HomeMy Public PortalAbout1996/05/08
An Informal Meeting was held by the Mayor and Council of the
Borough of Carteret on May S, 1996, 7:30 P.M., Lincoln School,
Carteret Avenue, Carteret, New Jersey.
The following were noted present:
Mayor Peter 1. Sica
Councilmember Bialowarczuk
" Failace
" Fazekas
" Feingold
" O'Brien
Also noted present was Louis Panigrosso, Joseph Torre, Janet
Santoro and Michael Raguseo from the Board of Education.
Mailed to The Home News & Tribune, The Star Ledger and posted
on the bulletin board on May 3, 1996.
Discuss School Budget.
Mayor Sica said he has a list of eight (8) questions given to Janet
Santoro by Councilmember Failace.
Janet Santoro said she turned the questions over to Mr. Torre.
Mr. Panigrosso said on question number one, they need a secretary's
staff. He said in the Middle School the amount of secretary work
generated they will need an extra person and rather than hire an
additional person they will just transfer one of the two from the areas
school, of the two that will be shut down. The other explanation is
the secretary, we have been handed by the state and he commented
that he did not know if they were familiar with the semi initiative, they
may have read about it, Special Education (inaudible) the State of
New Jersey is able to get funds trom the Federal Government for
services that are provided to students in local districts. The argument
that came up with Superintendents of local districts was the state
gets 85% of that share and the district gets 50%. However the state
mandated that certain districts must do this because of the fact that
they have a significam percentage the people that are on Medicaid.
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MAY 15, 1996
INFORMAL MEETING
May II, 1996
PRESENf
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OOITCE
PURPOSE OF WE
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Mr. Panigrosso said Carteret was one of those districts that was
cited and it was mentioned that if we did not go this process, that we
would possibly have state ai~with help, therefore he had to take on
this Medicaid issue. We are getting money, to the tune of 15 cents on
one (I) dollar. We do not have any idea of what monies we were
realized, but we hope it will at least pay for the people that have to
do all these records and it is quite intense. What they have done this
year is he has added on a duty to one of his administrators and made
that person coordinator in charge and gotten hopefully one (I)
secretary out of the Special Services Department in September that
will spend half the time with Medicaid initiative half the time helping
out the Special Services Department which is in need of extra
secretarial help so that is the reason why (inaudible) a secretary,
because actually we needed to add. In effect we have saved the adding
by condensing and taking those (2) secretaries and relocating them.
Mayor Sica said he would like them to turn to B (inaudible).
Mr. Panigrosso said what happened here in as we rearrange and
according to where people (inaudible) he thinks that was explained
as a taxment severed or item severed. There were people, according
to the new gap, we are constantly changing where the state is telling
us (inaudible). Financially by open bid we reduced from one area and
just put it with the other areas so actually it was a wash and he thinks
that was eXplained in number seven (7) . Most people should go in
(inaudible) Administrative Business or (inaudible). Where we put it
was the of no consequence to us because the state was telling us to
make the change and that is the reason why we made the change and
it was of no increase or no decrease.
Mayor Sica said that is not what it says here.
Mr. Joseph Torre spoke saying there is twenty-one (21) people
currently in the Clerical Staff. Next year fifteen (15) of those clerical
staff will be remaining as clerical positions. Six (6) of those people
will be residing in the Business Office. We looked at under current
who the Administrative Business numbers recorded as zero, under
current. That is not true. Those people had to be moved (inaudible)
that six.
Mayor Sica said that is only six (6). It is not twenty one (21) because
if you look back to ......
Mr. Torre said to go back to the Extneded Salary Account on
Secretaries. He described where the secretaries were and who they
were.
Mayor Sica said the Administrative Offices will have six (6) people.
Mr. Torre said yes.
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Mayor Sica said they have fifteen (15) and asked in how many schools.
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MAY II, 1996
Mr. Torre said they four (4) schools plus the Administrative Office.
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Mayor Sica said you are going to take four (4) people into (inaudible).
Mr. Panigrosso said also in Special Services.
Mayor Sica said he has fifteen (15) clerical people, you have four (4)
schools, that is four (4) people into sixteen (16).
Mr. Panigrosso said but he don't think you would say per school
because we have secretaries assigned but they are not assigned per
said school. For example they have two (2) secretaries in the High
School and we will have two (2) in the Middle School and one (I)
each in each of the Elementary Schools, so that is six (6). Now you
have to turn around and break out the ones that we have in our
Special Services area, Library, etc. etc.
Mayor Sica said they had separate (inaudible) for Library.
