HomeMy Public PortalAbout2015-11-17 AttorneyClient In The Matter Of The Church By The Sea CASE 15-25961CA081
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BAL HARBOUR V ILL AGE
ATT ORNEY/C LIENT SESS I ON
I N THE MATTER OF THE CHURCH BY THE SEA IN C . V.
14 BAL HARBOUR VILLAGE
1 5 CASE NUMBER : 15 -2 5961 CA 08
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BAL HARBOUR VILLAG E HALL
655 96th STREET
BAL HARBOUR , FLORIDA 33154
TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 1 7 , 20 1 5
5 :41 p .m . -6 :1 7 p .m.
Taken before Mary G . Stephenson , FP R , Notary
Public for t he State of Flo r ida
TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOC I ATES , INC .
(305) 4 4 4-7331
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2 APPEARANCES :
3 COUNCILMEMBERS :
4 MARTI N PACK E R, MAYOR
PATR I CIA COHEN , ASS I STANT MAYOR
5 GABR I EL GROISMAN
SE T H E . SA L VER
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VILLAGE MANAGER :
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JORGE M. GONZALEZ
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VILLAGE ATTORNEY :
WEISS SEROTA HELFMAN
PASTORIZA COLE & BON I SKE , P .A .
BY : RICHARD JAY WE ISS , ESQ .
JOSEPH SEROTA , ESQ.
16 VILLAGE CLERK :
17 DWI GH T S . DAVIE
(PRESENT ONLY DURING P UBL I C PORT I ON}
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TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOC I ATES , INC.
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1 T hereupo n, t he f o llowing proceed i ngs were had :
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MAYOR PACKER : Call ing th i s public meeting
to order .
Clerk, please ca l l the ro l l .
THE CLER K: Yes , roll ca ll .
Mayor Packer .
MAYOR PACKE R : Here .
THE CLERK : Assistant Mayor Cohen .
ASSISTANT MAYO R COH EN : Here .
THE CLERK : Counci l man Groisman .
COUNCILMAN GROISMAN : Here .
THE CLERK : Counci l man Salver is not here.
Counci l man Sanz is no t here.
We have a quorum .
MAYOR PACKER : The time i s now 5:41 . We
are about to have an attorney/client session in
acco r dance with Florida Statute 286.011(8)
regarding the litigat i on styled as The Church By
The Sea Incorporated ve r sus Bal Harbo u r Village in
the Eleventh Judicia l Circuit, Miami -Dade County ,
Case Number 15-25961 CA 08.
The session is estima te d a last one ha l f of
an hou r and the following people wi ll be
attendance at this mee t i ng : Myself, Martin
Packer , Assistant Mayor Patricia Cohen , Councilman
TAY LOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES , INC .
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Gabr i el Groisman . Councilman Salver is absent ,
Councilman Jaime Sanz is absent . Vi l lage Manager
Jorge Gonzalez, Village Attorney Richard J . Weiss,
Village Attorney Joseph H . Serota.
These proceedings wi ll be recorded by a
certified court repo r ter and , at the litigation of
al l litigation discussed , the transcript wil l be
made part of the public record .
Al l those individuals who I have not named
should now leave at this time .
MR. SEROTA : We can leave .
MR . WEISS : You can s t ay . We can go into
another room . Thank you .
(Thereupon, the session was resumed in
another room . )
(Thereupon , Counci l man Sa l ver entered the
room. )
MAYOR PACKER : Let the record show that
Councilman Salve r is here.
MR . WE ISS : I think you all know my partner
Joe Serota .
MR . SEROTA : We have been here before for
executive sessions, but let me jus t spend a mo ment
again reminding all of you that this case, The
Church By The Sea case , by the way, can go on for
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a while. It's also the kind of case that can be
reso l ved very quickly.
Once the case is resol ved , anything I say,
anything you say here will become public record .
We need your i nput. I am going to talk to
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you about what I have got, but I just make ment i on
to you that within, specia ll y for this case,
within a relativel y short per i od, we can h ave
this t ranscript will be public .
Let me just ta lk to you a little bit about
the background of this case, what the case is ,
what the issues are, some of the facts that we
found, and then see i f Jorge has anything to add
in terms of facts, and any questions that you
have, and th en ultimately we want to have some
direction from you .
