HomeMy Public PortalAbout1997/01/21
An Informal Meeting was held by the Mayor and Council of the
Borough ofCarteret on January 21,1997, 7:00 P.M., Council Office,
Municipal Building, 61 Cooke Avenue, Carteret, New Jersey.
The following were noted present:
Mayor Peter 1 Sica
Councilmember Bialowarczuk
" DuPont
" F ailace
" Fazekas
" Gutowski
Noted absent was Councilmember Feingold.
AJso noted present were John Wanskus, Sean Regan, Esq., tr. fumrc
and Ralph DeFrancesco.
Mailed to The Home News & Tribune, The Star Ledger and posted
on the bulletin board on January 17, 1997.
Discuss Library Project.
Mayor Sica asked ifMr Wanskus was present.
Mr Wanskus said he was
Mayor Sica told Mr. Wanskus they were here about when they were
going to receive a certified copy of drawings that our Engineer feels
we can go out to bid on.
Sean Regan Esq. told Mayor Sica that John Wanskus was there and
he has a lot of materials to show them. He thinks they are at a stage
where they are ready to do that. Mr Parmar and Mr. De Francesco
have........
Mayor Sica intermpted asking if they were present.
The Clerk said they were.
Mayor Sica said to cal1 them in there.
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I.NFOlli'1AL MEEITNG
January 27, 1997
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Attorney Regan continued saying they have made pertinent to the
problem that originated with the Engineer that is subcontracted to
do some engineering work. It appears at this time that with the replies
of his representatives returning tomorrow, as to his intention of
completing the engineering work John had given him to do, he hasn't
replied to us with regard to that. He said they have here a rendention,
in fact it is all the architectural drawings and plans that have been
sealed and looked at by Mr. DeFrancesco He believes he even may
have signed you up on those and John would like to walk you
through, possibly where we started with this project and what we have
right now. We do have a bit of a problem at this point with the
engineer. We won't know until tomOlTOW what his intent is on
completing his work.
Attorney Hedesh told Attorney Regan, rrom the Council's
standpoint his problem with the engineer is his problem
Attorney Regan said he understood that.
Attorney Hedesh said they made a point they are not dealing with the
engineer, not talking to the engineer. He has asked for drawings and
he told him that as long as there is a potential litigation he is going to
get them through whatever source he wants, so his problem with the
engineer is not an excuse at this point.
Attorney Regan said they are not looking to make an excuse.
Attorney Hedesh said we have a letter from our Borough Attorney
saying that there is no Engineering Plans and missing Architectural
Drawings and that Mr. Wanskus has objected to his review of the
drawings. Now if that is the case we cannot go anywhere because he
is our representative, he is our expert. We are going to rely on the
Borough Attorney and the Construction Official to do those reviews.
Attorney Regan said he hadn't seen the letter so he is not sure, but he
doesn't think that John has objected to anybody reviewing the
drawings because as we know he has sat down for several weeks at a
time, with individuals from the Borough, going over numerous
changes and details that they wanted included or excluded., numerous
details that have to be added, terms of a different room, a different
type of facility that was originally presented in the models, in the
plans that were presented in May. He has worked closely with all
these people.
Attorney Hedesh asked if he is stipulating now if his client has no
objection to Mr. Parmar reviewing the plans.
Attorney Regan said it was his understanding that Mr. Parmar and
Mr. DeFrancesco already reviewed all these plans right here. Now
there is a type of architectural work that needs some information from
the Engineer. A very minor item, but the information, some
calculations have to be done by a licensed engineer.
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Mayor Sica asked Ralph De Francesco if he looked at this set of
drawings.
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Ralph said no, that he never had the complete set.
Mayor Sica said Mr. Regan just told him you looked at them and
they were okay.
Ralph said they went over it in about two (2) minutes.
Mr. Regan told Ralph on Friday the 17th that is what they looked at.
He showed Ralph the set of drawings he was referring to and asked
him ifhe had looked at them and if he had a set.
Ralph answered no.
Mayor Sica said this is his problem. He is hearing here that we have
a copy of these drawings and from Ralph he is hearing that we don't
have a copy ofthese drawings. He questioned us either having or not
having a copy.
Mr. Wanskus said he can explain that. What we have in the Borough
right now is a set of drawings that was given to Mr. Parmar dated
January 7th. These drawings are dated January 9th, which were
released to his Engineer. Mr. Saperstein dating January 9th and he
didn't receive them until January 14th at the meeting. The drawings
that are in rront of us on this table are synonymous with the drawings
that Mr. Parmar has on the 7th, with the exception of about eight (8)
sheets which were revised.
