Loading...
HomeMy Public PortalAbout08-09-2005PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES — AUGUST 9, 2005 PRESENT: TOM CROSBY, MARILYN FORTIN, DICK PICARD, LENNY LEVER, TOM SUPEL, MARY VERBICK AND DOUG DICKERSON. ALSO PRESENT CITY PLANNER ROSE LORSUNG, PLANNING CONSULTANT SARAH SCHIELD AND PLANNING AND ZONING ASSISTANT SANDIE LARSON ABSENT: NONE 1. CALL TO ORDER Chairperson Dick Picard called the meeting to order at 7:04 p.m. He reminded everyone that the Planning Commission was a recommending body and the City Council made the final decisions. 2. PUBLIC FORUM There were no comments. 3. ROBERT HOPPER — 2455 COUNTY ROAD 24 — SETBACK VARIANCE FOR HORSE SHELTER Rose Lorsung said she had been notified today by the applicant and the applicant's representative that they wished their item to be tabled until the September meeting so they could further study staff s analysis of the application. Jack Anderson, 2785 County Road 24, asked that he be kept informed of the schedule. Tom Crosby asked if we re -notified when an item is tabled. R. Lorsung said we are not legally bound to do so, but we will re -notify f it is not on the September agenda. We will notify Mr. Anderson whenever it is back on the agenda. MOVED BY TOM CROSBY AND SECONDED BY MARILY FORTIN TO TABLE THE HOPPER APPLICATION TO THE SEPTEMBER PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. MOTION PASSED 4. STEVE MARTIN — 4650 MAPLE STREET — CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AMENDMENT FOR COMMERCIAL HORSE FACILITY — PUBLIC HEARING Rose Lorsung went over her report and stated that Steve Martin and Myrna Lysne were present this evening. She stated that the proposed new owner, Steve Martin, was requesting an amended CUP to continue running a commercial horse facility. He is proposing to do a large amount of improvements to the property. In return he is asking for the same amount of horses that is allowed with the current CUP. Rose also stated that Mr. Martin was working with both the University of Minnesota and Three Rivers Park District on water quality. Planning Commission Minutes 1 August 9, 2005 R. Lorsung said as the planning commission knows, the property has been in decline for several years with respect to manure management and overall management of the commercial horse facility. The proposed new owner, Mr. Martin, is anxious to clean up the property and staff has begun to already notice the changes. Mr. Martin has contracted a hauler to remove nearly all the manure and is also looking into working with Minnesota Mulch and Soil to treat future manure storage in the existing enclosed concrete containers. Tom Crosby asked if the current CUP was only for the owner. R. Lorsung said the CUP goes with the land. T. Crosby asked if we (the City) had others where we have reviewed CUP's with new ownership. R. Lorsung said we have only reviewed Alpine and that was a new CUP. Steve Martin thanked the Planning Commission for being here. He said he was not a business man, that he was a pilot and has an 11 year old daughter that is smitten with horses. He said he met Myrna a few years ago and was keenly aware of issues with the wetlands. He said the wetlands will be protected as best we can, but we do need to operate to make a profit so the number of horses is critical. Mr. Martin said all five of the Best Management Practices that are mentioned in the staff report and the new resolution #2 will be done. He said #6 that talks about the manure containment in the concrete bunkers. Mr. Martin said the bunkers have collapsed and he will re -do them and that is where the stall manure will go. He said the bunkers have walls that are 3' high and the floor is 9" thick. One will be filled then will start another one. Marty (from Mn, Mulch and Soil) will be called to pick up the manure from the 1st one and will come back when the 2nd one is full. He said there will be somewhat of a cover on them although some rain will get through and the water will help with the decomposition and will not go any place. S. Martin said his other concern is #3 and the number of horses in the pasture. He said box stall boarding with turnout is an established practice. He then pointed out on attachment #4 what his plans were. Dick Picard said he is troubled with the `sacrifice pasture' in that it is right next to the wetland. R. Lorsung said the U of M guideline is 1 animal unit per grazable acre and the PCA's is 1 animal unit per 2-5 grazable acres. She said there are about 13 grazable acres on this site. She said this site has been classified as one of the most pristine areas of Hennepin County and Best Management practices are very important. S. Martin said his intent is to see how it goes and how long it takes for a pasture to recover. He said he will keep an eye on the pasture areas and he will drag and dispose of the manure in the pastures. Betsy Gilkerson said willow trees, etc. will aid in the run-off. Planning Commission Minutes 