Mr. Panigrosso said yes. He said of those that Mr. Torre would be
offering you take (inaudible) assigned to each school.
Mr. Torre said the Library Secretaries even get (inaudible).
Mayor Sica said he understood they could put them whereever they
want. He said they have an average of four (4) clerical staff for each
entity you have. Whether you have three (3) years and five (5) years
it doesn't matter. You still have fifteen (15) divided by four (4) that
comes up to four (4) .
Mr. Panigrosso said if you take Special Services, that is the whole
district. He asked how they would assign the secretary in Special
Service at a school.
Mayor Sica said he is not saying that. He didn't say that. What he said
to you is that also takes care off our (4) schools but then still have an
average of four (4) people. Whether you have one doing the work
for everybody it doesn't matter. He has said it doesn't matter if you
have five (5) in this school because one of them is doing Special
Needs and three (3) in another school, the average is four (4).
Mr. Panigrosso said that is not per school. If they are at different
offices it is not saying we have an average offour (4) secretaries at
Carteret High School. We only have two (2) secretaries.
Mayor Sica said the average is four (4) clerical people for each
building they maintain. He then said something inaudible.
Mr. Panigrosso said he would really would like to show us what they
are doing with the state money, that 15%. It is mind boggling an
amount of work is coming out of our Social Services. An illuminous
amount of (inaudible) is being done and Special Services is
something that he thinks requires more than two (2) or three (3).
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Mr. Panigrosso said that are doing it on shifts and hopefully we will
get in another half because of our reduction.
Councilmember Failace asked about the custodians.
Mr Torre said the custodians have twenty six (26) people. He said
they basically have them in six (6) buildings now. He spoke on this a
little and he said notices had gone out that there is a possibility of
reduction but right now ¡¡ley are sticking with what they have. He
spoke about the Lunch Program and Cafeteria and that they may be
going to a full day Kindergarten, which would mean much more
children eating in the cafeteria and they don't want to cut themself
short with custodians.
Mayor Sica questioned when one of the custodians put in for their
retirement and how long had he been out.
Mr Panigrosso said he was out sick and was operated on and he put
in for retirement and was accepted at the April Meeting.
Mr. Crilley said he didn't think we accepted his retirement. Disability
but not retirement.
Mr. Mangieri said we accepted his retirement but not his extra
money. He said we didn't do a separate Sick Leave.
Mayor Sica asked now long has he been out prior to his (inaudible).
Mr. Panigrosso said about January.
Mayor Sica commented that they had gotten along without him pretty
good.
Mr. Panigrosso said a maintenance man took his place.
Mayor Sica said when they have one less building say to operate then
they might not need a maintenance man.
Mr. Ton·e said the biggest maintenance will be at the High School.
Mayor Sica said they are modernizing the three (3) existing schools
that we are still going to have. A lot more energy efficient, a lot more
efficient operation and there is going to be theoretically one and one
halfless buildings that have to be maintained on a day to day basis.
Washington School becoming the Board Office he is sure is not going
to take the maintenance that it takes for four or five hundred kids
running around in the school. Nathan Hale School is going to be
completely (inadible). So you are now getting along with a half a
time person that you don't have anymore and a full time person that
has been out since January, but yet his money is reflected in this
budget.
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Mr. Panigrosso said there was no reduction his retirement.
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Mayor Sica told him he wasn't questioning that. The money is
reflected in the budget with the $236,970.00, plus benefits. About
21%. He said hospitalization alone is 8%. He said even at 6%, which
of 36 is 15%, plus the other things. He then asked Councilmember
Failace if he needed anymore answered on that one.
Councilmember Failace said no.
Mayor Sica went on to General Supplies.
Mr. Torre was speaking but he was inaudible because their was
others speaking over him.
Mr. Torre said the cost is not we (inaudible) importance it is that we
are trying to maintain what we have. He said the reconfiguration of
the buildings.......Columbus School is going to be high. He said they
tried to equalize the supply and go over what we need per building
for the year as according to the stock pile in the (inaudible) supply
area. He said the other half of that close to $2000.00 is earmarked
for Special Ed Programs. He said to look at the amount that is
increased. Mr. Torre said $3000.00 in the (inaudible) Program is
going up to $3200.00 and you are talking with $200.00 they can get
some supplies. To them you are not talking about a significant
increase in the amount spent in terms of supplies. In Speech they
actually went down. He said they have one less Speech Teacher. He
said they are trying to balance and equalize things out. Overall they'll
be spending $300,000.00 on Supplies, $308,000.00 this year, that
increases to $323,00.00 next year.
Councilmember Failace said that is just an increase in expenses, a
percentage increase basically of ... ........