Attorney Regan asked if they were revised as a result of the sessions
on the 7th.
Mr. Wanskus said they are revised as a result of the letter he has
received from his engineer on December 3rd, the meetings that we
had on November 25th and the meeting that we had in this room
December 9th. Those three (3) are what parcipitated the drawings to
be revised. He did complete those revisions and the set in front of us
is a completed architectural set. Eighty five (85) architectural
drawings and a completed Specification Booklet, which is about
eleven hundred pages. Mr. Parmar does have a copy of it. This is what
was discussed with Mr. Parmar. There was about eight (8) or nine (9)
pages in this booklet which was originally submitted to the Mayor's
Office on May 22nd.
Mayor Sica said he had that.
Mr. Wanskus referred to another set that was rolled up is a set of the
Engineering drawings which are dated 5/22/96. This was the set that
was delivered to the town as a completed package along with the bid
spec booklet. This set of engineering drawings has to be revised by
his consultant ......
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Mayor Sica interrupted saying they have to meet those January 9th
drawings.
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Mr. Regan asked what happened in May until this particular set of
drawings right here that parcipitated the need for changes in the
engineering. He asked Mr. Wanskus if he met with Mr. Parmar and
Mr DeFrancesco (inaudible) bid the drawings that were submitted on
May 22nd.
Mr. Wanskus said yes.
Mr. Regan asked him when that occurred. Ifit was in June or July of
1996.
Mr. Wanskus said he worked in the Borough Hall in July and August.
Attorney Hedesh told Attorney Regan they were speeding through
and they have speeded through too many times.
Mayor Sica told John what he understood was he had a January 9th
set of architectural drawings..... it could change a light bulb here. He
is not worried about that kind of stuff, and either is anyone else, but
he is telling him that his engineering drawings go back to May 22,
1996. They have to be brought up to snuff with the ..........when is that
going to take place.
Mr. Wanskus said the engineer has completed after May 22nd, when
he submitted these drawings to the town. He stated to Mr. De
Francesco, Mr. Parmar and this office on November 25th at a meeting
here, that he completed the punchlist items that were received in May
by his engineer. May 16 and 17th, an approximate of four (4)
subcodes reviewed the architectural and the engineering drawings.
The items that are left to do on this set of plans are the revisions
which took place in the summer time at the request of the Library
Board and the revisions he has no listing because he has a letter that
he wrote to the engineer.
Attorney Regan told Mr. Wanskus to explain to the Mayor and
Council and everyone what those changes were that occurred during
the summer, that you worked on a day to day basis with Mr. De
Francesco in order to perfect these changes in their desire to change
the facilities, etc.
Mr. Wanskus said the drawings were in May 22nd and the Library
wanted additional changes. The changes that he did that are on the set
of drawings and everybody approved them. He then read the changes.
Councilmember DuPont said that Mr. Wanskus had said these plans
were approved. He told Parmar and Ralph that these plans were
complete thoughts as far as they were concerned.
Mr. Parmar said he didn't have these plans.
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Councilmember DuPont said that Mr. Parmar never reviewed them
Mayor Sica interrupted saying they would go all through all that in
just a minute. He then said they did these changes. Everything is
done. It has to be put on the engineering. He then asked when that
would occur and how long would it take because if it doesn't occur
within the next two weeks or one if he gets mad he is going to take
the sets of drawings and contact an architect to finish his work and
they will subtract from whatever they owe him. He said right now as
far as he is concerned we got more than we paid so we are ahead of
the game.
Attorney Regan said as tàr as the engineers intent is on completing his
work........ .at this point he has had his attorney contact him. He spoke
with him three (3) times within the past three (3) days and asked for
the information specifically when he would be completed. He is
going to complete it. Tomorrow moming he is hoping to know, if not,
they will find somebody to complete it.
Mayor Sica commented that is exactly what he was going to tell him.
Attorney Regan told the Mayor that is exactly what he was going to
do that. That is the right thing.
Mayor Sica said if this engineer doesn't complete the work he is
directing him to go get somebody else to do it......
Attorney Hedesh interrupted him saying he was tel1ing him
Mayor Sica then said he can't tell him what to do, but what he is
saying is this is the only person that can sign the checks. That isn't
going to happen. He will not sign until he gets a completed set of
drawings, architecturally and engineering wise that he can go out and
bid and it has to be done in the near future and he wants a time and
date right now and if that date is not met he will take the drawings
that we have and fonn it out ourselves and complete it.
