HomeMy Public PortalAbout1997/03/03
A Special Meeting of the Mayor and Council of the Borough of
Carteret was called to order by Mayor Peter J. Sica at 6:30 P.M., on
Thursday, March 3, 1997, 61 Cooke Avenue, Carteret, New Jersey
07008.
Upon individual roll call vote, the following were noted present:
Councilmember Bialowarczuk
" DuPont
" Failace
" Fazekas
" Feingold
" Gutowski
Also noted present were Attorney Craig Coughlin, Architect John
Wanskus and Attorney Mike Bruno.
The Clerk stated that on February 28,1997, in full compliance with the
Open Public Meetings Act, a notice of tonight's meeting was sent to
The Home News & Tribune, The Star-Ledger, and posted on the
bulletin board.
The purpose of the meeting was to adopt a Resolution to go into
Closed Session to discuss potential litigation.
RESOLUTION #97-78 was introduced by the Mayor and referred to
the Council for action.
Upon MM&C, by Councilmembers Gutowski and Fazekas
RESOLUTION #97-78
"RESOLUTION TO GO INTO CLOSED SESSION"
was adopted. Upon individual roll call, Councilmembers
Bialowarczuk, DuPont, Failace, F¡fì~r:"'" Feingold and Gutowski
voted in the affirmative.
At approximately 6:32 P.M. a Closed Session was held.
Mayor Sica told Mr. Wanskus the reason he is here was that the
Council was not happy with the Library and they were prepared to take
the contract from him unless he could (inaudible).
MARCH 3, 1997
SPECIAL flEET ING
ROLL CALL
STATEMENT OF
MEETING NOTICE
RESOLUTION g97-7!
RESOLUTI ON TO
GO INTO CLOSED
SESSION
ADOPTED
DISCUSSION
MARCH 3,
1997
DISCUSSION
CONTINUED
Michael Bruno, partner in the law firm of Giordano, (inaudible) and
was here on behalf ofMr. Wanskus. He said he echoed the sentiments
of the Council on getting the project complete he said Mr. Wanskus
was here with a proposal the Council would be happy with that
required some clear time frames. He said he would be making a
commitment and if he did not meet the time frames he would bear the
consequences. He said he understood that the Council wanted the
Library to be built, as did Mr. Wanskus because he spent a large part
of the last two years on the project and has not done other work to try
and complete this project. He said there has been an ongoing dispute
with Mr. Wanskus's Engineer regarding this project. He said as a
result of that the Engineering plans are not complete and the Architect
plans are complete and have been completed for some time.
John Wanskus said he had a meeting with the Council at the Borough
Hall in January 21, 1997 and at that time he was asked about the status
of the project. He said at that time he told the Mayor and Council that
the Architectural portion of the job was complete and revised but the
engineering portion which constituted the structural, electrical, and
mechanical, plumbing and fire protection drawings had to be revised
by his project engineer. He said his project engineer has been very
difficult to deal with especially during the last several months. He said
he has been doing everything within his power to have this man
perform. He said both legal counsel have been in contact. He said this
has put him into a very precarious situation with the Borough, not Mr.
Saperstein who is his proj ect engineer. He said at this point Mr.
Saperstein has continued to interfere with his client the Borough
instead of performing his work. He said in trying to resolve this as
best he could as he had stated at the meeting, he was given an
ultimatum on record that ifhis engineer did not perform he should fire
him and get someone else to do it. He said he fired him from the
advice of the Council because he did not want to breach his contract
with the Borough. He said he went with another engineering firm he
knew and had two meetings to discuss the project with them page by
page all the documents. He said they reviewed everything and were
going to put a proposal together for him. He said it took them two and
a half weeks to put a proposal together which was dated February 13th
and they said they would perform the work. He said they had a
meeting on February 18th with three of the Councilmembers to review
the status of the engineering work. He said he brought the owner and
the proj ect engineer James Anderson into the meeting with himself and
his attorney and he told them this was the new engineer of his choice.
He said they said they were able to proceed with their work with the
architectural drawings. He said they said as they went forward with
the project when the drawings were in a state of completion for
contract bidding and construction. He said if there any problems
which had to be resolved between the architectural drawings and the
engineering drawings while developing the details they would work
together and work out the details, which is how professionals are
supposed to work. He said if the engineer had questions of the
architect, the architect performs that and if the architect has problems
with the engineer does what he says. He said that is an inner working
relationship but has not had that with Mr. Saperstein. He said he felt if
Mr. Saperstein was a professional he would work to his contractual
obligations. He said Saperstein is to perform a set of documents,
which can be reviewed and approved by the Borough to go out to bid,
and he has not. He said he felt Mr. Saperstein has only caused
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problems instead of doing his work and has blamed him continuously
to the point where his credibility is lost and no one has any confidence
in him. He said he was the same person as he was when he started this
project and as professional as he has been. He said he has been doing
work in the Borough and work is going forward in the Sports Complex
and felt he was capable of doing and has delivered a project with
notoriety. He said this is a project with an eloquent design, which is
very sound from a programming standpoint and meets all the criteria
an architect has to do in his career. He said it makes sense in a site
plan, a space (inaudible) relationship, the users needs. He said nothing
in the set of drawings could be disputed. He said if someone questions
the studs this would be small intricacies and they would be resolved at
that point before they go to bid. He said if the Borough Engineer
wanted something changed, he did it. He said Mr. Palmar had
comments on five pages of the specifications and he changed those
five pages, gave it back to Mr. Palmar and he accepted it and said
everything was fine. He said he never denied doing one aspect of
anything of what anyone told him. He said everyone was aware of
what he was doing and he was in contact with his client and had
correspondence. He said he had a daily journal which he averaged two
meetings per week in the Borough of Carteret during the process of
doing this Library proj ect in regard to doing revisions that were
requested which were completed in the Borough's building
department. He said he started July 15th and continued working in the
Borough of Carteret through August 9th every day. He said he worked
with Mr. DiFrancesco on the third floor of the Borough Hall. He said
there is no architect in this state that would work outside his office, but
he did because he is committed. He said this was done because he was
asked to do it, it did interfere with scheduling and other proj ects he had
which he had to put on hold. He said he did it for the satisfaction of
Mr. DiFrancesco and the Library Director Ms. Pearl. He said the
architectural work was completed October 2, 1996 with the revisions.
