the Council
or the Mayor's fault for the Waterfront Project, but again I think we've
heard over and over again that we're going to spend the money here
and there. I guess tonight the proposal is that we spend the money
upgrading the playgrounds...
Councilmember Santoro said the playgrounds for $215...
Councilmember Reiman said basketball courts...
Councilmember Rios said may I say one thing, and excuse me Dan, we
had talked about in the beginning of the year that we were going to be
using that Open Space money for the Carteret Park to put most of that
money into Carteret Park. That is something that we should not forget
that that was our anticipation back in January of last year until we
realized that that Open Space money was not available... (inaudible)...
upgrade.
Councilmember Santoro said if we get the $400,000.00 that could go
toward the pond if it is $490,000.00. Ronnie there is still $500,000.00
worth of work that needs to be done over there.
Councilmember Rios said I understand I am just saying don't forget
that thought of what we had in mind or that vision that we had in mind
with that money.
Councilmember Santoro said absolutely.
Councilmember Rios said the Waterfront Project has been started.
Don't get me wrong I don't want to see any thing neglected that we
have already. But don't you think the Waterfront Project, continuing
that project might attract more people into the town or build our value
of our homes a lot more than what they are already.
Councilmember Santoro said I think any improvements. The
$500,000.00 going into any area is going to benefit Carteret. Carteret
is not divided into one area desires more money then the other.
Mayor Failace said I agree, I agree with ya.
13
JULY 30, 2002
Councilmember Santoro said alright, so any investment into this town
DISCUSSION CON'T is long over due and it needs to move forward. The Waterfront I
GREEN ACRES GRANT personally feel is not going to be neglected. We're spending $2.4
million now on the Waterfront and the $500,000.00 to wait a year
when we could finally move ahead with some of these other projects
that we had dedicated ourselves to. We sat at meetings and promised
we were going to be moving forward on these things. Well you know
what the priorities aren't that important to change. You're going to
see something happening with the Waterfront down there.
$500,000.00, and Ronnie I would hope if this went through that you
would get down to Green Acres and start arguing the point that we
need to get this done and we start pleading for Carteret for their help.
We should get money if we got it every year from Green Acres we
wouldn't be in the mess we're in right know, and just because they
gave it to us once doesn't mean that we don't deserve it again, and I
think that the Waterfront Project and we might be able to put more into
the second phase of the Waterfront Project cause we were so behind
because we ran short on the first phase when we had to come up with
the money for the $2.4 million, maybe we can put more money into
the second phase and even get a better second phase, is going back to
them. So again I just think that this is important. Pop Wamer, I stood
down at a bunch of these dinners a promised that we were committed
to them and committed to this field. For $187,000.00 we need to do
that. The playground equipment, we just were hit a couple meetings
ago that the equipment down in Carteret Park is a disgrace, and if any
of you rode by it, it is.
Councilmember Parisi said bottom line in my opinion is you talk about
priorities. I think the biggest priority you have to look at is the safety
and welfare of the people using the parks. Right now without questio.n,
the basketball courts are in terrible shape the tennis courts are ~n
terrible shape, without any shadow of a doubt that football field is in
horrendous shape. Somebody should have went to jail for what
happened at that field when it was first put down in my opinion. Also
besides the tennis courts and the park equipment, there's the
playground equipment in the park. All of that is more of a safety issue
than anything else. So I personally would have to weigh the fact
whether I want to upgrade and make those different priorities and
safeties for those particular items and the Waterfront property, it's
without question we need to upgrade and make those fields, and those
parks, and tennis courts, and playground equipment safe.
Conncilmember Reiman said but Frank regardless of the vote that we
take tonight we can't do the playground, the basketball court, and the
Pop Warner Field. We can't do them all this year.
Councilmember Padsi said the basketball field and the tennis court is
$72,900.00, the Football Field is $187,912.00 and the Parks is
$215,000.00, which is $475,812.00.
Councilmember Rios asked how much for the tennis courts.
Councilmember Parisi said $72,900.00 for the basketball and tennis
courts combined.
Councilmember Santoro said are they both.
14
JULY 30, 2002
Councilmember Parisi said yes. DISCUSSION CON '~-
GREEN ACRES GRANT
Councilmember Reiman said ...(inaudible)...the numbers I was
provided by the Clerk's Office and by the Parks Department show
$155,000.00 for the basketball courts and I have the paper work right
here. So I mean I don't know if our information is different from what
has been provided, but the point I was making, wasn't the price the
point was that we can't do those projects this year anyway. We can't
start those projects, the only project that we could potentially start as
far as a park project would be Phase Two of the Waterfront. We've
had the application in for the park open park improvements for the last
two years. We wouldn't know until October whether are not we're
gorma be funded for that. If we're not funded at that point in time the
Council could ask that we transfer the funding to Phase Two, but of we
transfer the money now that the state just gave us for the Waterfront
were going to reapply for the Waterfront what's the chances that after
they've given us $500,000.00 for Phase One six months later their
going to give us the same amount of money, for the same project that
we spent the money some where else on. I think it's wise just to wait
until after October round of funding, let's all stay together or come
together and campaign down in Trenton to get this D.E.P. award for
the Open Park Improvements or for the various park improvements.
Call the D.E.P., call the state legislature, call the Governor's office, do
what we have to do, try to get that funding and take it from there. I
mean we still have the opportunity, we still have several months left
before you know before we have to actually make a decision. I mean I
know we have to apply the application has to be in by August 15 but
we wouldn't know until October sometime whether are not we're
going to actually receive any funding.
