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HomeMy Public PortalAbout2021_tcwsmin0809Council Work Session August 9, 2021 Council Chamber, 25 West Market Street, 7:00 p.m. Mayor Kelly Burk presiding. Council Members Present: Zach Cummings, Suzanne Fox, Vice Mayor Martinez, Kari Nacy, Neil Steinberg and Mayor Kelly Burk. Council Members Absent: Ara Bagdasarian. Staff Present: Town Attorney Christopher Spera, Deputy Town Manager Keith Markel, Director of Parks and Recreation Rich Williams, Director of Public Works and Capital Projects Renee LaFollette, Director of Economic Development Russell Seymour, Chief of Police Greg Brown, Deputy Director Parks and Recreation Kate Trask, and Clerk of Council Eileen Boeing. Minutes prepared by Deputy Clerk of Council Choi Chan. AGENDA ITEMS 1. Items for Discussion Mayor Burk requested item 1.d. Restriction on Firearms in Town Buildings and Other Town Property be moved to item 1.a. on the agenda. There were no objections. a. Restriction on Firearms in Town Buildings and Other Town Property Mr. Christopher Spera presented Council with explanations on what the Town can and cannot do with respect to the restriction of firearms in Town Buildings and Other Town Property. Council and staff discussed the item. It was the consensus of Council to have the Town Attorney and the Town Manager present additional information at a future Work Session regarding limiting firearms in the Town Hall. b. Additional Community Events Ms. Kate Trask provided Council with an overview of all community events handled by the Parks and Recreation Department in response to the request from the Council Retreat. Council and staff discussed the item. c. Plastic Bag Tax Ordinance Ms. Renee LaFollette provided Council with a summary of House Bill No. 254 and Senate Bill No. 11, both enacted during the 2020 General Assembly which provides for the Plastic Bag Tax. The legislation specifically states that any County or City, may adopt an ordinance imposing a tax on disposal plastic bags provided to consumers, but it does not include Towns. Council and staff discussed the item. d. Liberty Lot Property — Potential Public Private Partnership Project Mr. Christopher Spera presented Council with examples of public -private partnerships at other jurisdictions that may be applicable to the Liberty Lot Property. Council and staff discussed the item. 1 Page Council Work Session August 9, 2021 It was the consensus of the Council for staff to receive community input for uses for the site and to determine the cost for a site soil analysis/remediation. 2. Additions to Future Council Meetings Council Member Nacy requested a Work Session discussion as to why the Standing Residential Traffic Committee (SRTC) is not a paid commission. It was the consensus of Council to add this item to a future Work Session discussion. Vice Mayor Martinez requested a letter to be sent under the Mayor's signature to Loudoun County regarding implementation of a plastic bag tax. It was the consensus of Council to send the letter to Loudoun County. Council Member Steinberg requested a letter to be sent under the Mayor's signature in opposition to the Rockwool Plant in Ranson, West Virginia. It was the consensus of Council to send a letter in opposition to the Rockwool Plant. Council Member Fox requested a Work Session discussion on mask wearing in Town buildings. There was no consensus to add this item to a future Work Session. 3. Adjournment On a motion by Vice Mayor Martinez, seconded by Council Member Cummings, the meeting was adjourned at 8:27 p.m. Clerk of Council 2021_tcwsmin0809 2 'Page August 9, 2021 — Town Council Work Session (Note: This is a transcript prepared by a Town contractor based on the video of the meeting. It may not be entirely accurate. For greater accuracy, we encourage you to review the video of the meeting that is on the Town's Web site — www.leesburgva.gov or refer to the approved Council meeting minutes. Council meeting videos are retained for three calendar years after a meeting per Library of Virginia Records Retention guidelines.) Mayor Kelly Burk: Call to order tonight's Town Council work session. Tonight, is the work session of the Leesburg Town Council. The general purpose of a work session is for the Council to get input from and ask questions of staff as we consider future action items. Pursuant to the Rules of Procedure this Council has adopted for the work sessions, nothing will be voted upon this evening and no legislative action will be taken. While the public is welcome to attend, and we welcome you, and observe what we do tonight at this work session, there will be no public speakers or public comments. In the event Council directs staff to prepare any proposed ordinances, those ordinances will be voted on at a future time at a regular legislative meeting of the Council on a Tuesday. At that time, we will have a public hearing, when the public will be invited to speak pursuant to the rules, procedures governing such hearing. We have nobody that is participating remotely today, Ms. Boeing? All right. With the agreement of the Council members, we are moving the restriction on firearms in Town buildings and other Town properties to the first item tonight. Mr. Spera? Christopher Spera: Madam Mayor, members of Council, you asked me to explain what it is that we can and can't do with respect to these types of restrictions. The State Code section that's applicable here is 15.2-915, that was adopted by the General Assembly in 2020. Pursuant to that State Code section, some of the other Northern Virginia jurisdictions have adopted their own version of a firearms control ordinance. Basically, what the State Code section allows you to do is the locality can regulate firearms or ammunition in a building, whether it is owned or rented by the government. I want to be clear; this is not an all or nothing. There's a list of things that you can do, but you don't have to do all of them. You can pick and choose as you see fit, should you choose to move this forward. The list of places where firearms can be regulated are public parks owned or operated by the locality, recreation and community centers owned or operated by the locality, streets or sidewalks, or any other public facilities open to the public. It does not have to be owned; it can be rental space. If we are renting space, we can adopt that same rule in the space that we rent, but if we only rent a portion of the building, the prohibition only applies to the portion that we are renting. In addition, the State Code section expressly empowers reasonable security measures. The specific examples here include, are metal detectors and increased security personnel. As long as the security measures are reasonable, they can be adopted to further the prohibition that was put in place. There are a variety of exemptions, and those exemptions include ROTC training, collegiate shooting teams, law enforcement personnel, military personnel, properly licensed private security, et cetera. So that's basically the canvas on which we are painting. If you would like us to go forward, I need some direction from you in terms of what to prepare. I am happy to answer any questions. The one thing I do want to be clear about is, you don't have to follow everything that's in there. It is a question of what's your will as a Council plus some practical factors with respect to enforceability and cost and other things. All of that is fair as part of your discussion. I'm happy to answer any questions that you have. Mayor Burk: Mr. Steinberg, do you have any questions? Council Member Neil Steinberg: Yes. Thank you, Mayor, and thanks for the presentation. I don't have any specific questions at this moment. I think this is a situation that as a Council we need to explore and I'm certainly going to be in favor of moving it forward so that we can get as much information as possible as we render a decision. Personally, when we brought this forward to explore, I wasn't envisioning parks and events and things of that nature, I had more in mind this particular building and Page 11 August 9, 2021 several others that fall under the Town's jurisdiction, and that's where I would be likely to be concentrating my questions and concerns. So for now, no questions, and I'll wait to see where this goes. Thanks. Mayor Burk: Ms. Fox. Council Member Suzanne Fox: I have some questions and some comments. My first question is, this Section 15.2-915, how many lawsuits have been filed against the State and municipality regarding this particular step? Christopher Spera: I'm aware of none filed against the State. I believe there are two that have been filed with respect to localities. Council Member Fox: [inaudible] As far as security measures, you mentioned the metal detectors and extra security. I would probably be in favor of extra security. As a matter of fact, we have an expert who actually sits on the Council, and we should probably consult with him because I do know that there're some who are nervous and actually worried about, is trying to prevent any sort of gun violence. The action to actually ban guns would literally do nothing. My bigger question is if we went from just Council Chambers to parks, streets, and things like that, my understanding is that if we restrict flow of any sort of motion, people coming within Leesburg and they are walking the streets, and they happened to have a sidearm or a handgun or a concealed weapon, they'd be in violation. Is there any Constitutionality issue with that? Christopher Spera: The Heller case is the last time