Loading...
HomeMy Public PortalAbout1996/05/08 An Informal Meeting was held by the Mayor and Council of the Borough of Carteret on May S, 1996, 7:30 P.M., Lincoln School, Carteret Avenue, Carteret, New Jersey. The following were noted present: Mayor Peter 1. Sica Councilmember Bialowarczuk " Failace " Fazekas " Feingold " O'Brien Also noted present was Louis Panigrosso, Joseph Torre, Janet Santoro and Michael Raguseo from the Board of Education. Mailed to The Home News & Tribune, The Star Ledger and posted on the bulletin board on May 3, 1996. Discuss School Budget. Mayor Sica said he has a list of eight (8) questions given to Janet Santoro by Councilmember Failace. Janet Santoro said she turned the questions over to Mr. Torre. Mr. Panigrosso said on question number one, they need a secretary's staff. He said in the Middle School the amount of secretary work generated they will need an extra person and rather than hire an additional person they will just transfer one of the two from the areas school, of the two that will be shut down. The other explanation is the secretary, we have been handed by the state and he commented that he did not know if they were familiar with the semi initiative, they may have read about it, Special Education (inaudible) the State of New Jersey is able to get funds trom the Federal Government for services that are provided to students in local districts. The argument that came up with Superintendents of local districts was the state gets 85% of that share and the district gets 50%. However the state mandated that certain districts must do this because of the fact that they have a significam percentage the people that are on Medicaid. 1 MAY 15, 1996 INFORMAL MEETING May II, 1996 PRESENf SfATEMENf OF MEErI~ OOITCE PURPOSE OF WE MEErING DIsœSSlOO MAY B, 1996 DISQJSSlOO <Xm'INUED Mr. Panigrosso said Carteret was one of those districts that was cited and it was mentioned that if we did not go this process, that we would possibly have state ai~with help, therefore he had to take on this Medicaid issue. We are getting money, to the tune of 15 cents on one (I) dollar. We do not have any idea of what monies we were realized, but we hope it will at least pay for the people that have to do all these records and it is quite intense. What they have done this year is he has added on a duty to one of his administrators and made that person coordinator in charge and gotten hopefully one (I) secretary out of the Special Services Department in September that will spend half the time with Medicaid initiative half the time helping out the Special Services Department which is in need of extra secretarial help so that is the reason why (inaudible) a secretary, because actually we needed to add. In effect we have saved the adding by condensing and taking those (2) secretaries and relocating them. Mayor Sica said he would like them to turn to B (inaudible). Mr. Panigrosso said what happened here in as we rearrange and according to where people (inaudible) he thinks that was explained as a taxment severed or item severed. There were people, according to the new gap, we are constantly changing where the state is telling us (inaudible). Financially by open bid we reduced from one area and just put it with the other areas so actually it was a wash and he thinks that was eXplained in number seven (7) . Most people should go in (inaudible) Administrative Business or (inaudible). Where we put it was the of no consequence to us because the state was telling us to make the change and that is the reason why we made the change and it was of no increase or no decrease. Mayor Sica said that is not what it says here. Mr. Joseph Torre spoke saying there is twenty-one (21) people currently in the Clerical Staff. Next year fifteen (15) of those clerical staff will be remaining as clerical positions. Six (6) of those people will be residing in the Business Office. We looked at under current who the Administrative Business numbers recorded as zero, under current. That is not true. Those people had to be moved (inaudible) that six. Mayor Sica said that is only six (6). It is not twenty one (21) because if you look back to ...... Mr. Torre said to go back to the Extneded Salary Account on Secretaries. He described where the secretaries were and who they were. Mayor Sica said the Administrative Offices will have six (6) people. Mr. Torre said yes. - Mayor Sica said they have fifteen (15) and asked in how many schools. 2 MAY II, 1996 Mr. Torre said they four (4) schools plus the Administrative Office. DIsaJSSlOO romNUED Mayor Sica said you are going to take four (4) people into (inaudible). Mr. Panigrosso said also in Special Services. Mayor Sica said he has fifteen (15) clerical people, you have four (4) schools, that is four (4) people into sixteen (16). Mr. Panigrosso said but he don't think you would say per school because we have secretaries assigned but they are not assigned per said school. For example they have two (2) secretaries in the High School and we will have two (2) in the Middle School and one (I) each in each of the Elementary Schools, so that is six (6). Now you have to turn around and break out the ones that we have in our Special Services area, Library, etc. etc. Mayor Sica said they had separate (inaudible) for Library. Mr. Panigrosso said yes. He said of those that Mr. Torre would be offering you take (inaudible) assigned to each school. Mr. Torre said the Library Secretaries even get (inaudible). Mayor Sica said he understood they could put them whereever they want. He said they