The church is the plaintiff in this case.
Church By The Sea is suing the village in seek i ng
two forms of relief . T hey are seeki ng declaratory
judgment, which is basically a ruling from the
court on a legal i ssue . What th ey are asking is
they are saying that the village has interfered
with the building official 's responsibilities.
MR . WEISS: Vil l age council.
MR . SEROTA: At times, it 's the village ,
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and at times, it 's the village council has
interfered with the bu i lding offic ial's
responsibility.
They want a declaration that says that has
happened factually, and, number two, they want a
declaration that the village and village council
is precluded from interfe re nce i n the future.
That is the first thing they are looking for is a
declaratory judgment .
The second thing that they are looking for
is what is called a wr i t of mandamus . A writ of
mandamus is a ruling from the court that requires
the building official to do someth i ng.
mandate is really what i t is.
It is a
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The building official here, what they are
asking is that the bu il ding offic i al affirmatively
grant two permits. One is for asbestos removal,
and one is for the demo l ition permit relating to
the church.
Now , the law is pretty clear that the judge
can't rule what the result is, but it is true that
the judge could rule tha t the building official
must make a decision.
MR . WEISS: The judge can 't tell her or
him --it 's actually Raul. Can 1 t tell him what to
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do . He can just say, listen . Th e judge could
say , listen, you d o whatever you want to do, but
you have to make a decis i on.
MR . SEROTA : Ma k e a decision .
MR . WEISS : That is what they are asking
the court to do .
MAYOR PACKER: T i me lim it?
MR. SEROTA : Within whatever the reasonable
per i od of time is, whenever it should be done .
ASSISTANT MAYOR COHEN: Obvious l y .
MR. SEROTA : I n order for t h at to h appen ,
for the judge to rule this way , the judge has to
find this is what is called a ministerial sanction
as opposed to a discretionary func t io n .
Ministerial meaning t h at every t hing i s there .
have to make a decision .
You
The f act i s that t he r e are o t her cases out
there in which things like this h ave happened
before , and where the judge has required the
building officia l to make a dec i s i on .
So that is what t h ey are as k i ng for .
Just to bring you up to date, it was just
filed. We haven 't responded yet . T he r e is a
hearin g in the mo r n ing tomorrow mo rning . The r e is
a hearing just on thei r action to --they want a
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case management conference to expedi t e this whole
action .
COUNCILMAN GROISMAN : I s there an actual
case manageme nt conference tomorrow?
MR. SE ROT A : Case management conference,
yes, 9:30 in the mo r ning.
At that time , they are asking for the judge
to k i nd o f set up a schedule, wh i c h i s if there 's
depositions that are needed, d i scovery , maybe a
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fina l hearing da t e .
that.
Chances a re the j u dge wi l l do
COUNCILMAN SALVER : Are we ab l e to be
deposed in this?
P otentially. Potentially . We MR. SEROT A :
will get into that. Yes , pote n t i ally , you could
be deposed because they are accusing the council
of interfering . So t h a t could happen.
T he l ega l issue is can the building
officia l be compelled to issue permits , which is
what they asking for .
Number t wo is can the council be enjoined
or stopped from in terfering.
The answer to the f i rs t question, I 'll tell
you legally, is the bu i ld i ng official can be
compelled t o act , not to i ssue perm i ts .
TA YLOR REESE AND ASSOCIATES , INC.
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Okay?
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Can the council be enjoined from
interfering? You k now , maybe . Maybe.
I mean under --there is a Florida statute
relating to building officials that says a
building official has to be able to make his or
her decision without i nterference from nonlicensed
people. Meaning, if you are not a licensed
building official .
Now , in your charter , it says you guys
can 't direct staff, that you go through the
manager, and the manager d i rects staff. So these
issues, these legal issues are kind of r elated .
I n terms of t he facts , and, again , I would
ask if Jorge may have closer facts because these
are more recent facts because this is really hour
to hour in terms of what we have .
My understanding i s that the building
official doesn 't yet have a to tal pac ka ge to make
a decision relating to the building --to the
demolition permit, t ha t there is still a
vegetation plan tha t was needed, a DERM approval
and a bond.