2 August 9, 2005 S. Martin said if he had 50-55 horses he could have that many outside at once except for those who want their horses more private in the paddock areas. He said he would anticipate rotating the horses. He said he would keep the pasture boarded horses in the pasture that borders County Road 19. R. Lorsung clarified that the number of horses allowed in pasture at any one time is 15. She said that does not mean that other horses could not be in the paddock, outdoor arena, etc. Mary Verbick asked what was different with a pasture and a `sacrifice' pasture. S. Martin said the `sacrifice' pasture is an area where you don't worry about the grass. M. Verbick said it is virtually a paddock and Martin said yes. R. Lorsung said the Three Rivers Park District is a good example of how your separate paddock and pasture areas. There was discussion of the different pasture areas, paddocks, etc. Mike McLaughlin, representative for LICA, asked Rose if it was 15 horses in pasture in addition to horses in the paddocks and Rose said yes. There was continued discussion of the pastures, of pastures being on a steep slope and how it could be open to horses if there was to be a buffer zone. R. Lorsung said that she and Betsy Gilkerson had walked the site and preliminarily set up the area. She said wetland conservation requires a buffer zone. M. McLaughlin said it would be a good idea to include the setbacks from the wetlands in the CUP. R. Lorsung said the Pioneer Sarah Creek Watershed District does not have setback requirements to a buffer. M. McLaughlin said he thought there was in the 2nd generation plan. R. Lorsung said the City does not have a wetland buffer ordinance in the residential areas, but that staff is working on implementing one. M. McLaughlin asked if the CUP follows PCA guidelines for this type of facility. R. Lorsung said yes. M. McLaughlin asked if the BMP's would be in the CUP and Rose said yes. Mr. McLaughlin said when he has walked on Maple Street there was manure as far as he could kick and wondered of the applicant would be responsible for cleaning up the problems. Planning Commission Minutes 3 August 9, 2005 R. Lorsung said the applicant has said he is following through with an environmental assessment of the entire property. M. McLaughlin said considering the past it is a good idea to put it in the CUP, the condition of clean up. S. Martin said Phase I of the environmental assessment is done. He said the document will investigate the history of the property and any known contaminants that are in the area. He said there are no indications of any contaminants. M. McLaughlin said if there is 2' of manure we are talking phosphorous and nitrogen. He wondered if in the BMP there would be a buffer zone around the wetland. S. Martin said Betsy Gilkerson walked the property with him a few weeks ago. There was discussion of the placement of pastures, fences, etc. S. Martin said attachment is not to scale. He said fences, etc. will go where Gilkerson recommends. R. Lorsung said staff is quite pleased with what new owner has and is doing. There is no ordinance at this time to require any buffers to the wetlands. M. McLaughlin said this site is a crazy place to put 50 horses. R. Lorsung pointed out on the map done by Betsy Gilkerson where the good soils and pastures were located. She said Dave Thill of Hennepin County has also walked the property. S. Martin said the fencing will be in harmony with what the U of M extension office says. He said this is the 2nd largest horse operation in Medina. D. Picard said to Mr. Martin that his property was a natural flow to Lake Ardmore and Lake Independence. Carol Schield, 3155 Lakeshore Ave., said our lake is now `impaired water' She said more horses, more talk, more promises. What really will be done? She said she is very concerned about his. The manure was to be taken care of every year since 1989 and has not been. R. Lorsung said we are not allowing the number that is in the current CUP.. We are limiting the number of horses in the pastures. She said the City has not had the staff to monitor CUP's in the City and we are now trying to help clean up this property. R. Lorsung said the CUP goes with the land and we cannot deny, but we can put other conditions on it. Planning Commission Minutes 4 August 9, 2005 Myrna Lysne said she disagrees with those that said they no longer see turtles; she said she has seen at least 100 this spring. She said she never had horses out 24/7 except the last few years. Mitch Schields, 3155 Lakeshore Ave., said this seems like a good opportunity to clean things up. He said rotational grazing works well if managed well and he applauds the City for all the work they have done on this. He did say he did not feel they were notified enough of this meeting. M. Schield said it is important to slow down a little. He said the conditions could be improved. He said he feels there has been an increase in