HomeMy Public PortalAbout08-10-2004PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES — AUGUST 10, 2004
PRESENT: BILL LOE, MARILYN FORTIN, ELIZABETH WEIR, LENNY LEUER,
MARY VERBICK, RON JOHNSON AND DICK PICARD. ALSO PRESENT
CITY PLANNER JOSH DOTY, CITY ADMINISTRATOR CHAD ADAMS
AND PLANNING AND ZONING ASSISTANT SANDIE LARSON.
1. CALL TO ORDER
Chairperson Elizabeth Weir called the meeting to order at 7:01 p.m. Ms. Weir reminded those in
attendance that the planning commission is a recommending body and that the city council made
the final decisions.
Ms. Weir requested that item #5 be brought to the beginning of the agenda.
MOVED BY MARILYN FORTIN AND SECONDED BY MARY VERBICK TO MOVE
ITEM #5 TO THE BEGINNING OF THE AGENDA
MOTION PASSED.
2. PUBLIC FORUM
There were no public comments.
5. CHARLES CUDD — SUBDIVISION AND PUD — PUBLIC HEARING
Josh Doty stated that the original plan was to have the rezoning and the preliminary plat heard at
the public hearing tonight. Josh stated that based on meeting with the Metropolitan Council
there could be conditions placed on the application by the Met council, so therefore staff
recommends that the application be tabled until such information is received. He also said that
he had been in phone contact with the developer and they agree with staff s recommendation.
Bill Freeland, 4290 Arrowhead Drive, said that he thought the Met council had agreed to a less
dense proposal.
J. Doty said that the application the city sent to the Met council was all single family.
Elizabeth Weir said at a previous meeting the Met council had given their verbal approval based
on the potential for Uptown Hamel.
B. Freeland asked when the developer came back with a plan for all single family.
J. Doty said that plan has not had a public hearing. He also stated that the city council approved
a comprehensive plan amendment, not a development plan.
E. Weir mentioned the court case between Lake Elmo and the Met council.
Bill Loe said that it is not over yet.
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Karen Eide, 1555 Hackamore Road, wanted to know what was presented to the Met council.
J. Doty said a plan for 106 single family units.
MOVED BY MARY VERBICK AND SECONDED BY MARILYN FORTIN TO TABLE THE
CHARLES CUDD APPLICATON PER STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION.
MOTION PASSED
3. JOE AND LARK AHLSTROM — 4629 BROOK STREET — VARIANCE
REQUEST — PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM JULY
Josh Doty went over his memo to the planning commission and put up an overhead with the
proposed new home. Josh said he did go out and measure the setbacks for the two neighboring
homes and the requested setbacks are consistent with these. The requested setbacks for this
proposal are 1) 8' east side where 10' is required, 2) 8' west side setback where 10' is required,
3) 19' north front yard setback where 30' is required and 4) a variance to allow construction of a
single family home on a non -conforming lot.
MOVED BY MARY VERBICK AND SECONDED BY LENNY LEUER TO RECOMMEND
APPROVAL OF THE VARIANCES FOR SETBACKS: 2' VARIANCE ON THE EAST AND
WEST SIDES AND A 11' FRONT SETBACK ON THE NORTH SIDE WITH HARDSHIPS
AS NOTED BY STAFF AS REFERENCED IN THE STAFF REPORT.
MOTION PASSED.
MOVED BY MARY VERBICK AND SECONDED BY LENNY LEUER TO RECOMMEND
APPROVAL OF THE VARIANCE TO BUILD ON A NON -CONFORMING LOT WITH
HARDSHIPS AS NOTED BY STAFF AS REFERENCED IN THE STAFF REPORT.
MOTION PASSED.
4. DEAN JOHNSON —1255 WILLOW DRIVE — RE -ZONING AND SUBDIVISION —
CONTINUED FROM APRIL MEETING — PUBLIC HEARING
Josh Doty noted a letter received from a Medina Morningside resident and stated it was an
official part of the public record. He went over the request and stated there were two parts to the
application; 1) Re -zoning from Rural Residential to Suburban Residential and 2) Preliminary plat
for 21 single family lots with the existing home to remain. Josh stated that the public hearing
was back in April and was tabled until some revisions could be made to the application based on
some of the concerns of the planning commission. The concerns include: 1) amount of wetlands,
2) drainage on the SW and NE corners and 3) preservation of trees in the NE corner.