have an average of four (4) clerical staff for each entity you have. Whether you have three (3) years and five (5) years it doesn't matter. You still have fifteen (15) divided by four (4) that comes up to four (4) . Mr. Panigrosso said if you take Special Services, that is the whole district. He asked how they would assign the secretary in Special Service at a school. Mayor Sica said he is not saying that. He didn't say that. What he said to you is that also takes care off our (4) schools but then still have an average of four (4) people. Whether you have one doing the work for everybody it doesn't matter. He has said it doesn't matter if you have five (5) in this school because one of them is doing Special Needs and three (3) in another school, the average is four (4). Mr. Panigrosso said that is not per school. If they are at different offices it is not saying we have an average offour (4) secretaries at Carteret High School. We only have two (2) secretaries. Mayor Sica said the average is four (4) clerical people for each building they maintain. He then said something inaudible. Mr. Panigrosso said he would really would like to show us what they are doing with the state money, that 15%. It is mind boggling an amount of work is coming out of our Social Services. An illuminous amount of (inaudible) is being done and Special Services is something that he thinks requires more than two (2) or three (3). 3 MAY 8, 1996 DI5æSSlOO romNUED Mr. Panigrosso said that are doing it on shifts and hopefully we will get in another half because of our reduction. Councilmember Failace asked about the custodians. Mr Torre said the custodians have twenty six (26) people. He said they basically have them in six (6) buildings now. He spoke on this a little and he said notices had gone out that there is a possibility of reduction but right now ¡¡ley are sticking with what they have. He spoke about the Lunch Program and Cafeteria and that they may be going to a full day Kindergarten, which would mean much more children eating in the cafeteria and they don't want to cut themself short with custodians. Mayor Sica questioned when one of the custodians put in for their retirement and how long had he been out. Mr Panigrosso said he was out sick and was operated on and he put in for retirement and was accepted at the April Meeting. Mr. Crilley said he didn't think we accepted his retirement. Disability but not retirement. Mr. Mangieri said we accepted his retirement but not his extra money. He said we didn't do a separate Sick Leave. Mayor Sica asked now long has he been out prior to his (inaudible). Mr. Panigrosso said about January. Mayor Sica commented that they had gotten along without him pretty good. Mr. Panigrosso said a maintenance man took his place. Mayor Sica said when they have one less building say to operate then they might not need a maintenance man. Mr. Ton·e said the biggest maintenance will be at the High School. Mayor Sica said they are modernizing the three (3) existing schools that we are still going to have. A lot more energy efficient, a lot more efficient operation and there is going to be theoretically one and one halfless buildings that have to be maintained on a day to day basis. Washington School becoming the Board Office he is sure is not going to take the maintenance that it takes for four or five hundred kids running around in the school. Nathan Hale School is going to be completely (inadible). So you are now getting along with a half a time person that you don't have anymore and a full time person that has been out since January, but yet his money is reflected in this budget. 4 ~.~. ,'~ :--..~. MAY 8, 1996 Mr. Panigrosso said there was no reduction his retirement. DISOJSSlOO cnrrINUID Mayor Sica told him he wasn't questioning that. The money is reflected in the budget with the $236,970.00, plus benefits. About 21%. He said hospitalization alone is 8%. He said even at 6%, which of 36 is 15%, plus the other things. He then asked Councilmember Failace if he needed anymore answered on that one. Councilmember Failace said no. Mayor Sica went on to General Supplies. Mr. Torre was speaking but he was inaudible because their was others speaking over him. Mr. Torre said the cost is not we (inaudible) importance it is that we are trying to maintain what we have. He said the reconfiguration of the buildings.......Columbus School is going to be high. He said they tried to equalize the supply and go over what we need per building for the year as according to the stock pile in the (inaudible) supply area. He said the other half of that close to $2000.00 is earmarked for Special Ed Programs. He said to look at the amount that is increased. Mr. Torre said $3000.00 in the (inaudible) Program is going up to $3200.00 and you are talking with $200.00 they can get some supplies. To them you are not talking about a significant increase in the amount spent in terms of supplies. In Speech they actually went down. He said they have one less Speech Teacher. He said they are trying to balance and equalize things out. Overall they'll be spending $300,000.00 on Supplies, $308,000.00 this year, that increases to $323,00.00 next year. Councilmember Failace said that is just an increase in expenses, a percentage increase basically of ... ........ Tuition, Re: Handicapped - Mr. Panigrosso said that is an area that he remembers they discussed last year that it is one of the areas that they have very little control over. Just to give you an example they just get a sheet that tells us what the tuition rates are and they are all not in yet. We kind of try and guess that the rates should go up maybe 5% and sometimes they come in at 10%. We do not have an option as to whether we can price these students or not. Some students come to Carteret from another community and they are already in (inaudible) for Handicapped Students. We automatically pick up that tuition. That compounds the fact that we have to do some sort offorrn to try and put an amount in there, that we will be hopefully safer. So what we will be trying to do is take an average of the last several years and then try and hope that all of the schools will get their tuition rates into us and we are able to calculate them. He said as they speak tonight they don't have them all. So we do make what we consider to be a very good educated guess. He might point out that one thing is vel y significant, what went up for Carteret is students who are in State Facilities 5 MAY 8, 1998 DISaJSSlOO a:xm:NUED Mr. Panigrosso said we had anticipated last year about 36,000 from the numbers the State forwarded, with the number of students, number of Carteret residen~~e said to understand that they are all probably school age that are in State Facilities and it took them two (2) days to verifY that they were all residents of Carteret. They have to do this for the State. Once he signs off that they are residents then he has to do that. Once they verifY that they are, they just bill us, so they have billed us to the tune of about $184,000.00 for thirty- six (36), which is an increase of two (2) students to twelve (12) students that have been placed in state facilities. He said we had thirty-six (36) originally and now it-is eighty four (84), so they kind of estimated, they project for the best projection for out of district tuition for handicapped students and students in state facilities 199611997, but, he has to convince us that is the best projection they put in the budget. The state hasn't come in with an answer as to what you do if three (3) students walk into this District and require $100,000.00 in tuition and transportation. He said that last year he pointed out to us that we had one (I) student that was handicapped and was on a respirator that we had to provide transportation. The original bill was $600.00 a day just to get the child to the school and back. He said they were able to get that down to $85.00 a day which made it a little bit more feasible, which made it a little more manageable of us having control over it, so it becomes a very significant area and he thinks that one of the things being pushed by all of the districts of the state is in order to make this fair that the State of New Jersey take over tuition for our District Students..... .he commented that we have heard about that. He said he would strongly ask everyone to support that because if he did that it is a reward because then no matter what community your child is in they would be able to get the support of·the state and they are supported until they are twenty one. Mayor Sica told Mr. Panigrosso that on E4 again, everything that he talked about (inaudible) except for #06330, (inaudible) 630, 1994.11995,696,199511996 and now it has come up to 884. He asked what was their best projection of the 1995/1996. He asked where we stood. Mr. Panigrosso said we stand that we are just about on target and Mayor Sica asked if that was at 696. Mr. Panigrosso said again he is only estimating........... .He said right now as of March they are at $727,119.00 so we are probably right on target because we still have April, May and June to pay and the summer. Mayor Sica said their totals are on target but he is asking for that one specific line, #06330. Mr. Torre said in there is summer tuition that they have no control over because if your kid's program indicates that he has to attend during the summer, for example, right now they are looking at it could cost us $135,000.00 to continue. E ~··''''7r:tr'ftt~'?~'{~-~~-~.~__ Mr. Torre said the summer program will cause a disruption, so you feel like there is going to be a set back. That amount is adding in with that (inaudible). Mayor Sica said he understood that but then again the 630 or last years budget, part of that was added in too. He told them their budget is going to end June 3rd and they must have an Expenditure Encumberance Sheet that tells them where they are at today. That is the total remark. He just wants to bring down the #06330, that one particular line item because that is where it showing equals $200,000.00 increase in just that particular item. The rest of the increases.... there is some increases and decreases. That is right in the realm of what he was talking about (inaudible) percent. He pointed out another one that represents the 33% or 30%, somewhere around there. He told Joe Torre he didn't have to have it tonight and then said that is one particular item and if we are falling in the realm of what you budget then you must of had some inkling to go to 696, but if you come in at 650, if your total expenditures in June is 650 then there is even a bigger reason than you know as of right now. He said he thought that was important and then he asked Councilmember Failace if he agreed with that. Councilmember Failace said he did. He then mentioned 6990. Mr. Torre said basically what we had to do is the question was the year before Miscellaneous shows nothing and this year it shows 22,500.. You look at the 199511996 two (2) line items, 50,184 and 20,000, what the state had them do is to break out 22,500 as the as the New Jersey School Board