He said after he performed on May 22 with a set of substantially
complete drawings. He said the drawings on the twenty second of
May were then revised during the summer and completed October 2,
1996. He said at that point the engineer, Mr. Saperstein was supposed
to perform his engineering revisions. He said Mr. Saperstein was
given a letter from him on October 28th with all the changes that were
made and Mr. Saperstein refused to do the changes. He said Mr.
Saperstein was on notice to do these changes and did not perform for
the last five months. He said he has not seen a set of drawings Mr.
Saperstein since he submitted his drawings on May 22, 1996 and those
are the same drawings he prepared and submitted April 4, 1996. He
said one month from tomorrow would April 4th and the last time Mr.
Saperstein worked on his drawings and felt with that non-performance,
he chose not to work with Mr. Saperstein. He said he felt Mr.
Saperstein's track record was that he has not gone forward to complete
what he was obligated to do under Mr. Wanskus's contract, instead he
has created difficulties for him, slanderous remarks which he would
not tolerate from anyone. He said he has not defamed Mr. Saperstein
or stated that his work is not complete but has stated that his work is
not complete maybe once, but has not defamed anyone in this case.
He said he felt he is the one who is being defamed. He said he
proposed to complete this project he would work with James Anderson
who he has the confidence in being a very professional company and
had their resume for the Council to review. He went on to tell the
Council some of Mr. Anderson's attributes. He said Mr. Anderson
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MARCH 3, 1997
DISCUSSION
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lARCH 3,
1997
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stated to him they would complete this work in seven to eight weeks
and he believed that this would happen. He said he believed their
quality of work would be such that there would be limited amount of
problems when the bidding phase is initiated on this project. He said
when a project goes to bid it must be precise, if there are any
discrepancies the contractors can not issue a bid. He said this has to
have complete cooperation between professionals to happen. He said
someone could not high-ball a bid twenty percent higher just because
the information is not on the plan, it has to be issued with the exact
information that is on the plan as a basis of them establishing their
price. He said if the plans are not of that quality and he felt Mr.
Saperstein's plans are not of that quality in his professional opinion as
well as Mr. Anderson's professional opinion after reviewing Mr.
Saperstein's drawings. He said the drawings need to be precise, the
drawings, which were done by Mr. Anderson, are done on computers
and are all cad drawings, which are very clear and concise. He said
James Anderson is a company that does a lot of Municipal work and a
lot of public bidding work and is very familiar with the industry. He
said James Anderson just completed the Municipal project for
(inaudible) township where they were the project engineers. He said
they have the experience to put the drawings with his together to make
the package they determine necessary to go to bid. He said everyone
has been waiting since September 21, 1995, when the Resolution was
passed and felt in his heart he has delivered what he said he could. He
said the only part of his work that was not delivered at this point were
the engineering drawings and felt he should not be penalized or
crucified to the point of not having performed this for the Borough as
his client. He said he has done his hardest to do what he was asked to
do and go forward with the engineer he selected to bring into the
project. He said to hear that Mr. Saperstein is now given the
opportunity to go forward and complete the project without him is
asinine. He said he was the author and owner of the drawings with
regard to design (inaudible) not Mr. Saperstein who was given the
design by him. He said he was the one who created this from his own
ideas and should be given the opportunity to complete what I said he
could. He said he felt without Mr. Saperstein the project would go
smoothly and forward rapidly and out to bid and built the way it was
on the plan. He said if Mr. Saperstein is involved in the project and
the Council decides to hire him by Resolution to complete the work.
He said Mr. Saperstein could do the work ifhe started over with a new
design but he assured the Council he would not deliver as he said he
could. He said in four weeks at thirty thousand dollars this set of
drawings would save the Borough a hundred thousand dollars that Mr.
Saperstein claimed to do but felt that is an impossibility he felt this
would not happen with this project. He is he is confident he could do
the job and has experience no thinks he does have and is a very
experienced architect. He said in Carteret he has done over one
hundred projects in the last five years of all sizes, the four hundred and
four thousand square foot UPS Building is his project that is right
behind the Library and he had no difficulties. He went on to list
different buildings and their varying sizes he has done with no
difficulties and were they were located and said the Building
Department could attest to that because he has received building
permits and had his drawings on file for everything he has done
including the Sports Complex. He said the Sports Building is almost done but there are some minor changes he reviews with the Building
Department and gets the approvals in no more than seven days from
4
Mr. Pahnar per the contract. He said he does not and has never
delayed on anything. He said the Sports Field was done, the lighting
was done, the grading of the Soccer Field was done. He said he has
performed for the Borough of Carteret and has a track record with the
Borough and lives in Carteret but Mr. Saperstein has no track record or
projects in the Borough but the Council believes whatever Mr.
Saperstein says. He said he knew Mr. Saperstein was older than him
and might have more experience in years than himself but he has more
licenses than Mr. Saperstein does. He said he could create this project
without Mr. Saperstein and could seal and do the engineering drawing
because he has a letter from the Board of Architects stating that he
could do that. He said Mr. Saperstein could not complete this project
without him as the architect.
