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HomeMy Public PortalAbout1996/05/13 MAY 13, 1996 An Informal Meeting of the Mayor and Council of the Borough of Carteret was called to order by Mayor Peter 1. Sica on Monday, May 13, 1996 at 7:00 P.M., Council Office, Municipal Building, 61 Cooke Avenue, Carteret, New Jersey. INFORMAL MEETING -" Upon individual roll call, the following were noted present: ROLL CALL Councilmember Deborah Bialowarczuk " James Failace " Jack Fazekas " William Feingold " James O'Brien Also noted present were Borough Attorney Robert A. Hedesh and Borough Treasurer Patrick 1. DeBlasio. . Mailed to The Home News and Tribune, The Star Ledger and posted on the bulletin board on May 10, 1996. STATEMENT OF MEETING NOTICE To discuss school budget and local municipal budget. PURPOSE Mayor Sica said he was sure everyone at the meeting the other night heard the comments. He said he did receive some of the information he requested from the Board of Education. He didn't receive information pertaining to insurance. He said they can anticipate what the insurance will go down, just by knowing what the Borough's went down and there is one less school. He did get a copy of their legal fees. He said he thinks they can cut legal fees by at least $25,000. He said the attorney gets a salary of $40,000. He charges for every thing else he did, so what is the $40,000 for? We have spent, in the past two years, $38,000 fighting this Special Needs District and we lost, so we don't have to worry about fighting that anymore. That's a saving right there. Mangieri's challenge to the Board was $10,000. That's out. He read "Title Clearance" and then said there must have been a problem with the title on one of the schools. That's out. With those three things alone, there is a $20,000 reduction. He said the Board of Education has to find out what that $40,000 is for and utilize some of that. $40,000 can't be to attend 12 or 24 meetings a year. That's out of hand. This is one of the places we can look for some kind of reduction. $25,000 there shouldn't hurt them at all. It wouldn't hurt the education system in the slightest. He asked if anyone else had areas where they think they can cut? Do they want him to go through what he thinks DISCUSSION School Budget t1AY 13, 1996 C"'" School Budget Can't. Councilmember Failace said he looked through it and he didn't see a whole lot and would rather the Mayor tell him what he thinks. Mayor Sica said under Miscellaneous Expenses should be a lot less when there are two less plants. They don't have Nathan Hale School or Washington School anymore. He said he doesn't see a reason for an increase there. He said he could take a $10,000 cut out of that just by virtue of miscellaneous expenses. It's so broad it has to be distributed between the six operations they had. If they reduce the six operations to four operations, then there should be some kind of a cut somewhere in the miscellaneous expense. Councilmember Failace asked which line item that was? He wasn't talking about the Other Expense. Mayor Sica said no. This is the line item for miscellaneous expenses. He said he also feels that with insurance, if you are eliminating at least 1 Y2 items out of the six item plan, and are spending $300,000 on insurance for six, that's $50,000 each. If you're eliminating 1 \1" that's $75,000. He thinks that $45,000 can come out of insurance alone. Councilmember Failace asked what the increase was for the new schools? Mayor Sica said $27,000. He thinks $45,000 can come out of insurance. Mayor Sica said by his calculations between custodians, groundkeepers, stock clerks, etc., we have at least five people per school. We have all these contracted maintenance services and everything else. We know for a fact that one of the janitors has put in for his retirement and will not be coming back. When we had the Special Education School on Terminal Avenue we had a janitor there We don't have that building anymore. That's another one we were insuring on liability. We don't have that, we won't have Nathan Hale and we are not going to have Washington. $50,000 out of janitors is not unrealistic. Mayor Sica said "Cleaning, Repair and Maintenance Services". This must be things that people are hired to do. Again, if we have 2 or 1 \I, less buildings, he doesn't think $25,000 out of there will hurt one bit. Clerical Staff - Mayor Sica said if we are eliminating all of these other schools, then $50,000 cut in clerical staff is nothing. There are five people in the Board Office alone. We have at least three secretarial positions in each of the schools. There are 15 secretaries, not counting the Board's. If you divide four into 15 its 31h. Almost 4 secretaries for each school. He said he doesn't care how much work they have, it doesn't require 4 secretaries for each school. So $50,000 can come out of there. Mayor Sica said they have a lighting program of $70,000 to change the lights like we want to do in the city of Carteret. We've taken the approach that we wiìl do the Police Station first to see how it works. We just can't buy 2 everything in one year, especially in a year like it is now when everyone is hurting. There is $70,000 in there to do that. We can cut $20,000 out of there and do one less at the present time. If you take into consideration that Columbus School is going to be torn down and the part that is being saved is a relatively new part. They're not going to save that much money in electricity there. ~. .