Councilmember Parisi said my concern is not which project can get
started earlier, which is my personal opinion obviously, but my
concern is where the priorities lie, and if we have a choice, which we
do right now, the priorities should lie in the safety of the people that
are going use and more utilize the parks, the tennis courts, and the
basketball courts more than the Waterfront property at this point. So
we have an opportunity to do it and if it doesn't start until next year
than so be it but it needs to get going and if we can do it now than do it
Councilmember Santoro said one question I don't understand why it
can't began, and all of us know slowness and we hear it every meeting
that it takes forever to get anything done in this town. That you know
with the parks we're going to need engineering, we're gonna need
drawings, we're gouna have to go out for a bid all that has to begin
now, for us to even realize it next year. To put it off any more months
just delays the work to get done again next year. To put it off any
more months just delays the work to get done again. You figure in the
wintertime come November all work out doors stop for a few months,
that's a design factor. At least in the spring the playground equipment
might be able to get installed they can start working on the Pop
Warner Field so by September it's ready to go. No, if you delay this a
few months off there's that possibility none of this could be done in
time, and I think that those months are very important.
Councilmember Parisi said I make a motion to on the Resolution #02-
301 to transfer the grant money from the Waterfront Property Phase
15
fULY 30. 2002
Two to the Parks, specifically the basketball and tennis courts, the
}ISCU$SION CON ' T football field and the parks.
~REEN ACRES GRANT
Councilmember Santoro said can we just make sure and put an amount
for the basketball and tennis court since there's a concern what the
actual amount is. Can we put $75,000.00?
Borough Attorney Bergen said see now your starting to get what my
concern is. I have not seen that application. So if you start to change
the nature of what you ask the money for you may...
Councilmember Santoro said we asked for that money in the first
application.
Borough Attorney Bergen said for example you might have submitted
an application for a million dollars worth of park improvements...
Councilmember Santoro said over a period of two years.
Borough Attorney continued and Green Acres evaluated that
application based upon a million dollars, and there may be a provision
in that grant application that says even if you don't get fully funded
you'll do all the improvements that you've applied for. So if you start
to change that now I'm concerned about whether you bind yourself
and that maybe the same thing for the Waterfront Park. The
Waterfront Park may have been an application for 1.2 million for
which they've only awarded you $500,000.00 and you may also have
committed to do all of those improvements. What I'rn concern is if
you unilaterally change the grant application is Green Acres still gonna
let you just pick and choose what you want to do.
Councilmember Santoro said what's the worst their gonna do and
force us to ...
Borough Attorney Bergen said tell you no. Just so that you know that.
Mayor Failace said I think we understand that Bob and that in fact if
they tell us down the long run that we can't do that, which I don't
think their going to tell us that. I mean I feel comfortable about after
my discussions with them that they will allow us to transfer to
whatever was in our other application, and if either one if, well Bob
when they awarded this half a million dollars for the Waterfront did
they say this is half a million dollars and you have to they didn't say
you have to put in more money to do some other...
Borough Attorney Coughlin said the application may have committed
you to do whatever you applied for you may have applied for 1 million
I don't know.
Councilmember Reiman said the Phase Two application was for
$590,000.00.
Borough Attorney Bergen said ok and they awarded you a half a
million.
Councilmember Reiman said $90,000.00 potential...
16
JULY 30, 2002
Borough Attorney Bergen said the only thing I am saying is that I'd DISCUSSION CON ' T
prefer you not to put numbers in, just put what you think the projects GREEN ACRES GRANT
are going to cover but not put the number in there. Try to pick around
a half a million but don't restrict yourselves to how much you now
your gonna be, because then you have more flexibility when you
negotiate with Green Acres. That's a policy thing like I said I have not
seen the application.
Mayor Failace said that's fine.
Councilmcmber Santoro said ok.
Councilmember Reiman said is this motion to add on #02-301
Councilmember Parisi said yes.
Borough Attorney Bergen said also with that resolution are you gonna
authorize the Engineer to reapply for the other money.
Councilmember Santoro asked should we do that separate one.
Borough Attorney said no I think you can do it all as one.
Mayor Failace said please give us the Resolution Bob, I think Frank
knows what he wants but we need...
Borough Attorney Bergen said the Resolution is to transfer the money
that you received from Green Acres for what do you want to do with it
again, the park.
Councilmember Parisi said you want to be specific...
Borough Attorney said you can put the projects in just let's not say
$150,000.00.
Councilmember Parisi said the basketball and tennis courts, the
football fields and the park...
Mayor Failace said the Pop Wamer Field.
Councilmember Parisi said the Pop Warner Football Field.
Borough Attorney said and to authorize the Engineer to...
Councilmember Parisi said and the Carteret Park playground
equipment and to authorize the Engineer to apply for Phase Two of the
Waterfront with Green Acres.
Borough Attomey Bergen asked do you want him to also apply for the
draining of the thing the draining of the pond as well.
Councilmember Parisi said and also the dredging of the pond.
Councilmember Santoro second the motion.
17
JULY 30, 2002
Upon MMS&C by Councilmember Parisi and Santoro and unanimous
AGENDA AMENDED affirmative vote of the full Council present the Agenda was amended
to include Resolution #02-301, Authorizing the Relocation of Green
Acres Funding and the Submission of a New Green Acres Application.
Upon MMS&C, by Councilmembers Parisi and Santoro an unanimous
MEETING OPENED affirmative vote of the full Council present, the meeting was opened
for public input on Resolution #02-301.