dues.. That had to be broken down to a separate line item. He said look at the three, 31,000, 25,000 and the 22,000, that basically is going to add up to 77,000 or 78,000, with the year before that up to 70,000 as an increase in dues so we just had to move that out of that 50,000 and bring those two (2) items down. New Jersey School Board which is a man made dues and he said they had discussed this last year. Councilmember Failace asked ifit was the dues basically that went up that high. Mr. Torre said significantly and then he told him he could get him last years dues. He said the other thing is if you look at the $20,000.00 and the $25,000.00, once again it is supplies and materials. Now we making the move over to Washington School and they have some computer issues to deal with and some supplies and that we need and that is for General Administration Services and he said between the two of them that is where that increase is heading. Mayor Sica mentioned 7120. Mr. Panigrosso said this is talking about the necessity of having to get some janitorial work done in the old section dealing with construction. 7 MAY 8, 1996 DIsœsslOO cnrrINUID MAY 8, 1996 DI5æSSlOO CDNITNUED Mr. Panigrosso said the adjustment is $7000.00 for the additional supplies that will be needed to do those jobs to work on the old sections. Mr. Torre said plus anything that is included in there are some service contracts, you see in repairs and maintenance. So we have an elevated service contract and he spoke briefly on that. Mayor Sica asked for a breakdown of the contract against what we're obtaining for $229,000.00. Mr. Torre said the $229,000.00 includes (inaudible), the maintenance contracts. Mayor Sica said for him to give him a breakdown of what they are doing now. He would subtract that from the $229,000.00 and that is what they will do next. Mr. Torre agreed. 7150 Insurance - Mr. Torre said that is basically our Property and Casualty. He said unfortunately we have our Workman's Compensation went up and with the increase of buildings, Liability has taken on a 3% increase. He spoke also about Workmen's Compensation Insurance and that they have many insurances. Mayor Sica said the city of Carteret saved $10,000.00 and said this year they have to start saving money on insurance. They have one less building to insure and one building where the insurance should decrease considerably. Mayor Sica said Washington School's Liability Insurance for using it as a Board Office, verses using it as a school has to be a lot cheaper. Mr. Panigrosso said they are now comparing prices for next year. Mayor Sica said knowing what we did in the fifties, we shopped quite extensively. Sometimes we picked and choosed exactly what we wanted. He said if we stick around with this 327 and it comes in considerably less than the 272, than you are looking at $50,000.00 that is in the budget that is not necessary in the budget. Mr. Panigrosso said anytime we look at that with the surplus that we carry, according to what the state tells us carry, any little thing that we get is going to be a plus to this Board because we are at really at one tenth of one percent as far as our surplus is concerned. The state recommends that you have about 3% of your budget and we are not carrying that type of surplus. He said if we were able to realize there was $50,000.00 sitting on insurance then he would be all for placing that in his surplus. At least that is close to where the state said we should be. 8 ~,~~'7;.. ,'~:-r;~~ Mayor Sica said he agrees with that but the problem is once it becomes a known fact that we have......... lets just say for arguments sake that hypothetically we are right, that the insurance will come in cheaper because they were shopping around and looking for better buys like we did last year and it comes in at 250. He said that is $22,000.00 there and $27,000.00 over here. That is $50,000.00. We know in June or July, we have $50,000.00. We on this side of the table have to understand the fact that this $50,000.00 will stay there in case we have some unforeseen problems. On the other hand it also becomes common knowledge for the Negotiating Team. Theoretically looking at this if he were on the Negotiating Team negotiating for the union he would say why would they increase it to 327 if they have one and one halfless schools. Dan Raguseo said he understand his point but our surplus is very low. He said he is sure the Borough carries a surplus for unforeseen incidents just like they are trying to do here. Mayor Sica said they don't. He said the difference between the way the Borough and he has to operate is if we put a line item the only way we can realize the surplus is under that line item is if we stay under that cost. Mr. Raguseo said that is how they realize theirs. Mayor Sica said he cannot touch that money. It has to stay there at least until November before he can get his hands on it. Here it doesn't work that way. If in July...... .in other words there is no guarantee where it is going to stay. Here in July they had serious negotiations with their employees and they know that there is $50,000.00 sitting there they can't go in there and say ...........because it is not so. Mr Raguseo asked why would we negotiate that money made for a spare. Janet Santoro asked why we wouldn't use that money for repairs or something else in our schools. Mayor Sica said because in the past it hasn't been done, because in the past raises have been given when we were told there were not money for raises. The city has taken a very hard line on raises