the Supreme Court spoke on this, in a sort of fulsome nature, that was in 2008. The Heller case had to do with, it was the District of Columbia v. Heller. In that case, DC had imposed a law that require that handguns within homes had to either be disassembled or have a trigger lock. And that case went to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court said, "You can't do that, that's interfering with the right to bear arms to protect your home." Then the Supreme Court went on to note that nothing in the ruling with respect to the DC law interfered with long-established principles that allowed other types of regulation, and that included with respect to public property, with respect to schools, with respect to issues for licensing or permits for gun sellers, with respect to not selling weapons to people with mental disabilities, those types of things. That's all in the DC v. Heller case. So the Heller case leaves it open that the government can regulate within government -controlled space. I am not aware of a case that specifically rules upon the issue that you asked about, that if there was a prohibition on carrying a firearm in a public street, I have not seen that yet. Council Member Fox: I think that's one of the provisions here. Especially adjacent to an event. Christopher Spera: That's correct. That is one of the things that is allowed under §15.2-915. I'm just not aware of any case that has specifically ruled upon that. Again, I guess, it's the third time but I'll say it again because I think it's important, is that those Sections are not all or nothing, you can choose, it's a menu for you to choose from. Council Member Fox: I just have a few comments on this. I feel like what we're suggesting here, the ban of firearms, substantially burdens a fundamental right that is articulated in our constitution [inaudible]. We as a Town at this point are unable to show any sort of compelling state interest necessitating the proposed action of banning guns on Town property. If we are talking about the banning of guns, not just at Town hall, but at other places, I feel like that rises to the level of a substantial burden on the fundamental [inaudible]. There's no evidence to suggest that restricting law-abiding citizens' right to bear arms, in a given venue makes that venue safer from those who wish to do harm. There are legal challenges all over the country as it pertains to exactly what we're proposing tonight, and I don't feel like, to get wrapped up in that. Page 21 August 9, 2021 The entire proposal is premised on the idea that gun violence is typically a product of otherwise law- abiding citizens who are carrying firearms in public and they suddenly snap is a complete fiction. The number of public gun violence incidents that occur in this way is vanishingly small, yet this is the only possible scenario that would measure, this measure that we would be doing tonight would actually protect from. Public gun violence is almost always committed by someone who has planned violence in advance, that notion that a mass shooter or other violent individual, intent on doing harm would come down to Town Hall or to another venue here in our Town; get to the front door or the entrance of the event and read a sign that says "no firearms allowed" will simply turn around and go home is pretty much ludicrous. Literally, no one is safer. In my opinion, this action actually could, and there is evidence to this, could invite gun violence and we're probably inviting some legal challenges as well and I don't feel like that's a great thing for us. Many might feel safer, but the downside is we're violating some Constitutional rights. Not discussing this tonight to solve a problem or because there's a real need at this point, not to take action only because we can, and I think it's grossly inappropriate. Mayor Burk: Mr. Cummings? Council Member Zach Cummings: Yes, I don't have any questions. From my standpoint, I think it would be pretty difficult to limit within Town parks and at events and other venues off -campus here. However, having worked across the country with other elected officials and in other capitals, both state and in the Federal Capitol, I don't think it's a bad idea to not allow guns in our Town Hall, as well as having metal detectors and guards on duty, just with the way everything is going these days. So I'd be willing to see some numbers and see from staff how we can go about doing that. Mayor Burk: Ms. Nacy? Council Member Kari Nacy: Thank you. I guess one of my questions would be, it's sort of a blanket statement to say we're going to ban guns. I would like to see a little more information on what other Council Members are thinking for that. That being said, I will likely oppose anything that you put forward because it will personally affect me as a responsibly armed woman who has been attacked and uses personal protection to ensure that that never happens to me again. So I guess that's it. Thank you. Mayor Burk: Vice Mayor. Vice Mayor Fernando "Marty" Martinez: Is it possible that if we move forward and we get more discussion on this, that you can give us what exceptions the County allowed for, and then provide in a menu type way that we can select what we want to do? For example, menu 1 prohibits firearms in government buildings, 2 would be Ida Lee, 3 would be Parks & Rec., 4 would be other Town buildings. So that way we have the ability to choose what we want done and what we don't want. Christopher Spera: Mr. Vice Mayor, I attached to the staff memo the Ordinances as adopted in Loudoun, that was Attachment two, in Alexandria City, Arlington County, and Fairfax County. The second attachment is the County Ordinance. Vice Mayor Martinez: My apologies. I didn't scroll down far enough to see them. Christopher Spera: I think to get to the question that you and I think Ms. Fox alluded to, the County did not go so far as I read, their adopted ordinance to go into the streets as I read the Loudoun County Ordinance, its buildings owned or operated by the County. They did add parks and rec. centers or community centers, and then buildings that are rented by the County, but they did not go so far as to include streets and sidewalks and other public areas. The exceptions, Mr. Vice Mayor, that are included in the Loudoun County Ordinance are sworn law enforcement personnel, private security personnel, security personnel at special events, active -duty military, then the ROTC and NCAA, stuff that I alluded to in my presentation. Historical reenactments Page 31 August 9, 2021 or deer hunting and then there's also an exception for individuals who are authorized security concealed weapons pursuant to Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act. Those are typically retired officers; they'd get a certification from their prior employer and that allows them to carry. Then there's another exception for firearms or ammunition locked in a private vehicle that's lawfully parked. So for example, if you were a person that were carrying firearm and you wanted to go into a rec. center, a county rec center, and you lock your weapon in your vehicle, even though technically that vehicle is on public property, that's okay. Those are the exceptions in the County Ordinance as well as the areas of regulation. Mayor Burk: Right, just a couple of things. I'm not interested in restricting the parks or any other building except this particular building. This is where people come when things have happened that they are not happy with. I know some of us have been here long enough to know that we've been threatened before. While I don't care to carry a gun, I would like to feel like I'm safe in the building. For me, just looking at this Town Hall is where I would like to focus my efforts in regard to this. I believe that there are a lot of law-abiding citizens that most certainly carry guns, but there's also other individuals that do have more nefarious ideas and we have had some situations that have been very, very touchy here. I think as elected official, it's our responsibility to make sure that everyone is safe. I would hope that we would go forward with looking at creating the ordinance so that we could limit access to carry guns in the Town Hall. Ms. Fox, I see you have additional comment. Council Member Fox: Yes, I just want to follow up. Mr. Spera, you said that the County has done some certain things, may I ask what measures they took in their buildings and at their parks to make them secure? Christopher Spera: I don't know. Council Member Fox: You don't know? Christopher Spera: No, ma'am. Council Member Fox: Okay. Christopher Spera: I did not ask them. I've been over to the County Building, I did not have to pass through a metal detector, I know that. Council Member Fox: Oh, it's a metal detector. Mayor Burk: Are in the process of creating that. I was over there the other day. Council Member Fox: At that building? Mayor Burk: Yes. Well, the three buildings. They have three buildings that they will have metal detectors, but not in the parks. Council Member Fox: I'm not going to downplay the folks feeling uncomfortable. I get that, it's a touchy situation and that's what the Mayor said. There have been touchy situations before but if that's the case, I think our focus needs to be on mitigating that touchy situation, added security, something, but not the banning of firearms in a public place. Mayor Burk: Mr. Steinberg? Council Member Steinberg: I would like to expand the list for exploration at least beyond just this building. I think we should at least get the