J. Doty said the 1st change was the wetlands. He said that the amount of wetlands had been re-
evaluated and where initially there were 3 identified, I of those was created by the property
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owner and according to state law that one can have an exemption. Josh pointed out the other 2
wetlands on the overhead. He stated that they are both required to be protected and homes are
shown on them on the proposed plans, so therefore they must be mitigated at a 2 to 1 ratio if
filled in. Josh stated this will be a condition prior to final plat.
J. Doty then addressed #2 — drainage. He put up a grading plan that had been revised. In the SE
corner there is a drainage swale that goes to a storm water retention pond and this does comply.
In the NE corner there is a new drainage plan. A pipe will collect storm water along the north
line and there also will be a rain garden. It eventually will drain into the retention pond. He said
there is a storm water drainage pond. Treatment and capacity that was in the plans would not
meet city requirements and it has been revised deeper to 8'. By making it deeper a retaining wall
would need to be constructed around the pond.
J. Doty addressed #3 — tree preservation. He said where the construction limit line was shown
there would be the possibility of trees dying due to the grading. Staff recommends a condition
be looked at this evening to preserve trees. He then stated that staff recommends approval with
the conditions as listed.
Don Hedtke, 2515 Morningside Road, said the trees on the north side of the rain garden are 5
large maple trees. He requested that they be left and pointed out where they were.
Elizabeth Weir said they will ask Mr. Johnson to consider those trees.
Vickie Semsch, 2625 Morningside Road, asked if the pine trees behind her would be protected.
Mrs. Brian Budeslich, 2465 Morningside, was also concerned about the trees.
J. Doty said there is a thick alley of trees in the area and many are close to the lot line.
Mrs. Budeslich asked about the sewer pipe.
J. Doty said the storm sewer pipe is proposed with the catch basin
Bill Reed, 2732 Morningside Road, said there is the street issue with Elsinore on the west.
E. Weir said it is a safety reason to have 2 entrances.
B. Reed said it is his understanding that Morningside is too narrow to be a thru street. He said it
is a safety issue with the street clogging up due to increased traffic.
E. Weir said most of the traffic from the new development will come off the new road
from Willow.
B. Reed said that Bobolink intersects with Morningside and he has concerns with the narrow
street.
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Dennis Anderson, 1365 Maplewood Drive, said he is concerned with the safety and isn't the City
concerned with our safety. We in Medina Morningside only have one exit. He said he does not
understand and he also thinks there will be more traffic.
E. Weir said that safety standards have been improved.
D. Anderson said if so, things should have been changed for us.
D. Hedtke wanted to know how it would work being hooked up to both Medina and Orono water
systems.
Scott Turner, 1285 Maplewood Drive, said he does not see any provisions for bike trails. He
said there are kids all over the neighborhood and with the traffic from the church on Willow we
can't get out to Willow Drive on a bike. He said it is not a quiet neighborhood anymore.
Dean Johnson, developer, said if we need to adjust the grading line to save some trees we will.
He said we want trees also. As for the traffic on Morningside, he said it will be a quicker route
for the new homes to use the road in their development.
D. Johnson said he does not know what the trail plan is. He said he lived in Maple Grove and
they widened the streets and put the path on one side. He said they have some issues with the
water issue and will discuss it at the city council meeting. He said they did not want to hook up
to Orono water, but this is best left to the engineers.
Ron Johnson said it is good to save trees. He asked Mr. Johnson if they would do an inventory
of the trees and work with the neighbors and Mr. Johnson said yes.
E. Weir said it would just take a jag in the construction limit line to save the trees. She also
asked if they would be able to save the 5 silver maples behind Mr. Hedtke by the rain garden.
D. Johnson said he believed they could, they can shift the rain garden.
Marilyn Fortin said she is concerned with the wetlands. She wanted to know how they would
replace them.
D. Johnson said they have been talking with staff about mitigating and/or buying credits
elsewhere in the city. He said maybe there was a place they could mitigate on the site. He said
they know this will be a condition of approval and their 1st choice would be to mitigate on site.
M. Fortin wanted to know how you could have a rain garden next to trees.
D. Johnson said a rain garden does not have water in it all the time. We can build it to fit in with
the trees.
E. Weir said she had talked to Josh about closing off Elsinore (east) and the curb. She said that
would take a lot of water flow away. She said a rain garden is still helpful and she would love to
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see the trees preserved. She also said that Jim Dillman thought closing off Elsinore (east) would
be possible.
Mary Verbick asked about wetland setbacks and Josh told her there were none.