even to the point if it means some people are going to lose their job, well then so be it, because again and he can't express or be emphatic enough that the public employees have outstripped the private people's ability to pay, especially in a town like Carteret that have a shrinking per capita base. They are talking about a shrinking tax base because we are trying to do things to increase our tax base per say and our tax base is inflated abnormally high because of the period of which we did our reevaluation. You can't get what your house is on the books for even though we just decreased it. Unfortunately when we were forced to do reevaluation the market was high so our tax base is not shrinking per say, but cur people's ability to pay has shrunk far beyond that. 9 MAY 8, 1996 DIsaJSSlOO cnrrINUID MAY .8, 1996 DISQJSSlOO cnrrINUID Mayor Sica asked about #7280. Joe Torre said that is transp61'tà.tion.......busing. He spoke on some of the amounts and he said the increase over all transportation is about $1l,000.00. He said we are presently looking at the Guidelines the state gives for busing. He spoke on this for a while and then he said they will go out for bid as they did last year. Mayor Sica asked if in other words he was telling him that 7280 should really be 7280 and 7281 Councilmember Failace said it is a combination of both line items. He then said to look on the next page E7 and he said he sees Grade 6 through 8 and commented that is where it went up. He asked if that was the computers. Mr. Panigrosso said they did a study for complete computerization of our school district five (5) years ago and a deal configured at that time if they tried to expend $100,000.00 every year trying to computerize (inaudible). This is one of the areas where we suffer by lack of our Special Needs education because some Special Needs Districts have been computerized (inaudible) since the infusion of state funds. Year after year they have cut down on the money, but now with the addition of the Middle School we will try to have specifically geared computer money so they will expend the $100,000.00 this year to get those computers in. He said they have spent this year , from grant money, a significant amount to get computers into our Special Needs classrooms which they felt was critical So they have begun the process even though they are maybe four (4) years behind the time based on studies they have done. Councilmember Fazekas asked if they have accounted for the increase in the Service Contract. Mr. Torre said they have taken it into account. Mr. Panigrosso said the best they could. Councilmember Fazekas asked if they will renegotiate the service contracts they currently have now. Mr. Torre said some of the service contracts are negotiated every year and some in the elementary school that they have now (he said something inaudible) so some how we are getting fixed. Councilmember Fazekas asked if he could get a copy of those contracts. He then asked about on page E-5 they have Purchase Technical Services. He asked if that where the contracts come in. He said he is trying to get a breakdown. Councilmember Failace said he thought it was called 6940. 10 Mr. Torre said that would be some of them. He said for example the network in the High School are IBM, then in the English Lab there is a different kind. Councilmember Fazekas asked if some of the request for supplies also for computer supplies or is it broken down. Mr. Torre said the computers themselves has to have (inaudible). The supplies and materials and software would come out of Supplies and Material. Councilmember Fazekas said they are also built in and he again asked for a copy of the contract so he could take a look at it. Mayor Sica said on E5 - Legal Services. Last year they budgeted $167,000.00 and this year they budgeted $148,000.00. He questioned why the amount was so high. Mr. Panigrosso said they have a list of cases. He said their legal fee has basically remained the same, which was $40,000.00. He said each time they are sued it becomes another fee. He said they have many frivolous law suits in which they have to defend the Board of Education and the Borough. His particular problem with these law suits is we can recover money that is spent on frivolous law suits. He said the best example he can give him is he has a list here that tells exactly what the fees are. He spoke on an example of this. Mr. Torre said the other thing that is in there is Legal and Contractual Services. Attorney Hedesh said the law changed January 1st for frivolous lawsuits for public entities. They all spoke on this for a while. Mayor Sica said he would like to see exactly what was charged for the frivolous law suits up until the present date. Mayor Sica spoke about an employee count. He said on his own sake he took fourteen (14) people and he added about $40,000.00 to each salary and that comes to about $560,000.00. If he takes 7.6 of that as a Social Security benefit that comes up to approximately, conservativley $40,000.00. In their Social Security Account they are showing an increase of$18,000.00. He said that is $58,000.00 and he asked if that was correct. Mr. Panigrosso spoke on this for a while. Mayor Sica said to say for arguments sake they are down to $40,000.00. He is saying it is closer to $50,000,00 but he is going to be real conservative and he is going to say go down to $40,000.00 and then he will take that times 7.6% and he comes up with $300,000.00. There is $300,000.00 going somewhere. 