Tuition, Re: Handicapped - Mr. Panigrosso said that is an area that
he remembers they discussed last year that it is one of the areas that
they have very little control over. Just to give you an example they
just get a sheet that tells us what the tuition rates are and they are all
not in yet. We kind of try and guess that the rates should go up
maybe 5% and sometimes they come in at 10%. We do not have an
option as to whether we can price these students or not. Some
students come to Carteret from another community and they are
already in (inaudible) for Handicapped Students. We automatically
pick up that tuition. That compounds the fact that we have to do
some sort offorrn to try and put an amount in there, that we will be
hopefully safer. So what we will be trying to do is take an average of
the last several years and then try and hope that all of the schools will
get their tuition rates into us and we are able to calculate them. He
said as they speak tonight they don't have them all. So we do make
what we consider to be a very good educated guess. He might point
out that one thing is vel y significant, what went up for Carteret is
students who are in State Facilities
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Mr. Panigrosso said we had anticipated last year about 36,000 from
the numbers the State forwarded, with the number of students,
number of Carteret residen~~e said to understand that they are all
probably school age that are in State Facilities and it took them two
(2) days to verifY that they were all residents of Carteret. They have
to do this for the State. Once he signs off that they are residents
then he has to do that. Once they verifY that they are, they just bill
us, so they have billed us to the tune of about $184,000.00 for thirty-
six (36), which is an increase of two (2) students to twelve (12)
students that have been placed in state facilities. He said we had
thirty-six (36) originally and now it-is eighty four (84), so they kind
of estimated, they project for the best projection for out of district
tuition for handicapped students and students in state facilities
199611997, but, he has to convince us that is the best projection they
put in the budget. The state hasn't come in with an answer as to what
you do if three (3) students walk into this District and require
$100,000.00 in tuition and transportation. He said that last year he
pointed out to us that we had one (I) student that was handicapped
and was on a respirator that we had to provide transportation. The
original bill was $600.00 a day just to get the child to the school and
back. He said they were able to get that down to $85.00 a day which
made it a little bit more feasible, which made it a little more
manageable of us having control over it, so it becomes a very
significant area and he thinks that one of the things being pushed by
all of the districts of the state is in order to make this fair that the
State of New Jersey take over tuition for our District Students..... .he
commented that we have heard about that. He said he would
strongly ask everyone to support that because if he did that it is a
reward because then no matter what community your child is in they
would be able to get the support of·the state and they are supported
until they are twenty one.
Mayor Sica told Mr. Panigrosso that on E4 again, everything that he
talked about (inaudible) except for #06330, (inaudible) 630,
1994.11995,696,199511996 and now it has come up to 884. He asked
what was their best projection of the 1995/1996. He asked where we
stood.
Mr. Panigrosso said we stand that we are just about on target and
Mayor Sica asked if that was at 696.
Mr. Panigrosso said again he is only estimating........... .He said right
now as of March they are at $727,119.00 so we are probably right on
target because we still have April, May and June to pay and the
summer.
Mayor Sica said their totals are on target but he is asking for that
one specific line, #06330.
Mr. Torre said in there is summer tuition that they have no control
over because if your kid's program indicates that he has to attend
during the summer, for example, right now they are looking at it
could cost us $135,000.00 to continue.
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Mr. Torre said the summer program will cause a disruption, so you
feel like there is going to be a set back. That amount is adding in with
that (inaudible).
Mayor Sica said he understood that but then again the 630 or last
years budget, part of that was added in too. He told them their
budget is going to end June 3rd and they must have an Expenditure
Encumberance Sheet that tells them where they are at today. That is
the total remark. He just wants to bring down the #06330, that one
particular line item because that is where it showing equals
$200,000.00 increase in just that particular item. The rest of the
increases.... there is some increases and decreases. That is right in
the realm of what he was talking about (inaudible) percent. He
pointed out another one that represents the 33% or 30%, somewhere
around there. He told Joe Torre he didn't have to have it tonight and
then said that is one particular item and if we are falling in the realm
of what you budget then you must of had some inkling to go to 696,
but if you come in at 650, if your total expenditures in June is 650
then there is even a bigger reason than you know as of right now. He
said he thought that was important and then he asked Councilmember
Failace if he agreed with that.
Councilmember Failace said he did. He then mentioned 6990.