J. Doty said staff would recommend a buffer zone around the wetlands.
M. Verbick asked Mr. Johnson if he had someone on staff that works with wetlands.
D. Johnson said they had sent someone out to the site to stake out the wetlands and then John
Smyth from Bonestroo also checked them.
Lenny Leuer asked about page 3 of the application where it says something about the city paying
to mitigate.
J. Doty said there is a disagreement with staff and the developer. Staff has prepared a condition
that the developer do the mitigation prior to final approval. He said the city attorney was looking
at an agreement made between the city and Mr. Keller. Josh pointed out on the overhead which
wetland they were talking about.
L. Leuer wanted to know if the watershed had reviewed the wetland delineation.
J. Doty said the watershed had been sent copies of the plans and will submit comments after
preliminary approval.
L. Leuer said in his experience the watershed and a paid consultant disagree. He said he is
uncomfortable sending this forward with the lots possibly having to be changed. He wanted to
know if we (the planning commission) could suggest that if the # of lots change due to the
wetlands that the proposal come back to the planning commission.
J. Doty said yes.
L. Leuer is there a proposed outlet structure for the storm water. He asked to see where the
outlet was on the overhead.
J. Doty pointed out where the outlet structure was shown.
L. Leuer asked if it would be appropriate to fence the retaining wall because of the depth of the
pond.
J. Doty said that is usually required after a 4' retaining wall and this will be 3'.
L. Leuer said but this is a retaining wall with water.
J. Doty said they could possibly tweak the pond design to have more dry land before the water.
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John Willegalla, 1295 Elsinore Circle, wanted to know where the ponds would drain.
J. Doty showed on the overhead where it would drain. He said the intent is the pond will retain
all of the storm water under normal conditions.
L. Leuer said he assumed all the basements would have sump pumps and wanted to know where
they would drain. He wondered if a foot drainage system had been thought of
J. Doty said the plans have been revised to address that situation in the SE and NW corners of the
development.
B. Reed said what Lenny says reminds him of what happened years ago when the sewer was put
in Medina Morningside. He said shouldn't they have to put in a storm water system.
D. Johnson said the site is wet and the plan is to put in 6" corrugated pipe and bury it along with
the sanitary sewer for the footing drains and bring a stub into the basement for the sump pump.
He said they will do some test holes.
L. Leuer said that sounds very good. He said the comprehensive plan talks about parks, trails
and open space and it does show a trail on Willow Drive and he wondered where the easement
was on this development.
J. Doty said there is none proposed at this time.
Chad Adams said the plan does show a trail on Willow Drive on the east side in the next 10-15
years, going from County Road 24 to County Road 6.
S. Turner said that is too long, it needs to be done now.
C. Adams said that the trail study was approved before this development came in and maybe this
could speed it up. He said that the Medina Morningside connection to Orono was looked at for
1-5 years.
S. Turner said it didn't make sense to have the trail on the east side when the houses were on the
west side.
E. Weir agreed. I think we should look at the west side.
D. Johnson said in looking at the water line there are a lot of trees and that might have been the
reason for the trail on the east side.
C. Adams said there are utility easements on the west side of Willow, so the east side was a
better side for a trail.
L. Leuer asked about the discussion of upgrading the intersection of 6 & Willow.
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J. Doty said that Orono, as part of supplying sewer and water, is requiring the developer to
contribute to the improvements. We have added a condition of approval that the Orono
conditions be met.
L. Leuer asked if we knew if the intersection improvements will come back to the Medina line.
Josh and Chad said that was not their understanding, that the improvements would strictly be the
intersection.
L. Leuer asked about monuments.
Steve Bohl, Hickory Fine Homes, said maybe boulders. He said the entrance would be primarily
landscaping.
M. Verbick said the City is interested in updating the trails and she feels it is appropriate to look
at this area now.
E. Weir said back to the questions whether we should require a trail easement now.
L. Leuer said the trail should be entirely frontage.
Ron Johnson said that seems reasonable and the developer seems encouraged for the trail plans.
D. Johnson said the trail is not negative to the project and he also said that Mr. Keller plans on
keeping their home.
C. Adams said we usually take a 15' easement for a 10' trail.
E. Weir said that in the SW corner of Keller's property there is an amazing amount of junk and
this is part of the subdivision and it needs to be cleaned up. She said it is to the developer's
advantage to have it cleaned up and she would like to make it a further condition for approval.
Dick Picard asked if there was any near by comparable developments.
D. Johnson said none of his, but Steve Bohl will be the builder for this development.
S. Bohl said Providence by the Lake in the City of Independence would be similar although they
are on larger lots.