information what would be involved with including Ida Lee, and we have two important facilities which are not particularly accessible by the public but are still a sense of buildings. One would be the water treatment plant, the other would be the wastewater treatment plant. I would at least like those four buildings on the list. Page 41 August 9, 2021 Mayor Burk: The water treatment plant and the sewer plant, both of them are not accessible by the public. Council Member Steinberg: I understand. Mayor Burk: All right. I just wanted to make sure you knew that. Okay, then, let me break it up this way, are there four people that are interested in pursuing this change to our ordinance and would like to be provided more information in regard to the action of limiting guns to Town property? That would be Mr. Steinberg, Mr. Cummings, Mr. Martinez, and myself. Mr. Steinberg asked that three additional buildings be added to the Town hall. Do we have four people that would be willing to at least listen to that information? Okay, that's Mr. Steinberg and Mr. Martinez. I would hesitate just because there's no access publicly at this point, there anyway. Do you have enough information to move forward? Christopher Spera: So do you want me to draft an ordinance, or do you want us to put together the information regarding costs and potential [inaudible]? Mayor Burk: I think we need information. Christopher Spera: Sorry, I think then, I'll work with Mr. Dentler to find a work session date. We will pull this information together for you regarding potential security measures, both, and you want to limit it just here to Town Hall or to the Rec. Center as well? Mayor Burk: But we only had four votes for the Town hall. Christopher Spera: Okay. You ask them, basically, it was Mr. Steinberg's list of four. I thought I heard Mr. Cummings feel comfortable with the Rec Center, but not the other, the non -accessible. No, just for here. Perfect, then I know what I need to do. Mayor Burk: All right. Christopher Spera: It'll be a work session item, it will not be an ordinance, and then once we present you that information, you'll give us direction if you'd like to proceed further with an ordinance, and at that time, as you all know, there'll be a public hearing, if that ordinance moves forward. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Mayor Burk: For the public's understanding, we are not making any legislative decisions tonight, it will come back at another date, another work session with information, from that, we will then decide if we want to make change to the ordinance. It will all be public, and you all are welcome to come and speak at the public hearing, but at the next work session, it's just like this one, you're welcome to come and observe, but there will be no speaking. This is for Council to have their discussion with staff. Thank you all very much and we will move on to our next item. Next item is the Liberty Lot request proposal. Christopher Spera: Are we going into reverse order? Mayor Burk: No, Kate, I'm sorry. I missed it. Kate Trask: However, you want, Madam Mayor. Mayor Burk: Sorry about that. Christopher Spera: Are we going to do the community events or are we going to do Liberty Lot? Mayor Burk: Yes, we're going to do community events. Christopher Spera: Okay. Perfect. Mayor Burk: I'm sorry, I crossed it out when I changed them. Sorry. Page 51 August 9, 2021 Kate Trask: That's okay. Okay, we'll get started. Good evening, Madam Mayor, Council. Before you tonight, the discussion comes from your April retreat, where you added to a future discussion the topic of creating additional community events. What's the purpose of having a community event for Leesburg? We have always strongly felt, and it is proven that events are economic drivers for the Town. They obviously bring local and regional visitors to our businesses, not just our brick and mortars, but also the vendors that are participating in the event itself. Events also helped to build Leesburg's community pride and a sense of belonging. Who puts on these events in the Town of Leesburg? There's a large group of folks that do this. In the first column there, the Town -produced events, we have several different types of events. If you saw in your memo, we tried to define those for you. Town -produced events were the ones that you're most familiar with, hopefully, that staff puts on. That's the Parks & Recreation events team along with the support of the Community Events Committee, which is that group of Public Works and the Police Department and Economic Development and the Town Attorney's Office, then our Public Information Office. Then there's also smaller events that our Parks and Recreation program and fitness staff do such as the Easter Egg Hunt, or the Annual Dog Swim. Economic Development also plays a small role in producing events such as the Job Expo, really helps us in promoting the benefit of events through our businesses as a great location to come. Other events which are Town -sponsored events, meaning the Town has supported it somehow perhaps with a donation or a waived -fee, and Town -permitted events, those are the events that have gone through the application process and have been issued a permit to be held. Obviously, anybody can be a Town -sponsored or Town -permitted event, your businesses, your nonprofits, your for -profits, clubs, and a lot of churches in the last year given that everybody wants to hold their events outside with a pandemic. We produced, the Town staff, produced 28 events a year, so the large events, Flower and Garden, Fourth of July, TASTE, which is Saturday, the Air Show as well as the Holiday in Leesburg events along with your smaller events such as Acoustic on the Green or the Movies over at the Courthouse and our art and craft shows, and our parades. What you might not know and hopefully you found that surprising in the memo, is that there's over 80 permitted events each year. This is what staff, in particular, our event staff help with. These are the permits when somebody wants to hold a March, they want to hold an event in Ida Lee Park. These are all those events that go in conjunction along with what the Town is producing. Currently, today, there are ten permits sitting on Linda Fountain's desk. Linda is our events manager. Ten permits for events that are coming up in the next couple of weeks and a few next month that we're working through in terms of, "Where is it going to happen? How is it going to happen? What do you need?" That, in summary, where are they held? Our popular locations, obviously downtown Leesburg, our park pavilions throughout different parks, the Ida Lee festival field, quite popular. We also get a lot of requests for the Loudoun County Courthouse lawn that come to us, and we help negotiate that because sometimes there are street closures, as well as at churches and schools. Obviously, events are seasonal, primarily April through October. A number of events here in Town are annual, reoccurring events, and then you get your seasonal ones that are your holiday -based events and your fall festivals. There are two parts to bringing an event online, and that's the planning and the producing. Obviously, the planning are the first steps that we take, or any event's organizer should take in determining what kind of event are they going to have. I bring to your attention that an event isn't an overnight process. For instance, TASTE, that's coming up on Saturday, took staff from the first idea that came out of an Economic Development session. It took us a little over two years to actually bring that to fruition so that we had all the details, the inputs from the community, we knew where the best location was, what the tourism data was to support it in August. It takes a lot of initial early -stage planning to have a successful event. Then you get into that producing stage, which is the logistics, "Where am 1 having it? How big can it be? Do I need tickets? How much is it going to cost? Who do I need to support this event? Who is going Page 61 August 9, 2021 to do the emergency management or the security?" Those are steps for any event organizer, whether it's the Town staff or whether it's somebody coming forward to be permitted. Then, of course, after those two steps, is the fun part, and that's the implementing the event. That is a quick summary of the memo that was put before you. I will turn that over to you for any questions. Mayor Burk: Ms. Nacy, do you have any question? Council Member Nacy: I do not, thank you. That's great data to have. Kate Trask: Thank you. Mayor Burk: Mr. Martinez? Vice Mayor Martinez: You mentioned that we have 28 events, how many of those are Town - sponsored? Kate Trask: Town -sponsored, those 28 events that I referenced are all Town -produced. Vice Mayor Martinez: How much? I guess the reason I'm asking is because the largest ones we do, for example, the Flower and Garden show, I assume we handle? Kate Trask: That's a Town -produced event. Vice Mayor Martinez: What about the Air Show? Kate Trask: Town -produced. Vice Mayor Martinez: Halloween Parade? Kate Trask: That is a Town -sponsored event. Vice Mayor Martinez: Okay. What about the Christmas Parade? Kate Trask: Town -produced. Vice Mayor Martinez: Town -produced, and what about the July 4th? Kate Trask: Town -produced. Vice Mayor Martinez: What I named was five events that really take over or are really huge. I would like to see us do more of those that bring people to downtown. Again, I'll say again, on Oktoberfest, I would love to see August Court Days