Mr. Torre said basically what we had to do is the question was the
year before Miscellaneous shows nothing and this year it shows
22,500.. You look at the 199511996 two (2) line items, 50,184 and
20,000, what the state had them do is to break out 22,500 as the as
the New Jersey School Board dues.. That had to be broken down to
a separate line item. He said look at the three, 31,000, 25,000 and the
22,000, that basically is going to add up to 77,000 or 78,000, with
the year before that up to 70,000 as an increase in dues so we just
had to move that out of that 50,000 and bring those two (2) items
down. New Jersey School Board which is a man made dues and he
said they had discussed this last year.
Councilmember Failace asked ifit was the dues basically that went up
that high.
Mr. Torre said significantly and then he told him he could get him
last years dues. He said the other thing is if you look at the
$20,000.00 and the $25,000.00, once again it is supplies and
materials. Now we making the move over to Washington School and
they have some computer issues to deal with and some supplies and
that we need and that is for General Administration Services and he
said between the two of them that is where that increase is heading.
Mayor Sica mentioned 7120.
Mr. Panigrosso said this is talking about the necessity of having to
get some janitorial work done in the old section dealing with
construction.
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Mr. Panigrosso said the adjustment is $7000.00 for the additional
supplies that will be needed to do those jobs to work on the old
sections.
Mr. Torre said plus anything that is included in there are some
service contracts, you see in repairs and maintenance. So we have
an elevated service contract and he spoke briefly on that.
Mayor Sica asked for a breakdown of the contract against what we're
obtaining for $229,000.00.
Mr. Torre said the $229,000.00 includes (inaudible), the maintenance
contracts.
Mayor Sica said for him to give him a breakdown of what they are
doing now. He would subtract that from the $229,000.00 and that is
what they will do next.
Mr. Torre agreed.
7150 Insurance - Mr. Torre said that is basically our Property and
Casualty. He said unfortunately we have our Workman's
Compensation went up and with the increase of buildings, Liability
has taken on a 3% increase. He spoke also about Workmen's
Compensation Insurance and that they have many insurances.
Mayor Sica said the city of Carteret saved $10,000.00 and said this
year they have to start saving money on insurance. They have one
less building to insure and one building where the insurance should
decrease considerably.
Mayor Sica said Washington School's Liability Insurance for using it
as a Board Office, verses using it as a school has to be a lot cheaper.
Mr. Panigrosso said they are now comparing prices for next year.
Mayor Sica said knowing what we did in the fifties, we shopped quite
extensively. Sometimes we picked and choosed exactly what we
wanted. He said if we stick around with this 327 and it comes in
considerably less than the 272, than you are looking at $50,000.00
that is in the budget that is not necessary in the budget.
Mr. Panigrosso said anytime we look at that with the surplus that we
carry, according to what the state tells us carry, any little thing that
we get is going to be a plus to this Board because we are at really at
one tenth of one percent as far as our surplus is concerned. The state
recommends that you have about 3% of your budget and we are not
carrying that type of surplus. He said if we were able to realize there
was $50,000.00 sitting on insurance then he would be all for placing
that in his surplus. At least that is close to where the state said we
should be.
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Mayor Sica said he agrees with that but the problem is once it
becomes a known fact that we have......... lets just say for arguments
sake that hypothetically we are right, that the insurance will come in
cheaper because they were shopping around and looking for better
buys like we did last year and it comes in at 250. He said that is
$22,000.00 there and $27,000.00 over here. That is $50,000.00. We
know in June or July, we have $50,000.00. We on this side of the
table have to understand the fact that this $50,000.00 will stay there
in case we have some unforeseen problems. On the other hand it also
becomes common knowledge for the Negotiating Team.
Theoretically looking at this if he were on the Negotiating Team
negotiating for the union he would say why would they increase it to
327 if they have one and one halfless schools.
Dan Raguseo said he understand his point but our surplus is very low.
He said he is sure the Borough carries a surplus for unforeseen
incidents just like they are trying to do here.
Mayor Sica said they don't. He said the difference between the way
the Borough and he has to operate is if we put a line item the only
way we can realize the surplus is under that line item is if we stay
under that cost.
Mr. Raguseo said that is how they realize theirs.
Mayor Sica said he cannot touch that money. It has to stay there at
least until November before he can get his hands on it. Here it doesn't
work that way. If in July...... .in other words there is no guarantee
where it is going to stay. Here in July they had serious negotiations
with their employees and they know that there is $50,000.00 sitting
there they can't go in there and say ...........because it is not so.
Mr Raguseo asked why would we negotiate that money made for a
spare.
Janet Santoro asked why we wouldn't use that money for repairs or
something else in our schools.