D. Picard asked what the home values would be.
S. Bohl said $700-$900,000.
B. Reed said we got a letter few months back about our water tying in with Orono's. He said 15
years ago the city wanted to hook into Long Lake. Bill said we pay the city to take care of `our'
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wells — we own them. What happens if we get more homes in the system, if we have problems,
do they help pay for it.
L. Leuer said that this body (planning commission) does not deal with that, the city council will.
J. Doty said Jim Dillman has reviewed this thoroughly and there shouldn't be any negative
impacts on either pressure or quality of water. He said to ask Jim if there are any questions.
D. Picard asked Josh to put the overhead back up — he then asked why Lot 4 did not have access
to Elsinore Circle.
J. Doty said there is no proposal for a road there.
E. Weir said there is a consideration to abandon that part of Elsinore.
D. Picard wanted to know where the road shown in the SW corner goes.
J. Doty said it is for possible future connection to the three properties to the west.
D. Picard asked about the lift station, the cables, etc. that are there.
J. Doty said they will remain.
D. Johnson said there will be landscaping around it.
D. Picard said he thinks there is a safety factor with an 8' deep pond, there will be lots of homes
by it.
V. Semsch asked why the City would want to extend one part of Elsinore and not the other.
J. Doty said from a planning perspective it is not ideal for the new road, which is quite long, to
end in a cul de sac.
S. Turner said if just fire/safety is a concern; can't there be a chain, etc. so all the cars can't get
thru?
D. Picard said with the trees and the new homes, it will be a challenge to save trees. He
wondered what the timeline was.
D. Johnson said he figures it could start next spring with 2-2 1/2 years to have all the homes built.
M. Verbick wanted to know if the rain garden, storm water retention pond and the large wetland
were part of private property and she was told yes. She wondered if there would be a
homeowners association.
S. Bohl said no.
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M. Verbick wanted to then know who would be responsible to maintain the rain garden, the
buffer zone around the wetland.
S. Bohl said typically there are drainage easements and also the watershed usually has
restrictions.
Bill Loe said he wakes up and feels blessed that he has trees. He encouraged the developer not
to compromise your trees.
D. Hedtke asked if there were any requirements for when a silt fence needs to be removed after a
project.
J. Doty said there will be a development agreement that will deal with that.
S. Turner said he appreciates the concern about the trees and the wetlands. He said he hopes the
planning commission does not forget about the residents, the kids, etc. He said his main concern
is being landlocked with no trails.
MOVED BY RON JOHNSON AND SECONDED BY MARILYN FORTIN TO
RECOMMEND REZONING THE KELLER PROPERTY FROM RURAL RESIDENTIAL TO
SUBURBAN RESIDENTIAL
MOTION PASSED.
MOVED BY MARY VERBICK AND SECONDED BY MARILYN FORTIN TO
RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR 21 LOTS WITH THE
FOLLOWING CONDITIONS:
1. Prior to Preliminary Plat approval, the applicant must amend their plans for storm water
to meet all City requirements for both water quality and quantity.
2. As part of the Final Plat application, the applicant shall submit proof that the 7,291
square foot wetland on the westerly side of the property and the 7,153 square foot
wetland on Lots 2 and 3, Block 1 have been mitigated or credits purchased in compliance
with the wetland conservation act.
3. Prior to Final Plat approval, the applicant shall submit plans in compliance with all
requirements of the City Engineer.
4. Prior to Final Plat approval, the applicant shall submit a letter from the City of Orono
stating that all requirements of the City of Orono have been met by the applicant and that
Orono agrees to provide sewer and water to the development.
5. Prior to Final Plat approval, the applicant shall submit a landscape plan that provides two,
two and one half inch trees to be planted in the front yard of each new lot in the
subdivision.
6. Prior to Final Plat approval, all conditions of the watershed district shall be met.
7. Prior to Final Plat approval, the applicant shall submit a proposed plan for the rain garden
including all plantings proposed.
8. Prior to any site work, a sign shall be installed directing construction traffic to use road
access off Willow Drive to the subject property. A second sign shall be installed at the
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corner of Willow Drive and Morningside Road that directs construction traffic to the
main access to property from Willow Drive.
9. All construction limit lines to be adjusted to consider and accommodate significant trees.
A significant tree inventory is to be submitted.
10. Trash in the SW corner of Lot 1 to be removed west of the mowed area.
11. If the number of lots has to be adjusted due to wetlands, this application is to come back
to the Planning Commission for review.
