HomeMy Public PortalAbout09-07-2000PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING - SEPTEMBER 7, 2000
PRESENT: LENNY LEUER, BRUCE WORKMAN, JIM LANE, TOM SUPEL, JERRY
BROST AND SUSIE MACKAY. ALSO PRESENT MAYOR JOHN
FERRIS, CLERK -ADMINISTRATOR PAUL ROBINSON AND PLANNING
AND ZONING ASSISTANT SANDIE LARSON.
ABSENT: ELIZABETH WEIR
Chairperson Lenny Leuer called the meeting to order at 7:36 p.m. He explained that
this was a special meeting to address amendments to the comprehensive plan.
Paul Robinson introduced why we were here. He said that staff has had meetings with
the Metropolitan Council and there are three basic changes needed as outlined in his
memo: 1 - reduction of employment forecast; 2 - area that is in the 2020-2040 MUSA
area be designated as Urban Reserve and 3 - Flexible MUSA - capacity issues and
limitations .
Lenny Leuer asked the court reporter that was in attendance to introduce herself and
who her client was.
Julie Haskovitz introduced herself and stated she was being paid by Bill Cavanaugh, but
was not representing anyone.
The public hearing was opened.
Bill Cavanaugh, Medina property owner, asked for a map to be put up and then asked if
the ordinance was being brought up to date.
L. Leuer said there were three areas where new ordinances are being worked on: UC1 -
UC and Uptown Hamel - these are not being discussed tonight. Lenny stated that there
are 4 items that the Met council wants us to address.
B. Cavanaugh said it is to slow down residential growth.
L. Leuer went over the issues once again: 1 - Urban Reserve; 2 - employment forecast;
3 - strengthen our language on flexible MUSA - that we do not exceed our capacity until
the Elm Creek Interceptor is in place or other means are in place. - He said for the
capacity that is here, it will be 1st come, 1st served.
P. Robinson said that in 2004 we may reach our limit of 450 gallons per day - he drew
on a map and explained the MUSA within the UC1 area.
B. Cavanaugh wanted to know where he was - he wanted to know if he would have
sewer to use when the moratorium is lifted.
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P. Robinson said yes, but the ordinance has to be done and adopted also.
B. Cavanaugh said he wants to make sure his property is not slowed down. He said he
does not think that Medina's current ordinance is valid - the constitution says my
property cannot be held up. He also said that he had some residential property in the
sewer area.
There was further discussion of Bill's property - when it can be developed.
P. Robinson showed on the map which of Bill's property is UC1 and which is residential
and which can be developed with sewer.
B. Cavanaugh said he can do it according to the constitution.
P. Robinson said that 280 gallons per day is our current capacity. The Met council will
require us to stop development when we reach that capacity.
B. Cavanaugh pointed on map where the sewer stub is.
P. Robinson said it is for future use.
B. Cavanaugh said that he is a taxpayer, a U.S. citizen - I want to use it and the Met
council cannot deny it - He told Paul he would give him a copy of the constitution.
Joe Cavanaugh, Medina property owner, said he is confused. The land just west of
Tamarack (north of 55) - what restrictions are there.
P. Robinson said it depends when our capacity is reached. When the ordinance is done
and the moratorium is lifted, we have our capacity as our guideline. Our last years
average was 190,000 gallons per day and 280 is our limit. He said that 40-50% of the
capacity has been allocated.
J. Cavanaugh said to those with special privileges.
P. Robinson said that the moratorium would be lifted as each area is done, as was done
with the PUD areas.
J. Cavanaugh said we do not want our property to be pushed around - he spoke of the
rural residential behind Polaris - why did the PUD 1 get sewer and not here and when
can it be used here.
P. Robinson said sometime after 2020.
J. Cavanaugh why PUD1 now and not until 2020 for there.
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P. Robinson said that we have had many public hearings and this area has for a
number of years not been slated for sewer until after 2020.
Bruce Workman said that under the current plan (moratorium) nothing can be done on
the properties that are in the moratorium area.
Elaine Roy, 1952 Chippewa Road, asked if this plan was done when Hennepin County
had their property. She said that they have been in Medina for 48 years, they tarred
Mohawk, now going to do Chippewa, then Arrowhead - 3 roads we have to help with
and we can't do anything but grow corn - she asked the planning commissioners what
they would feel like if it was their property - does anyone agree (clapping in audience).
She wanted to know how Polaris could develop with sewer and not the Cavanaugh's.
L. Leuer said that the planning commission reacts when an application is brought before
them and the Cavanaugh's have not done that and Polaris did.
B. Cavanaugh showed a drawing of what had been done on his property in 1969 and
said it should still be that way - he said he had 10 separate parcels and 10 separate
deeds, my wife died and put me in a difficult spot - he said he had the right to do what
he wanted on his property.
Jim Lane said it is not the business of the City to clean up titles on property.
B. Cavanaugh said if they are holding it up , it is their business.
J. Lane told him if he believed your property rights have been damaged or violated then
do something about it - we do not sit up here to be insulted and berated.