Mayor Sica said because in the past it hasn't been done, because in the
past raises have been given when we were told there were not money
for raises. The city has taken a very hard line on raises even to the
point if it means some people are going to lose their job, well then so
be it, because again and he can't express or be emphatic enough that
the public employees have outstripped the private people's ability to
pay, especially in a town like Carteret that have a shrinking per capita
base. They are talking about a shrinking tax base because we are
trying to do things to increase our tax base per say and our tax base
is inflated abnormally high because of the period of which we did our
reevaluation. You can't get what your house is on the books for even
though we just decreased it. Unfortunately when we were forced to
do reevaluation the market was high so our tax base is not shrinking
per say, but cur people's ability to pay has shrunk far beyond that.
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Mayor Sica asked about #7280.
Joe Torre said that is transp61'tà.tion.......busing. He spoke on some of
the amounts and he said the increase over all transportation is about
$1l,000.00. He said we are presently looking at the Guidelines the state
gives for busing. He spoke on this for a while and then he said they
will go out for bid as they did last year.
Mayor Sica asked if in other words he was telling him that 7280
should really be 7280 and 7281
Councilmember Failace said it is a combination of both line items. He
then said to look on the next page E7 and he said he sees Grade 6
through 8 and commented that is where it went up. He asked if that
was the computers.
Mr. Panigrosso said they did a study for complete computerization of
our school district five (5) years ago and a deal configured at that time
if they tried to expend $100,000.00 every year trying to computerize
(inaudible). This is one of the areas where we suffer by lack of our
Special Needs education because some Special Needs Districts have
been computerized (inaudible) since the infusion of state funds. Year
after year they have cut down on the money, but now with the
addition of the Middle School we will try to have specifically geared
computer money so they will expend the $100,000.00 this year to get
those computers in. He said they have spent this year , from grant
money, a significant amount to get computers into our Special Needs
classrooms which they felt was critical So they have begun the
process even though they are maybe four (4) years behind the time
based on studies they have done.
Councilmember Fazekas asked if they have accounted for the increase
in the Service Contract.
Mr. Torre said they have taken it into account.
Mr. Panigrosso said the best they could.
Councilmember Fazekas asked if they will renegotiate the service
contracts they currently have now.
Mr. Torre said some of the service contracts are negotiated every
year and some in the elementary school that they have now (he said
something inaudible) so some how we are getting fixed.
Councilmember Fazekas asked if he could get a copy of those
contracts. He then asked about on page E-5 they have Purchase
Technical Services. He asked if that where the contracts come in. He
said he is trying to get a breakdown.
Councilmember Failace said he thought it was called 6940.
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Mr. Torre said that would be some of them. He said for example the
network in the High School are IBM, then in the English Lab there
is a different kind.
Councilmember Fazekas asked if some of the request for supplies also
for computer supplies or is it broken down.
Mr. Torre said the computers themselves has to have (inaudible). The
supplies and materials and software would come out of Supplies and
Material.
Councilmember Fazekas said they are also built in and he again asked
for a copy of the contract so he could take a look at it.
Mayor Sica said on E5 - Legal Services. Last year they budgeted
$167,000.00 and this year they budgeted $148,000.00. He questioned
why the amount was so high.
Mr. Panigrosso said they have a list of cases. He said their legal fee
has basically remained the same, which was $40,000.00. He said each
time they are sued it becomes another fee. He said they have many
frivolous law suits in which they have to defend the Board of
Education and the Borough. His particular problem with these law
suits is we can recover money that is spent on frivolous law suits.
He said the best example he can give him is he has a list here that tells
exactly what the fees are. He spoke on an example of this.
Mr. Torre said the other thing that is in there is Legal and Contractual
Services.
Attorney Hedesh said the law changed January 1st for frivolous
lawsuits for public entities. They all spoke on this for a while.
Mayor Sica said he would like to see exactly what was charged for the
frivolous law suits up until the present date.
Mayor Sica spoke about an employee count. He said on his own sake
he took fourteen (14) people and he added about $40,000.00 to each
salary and that comes to about $560,000.00. If he takes 7.6 of that as
a Social Security benefit that comes up to approximately,
conservativley $40,000.00. In their Social Security Account they are
showing an increase of$18,000.00. He said that is $58,000.00 and he
asked if that was correct.
Mr. Panigrosso spoke on this for a while.
Mayor Sica said to say for arguments sake they are down to
$40,000.00. He is saying it is closer to $50,000,00 but he is going to
be real conservative and he is going to say go down to $40,000.00 and
then he will take that times 7.6% and he comes up with
$300,000.00. There is $300,000.00 going somewhere.
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Councilmember Failace then helped clarifY to Dan Raguseo what
Mayor Sica was doing was saying what number did you need to take
7.6% to get an increase in Sffcial Security...........$300,000.00.