~:;.,i~,~~<1i'j~..,. MAY 13, 1996 Mayor Sica said the same holds true for Minue School and Lincoln School. We don't have to do the old parts of those schools immediately. He said he is still leaving $50,000 there. School Budget Can't. Mayor Sica said the Board has been very remiss. Nathan Hale School should have been put up for sale four, five, six months ago and sold subject to. They are not even advertising it for sale yet. That means in June, when that school is closed for the last time, we are going to be sitting there with a school that could be generating tax revenues for the city and many thousands of dollars for the Board of Education. It could have been sold back in February and taken over in June. As it sits right now, we are going to have to insure it until they sell it. Mayor Sica said he had to differ with the Board of Education on using Washington School as Board Administrative Offices. They have six people in Washington School with a total square footage of30,000 square feet. What are six people going to do with that big school. How are we going to heat, light and everything else that big school with only six people sitting there He said he thought that was utterly ridiculous. } Mayor Sica said there was a law passed in Trenton last Thursday. That law says you cannot incumber the next school board for more than three years. For instance, when he asked the other night how much money there was in step raises. They said $280,000. He said it is illegal to give that $280,000. It has to all be renegotiated. He said you can not give out step increases for ten years. You can not give them out more than the contract expiration date, which is June. That means that $280,000 is back on the table. We don't have to give some of these exorbitant step increases. Looking at teachers, because they seem to be the ones that will get the most out of it, some teachers are going to get a $5,600 step increase. Going rrom $39,000 to $44,000, almost $45,000. This is insanity. When this law was fust passed about teachers, the starting salary was $18,500. Now some teachers are up to $70,000. We ¡;;an't keep going like this. He is telling them at least $200,000 of the $280,000 is geared strictly for teachers steps. $6,800 for Handicapped Teachers. Neurologically Impaired gets $11,000. Perceptually Impaired gets $5,000. Emotionally Disturbed gets $18,000. This is in the steps. Resource Room gets $6,500. This comes up to approximately $200,000. He said he thinks the Board of Education has to take an approach to that new law that just passed in Trenton and the Supreme Court affirmed that those steps have to be reduced drastically. We cannot afford to give out $200,000 in just step increases this year. The way we are asking for no increase on everything else, we should look to reduce that step increase by 50%. If there is $200,000 he perceives taking $100,000 out of that. If you total all his figures up it is $350,000 which can come out of this budget and not hurt the kids. If the teachers cooperate, $350,000 can come out of this budget and he is proposing $250,000. He will give them these line items, if the Council wishes and they adjust it accordingly. They can reduce or add what they think is necessary in those particular line items, where he doesn't know. They will probably put them in legal because that is the biggest contributor. He asked if anyone had any suggestions. Councilmember Failace said it was a bit high. He really worries that...... ~ MAY 13, 1996 School Budget Can't. Mayor Sica said let's go through them one at a time. Legal Services. Mayor Sica asked if he thought they could cut $25,000 out of that? Councilmember Failace said he understood what the Mayor was saying, but they went down $20,000 and he is saying another $25,000 on top of that. He said he didn't know what their anticipated expense was. Mayor Sica said you don't anticipate legal expenses. What happens with legal expenses you have a case, you have an expense. That's nothing something you know you are going to have. Councilmember Failace said you can only go by past history Mayor Sica said he went through the legal expenses and he sees things there that are obviously not going to be there next year. In physical year 1995-1996 they only spent $112,000. Councilmember Failace said that was actual. Mayor Sica said that is actual to date. $112,000 and they are asking for $140,000. Out of that $112,000, he is showing them things that he knows aren't going to be there next year. Councilmember Bialowarczuk said actually it's only a drop in the bucket. Especially if they sell Nathan Hale School and Washington School. That's mcome. Mayor Sica said it's $112,000 to date in the 1995-1996 budget year and he can pick out of there $17,000 - $18,000 that will not be there next year. $25,000 is nothing. you take 1/12 rrom $148,000. He is actually giving them more money next year then they spent this year. Councilmember Failace said he understood what the Mayor was saying. Mayor Sica asked ifhe wanted to increase the legal? He said they would go through it. He said they would go through it one at a time He is saying $25,000 here, does Councilmember Failace want to say something less? Councilmember Failace said this would only be through March probably. He said he didn't know ifthey had the rest of the expense for the rest ofthe year. Mayor Sica said he asked for up to date information and this is what they supplied him with Councilmember Failace said that it is not a full year, only nine months. Mayor Sica said this is the paper they supplied him with Friday. 