back. Other things like that. I don't know what the possibility is to establish those or how much extra resources you will need to handle those, but I know probably other than the Christmas Parade; December, January, February, are probably months that we really can't hold any outdoor events, but I would love to see us have at least one big event that draws people to downtown a month. Again, I know that's going to cost additional resources and time, money, and personnel, but there's still a couple of other events, August Court Days and Oktoberfest, I think that we can add that just transition from one month to the other. Anyway, those are my comments. I do have one question that you could probably come back to me later. Have you itemized the cost of the Town for each event? Kate Trask: Yes. Vice Mayor Martinez: Is there a way we can get a listing and the cost associated with each one? Page 71 August 9, 2021 Kate Trask: Absolutely. I apologize, Vice Mayor. For Town -produced events, I can certainly give you that itemized. Vice Mayor Martinez: Right. Are we still doing Movie under the Stars or something like that? Kate Trask: Yes. It's being held on the Courthouse grounds. Vice Mayor Martinez: Okay. A list of the events and what they cost I think would be helpful, at least for me to see what we got, unless nobody else cares. Anyway, whatever you can do would be helpful. Mayor Burk: Mr. Cummings? Council Member Cummings: First, the events are great. The Town staff does a wonderful job. I know it's a lot of work. One question I had was, obviously, your time is strapped, and the budgets are tight. I think the area that we could maybe try to help push up is private events that we partner with, for lack of a better term. Is there anything that we can do or that we need to do as Council to increase those private events here in the Town of Leesburg? Kate Trask: That's a good question that I'd love to do a little bit more thought process on and maybe work with Economic Development. Council Member Cummings: That'd be fine. I know we can't get any more time, we only have 24 hours a day. If we can have other people do the hard work, and just work with you to make sure it's done legally and appropriately, we can continue to build that economic driver that I think Vice Mayor Martinez is talking about, without you having to, you can focus on TASTE and the Flower and Garden and the other festivals. Thank you for all your work. Kate Trask: Absolutely. Mayor Burk: Mr. Steinberg? Council Member Steinberg: Thanks for the presentation. What I was envisioning, I'm not sure I would concur that we need an event a month. I think that we have enough smaller types of events going on at a regular basis. We have First Friday in the summer, we have Acoustic on the Green, and a variety of smaller things. It seems to me our biggest event by far has got to be the Flower and Garden Show, and we have nothing else like it for the rest of the year. I was thinking, if nothing else that we might consider that's a spring event, if we had a fall event, something on that scale, then obviously, for the rest of the year, we're sort of littered with all these other smaller events, that's one of the things I had in mind and whether that comes straight from the Town or we can partner with the private interest, that is an interesting idea. That's what I had in mind, that sort of a spring event, fall event, that kind of thing. Thanks. Mayor Burk: Ms. Fox? Council Member Fox: I'm going to echo some of these. First of all, you said 80 events, and that's a lot to take care of. Does your staff, Parks & Rec staff ever feel overwhelmed? Kate Trask: Yes Council Member Fox: That's first and foremost here. Kate Trask: To that question, yes. Council Member Fox: You do. Okay, adding events would be tough? Page 81 August 9, 2021 Kate Trask: It is. If I could say, to the point of private events, they're definitely something, just to give you an example, the Juneteenth Burg family reunion was a private park rental, but it does still take a lot of staff time to get those things up and running and online, the car shows and other large events that happens in September, a lot of staff time on that, too. We have a group who's reaching out to us for renting the park hopefully next July for a jazz festival. And again, whether it's Town -produced or Town - permitted, it does take staff time. I've never done an analysis to tell you how much of which, but yes, of course, it's seasonal. Council Member Fox: Stretched at this point. Kate Trask: Yes, ma'am. Council Member Fox: Well, I don't want to stretch any further, but if you feel like you want to be stretched further, I just have some suggestions. This is just to put out there. I love the August Court Days and the Oktoberfest idea. Frederick does something called In the Streets in October and it is a big festival type thing where, there are vendors, there are crafters, there are restaurants, there's just a big [inaudible], and we close the streets a lot already and we got a lot of positive feedback on that. People want us to continue to close it [inaudible] to have and I just got a lot of feedback on that just today. The other one I was thinking of is First Night. Now, I know we have the holiday parade, but First Night was something that was going on when I first moved here, and the August Court Days, both of those went away and I was really sad to see them go. Those are the four things that I don't know if we can add something, take something away, but those are the four things that I'd like to see and it would cover the span of the year, in my opinion. You have something all throughout the year. But upon hearing the 80 events, I paused and said, only if we're able. That's my input. Thanks. Kate Trask: Sorry. Council Member Fox, you said four events, Oktoberfest, August Court Days, First Night? Council Member Fox: [inaudible]. Kate Trask: Art in the Streets. Council Member Fox: We could actually co -mingle that with an Oktoberfest maybe, [inaudible] have to be just food and drink, we could do crafters and it's kind of fall [inaudible]. Kate Trask: Okay. Thank you. Mayor Burk: [inaudible] Besides the 80 events, how many private events do [inaudible]. Kate Trask: Private. Mayor Burk: [inaudible] at 80. Kate Trask: That is part of the 80. Those are part of the 80 because those are permitted events. Mayor Burk: How many does the Town put on itself? Kate Trask: That would be the 28. Mayor Burk: 80 includes the Town events? Kate Trask: No. Mayor Burk: So, we're really talking about. Page 91 August 9, 2021 Kate Trask: Over 100. Mayor Burk: Over 100 events. Thank you. Kate Trask: That counts each individual concert. Mayor Burk: I have seen firsthand what's involved with getting a private event, still, even though the Town is not putting it on, the amount of time that staff is required in those private events is astounding. The Juneteenth was a fantastic event. It was wonderful in every way, but there was Town staff there the whole time. And I know you meet before, and you meet with the other groups, and you have to help them to understand what they have to get. It's new, they're trying to figure out how to do it, so they really rely on staff. I think that if we go along with any of these ideas, which I think are great ideas, I think we need to look at an increased in staffing. I don't think we can continue to ask the staff to do all that they're doing with the continued demand. If you only could see what Kate and the staff has done for the VML Conference and that's a dinner one night. It's astounding how much effort and work goes into creating an event. I would just caution that, like Mr. Martinez and Ms. Fox said, and Mr. Cummings' idea, they're all great ideas, and I'd love to see them, but I want to make sure that we are doing them in a way that doesn't end up, that we're not doing a good job anymore. Right now, Parks & Rec does a fantastic job of getting these events out and working. I don't want to see that get complicated and we get events where it's not the quality that we are used to or expect. So I think everybody here made a suggestion, but I don't think anybody is ready to say, "Yes, go do it," at this point. Correct? Everybody's just made, so keep that in mind and budget time. Keep that in mind so that we could get some of these things. If I had my way, I'd add a St. Patrick's Day parade. So thank you. We really appreciate the update and it's important to know exactly how much work is being done on behalf of the Town because this is, pretty astounding, 80 different events in a year, that's a lot of events. Thank you. Council Member Fox: Add one more thing. I agree with that if there's an increase of staffing. One of the things we do a lot though, is we waive a lot [inaudible]. I'd like that to be part of a discussion as well to see if that's not something that's actually prudent anymore [inaudible]. Waiver of fees could be an issue going, especially if we add. Kate Trask: I believe we have that on the agenda for the [inaudible]. Council Member Steinberg: [inaudible] the fee waivers Kate Trask: All right. Thank you all. Mayor Burk: Next item, that Request Proposal. No? Christopher Spera: No, it's the Plastic Bag Tax. We're going to get to the Liberty Lot, I promise. Mayor Burk: Okay, go ahead. Go ahead. Renee LaFollette: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. It's your April 24th work set planning retreat. You requested a work session related to the potential adoption of a Plastic Bag Tax. During the regular session of the 2020 General Assembly, legislations