Loading...
HomeMy Public PortalAboutCity Council_Minutes_1961-01-31_Special 1961CITY OF TEMPLE CITY TEMPLE CITY, CALIFORNIA MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL ON JANUARY 31, 1961 City Manager Woollett called the Special Meeting of the City Council at 10: A. M. in the Council Chambers, The following Council- men were present: Dickason, Merritt, Tyrell & Fitzjohn. Also present from the Planning Commission were Commissioners Burr, Nunamaker, and Pursley® In addition Mr. & Mrs. Whitnall and City Manager Woollett. Woollett stated the meeting was in regard to the relationship of the City to the 701 program in connection with -a Master Plan. The proposed contract suggested by Mr. Whitnall was for some $36,000. and this figure became associated with the total cost of the project, with the City to contribute $9,000. in cash and $9,000. in materials as their half. Mr. Whitnall stated the principal question is of the amounts or costs. Thus far they have been required to do the whole thing. When estimating here they took factors they knew and on basis of their experience attached item price to each to make up the total. In connec- tion with City participation to absorb part of the cost they believe 50 %, or 25% of the whole project could be contributed in service costs. If some undertakings done by the City there is no reason why it should not be done as City participation. One of the things the City could do is equip the City with maps suited to our purpose, size, etc. Also an aerial survey which would contribute to the project so you can jus- tifiably charge that expense to participation. Using base maps and putting on them various data we are collecting their plans. This has to be done by drafting. The last one cost $1475. with on the job drafts- men, and some things he did himself which are not included in that fig- ure. Then all data from field survey is put on .I B M cards and must be in such form that it is most accurate form. In somewhat comparable area in City of Paramount the .amount for this was $1239. He can see no rea- son why the City should not take this out of the project and do it direct- ly. Another minor item we have to have is assessment data and assessors maps which are the only acceptable maps on property ownership. We would have to stipulate that the City provide these as the assessor will not give these to individuals, Mrs. Whitnall said the amount for this data plus maps covering the whole area they estimate at about $4000. The biggest item is that related to the actual survey which cost them $4576. and possibly more here as this figure is from Paramount where there are some large areas unoccupied and separate parcels where they did not have to get much in- formation so field work was accomplished much faster than here as this is much more urbanized and more parcels, also more population which means more research. Mr. Whitnall stated the last item which is mileage transporta- tion would probably not be as much for field crew, Here I. anticipate they could operate right from the City Hall. These items from our re- cords are $8085.81. This figure includes the followings 1. preparation of all base maps 2. all costs of running and punching cards 3. getting from County total assessment records for property within the City 4. field crew engaged for survey and any item of mileage but does not include preparation of study maps put on base maps. One of our crew will be selected to supervise the crew from day to day but we lay out the way best done and personally contribute our experience. This would have to be their men that know what they are doing, who could work out of the City Hall but closely under their supervision as they have to testify to the accuracy of the data. They would have to train the crew, and therefore would be very certain that the supervisor . knew exactly what was expected of him. They'have.to keep close check and discover any errors immediately or they have to go back and do it over. Regardless of where done they, have to be just as much applied to it as if they were doing it themselves and complete control must remain with them, 118 Special Council Meeting, January 31, 1961, page 2 Woollett asked when land survey would be done. Mr. Whitnall said two things could be done concurrently, 1- preparation of maps they are going to use, and 2 -the field survey. Can use existing county maps for the field survey. Would take literally a month to get under way. In survey they use personnel who work for the assessors office, as they are familiar with the area. You are contemplating getting federal aid and anything where they are involved takes time, but if cleared and obstacles removed he would say at least two months. Then request is submitted for consideration and if all in order will be added to list of cities in California that will be submitted as a group to Washington. Takes about 6 weeks from time submitted to be sent to Washington, and about 12 weeks before we heard from there. Mr.Whitnall expressed confidence that there is no question of approval by the state and federal government, and can see no reason why these preliminary tasks cannot be performed ahead of time and thus have much preparation in advance. Tyrell asked if it was not true in order for government to approve before work is done it would be possibly six months away before you