12. Due to the depth of the NURP pond, there is to be a fence on top of the retaining wall.
13. The question of an easement for a trail along Willow is to be deferred to the Park
Commission with the recommendation that the trail be on the west side of Willow.
14. There is to be a 5' non -mowed buffer around the wetlands
15. There is to be a sump pump drainage system, approved by the city, for all homes in the
development.
16. Any monuments to meet the city's sign ordinance.
MOTION PASSED.
6. THREE RIVERS PARK DISTRICT — CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR
SHOWER BUILDING — BAKER PARK MAIN CAMPGROUNG — PUBLIC
HEARING
Josh Doty went over his memo to the planning commission and put up an overhead of the area.
He stated that this was an expansion of the current shower building plus a number of site
improvements. He showed an overhead of the proposed improvements which include relocating
a trail, the concrete area around the building, relocating some curb and a drinking fountain.
Jason Zemke, Three Rivers Park District, said they are not expanding the parking lot. He stated
that this was a direct replacement, adding fixtures, sinks, and lavatories and 2 handicapped
shower rooms which include a lavatory, sink, etc.
J. Doty said that the park does have a well for water and does not have city water.
Mary Verbick said it looks like a greatly improved facility.
J. Zemke said we are also putting a stub out there in case in the future we can get city water.
There was discussion of losing a tree due to construction of the new water line.
Dick Picard asked if the current building does not comply with requirements what does it meet.
J. Zemke said since they are adding on to the building it must comply with handicap
requirements which it currently does not.
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D. Picard asked if the use of the facility was just used for V2 a year and Jason said yes.
D. Picard asked if the building was air conditioned and heated and Jason said yes.
Lenny Leuer asked about a dumpster.
J. Zemke pointed out on the overhead where it was located and where it would be in the future.
L. Leuer said there is an existing well, is there anything else that is existing.
J. Zemke said there are other shower buildings.
MOVED BY DICK PICARD AND SECONDED BY MARY VERBICK TO RECOMMEND
APPROVAL OF A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A SHOWER BUILDING
EXPANSION AT THE BAKER PARK CAMPGROUND FOR THREE RIVERS PARK
DISTRICT WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITION: THE APPLICANT SHALL SUBMIT A
LIGHTING PLAN TO BE REVIEWED FOR COMPLIANCE WITH THE ZONING
ORDINANCE REQUIREMENTS.
MOTION PASSED.
7. PUBLIC HEARING FOR UPDATE TO THE FLOODPLAIN ORDINANCE —
PUBLIC HEARING
Josh Doty explained the reason for needing the update to the ordinance and also stated there was
a timeline to adopt the new ordinance to stay in the floodplain program.
Lenny Leuer asked if the new ordinance changed the flood plain maps.
J. Doty said yes and also said that where there used to be 4 panels to the Medina floodplain map,
there would now 15.
MOVED BY RON JOHNSON AND SECONDED BY BILL LOE TO RECOMMEND
APPROVAL OF THE UPDATED FLOODPLAIN ORDINANCE.
MOTION PASSED.
THE RECOMMENDATION ALSO WAS TO HAVE MAP 2-4 IN THE COMPREHENSIVE
PLAN UPDATED AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
8. MINUTES OF JULY 13, 2004
There were grammatical errors corrected.
MOVED BY DICK PICARD AND SECONDED BY MARY VERBICK TO ACCEPT THE
MINUTES AS CORRECTED.
MOTION PASSED.
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9. PLANNER'S REPORT
Josh brought the planning commission up to date concerning Gramercy and the height of their
building. He stated that quite a bit of study was done on what was approved and how we got to
where we are today. Josh said there had been an on -site meeting with the developer and then
they came to the last council meeting with a proposal. He said a large amount of landscaping is
planned and that city councilor Randy Brinkman would be working with the developer to solve
the problem.
Josh said there were no formal applications for the September meeting, although there were a
few possibilities. We expect to see the Target submission in the next few days, so they may
possibly be on the September agenda. He stated that we had not heard from Farr recently. Josh
also stated that Walter G. Anderson could possibly be in with a proposed building addition, also
a 12 rural lot subdivision and maybe a concept plan for property on Hamel Road.
There was discussion of the Metropolitan council.
MOVED BY MARY VERBICK AND SECONDED BY MARILYN FORTIN TO ADJOURN.
MOTION PASSED.
Meeting adjourned at 10 p.m.
Planning and Zoning Assistant Date
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