Dan Raguseo said additionally you back it into salaries.
Councilmember Failace said that was right.
Mayor Sica said to take that $300,000.00 and mark it over here in
summer. He said they wouldn't be paying Social Security on it if it
wasn't summer.
Mr Panigrosso said we reduced fourteen (14) positions, which saved
us salary and now he is saying that we show an increase on the
(inaudible) line of$18,000.00...........
Mayor Sica said he is buying the $18,000.00. He said the net increase
is $58,000.00. He repeated he is buying the $18,000.00 that Mr
Panigrosso said, but he used not only Social Security, but some other
fringe benefits.
Mr. Torre said that was part ofthe project.
Mayor Sica again repeated he was buying the whole $18,000.00 but
that is still going to leave him with $40,00.00, which comes up to
$300,000.00.
Mr. Torre said the people that are in the TRAF, the teachers.... the
state pays that Social Security. He again mentioned the savings in
salaries from fourteen (14) less salaries.
Mayor Sica said if you take a $70,000.00 guy and he bumps
somebody down, does he stay at $70,000.00.
Mr. Panigrosso said it depends on where is bumping to. The position
may be comparable.
Mayor Sica said if you bump down you can't go up so theoretically it
could be a little safer
Mr. Raguseo said they started this budget. It wasn't in bounds. If we
would have just gone with whatever was there we would have been
overplanned by a million one hundred and thirty seven thousand
dollars so in order to get that down to a balanced budget within cap
we had to take whatever actions we had to take to come down to the
budget, $25,102,000.00 to get it to the base cap. So all the saving we
took and all those fourteen (14) people helped us do was bring the
budget down to point where he cold manage it within the cap, that we
could possibly spend. He told the Mayor that his assumption is that
we had money that we could have expended within the budget after
we laid those people off. All it did was bring us down to balance the
budget. There is not any extra $300,000.00 in here from salaries.
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Mr. Raguseo said they reduced over a million dollars in salary to get
it down to $25,102,000.00 ,
-~ ,
Mayor Sica asked what this came to in steps alone.
Mr. Raguseo said the incliment in there right now is $250,000.00,
which is under contractual agreement now. This is the next step. He
said the original contract was $287,000.00, which ends June 3rd.
Mayor Sica commented that it what is going to happen next year.
Mr. Raguseo said they will think of this as a step. It is a 2%
incriment.
Mayor Sica said and always on salary you show, you show that step
incriment.
Mr. Raguseo said it was correct.
Mayor Sica said it still shows that there is going to be more money in
Social Security than is necessary unless some raises are (inaudible).
Mr. Raguseo said the raises are built big so the increase in Social
Security............
Mayor Sica said he is talking about the 1996//997 raises.
Mr. Raguseo said it is only going up $18,000.00.
Councilmember Failace said but as he commented the Mayor was
saying if the Social Security has gone up then somewhere is salaries
a number had to go up $250,000.00 in order to get $18,00000 in
Social Securities.
Mr. Crilley said if the Salary Account stayed the same and if it didn't
change and they didn't give anybody a raise and it stayed the same it
would go up $18,000.00.
Councilmember Failace said that he understood and then he went on
to speak very low making it inaudible.
Mr. Raguseo said within the steps there is additional money.
Mr. Torre and Mr. Panigrosso said that is contractual.
Mayor Sica said they had to put that money in there in anticipation of
giving some money to something based on 7.6%.
Mr. Raguseo said they told him $18,000.00 went in there.
Mayor Sica said to wipe that out.
Mr. Raguseo said he was making an assumption.
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Mayor Sica said he was not making an assumption. He said they lost
fourteen (14) people. They paid Social Security last year .
Mr. Raguseo said all the saving they got added up from everything
associated with those fourteen (14) people are back into the budget
somewhere.
Mayor Sica said he was not saying that and then he asked why they
didn't take it out of the Social Security Account.
-
Mr. Torre said he tried to say that before. He commented that maybe
he didn't explain himself too well He said that 235, that amount of
social security money is strictly for the non teaching staff and as they
said earlier they did not layoff secretaries and or custodians.
Mayor Sica said the easiest way to solve this problem is you give him
exactly how much Social Security you will pay in and by June 30th
he will (inaudible).
Mr. Torre said that is only an opinion, a non professional statement.
It is not for any teachers. It is for custodians and secretaries.
Mayor Sica said and the same amount he wants the same thing for
TPAF. Exact amount of money that you are going to payout for
TP AF as of June 30, 1996.