phosphorous, chloroform, ecoli, etc. He did say the manure droppings in the street have improved. He said he would recommend denial or approval with strict conditions like soil sample twice a year. What happens if MN Mulch & Soil goes out of business? He said he was concerned with runoff of the paddock areas and also with snow melt and knowing where the runoff is going. Schield wondered where the runoff from the outdoor arena goes. He said a decision should be delayed until the public can comment. Wes Schroeder, 3705 County Road 19, said if you look at the water flow in the N and NE, it comes from Loretto. He said there were a lot more pollutants from there. R. Lorsung said to Mr. Schield that per state statute, residents are notified within 350' from the applicant's site. She said she appreciates the comments and once again said this cannot be denied but the planning commission could table the application. Rose also said she had talked to John Barten, the water quality expert from Three Rivers Park and he said there was not enough data to comment. She said we have gotten the PCA involved and have been to the site. R. Lorsung said to Dr. Schroeder that it is also her understanding that septic systems are more of a problem. She said 2 major issues are large feedlots and failing septic systems in Independence and Medina. She said all the septic systems around the Lake have been tested and all of Medina's are o.k. and there are a few in Independence that are failing. She said all we can do is allow property owners their rights and put conditions on the best we can. M. McLaughlin asked if the problem was septic systems or the Loretto sewer ponds. R. Lorsung said both. M. McLaughlin said he has taken snapshots and the data does show that there is more phosphorous coming in than should. R. Lorsung said we want to improve the water quality. M. McLaughlin said commercial use is different than just horses on private property. D. Picard read the LICA recommendations that include many to help clean up the lake and water quality. C. Schield wanted to know why horses were not removed when they found a manure pile. What guarantees do we have it will be different his time. Planning Commission Minutes 5 August 9, 2005 T. Crosby said the 1st item on the agenda addresses what you just said. Someone did something wrong and now has to fix it. He said with CUP's of this type, complaints bring results. S. Martin said he understands the concerns. He said he also lives on a lake and he can only tell you was the 1st thing he did was remove the manure piles and he intends to follow thru with his business. M. Verbick said to Ms. Schield that she understands her misgivings. She said she sees this as a very good opportunity where staff is making (in legal parameters) to make some good changes and the owner also wants to make changes. She said it is very valuable for Ms. Schield to bring up her concerns. Scott Eaton, 3180 Birch Ave., wondered what would become of this site if it were not commercial. He said they have always been good neighbors and there are loads of turtles in the pond, they are sitting on the logs. They are harder to see because of the vegetation. Mike Johnson, 4505 Walnut Street, said Mr. Martin has good intentions and he wants to see him succeed. He added that the manure on Maple Street 3 years ago was a disaster zone and he would like to see a condition that manure is to be picked up daily on Maple Street. He also asked if there would be new fencing. S. Martin said yes and described what kind of fence he would put up. There was discussion of the overnight trailer parking and the neighbors were concerned if this was to be on Maple Street. S. Martin said the parking would be in the NW corner and it was for those who had living quarters in their horse trailers. He said this was something he was just thinking about. Marilyn Fortin wanted to know if the fence to keep the horses out of the wetlands would be electric and also said the fence should be something that blends in. M. McLaughlin said about property rights; if we were talking about gas or oil instead of phosphorous it would be different. He wondered how much phosphorous we were going to allow. R. Lorsung said if we allow 50 horses there will only be 15 in pasture at any one time. She said the manure from the paddocks will go into the containment area. She said there is no way we can put in a condition to monitor the phosphorous. There was discussion of soil testing, etc. D. Picard said we should defer to John Barton. M. McLaughlin said that is how farmers know how much fertilizer to use, by soil testing. Planning Commission Minutes August 9, 2005 S. Martin wondered if it was a condition for him, if all the commercial horse facilities in Medina would have to do it. C. Schield wanted to know how many facilities are connected to a body of water. There was a discussion of the number of commercial and CUP's. S. Eaton, said what about all the horses that ride in