Michael Bruno said one of the issues of confusion was the amount
paid to Mr. Wanskus on this project together with the Sports Facility
and the Marina Project. He said he has put together an outline of
payments made by the Borough to date and how they were applied
which he passed out to the Mayor and Council. He said he felt this
was helpful because with the Library Project only some twenty
thousand dollars was paid which was part of the reason for the delay
on Mr. Saperstein's part. He said Mr. Saperstein claims he has not
been paid and he refuses to perform as leverage to get additional
payments. He said he has tried to request additional payments from
the Borough, which have not been forthcoming. He said he
understood the Borough's position because they would want to see
finished plans before they let go of any further money. He said at this
point with the plans before the Mayor and Council he felt it was
reasonable and pursuant to the contract that additional monies be
released to pay the engineer to complete the work. He said they would
be agreeable to putting the money in escrow to only be released upon
the Borough's approval of the engineering plans so they would be
certain the money would not be released to anyone but the engineer
and until the plans are complete to their satisfaction. He said at this
juncture he felt it was important to note that only twenty three
thousand five hundred dollars was applied to the Library Project. He
said the other message he felt Mr. Wanskus wanted to convene this
evening was that he was open to discussing this with the Borough in
terms of what they would like by way of assurances Mr. Wanskus
could give them to be happy and they could proceed with him as the
architect. He said they are willing to give assurances in terms of
timing or whatever else that would be reasonable so they would be
satisfied they are making the right choice going forward.
Mayor Sica said all the talking is a waste of time because they did not
want to hear Mr. Wanskus's problems were with Mr. Saperstein or
what Mr. Saperstein's problems are with Mr. Wanskus all they want is
the finished product. He said we had no contract with Mr. Saperstein
what so ever. He said Mr. Saperstein has called him over a hundred
times yet he has not returned his calls because he has no reason to talk
to him. He said all he knows is they were promised a finished project
over and over and has not gotten it which is the problem. He said it
could not continue this way.
Michael Bruno said they do not disagree with the Mayor and they are
proposing to hire a new architect to complete this project in eight
weeks time. He said the Borough has to acknowledge that Mr.
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MARCH 3, 1997
DISCUSSION
CONTI NUED
MARCH 3, 1997
DISCUSSION
CONTINUED
Saperstein has not completed the engineering drawings and Mr.
Wanskus has submitted architectural drawings, which they have in
front of them. He said there is outstanding engineering work that
needs to be done and Mr. Wanskus's contractor Mr. Saperstein has not
performed and they have terminated him and they would be
proceeding with Mr. Anderson's company.
Mayor Sica said again Mr. Saperstein's contention is that the
architectural drawings are not complete enough to do the engineering
work and this or that is not right, he said that is not the Mayor and
Council's problem all they want is a finished product.
Councilmember Bialowarczuk said they are now talking about waiting
another seven or eight weeks they were supposed to have these things
out to bid and felt this was another promise.
Michael Bruno said he knew but all they could do is make a promise at
this point.
Councilmember Bialowarczuk said none of the promises have been
kept until this point.
Michael Bruno said they have asked the Council to give them one
more opportunity to let them perform, it is a sophisticated project.
Mayor Sica said four or five weeks ago when they had the meeting Mr.
Wanskus said he could complete this project by March 15th provided
he has "X" amount of dollars to pay for an engineer. He said they
would have drew him up a check the next day morning payable to the
engineer, not Mr. Wanskus to get the work going and the Borough
would have a finished product. He said they waited until some time in
February at a progress meeting to find out that they can not do it
because they do not have the money to pay the engineer. He said he
does not want to hear they are going to try to do it but they could not
do it. He said if that was what was necessary the professional thing to
is tell the client you need "X" amount of dollars up front to complete
this project and give a guarantee of this, this and this. He said that
would have been no problem at that point in time. He said to wait a
whole month and then say they need "X" amount of dollars is the kind
of stuff that aggravates him. He said they understand there are
problems on every job and somewhere along the line they have to
change something. He said they changed the roof design on the Sports
Building just to save twenty or thirty thousand dollars. He said they
are going to change things on the Library too, they may not put the
mezzanine in which he has discussed with Mr. Wanskus when they
were designing it they designed it to put it in or not put it in; the same
with the clock tower. He said they would base these things on the cost
of things and they know the cost would not be exactly what they put in
the budget and if they want something they would have to pay for it.
He said he wants them to show the Borough what they could get for
this amount of dollars and they would tell him what they want and do
not want. He said that is all they want and is all they have ever
wanted. He said he did not feel anyone on this Council would have
voted against putting up the money to hire an engineer to replace Mr.
Saperstein. He said the Council does not care if Mr. Saperstein or Mr.
Anderson does the work or even Councilmember DuPont does the
work they could care less as long as the work is done.
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MARCH 3, 1997
Michael Bruno said he could assure the Mayor that Mr. Wanskus
wants it done and the only reason they did not request money
specifically a month ago is because they are so far down the end of the
road with this project and plans that they were hoping Mr. Saperstein
would complete the plans knowing he would be paid when he was
done.
DISCUSSION
CONTINUED
Mayor Sica said" Mike, you live in hope, you die hopeless."
Michael Bruno said when you have professionals you hope they do
what they are contractually obligated to do.
Councilmember Bialowarczuk said if he knew right away that Mr.
Saperstein was not going to do it Mr. Wanskus should not have sat on
it.
Michael Bruno said he could assure Councilmember Bialowarczuk as
the attorney on this matter this was not sat on.
Councilmember Bialowarczuk said she listened to the attorney the
other night who said exactly that.
Michael Bruno assured her they are working on this everyday.
Councilmember Bialowarczuk said now it is the same law firm, two
different attorneys, both are saying two different things.
Mayor Sica said they have two different things they have to decide
tonight, do they want to continue with Mr. Wanskus and put the
money up for the engineer and that is all.
Michael Bruno said the Mayor has to understand something, that Mr.