11 MAY B, 1996 DIsœsslOO cnrrrNUID MAY 8, 1996 DISQJSSlOO cnrrINUID Councilmember Failace then helped clarifY to Dan Raguseo what Mayor Sica was doing was saying what number did you need to take 7.6% to get an increase in Sffcial Security...........$300,000.00. Dan Raguseo said additionally you back it into salaries. Councilmember Failace said that was right. Mayor Sica said to take that $300,000.00 and mark it over here in summer. He said they wouldn't be paying Social Security on it if it wasn't summer. Mr Panigrosso said we reduced fourteen (14) positions, which saved us salary and now he is saying that we show an increase on the (inaudible) line of$18,000.00........... Mayor Sica said he is buying the $18,000.00. He said the net increase is $58,000.00. He repeated he is buying the $18,000.00 that Mr Panigrosso said, but he used not only Social Security, but some other fringe benefits. Mr. Torre said that was part ofthe project. Mayor Sica again repeated he was buying the whole $18,000.00 but that is still going to leave him with $40,00.00, which comes up to $300,000.00. Mr. Torre said the people that are in the TRAF, the teachers.... the state pays that Social Security. He again mentioned the savings in salaries from fourteen (14) less salaries. Mayor Sica said if you take a $70,000.00 guy and he bumps somebody down, does he stay at $70,000.00. Mr. Panigrosso said it depends on where is bumping to. The position may be comparable. Mayor Sica said if you bump down you can't go up so theoretically it could be a little safer Mr. Raguseo said they started this budget. It wasn't in bounds. If we would have just gone with whatever was there we would have been overplanned by a million one hundred and thirty seven thousand dollars so in order to get that down to a balanced budget within cap we had to take whatever actions we had to take to come down to the budget, $25,102,000.00 to get it to the base cap. So all the saving we took and all those fourteen (14) people helped us do was bring the budget down to point where he cold manage it within the cap, that we could possibly spend. He told the Mayor that his assumption is that we had money that we could have expended within the budget after we laid those people off. All it did was bring us down to balance the budget. There is not any extra $300,000.00 in here from salaries. 12 ,....-""',/ :----- Mr. Raguseo said they reduced over a million dollars in salary to get it down to $25,102,000.00 , -~ , Mayor Sica asked what this came to in steps alone. Mr. Raguseo said the incliment in there right now is $250,000.00, which is under contractual agreement now. This is the next step. He said the original contract was $287,000.00, which ends June 3rd. Mayor Sica commented that it what is going to happen next year. Mr. Raguseo said they will think of this as a step. It is a 2% incriment. Mayor Sica said and always on salary you show, you show that step incriment. Mr. Raguseo said it was correct. Mayor Sica said it still shows that there is going to be more money in Social Security than is necessary unless some raises are (inaudible). Mr. Raguseo said the raises are built big so the increase in Social Security............ Mayor Sica said he is talking about the 1996//997 raises. Mr. Raguseo said it is only going up $18,000.00. Councilmember Failace said but as he commented the Mayor was saying if the Social Security has gone up then somewhere is salaries a number had to go up $250,000.00 in order to get $18,00000 in Social Securities. Mr. Crilley said if the Salary Account stayed the same and if it didn't change and they didn't give anybody a raise and it stayed the same it would go up $18,000.00. Councilmember Failace said that he understood and then he went on to speak very low making it inaudible. Mr. Raguseo said within the steps there is additional money. Mr. Torre and Mr. Panigrosso said that is contractual. Mayor Sica said they had to put that money in there in anticipation of giving some money to something based on 7.6%. Mr. Raguseo said they told him $18,000.00 went in there. Mayor Sica said to wipe that out. Mr. Raguseo said he was making an assumption. 13 MAY 8, 1996 DISCUSSlOO cnrrINUID MAY 8, 1996 DIsœSSlOO cnrrINUID Mayor Sica said he was not making an assumption. He said they lost fourteen (14) people. They paid Social Security last year . Mr. Raguseo said all the saving they got added up from everything associated with those fourteen (14) people are back into the budget somewhere. Mayor Sica said he was not saying that and then he asked why they didn't take it out of the Social Security Account. - Mr. Torre said he tried to say that before. He commented that maybe he didn't explain himself too well He said that 235, that amount of social security money is strictly for the non teaching staff and as they said earlier they did not layoff secretaries and or custodians. Mayor Sica said the easiest way to solve this problem is you give him exactly how much Social Security you will pay in and by June 30th he will (inaudible). Mr. Torre said that is only an opinion, a non professional statement. It is not for any teachers. It is for custodians and secretaries. Mayor Sica said and the same amount he wants the same thing for TPAF. Exact amount of money that you are going to payout for TP AF as of June 30, 1996. Mr. Raguseo asked the Mayor ifthere was an assumption there that this money in the budget that is here, that's not written. Mayor Sica asked Mr. Raguseo if he could tell him right now that there would be no raises. Mr. Raguseo said he coulrln't do that. They are in negotiations. Can't do that by