COMMENTS Stan Gutowski, 53 New Jersey Avenue. You said a lot of things I am
going to try to cover what is important to me. Number one, the type of
grant that we just got from D.E.P. wasn't the maximum $500,000.00
we got no matter what the application was for the most we were gonna
get was $500,000.00
Borough Attorney Bergen said I don't know.
Mayor Failace said yes.
Mr. Gutowski said yes I believe that's correct.
Borough Attorney Bergen said but I don't know that there's a
provision that says when you apply that you're committed to doing all
of the work that you apply for no matter how much money you
receive.
Mr. Gutowski said yep well again the maximum you can get is
$500,000.00. As much as we want to be like our neighbors,
Councilman, South Amboy, Perth Amboy even Woodbridge have a
history of a Waterfront. Brighten Beach in Sewaren use to be the place
to go. There was a boardwalk; it was amusement fides you got
$400,000.00 homes going up in South Amboy. You mentioned
residential development on our Waterfront, could you tell me where.
Where you anticipate doing this.
Councilmember Reiman said I said potential residential development
along the Waterfront and near it. There is a possibility
...(inaudible)...DuPont Property...
Mr. Gutowski said that's not Waterfront I'm talking Waterfront.
Councilmember Reiman said the DuPont property is absolutely
Waterfront.
Mr. Gutowski said that's contaminated and we know it's
contaminated.
Councilmember said and they're building right now in Jersey City and
Newark their building it on old landfills. They're capping and
building them up. I am not saying we're going to have
...(inaudible)... I am just saying there's a potential to have some type
of development along that Waterfront. We're looking at including an
18
JULY 30, 2002
additional hundred plus acres in another redevelopment area. Which COMMENTS CON ' T
includes parts of the Waterfront property.
Mr. Gutowski said we continually talk about the revitalization of our
Waterfront. We never had a history of a Waterfront here in Carteret.
It's always been industrial. We're looking to create something at this
point that potentially your saying and some of the other Council
members are saying are gonna help the redevelopment of lower
Roosevelt Avenue. I don't see the two being connected. Certainly I
think Lower Roosevelt Avenue will stand on it's own. I don't think
that park or marina or Waterfront, whatever it is going to have any
effect on who or what's going to come to Lower Roosevelt Avenue. I
am totally with the, you're not going to believe that I am going to say
this, your all laughing all ready but I agree with the Councilwoman
one hundred percent. I agree with what you are proposing what Frank
proposed. Understand this goes back to 1993-1994 when we
originally got this money for this Waterfront or whatever you call it.
None of you were here then I wasn't here none of us were here than, to
know the circumstances of why it wasn't done. In numerous meetings
that I had down in Trenton when the Mayor was on the Council and
when the Mayor than became the Mayor we became a little more
knowledgeable why the park was never done down there, and I
imagine all of you now know why it wasn't done and why now it can
be done. I agree it is not a good idea to do Phase Two before Phase
One has even been started. We looked into transferring the money and
Patrick can even verify this again when Jim was still on the Council.
We looked into transferring the original grant and loan application to
the parks instead of doing the Waterfront Parks, because even at that
time it was a priority doing them. We were looking for ways to come
up with money to fix our park system. When we were turned down for
that from the D.E.P and everybody else that's when we came up with
what you call the dock phase. Not done properly open space whether
it was done properly or not I don't know, I haven't read it since then,
but that's when we came up with that idea to do it to come up with an
additional way to try and find funding to fix what we already have. So
that was a priority but again we got turned down. I think it is a good
idea. The Pop Warner Field again that was part of, if you all
remember when the recreation building was built that was thrown into
that Capital Improvement Ordinance and was done improperly. They
came in and put the sod down, which was done by someone local.
Then after they put the sod down they put the sprinkler system in and
we had fought to get that down properly but unfortunately the wheels
were in motion and it was done the wrong way. It needs to be done
the right way. Your right those children are imperil down there. I use
to go down there and watch them you have a couple of coaches sitting
in the back and I am sure they will get up and tell you just how
dangerous it is and how much it needs to be done. This is a great idea.
Take this $500,000.00 and use it for what we have, fix what we have
and it's a feather in all of your caps whether you agree with it or not.
It's the right thing to do. Thank you.
Councilmember Santoro said just in answer, Stan, well I should shut
up while I'm ahead but just in answer with the Waterfront that is
important. Whether we utilize it as a tree Waterfront like South
Amboy or Perth Amboy from years ago. We always had the
Waterfront and that was poor planning that we didn't save that
Waterfront and put the warehousing in and not plan that we could've
19
JULY 30, 2002
used as residential as the other towns did. I do believe that is an
COMMENTS CON' T important part of the redevelopment in that area and showing our
commitment to recreational and Open Space and that's going to be a
great spot, you know in the future and that's something that's going to
be proud to look back on and I do think it's going to spark the
redevelopment and our commitment to Carteret.