4 Councilmember Failace said he understood what the Mayor was saying, but before they cut it that much they have to find out ifthat's the March number or what they anticipated through the end ofthe year. Mayor Sica asked him what he proposed to cut there? ,.'-,. . MAY 13, 1996 Councilmember Failace said $10,000. School Budget Con't. Mayor Sica said okay. Say $10,000 there. Miscellaneous Expenses - Mayor Sica said the only thing they can attribute there is that they have two less schools. Councilmember Failace asked if that meant they don't buy anything about the larger square footage. Mayor Sica said miscellaneous expense goes for new venetian blinds, shade, light bulbs, snow blower, etc. There are two less schools. We only have four schools vs. six schools. $10,000 is nothing. He asked what did Councilmember Failace want to take out of there. Councilmember Failace said don't say what he wants to take out. He is just trying to talk.... Mayor Sica asked if there was anybody rrom the Council has a number they want to take out of there. Councilmember Failace said he is just trying to talk it out and reason it out. Mayor Sica said so is he and he has done a considerable amount of work on it. He put a considerable amount of thought into it. Councilmember Failace said he is just worried that we really don't know, with the new schools, what all our expenses are going to be and then we will end up really short. He said the Mayor has a better handle on it they he does. Insurance - Mayor Sica said he didn't get supplied with that information. Based on their discussion with us, they are doing the same thing we did last year. They are going out and shopping it with four or five different insurance agencies. Plus, there are two, or at least 1 Y, less buildings that they have to carry liability insurance and boiler insurance. Boiler insurance is quite expensive. Knowing what we saved last year, he anticipates they will save at least that much this year. He had it at $45,000. He asked Councilmember Failace if he wanted to reduce it somewhat less than that. Borough Attorney Hedesh asked if that was the line item about $327,000. Mayor Sica said yes. He asked what it was the year before. Councilmember Failace said $307,000. Mayor Sica said $307 - $327, he asked for those papers and he didn't get them. He asked if anyone wanted to venture forth a number. Councilmember Failace said the reason he didn't was because he really didn't know the number. He knows we don't have that number, we should probably know that number. MAY 13, 1996 School Budget Can't. Mayor Sica told Mr. Failace he was there the other night when he asked her. He said we only have a certain amount of days to do this in. Councilmember Failace said that should be a number that they know, basically Mayor Sica said they say they are getting their new quotes in and they don't have to have their quotes in until June because their calendar ends in June. He said they have another month until they have to worry about it or at least twenty days before the quotes come in and they have to assign somebody. He is just going on past practices that the city did and he said if you take $307,000 and divide it by six is $50,000. He is only taking off for one school. He is not taking the reduction that should be realized rrom the school on Terminal Avenue and Washington School being reduced rrom a strong liability to a medium liability. That is why he only took $45,000. Councilmember Failace asked if the increase was $27,000 for the new schools? Mayor Sica said by taking $60,000 off and putting $27,000 back on, he is right at $45,000. He asked if they wanted to reduce it some more. Councilmember Failace said the total number is what scares him out of the whole thing. Mayor Sica said we would go through it and if they want to reduce it somewhat, they will reduce it somewhat. Councilmember Bialowarczuk asked Councilmember Failace if he ever (inaudible) Councilmember Failace said no. Councilmember Fazekas said he did reduce it. It came up to $350,000 and he lowered it to $250,000. Mayor Sica said he is leaving $100,00 in there right now, to play with. Councilmember Bialowarczuk said, like she said before, you have to remember that school has got to be sold. That's income. (Inaudible) if they put that school up for sale now, because it could have been done before and they would have had this money. That is their mistake. Councilmember Failace said that's okay. He understands that. Councilmember Bialowarczuk said why should the people in town suffer because they made this type of mistake. Let them get off their behinds, get the thing up for sale and let's roll already. Councilmember Failace said he understood what she was saying. 