HomeMy Public PortalAbout1996/05/16
An Informal Meeting of the Mayor and Council of the Borough of
Carteret was held at 7:00 P.M., on Thursday, May 16, 1996, Council
Office, Municipal Building, 61 Cooke Avenue, Carteret, New Jersey.
Upon individual roll call, the following were noted present:
Council President James O'Brien
Councilmember Deborah Bialowarczuk
" James Failace
" Jack Fazekas
" William Feingold
Noted absent was Mayor Peter J. Sica.
Also noted present was Borough Attorney Robert A. Hedesh.
Mailed to The Home News and Tribune, The Star Ledger and posted on
the bulletin board on May 14, 1996.
The purpose ofthis meeting is to discuss the school board budget.
Council President O'Brien asked if anyone had any suggestions.
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Councilmember Failace said he talked to the Mayor on the phone and told
him that he thought $250,000 was too much. He feels that we don't have
a right as a Council, to unduly tie the hands of the Board of Education in
their negotiations. He said he understood the law that was passed the
other day as far as the steps go. Basically, that law only says that the
teachers will not get their steps if a contract has not been signed. In the
past they got them. The steps have always been absolutely negotiable.
They didn't take that away. What they said was you don't get the steps if
you haven't signed a contract. He said that means to him and the people
he has talked to is that the teachers are more mandated to negotiate
because now they are not going to get any money. They can sit back and
say they are going to hold off on this and wait because they are still
getting their steps. That tells him that something that is already negotiable
is still negotiable. You can't get the steps until you have signed the
contract. He said he didn't think we had a right to tie their hands. That's
something that is negotiable and that is something that is up to them and
not up to us to tell them what they can negotiate. He said he told the
Mayor he would vote for $100,000 and that's it. He feels that Custodial
would stay $50,000. The information he got on legal fees. He spoke to
the Mayor today and all the cuts are conjecture.
MAY 16, 1996
INFORMAL MEETING
PRESENT
STATDlENT OF
MEETING NOTICE
PURPOSE
DISCUSSION
School Board
Budget
~1AY 16, 1996
School Board
Budget Can't.
Councilmember Failace said to say you're not going to have X amount of
dollars in legal fees, maybe you are and maybe you're not, that's true. The
lighting program is contractual. They have to do that. They are doing it
building by building. It's an all or nothing deal. He doesn't see where you can
take $20,000 from there. If you want to take the $100,000 and spread it
through there, fine. He believes that there is money in custodial and clerical
staff, so his suggestion to the Mayor was $50,000 Custodial, $35,000 Clerical
Staff On insurance, all though we don't have the buildings we still have to
insure them, not as much as we did, but the insurance on the new buildings is
going up approximately $27,000. That's a guesstimate, because they don't
have their new numbers coming in. Instead of $45,000, he says $15.000. So
that would be $35,000 in Clerical, $50,000 in Custodial and $15,000 in
Insurance.
Councilmember Bialowarczuk said her suggestion is $250,000 after she
looked at everything again. She's not happy with $100,000. $200,000 would
be more like it. It bothers her when Councilmember Failace said we are tying
the hands of the School Board. The point of the matter is the people in town
are our first obligation. The people and the residents of the Borough of
Carteret. How big of a hit can they take? The Council is holding to a strict
budget. The tax hike to the people in town is going to be something that they
cannot take. Everybody runs around saying how many houses are up for sale,
well, how many more homes will be put up for sale? How many more homes
are going to go into foreclosure? These are our elderly people here in town.
With a $200,000 cut we are not taking away anything from the students
because the fact of the matter is the students only see 20% of that budget, if
they see any of it at all. 80% goes into teachers salaries. She said she has
children in school and she knows what they get and what they don't get. She
is appalled at the books they bring home. Obviously, the money hasn't been
sunk into new books. Her daughter brought a book home on the Constitution
that was so old, torn apart, black magic marker through it and this is what
they are handing her. The teachers are getting 80% of that budget. Her taxes
are paying for books that look like trash. The School Board simply says for
the children. We are not talking here "for the children". We're talking about
monies built into this budget to give out raises. Her concern is for what her
children bring home and for what's in that budget that doesn't belong there.
