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HomeMy Public PortalAbout09-20-2006 Park Commission MinutesMedina Park Commission Meeting Minutes September 20, 2006 Medina City Hall Page 1 of 11 Call to order 7:00 p.m. A. Commissioners present: Galen Bruer, Gerry Dykhoff, Ann Thies, Madeleine Linck, Robin Reid, Tom Gregor, Randy Hughes B. Absent: none C. Also Present: Chad Adams, Carolyn Smith, and Jodi Wunsch; Pete Lemke, Chris Sagsveen, Wayne Loos, Bruce Spanier and others from Hennepin County; Jonathan Vlaming and Boe Carlson from Three Rivers Park District. D. Additions to agenda: Chad Adams recommended a joint Council, Park and Planning Commission meeting on October 24, 2006 Approval of last meeting's minutes: July 19, 2006 meeting minutes were approved after noting the following changes: Under "Approval of last meeting's minutes" it should say Willow Drive instead of Hunter Drive. Under section A8 it should say Hunter Lions Park instead of Hamel Legion Park and Girl Scouts was misspelled. Add Chad Adams' name to "Also Present" at the last meeting. Public Comments (on items not on the agenda): None. A. County Road 19 Regional Bike Trail (public hearing) a. Chad Adams introduced the order of the meeting as follows: presentation by Pete Lemke from Hennepin County, questions by the Park Commission, and then the public hearing will begin. b. Pete Lemke gave an informative presentation on public involvement, project schedule, project need, the three phases, federal funds, trail characteristics, proposed preliminary layouts, and right of way acquisitions. c. Jonathan Blanning from Three Rivers Park District spoke on their relations with the trail. He talked about how the county trail would be just a part of a larger network of regional trails. Blanning stated they can only develop 20% of the park (that includes trails). They are fully developed, if they want to develop anywhere else in Baker Park they would have to take something else away. The Park looked at safety issues, quality of trail experience, and level of service (i.e. how many people will really use this trail?). Then he spoke on the Pros and Cons on the West Side Alignment and the East Side Alignment. d. Questions from the Park Commission: i. Ann Thies asked if a turf trail counted as part of the total development in Baker Park. Blanning stated it does count in the total development. He also explained the logic behind the layout in 2B. He said if they go with the west trail they will not disturb the horse trails. If they were to run the trail on the east side (full length of Baker Park) there would still be a crossing concern which Medina Park Commission Meeting Minutes September 20, 2006 Medina City Hall Page 2of11 consequently would make it best to run along the existing horse trail. ii. Madeleine Linck asked how the trail crosses Highway 55 safely. Pete Lemke stated there is a signal at Highway 55. Linck questioned if the snowmobile trail is still functioning. She recalled the access was cut off. Lemke responded that Baker Park's policy is to no longer support that as a snowmobile trail. iii. Ann Thies questioned where the trail would run across Highway 19 if not through the proposed box culvert. It was explained that there is an existing box culvert under Highway 19, to the south of the County Road 24 intersection. Public Hearing Opens at 7:35 p.m. Chad Adams started by reading the names of everyone who wrote a letter and entered the letters into the public record. The people who wrote letters were: Mitchell Shields, Kathryn & Terry Richmond, Dick Larson, Brad Kvanbek, Sanford Paulsen, Roger Adams, John & Valerie Donahue, Jim & Joni Lane, David & Angie Raskob, Steven Martin, and Eric Bergen. Adams then called on each person requesting to speak. Below are the names and comments from each speaker. Greg Ebert: Ebert was representing Stop & Go Liquor. His main concern was where people would park while riding on the trail. He feels like this is a big issue because people already park in Stop & Go Liquor's lot from the trail on his North. The other issue that concerned him was the lack of public restrooms for trail users. Dick Picard: Picard first mentioned that we have Federal Funds, Hennepin County, Three Rivers Park, and the cities of Medina and Loretto all involved in this project. He stated he would like to have the trail on the east side, but also have a smaller trail from Lakeshore to Baker Park. Picard stated the trail on the east side will have no driveways, no roads, no traffic, it is already a wilderness area, there is no need to cross 19, and the project would take