specifically House Bill No. 254 and Senate Bill No. 11 were enacted. That legislation specifically states any County or City may by duly adopted ordinance impose a tax on the amount of 5 cents for each disposable plastic bag provided, whether or not provided free of charge to a consumer of tangible personal property by retailers and grocery stores, convenience stores or drug stores. That 5 cents will be collected by the State. It's broken down that the stores keep 2 cents and 3 cents to the State from January of 2021 through January of 2023. Then in January of 2023, the stores keep 1 Page 101 August 9, 2021 cent of that tax revenue. However, this Bill does specifically limit it to Counties and Cities, and it does not allow Towns to impose this tax. The administration and use of the tax, it will be administered by the State Tax Commissioner. There has been very minimal guidance set or created. It's only in draft form from the State Tax Commissioner. It will be administered very similar, they think, to the retail sales and use tax that is currently collected on a monthly basis by the State, and the uses of the tax are very specific to the following four bullet points. Environmental cleanup, providing education programs designed to reduce environmental waste, mitigating pollution and litter, and providing reusable bags to recipients of the SNAP program or the WIC benefits. As a member of the Northern Virginia Waste Management Board, we have sent a letter to the State Tax Commissioner and received a response of, "We're working on it. We'II figure it out when a jurisdiction enacts an Ordinance." The guidance has been slim to none thus far, and most jurisdictions are questioning what they're going to do. Loudoun County got an update from their finance folks in July. If they adopt it, they are figuring that the earliest date that they would impose that tax would be April of 2022 based on what staff has told me thus far. The only jurisdiction to enact an Ordinance is Roanoke, but they went out on that limb not knowing exactly what is going to be happening. That is all of the information I have on this item, because there is so little guidance out there. Mayor Burk: I have to say, this is terribly ironic, their uses are restricted to the following. Environmental cleanup, providing education program designed to reduce environmental waste and mitigating pollution and litter. Those are the reasons that we want to get rid of the bags. Do I misunderstand this? Does this say that you can use the bags for those things? Renee LaFollette: No. The tax that is collected can only be utilized for those four types of programs. Mayor Burk: Okay. That makes more sense. I feel a little better now. Again, we can't do anything with it at this point. One of the things, I know that Mr. Steinberg and I talked about is, I think we need to put into our legislative agenda that they've got to stop limiting it to Counties and Cities. They've got to start including Towns in these regulations. That's very interesting and we'll see what other localities do end up picking it up. Council Member Cummings: I am a city. Mayor Burk: Okay. Did you hear that, Loudoun County? Mayor Burk: Ms. Fox? Council Member Fox: I just have a couple of comments. I just wanted to clarify, there's really no actionable thing we can do right now. Renee LaFollette: Correct. Council Member Fox: Nothing at all. Okay. Renee LaFollette: Other than through the legislative process and taking that forward through your legislative agenda, putting that on there. Council Member Fox: I'll put on the record right now, I have been wanting to get rid of any sort of plastic bags. I think paper and plastic, you've got a choice there. I don't want to limit the choice and I don't want an extra tax on anybody, but it seems like we can't even oppose that right now. Until that happens, I guess I'll just save my comments. Thanks. Mayor Burk: Mr. Steinberg? Council Member Steinberg: Thanks. I believe I clarified this with Mr. Spera earlier today. We cannot outright ban plastic bags in the Town of Leesburg. Is that correct? Page 111 August 9, 2021 Renee LaFollette: That is my understanding. Christopher Spera: That is mine as well, Mr. Steinberg. Council Member Steinberg: Okay. For the public record, we cannot write that now. I realize at this point, we are in effect, powerless. I couldn't agree with the Mayor more that it is staggering how many times we, as the largest Town in the State of Virginia run up against these Cities and Counties situation. Manassas Park has more leeway than we do. All that aside. Today's headline, and this is a rant now, if you saw today's headline in the papers, we as a country and as a global society, are on the brink of an environmental disaster, and this is part of it. If we can't get off the dime for something as simple as this, by eliminating these petroleum products from our lives, then I fear, we are not going to make the changes that are going to be required to reverse these changes that we see in our environment. This may be a strong message to the County as much as anything else. I supposed the environmentally sensitive Board of Supervisors, we need to get something done and that has to happen much sooner than later. Thanks. Vice Mayor Martinez: Sure. Disappointed in all this. I was really hoping that we could, as a Town do something about it, but I think our only move is to petition the County to please enact Plastic Bag Ban. The only other question I have is, of that 3% that goes back to the State, how much of it goes back to the Towns and Counties? I assume it'd go back to the County and the County would then give us our share. Renee LaFollette: Right now, if it is done in accordance with the Sales and Use Tax, it would come through the County, to the Town based on our school -age population, if they do it the way they do the Sales and Use Tax. That's the way it was explained to me by our finance folks and Loudoun County. Vice Mayor Martinez: [inaudible] County's radar that the Town is looking for them? Mayor Burk: I just want to point out that I have been working off on an old Agenda and I see. That's why I didn't, I was actually mulling on what I was doing. I just was doing it wrong. Anyway. All right. There's nothing we can do at this point but thank you for the information. Appreciate it greatly. Now we have the Liberty Lot Property. Christopher Spera: Yes. The much -awaited Liberty Lot presentation. Renee LaFollette: Right. [inaudible] It's all yours. Christopher Spera: Madam Mayor, Members of Council. You'll recall back in May, Mr. Seymour and I gave you a presentation generally on public -private partnerships and what those look like. You asked us to come back with a little bit more specificity as it pertains to the Liberty Lot and how we might go about doing a public -private partnership. What I tried to do was to look around at some other jurisdictions and see what they did, to try and, for lack of a better term, frame different methodology for you. Basically, as I looked at these, it split into three categories. I tried to get you an example of each category. The first, I probably ordered these, Mayor Burk, as much as ordering has been an issue, I probably ordered these in the wrong order, but this is what I would call a "hybrid approach". What the Town of Herndon did, they had a 5 -acre parcel, they identified the specific parcel in their RFP. They didn't say "I want a specific thing", but they defined some parameters and then put it out and a developer, I forgot I could take this off while I'm speaking, which would probably make me less muffled, but essentially, an RFP with parameters, a specific parcel identified so that they had an idea what they were going to get, but they weren't completely curtailing the creativity of the developer. What they ended up with here, and this is the proposal that the Town of Herndon accepted; was the 5 - acres being redeveloped into a combination of multi -family residential, some ground -level retail, an arts center and then a parking facility that had both private parking for the retail and residential as well as Page 121 August 9, 2021 dedicated public parking for the arts center. The Town of Herndon put the land into the deal. The developer would construct everything and then at the end of construction, it is proposed in this RFP, the Town is proposed to own the arts center and the dedicated parking associated with the arts center. That was basically, we know the land that we have much as we do here, we're talking about the Liberty Lot and they were talking about the 5 -acre parcel that they had in downtown Herndon and then they gave some parameters so that somebody didn't come in and put in something outside of the parameters, but they weren't hyper -specific. Here's an example of something that's very specific, The Metro Parking Garage, the Ashburn North Station. There, Loudoun County basically said, we want this specific thing, a parking garage that generates certain type of revenue, certain type of capacity at a particular location. This is very, very specific. Specific type of use, specific location, they knew exactly what they wanted and where. There was some room for creativity by the developer, but not a ton. Basically, the County said, we're going to provide a dollar, I think it was a dollar a car a day, if I remembered the RFP correctly. There were some subsidies coming from the County towards the cost of parking, but otherwise, the facility had to be self-sufficient. The facility had to pay rent based on a formula back to the County. At