Wanskus owns the plans.
Mayor Sica said that could be decided in the courts. He said as far as
he is concerned who owns the plans at this point is irrelevant. He said
Carteret is not looking to beat Mr. Wanskus out of his share of the
profit or loss he would be making on this job. He said they have never
had the intention to hire Mr. Saperstein for thirty thousand dollars and
save the rest of the money that is not Carteret's intention or never
would be. He said the town is not in the business of hurting anyone.
He said they have no problem paying Mr. Wanskus his contractual
price based on the performance of his work. He said they are not
saying because he took so long they would fine him or penalize him
"X" amount of dollars all they are looking to do is get a finished
product. He said Mr. Wanskus has to assure him tonight that if they
advance the money to Anderson and pay him directly if necessary to
complete the job. He said Mr. Wanskus could continue as the architect
of record until the project is completed and he did not want to change
in mid stream that would be the last resort. He said if there is no other
choice that would be the resort they would take or they could go to
court to argue over who owns the drawings. He the town would rather
spend money on books than lawyers.
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MARCH 3, 1~91
DISCUSSION
CONTI NUED
Michael Bruno said Mr. Wanskus wants to perform and asked Mr.
Wanskus to give the Mayor and Council his assurance that he would
perform.
Borough Attorney Coughlin said based on the conversation they had
there is some question as to whether the architectural portion of the
drawings is done. He said Mr. Saperstein has indicated he can not
complete the drawings because he claims they are not done Mr.
Wanskus claims that he believes they are done. He said the threshold
question in that area is the Mayor and Council has to decide if they
believe that they are satisfactorily completed.
Mayor Sica said he felt part of it is and Mr. Wanskus touched on it is
in practicality, those are the architectural drawings. He said when the
engineer takes the drawings there may be a reason to make changes
and that does happen to everyone. He said in theory the drawings are
done in practicality if changes have to be made that is an architect's
responsibility who at this time would be Mr. Wanskus. He said if they
took the job from Mr. Wanskus an architect and an engineer still have
to work hand in hand together to get the total completed product.
Borough Attorney Coughlin said presumably Mr. Saperstein is
familiar with that working relationship and when he says it is not
completed he believed it is not completed to a point where he could do
that and there is the refinement process which brings it ultimately to
the point where it goes out to bid. He said his observation is they need
to decide if they want to change streams in regard to the engineer or if
they are going to go forward.
Mayor Sica asked Mr. Wanskus if when he met with Anderson did
Anderson say he could work with these drawings and get the job
completed.
John Wanskus said they lead us to believe they took a very preliminary
look and he had the impression they did not understand the total scope
until they sat down with the Council and they were talking about the
project and they were some things they did not know.
Michael Bruno said he got a letter from them today and they have
indicated that based on their preliminary review of the documents
provided they could provide adequate details to enable them to
complete the engineering to complete a finalized set of documents. He
said they believe that the documents are in shape enough to complete
their drawings within their timeline and no one is saying that Mr.
Wanskus is ...
Councilmember Fazekas interrupted to say there is a punch list that
also has to do with it, they do not have a punch list. He said they sent
that over but they have to redo the punch list.
John Wanskus said Councilmember Fazekas was talking about the
engineering punch list, they are aware ofthe engineering punch list.
Councilmember Fazekas said they did not seem to be aware of it that
night.
John Wanskus said they were not aware of it that night.
8
Councilmember Fazekas asked if they reviewed the punch list.
John Wanskus said the comments on the punch list- the engineering
drawings. . .
Councilmember Fazekas said he really did not want to hear it because
he was very upset over this and wanted to withdraw his question.
Mayor Failace said it was a good question and he should not withdraw
it.
Councilmember Fazekas was noted absent 7:10 P.M.
Mayor Sica said if there were a punch list out there they would have to
be assured that Anderson has not looked at it. He asked what the
comments were on it.
John Wanskus said the comments on the punch list were reviewed
with Mr. Anderson's company. He said the comments that were on
the punch list were from the Building Department which came when
the Building Department reviewed the drawings May 14, 16 and May
17'h. He said there were four reports from Mr. Greenberg, Mr.
Neibert, Mr. Rosinski and Mr. DiFrancesco the four subcode officials
who reviewed the plans. He said Mr. Saperstein was to complete those
items, he did see those items complete on his plans. He said Mr.
Saperstein did say he did complete them but he did not see them. He
said the items on the punch list were reviewed with Mr. Anderson's
company, James C. Anderson who said this is no more than normal to
have a punch list and those items will be corrected prior to submitting
the drawings in a completed set to go out to bid. He said they actually
have a head start on this, they actually know what the items on the
punch list are before they start their work. He said as far as them
being in the dark; they are not in the dark.
Councilmember DuPont asked if our engineer, Mr. Palmar (inaudible)
to the architectural drawings or not, he has a bunch of comments and
questions about this.
Mayor Sica said what Mr. Palmar is talking about is the drawings that
are architectural drawings and they can not go out to bid now because
the engineering is not done on them.
Councilmember DuPont said he did not say besides the engineering
documents, the architectural (inaudible)
John Wanskus said he had Mr. Palmar's whole punch list, this set of
drawings is architectural. He said when he wrote the letter to Mr.
Palmar who is an engineer; he told him in letter form that he should
review the engineering drawings, not the architectural drawings. He
said he felt the architectural drawings should be reviewed by Mr.
DiFrancesco, the Construction Official, who would review the
drawings and say if someone would get the permit or not. He said he
could call Mr. DiFrancesco down here right now who is at home and
had spoke to him earlier today in his office. He said he would testify
they could get a building permit on these architectural drawings right
now. He said this is a man with a license, which he felt he would not
put his license on the line for anyone. He said Mr. DiFrancesco he
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MARCH 3. 1997
DISCUSSION
(CONTINUED)
"lARCH 3- 1997
could give them a permit on this to build this building just the way it is
with the code map. He said he said the reason he could issue the
project to go to bid is that he did not have the engineering drawings.