6 Councilmember Bialowarczuk said the people voted no on this budget so we have to make adjustments. , MAY 13, 1996 Councilmember Failace said he understood that, but if the people voted on the Municipal Budget they would vote no. School Budget Can't. Councilmember Bialowarczuk said that is not what we are discussing. We are discussing the school budget. Councilmember Failace said he understood. Councilmember Bialowarczuk said there is a building that is going to lay there that they could have sold and they didn't. She asked him why he was arraid to make the cut for some reason. Councilmember Failace said he was not afraid. He was afraid thaLof what we don't know. Councilmember Bialowarczuk said she could ask the question, because he is procrastinating here big time. Councilmember Failace said "I'm procrastinating?" Councilmember Bialowarczuk said ifhe was asking the Mayor to lower the numbers, then he should have a number in his head. Councilmember Failace said no, he is saying that the $250,000 is a big number to him and he worries about it. Mayor Sica said he showed where there was $350,000 and he is giving the Council the discretion or the school board the discretion to go down to $250,000. Councilmember Bialowarczuk said she didn't see where the School Board needs Washington School either. What do they need it for. How many more people are we adding that they need an entire building to house them. That's potential income. That would lower all our taxes. Mayor Sica said 5,000 square feet per person. Councilmember Bialowarczuk said that was ridiculous to have an entire building. Mayor Sica said his entire house isn't that big. Councilmember Bialowarczuk said that is what is called looking down the road and we have to look down the road. They are not, so we have to. Councilmember Failace asked only 6 people in Washington School? Mayor Sica said who else do they have there. Councilmember Bialowarczuk told Councilmember Failace that you have to prepare for the future. If you don't you're in trouble. They didn't. Mayor Sica asked Mr. Crilley if there were any classes going in there? Mr. Crilley said no classes, but there will be other people. MAY 13, 1996 School Budget Can't. Mayor Sica asked what other people? Mr. Crilley said supplies All the supplies are being centralized into that building. He said he wasn't sure, but he thinks some of the Department Heads, the Special Services, a lot more than six people. He said the main thing is the supplies. He said anybody you remove rrom that building, you remove a classroom. He asked them to keep that in mind. Mayor Sica said if you move one person from a building.. . Mr. Crilley, you would have to put them some place else. Where you will put them is in a classroom. There is nothing left. Mayor Sica said that was good. Put them in classrooms. Mr. Crilley said that takes space away from the kids. Mayor Sica said they could take some people rrom that administrative building and put them teaching. Mr. Crilley said he was only telling them the facts. Councilmember Bialowarczuk said so we made all these changes in Washington School to give everybody their own office space. She said that wasn't necessary before. Mr. Crilley said right now supplies are in the bottom of Columbus School, the whole bottom floor. Councilmember Bialowarczuk said we are making the other schools larger. Mayor Sica said he would leave it at $45,000 unless some one comes up with a number. Janitors - Mayor Sica said he thinks his scenario with janitors is overboard. We have janitor kill here. This is not losing anybody a job. He is not saying to lay-off one janitor. He is saying we are not going to hire any. One is retired. We have already lost a half of one with monies in there, so he is not cutting any janitor's jobs. He is just cutting dollars. He asked if they understood what he is saying. He hasn't said to lay one janitor off because in essence, we don't need one for Nathan Hale. He retired as of June 1 st. The half janitors were never rehired. $50,000 here is nothing. He said to remember he hasn't touched hospitalization. He is just using salaries here. That has to stay at $50,000. Cleaning, Repair & Maintenance Service - Mayor Sica said if we are going to be eliminating one whole school and he takes and divide the total amount of dollars that was used in that by six and cross out one, $25,000 is nothing. He asked if anybody had any other suggestions. 