the end of 40 -years, all the improvements would revert to the County. This is an example of a specific parcel, specific use, pretty narrowly defined RFP. Then the third thing I have for you, and I find this to be fascinating is an unsolicited proposal. Fairfax County near the old Lorton Prison site has some closed dumpsites, the so-called trash mountains. This particular developer came in with an unsolicited proposal to build this year-round, indoor, winter sports complex. Now, this was not an RFP. This was an unsolicited proposal. Apparently, this developer had executed this previously at a location in New Jersey on a closed municipal waste disposal site. As many of you know, recreational uses; fields, golf courses, things like that, are often used as "transitional uses" over a landfill. Very common to see a golf course or a park over what is referred to as an "encapsulated fill". Then there's a period of time where whatever's going on in that landfill dissipates. There's settlement, there's a release of gas, whatever it might be. Then after that period of time is extinguished, then a different type of development can take place. In any event, this was a recent local example of an unsolicited proposal. The County did not say, "we really want this." It's just, the developer came in and said, "Hey, you have this closed waste disposal site, we have this project that we could build there. What do you say?" Those are the three buckets, if you will, in our research, we have found these kinds of things falling into. Basically, you can wait for somebody with creativity and imagination, the indoor winter sports complex, I think falls in that category to look at your site and say, "Hey, what about this?" That's an unsolicited proposal. Or you can do an RFP, that is hyper -specific. For example, if the will of Council was "We know that we want a conference center on the Liberty Lot. We know that. We have already talked to our constituents. We know that from an economic development perspective, that's the thing that we want," then you do an RFP for that specific thing, or if you're not so sure and you want to get the benefit of multiple ideas, you do what Herndon did and you define some parameters around what the public use might be and then see what comes in, in response to an RFP. That's what we came up with and the direction that we'd like from you this evening, both Russell and I, is to see what your preference is and how we move forward. If you think you know what you want, then you can direct us to prepare an RFP for X, or if you think you have some general parameters, we can do that. Or, if you'd like us to engage in an information -gathering process to host a Town Hall or something, to get ideas from the community, we can do that as well. That's the direction that we are seeking from you tonight with respect to this parcel. I wanted you to see examples of other local projects that were public -private partnerships and how they came to be. It really starts with the choice that you make regarding how those solicitations come in, how narrowly you define it or what parameters you put on something that's less narrowly defined or if you just want Page 131 August 9, 2021 to wait for someone creative in the community to come in with an unsolicited proposal. To me, those are the choices and the direction that we seek from you this evening. Mayor Burk: I will tell you the Herndon thing took over 10 years. Christopher Spera: None of these are quick. Mayor Burk: [inaudible] Ms. Kari. Council Member Nacy: I don't, in particular, actually Mayor Burk: Right. Mr. Cummings? Council Member Cummings: One of the directions from staff is whether we wait for an unsolicited proposal or we have an RFP. The elephant in the room is, we have an unsolicited proposal out there right now and so my concern is, we have to weigh on whether that's the best use of this land as Mr. Seymour has told us many times, there's not a lot of land opportunities out there in the Town of Leesburg. I think when we're talking about even putting an RFP out or even waiting on this property, we have to determine what we feel, because this is a long-term process, what's the best use of this property and not today or even in five years in. In 15, 20 years down the road, if not longer. Me, personally, I don't know if Mr. Seymour has any thoughts on that Liberty Lot and from an economic development standpoint, what we think would work there, or what he's hearing needed, but again with the idea of this is not tomorrow, it's 25 years down the road probably, realistically. Russell Seymour: Yes, sir. I think you bring up a couple of good points, not the least of which is, opening this up to really get ideas back from the development community. We do have one or two parties that have been or have expressed an interest in this and I think by putting it out there, you're going to be able to get additional thoughts and ideas with the direction that you're looking for something. I think this is what Chris and I were talking about earlier, the Town Council having an opportunity to put in there, "these are our priorities, and this is what we're looking for." Whether it's strictly developmental on that 2.03 -acre lot, or it's part of a redevelopment by other lots or development projects, this is something that we're willing to look at, putting into play but this is what we're looking, this is our priority. I think we talked about places, meeting spaces for everything from business conferences to weddings, all of those things are needed in our area. We're also talking about additional corporate or office space in the area but I think, based on everything that we've seen and talked about in our area, I think having something that would allow for that meeting space, at least from where I sit in my office, is probably going to be something that is (a) works best on that site for the Town and all the things the Town could want, and (b) would be something that is certainly going to be utilized by the local business community. Council Member Cummings: Thank you. Just a last comment, from where I sit, I think what Mr. Seymour mentioned is all very good. I think we need either some meeting space, some venue, no visit allowed and talks about having another hotel, potentially. That might be something to think about. The one thing I would just add is, for me, I think we really need to focus on housing, but not just open housing. I think we need to look at affordable housing for folks who are 55 years and older. A lot of the issues with housing affordability is the housing market has taken the middle of the market. Folks living in townhouses wanting to move up to a single-family home have trouble finding that single-family home because the folks who are in those single-family homes are unable to find somewhere to go from that. They don't need the single-family home, and maybe just husband and wife together, they need a smaller condo but that market is not there, really. I think if we're really serious about affordable housing and attainable housing, we have to look at helping to eliminate, in the real estate industry, we call it the "mushy middle". It's the folks who can't go from a townhouse to single-family. That would be my only comment. It's just that, as we're talking about this, it's looking at trying to help the economic development Page 141 August 9, 2021 of the Town but also looking at how we can help the home affordability crisis that we are unfortunately all living in here in Leesburg, in Loudon County. Council Member Steinberg: Thanks. A couple questions first. I appreciate all the information we got. Just reading through the various guidelines, excuse me, let me get this here, it seems to me, they're so overly broad as to almost being meaningless. Can a residential component be considered something for the public good in the end? Christopher Spera: Sure. I don't think it can be exclusively that. Council Member Steinberg: Understood. Christopher Spera: Basically, in other jurisdictions, but not in Virginia, public -private partnerships could be and have been. Basically, this is surplus land that the locality owns. It's generating zero tax revenue; we'll give it to a developer and now we have tax revenue. That works in other jurisdictions, it doesn't work in Virginia. So there has to be a little bit more, is what I'm saying. Council Member Steinberg: Could anything that includes, for example, "structured parking" be fallen under the category of the PPTA as opposed to the PPEA? Christopher Spera: Yes, structured parking would work. Council Member Steinberg: Even if it wasn't the project in its entirety? Christopher Spera: Correct. Council Member Steinberg: Okay. Out of curiosity, under what category does Winter World fall, that Fairfax included? Christopher Spera: It is not a transportation project. Council Member Steinberg: Well, I don't know. It looks like they're skiing inside. Maybe it is. Christopher Spera: That is actually. Although it's a very interesting project because I think part of the sell there and part of what made it. It actually is moving forward, received a couple of levels of approval from the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors. Part of what the developer did, and I think they were smart was, this parcel is adjacent to an existing Fairfax County Park complex. There is explicitly in their proposal, a connectivity and interaction between their private facility and access through there, almost a sharing, if you will, with the public park. It's almost like a, the renderings of it