Jack Engel, 19 Linden Street. If you know me you know that I coach
Pop Warner Football. So obviously I have an appliance to what we
would like to see done. I just would like to remind you as Janet said
every year and maybe some of you haven't been to one of our
banquets, but every year since Pete was alive, God rest his soul, it was
always we're gonna improve, we're gorma improve and we have an
excess of 300 children playing football, between football and
cheerleading their on that field. Each night we walk the field, the
coach back there will tell you he takes his team out and he walks the
field to pick up whatever is on the field. It's not only from kids
throwing stuff from playing in the neighborhood, it's what is
underneath that ground. We've pulled up tires and god knows what
else. So we have an excess of 300 children which is obviously an
excess of 300 parents who year after year after year pay to play out
there. There concern and out concern as coaches, we don't want a kid
to get hurt in a game, God forbid he gets hurt in a game, but when he
gets hurt on the practice field from an item in the ground that is
unacceptable. So now we deal with the parents every night ok so now
your going to deal with us because it's just not right, and the fact that it
has been told over and over again to us, we're gonna fix that field for
you. That is a great thing to say when you got all those people in the
audience but now you get to live up to it because you've made that
promise over and over. We have Carteret Park Danny the Waterfront,
their's not a person here that would say that's not a great idea and
you'd be commended for doing what your doing with it. We do have a
nice park in Carteret Park, and the work that's been done over the past
few years is redeveloping that, but you do have 30 year old, I think
you said, equipment in that park. It's kind of disgraceful, I go up to
Shore Crest Park and that park is beautiful now and that was a park
that we never wanted to use in Little League, but now it is gorgeous
well there's no reason that Carteret Park couldn't start to look like that.
At least that equipment, and again the safety issue, you know besides
the softball fields kids falling of the swings are getting hurt on those
things, which is something you ought to think about.
Councilmember Reiman said Jack we had a discussion with some of
the Councilmembers about potentially just doing the Pop Warner Field
and I said that I would support that if it was just that. Yeah we've
heard numbers at one point and I read in the paper it was $20-
35,000.00 to do it. Somebody had said at a Council Meeting it was
$90-95,000.00 to do it and then today I get a report from the Parks
Department and the Engineering Department that it's $187,000.00 to
do it. These numbers have gone all over and I mean we don't even
know if that's the actual amount, but we do have some money left over
in our budget, with in the Parks Department budget to do that project.
Certainly if the referendum is amended or if the question is amended
in November we will be able to start that project as soon as possible.
Mr. Engel said my problem is the fact that we may be able to do it
when if we transfer the money we can do it. That's the problem I have
2o
JULY 30, 2002
with it, because we've been told and forget about the fact that I'm a COg/lENTS CON ' T
coach just as a person that lives in this town and has a son that's
playing there even though I was a coach. That's an important thing
that football field and those parks and the things that you want to
improve in those parks. I mean the football fields just because we
have been told so many times and quite honestly I came to you tonight
and I have one coach with me. I could have packed this place tonight
with parents and made it a little more interesting but there is no need
for it cause you guys all know what goes on. You all have seen it over
the course of years you grew up here you know what's down there and
the field is just no good it is not safe for the kids. It's going to come
back to get us as coaches, as an organization and as a town, so I would
just ask you please think of that and remember there is 600 parents
down there who have a good memory and it's important that they get
some satisfaction of what we're suppose to have. Thank you.
Jim Mancuso, Jackson Avenue. I don't know if the Council is aware
that football field is actually 2 ½ feet on the width of being illegal.
Councilmember Santoro said yes, we are aware of it.
Mayor Failace said yes we are.
Mr. Mancuso said and you also know on the left hand side you have a
...(inaudible)... incline that starts of...(inaudible)... 2 miles per hour
and you wind up doing 20 on the left hand side. It's just another
potential accident to happen. I think one of the biggest priorities in this
town.
Mayor Failace said we certainly remember the time we spent just
looking at the pier trying to figure out how we could do what we could
do when you were on the Council.
John Panikiewsky, 108 Whitman Street. As my fellow coach just
recently said here I'm not here to debate which project is right or
wrong because I believe they're both right. I'm here for one reason.
I've been coaching Pop Warner Football probably many of you know,
many of you on the Council have played Pop Warner Football, you
know what the program is about. There are a lot of dedicated
individuals out there giving heart and soul to these children. These
children are our future in Carteret. You can build a Waterfront, you
can fix a park but if you don't have residents to support it, it means
absolutely nothing. All we're asking you to do is to make the field
legal. We have been restricted by the League, Pop Warner League.
We are not allowed to play a game on that field because the field is
illegal. It's not the proper width, it's not the proper length, it doesn't
have the proper graduation on it, for a number of reasons. So, we're
restricted to only practicing on there, and I can tell you something
from first hand experience those days are limited right now. We will
be restricted from practicing on that field. Jack told you about tires we
took out, red brick, not one or two red bricks-seven or eight bricks
cemented together. It took six or seven eight-year-olds to dig out by
hands with their fingers to carry to the side so that they could practice
that night, two hours of practice. A two hour practice ...(inaudible...)
We hold hands, eight and nine year olds hold hands start at one side of
the field to walk across and pick up glass and bricks and rocks. It's
not necessary to do that in this town. As I said many of you have
21
JULY 30, 2002
played there and many of you know the value of Pop Warner. The
CO~4~.N~S CON ' · values that are instilled in these young people some day they will be
sitting in your seats up there, and I hope to see maybe a Mayor, maybe
an Attorney, and I would feel very proud that they were one of my
former players that did this. But little by little we are starting to lose
these children. Why are we loosing them? Parents don't want to put
them out there because the fields are not playable. We can't play a
game in town on our own field; we have to pay to play on another
field. If we get banned from the park where we are currently, where
do we go, Carteret Park, and I hear a lot of rumors that Carteret Park is
not in good shape either. Where do we put these children? There is no
place in town to practice football. Gentlemen and Ladies this is your
future, these children are the future of Carteret. If you want them to
grow up and leave town, continue on the way we're going. If you
want to make these children stay in town and be someone and improve
this town you will do something for the children. As Jack alluded to
earlier there was a potential a very serious potential for a liability issue
against the township because of that field. All we need is for someone
to get very seriously injured on there and this thing could get blown
out of proportion, and it's very feasible to happen. As we speak right
now there are sprinkler pipes sticking right out of the ground and I'd
be glad to show anyone if they'd like to walk down there. There's no
need for that. It's not a question of which one has more priorities or
which one is cheaper to do which one we could fit into the budget.