Mayor Sica said, as of late today that is what Ralph DiFrancesco told
him, architecturally the drawings are 99 percent complete. He said
except when the engineering drawings are complete there may have to
be a movement of a stud here. . .
Councilmember DuPont said he did not get that impression from
Borough Engineer, Mr. Palmar.
Mayor Sica said he did not understand why Mr. Palmar was even
involved in the architectural.
Councilmember DuPont they have to rely on who ever they had. . .
DISCUSSION
(CONTINUED)
Mayor Sica interrupted to say, there is no doubt about it, he is a
tremendously smart man, but felt Mr. Palmar is overlooking the thing
about the engineer. He said he felt Mr. Palmar should concentrate on
engineering which is his forte and architecturally the Building
Department is the department who says architecturally it is the way it
is supposed to be to comply with the building codes. He said today the
Council read the letter from Mr. Neibert on the electrical and him
wanting to take all the power out of the building. He said he had Mr.
DiFrancesco look at the building today and brought him the
(inaudible) and code. He said the wiring is perfect but Mr. Neibert has
had the job shut down for a week for what he felt was stupidity
because he did not read the code. He felt Mr. Neibert should worry
about did they build this according to the electrical drawings, which he
had the right to look at the Planning review but never brought anything
up at the Planning review. He said now you want him to put it in and
now you tell him to take it out.
Councilmember DuPont said Mr. Palmar had a lot of good input as far
as (inaudible) your spec (inaudible) and had a lot of comments.
John Wanskus said those comments were all changed and there
weren't that many changes.
Councilmember DuPont said it seemed like a lot of sticky notes
through out the. . .
John Wanskus said yellow tabs
Councilmember DuPont said during this project and he knew he
wasn't here for most of it. He asked how many times were there cost
estimates and there was some confusion about how much the project
was supposed to be.
Unidentified Voice said it is in the basic service agreement contract.
John Wanskus said the one thing he would ever state to anyone is fact.
He said because if you state fact you can not be proven a liar; only
fact, that is the only thing that will come out of his mouth is fact. He
said good or bad, he would not make himself look good and lie. He
said to make me look good at someone else's expense, he will not do
10
MARCH 3- 1997
that which he would consider as a liar. He said he is not a liar, he
would always state fact. He said with regard to the cost of the building
when he first started this project a major concern of everyone's is that
everyone knows the project will cost more than allocated by the
Borough. He said they don't know exactly how much until the bids
come back. He said in his contract which is a standard contract with
an owner; Architect Bl41 Document that states on the firs page the
three projects he is doing, the size of the buildings which was told to
him for the programming of approximately a twenty thousand square
feet Library, fifteen thousand square foot Senior Community Center.
He said with regard to construction costs there is an article in the
contract that states and went on to quote the contract the Council read
along with him. He said evaluation of the owner's project budget
preliminary estimates of construction costs and detailed estimates of
construction costs if any prepared by the architect represent the
architect's best judgement as a design professional familiar with the
construction industry. He said it is recognized that neither the
architect nor the owner has control over the cost of labor, materials or
equipment over the contractor's methods of determining bid prices or
over competitive bidding market or negotiating conditions. He
continued to read the contract as the Mayor and Council followed
along and quoted various sections of what the architect was required to
do. Architect John Wanskus stated ...(inaudible)... equipment,
component systems and types of constructions are to be included in the
contract documents. He said to make reasonable adjustments in the
sculpt of the project and to include the contract documents, alternate
bids to adjust the construction cost to the fixed limit. He said he was
given the size of the building from the first day and that is why it was
in this contract, 20,000 sq. feet for the Library and 15,000 sq. feet for
the Senior Center. He said he designed this building 20,015 sq. feet
actually it became, with revision, 20,000 plus a mezzanine of three
which can be taken away. He said it would be 16,000 sq. feet for the
Senior Center because of the occupant load and the assembly room
with the stage required and extra 1000 sq. feet and that is why it is
16,000.00. He said the Clock Tower was added as a design for the
history of Carteret, which you can delete if you want, and the
reflecting pool out front as a sense of design can be deleted as well.
He said at no point was a fix limit for the budget of this project
installed in this contract. He said this was the reason why he did not
design for a cost. He said it was told to him, if the project exceed the
amount made available, more money would be given. He said that is
what was told to him as the architect.
RE: LIBRARY/
SENIOR
COMMUNITY
CENTER
Mayor Sica stated this was provided if the plan met everyone's need.
Architect John Wanskus stated exactly.
Councilmember Stan Gutowski said in Article 2.5 says the architect
has to submit to the owner a preliminary estimate of construction cost
based on the current area volume of other human cost.
Councilmember DuPont said also in Article 2.43said Architect shall
advise the owner of any adjustments to previous preliminary estimates
or construction cost, any kind of change.
Mayor Sica said he feels that cost can not be given until the drawing
are done.
11
MARCH 3, 1997
DISCUSSION
(CONTINUED)
Architect Wanskus said he did notify. .. He asked the Council to listen
to one thing he has to say about this. He said they are right about ...
(inaudible)...schematic design phase and design development phase.
He said in those two phases he did changes to the building program.
He said the changes he did were namely were the mezzanine, clock
tower, and the reflecting pool at that point. He said these were before
the construction. ..(inaudible)... was even started during the first two
phases. He said he has a letter in his file, which stated these are going
to increase the cost of construction. By how much he does not know.