are. Council Member Steinberg: There's that magic word, "connectivity". Yes. Christopher Spera: Exactly, right. In any event, since this thing, primarily, it's just paying rent, basically. You're getting rent on a trash mountain, but it's because it's connected to these other Fairfax County Parks, it enhances that in a way. Council Member Steinberg: That's fine. Christopher Spera: That's the layer on top of simply, revenue. Council Member Steinberg: In Herndon's deal, did they maintain ownership of the land, or did they swap it for the art center? Christopher Spera: My understanding is that the land will be owned by essentially, a condominium association. The Town of Herndon is going to own the condominium units, if you will, that are comprised of the arts center and the parking for the arts center. Page 151 August 9, 2021 I may have bored you before with stories of the project that we did in Alexandria, where we had only a single parcel available and we had affordable housing needs, we had fire station needs, and we had retail needs in the approval of a portion of the Potomac Yard development and the solution, I'll pat myself on the back a little bit, because I came up with it, was we made it a condominium. There was a tower that was a 12 -story building, the bottom basement store portion of it was the fire station that was owned by the City. There was a ground floor retail component that was owned by another party and then there was an affordable housing partnership, a not -for-profit that owned the 60 or whatever, I think it was 67 affordable housing units. There was a three -unit condominium, the affordable housing partnership owned the top, the ground -level retail was owned by a for-profit entity and the City own the fire station, which is at the bottom. That seems pretty similar to what's going on in Herndon that's basically, it's creating a condominium, the land is owned by a condominium association, of which the Town of Herndon is a member and then its units, if you will, are comprised of the arts center and the dedicated parking for the arts center. Council Member Steinberg: Thanks. For my edification, can you tell me or define for me what a competitive negotiation is versus any other approach to the public -private partnership? Christopher Spera: Frankly, you end up in much the same process, whether you get an unsolicited proposal or you put out an RFP. Because one of the reasons why unsolicited proposals take as long as they do is, if you choose to move forward on it, you've got to put it out. You still have to have an open window of time when other people can come in and say, "oh, I can do it better," or "I can do it slightly different." Council Member Steinberg: They had to do that in Fairfax? Christopher Spera: Yes. I believe that's the second hurdle that they just cleared, that they ended what I'll call the open bid component or open bid portion of the process, but even on an unsolicited proposal, you still have to make it open to other potential suitors, if you will. Council Member Steinberg: Then what is the competitive negotiation? Christopher Spera: What you do is, you as the elected officials ultimately have the decision whether to move forward with something or not. A response to an RFP could come in and maybe you get multiple ones, but if you don't like either of them or any of them, let's say you choose the one that you liked the best, or you go to all of the respondents and you say to each of them; "Well, here's what's missing. Can you do this? Can you add this?" Then ultimately, you choose one, but you're not required to choose something. Ultimately, if they don't come up to the standard that you want or deliver all the elements that you want, you can say no. Council Member Steinberg: Thank you. Now, over the past few years, we have been approached several times about proposals for this site. Two of which seemed, my way of thinking primarily, more self-serving than anything else. They've gone nowhere. Now, this last one that has come to us, and I think precipitated this conversation, is very interesting. I think it would involve a really good partnership between the Town and the potential development. It pretty much checks all the boxes that we've talked about, even though right now, it may be considered high in the sky, but it's still a very interesting proposal and I would hate to waste the next 25 years trying to get somewhere, and I don't know if this involves? Do we need to consider evaluating the site before we can realistically move forward, or is that something that basically needs to happen as we entertain proposals? Christopher Spera: My understanding is that this is a landfill. Council Member Steinberg: It is. Page 161 August 9, 2021 Christopher Spera: So, it would probably be wise for us to understand before we undertook all that work in looking at a development partner and what a public -private partnership would look like, to know what's there and know what we're dealing with. Then we could and would share that with any potential partner. Council Member Steinberg: I think that's where this conversation has to go and what we, as Council need to think about. An engineering evaluation of this site to know exactly what we're faced with. I know that won't in itself be inexpensive, but I think it was part of that proposal we're considering anyway. On that basis then, and perhaps under a framework of a proposal we've seen, try to see what kind of interest we can get generated on this site. Thanks. Council Member Fox: I do have a few questions. I think my first one, I've got notes [inaudible] in report, it says, "There've been several inquiries." I know of one. Could you give us some examples of other inquiries the Town has had for the Liberty Lot? Christopher Spera: Only one happened since I've been here but I understand from Mr. Seymour [inaudible]. I'll let Russ answer you. Russell Seymour: There have been a couple and I will use the term broadly, unsolicited thoughts or ideas that have been generated about the site. Most of them have come. There is the one that you had mentioned, is probably the closest to an unsolicited RFP. There have been some other ones that have talked about similar types of uses, looking at it but our understanding that the Town, that parcel would play a role with other parcels around it. We've had no discussions just about that single parcel. They have all been tied to some other type of joint parcel or development around it. Council Member Fox: [inaudible] by the waterfront. Council Member Steinberg: Georgetown Park. I think we did have a hotel that was interested in just that site. Russell Seymour: There was a hotel that was interested in just that site at one point, but it has been going down toward the Creek, the waterways, as you put it. Recently, it got a crack and then we got a whole other issue. We've also though, had them going closer out to Route 15, and tying it into that area, that's why when I mentioned earlier about being a small part of a larger redevelopment for that corner, all of this would tie in with that. Council Member Fox: A couple of other things. I don't think that has [inaudible]. I heard a few things being tossed around. RFP, which is great. I guess that's the normal process now. It's my understanding that when we put it on RFP, especially for services, I'm not talking about this but I'm wondering if it relates to this, that we are obliged to take the least expensive service or the least cumbersome service. Is that correct? Christopher Spera: The Public Procurement Act RFP is different than a public -private partnership RFP. The vernacular is I think, used the same because the process is similar, but there are different processes. Council Member Fox: That's good to know. I've always been intrigued by the public -private partnership, and I've always had a kind of ambivalence about it because what I see in and what I've heard from this one specific idea for the Liberty Lot is, [inaudible] would still own whatever goes there, making it the Town's responsibility and if things fail, if things don't work out, our taxpayers are still on the hook for that. I have a little bit of ambivalence there, but I think it's also something we [inaudible] I feel like that project is, kind of, thinking outside the box. There're two things [inaudible] housing [inaudible] that's needed. I'm just a little leery [inaudible] public -private partnership on housing, then we'd own housing and that would be "public housing". That's something I would need more guidance on to understand that. Christopher Spera: You don't have to own it to make it part of your parameters. For example, in the Herndon project and again, that's not been built but it's been approved. That housing is privately owned. Page 171 August 9, 2021 That's private housing, the retail there is private retail. The Town doesn't own them. What the Town of Herndon owns is the arts center and the dedicated parking for the arts center. It owns that but the other aspects of that project, on that 5 -acre site are privately owned. Council Member Fox: That's something that we could go into some partnership. We could outline that and say, this is what we own. Christopher Spera: Absolutely. Yes, ma'am. Council Member Fox: Okay. One more thing. Somebody mentioned weddings and things like that. I don't mind weddings. I don't mind conference centers. The one thing I do mind is any government entity giving competition to the private sector. I don't believe that is prudent and I don't [inaudible] helps [inaudible] the base, our tax base. I really, honestly