Attorney Regan said the promise of the changes caused some
engineering that had to be redone. It was structural work that had to
be recalculated and unfortunately even though Mr. Wanskus worked
closely with Mr. DeFrancesco to effectuate the changes the engineer
did not get involved in that case. He did not work on a day to day
timely basis to try and move the thing along. Now we are stuck with
having to either perform this week or get someone else to step in.
Mayor Sica said rrom what he understands the engineering work that
has to be done, the calculations is not a monumental task. It is
peanuts in comparison to the whole project.
Councilmember Fazekas asked if that was on the new set or this set.
Mayor Sica said on that set.
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Attorney Regan said it is a working project. Even when we go to bid
it is a working project.
Councilmember Fazekas said it has been changing over six (6) or
seven (7) months.
Mayor Sica said that is irrelevant. There can be no more changes at
this point.
Councilmember Fazekas said there was substantial input.
Mayor Sica told Councilmember Fazekas that he doesn't understand
what he is saying.
Councilmember Fazekas said he knows it but he guesses he is just a
little tired of waiting.
Mayor Sica said there can be no more changes. The changes have
ended It is only a matter of coordinating what they have in the two
(2) sets of drawings. He asked John if that was correct.
John said the engineer can't do his work as far as he understands. He
asked how long has he had the newest revised set of architectural
plans.
Attorney Hedesh said January 14th. From May 22, 1996 to January
14th he has had nothing put into the changes.
John Wanskus said he was misunderstanding the changes that were
made. They were made over a course of time. Over a three (3) month
period.
Councilmember Bialowarczuk asked if we got those changes one at
a time or did we hold on to them and hitting them with all of them one
at a time.
Attorney Regan said he was updating routinely with what was going
on. Whether or not he put it in pen and paper and tried to figure it
out.......
Councilmember Bialowarczuk said that is what she wanted to know.
Attorney Regan said because it is not that simple to say they are
moving a wall here and a support beam here, you have to do a
calculation and change the mind. Your mind had been set.
Councilmember Bialowarczuk said there were how many different
meetings he rattled ofl:' before that they had in there while there were
changes being made. She questioned if the changes being made at that
time given to the engineer to make those changes or did we wait until
now to give then all.
John Wanskus said they waited until now to give them all.
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John Wanskus said the engineer wants all the revisions done.......
Attorney Regan interrupted saying actuaIly in October he was given
a majority of the changes.
John Wankus said the engineer was alerted to the revisions starting
with his letter which was received........
Mayor Sica interrupted saying to John that sometimes they can't just
go in and say they are going to move the wall and next week
something else. In the majority of times you want to have the bulk of
what you are going to do otherwise you are going to do the
calculations on there so when you change another thing tomorrow
this calculus isn't worth nothing. So he could understand in October
giving him a substantial amount of changes for hin to work on because
then if you are going to change a wall over here it is not going to have
an effect on the waIl on the other side of the building. He said that is
all water under the dam. His question is when he is going to get a
finished product because spring is coming and he wants to break
ground for this Library and Senior Citizen Center.
Attorney Regan want to have this project out to bid within the next
couple of weeks. He said Mr Saperstein may have already completed
his work and maybe that is why he is not here tonight.
Mayor Sica said he thinks it is imperative that he, and he is not telling
him how to do his business because he is a lawyer, send him a Time
of the Essence Letter that ifhe doesn't respond to him within a day or
two then he will void his contmct and have his work completed by
someone else. He doesn't care if he is fighting with Saperstein or
anyone else he wants a finished product.
Attorney Regan said he thinks that your Honor and the rest of the
Council wiIl appreciate that when the architectural work was being
done and then in May they had a pretty good concept together and
had all the engineering work done and there are some changes from
that concept, at that point you are talking the projects in terms of the
design phase and the conceptual things that you want to incorporate
into design is about 80% complete and to then turn around and say
that we have to go and get new engineers and start over again We
didn't want to have to do that.
Attorney Hedesh said nobody knows if they are 80% complete
because you have a set of plans that Mr. De Francesco said he looked
at two (2) minutes. He got a memo here from the engineer that says
Engineering, Architectural Plans. There is nothing 80% complete
until we say it is 80% complete. You may say it is 80% complete but
we don't know that and it has never been 80% complete.