He said the reason is because the mezzanine had to increase the height
of the building by approximately 4 feet as Mayor Sica knows. He said
he did not have enough height. He stated he had the original set of
drawing which were presented to the governor, when she came in
September 22 or 23, 1997 at the White Rose Building and he said he
has a copy of the presentation boards which he made and they did not
have the mezzanine. He said the addition of the mezzanine-added cost
and the Borough was alerted to that fact. He asked the Council if they
wanted a copy of the letter because he could provide a copy of the
correspondence
Councilmember DuPont stated.. . (inaudible). .. received a memo from
Mr. Wanskus on November 27 1997 . ..(inaudible)... He said the
memo read Preliminary Project Budget Library. He asked Mr.
Wanskus if he could explain how the cost went from $3,000,000.00
preliminary budget, and the Council knows all the ups and downs. He
said he feels it is a $5,000,000.00 Library. He said he would like to
know how the preliminary budget went from $3,000,000.00 to
$5,000,000.00. He asked if Mr. Wanskus inform the Council and did
the Council get the cost estimates they were suppose to
have.. . (inaudible). ..
Mr. Wanskus said there was never a cost estimate of construction,
preliminary or broken down detailed estimate prepared by his office at
all doing the start of this project or even now at the completion of this
project, not once. He said the only thing that was stated by him was
when the changes were made cost were escalating because every thing
that is changed and added increases the cost of construction unless it is
taken away. He said the perimeters of the building, as he initially had
at 20,000 and 15,000 was designed and was designed as needed in the
building.
Unidentified voice said he basically did not fulfil1...(Inaudible)...
Attorney Mike Bruno said the borough did not request. He said Mr.
Wanskus would be happy to fulfill it. He said the Borough told Mr.
Wanskus the budget was $3-3,500,000.00. He asked Mr. Wanskus to
confirm dollar amount.
Mr. Wanskus stated he was told $3,500,000.00
Unidentified voice said on the documents it says $3,000,000.00
Attorney Mike Bruno stated he is sure Mr. Wanskus would be happy
to provide that if he was requested to. He said they heard the other
night that the Council requested it and they were not prepared to give
12
it to the Council at that time but if that is something the Council wants
Mr. Wanskus is happy to provide it.
Mayor Sica said the Council understands adding the tower, the
mezzanine, the reflecting pool, the walls they want over here, the
bathrooms they want over here and the staircase they want over there
that all adds cost and the they all understand that. He said as he said
before when they sat down with Mr. Wanskus and said here is a basic
ball park figure $3-3,500,000.00 and if it is going to go more then that
let us know it is going to go more, when the time comes and the
council gets a definitive number by way of the bid the mezzanine is
.. . (inaudible). .. the roof is .. . (inaudible). . .up and if the Council wants
to do it in the future they can do it. He said but if the.. . (inaudible). ..4
more feet it can not be done in the future. He said there are certain
things that have to stay, even if the mezzanine is eliminated. He said
the mezzanine could not be put in later on and then raise the ceiling.
He said at that point and time the bids are received and of the council
feels this is what then more money will be raised to do this as simple
as that or cut back or just build something they can be proud of. He
said this thing, if it is built according to the schematics, the module,
this town has something to be proud off. He said that is what
.. . (inaudible).. . town in.
Mr. Wanskus said he could give a perfect example of what Mayor Sica
is talking about in the sports complex in which he did not have a
probable cost of construction on that project either. He said he went to
bid the first time on that proj ect and the bids came back, the cheapest
was $770,000.00, and the highest was almost $1,000,000.00 from the
guy from New York City. He said he was brought into the Mayor's
office and he said the Mayor asked him what kind of a building did he
design, it is $7-800,000.00 why so much. He said he told the Mayor
probably because there were not a lot of bidders, he said there were
only four. He said the Mayor asked if they could re-bid. He said he
told the mayor to re-bid and then see what the other numbers are. He
said the second time they bid, he submitted to Gloria Goodrich 32 sets
of drawings and there were 32 bidders who picked up drawings. He
said and the lowest price was the one who was doing the building and
that was $573,000.00 that was negotiated down with the change in
some materials. He said the bidding form establishes the cost of
construction. He said once those prices are gotten, which it says in
article 5 that is where it will be determined and then it can be adjusted
accordingly.
Borough Attorney Coughlin asked if it was fair to say the original
plans prior to any changes were in the $3-3,500,000.00 range. He said
that is what the Mayor indicated the preliminary budget was going to
be.
Mr. Wanskus said the initial set of drawings that were completed and
the first drawing before the mezzanine and anything was added that
was presented in front of the governor was more in line with meeting
the budget at that time which was $3,500,000.00 established.
Mayor Sica made a statement about the budget amount being
$3,500,000.00 the rest of conversation inaudible
13
MARCH 3- 1997
RE: LIBRARY
DISCUSSION
MARCG 3. 1997
Borough Attorney Coughlin stated everyone recognizes that obviously
if you build a house or whatever the more you add the more, the cost
goes up. He said what needs to be established is whether there was a
base at least when the original plans where constructed to a price
range.
DISCUSSION
(CONTINUED)
Mr. Wanskus stated there was 35,000 sq. feet, the building was lower,
no clock tower, no mezzanine, no monumental stairs, no wall dividing
the children area, no reflecting pool and the building was functional
the way it was designed. He said he has a copy of those drawings and
that was in line with that budget, maybe a little bit more depending
when you went out to bid and all the drawings were done
$3,500,000.00 maybe at the most $4,000,000.00. He said at the point
now where the drawings are the price has escalated the mezzanine cost
$3,000.00 plus adding 4 feet to the height of the building, the clock
tower, reflecting pool, the wall between the two, the 1000 sq. feet to
the Senior Center added cost. He said if these cost are added up it is
going to be over $4,000,000.00 and everybody knows that. He said
especially in the meeting on the February 18 and he was asked and he
did not give an answer because he said it could be based on economic
factor without doing a cost of construction detailed estimate and that is
when DiFrancesco who was in the meeting said between $120-150 per
sq. foot. He said his engineers JCA, an engineering company with a
lot of experience in this field stated approximately $110-140 in that
vicinity based on what they had done.