Jorge , is that your un d erstand ing?
MR . GONZALEZ : Let me kind of fill in as of
noon today. What Joe is talking about,
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understand, there are like two sets of permits
that have been requested . There is the stuff that
you do before you demolish . You have to clear the
building of any hazardous material, asbestos, and
the like. That application has been received and
is in th e process of b e ing reviewed for approval .
It has not been granted yet, bu t it is in t hat
p ro cess. That is here in our building . You need
to have that removed prior to demolishing the
building.
They have then proceeded to pursue a
demolition permit and in doing so, one of the
f i rst things you do is you n eed a DERM app r ova l
from Miam i-Dade County. They come in , they get
their application stamp e d by the building
department here and take i t t o the county . Tha t
DERM approval if it has been secured or not I am
not aware, but an approved se t of p l ans from DERM
has not been received by o u r bu i lding department.
MAYOR PACKER: They submi tt ed it to t hem ?
MR. GONZALEZ: They have submitted it to
DERM , b ut i t has not come back to us.
Once it would come back to us, it would
come back to us and then it would have to go
through the various disciplines that we have,
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mechanical , e l ectr i ca l, zoning, et cetera , and
each of t hem wou l d do their review , and upon
completing all those reviews in an affirmative
way , then they a l so t h en have to have completed
the asbestos removal.
They must also have to provide utility
connect letters i ndicating that utilities have
come in and removed the meters , et cetera, and
have to post a bond for vegetation .
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There are things stil l that need to happen
before we can issue them a full demolition permit .
MR . SEROTA : Jorge, are you think i ng a
week? Do you have any idea?
MR. GONZALEZ : I t's h ard to say .
What we have done for them as a courtesy
that is extended to anybody who wants to do
business and build in Bal Harbour is we have done
what is called a dry run. What t hat means is
while the permits are a t the county being reviewed
by DERM , they have submi t ted t h e same set of plans
to us and we a re do i ng a d r y run . We are running
it through our building, electrical, mechanical ,
et cetera, so we can give them some comments.
So that theoretically when they get their
permits reviewed by DERM, they make the changes
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they need to make from t he comments that we
provided to them and when we do our fo r mal
review --
MAYOR PACKER: I t 's done quickly.
MR. GONZALEZ: --i t 's done a l itt l e
faster. That is a co u r t esy. We h ave done that
for everybody. We have not denied that courtesy
to the church in th i s in stance, b u t that said,
until he gets the p l a n s from DER M, there is not
really a set of app l ications that we a re
evaluat i ng.
MR . SEROTA: Jorge, your understandi ng is
that the asbestos permit is re l a t ed to the
demolition permit?
MR. GONZALEZ: No . They are two different
permits.
MR. SEROTA: I know they are two different
permits , but --
MR. GONZALEZ : So t hat was a request .
MR. WEISS: It's a pre
MR. GO NZ ALE Z: I t 's a precursor to that.
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In short order, we might be ready to provide them
that permit, which al l ows them to begin to remove
tile and AC duct work and other things that might
be asbestos or hazardous materials .
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You need to show that completed before you
demolish.
MR. WEISS: It's c l ear l y a first step.
COUNCILMAN GRO I SMAN: From a factual
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perspective, I think that the complaint, which is
obviously political l y motiva ted, is false on its
face . The premise of the entire suit is that the
village council has directed the building official
not to issue the permit.
MR. SEROTA: Well, there's a couple of
th ings that are false on the face l isten i ng to
Jorge .
Number one is t hat it 's not ready to be
issued by anybody . Number one.
Number two, you are r i ght, that the
issuance is being slowed down or stopped by the
village council or interfered with by the village
council, both are factually incorr ec t .
MAYOR PACKER: We should answer this that
we have not interfered.
MR. SEROTA: Right. We just deny the
interference. We deny the interference. We also
deny the fact that the building official has done
anything wrong.
Now, the fact is this is moving so quick ly,
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by the time it comes around to filing an answer,
which is probably not due for another couple of
weeks, the whole thing could go away if it's
granted . If it 's denied , that is fine too. If
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it's denied , by the way, then they have to take an
appeal.