Hennepin Parks. R. Lorsung said the City had to tell Hennepin County to implement their own Best Managements Practices. . T. Crosby said point of order: How are we going to make a decision. We should close the public hearing. D. Picard said he will do that and closed the public hearing. T. Crosby said his main concern is if there are 15 horses in the pasture it will take a huge amount of manpower to get them there and back. He said he endorses most of the changes, but even keeping the number to 15 in the pastures there could still be major problems. He said he will go along with the proposal, but told Mr. Martin he would be held to the conditions. M. Fortin said it seems Mr. Martin is serious about wanting to improve this site and she commends Rose for all the work she has done. Marilyn said she would add conditions #25 — soil testing and #26 — manure picked up on the streets and also the manure in the paddocks daily. M. Lysne said the paddock manure is picked up 3 times a week. Doug Dickerson asked how many stalls there were in the barn. S. Martin said 60; there were 2 barns with 30 each. D. Dickerson said what he saw when he visited the site was horrible. He said it doesn't seem like the manure is picked up very often, there was rope, etc. in the pasture. He said it seems like a lot of work to get the site cleaned up. S. Martin said he admits it and he is not afraid to do the work to clean it up. He said Myrna has done the best she could. M. Lysne said the reason she offered the site for sale was that she had no money to do what needs to be done. D. Dickerson wanted to know if 10 p.m. was workable (#12). M. Lysne said she never had anyone there past 10 p.m. She said we close at 8 p.m. on weekends. Planning Commission Minutes 7 August 9, 2005 M. Verbick said the concrete bunkers seem to work very well and that the manure stays mostly dry and trucks come in a take it away. She said just this one things makes a huge difference. Tom Supel said this is a step forward but at the same time from comments this evening, it is embarrassing that the City has not put resources to this issue. He said it is somehow unfortunate that we talk but do not commit resources to do anything. He said conditions in the CUP is a step and testing should not be just the ground but the water also and whether the city pays or assesses the property owners, so including testing should be in the conditions. T. Supel said we should also be thinking about wetland setbacks. He said there is no question of Mr. Martin's intentions, but years from now may be a burden. He said conditions #2, the number of horses makes him nervous. He suggests that we make it more specific with the maximum number of horses. T. Supel said #7, the number of employees; 5 seem too small and we should clarify full time, part time, etc. M. Verbick said it is important to remember the history of the area. She said 20 years ago this was a farming area. She said the applicant is willing to educate himself and to use BMP's. She said it is important to remember that something will be there and it looks like things will be better. She said we need to be careful of the conditions, they need to be managed. There was discussion on what area were better for pastures. Lenny Leuer asked Rose who Andy was. R. Lorsung said he is Minnesota Mulch and Soil. L. Leuer asked about his comment of the site being a `test' area. R. Lorsung said the practices that are proposed could be copied. L. Leuer asked about water and there was discussion of water and how it would be brought to the far pasture. L. Leuer asked the status of the house. S. Martin said the outside would be fixed up. Myrna will live there and be the caretaker of the day to day operation. L. Leuer said to add a condition that there be a manager on site at all times. S. Martin said there will be 2 full time people there. Planning Commission Minutes 8 August 9, 2005 L. Leuer said there have been comments about horses riding into the I.B. residential area. How do we keep them from there? M. Lysne said my riders have never done that. L. Leuer said we should restrict that. R. Lorsung said it can be a condition, no riding south or west of Maple Street. L. Leuer wanted to know how we will count the horses. R. Lorsung said we will do periodic visits. She said a foal of six months or less is not counted as an animal unit. D. Picard said there is unique topography on this site. He said his 1st comment was to commend staff, getting outside opinions, etc. There was further discussion on # of horses, pastures, etc. D. Picard asked when the manure storage facility would be ready. S. Martin said by 9-1-05 or within 2 weeks of closing. D. Picard asked when the last time was when manure was removed. M. Lysne said 2 years ago. D. Picard asked how many of the improvements are being done with grants from the state, etc. S. Martin said the fencing from the wetlands and erosion control could qualify for application for grants. More