Councilmember Fazekas stated if I was never provided with a cost and
he goes through changes, he could not assume it is going to cost him
more. He asked was that correct.
Mr. Wanskus asked if he does not provide him with a cost estimate
and you go through changes. ...
Councilmember Fazekas said yes you do not provide me with an
estimate and he makes changes how does he assume it will cost him
more.
Mr. Wanskus asked ifhe does not give a cost.
Mayor Sica said well if you go from a 30,000 sq. ft building to a
34,000 sq. ft building, you know your are at a 1/7'h more cost
minimum.
Councilmember Fazekas said his point is with changes if it is never
brought up, you do not know it is going to cost you more.
Mr. Wanskus said he did state and he has letters and documentation
that everything that was adding to the building was adding cost to the
building and he can provide copies.
Mayor Sica is very upset about the constant changes in the building.
Mr. Wanskus said he does have copies of letters that were submitted
with regards to changes to the building, adding cost to the proj ect.
Mayor Sica said what needs to be decided at this point and time is
what can be done with this building. He asked should they procreate x
14
amount of dollars for Anderson to do the engineering work and
continue to have Wanskus stay on as the architect or do we change it
midstream. He asked Mr. Wanskus to give them 5 minutes.
At approximately 7:30 P.M. went into recess.
At approximately 7:35 P.M. meeting reconvened.
Councilmember Failace said they have to fire Mr. Saperstein.
Councilmember DuPont asked the Borough Attorney how to send him
out and he says they are not up to par or whatever. Do we have a right
to say that we have to (inaudible). Who makes the call as to whether
we are waiving our rights?
Borough Attorney Craig Coughlin said we would review the entire
architectural drawings. He said he guessed that the term would have to
be that they are substantially completed. If they conclude that they are
then (inaudible).
Mayor Sica said Mr. Saperstein is not the architect of record. We have
Mr. Anderson do it and we should sent it to an independent architect
and he can pay the cost. When he comes back it will be substantially
completed and we will put him back on the project.
Councilmember DuPont asked the Mayor a question and it was
entirely inaudible.
Mayor Sica said it can go out to bid. He said he would check to see if
it needed some minor changes.
Borough Attorney Craig Coughlin said he thought they had to have a
mutual standard that we have to (inaudible) back and forth. The
Engineering would have had some (inaudible).
Mayor Sica said that could be worked out between his lawyer and our
lawyer.
Councilmember Gutowski said if we fire Mr. Saperstein and hire Mr.
Anderson and keep Mr. Wanskus in limbo and send these plans out to
an independent architect, at his cost, if they come back we are going to
tell it is at his cost. If they come back at his cost unproved. . .
Councilmember Failace said or there has to be money in the
(inaudible) room. If it takes another week and a half or so to add these
drawings (inaudible).
Mayor Sica said they were still going to need engineering work done.
The architect that you are going to hire to do this independent study
can't give you an answer unless you have some kind of Engineering
(inaudible). You don't have the architectural drawings and you could
see the (inaudible).
Councilmember DuPont said (inaudible).
Councilmember Fazekas asked if they had to fire Mr. Saperstein.
15
MARCH 3, 1997
RECESS
RECONVENED
DISCUSSION
MARCH 3, 1997
DISCUSSION
CONTINUED
MR. WANSKUS &
MR. BRUNO ,ESQ. -
RETURNED TO
MEETING
Councilmember DuPont said Mr. Saperstein incurred costs and he also
thinks he is going to do some architectural work as well.
Councilmember Failace asked ifthey spoke to Mr. Saperstein.
Councilmember DuPont said he spoke to him on Friday.
Borough Attorney Craig Coughlin said he may think he is going to do
some architectural work. We don't want him going out and incur any
cost because (inaudible). He said he can talk to him tomorrow
morning.
Councilmember Gutowski said he IS leaving for Florida on
Wednesday.
(ALL TALKING AT ONCE, INAUDffiLE).
At approximately 7:50 P.M. Mr. Wanskus and Michael Bruno, Esq.
returned to the meeting.
Borough Attorney Craig Coughlin said what they would like to do is
try to come up with a way by which we would ultimately resolve this
matter. What we would propose to do is the following. The Council's
opinion is that their may exists a question to whether or not the
architectural work is complete. We would like to resolve that by
sending it to an independent architect at your cost. Their
recommendation with regard to whether there is substantial (inaudible)
architectural drawings. Recognizing the fact that there are not any
engineering drawings to be done and that there is some open
(inaudible) to be accomplished after the fact. Inaudible but it will be
along those lines. If in fact this independent architectural review
results in an opinion by those architects that there is substantial
completion (inaudible). Then the Borough would reinstate Mr.
Wanskus. If in fact they conclude that there is not substantial
(inaudible) that the architectural plans are not in (inaudible) would be
done. We would propose that Mr. Wanskus remain in the current
status, which is not (inaudible) to conclude the job. If we wait any
further claims to either the use if the drawings (inaudible). If that is
acceptable we would proceed with that.
Mayor Sica said the other thing is if the architect drawings and the
independent architect come back and say they are okay then we would
pick up or advance in order to pay Mr. Anderson to do the
engineering.
Borough Attorney Craig Coughlin said that we would propose that we
hire the engineer directly. Understand, that we believe in doing it and
we do run the risk of a (inaudible). We think that would ultimately
conclude that (inaudible).
(Inaudible) asked how long do they propose that will take.
Borough Attorney Craig Coughlin said we want it done sooner rather
than later.
16
Mayor Sica said he would go one step further and have Mr. Wanskus
submit it in three days.