can get the credit and anything we do before that time we are going to pay for out of our own funds. Whitnall advised there is nothing to prevent our doing some work before that time. There is enough in fund to take care of those requests in the offing. Woollett said he questioned Elton Andrews and they would have to have the plan some weeks before their meeting. Their March meeting will be in San Jose or San Francisco, and from recent experience with federal government takes about 6 weeks from time it is submitted, Mr. Whitnall said as far as the state is concerned they are better organiz- ed now and can go along more definitely. Tyrell had some questions regarding implementation of plan, which he felt rather nebulous. He stated he was present when plan was gone over in detail in regard to statistical maps, etc. This is primar- ily a developed community with houses here and we are not going to pick them up by the roots and re -zone. What we are doing as far as zoning is concerned is to plan our town for 50 to 70 years off. In doing this is it necessary to have such a comprehensive statistical re- search. Can we be driving down the street and by maps and photo -maps pick out how our town can be developed, and how we would like to have it. Is it necessary to find out how many people live in a house in order to determine how we want that to be 50 yrs. from now. It it necessary ?, Mr. Whitnall said it is necessary even though 100% occupied. This city like any city is constantly subject to metabolism, constant break -down and replacement. There is not involved any intention or effort to remake the city over -night but to so guide process of break- down and replacement so in replacement each unit will contribute to new conditions involved. To predicate a progressive program on the part of a city on one's guess I would not want to be responsible for. Tyrell said at best we are going to be estimating as to what we want in the future. Also why use survey as of now, why necessary for what we are trying to do in the future. Whitnall asked unless you know what it is how can you deter- mine what it is going to be? From your question you have a misconcep- tion of what is involved. Your questions have been regarding zoning. You have an area under your jurisdiction which area -wise we do not know how much devoted to high density population and low density population, or buying power, or area occupied by service. If you find that 10% is devoted these service activities and 90% is occupied by population or buying power it becomes very interesting to determine density of population of that 90 %, and what density is going to be, and what of the 90% is cooperating commercially -wise. Take Bullocks for instance it is possible to tab analysis these stores to determine where their patronage has come from, which also helps to determine location of major branch stores. First thing was to take large index files of charge accounts and spot them on a metropolitan map and it gave a pat- 119 Special Council Meeting, January 31, 1961, page 3 tern. They had a monopoly of Beverly Hills, but a scattering in Pasa- dena due partially to distance, so they put a store in Pasadena and you know with what success. Pursley advised we have a big zone problem. People are ask- ing for R -3 now. With your statistics in these cases we would know whether practical and financially feasible to tear off three houses to put an apartment on. In this particular case everyone was for it but now odds are 50 -50. If we had these statistics we would know whether it could be done right or not. Also R -3 on Temple City Blvd. is not used as R -3. What you would gather would show us what is being used and how in our area. Nunamaker stated in writing a zoning law you have to have all this information, and both for a comprehensive plan which the state law requires every city to have. Tyrell stated this does not require all this research to do this. Some areas do this by citizens clubs, etc. We are concerned with tax funds. The schools collect their money and they would not give us any school money. If this research program is for taxes and school processes we do not need it. We are interested in zoning and processes. We do not have a real property tax by which the city bene- fits. The school has. It is up to the school to determine what their potential is. Whitnall stated he did not know how far wrong you can be. The present status tax -wise is due to just becoming a city. Somehow the people locally pay the bills. The people representing the city are not concerned with what the property owners pay, they are paying it. The amount you pay depends upon the physical characteristics of the city being served. The school dept. has no control over that nor the fire department. It surprises me that even the thought could exist that the city does not have any control over schools. Population is a prime concern to the city. They are going to have to determine the extent to which certain types of land use will predominate. Mrs. Whitnall asked what about public facilities? How much of each do you think you need, sewers, streets, etc. How do you know whether you are going to need them widened, whether sewer facilities are going to serve? Tyrell said we do not know but I do not think you can deter. mine on how successful our business area is going to be 50 years