Attorney Regan said if he wants to talk in those specifics he is trying
to give an example of why they don't want to start with a brand new
engineer because the Borough.
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Attorney Hedesh said the Borough wants a date, tell him with
everybody sitting here a date that we will have engineering plans,
architecture plans that the Borough and Council could say he
authorized the Clerk to advertise for bids.
Mayor Sica said two (2) things are going to happen here tonight, that
he will ask this Council that if they accept the date that he gives us and
if they pass a resolution that if that date is not made that he has the
authority by Council to take the whole project away rrom you, have
it completed and build the thing. He asked Attorney Regan to give hin
a date.
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Councilmember Regan said it would be very difficult to give him a
specific date.
Mayor Sica said then he will set it and he will ask the Council for the
resolution anyway.
Attorney Regan said maybe under his contract he has the prerogative
to do that.
Mayor Sica said he does.
Attorney Regan said there were times also when communications
were made saying not to make changes, to make changes, but we
went ahead and (inaudible), made the changes. At this point he will
have the engineering with the current subcontractors up tomorrow
morning or he will have them terminate somebody and find somebody
else that will step in .....
Mayor Sica said he is telling mm today is Tuesday. You set a date that
if you don't have your engineer working on it by lets say Friday, he is
out.
Attorney Regan said he will have somebody working on it tomorrow.
Mayor Sica said if his engineer is not going to be working on it until
Friday then you, by your own saying, will take two (2) weeks to get
another engineer to do the whole complete thing. He asked him to
give him a date.
Attorney Regan by Friday and ............
Mayor Sica said he could have his kid working on this by tomorrow
but that doesn't tell him when it will get finished.
Attorney Hedesh told John that he could have an engineer working on
it by tomorrow.
John Wanskus said that was immaterial. He is saying that Parmar has
to see this. We should give it to our engineer and let him look at it to
finish it.
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Mayor Sica said he is not going to be looking at a finished product.
John said this is it, as far as it goes.
Mayor Sica said no, the architectural drawing he doesn't have
anything to do with that. He referred to the engineering part, the
calculations. He went on to say the architectural drawings cannot be
verified until the engineering drawings are completed. He asked if he
was correct.
John agreed.
Mayor Sica said so what he is saying here today is he wants a finished
work product by a certain date. He told them to give him that date.
Attorney Regan said if Mr. Saperstein is not going to complete the
work as represented as they think he is going to complete it then
tomorrow we have to find another engineer to keep working on it and
ask that individual...........
Attorney Hedesh said we can't be responsible because you are in a
battle with yourself.
Attorney Regan said he wo't negotiate a contractual term in a Council
Meeting.
Mayor Sica said they have been more than liberal letting dates slip. If
you told him that you are going to have the thing done on the 21st of
February and then you called and said you wouldn't have it until the
22nd or 23rd, he wouldn't argue about that. He said is setting a date
here today and that is the date that he is going to stick with.
John said to correct him if he is wrong but contractually the architect
is to supply the engineering and everything else...
Mayor Sica said one has to work with the other.
John asked if last Mayor or June he set a date originally that this was
supposed to done and . .
Mayor Sica interrupted saying that they have made the changes.
John said the Borough has basically given the last eight (8) months of
leeway.
Mayor Sica said they made the changes inbetween that, that is the
probJem. We have a basic set of drawings and he said okay this is it
guys and now all we have to do is the engineering and that is what we
wanted, but now every time we move a wall there is a major problem
or a bathroom or eliminate a sink, etc. He commented that is neither
here nor there. He wants a date.
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Attorney Hedesh said the issue is how long those changes were done,
when they met through our representatives and why it is taking from
8/8 until today. . .
John said whatever the circumstances we have set a date prior to this
date that the Mayor is going to ask for tonight.
Mayor Sica said we got that date and then it was changed.
Attorney Regan said this is how the project started, the Mayor and
Mr. Wanskus met and they drew up an idea and the Mayor put it
down and this is where we are at. We are here with sealed and
architectural drawings which have three minimal changes rrom the day
that Mr. De Francesco last looked at them and they were some minor
items that John had to correct. So now we go rrom this to this and the
last thing that needs to be done is there needs to be some revisions in
here to (inaudible) the changes they were done over the summer and
into the fall that already put the paper here. Until we get the engineer
to incorporate that and seal this drawing it is not complete. He said
tomorrow morning this attorney does not represent somebody that is
going to complete it they will have somebody else complete the work.