no one's property, and it is accessible to many other trails. If there is a small path from Lakeshore to Baker Park there will be no crossing of driveways and streets, it is already used, minimal interference with property owners, it can be less than 10 feet wide, it could easily handle the expected users in the three months it would be used, it would also minimize the run off into Lake independence (our impaired lake), and finally it will save a 1/2 million dollars. Jacqueline Corkle: Corkle began by thanking Hennepin County for getting the Federal Funds. Corkle stated that she supports a trail on either side of County Road 19, but she is concerned with dog walkers on the trail because they are not allowed in Baker Park. Mitchell Shields: Shields wanted to thank the City of Medina for communicating these meetings to the public and thank Hennepin County and Three Rivers Park Medina Park Commission Meeting Minutes September 20, 2006 Medina City Hall Page 3of11 for participating in the meetings. Shields is an Independence Beach Resident who is an advocate for the trail being on the West side completely. He stated that we need to look at the bigger picture (10-15 years down the road). County Road 19 is a scary place to be; people do not want to cross it. He also pointed out that phase one of this study is to connect Baker Park and Maple Park and there is a toilet and parking at Maple Park. A trail on the west side would benefit kids in Loretto who want to go to the beach and do not want to cross the street. Shields felt that if we build a box culvert it is going to cost a lot of money and it will be a big mess. He mentioned that the county alternatives do not accurately address the connection to Maple Park. Shield feels that the current proposal will leave people on Maple Street, in Maple Park, and at the beach with no where to go. Dean Johnson: Johnson's property is behind County Road 19 and he allows snowmobiles at his property. In the two years he has officed there, he has noticed an unusual amount of cars in the area. He noticed the cars where swerving and do not know where to go on the road. It is unsafe. He asked if there is going to be something to separate cars from pedestrians. Roger Adams: Adams lives at 2725 County Road 19 and is in favor of the east side proposal. He stated that the west side would be much more expensive and it would cross over five residential driveways and streets. He also supports a neighborhood trail from Ardmore Avenue to Baker Park. Bob Garvey: Garvey lives on the corner of Hamel Road and County Road 19. He was concerned with the amount and speed of traffic. Garvey stated that he had already had the South side of his property taken and now they want the West side. He hardly sees bikes and he never sees horses. Walter Steinkraus: He is a Dock Side resident, who is not in favor of the West side option. He would agree to a connection from the neighborhood to Baker Park, but a regional trail would affect their homes. Steinkraus stated that the East side trail is a much better route as a biking route. Kathryn Richmond: Richmond lives at 2900 County Road 19. She has strong concerns with the proposed west side trail being really close to the water and how it would significantly impact a half acre of her land including trees and nature. Richmond asked everyone to please support the East side. Terry Richmond: Terry Richmond first agreed with everything his wife, Kathryn Richmond, had to say. He was very concerned with how much the proposed west side trail would impact everyone south of his property (even Doc Side). He said it would require about 18 feet of easement and his neighbors would lose a beautiful Oak tree. He supports the link around Doc Side in the neighborhood. He feels that the people he has seen want a continuous trail. Richmond asked if there had been any accidents. Brad Kvanbek: Kvanbek lives at 2895 County Road 19. He feels it makes sense to go through Baker Park because that is where trails belong. The proposed West side proposal will affect his two largest Oak trees and most Medina Park Commission Meeting Minutes September 20, 2006 Medina City Ha11 Page 4 of 11 importantly this trail would take away his neighbor's land. He feels that this trail should go on the East side. Joel Settles: Settles lives at 2892 Ardmore Avenue and supports the trail on the east side for all the reasons that have been brought forward. He feels that it will give the neighborhood kids a safe connection and bikers should not have to ride past County Road 19. Mike McLaughlin: McLaughlin would like to see the bike trail go in on