discussion of improvements, grants, etc. D. Picard said if work hinges on grants some work may not be done. He asked Mr. Martin if he could handle all the projects without the grants and Mr. Martin said yes. R. Lorsung said with the duration of this discussion, she recommends this go to the council on 9-6-05 instead of 8-16-05. T. Crosby said he would strongly recommend that the sacrifice pasture be where pasture #1 is shown. T. Supel said he agrees with Rose's suggestion on her conditions but recommends that there be a new set of conditions based on soil testing and he would suggest John Barton's 1st three points in Planning Commission Minutes 9 August 9, 2005 his memo. Tom also said that until we have wetland setbacks, we should pick a number or whatever the ordinance states when there is a number. D. Dickerson asked how this would be policed, would it be yearly. He said we should add a condition for more frequent checks from the City. R. Lorsung said it would be checked yearly but we can stop by anytime. D. Dickerson said he thought it should be part of the CUP to do it more frequently for the first few years. The following are conditions from staff report and also as suggested by the planning commission: (some of the conditions show the changes from the current conditional use permit) 1. The number of accessory buildings shall not exceed five eight and they shall not occupy an area in excess of 1 % five percent of the 45 acre parcel and all accessory buildings housing animals shall be and shall remain at least 150 feet from all present and future lot lines; 2. The number of horses at the facility shall not exceed 69 50 at any time, until such time that best management practices are initiated and completed. Two additional horses will be allowed per best management practice. Best management practices are defined as fencing around wetland buffered areas, erosion control measures, manure removal twice a year, reestablishment of pasture areas, and rotational grazing. 3. The number of horses allowed in the pasture areas shall not exceed 15 at any time. 4. No toilet facility requiring a drainfield shall be constructed at the arena; 5. Manure removal shall conform to the regulations of the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency; 6. All excess manure shall be stored in the concrete containment bunkers to be treated and removed twice annually; 7. The number of employees at the facility shall not exceed 4-9 5 and employee parking shall be on the lot located to the north of the existing barn as indicated on Exhibit A approved by the City; 8. The applicants shall cause traffic associated with all horse activity to be restricted to the Maple Street entrance from County Road 19, which includes the transferring of horses from the western pastures to the east pasture; 9, The applicants shall execute an agreement with the City in a form satisfactory to the city attorney agreeing to contribute one third of the cost of improving Maple Street, not to exceed $15,000, whcn it is upgraded; Planning Commission Minutes 10 August 9, 2005 10. Any signs shall conform to zoning ordinance standards applicable to residential districts; 11. There shall only be ne an outside public address system used for special events, two permitted per year with an approved special use permit; 12. The hours of operation of the facility shall be restricted to 6:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. midnight daily; 13. The applicants shall install two mercury vapor fixtures for outside lighting, which fixtures shall be downward facing so as not to broadcast light off the premises continue to remain in conformance with the lighting ordinance; 14. There shall be no outside storage allowed except for licensed vehicles and trailers and one tractor with a manure spreader; 15. There shall be permitted up to three overnight trailer camping stalls permitted at the property, with a city approved location; 16. All fencing on the property shall be kept in good operating condition; 17. The applicant shall install fencing around all newly -created pastures and keep the fencing in good repair. by city staff; 19. The applicant may have one separate living quarters for employees, to be approved by the City; 20. The applicant may install an outdoor riding arena, with a City -approved site plan; 21. The applicant shall create at least two sacrifice pasture areas; 22. The applicant shall reestablish the pasture area to the immediate west of the stream; 23. The applicants shall hold no more than two major horse shows per year at the facility, which shows shall be subject to city regulations involving special events; and 24. The applicants shall pay to the city a fee in the amount necessary to reimburse the city for its cost in reviewing this application for an amended conditional use permit. The following were changes/additions by the planning commission: 1. Manure to be removed from pasture areas 3 times per week to avoid topical accumulation 2. Periodic soil and water testing 3. manure removed from Maple Street Planning Commission Minutes 11 August 9, 2005 4. Delineated wetland and buffer areas 5. Manure removed from paddock areas 3 times per week 6. Manure stored in concrete 7. Manager on site at all times 8. Animal units - ? 