don't [inaudible]. That's something I feel maybe we should [inaudible] about as well. Thanks. Mayor Burk: Listening to everybody's comments, I think, in my opinion, we can. Christopher Spera: Mr. Martinez has not commented. Mayor Burk: Go ahead. Vice Mayor Martinez: I'm there. I don't know what you're pointing at. Seriously, I have been here going on 20 years. We had several groups do PPAs that wanted to do different things with different parts of the property. At first, I was excited about it, but at this point, nothing has ever come out of it. My question is, why are we waiting for that to happen? Liberty Parking Lot is our parking lot. It's our property. We should be doing something to that piece of property to help us. I keep hearing about a police station, that it needs to be expanded and grown. My question is, why haven't we just thought about biting the bullet, clean up Liberty Parking Lot, and put a brand-new police station with structured parking and just do it, instead of waiting and waiting and waiting. Then we have a regular lot or a regular police station that we can use either as an annex or community center or something else. I am not ready to wait again and again, again, for a PPA. I think that we as a Town Council should take the initiative and do something with that property and stop waiting for somebody to give us a prize or give us a present. That's my comment. I hope that staff looks at that and maybe say; "Well, we have to expand Town Hall. Why can't we do something there? It's our property." Division is only limited by what we can think of. I think there's a lot of possibilities. I think it's time to stop waiting for somebody to deliver us and for us to deliver ourselves. Thanks. Mayor Burk: Wow. All good points. Everyone has made very good points tonight. I would be inclined to ask for an RFP, with our basic guidelines of what we want in there. I like the idea of having a community meeting and find out what the community is interested in. I would think that the whole concept of having the meeting locations, the performing arts aspect of it, to the senior housing, that's definitely a need. Parking lot replacement, all of that is certainly something that we could put out to the public. We know that there's someone out there, there's somewhat interested at this point. [inaudible] That's what's holding everybody from moving forward. [inaudible] Although it's going to cost us money, but if we did that, I think we would have more interest in developing that. If not, if we put it out, and there's not that interest, then maybe what Mr. Martinez said is the next step to go to. But at this point, I would encourage us to do the RFP and see what comes in. Christopher Spera: Would you like us to a get a price on the soil analysis, and then b) come up with some sort of Town Hall type meeting or virtual meeting where we get input from the community? Are those two things you think? Page 181 August 9, 2021 Mayor Burk: I would like, but I need to see [inaudible], we're interested in doing that, or therefore other people that would like to have the information on what is the soil study [inaudible] and would we like to have an idea for a Town Hall type meeting for the community [inaudible]. Christopher Spera: Then we have the guidance that we need. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Council Member Nacy: May I suggest one thing really quickly? Since we're about to meet with the Planning Commission on Monday, and this is noted in the Town Plan currently, [inaudible] worth talking to them about too. Mayor Burk: [inaudible] Council Member Nacy: I have a kind of question/request. I want a little more information why our Traffic Committee is a Committee versus a Commission, what the difference is? And then I want to see if Council would be willing to add it to the budget next time for them to start getting paid as well like the other commissioners. Mayor Burk: The one issue I would have with it, is that we have so many people on it, that aren't. Someone from the Fire Department, someone from the Police Department. You have to curtail it down [inaudible]. You would like to have an explanation of why the traffic, in the residential traffic committee and not a regular transportation? Council Member Nacy: Yes. I just think there's the need. As you'll hear on Monday coming up as well, there's a transportation traffic issue that's sort of looming over, Planning Commission and about to be our heads as well and I think that that commission or committee could turn into a commission that could be helpful for that sort of thing, in addition to what they already do. Mayor Burk: Your emphasis is residential at this point? Council Member Nacy: Yes. Mayor Burk: You want to have a discussion on that? Council Member Nacy: Yes. Mayor Burk: Okay. Are there four people that would be willing to have a discussion on that? Okay. That moves forward. Mr. Martinez? Vice Mayor Martinez: I would like to see if there's any interest in us penning a letter to the County asking them to start working on a Plastic Bag Ordinance. Mayor Burk: Are there four people that would be interested in having that letter? Okay. Mr. Steinberg, Mr. Cummings, Mr. Martinez, and Ms. Burk. Vice Mayor Martinez: I would also like to ask the staff, what's the status in all the initiatives we discussed at our retreat? In other words, if we had 20 initiatives or 20 items of interest, how did we perform against those goals and objectives? Keith Markel: We have a tracking sheet here. We've broken down everything that was discussed at that meeting, and we have that laid out in a calendar format to bring them to you. Vice Mayor Martinez: I haven't seen that yet. Mayor Burk: Resend that to Mr. Martinez. Keith Markel: I certainly will. Page 191 August 9, 2021 Mayor Burk: Resend it to everybody. That'll make it easy. Vice Mayor Martinez: Okay. Thank you. Then that's done. Never mind. Keith Markel: Did you want that letter to come back to you all collectively to look at, or just for the Mayor's signature? Mayor Burk: [unintelligible], you wanted just the Mayor to send it out? Vice Mayor Martinez: Send it out. Mayor Burk: Mr. Cummings? Council Member Cummings: I don't have anything at this moment. Mayor Burk: Mr. Steinberg? Council Member Steinberg: I don't have anything for our future meeting, but last week, I attended two teleconferences involving the Rockwool plant in Ranson, West Virginia, which is an issue that this Council in the past has supported the efforts of various organizations in trying to get the Rockwool and their parent company, Roxul, to adhere to better environmental standards. Anyway, there are lots of questions about the air permits. All I'm asking is that I'd be willing to craft a letter. We can just send it out again under the Mayor's signature. I'd certainly be happy to forward it to everybody before it goes but just as a continuing effort of support in this project. Mayor Burk: All right. You would like to have a letter that would go to whom? Council Member Steinberg: There are a couple of organizations that it would be addressed to. It would also be forwarded to the US EPA. We've done that in the past too. But I can get you a list of the organizations we would forward it to. Mayor Burk: This really is an issue even though it involves something and [inaudible] definitely has an impact here in [inaudible] Council Member Steinberg: I could give you an impact on both our water and our air. Mayor Burk: Do you want this on the next session that you bring the letter back? Council Member Steinberg: Time is somewhat of the essence here. The next work session puts us into September. Basically, all I'm asking is a continuation of support that we provided in the past. If Council members feel that we need to have a meeting about it, that's fine. But otherwise, I feel we could just go ahead and draft a letter, which as I say, everybody can see, and then under your signature perhaps, it can just go forward without an additional meeting. Council Member Fox: Rockwool's [inaudible]. Council Member Nacy: [inaudible] Mayor Burk: All right. Ms. Fox. Council Member Fox: I have one thing and it's not going to be popular. Mayor Burk: [inaudible]. Council Member Fox: I don't want to wear masks in perpetuity. I need to know. I know we instilled it. I'm not quite sure why. I don't know to what end we're trying to reach. Are we trying to get to zero deaths, zero cases, zero hospitalization, zero COVID? I just don't know and there's so much misinformation out Page 201 August 9, 2021 there. I look at the Loudoun County website all the time, and deaths are, I don't want to say non-existent but they're not there. Every time we wore this during COVID, at the peaks and the valleys. Right now, we're living in fairly normal times as far as hospitalizations and deaths. The County is not even tracking down deaths anymore. I want information. I want solid information before I feel [inaudible], oppose to being moved all the time. If somebody can give me [inaudible] facts and the solid information, then I don't mind wearing it, but I just don't want to wear it because [inaudible]. I feel Dr. Fauci had it right when this first started [inaudible] work, the N95s do if fitted properly. Even Biden's COVID advisor said the same thing. I want a conversation on it. [inaudible] I would like us to talk about not having to wear masks and let's have solid information. Mayor Burk: Tomorrow, we have four or five [inaudible]. [Technical issues with the audio occurred shortly before meeting ended.] Page 211 August 9, 2021