L. Leuer said that the planning commission only recommends - we have no power to
make decisions. He said that now we are pretty far afield of why we are here tonight.
He suggested that Mr. Cavanaugh gets on the city council agenda. Paul said it has
been and our city attorney requested additional information from Mr. Cavanaugh and he
has not received it.
B. Workman said it is time to let others speak.
Roger Georges, Medina property owner, said that he had farmed his property on
Townline Road just west of Loretto for 30+ years - he said he is not a tree hugger and
would like to be able to develop his property - he said he thinks this Urban Reserve
designation will help them and being able to have sewer in 20-40 years is better than
what we have now.
L. Leuer said he remembered when Mr. Georges was here and wanted his property to
be rural residential and not commercial.
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R. Georges said that he has 45 acres and according to today's ordinance can only have
one house on it.
L. Leuer said the sewer in that area comes from Lake Sarah to Independence and that
was a bail out for the houses on Lake Sarah.
R. Georges said the end result is he would like to develop and wanted to know who they
could go to, to speed things up - Loretto?
L. Leuer said that Loretto has holding ponds for their sewer system and that is regulated
thru the PCA - Loretto is their own entity and their system is full. He said that the Met
Council views Loretto as a growth city and they are anticipating that their sewer plant
will fail and they (Met Council) will have to bail them out.
R. Georges said that he came to find out who to go to, to speed things up.
L. Leuer said again that the Met Council sees this as a growth area and will need to do
something in the future. Lenny explained why not to put a house in the middle of 40
acres, so that when sewer does come in the future, the land will be able to be
developed with the smaller lots.
R. Georges wanted to know if Loretto had the capacity, could we approach them and
Lenny said he did not know.
B. Workman said that nobody knows what will happen - things tend to change every
couple of years.
Yvonne Miller, 4662 County Road 11, asked if Urban Reserve instead of permanent
rural was to their advantage.
B. Workman said yes, it you want to develop your property.
R. Georges said he would like to be on record as being in favor of the Urban Reserve.
Bernie Wendland, 4665 County Road 11, said he is also in favor of it - the sooner the
better.
Joe Janetka, 3505 County Road 19, asked if the pipe is up to 19, do I pay for it and am
required to hook up.
P. Robinson said that some projects have been assessed based on footage and some
on acres - more likely would be done on acres and whether you are required to hoop up
depends on the situation.
Tom Supel said the question is an assessment and the answer is yes.
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Gary Mutchler, 4125 Chippewa Road, said that he has 6 acres and the reason he
bought it was to keep it rural - he said a ghost plat is one step further to assessments,
etc.
B. Workman said if you never want to do anything, you don't have to. He said it is up to
the city council if you are assessed at the time sewer would be brought to your area.
L. Leuer said it is usually more of pressure of neighbors on what you do.
B. Workman said this is interesting times, some people like the larger parcels and
others want smaller.
G. Mutchler said his concern is parcels smaller than 5 acres and zoning it is one step
closer -
B. Workman said that we will recommend to the city council and the city council will deal
with it at a special city council meeting on Monday at 5 p.m. - he said lots of time has
gone into this, there have been several meetings including public hearings - he said we
are trying to do what is best for the city and the only guarantee is change.
Scott Oare, 150 Navajo Road, wanted to know how this affects Navajo Road where he
is.
P. Robinson - said no change - still in the 2020-2040 time frame for sewer - only the
name change of the addition of the term Urban Reserve is being added.
Dorothy Anderson, 100 Navajo Road, said there are only 5 homes on this road, why 3
of us in the Urban Reserve and not the other 2.
P. Robinson said there has to be a line drawn and this line was drawn to match the line
to the west - when the line is on a road, there is always one side that is designated for
sewer and the other side not.
B. Wendland asked if the force main coming from Lake Sarah failed, will the Met
Council update it or what - put in an interceptor.
P. Robinson said that a part of the line by Baker Park did fail and it was fixed at a cost
of $80,000 and that cost was shared by Greenfield, Independence and Medina.
There was further discussion of the Met Council, etc.
MOVED BY JIM LANE AND SECONDED BY TOM SUPEL TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC
HEARING.
MOTION PASSED. The public hearing was closed at 8:41 p.m.
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L. Leuer said the request is for the Urban Reserve area to be designated as shown on
the map that Paul has given us - there have been other areas of the city where it could
grow - he said he understands why the area by Loretto was chosen, but he has also
looked at the other side of town - the Holy Name Lake area is a failing area to be bailed
out. He wanted to know if any other planning commissioners had any areas that made
sense to include in the Urban Reserve.
Susie Mackay said instead of north and south of Loretto, why not straight across north
of Loretto.
B. Workman said it sounds like tonight they don't want it taken out of the Loretto area as
shown. He said the residents have to say what they want and be very clear about it - he
said he hates to see it at the last minutes and is where we are at now.