law. Mayor Sica asked if he could tell him that there is no money in this budget to give anybody a one dollar raise. Mr. Raguseo said he cannot say that by law. Mayor Sica said then what he is telling him is if there was additional money put in the TP AF or Social Security, that means somewhere in this budget there is dollars that will be used for raises. Mr. Raguseo said that is an assumption that they are going to give them the money. He is saying that prior to negotiations your assumption is that there are no negotiations. That we already committed that money and that is incorrect. Mayor Sica said he didn't say they committed the money. Mr. Raguseo said he was saying....are there monies in here. There's 2% increment in here. 14 Mayor Sica said he is talking about the other raises. ,,~! Mr. Raguseo said that has to be negotiatelØ Mayor Sica said then there has to be money here. Mr. Raguseo said they have to negotiate that. Mayor Sica said he was still not answering his question. I -'lcut. Social Security in there to cover raises........ Mr. Raguseo said under the advise of the $148,00000 counsel.... .under that diocese for renegotiation of contract they can't disclose that information. . Mayor Sica asked what they were sitting there for. Janet Santoro asked the Mayor if they could just go back to what they were doing there tonight. We are supposed to be going over the present budget, their recommendations, their questions...... Mayor Sica said he could not make recommendations unless he has the facts. Janet agreed. Mayor Sica asked her if she wanted to give him and the Council the facts. Janet said they are giving him the facts. Mayor Sica said if she was to give him and this Council the facts in private to be held by just the Board Members and the Council and the Mayor, that is fine, but he said they are talking about assumption. They are saying that they assume there is money there and they are also assuming that we are not going to hire a janitor and that could be part of the money and he is also assuming that we are going to save $50,000.00 on insurance and he is assuming that is going to go in there. This whole thing is an assumption on our part because all we have are these facts, but, if they don't give us the true and accurate facts than there is no way for him to make an educated determination of if this budget can be cut or not. Mr. Torre said what he has is true. Saying that hec'ce5nthave the true and accurate facts.....which is what we have...... Mayor Sica said is what they are assuming. Mr. Torre said no, ifhe needs backup, he will get backup The other side of the assumption is he is assuming that any monies that might be realized with alterations....he is sitting here saying we can't...we are in a position where that money can be better utilized for many things. 15 MAY 8, 1996 DISCUSSlOO cnrrINUID MAY 8, 1996 DIsœSSlOO cnrrINUID Mayor Sica said what lent credence to his assumption that whatever monies is .........and what lends real credence to his assumption that whatever money can be realized by insurance, a janitor not being replaced, etc., etc., is it helps to fortifY the fact that it is going to become a reality because there is an excessive amount put in Social Security . Mr. Raguseo said that is a bad assumption. Mr. Panigrosso said to the Mayor that the true question .....are we hiding money in order to give raises. Mayor Sica said ifhe had to go through each and every single number it would be it would be a monumental task, but something that he can do. He can come in here and get the actual dollar that every single person made, every single thing that was spent, that was anticipated to be spent and how much was actually spent and where you transferred ........which is not done the way the Borough does it by going in front of the public and showing the transfer. He can come in here and do that and he will be in here tomorrow if that is what it is going to take. He is trying to ascertain and he is trying to be as emphatic as he possibly can that again, going back to his first statement, public employees have outstripped the private sector's ability to pay and raises are not something that he considers part of the future in 1996. If he is now here, sitting here and he wants to get the actual numbers of TP AF and Social Security and he sees that number is not accurately reflected..... .He then commented that he knows it is tough to hold the line on raises, but, it has to be done. There is no alternative and if the teachers don't realize that or if the custodians or maintenance men or administrators or whoever don't realize that then shame on them and let them leave, whoever it is. Whoever wants a raise you give it to them and cut somebody else. That is what we are going to do and he wants those numbers because as it looks to him, these numbers that he has played with were very very conservative numbers and it showed to him that there is $300,000.00 in this budget somewhere that can be realized and used for salaries. Mr. Panigrosso said he doesn't see how he just made all those assumptions. Mayor Sica asked how about if we make them a sociable bet that raises will come out of this budget if he don't cut it. Mr. Raguseo said he can't do that. He commented that he is a negotiator and he is asking him to disclose information which can harm us in negotiations. Mayor Sica said he is not asking him to disclose any information... .he is asking him to commit to where the city comes in. Janet Santoro said you can't do that. 16 Mayor Sica said that this Council has to look very