John said he knows everybody wants the date and everybody wants to
go to bid no more than him because he is the one that did all this
work. He said he did the job to the best of his ability. If he was an
engineer he would do the engineering but he is not.
Attorney Regan said the Mayor already indicated what he wanted in
terms of the date and he is going to give us a date.
Mayor Sica asked what if he gave a date by Friday.
John agreed with that date.
Mayor Sica said if the date they give him by Friday is not met he
wants someone to make a resolution giving him the authority to just
take the job away rrom them and get it completed anyway they can get
it completed. He said he wants a full set of those architectural
drawings here tomorrow and he wants a copy of those engineering
drawings here tomorrow in the City Hall.
Attorney Regan told him these he already has.
Mayor Sica said then he wants a set of the architectural drawings.
Then if they don't make the date they wil1 get somebody to finish the
project. He asked if everyone here was in agreement to that.
Attorney Hedesh told him it doesn't matter what date he gives to the
Borough on Friday it wil1 be agreeable to the Borough.
He told the Council he would give each and everyone that isn't there
a call to tell them the time and gate.
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John Wanskus gave the Governing Body smaller reproductions of the
Architectural Package.
Mayor Sica said in defense ofWanskus, everybody raves about the
Sports Building, He thinks this will be even a better project than that.
Attorney said just to clarify the record to Council, Mr. Wanskus had
designed the Sports Building,
Mayor Sica told them he knew that.
At 7:43 p.m., a motion to adjourn was made by Councilmember
Failace and second by Councilmember Fazekas.
Then Mayor Sica said before they adjourned he wanted to talk to
everybody about that road
At 7:44 p.m .a motion to open the meeting was made by
Councilmember Bialowarczuk and second by Councilmember Failace.
Mayor Sica then mentioned the letter he got today from McGreevey
saying that he wanted to contact us about our January 10, 1997 letter
which was received today regarding the Industrial Bypass Road. He
then commented that we sent it out on the 10th and they are saying
they didn't get it until the 16th. He commented that he didn't think
that was true He said for us to be aware that they were unaware and
surprised that Carteret has attempted to arrange a meeting. He said
he arranged Marge from his office to contact them tomorrow to
arrange a joint meeting. Mayor Sica said he set up the meeting to be
at Woodbridge. He said it is his feeling that we should have as many
of the Councilpeople we have. He told the Council he would let then
know what time they set it up
Councilmember DuPont asked about the Industrial Road in reference
to Phase 3 by the Turnpike
Mayor Sica said there was never a phase to hook up by the Turnpike.
There was a phase to du the third section through West Carteret and
he commented that tins was all pie in the sky because no one wants to
pay any of the money. Then a year ago he sat down with the Turnpike
a year ago and showed them a design to do it. He said they don't have
to take anybody's property to accomplish what he wants to
accomplish. He spoke about the bridge saying they should make if a
four (4) lane road. He said the bridge is not a true four lane bridge it
is an illegal four (4) lane bridge. He spken about making it a true
four (4) lane bridge. Belle Meade is going to put in four (4) more
booths for the Turnpike. Then he said there are some tanks there and
he has already talked to American Oil about these tanks.
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Motion to Adjourn
Motion to Re-üpen
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Industrial Bypass
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Motion to
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Mayor Sica said American Oil is not adverse to getting rid of these
tanks. He said two of then are leaking. They were built prior to 1934.
and they are old and rivety. He said they had lost two 2) tanks from
that fire. He suggested taking these three (3) that were only
equivalent to the storage of these two (2) and put these in there. He
said even if that doesn't occur Belle Mead will put a flyer over this
way, right into the shopping center. They will then put an underpass
this way, right into the toll booth under this fly over and the majority
of traffic will go that way. The Turnpike doesn't want the traffic
coming in both directions to hit into one another, so if they could get
it up fast enough without taking down the tank then they could do
that and if not then that might not be feasible but all of this other is
and what it then means is that we have two (2) lanes coming up this
way and it will cut the backup on the bridge in half. The other
alternative he came up with is to put a North Entrance and a
Southbound exit, the traffic coming down could get off over here and
the traffic going south could get through all of the configuration. He
said Belle Meade has been meeting with the Turnpike Authority on
numerous occasions. He then went on to speak about the Industrial
Road and Woodbridge.
At approximately 8:00 p.m., a motion to adjourn was made by
Councilmember Failace and second by Councilmember Fazekas, so
after no further discussion this meeting was adjourned.
Respectfully submitted,
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Municipal Clerk
KMB/lr
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