the west side of County Road 19 through Independence Beach Neighborhood for safe travel by bike. Barbara McMillan: McMillan lives in Dock Side and was representing the entire Dock Side Association by supporting the trail on the east side. She stated that the west side has too many residents. She also had a concern with safety issues in having a regional trail. She felt that a neighborhood trail would only have neighbor kids riding on it, while a regional trail will bring in all sorts of people from the outside. The Dock Side Association supports a neighborhood trail. Jack Wang: Wang opposes the option with the trail running on the West side of County Road 19. He has a fence and a mature tree that would have to go and he isn't willing to give up his property. He supports a trail on the East side. Betty Goodman: Is a horseback rider who lives at 2495 Willow Drive. Goodman stated how fortunate Medina is to still have private trails, but as development happens we might lose our horse trails. Goodman has historically used the "spur trail" along County Road 19 and stated it was a wonderful horseback riding trail. She would very much like that trail preserved and is disappointed with the 20% restriction on development. She also asked for safer access to the existing trail. Nancy Olkon: Olkon is also a horseback rider who lives at 2362 Willow Drive North. She moved to Medina to ride horses. Olkon said, "We have lost trail after trail after trail due to private property." For some time she has been riding in Baker Park by trailering there because it is too hard to get there with high levels of traffic. She stated that the parking is also difficult and the little bit of trail that currently exists on the east side gives horseback riders that access. Olkon asked if we could have a dual trail. She would like to preserve this trail. Carol Shields: Shields lives at 3155 Lakeshore Avenue and is also a LICA member. She feels that Medina is a unique community and this is a great opportunity to make everyone happy. It was also important to her not to take land from land owners. She would also like to have a nice trail for dog walkers because right now there is a $125 fine to have a dog in Baker Park. Carolyn Smith: Smith had a question for Three Rivers Park. She asked if they tore down the barn and the other building would that help the hardcover issue. Could there be a 10 foot wide trail that was shared? (Six feet for people and four feet for horses) Medina Park Commission Meeting Minutes September 20, 2006 Medina City Ha11 Page 5of11 Boe Carlson (Three Rivers Park's response): Carlson stated the removal of those two facilities could help them get more developable land. The City of Medina is looking into preserving the barn, so they will have to wait to see what happens. In answering the question why a horse trail is considered a development, even though it is not an impervious surface it still is a corridor which impacts wildlife and resources. Sanford Paulsen: Paulsen lives in the Maple Park Area. He stated that the trail on either side of the road does not personally affect him, but he had an issue with taking away other people's land and felt that the trail should be designed as a recreational trail in a park. He is for the trail on the East side. Once all the comments were heard, everyone had an opportunity to make a secondary comment. Below are the individuals who made additional comments. Kathryn Richmond: Richmond asked if there was a possibility of a dual trail up to 20 feet. Greg Ebert: He forgot to mention he is not on city sewer service, which makes the bathroom a greater issue because his septic gets backed up. Betty Goodman: Goodman asked if there was any flexibility in the interpretation of an impervious surface trail. Boe Carlson: Carlson stated that Three Rivers Park District has to follow under the system of all the regional park trails. A policy has been set as 80% undevelopable land and 20% developable land. Baker Park is the oldest and widely recognized park that is close if not right on its 20% developed land. There is an opportunity for wildlife to co -exist on the trail, but machines mow around the trail and the trail creates a break in the habitat. Doug Dickerson: Dickerson asked if one park could accommodate another park by exchanging development from one park to another. Carlson said no. Bob Garvey: Garvey asked what the width of the trail was including the paved width and the shoulders of the trail. He was concerned with the section of the trail South of 19 to Hamel Road because people always cut that corner and it is not safe. Dick