Mr. Raguseo asked the Mayor ifthere was an assumption there that
this money in the budget that is here, that's not written.
Mayor Sica asked Mr. Raguseo if he could tell him right now that
there would be no raises.
Mr. Raguseo said he coulrln't do that. They are in negotiations. Can't
do that by law.
Mayor Sica asked if he could tell him that there is no money in this
budget to give anybody a one dollar raise.
Mr. Raguseo said he cannot say that by law.
Mayor Sica said then what he is telling him is if there was additional
money put in the TP AF or Social Security, that means somewhere in
this budget there is dollars that will be used for raises.
Mr. Raguseo said that is an assumption that they are going to give
them the money. He is saying that prior to negotiations your
assumption is that there are no negotiations. That we already
committed that money and that is incorrect.
Mayor Sica said he didn't say they committed the money.
Mr. Raguseo said he was saying....are there monies in here. There's
2% increment in here.
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Mayor Sica said he is talking about the other raises.
,,~!
Mr. Raguseo said that has to be negotiatelØ
Mayor Sica said then there has to be money here.
Mr. Raguseo said they have to negotiate that.
Mayor Sica said he was still not answering his question. I -'lcut.
Social Security in there to cover raises........
Mr. Raguseo said under the advise of the $148,00000
counsel.... .under that diocese for renegotiation of contract they can't
disclose that information. .
Mayor Sica asked what they were sitting there for.
Janet Santoro asked the Mayor if they could just go back to what
they were doing there tonight. We are supposed to be going over the
present budget, their recommendations, their questions......
Mayor Sica said he could not make recommendations unless he has
the facts.
Janet agreed.
Mayor Sica asked her if she wanted to give him and the Council the
facts.
Janet said they are giving him the facts.
Mayor Sica said if she was to give him and this Council the facts in
private to be held by just the Board Members and the Council and the
Mayor, that is fine, but he said they are talking about assumption.
They are saying that they assume there is money there and they are
also assuming that we are not going to hire a janitor and that could
be part of the money and he is also assuming that we are going to
save $50,000.00 on insurance and he is assuming that is going to go
in there. This whole thing is an assumption on our part because all
we have are these facts, but, if they don't give us the true and
accurate facts than there is no way for him to make an educated
determination of if this budget can be cut or not.
Mr. Torre said what he has is true. Saying that hec'ce5nthave the true
and accurate facts.....which is what we have......
Mayor Sica said is what they are assuming.
Mr. Torre said no, ifhe needs backup, he will get backup The other
side of the assumption is he is assuming that any monies that might
be realized with alterations....he is sitting here saying we can't...we
are in a position where that money can be better utilized for many
things.
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Mayor Sica said what lent credence to his assumption that whatever
monies is .........and what lends real credence to his assumption that
whatever money can be realized by insurance, a janitor not being
replaced, etc., etc., is it helps to fortifY the fact that it is going to
become a reality because there is an excessive amount put in Social
Security .
Mr. Raguseo said that is a bad assumption.
Mr. Panigrosso said to the Mayor that the true question .....are we
hiding money in order to give raises.
Mayor Sica said ifhe had to go through each and every single number
it would be it would be a monumental task, but something that he can
do. He can come in here and get the actual dollar that every single
person made, every single thing that was spent, that was anticipated
to be spent and how much was actually spent and where you
transferred ........which is not done the way the Borough does it by
going in front of the public and showing the transfer. He can come in
here and do that and he will be in here tomorrow if that is what it is
going to take. He is trying to ascertain and he is trying to be as
emphatic as he possibly can that again, going back to his first
statement, public employees have outstripped the private sector's
ability to pay and raises are not something that he considers part of
the future in 1996. If he is now here, sitting here and he wants to get
the actual numbers of TP AF and Social Security and he sees that
number is not accurately reflected..... .He then commented that he
knows it is tough to hold the line on raises, but, it has to be done.
There is no alternative and if the teachers don't realize that or if the
custodians or maintenance men or administrators or whoever don't
realize that then shame on them and let them leave, whoever it is.
Whoever wants a raise you give it to them and cut somebody else.
That is what we are going to do and he wants those numbers because
as it looks to him, these numbers that he has played with were very
very conservative numbers and it showed to him that there is
$300,000.00 in this budget somewhere that can be realized and used
for salaries.
Mr. Panigrosso said he doesn't see how he just made all those
assumptions.
Mayor Sica asked how about if we make them a sociable bet that
raises will come out of this budget if he don't cut it.
Mr. Raguseo said he can't do that. He commented that he is a
negotiator and he is asking him to disclose information which can
harm us in negotiations.