We're talking about safety we're talking about lives, we're talking
about investing in the future. The children are our investment and if
we can't invest in that, I don't know what we can invest in. So please
consider the field, the Pop Warner Field, thank you.
Marietese Martinez, 100 Roosevelt Village. I've been living all my
life here in Carteret. I've been in the Chrome section all my life. I
agree that I have children and my children are going to be playing also
in the park but Carteret Park is not the only park here in Carteret. I
have kids that play in Chrome Park. Chrome Park is even worse off
the Carteret Park. You know, I mean, I think it is a good idea about
the Waterfront because that's somewhere we can take our kids. Right
now some people that live in Chrome, the Chrome section can't walk
all the way down there to take their kids. I just think that there is more
of a necessity fixing other things or doing things that have more value
than just fixing one park for the certain groups that use that park. I
think yeah, I have two boys that are going to be playing sports and
everything and I agree with the coaches and everything but I think that
we also need to think about our children and they need to be able to go
somewhere. The Waterfront, I think is a great idea because that's
close to where we live, not only where we live but it's not going to
bring in only people that are from other areas, I mean like they said
before Woodbridge has their Waterfront, Amboy has their Waterfront I
don't see what's the big deal. They've been procrastinating about this
for quite awhile, and I think it's a great idea for them to put something
creative so that people can go there. It's like the 4th of July everybody
unites there and it's dangerous now the way it is.
Councilmember Santoro said but you understand, we are doing the
Waterfront. The Waterfront is not the discussion we have the money
in place we voted to hire the people to do the work that is happening.
The dock, the redoing of that Waterfront is happening. This was a
second phase to go further in to do a passive area with walkways and
22
JULY 30, 2002
to extend it. The Waterfront is going to happen and if you ask about COMMENTS CON' T
your children and the children in Chrome, if there is a different value
for them.
Mrs. Martinez said no.
Councilmember Santoro said no, no, I'm just saying from my point of
view, I don't think for all the kids, these are all public parks. These
are an advantage to everybody, and right now we have choices that we
feel will get more accomplished by at least being able to do the
Waterfront and also be able to accomplish some of the things that we
had planned and neglected. When I hear about standing up and
commitment I was one of those people who did that, so shame on me
if I all of a sudden I think that something is more important than the
other when I've committed to do something for people and I can't
prove it.
Mrs. Martinez said yeah, but I hear that Carteret Park is like that
everything is neat at Carteret Park. There're so many things that are
needed at Chrome Park...
Councilmember Santoro said Chrome Park, and if you've been at other
meetings when we sat there, it was a five-year process that they were
going to redevelop each park. West Carteret was complete, Shore
Crest Park was complete, Carteret Park was the next one to be
completed. Chrome Park...
Mrs. Martinez said if you say all of the parks are being completed then
Chrome Park is like the last park for everything.
Councilmember Santoro said Chrome Park is a disgrace. It's the
biggest space, has the least amount of equipment for the amount of
space that's down there an absolutely should that have more things
down there and be fixed, and it's not for lack that we don't want to do
that and we're very well aware of it. If that had been in the plan, and
I'm talking about previous grants that were already filed for Carteret
Park. If you ask me now and it wasn't filed which one should I go with
first, then I would sit and discuss that with you, but this was something
we did file for already for Carteret Park. Chrome Park absolutely
should be upgraded, should have more equipment...
Mrs. Martinez said cause I hear that Carteret Park is a disgrace and the
way that it is and everything...
Councilmember Santoro said only because this was part of the
application two years ago and that's why we're discussing Carteret
Park, but of you want to ask me about Chrome Park let's go.
Councilmember Parisi said just a minute Mrs. Martinez just before you
go I just want to disagree with you for a moment about Chrome Park.
I do believe that some of the playground equipment there was Brought
in a few years ago.
Mayor Failace said we replaced the playground equipment a couple of
years ago, we put a new tennis court.
Councilmember Parisi said a basketball court.
23
JULY 30, 2002
Mayor Failace said yeah I'm sorry a basketball court.
Councilmember Parisi said there is definitely, actually the equipment
in Chrome Park right now is in better shape without question than the
equipment in Carteret Park. Whether it's good or not it's still in better
shape than Carteret Park.
Mr. Martinez said that is not true.
Councilmember Padsi said yes it is, it absolutely is.
Councilmember Santoro said let's face it it's in better shape but you
know what it doesn't look like Shore Crest and West Carteret.
Councilmember Parisi said I didn't say it was great, I just said it was
in better shape.
Jim Stone from West Carteret. It's obvious and it's a no brainer, are
we gonna take Phase Two and develop that and neglect it like we
neglect the parks now and have another thing that we're gonna neglect
or are we gorma fix what's already there. A couple of years ago when
Patrick Crilley was a Councilman, this Council took $100,000.00 out
of the park system and paid down a debt. $20,000,000.00 it was a
drop in the bucket, it went no where. Pat was working on the park,
and you said let's pay down the debt for $20,000,000.00 we'll put that
$100,000.00 away. That money got pushed on the side. Now again
we're talking about Phase Two when Phase One ain't even done. So
we'll build Phase Two we'll neglect that, we'll neglect the park and
then we have a whole bunch of neglect. Common sense tells you we
have to protect our children. You stand at the School Board or
anywhere else and they tell you we need the money for the budget
because of our children, yet you come to the Council and you say we
need to protect our children. Our parks are a disgrace and the Council
says no we're going to use that $500,000.00 for Phase Two but Phase
One is not done. Like the lady said now if you have an area that's not
done common sense' is telling you nobody's using it, nobody is going
there, but the parks children are going there.