Picard: Picard asked who makes the final decision on this project and when. Chris Sagsveen: Sagsveen stated that this meeting is to get the first approval of a footprint. It will answer questions like, "which side makes sense?" and "what does everyone here want?" The City of Medina and the City of Loretto will be making the final decisions to go ahead before the end of the year. Carolyn Smith: Smith asked if the road could be moved over and why the county does not have a plan on the West side that does not take away property. Madeleine Linck: Linck asked if the West side is approved, would a curb separate people from the road and how big the curb would be. Answer: 4 inches high. Medina Park Commission Meeting Minutes September 20, 2006 Medina City Hall Page 6of11 Terry Richmond: Richmond stated that they have a 100 year old Cedar where the proposed west side trail would go and their utilities would also be under that proposed trail. Mitchell Shields: He suggested that the road could be built in the existing road right of way and had pictures as examples that he wanted to enter into the public record. Chris Sagsveen: Sagsveen mentioned that the connection to Baker Park was not a requirement for the grant. He also asked if the City wanted an eight foot wide trail. If the trail was built on only existing road right of way, it would not be eight feet wide. Hennepin County will not pay for the trail if it is not eight feet wide. Carolyn Smith: Smith wanted to clarify from a comment made earlier that the proposed trail is to connect Crow Hassan and Baker Park, not Maple Park. Greg Ebert: He cautioned the commission to get all information before you approve this project. Public Hearing Closes at 8:54 p.m. Randy Hughes closed the public hearing and announced a 5 minute break. At 9:00 p.m. the Park Commission was given the opportunity to ask Three Rivers Park District and Hennepin County questions. Galen Bruer: Bruer asked how wide the actual trail will be through Three Rivers Park. Boe Carlson: Carlson answered by stating that the trail will be a 10 foot wide paved trail through the park. The impact area will be a 20 foot wide corridor. Galen Bruer: Bruer asked if it was possible to fit a horse trail in that 20 foot wide corridor. Boe Carlson: Carlson answered by stating that we need to consider having horses next to rollerbladers, bicyclists, and walkers. This could be dangerous and spook the horses. Madeleine Linck: Linck asked if there was going to be a speed limit on the bike trails and if Three Rivers Park was anticipating fast bicyclists that could make this trail unsafe. Boe Carlson: Carlson explained the three classifications of bicyclists and felt that speed riders (the fastest of the three classifications) would travel on the side of the road. Tom Gregor: Gregor wanted to know what the usage percentage for pedestrians and bicyclists was on regional trails. Jonathan Blanning: Blanning answered by stating that 60% were bicyclists and 40% were other uses (35% walkers & joggers and 5% skaters). Ann Thies: Thies wanted to know if Hennepin County was prepared to address the issue of parking and bathrooms. Chris Sagsveen: Sagsveen mentioned that they were not looking at parking and bathroom facilities for this project. The funding they are providing is for Medina Park Commission Meeting Minutes September 20, 2006 Medina City Hall Page 7of11 the transportation component. If the municipality sees the need, they should step up and address the issue. Ann Thies: Thies wanted to know where Loretto is at in their process. Pete Lemke: Lemke informed everyone that Hennepin County would be presenting to Loretto's City Council on October 10, 2006 to hopefully get their approval. Ann Thies: Thies asked if dog walkers were allowed on a regional trail. Boe Carlson: Carlson stated that Three Rivers Park has designated trails, which are the regional trails, as dog walking trails. They are all on turf trails not paved trails. Ann Thies: Thies wanted to know if the park was willing to make adjustments of fines residents receive by walking their dogs through Baker Park to get to the Regional Trail. She proposed allowing a section of Baker Park that allowed dogs. Galen Bruer: Bruer wanted to know if we knew tonight what impact the East side trail would have on the Doc Side residents. Chris Sagsveen & Bruce Spaner: Sagsveen & Spaner answered that the fence in Doc Side would get relocated up in the same location by one slope. Robin Reid: Reid wanted to know the minimum width of the trail. Chris Sagsveen: Sagsveen said eight feet. Randy Hughes: Hughes made a recommendation