seriously in the areas that were in question here tonight aS$he possible places that money has been put, to overcome..... ..which he commented that they are not ready to tell us and then what they have to do at that point in time.........is we feel as a Councilmember or Mayor that there is $40,000.00 in Janitorial Services or there is $50,000.00 in insurance saving or whatever it is, then that is where they will have to recommend making the cuts in order to put a road block in front of their negotiations to take the money out of their possession to give raises. Janet Santoro told the Mayor that one thing that he made an assumption about is that we will give these raises and the assumption Mayor Sica told her he is not making the assumption. He told her she is the one that is making the assumption by not being willing to state here the fact that raises are not in the future in 199611997. Janet Santoro said after Mondays meeting she is sure that question can be answered. She was told that it cannot be answered in a meeting. She said when he asked if there was a janitor that we realized the savings, we were told it would go into Surplus. Now they are in the middle of construction and he is saying that within our realms there is nothing else this district needs but to ready for that. Mayor Sica said that is not what he is saying. What he is saying that there is a lot of things and he said to quote this Raguseo,there is a lot of things this district needs and not raises. That is what he is saying. Janet Santoro then asked him why is he assuming that they would go to raises. Mayor Sica said because of ......he sees built in dollars that would equate out to dollars paid in raises. Social Security and TP AF. Mr. Torre said that is your other retirement. Mr. Panigrosso said that is a summed up statement. Mayor Sica said ifhe sees inflated numbers there those numbers have to reflect something somewhere. You don't put money in the Social Security Account because your Social Security Account for your total picture on salaries is a clearly defined number at this particular time. If you are telling him that there is no increase in salaries....... Janet Santoro asked him ifthey told him there was increment. Mayor Sica said they took that into consideration and he was real liberal with that. He said he was real liberal with the (inaudible). He said they are not even getting into the hospitalization . You are talking about another $100,000.00. 17 MAYS. 1996 DISOJSSlOO cnrrINUID MAY 8, 1996 DISOJSSlOO cnrrINUID Mayor Sica also told Mr. Torre he wanted to know what he paid for hospitalization using the 322 people and what he intends to pay for hospitalization when it is 308 people. In addition to that whatever other benefits are waited out on those fourteen (14) people, he wants that number. Mr. Raguseo asked the Mayor if he comes up with all this extra money in the budget it would be okay with him if he used this for everything else but salaries. Mayor Sica said yes. He said he is not against education but his point is that enough is enough in the Salary Account. Mr. Raguseo said if they take all the money he finds and save in this budget and we apply it to everything else except salaries, he would leave it in there. Mayor Sica said he has no problem with that. Mr. Raguseo said he will take that. Mayor Sica said part of the equation is if they give out raises next year they double the cut they would have made this year. He said it is very conceivable that this budget is so complex that it would take weeks for him to go through it line item by line item and it is very conceivable that he could miss one or two hundred thousand dollars We will not put anything that he finds as a savings in this budget providing it is used for the benefit of the educational system, xing out salaries. Mr. Raguseo asked him if that meant nobody can ever get that money that we cut otherwise at. Mayor Sica said if there is additional money that he don't find that they give out as raises, next year when they give out (inaudible) double that. Janet Santoro said they will take this under advise. Mayor Sica said he thought Monday night he and the whole Council were pretty up front. Yesterday it was reported to him that someone unfortunately went and told all the people that number one, he was laying off certain individuals and he earmarked to layoff certain individuals. He said someone right after that meeting went and said he mentioned certain peoples names in the janitorial department that their job was a waste and we didn't need those people. In addition to that he asked specifically about a janitor being laid off and he was told explicticly that no janitor would be laid off or no janitors were going to retire. Janet Santoro asked who the individual was that said that. Mayor Sica said he didn't know. 18 Janet Santoro said she remembers the conversation and she said it was about a janitor being on extended Sick Leave. ,...,.. Mayor Sica said it was common knowledge that back in April this man was going to be gone in June. Mr. Panigrosso said there was no Board action taken at the time. A motion was made by Councilmember Bialowarczuk to adjourn the meeting. This motion was second by Councilmember Failace. After no further this discussion, at approximately 8:55 p.m., this meeting was adjourned. Respectfully submitted, /;d¡lØ@~'!J= ''"KATHLEEN M. BARNEY Municipal Clerk KMB/lr --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19 MAY 8, 1996 orSQJSSlOO romNUED ADJOORNED -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------