9. No horse traffic allowed in the Independence Beach residential area — horses to be kept on Maple and trails in Hennepin Parks. 10. Review every three months to ensure applicant is in compliance. 11. Define more clearly in #2, the maximum number of horses. 12. No trailer parking longer than 7 days at a time. 13. Temporary toilet facilities provided during special events MOVED BY TOM CROSBY AND SECONDED BY TOM SUPEL TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE AMENDED CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT WITH THE AMENDED CONDITIONS. FOR BAKER VIEW EQUESTRIAN FOR BOARIDING, BREEDING, SELLING AND TRAINING OF HORSES: MOTION PASSED 5. MIKE LEUER — PARKVIEW DRIVE — 3 LOT SUBDIVISION — PUBLIC HEARING Torn Crosby stated that he has worked with Mr. Petrucci for many years (Property owner) so said he would step down for this application. (Mr. Crosby left the table). Rose Lorsung said she would go thru her report and at the end of the report she will ask that this be tabled until the City's new ordinance on soils is adopted and in that way prevent having to put a moratorium on RR development. Mike Leuer said he is unclear on the 5 acre requirement. Mark Gronberg, Gronberg and Associates, said soils were done the way we have always done it. He said nothing will change in our application. R. Lorsung said she is not comfortable reviewing an application without the council making a decision on the ordinance. Mary Verbick asked how what came in today would impact our review. R. Lorsung mentioned the fill. Gary Petrucci said he did get a deminious exemption from John Smyth. We put in less than 2000, about 1400, feet of fill. We are putting in a conservation easement by the lake which means a 50' setback from the lake. Planning Commission Minutes 12 August 9, 2005 R. Lorsung said there are other wetlands and all need to be delineated and this is not connected to the soils calculations. M. Verbick said she agrees with staff to table the application. Tom Supel asked if some of this was just a technicality. G. Petrucci asked why we should be penalized. Precedence has been set for years and our application should be reviewed just like any other development. There was much discussion on why this could not be reviewed tonight without reviewing it the way the ordinance is stated, not counting the slopes over 6%. G. Petrucci said why not review this subject to council approving the ordinance. R. Lorsung said we just received your wetland delineation today so cannot review. She stated we need material 30 days for review. Dick Picard said you have us between a rock and hard place. He said he goes along with staff and he also understands the applicant not being very happy with the decision. MOVED BY MARY VERBICK AND SECONDED BY DOUG DICKERSON TO TABLE THE MIKE LEUER APPLICATION UNTIL THE SOIL CALCULATION ORDINANCE IS ADOPTED AND STAFF HAS TIME TO REVIEW THE MATERIAL JUST SUBMITTED. MOTION PASSED. 6. SIGN ORDINANCE AMENDMENT — PUBLIC HEARING Rose Lorsung said this item is to be tabled as staff has not had time to put it together. MOVED BY MARY VERBICK AND SECONDED BY TOM SUPEL TO TABLE THE SIGN ORDINANCE AMENDMENT TO NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. MOTION PASSED. 7. MINUTES OF JULY 12, 2005. MOVED BY MARY VERBICK AND SECONDED BY MARILYN FORTIN TO APPROVE THE MINUTES WITH CORRECTIONS. MOTION PASSED. 8. RESCHEDULE MEETINGS. Planning Commission Minutes 13 August 9, 2005 Sandie Larson said the October and November meetings will need to be held at the Community Building due to construction at city hall. 9. PLANNER'S REPORT Rose Lorsung said that Mr. Musich has asked that his application be tabled until the ordinance is done. Lenny Leuer said it looks like there is 4 3/4 acres on the lot where the house is. R. Lorsung apologized for missing that. She said she has met with Mr. Musich's realtor for what they need to do before coming back. They need to do some soil borings and will provide more information. R. Lorsung said hopefully the city council will understand what we are trying to do. There was more discussion on the soils ordinance. R. Lorsung went over what would be at the next council meeting and also the next planning commission meeting. Dick Picard reminded the planning commissioners to let him know if they could not attend a meeting. Doug Dickerson asked about walk in horse shelters and there was some discussion on them and when the 150' setback started. MOVED BY MARY VERBICK AND SECONDED BY MARILYN FORTIN TO ADJOURN. MOTION PASSED. Meeting adjourned at 11:03 p.m. Planning and Zoning Assistant Date Planning Commission Minutes 14 August 9, 2005