from now, nor how many people, and I do not think you can determine any better than we can, at least I have not been convinced in my mind.that you can. What we are interested in is what we want to make it in the future without regard to what it is now. Dickason said you have to know where you are before you can make a change. Nunamaker said we do not know about driveways, sewers, etc. Fitzjohn said I do not think you can plan for the future unless you have a plan, and I feel that the money that we spend here we will get back. Mrs. Whitnall stated apparently the Commission and the Coun. cil are not convinced whether or not you want this program. Tyrell said he is not convinced all this is necessary but am still interested in hearing why. Why is all this necessary to plan out our city. We have people here, it is a small area, why so necessary to go so comprehensively 50 yrs. from now. Fitzjohn asked if the cities they had served progressed sub- stantially through the Master Plan.. Nunamaker stated the Planning Com- mission is convinced and they have passed it to the Council and they have taken no action, and in finding out all of these things we would probably have better schools as we do not have enough industry and big business to furnish them with necessary funds. Pursley referred to an interview concerning putting in a shopping area here and if we had this information we could have answered them in a hurry as before coming in 120 Special Council Meeting, January 31, 1961, page 4 they would run a survey. Tyrell said it is not a question of you people doing a good job but are we buying a Cadillac instead of an M.G. Nunamaker said this costing $36,000. If we pay $7,000. for flying maps which zoning laws require you are going to spend money on that. Mr. Whitnall advised they are not available to undertake our zoning when it comes to preparing maps unless they have information to make it and unless applied realistically. Mrs. Whitnall asked if we wanted to apply it by map at the present time how are we going to determine what densities and classi- fications. How much multiple can we have to support commercial that will be here. If you have R -3 and it developes R -1 because noone wants it to be R -3 you have public facilities too much for R -1, or if R -3 and you had a bad guess then you have not enough facilities. Dickason said it seems to him it is a real basic thing. You have to know where you are before you can go some place. He asked just how much support they give the Planning Commission in respect to public coming in and in helping to give the public answers. Whitnall answered they stipulate in any agreement entered into that they deal with matterE before the Commission and Council. They would serve continuously, and definitely with the Planning Commission to deal with current items on the agenda and analyze them, °and in a consulting capacity. They will never make a decision but will give information that will assist us. Further than that the procedures with special reference to zoning re- quire at certain steps, advertised public hearings before both the Commission and Council. We hope that we will be permitted to partici- pate in certain degree. After meeting opened and proposals all declar- ed, it is possible that we be called upon to almost conduct meeting from then on bringing in questions and answers. We do the same thing with the Council but always within desires of two bodies. These ser- vices are for period of contract plus 3 months. There would be four or six open hearings. Mrs. Whitnall advised as an additional service they will con- duct within the City what they call "Planning Clinics. These are com- posed of members of the Council, Commission, staff heads, and for cer- tain citizens, possibly from Chamber of Commerce members and leading business leaders andcitizens clubs. Limited because of size of group. People would sign up for it and agree to attend. They will give an elementary course in planning which they both give at U.S.C. which covers zoning principles for 1 hr. and then take areas in Temple City to discuss. When they are through the course in a city you have a group of people in the city that know zoning and planning to a degree and you will have support for what is being done. This is part of ser- vice they render. Mr. Whitnall said he felt maybe the principal matter of con- cern was to determine whether feasible to segregate items so as to place on the city's side an amount that would represent 50% if you want- ed to divide it. As administrative function it is feasible to divide tasks of what city can as well do, and to translate in dollars and cents so city can ascertain whether feasible to do so in meeting 50% by City with 1/2 in certain services, and still keep in $36,000. figure. The amount quoted was their sincere best estimate for the project as- suming they were going to do it. He advised in Hawthorne they are add- ing one thing in their survey they are including a building condition survey of age, type, physical condition, etc, If you wish it here that can be determined later, but they would not want to take that on as they do not feel technically qualified, but it could be added to city portion of city's 25% service,. Mrs. Whitnall emphasized control must remain with them, otherwise they would have no authenticity. ATTEST: ° .Meeting adjourned. 121