Mr. Wanskus said he is not doubting his plans. He said he is not
(inaudible). This is totally out of left field. He said he did not think
this would be an issue. He said he could not give them a decision right
now because in his opinion this is stating that he has to rely on another
entity, another professional mainly another architect like himself to
establish his own (inaudible). He said his fear is if he says no these
drawings are terrible, you can't do anything, and these drawings are
not in any type of completion. He said he was going to be not only
penalized but ridiculed and he would be giving up all rights to
(inaudible) and a year and one half of his life. To further enforce his
concern the architect that the Borough is choosing most likely would
have an opportunity to complete this work. He will be giving up all
rights to his creation and not get any accolades fiom his profession as
a society of architects. He said he is in a lose/ lose situation here after
the one thing during this whole process from the very begiuning
because of the doubt that they have instilled upon you.
Mayor Sica said he did not think that Mr. Wanskus was in a lose/lose
situation. He said he thought he was in a win/win situation because if
you have confidence in your drawings then you have nothing to lose.
We are the guys who are paying the bills and we are the one going
overboard numerous times to try to get this thing going. He said he is
now going to go overboard by paying Mr. Anderson to do it, by
getting an independent architect to ensure that the drawings are good.
He said he did not see anything wrong with the drawings. So, you are
in a winning situation not a losing one. What you are saying is in fact
that are architect comes back and (inaudible) then you are in a win/win
situation too. If they were not good we are not going to take them or
we are going to have problems with Mr. Sudia. So, now you are
getting the best of both worlds.
Mr. Wanskus said the Mayor was correct about that but on the other
hand you said that he is giving up all claims to his creation.
Michael Bruno, Esq. said he wanted to understand this. He said that
they should work on the definition of substantial completion.
Mayor Sica said we are taking into consideration that the Engineering
drawings are not there with it so it may necessitate moving a beam
here or something there. But, what they are saying is if there is
something catastrophically wrong with these things and the roof falls
down and kills somebody. There has to be something that is substantial
in nature.
Mr. Wanskus said that the Mayor was talking about malpractice.
Mayor Sica replied of course he was. We understand that keeping you
on fiom now to the conclusion of the project, your insurance is still in
effect. If this building falls down six months after we open up we are
going to sue your insurance company.
Mr. Wanskus said we understand all that but we want to make sure
(inaudible).
17
MARCH 3, 1997
DISCUSSION
CONTINUED
MARCH 3, 1997
INAUDIBLE - ALL SPEAKING AT ONCE.
DISCUSSION
Borough Attorney Craig Coughlin said they said to him the only thing
that is out standing is the Engineering (inaudible). Based on that
engineering there is ultimate fine tuning that needs to be accomplished
at an architectural prospective before it can be sent out to bid.
Mr. Wanskus said what he would say is that he is not sure (inaudible)
but he will give you one in the morning, if that is expendable.
Provided that they select the architect, we would like the ability to
approve that selection.
Mayor Sica said that goes without saying and cause of there too.
Mr. Wanskus said he also acknowledges that we are doing this as a
combination because the contract really says there is no right to
arbitration. (inaudible) we will wait for you answer, thank you.
OPENED TO THE
PUBLIC
At approximately 8:00 P.M., upon MMS&C, by Councilmembers
Fazekas and Gutowski and unanimous affirmative vote of the full
members present, the meeting was opened to the public.
ADJOURNED
At approximately 8:01 P.M., upon MMS&C, by Councilmembers
Fazekas and Bialowarczuk and unanimous affirmative vote of the full
members present, this meeting was adjourned.
Respectfully Submitted,
~~
Municipal Clerk
KMB/cp
/ tr
lam
18
A Special Meeting of the Mayor and Council of the Borough of
Carteret was called to order by Mayor Peter J. Sica at 6:30 P.M. on
Monday, March 3, 1997, Municipal CourtlPolice Facility, 230
Roosevelt Avenue, Carteret, New Jersey.
Upon individual roll call, the following were noted present:
Council member Deborah Bialowarczuk
" " John DuPont
" " James Failace
" " Jack Fazekas
" " William Feingold
" " Stan!ey Gutowski
Also noted present was Borough Attorney Craig Coughlin,
Attorney Michael Bruno and John Wanskus.
Mailed to The Home News & Tribune, The Star Ledger and posted
on the bulletin board on February 28, 1997.
To adopt a resolution to go into Closed Ses:>ion to discuss potential
litigation.
RESOLUTION #97-78 was introduced by the Mayor and was
refen·ed to the Council for action
Upon MMS&C, by Councilmembers Gutowski and Fazekas
RESOLUTION #97-78
"RESOLUTION TO GO INTO CLOSED SESSION"
was adopted. Upon individual roll call, Councilmembers
Bialowarczuk, DuPont, Failace, Fazekas, Feingold and Gutowski
voted in the affirmative.
At approximately 6:32 P.M., the meeting adjourned into Closed
Session.
Upon MMS&C, by Council members Fazekas and Gutowski and
unanimous affIrmative vote of the full membership present, the
meeting was opened to the public at approximately 8:00 P.M.
MARCH 3, 1997
SPECIAL MEETING
March 3, 1997
ROLL CALL
STATEMENT OF
MEETING NOTICE
PURPOSE OF
MEETING
RESOLUTION
#97-78
Closed Session
Adopted
Adjourned to
Closed Session
Open Session
MARCH 3, 1997
SPECIAL MEETING
-Continued
ADJOURNED
There being no further business or discussion, the meeting
adjourned at approximately 8:01 P.M., upon MMS&C, by
Councilmembers Fazekas and Bialowarczuk and unanimous
affirmative vote of the full membership present.
Respectfully submitted,
~~WJ~
THLEEN M. A ,,~ CMC....
Municipal Clerk '
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