for the trail to go on the east side while preserving the horse trail. Chris Sagsveen: Sagsveen stated that they would like the city to approve our footprints and give Hennepin County a detailed design recommendation. Ann Thies: Thies wanted to know how we are proposing to crossing Hamel Road/Co. Rd 115. Chris Sagsveen: Sagsveen mentioned a stop sign condition for vehicles approaching Co. Rd 19. Madeleine Linck: Linck was curious to know what the quality of experience in riding on this trail would be and if there was a landscaping plan north of Hwy 55. She mentioned the fact that 6 miles of the trail would be going past homes. Chris Sagsveen: Sagsveen said that there was no landscaping plan, but going south would look nicer. Galen Bruer: Bruer wanted to know if Hennepin County considers crossing County Road 19 with the park on the other side a safety issue. Chris Sagsveen: Sagsveen stated that the stop sign being right there does increase safety. Gerald Dykoff: Dykoff stated that everyone seems to be in an agreement along with himself that the main trail should be on the East side. Everyone also agrees on a smaller trail to Baker Park. We also feel the horse trail should be preserved. He did not understand the 20% deal and he did not understand why they could not have this trail and the horse trail. Robin Reid She is concerned about the neighborhood trail. If that stays part of this project it will be disruptive to Doc Side and a lot of pavement and trees will be removed. Reid thought this trail should be a city project later on by doing a more sensitive job in creating a smaller trail. Medina Park Commission Meeting Minutes September 20, 2006 Medina City Ha11 Page 8ofll A motion was made by Robin Reid and seconded by Madeleine Linck to take the neighborhood trail out of this project and be discussed as a separate project by the city to avoid MNDOT's eight feet wide trail requirements. Robin Reid and Madeleine Linck were in favor. Galen Bruer, Gerry Dykhoff, Ann Thies, Tom Gregor, and Randy Hughes all opposed. The motion did not pass. Ann Thies: Thies stated that she is not ready to give up a turf trail on the east side and there are safety and environmental issues on the west side and an ill placed box culvert on that side. She feels that the city needs to do more thinking. Robin Reid: Reid said that the box culvert does not solve the issue for Independence Beach because they still have to walk down County Road 19. Madeleine Linck: Linck wanted to know how this affects the Watershed district. Chris Sagsveen: Sagsveen said that they will have to follow the permitting process through the watershed and it will be looked at pretty closely. The impervious surface (paved) will be looked at really closely during that step of the process. Randy Hughes: Hughes asked how the short trail was going to get over the creek. Chris Sagsveen: Sagsveen said it would need some structural type of work. It could be done a number of ways. The cost estimate is $90,000 for that piece of the trail. Galen Bruer: Bruer said that Mr. Shields spoke tonight and he is the one that originally wanted a way to get to the Independence Beach area. Robin Reid: Reid wanted to know if the asphalt trails in the park are currently 8 feet wide. Boe Carlson: Carlson confirmed that they were 8 feet wide. A motion was made by Tom Gregor, seconded by Robin Reid to pursue plan 1 B with trail on east side of CR19, with recommendation to keep the horse trail as part of the plan, and to complete the Baker Park to Ardmore Avenue link, with limited impact on adjacent property owners as possible. Motion passed unanimously. Chad Adams: Stated this item is tentatively planned to go before City Council on October 17tb. B. Comprehensive Plan Neighborhood Meetings a. Medina City Council has requested the Park Commission, along with the Planning Commission, to facilitate neighborhood meetings at the community building. The Park Commission was asked to review the meeting dates and volunteer on which meeting they would like to facilitate. b. There was some confusion on where each neighborhood was located and it was noted by Chad Adams that there may be some crossover on which meeting residents could attend. Medina Park Commission Meeting Minutes September 20, 2006 Medina City Hall Page 9 of 11 c. Madeleine Linck asked what the Park Commission's role would be as volunteers. Chad Adams stated that the Park Commission would be facilitating discussion, not giving a presentation. The Park Commission could encourage discussion on park issues and planning commission will discuss land use issues. Adams