Mayor Sica said he is not asking him to disclose any information... .he
is asking him to commit to where the city comes in.
Janet Santoro said you can't do that.
16
Mayor Sica said that this Council has to look very seriously in the
areas that were in question here tonight aS$he possible places that
money has been put, to overcome..... ..which he commented that they
are not ready to tell us and then what they have to do at that point in
time.........is we feel as a Councilmember or Mayor that there is
$40,000.00 in Janitorial Services or there is $50,000.00 in insurance
saving or whatever it is, then that is where they will have to
recommend making the cuts in order to put a road block in front of
their negotiations to take the money out of their possession to give
raises.
Janet Santoro told the Mayor that one thing that he made an
assumption about is that we will give these raises and the assumption
Mayor Sica told her he is not making the assumption. He told her she
is the one that is making the assumption by not being willing to state
here the fact that raises are not in the future in 199611997.
Janet Santoro said after Mondays meeting she is sure that question
can be answered. She was told that it cannot be answered in a
meeting. She said when he asked if there was a janitor that we
realized the savings, we were told it would go into Surplus. Now
they are in the middle of construction and he is saying that within our
realms there is nothing else this district needs but to ready for that.
Mayor Sica said that is not what he is saying. What he is saying that
there is a lot of things and he said to quote this Raguseo,there is a lot
of things this district needs and not raises. That is what he is saying.
Janet Santoro then asked him why is he assuming that they would go
to raises.
Mayor Sica said because of ......he sees built in dollars that would
equate out to dollars paid in raises. Social Security and TP AF.
Mr. Torre said that is your other retirement.
Mr. Panigrosso said that is a summed up statement.
Mayor Sica said ifhe sees inflated numbers there those numbers have
to reflect something somewhere. You don't put money in the Social
Security Account because your Social Security Account for your
total picture on salaries is a clearly defined number at this particular
time. If you are telling him that there is no increase in salaries.......
Janet Santoro asked him ifthey told him there was increment.
Mayor Sica said they took that into consideration and he was real
liberal with that. He said he was real liberal with the (inaudible). He
said they are not even getting into the hospitalization . You are
talking about another $100,000.00.
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Mayor Sica also told Mr. Torre he wanted to know what he paid for
hospitalization using the 322 people and what he intends to pay for
hospitalization when it is 308 people. In addition to that whatever
other benefits are waited out on those fourteen (14) people, he wants
that number.
Mr. Raguseo asked the Mayor if he comes up with all this extra
money in the budget it would be okay with him if he used this for
everything else but salaries.
Mayor Sica said yes. He said he is not against education but his point
is that enough is enough in the Salary Account.
Mr. Raguseo said if they take all the money he finds and save in this
budget and we apply it to everything else except salaries, he would
leave it in there.
Mayor Sica said he has no problem with that.
Mr. Raguseo said he will take that.
Mayor Sica said part of the equation is if they give out raises next
year they double the cut they would have made this year. He said it
is very conceivable that this budget is so complex that it would take
weeks for him to go through it line item by line item and it is very
conceivable that he could miss one or two hundred thousand dollars
We will not put anything that he finds as a savings in this budget
providing it is used for the benefit of the educational system, xing out
salaries.
Mr. Raguseo asked him if that meant nobody can ever get that
money that we cut otherwise at.
Mayor Sica said if there is additional money that he don't find that
they give out as raises, next year when they give out (inaudible)
double that.
Janet Santoro said they will take this under advise.
Mayor Sica said he thought Monday night he and the whole Council
were pretty up front. Yesterday it was reported to him that someone
unfortunately went and told all the people that number one, he was
laying off certain individuals and he earmarked to layoff certain
individuals. He said someone right after that meeting went and said
he mentioned certain peoples names in the janitorial department that
their job was a waste and we didn't need those people. In addition to
that he asked specifically about a janitor being laid off and he was
told explicticly that no janitor would be laid off or no janitors were
going to retire.
Janet Santoro asked who the individual was that said that.
Mayor Sica said he didn't know.
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Janet Santoro said she remembers the conversation and she said it
was about a janitor being on extended Sick Leave.
,...,..
Mayor Sica said it was common knowledge that back in April this
man was going to be gone in June.
Mr. Panigrosso said there was no Board action taken at the time.
A motion was made by Councilmember Bialowarczuk to adjourn the
meeting. This motion was second by Councilmember Failace. After
no further this discussion, at approximately 8:55 p.m., this meeting
was adjourned.
Respectfully submitted,
/;d¡lØ@~'!J=
''"KATHLEEN M. BARNEY
Municipal Clerk
KMB/lr
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