Councilmember Reiman asked Mr. Stone do you go down there?
Quite a few people use that Waterfront.
Mr. Stone said Phase Two is not done yet.
Councilmember Reiman said quite a few people use the current
Waterfront believe it or not. They go on that pier, to the extent that we
had to block it off with boulders because people were driving on there.
Councilmember Sohayda said 4th of July there was probably 200
people out there.
Councilmember Reiman said 200 people on the pier.
Mr. Stone said and they said back there in Pop Warner alone, there's
300 children. I mean what are you guys telling me. We're going to
neglect a thousand kids because 200 guys go on the pier.
24
JULY 30, 2002
Councilmember Reiman said nobody's is telling you that. You stand
up and you make these suggestions or comments. We're elected to do COI~IMENTS CON ' '~
what we think is best for all of Carteret, for the children. Certainly the
priority has to be on the safety of the children and then we have to
worry about the seniors and all of Carteret. To stand there and attack
us and make these comments and innuendoes that are not doing what's
in the best interest of everybody in Carteret, that we're not looking to
protect the children is just absurd. It really is.
Mr. Stone said listen I don't get down and dig up tires and dig up
bricks the guy back there does that, I don't do that.
Councilmember Reiman said there are ways and money that we can go
ahead with this. Bear in mind we had an application in that was
schedule to be debated for the October round of funding. We could be
getting this money, this funding for these park projects. The second
point I want to make is come December of this year we have to
permanently finance $5,000,000.00 in notes that the 2000 Council
issued. So we can potentially add on $187,000.00, it's not going to
make a bit of difference the bottom line on that Bond Sale for this
project over here.
Mr. Stone said but potentials don't get the job done, money is
available.
Councilmember Reiman said I'm telling you.., money isn't available
just yet. I'm telling you we can go ahead and add that on and do it in
the same time fxame.
Mr. Stone said when we wind up in the fall and the parks are closed,
and the parks are not being used anymore, the parks are going to be
forgotten again and it's going to be another year of neglect, another
year of somebody getting hurt and maybe a potential law suite. The
Council has the opportunity now to take Phase Two money when
Phase One is not done and use that money to put our parks in condition
they should be in. Now it's up to the Council and use people have to
make that decision.
Councilmember Reiman said if you come to every meeting the
Council has an up until we received this award of $500,000.00 never
once addressed any of the park safety issues or concerns with the
parks, never once. So I mean certainly we have problems with the
parks and we need to address those and we need to look at them.
Councilmember Fazekas, when he was up here put together a five year
plan and as Councilmember Crilley, kind of picked up on that plan
and...
Mr. Stone said you've done a good job here with that I must say until
you took the money away.
Councilmember Santoro said he didn't take it, Mr. Stone I did. I was
in charge of Parks at that time.
Mr. Stone said ...(inaudible)... I'm not saying him. I mean I don't
want to knock him because he's running for Mayor. God forbid I
should say anything.
25
JULY 30, 2002
Mayor Failace said regardless.
Mr. Stone said I'll say whatever to the Council. All I know is you
took $100,000.00 and dumped it to pay down a debt which was like
$20,000,000.00.
Councilmember Reiman said we never paid down a debt. What we
did with the $100,000.00 was tax relief, instead of raising the taxes the
extra point we cut it ...(inaudible)
Mr. Stone said alright I'm sorry I plead ignorant on that, I thought you
said you were taking it to pay down a debt.
Councilmember Reiman said we were originally looking to pay down
a debt but it couldn't be done. The Parks Committee...
Councilmember Santoro said and I made a recommendation at that
point that we could cover the work that we'd done. We continued the
work nothing was neglected from what Councilman Crilley had started
and you know what in all applauding us Mr. Stone, if we make that
transfer tonight then we did more than what he planned originally. So
you know what it's easy to sit back and criticize for what we didn't do
but give us a little credit for what we've done.
Mr. Stone said Janet, I'm not the one saying that the parks are in poor
condition. My Grandchildren live in Florida so I don't take them to
the park. I can only listen to the people here. Common sense gotta tell
you if Phase One is not done and you're going to Phase Two, you
haven't spent the money yet. Let's do something with what we got.
Let's get the money when we get to Phase Two.
Councilmember Reiman asked will the Council be willing to ask the
D.E.P. that we use the funding, the $500,000.00 for the Pop Warner
Field and the remaining three hundred thousand and change for the
Waterfront Phase Two.
Councilmember Parisi said no.
Mr. Stone said something inaudible.
Councilmember Santoro said but Danny.
Mayor Failace said I am ...(inaudible)... and again I tell you certainly
we would be adding when we do the Waterfront. We would be adding
a park, a nice park there's no doubt about that. It would be nice to go
down there and have lunch instead of going to Sewaren to have lunch,
but we're already spending 2.4 million dollars on that dock, and that's
quite a chunk of change. I guess a lot of people use that to go fishing I
am not sure if it's 300 people or as many as the young people that use
the Sportsmen's Field and Carteret Park, or Chrome Park but while I
think the Waterfront is a good and viable project I still believe we need
to finish the park. We need to finish Carteret Park; we need to finish
Chrome Park, we have plans to finish and do more work in Chrome
Park. We originally put in the playground equipment and the
basketball court and we spent a ton of money on that ball field
unfortunately it is not being used now, but we spent a lot of money and
a lot of time and effort on getting that baseball/softball field up to par.