We know what's in our budget. We can sit down and explain to everybody
penny for penny what is in our Borough Budget. They can't. They cannot
and they will not do it. She looks at it another way also. We went to a
meeting with the School Board and she found it offensive that we look like we
are adversaries. If they would have put all their cards on the table in the
beginning, she wouldn't be so upset as she is now about it. She feels that there
has been a complete lack of honesty on their part as to why there is certain
money in certain accounts. What they are doing. Fourteen people are laid-
off. They got rid of every shop in Carteret High School. There's no Wood
Shop, no Mechanical Drawing, nothing. That's all been wiped away. That's
gone, but we upped the budget amount. It's not fair. We've got a large group
of Senior Citizens in this town that can't take a $100 or $200 tax increase this
year. She doesn't feel she is tying the hands of the School Board. She feels
she is helping the people that she promised she would do a good job for. That
she would look out for them as Borough residents and keep taxes stable. 2
That includes school taxes because when they voted it down, it comes to the
Council and we are supposed to look at it and be rational about it and fair.
Not to the Board of Education, but to the people who are paying taxes in this
town.
'--
MAY 16, 1996
Councilmember Failace said he agrees with her 100%.
School Board
Budget Can't.
Councilmember Bialowarczuk said $100,000 is not going to help the
people in Carteret.
Councilmember Failace said that doesn't mean he has to agree with that
number. It's going to help them half as much as $200,000.
Councilmember Bialowarczuk said not half as much It should be more
than $200,000.
Councilmember Failace said he didn't see anybody else go there, but he
went to the School Board to get the numbers months ago. '
Councilmember Bialowarczuk said she had all the numbers and she
doesn't have to advertise that she has them and she doesn't have to tell
him.
She said he wrote his letter that we were all new at this, well, she is not
new at this. She went through it all last year.
Councilmember Failace then asked Councilmember Bialowarczuk why
when he asked for a meeting with the Finance Committee....
Councilmember Bialowarczuk said he is doing exactly what she knew he
would do.
Councilmember Failace asked if that was why she didn't want to come up
with any recommendations to him.
Councilmember Bialowarczuk said she didn't have to. She said her loyalty
is to the people of the Borough of Carteret, not him.
Councilmember Failace said does she mean to tell him that as a member
of the Finance Committee she doesn't have to......
Councilmember Bialowarczuk said he says one thing in one place and he
does something some place else.
Councilmember Failace asked what she meant by that. He had no idea
what she is talking about. Evidently she doesn't.
Councilmember Bialowarczuk said she knows exactly what she is doing
and always has.
Councilmember Failace said she is telling us that we are allowed to tie the
hands and go in..
3
Councilmember Bialowarczuk said that has nothing to do with it. The
people said NO.
Councilmember Failace and Bialowarczuk had some words.
At approximately 7:15 P.M., Mayor Sica was noted present.
MAY 16, 1996
School Board
Budget Can't.
Mayor Sica asked Councilmember Failace ifhe had a proposal?
Councilmember Failace said he did.
Borough Attorney Hedesh asked if he had where he wanted to cut and if he
had the account numbers.
Councilmember Failace said he would find them. He said:
Insurance - 1100026520 $15,000
Custodial- 1100026100 $50,000
Clerical - 11000240105 $35,000
Mayor Sica asked Pat Crilley if two more people retired last night?
Mr. Crilley said yes. A teacher and a Vice-Principal. The Vice-Principal was
the one that was being moved down. He said both were actually moving
down.
Mayor Sica asked if the were going to be replaced or eliminate those
positions.
Mr. Crilley said he wasn't sure. He assumes they have to be replaced.
Mayor Sica asked Councilmember Failace if he was proposing $100,000 in
cuts.
Councilmember Failace said yes.