S. Mackay said the east side of the city that abuts Plymouth would be a good area so it
fits in more with what is in Plymouth.
P. Robinson said that the city council did approve the concept of what is shown on
tonight's map and the Met Council has also approved it - he drew on the map the areas
that Lenny is talking about and said that we are under a timeline, that our comp plan
was on the Met Council's agenda for the 13th and any changes could jeopardize the
development on the Elwell site
Carolyn Smith said that is not the only thing at stake - this is a compromise for what the
Met Council originally wanted.
P. Robinson showed on the map the areas that Lenny was suggesting.
There was further discussion on whether to modify the area to be shown as Urban
Reserve.
T. Supel said that there were lots of alternatives and if we were at the beginning of the
comp plan process and not at the end, it might be different, but since we are at the end,
his analysis is that this proposal will benefit both sides. He said if we were to adopt a
different proposal this would jeopardize the Met Council approving our plan and might
delay a number of things - so he said that leads him to say he has difficulty supporting
an alternative and would support what is in front of us tonight.
B. Workman said he is concerned, that he is trying for this not to be a rubber stamp - he
said he feels there is a reason to listen and look at alternatives and he said he would
make a motion for his alternative (putting all RR north of 55 into Urban Reserve to have
sewer by 2020).
Jerry Brost wanted to know if we legally could go ahead with something different without
notifying landowners.
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L. Leuer said no - we could not go ahead without notifying them.
B. Workman said change is difficult for everybody.
J. Brost said if there were 4 options and all were wonderful, it would still be
inappropriate to go ahead without input from the landowners.
B. Workman said isn't our ultimate goal to satisfy the residents/landowners in Medina.
S. Mackay wanted to know what our obligation to the Met Council was vs our obligation
to the citizens and what is our obligation tonight.
P. Robinson put up the original map and said that tonight the planning commission is to
make a recommendation to the city council on the items in his memo.
S. Mackay asked if we have to do it to get what we want.
P. Robinson said there is a relationship with the Met Council and we do want something
from them - sewer for the commercial areas up and down 55, so we are trying to
compromise.
C. Smith said there have been numerous public hearings and meetings over the last 2+
years and we have heard much from the public - tonight's public hearing does not
negate what we have already heard - we want sewer for the commercial along 55 and
also residential north of 55 - that is what we want from the Met Council.
P. Robinson said that the size of the pipe today will be based on the Urban Reserve
areas.
T. Supel said he views our task to work with the Met Council.
J. Lane said he is sympathetic to the logic of reserving land around Loretto and around
Hamel next to Plymouth. He said he defers to Paul and those who have had direct
dealings with the Met Council.
S. Mackay asked what the possibility of the Elwell project being lost if we wait.
P. Robinson said we don't know - the closing on the property is the 21st of this month
and they would like preliminary approval before that.
There was further discussion on why we are where we are at with the Met Council,
comp plan, etc.
L. Leuer said that there are three things before us: 1. Employment forecast, 2. Sewer
staging and 3. Urban reserve area.
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Urban Reserve Area:
MOVED BY BRUCE WORKMAN TO MOVE THE 2020 LINE TO THE TOP OF THE
MAP.
Anthony Sundin, 1525 Hackamore Road, said he would be in favor of Bruce's motion.
P. Robinson said that comp plan amendments can always be done after it is approved.
L. Leuer said we are shooting ourselves in the foot if we take acreage out of the urban
reserve.
No second - motion dead
MOVED BY SUSIE MACKAY AND SECONDED BY TOM SUPEL TO RECOMMEND
TO THE CITY COUNCIL TO APPROVE THE PROPOSED PLAN FOR URBAN
RESERVE.
J. Brost asked if we are saying we are oking what is before us and we could go for
amendment later.
S. Mackay said she is doing it because she does not want to risk losing the Elwell
project and as long as we have the option for amendments later.
MOTION PASSED
Employment Forecast:
MOVED BY BRUCE WORKMAN AND SECONDED BY JERRY BROST TO
RECOMMEND ACCEPTING THE REVISED EMPLOYMENT FORECAST FIGURES.
MOTION PASSED.
Additional language for MUSA staging:
MOVED BY BRUCE WORKMAN AND SECONDED BY TOM SUPEL TO
RECOMMEND ACCEPTING THE REVISED LANGUAGE FOR THE MUSA STAGING.
There was some discussion of the implications of this wording and Paul explained.
MOTION PASSED.
There was some continued discussion of amendments, that in urban reserve the
zoning would be 1 house per 40 acres unless a ghost plat is done showing 3 units per
acre, then development could occur the same as today (5 acres of good contiguous
soils). Amendments are usually done at a landowners request.
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Susie said it is important to look at alternatives.
Paul said that overlays are already a part of our ordinance, but the Met Council wants it
clarified.
MOVED BY JIM LANE AND SECONDED BY TOM SUPEL TO ADJOURN.
MOTION PASSED.
Meeting adjourned at 9:37 p.m.
Planning and Zoning Assistant Date
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