26
DULY 30, 2002
I believe that is one of the better fields in Carteret quite honestly. We
COMMENTS CON' T
need to use this money the best.., leave here now and it's 100 degrees
out and go down to the park and look at the basketball court and I bet
you got 50 kids and adults playing on the basketball court right now.
The playground equipment, go down to the park there's bars sticking
up out of the ground. I made this point quite awhile ago because there
was a problem with it that it was sticking up out of the ground and
some grandparents called me up about some of their children, one of
the women got hurt pushing her kid on a swing. I mean these are
things that we have to do. While the Waterfront is a great idea it needs
to be done. Sportsmen, Jacks right I've sat there especially sense I've
been Mayor I sat at every one of the banquets and heard someone say
the last time when we first put in for the grant.., we put in for the grant
were gonna fix this now, we're finally gonna fix this. Well now we
got the money and now we need to do that, we need to fix that, we
need to not let the children ...(inaudible)... for the kids and I don't
want them to get hurt but the bottom line is it needs to be done. It's
needed to be done over the years and shame on us that we waited this
long but in wanting to hopefully stabilize taxes and not trying to raise
taxes and get the parents mad.., you try to fit everything in and
sometimes you can't do everything. Not sometimes all of the time you
can't do everything, but this is a time that we can do it and we must do
it.
Councilmember Santoro said and one thing Danny that's a bright idea
when you said about rolling in when we give the bonding in October
and the possibility if we had more time and it wasn't an August 15th
deadline we might be able to double a little bit more and that's the
thing that I fear, but I would sit with finance with you and see is there
another way that we could come up with the $500,000.00 to move
forward with the Second Phase of the Waterfront immediately, and
maybe there's a creative way we can sit with Patrick, sit with Don but
in the mean time file for those grants, but if we could get all of that
done and we can sit and become more creative and put all of that
together absolutely. Then we get everything done that we need to
move it ahead and I think now if we can commit and move forward
with that and find another way I would fully support that and we'll sit
and do that.
Councilmember Rios said why don't the Council consider using the
Open Space money for the field.
Councilmember Santoro said absolutely for the Second Phase of the
Waterfront...
Councilmember Rios said no, I'm sorry for the field.
Councilmember Santoro said oh, for the field, because we don't know
that that's going to pass...
Cotmcilmember Rios said but legislature still didn't...
Councilmember Santoro said.., and how that's going to happen
Ronnie and we're going to miss that. We're going to miss that August
15th deadline that money from that Open let's use that for the second
phase of the Waterfront. Alright, but if we pass this August 15th
deadline and we don't do the transfer of the money we know that it's
27
JULY 30, 2002
COMMENTS CON "?1' not going to get done in the park, alright so which one do you want to
gamble with.
Councilmember Reiman said we don't know that Janet, we don't know
that it's going to be done.
Mayor Failace said your fight we don't know.
Councilmember Santoro said we don't know, but we know we can get
it done.
Councilmember Reiman said we don't even know the numbers. I mean
we've heard 25, 35, 95, and today its 187- I wish we had...
Councilmember Santoro said Danny I always said $100,000.00 so if
there was any error and that was two years ago no different then when
they taunted about what the Waterfront was going to cost and it
changes. '
Mayor Failace said Frank has a copy of it so...
Councilmember Santoro said I don't know where the 25 and the 35
cause I never said that, but I remember when we did walk the field and
it was $100,000.00 for the repair of part of that field, but if we're
expanding it and maybe making it a little bit wider and that's were the
additional money came out, that's great and even better because you
get more for it.
There being no further comments or objections to the Resolutions, the
MEETING CLOSED Mayor declared the Public Heating closed, upon MMS&C, by
Councilmembers Parisi and Rios and unanimous affirmative vote of
the full Council present.
RESOLUTION #02-301 was introduced by the Mayor and referred to
RESOLUTION I02-301 the Council for Action.
Upon MMS&C, by Councilmembers Parisi and Sosnowski
RESOLUTION 02-301
"AUTHORIZING THE RELOCATION OF GREEN ACRES
FUNDING AND THE SUBMISSION OF A NEW GREEN ACRES
APPLICATION"
was adopted. Upon individual roll call vote, Councilmembers Parisi,
ADOPTED Santoro and Sosnowski voted in the affirmative. Councilmembers
Reiman, Rios and Sohayda voted no. Mayor James Failace voted in
the affirmative to break the tie.
COMMENTS Councilmember Pafisi said I think I've said all I needed to say, yes.
Councilmember Reiman said certainly everybody knows that I support
the Waterfront Project, I think that's perfectly clear. I appreciate the
Coaches coming that are in the back, today giving us their input and
28
JULY 30, 2002
their concem. I've offered a compromise to the Council this evening COMMENTS CON ' T
to use $87,000.00 of the $500,000.00 to do the Pop Warner Field. I've
said that we've been out there trying to get funding not only from the
D.E.P. but also from the County and other areas. We do have some
money left in capital right now that we can begin a portion of the
project with. We have a bond sale scheduled for December where we
can add on the $187,000.00. There's a ton of options that we have
available in front of us that we can go ahead and do the Pop Warner
Field. I don't think by transferring the money is the answer. I think
we have the opportunities to do the Pop Warner Field and to go ahead
with the Waterfront Phase Two Project. We're applying tonight for I
guess to vote those two and applying for Phase Two funding again.