Mayor Sica said he didn't understand how he arrived at $100,000 in cuts when
they know for a fact that 15 people are being laid-off automatically. Forget
about their money, per se, just their fringe benefits aren't reflected anywhere
in that budget. If you take $7,500 for hospitalization costs and times it by 14,
you're talking about a considerable amount of money.
Councilmember Failace said he went through it over and over.
Mayor Sica said there is no way you're going to see that difference in the
premium cost unless you see the premium. They put an arbitrary number in
there for hospitalization. Just like we do. We don't know exactly what that
hospitalization cost is going to be until they give us our run factors. The same
way with insurance. We are talking about $15,000 reduction in insurance.
When, in essence, we have a lot less of a liability there. We know for a fact
that they are negotiating like we did. That's one of the suggestions he made
to them last year. Let's start looking at these insurances. Let's start getting
other agencies in here, not lock ourselves into one and negotiate. They are
going to get premiums that are considerably lower. The risk factor is
considerably lower. One year we had 7 schools in the risk factor, counting the
one on Terminal Avenue. The next year we had 6 schools in the risk factor.
This year we are only going to have 4 schools in the risk factor. Our liability 4
is cut by one third He is not saying if there premium the year before was
$327,000, that you are arbitrarily going to take $108,500 as a decrease.
That's not going to happen. Somewhere along the line there is going to be a
savings and not $15,000. Cutting $15,000 is not even the increase they put
in there.
Councilmember Failace said right. Twenty Seven in there.
Mayor Sica said there is $27,000 in there on top of $327,000 bringing it
up to $354,000. If you eliminate your risk factor, there's a lot more
money in there. The reason he is asking for these three line items is
because, he guarantees it, when negotiations come up we are going to see
raises given and this is one of the three areas that money is going to come
from, in addition to other areas he explained the other night.
Councilmember Failace said he knows they talked about it.
Mayor Sica said the thing is he would not cut one penny out of this
budget, if the Board of Education is willing to commit to using their
savings to better the High School. To do the repairs to the High School
that are necessary. We can't get that commitment.
Councilmember Failace said he agreed with the Mayor 100%.
Mayor Sica said if that be the case. If they are not willing to make that
commitment, and this is for publication, we have committed to a zero
increase in our budget and he defies anyone to show him where there is
money in our budget to give anybody a raise There isn't. The only way
people can get a raise in this city is if we lose people. If we have to
decrease the employment. That's the position the Board of Education
should be taking. As the New Jersey Supreme Court just hold, he
economic conditions change. The incentive rates, the increment raises
cannot be given ten years in advance, because the economic conditions
change. In the city ofCarteret the economic conditions have taken a nose
dive. He doesn't mean by lack of bringing in new industry because no one
has been more progressive than the city of Carteret in the past three or
four years in bringing in new industries and jobs. He is saying the
econOlnic conditions have changed because the per capita income of the
citizens of Carteret is far lower than what it was. He said a guy came the
other day, in church, asking him for a job. He sent him out for a job and
in order for him to get ajob he has to take a $13,000 cut in pay. That's
all that's out there. What about that poor guy. He can't make it on what
he is making now. He said he was looking at something very interesting
in the paper. He asked if they knew what we pay the town librarian? He
said we pay her dirt cheap, like forty some thousand. Do they know what
the High School Librarian makes? Over $70,000. He talked to one of the
priests from the parochial schools. They operate one of their whole
schools with one janitor. They operate their whole school with one
secretary. They operate K-8 with 8 teachers based on 250 students. If
you take 8 teachers based on 250 students, the public schools have 10
times the amount of students that the parochial school has. It should be
80 teachers He is not saying they can do with 80 teachers, but maybe we
could do with a lot less than 200 and some teachers. He said
Councilmember O'Brien is in a parochial school.
5
Councilmember O'Brien said he was. He said he understood where the
Mayor was coming from in regard to teacher's salaries. There is not a
person on this list, including janitors and clerical that did not make more
than he did in a parochial school. He has been there for seven years, but
he chose to teach there The School Board is autonomous. He doesn't
see how the Council can tell them how to negotiate.