mentioned the community survey results would be helpful information to give to the public at these meetings. Carolyn Smith thought it would be a good idea to have questions prepared for the residents to help stimulate discussion. d. Volunteer schedule: i. October 16, 2006: Galen Bruer ii. October 19, 2006: Ann Thies & Madeleine Linck iii. November 1, 2006: Tom Gregor iv. December 6, 2006: Gerry Dykhoff & Randy Hughes C. Process for Setting Commission Agendas/Canceling Meetings a. Due to discussion held on the cancellation of the August 16, 2006 Park Commission meeting, staff Park Commission members were asked to set a process for the scheduling and canceling of future meetings. b. Ann Thies suggested having a schedule of tabled events so they do not get forgotten about. c. Randy Hughes suggested we should have a decision made at the previous meeting if we are going to cancel a meeting. d. Randy Hughes also reminded Park Commission members to give Chad Adams ideas if they would like something put on an agenda. D. Appointment of a new Recording Secretary a. Robin Reid is requesting a new volunteer from either the Park Commission or City Staff to relieve her of her duties as recording secretary. b. Gerald Dykoff then thanked Robin for her outstanding job in her preparing of the minutes. c. No one wanted to be primarily responsible for taking the minutes, but Madeleine Linck and Ann Thies both stated that they could fill in when necessary. d. It was then discussed if the Park Commission could start recording a more abbreviated form of the minutes. It was decided to focus on recording the motions and who opposed each motion and writing down the key points from each meeting. STAFF REPORT A. Update on Open Space Task Force Medina Park Commission Meeting Minutes September 20, 2006 Medina City Ha11 Page l0 of 11 1. The Open Space Task Force has drafted two maps relating to land already protected and developed and land being considered for preservation. 2. Ann Thies felt these maps were not ready to hand out because they still have an issue in trying to define these draft maps. B. Update on Medina Celebration Days (booth) 1. Randy Hughes has agreed to have a booth at this year's Medina Celebration Day on September 23, 2006 from 4:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m. The Park Commission decided on having trail maps and general information on the Park Commission at the booth. C. Update on Hunter Drive Trail 1. Chad Adams provided the Park Commission with a brief update on easement acquisition for the Hunter Drive Trail. Adams explained how the City of Medina was struggling with this project because they found another sliver of land for which the city will need another easement. If the Holasek property ever develops, the city could require the road move to the east, which will give the City more room on the west to develop the trail. 2. Adams wanted to know if the Park Commission was still comfortable with the location of the trail. The Park Commission is still comfortable with the location of the trail as long as it does not get ripped up when the Holasek property develops. Another option would be to just wait until the Holasek property develops and the road moves west. D. Update on Trail Study; Land Acquisition 1. The trail study will get redone with this next comprehensive plan process. Park dedication fees would be used if everything works out cleanly. There is a total of 11 acres. 2. Ann Thies felt the city should create a wider shoulder so the horses could have a loop (access from Parkview or Willow). Horses can not ride on red rock. The City needs to find out the surface that was used on trails to make sure it is suitable for horses. E. Joint meeting with Park and Planning Commission 1. There will be a joint meeting with the Council, Park Commission and Planning Commission on October 24, 2006 at the Hamel Community Building at 6:00 p.m. before the comprehensive plan open house. A motion was made, seconded and passed unanimously for a joint Council, Park and Planning Commission Meeting on October 24, 2006 at 6:00 p.m. at Hamel Community Building. Update: The Hunter Lions Park storage shed was re -roofed instead of the picnic shelter. The city had a contract and the company we used realized their mistake and will now re - roof the picnic shelter. Medina Park Commission Meeting Minutes September 20, 2006 Medina City Hall Page 11 of 11 A motion was made by Robin Reid, seconded by Tom Gregor, and passed unanimously to adjourn the meeting. The meeting was adjourned at 10:32 p.m. NEXT MEETING: October 18, 2006 Minutes prepared by Jodi Wunsch