The $500,000.00 isn't available tomorrow it's not like we can start the
Pop Warner Field tomorrow as much as we'd like to. We can't go out
and hire the engineer to design it and go out and bid and start the
project and have it completed by the end of the year, all though we
would all like to do that. The projects take time the money is scarce
whether it be from local tax dollars or from the D.E.P. Green Acres
Grant, but I don't think reshuffling the projects is the answer and again
I say to you that I do support the Pop Warner Field. I'd support a
Bond Sale for it, I support changing the question in November, I
support the additional penny on the Open Space Tax, I'd support using
it from capital or even transferring a portion of the funding, but I can't
support taking $500,000.00 from Phase Two of the Waterfront Project.
...(Inaudible)... projects that have up until an hour ago have changed
everyday and every week. First we said the pond, then we said this
field and that field and today it's down to the three projects, I vote no.
Councilmember Rios said no one up here is looking to say that we
want to hurt anyone or see any children get hurt or injured absolutely
not. I think I agree with Councilmember Reiman as far as saying that
we can use the money from the grant towards the Sportsman Field and
use the rest toward the Waterfront. I think the Waterfront will enhance
our Borough, it would put us in the map with the other towns like
Woodbridge, South Amboy, Perth Amboy and it's a project that we
started already and I say why not continue that project, I vote no.
Councilmember Santoro said I don't even know where to begin with it,
because I've supported.., no...
Mayor said no...
Councilmember Santoro said no, I'm going to state why is about
reshuffling the grant and transferring the money. I'd love to know
who are they to decide which was a priority to us, when we had this
money sitting in there and had asked for it before and I resent the fact
that... I appreciate they gave us the money, but if you had asked me
which one was important from the beginning, I would have always
supported to go with the parks that we originally filed for two years
ago, and as far as offering compromises and different solutions right
now, is tons of options that are possibly available to us well you know
what then we need to get together and find those tons of options and
find the money to complete Phase Two. Again this was in order. We
filed for this grant two years ago shame on us if we jump ahead of it.
That's what always happens as people change on this Council you
forget where your commitment was and to move forward. This is
something that.., we can do all of it Danny and you throw out there
29
JULY 30, 2002
that there's other options out there and I extended to you then we need
COMMENTS CON ' T to sit down and find those options available and fully support and get
th to
all of it done. Right now, tonight before August 15 , we need
decided what, how we're going to spend that money. I think it was
decided two years ago when we committed, and it wasn't the fact of
shuffling around whether to do the parks, whether to do the pond,
whether to do the Sportsmen Field we have a million dollars worth of
work out there and I apologize if we did not have the numbers handy
and given to us when we asked about them so we could be more exact.
But it doesn't hide the fact of what the projects were that we wanted to
commit to and wanted to get done. This is important, if every time
you planned and you put something forward and somebody else comes
up here and puts it aside and goes with their agendas then shame on us.
This is a time to put the things in order, move them ahead and I will
fully work and support with you to find the money, find the funding
and move the Second Phase of the Waterfront which I also fully
support forward not to let it go away. We can get it all done, and I
vote yes.
Councilmember Sohayda I've been listening to this for a couple of
years. I ran three years ago with Janet and I said I wanted to see the
Waterfront be finished. I would vote yes right now to fix the football
field and bond for the money, but I would not take the money away
from the Waterfront. This town will make $250,000.00, $300,000.00 a
year and that figure will escalate every year that boat slips are
renewed. It's ok to have the project started but you gotta have it
finished, I vote no.
Councilmember Sosnowski said I think Mr. Stone summed it up for
our parks for pretty much what we have we're not taking care of. If
we add another park on, our Parks Department is going to be
...(inaudible)...short. How are we going to take care of another park
on top of what we have with the people we have? I think we should
take it and fix what we have and then when the time permits do Phase
Two, and I vote yes.
Borough Clerk Barney said then we are at three - three.
Mayor Failace said certainly you know my position, and let me say
this again, I absolutely agree that the Waterfront Project is a good
project and it's one that needs to be completed. I disagree with
Councilmember Rios and Councilmember Sohayda in saying that we
need to deplete the project. I believe we need to fix the park, we need
to do the ball field. What Councilman Reiman has said is true there
are options down the road, well let me tell you we can do the park, we
can do the ball field and we can take those same options and put that
money towards the Waterfront. Whatever we can do. If we can go for
that $187,000.00 and add it to the bond later on, we can take that
$187,000.00 and add it to the bond and do the Waterfront. We can do
the same thing. The bottom line is we need to do the fields. We need
to do the Sportsmen Field, we need to do the park, and I don't want to
go over it over and over again. Every option we have.., and I agree
with Councilmember Santoro, I would do everything in my power to
insure that we get money, and you know what if we have to bond for a
few more dollars I am not adverse to that, ok in order to get the
Waterfront Project done, but this project, these projects need to be
done. If we're going to bond you know what, maybe we need to bond
30
JULY 30, 2002
for another million dollars because Danny says we need a million
dollars to finish the parks. I'm just saying...but you know my point is COMMENTS CON' T
that there's stuff out there and things that we need to do but there are
priorities. The priority is right at this moment is the park and the
Sportsmen Field so I certainly vote.., how do I vote, I vote yes. I
haven't done that in a while it's nice to be able to vote.
There being no further business or discussion, upon MMS&C, by
Councilmembers Rios and Padsi and unanimous affirmative vote of ADJOURNED
the full Council present, the meeting was adjourned at approximately
8:15 P.M.
Respectfully~ submitted,
K~THLEEN M. BARNEY, RMC~-~ _
Municipal Clerk
KMB/tr
31
OL¥ 30, 2002
;PECIAL MEETING
32