8 Councilmember Failace said if you cut that out, again, we have larger schools. He said he didn't' understand. He knows there is less of a space, but he didn't' think you just take that number and say it's 5,000 square feet and we don't' have this and we will do that. ~ Mayor Sica said he left plenty in there. There's plenty cushion in there. He said divide the total amount of cleaning services and maintenance repairs by the six schools they had and it comes up to about $40,000. He is leaving $15,00 in it. He said he is being very conservative with that. Clerical Staff _ Mayor Sica said he can't understand if they are going to have to less schools and spending a couple hundred thousand dollars on computers and everything is computerized, why that stays so high. 3 y, secretaries for each school is more than sufficient. He said they should go down to three. He is looking at a minimal savings there of $50,000. Again, not touching into the hospitalization, which in itself represents $14,000 savings, if you were to release one or release two. If you release two it's $14,000. If you release one it's $7,000. Councilmember Failace said he is only playing the Devil's Advocate. He said Mr. Panigrosso was explaining the new Medicare and Medicaid requirements. He showed him a stack of papers of what has to be filled out now. It's a whole new ball game. That was the explanation for not taking one person away. He had questioned it. Mayor Sica said they are talking 3 Y, people for each school. He said you would have to have somebody come in with a medical report 8 times a day, every day, five days a week, 365 days a year. 1 Councilmember Failace said he didn't think it was medical. Mayor Sica said he didn't care what it was. Did he realize how much work is required for some of these things. It sounds like it's a lot, but it happens once a month. It's like our monthly payroll report. It's different when you have to have something up in Nathan Hale School, but you are not going to have Nathan Hale School anymore. You're not going to have Washington School anymore. He said again, the same thing holds true now in Washington School. He can't understand the size of that school to be used just for Board Offices. Even if you want to put supplies in there. He can't understand that. He said they are talking about $50,000 just to renovate Washington School for Board Offices. They are talking about another $25,000 just to renovate Lincoln School for Middle School Offices. Councilmember Failace asked if the Mayor was recommending they sell Washington School too? 9 Mayor Sica said he is recommending that they sell Nathan Hale School and possibly Washington School, unless they can come up with a better reason to keep Washington School. He highly recommended that Nathan Hale School should have been sold in February pending the last kid leaving in June. Now we are stuck with a school that we still have to maintain. Still have to carry insurance on until such time we sell it. That was stupid. We could have sold it and had the money in the bank today Could have had the money in the bank in March or April. It could have been taken over on the closing of the school. We are talking about $400,000 _ $500,000 for that school. Whatever it is, that money would have been in our pocket in June or February, according to how the sale would have been structured. As it sits now, if we even advertise to sell it, we can't sell it until July or August. We have an unnecessary expense. MAY 13, 1996 School Budget Can't. ~1AY 13, 1996 School Budget Can't. Mayor Sica said we knew we were going to close Nathan Hale School when we gave out the contracts to build new schools. Why wasn't this done already? Mayor Sica said the other thing is the Step Program with the teachers. He thinks that some of those steps are insanity. It's quite obvious that the New Jersey Supreme Court felt the same way. Councilmember Failace asked the Mayor if he was saying with the law that was passed....... Mayor Sica read "thus the practice of automatically paying the increment would limit the Board's ability to respond to the ever changing economic conditions of a district school and the needs to cut budget growth will face serious problems." He said that says in other words, when it's time to bite the apple, these guys can't hold onto the apple, they can only take a little bite. Councilmember Failace asked if the teachers now, that have received X amount of steps to this point, do they keep that? Mayor Sica said that is theirs, but the $200,000 in steps that is coming up in June, are negotiable right now. The economics are not there. The economics weren't there when they gave them the steps and they sure are not there now. Again, if you take the per capita income of the city ofCarteret, no way can we afford to pay that. That is what the decision by the Supreme Court is affirming. It says it no uncertain terms " will limit the Board's ability to respond ever changing economic conditions". If this Board of Education takes that sentence in its entirety, they can reduce those increments because of the ever changing economic conditions each year. We cannot afford to give someone a $6,000 or $5,000 raise on top of a raise, if they get a raise. Nobody from the Board wants to concede that there is money in here for a raise. Whether it be 1,2 or 10%, we don't know because we can't get that answer. Borough Attorney Hedesh said the other day when the Board's Attorney advised the Board that they had to give the steps out, although she was technically wrong, at that point in time she couldn't have know she was wrong because it was just released at 4:00 P.M. that afternoon. She was telling them what the law was as she knew it, but the Supreme Court changed the rules last Wednesday. Mayor Sica said Section 4.1 therefore was designed to prevent local boards from using the budget process to avoid salary schedules that are already agreed to in a collective bargaining negotiation. They put this in there so that Boards of Education in the future rights cannot be usurped. He asked Mr. Parisi how long he was on the board? Mr. Frank Parisi said two years. 