MY 16, 1996
School Board
Budget Con't.
t1AY 16, 1996
School Board
Budget Con't.
Councilmember O'Brien said have a right to negotiate any way they want.
If we cut steps we are tying their hands.
Mayor Sica said we are not telling them how to negotiate. We are not cutting
the steps. We didn't do it. He asked where he got that from. One of his
suggestions was based on the Supreme Court decision that specifically stated
that economic conditions change and nobody should be able to bind a School
Board's hands. Negotiating on a year to year, two year or three year basis in
order to meet the economic changes whether they be up or down What they
did is they tied their own hands. The Supreme Court has now given them the
ability to go back to those teachers and tell them the economic conditions in
the city ofCarteret have changed so drastically that the $5,000 or $6,000 raise
this year is economically not possible based on the per capita income the
community is able to pay.
Councilmember O'Brien asked if one of the suggestions Monday night was to
cut $100,.000 out of the steps?
Mayor Sica said that's correct.
Councilmember O'Brien said that is something that is negotiable.
Mayor Sica said fine. Negotiate it down that way.
Councilmember O'Brien said if we tell them we are cutting $100,000 out of
the steps, we are telling them how to negotiate.
Borough Attorney Hedesh said that is the intent of the statute. They can
negotiate, but the Governing Body has the right to give them the tool. You
have the power of the purse. That was the intent of the statute.
Mayor Sica asked the Borough Attorney to research if in fact, they reduce the
budget and the School Board appeals it to Trenton, or if they attempt to take
out courtesy busing, then the city of Carteret, we have not struck our budget
yet and it can be revised, should be prepared to step in and take over the
courtesy busing. As an expense to the city. He thinks we can do it.
Councilmember Failace said that is what Edison is doing.
Mayor Sica said the Board is trying to use that as a club over our heads. We
are going to take that club away from them and tell them the city will pay for
courtesy busing. Just like we pay for the school crossing guards. That's a
direct function of the school, but we pay for it. We can pay for the courtesy
busing. Then that club is taken away from the Board of Education. They
went all around to the parochial schools telling them that if we take any
money out of the budget, they will eliminate courtesy busing. That is not our
intent Our intent is to limit the amount of money that can be given out as
raises, because as we sit here and tell our employees that the public no longer
can afford to pay this kind of money, the Board of Education should look at
it the same way. 6
Councilmember Failace said he is hoping that is the way they are going to go.
Mayor Sica said live in hope and die hopeless.
Councilmember Failace said he understood exactly what the Mayor was
saying.
Mayor Sica said this cuts going to happen. He said if his numbers are
correct and that insurance bill comes in $50,000 less, does he think they
are going to leave it there and say to the citizens next year not to worry
they have $50,000 they are not going to spend. That's not going to
happen.
Councilmember Failace said they are sitting with $70,000 in surplus now.
Mayor Sica said it's obvious that there is a lot more surplus in the budget.
He said Mr. Failace is saying there is $100,000 that he is willing to cut
that they didn't say was in there. He said if $100,000 is what the
Council's feelings are, that is what they will look at tomorrow. Or, maybe
he will have other suggestions tomorrow.
Borough Attorney Hedesh said if anybody has any suggestion for
tomorrow to please tell him.
Mayor Sica said he wanted a legal opinion on taking over courtesy busing.
Borough Attorney Hedesh said he won't be able to get that for tomorrow.
Mayor Sica said okay. He feels that he is on firm enough ground to make
a statement that ifthey eliminate courtesy busing the city will pick it up.
Borough Attorney Hedesh said the city can pick it up, based on what he
has read regarding Edison. He said if somebody has other proposals to
get them to him. He is leaving tomorrow, but will be in his office in the
morning.
Upon MMS&C, by Councilmembers Failace and Bialowarczuk and
unanimous affirmative vote of the full Council present, there being no
further business or discussion, the meeting was adjourned at
approximately 7:25 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
~...-.
c.
7
t1AY 16, 1996
School Board
Budget Can't.
ADJOURNED
MAY 16, 1996
INFORMAL
MEETING
8