10 Mayor Sica said this was done long before him. They usurped his right to negotiate in good faith because these steps are put in there. That's what this law says. /' MAY 13, 1996 r'"":~ Borough Attorney Hedesh said he confirmed with Mr. Panigrosso that they are at the end of a three year contract. If they were at the end of a two year contract, this law would not apply. The court said the law specifically says they can only negotiate one, two or three year contracts. By giving the steps automatically, even though there is not a negotiating contract, in effect what the board is doing is giving a four year contract and it is in violation of State law. The Education Law limits contracts to three years. School Board Can't. Mayor Sica said the board argued one thing and the Supreme Court said they rtject that argument. The statutory reading offered by the union does not comport with NJ.S.A. 18A:29-4.1, is plain need. Whenever called the contract or terms or conditions of employment the results of paying increments after the third year is that the provision of the contract become binding for the fourth year. Under plain language of the statute, the binding nature of this contract cannot extend into the fourth year. In other words, he can't be forced, a new board guy, to eat ten years down the road. He has to have the right to say something and he is put on the board to make his decision based on the economic conditions of today. He shouldn't have to sit on that board and be stuck with this because someone did it five years ago when everybody was riding high on the hog. Borough Attorney Hedesh said he is not criticizing what the Board Attorney told them because at 6:00 P.M. no one could have know what had happened at 4:00 PM. in Trenton. She was 100% right at that time. Mayor Sica said he strongly urges that be reduced by $100,000 He said he is sure, and he is not chastising the board that put that in there, maybe at that time the economic feasibility giving those steps were there. Based on the knowledge of that time, they decided that was a fair and equitable distribution of money in the year 1996-1997 Unfortunately, the economics of not just Carteret, but the State of New Jersey and the United States has turned around. It has gone down. The per capita income of Carteret is down. Therefore, the economic conditions don't support that type of a raise that was negotiated three years back. The board is in a very strong position right now. He hopes the board runs with that position. He is giving the board ample opportunity, by indicating in our letter to them of where we think cuts can be made, of cutting $100,000 out ofthat. That in itself gives them a bargaining point with the union He said he heard what he said and we will meet again on Wednesday to vote on it. Borough Attorney Hedesh said he and Patrick need to know what to write. Mayor Sica said they will know it Wednesday. He is giving them time to do it. We'll do it on Thursday then. 11 Councilmember Failace said to meet on Wednesday and vote on Thursday. The Assistant Clerk stated that we need 48 hours notice for the meeting. NAY 13, 1996 School Board Con' t. Mayor Sica said we will meet on Thursday prior to the Council Meeting and he will call a Special Meeting for Friday to memorialize it. Friday is the 17th. That gives us plenty of time. We will meet here at 7:00 P.M. on Thursday. Friday we will memorialize it at 6:-00 P.M Mayor Sica said if anybody can come up with better suggestions where to cut this thing, it's alright with him We have done a stand up job on the municipal budget. We're looking at a $30.00 increase and if you are going to go with a $30.00 increase and a $\30.00 increase in the school budget, there's something wrong. It should hold somewhere near the same. Granted, there is a massive school program going on and we have to pay something for that. He wholeheartedly agrees with that. If it would double the tax increase because we are building better schools, he wouldn't cut it a cent. - Councilmember O'Brien said he had a school function to attend on Friday, so he might not be here He asked if they could have it done for the Council Meeting on Thursday. Mayor Sica said we can't get it ready in time. Borough Attorney said they have to know what lines. For the resolution to pass it has to specifically spell out the line items and account numbers in which the cuts come from. There is no possible way to put it into writing without knowing the numbers. Ifhe knew them now, he could put it in by Thursday, but nobody seems to be telling him what to write. ADJOURNED Upon MMS&C, by Councilmembers Bialowarczuk and Feingold and unanimous affirmative vote of the full Council present, there being no further business or discussion, the meeting was adjourned at approximately 7:50 P.M. Respectfully submitted, SUSAN EJACKL Assistant Municipa 12