MR. GONZALEZ: If what is denied?
MR. SEROTA: If the permits are denied. If
the permits are denied, they can take an appeal to
the County Board of Ruling and appeal.
is a process.
So there
MR . GONZALEZ : That is appealing the
building official's dec i s i on .
that is not uncommon either.
That is some t hing
COUNCILMAN GROISMA N: That is separate and
apart from this lawsuit , right?
MR . SEROT A: I th ink the lawsuit goes away.
As long as the bui l ding official makes a decision
either granting or denying these two permits, my
understanding is the case goes away.
MR. WEISS : I t hink to go back to the
question that Seth asked, which was as long as
this case is pending because this is a suit in
equity , and mandamus is given some priority by the
courts in sort of movi ng forward because they are
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trying to get the governmen t to take some action,
the judge could set a pretty aggressive discovery
schedu l e . He could say , you know , you have to
have your interrogator i es in by th is t i me,
depos i t i ons have to be taken by that time .
So it is possi ble , to answer your question ,
tha t they i mmediate l y s t art se t ting down
depos i t i ons .
COUNCILMAN GROISMAN: What if we stipulate
that the village council isn't interfering wi t h
the bui l d i ng?
MR . WE I SS : It is in t erfering or is not?
COUNCI L MAN GRO I SMAN : Isn 't .
MR . SERO T A : T he re is nothing to stipulate .
They are saying we are and we are saying we are
not .
COUNC IL MAN GROISMAN : No. They are just
saying we are . We haven 't saying anything yet.
MR. SEROTA : We haven 't said anything .
there is no stipulat i on.
MR . WEISS: Th e only way to avo i d that
So
issue is to stipulate t hat you are. That makes a
the i ssue moot , but , certainly , we don 't want to
do that . That is a bad thing.
COUNCILMAN GRO I SMAN: I would consider
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really serving a 57.105 . The entire thing is so
frivolous on its face, and it's an abuse of the
whole system for political purposes .
MR. SEROTA : Well , listen, I agree with
you. I was thinking abo u t the same thing. They
have no --well, the point is I don't know what
evidence they have or what they have heard
relating to the first i ssue --o k ay? --whether
there has been any --l isten, an inquiry, was
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someone's inquiry --you guys are elected . If you
make an inquiry as to what is going on, I don 't
think that is interference. Okay? I'm making it
up . I haven't talked to any of you. I don't know
if any of you had any contact whatsoever.
COUNCI L MAN GRO I SMAN: T he bui l ding official
you are saying?
MR. SEROTA : T he b uildin g official.
COUNCILMAN GROISMAN: I hope not.
MR. SEROTA : T he fact is that , listen,
Jorge works for you guys. I f yo u have a question,
that is why you get elected , you certa inl y ask
Jorge . There is nothing wrong wi t h that . That is
not interference . You are just doing your job .
COUNCILMAN GRO I SMAN : Did anyone here have
contact with the bu ildi ng official?
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MAYOR PACKER: I haven 't spoken to her .
COUNCILMAN GRO I SMAN: You, Seth? Patricia?
ASSISTANT MAYOR COHEN : Not about this . I
have spoken to Jo rge.
MR. GONZALEZ: When t hey say the v i llage
council , do we take the definition that it's the
council as a body?
Because the counc il as a body can 't even
operate unless the public can take a vote or tha t ,
in a sense, wi ll it be defined as the village
council , one individual?
MR . SEROTA : They are saying the village
council has interfered. Now , they haven 't sued
the village
MR . GONZALEZ: My po in t is I'm trying to
distinguish between the body versus the village
council person.
ASSISTANT MAYOR COHEN : T hat is a very good
question .
MAYOR PA CKER : Village council memb ers.
MR. GONZALEZ: I t doesn't say members.
says village co u ncil .
MR. SEROTA: Keep in mind, they are no t
asking for money. They are ask in g for --
MR. GONZA L EZ: Action .
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MR . SEROTA : --action. So let 's say in
the first count what they are saying is t h at they
want a declaration that the vi ll age council , that
the village through the v ill age council has
violated this Florida statute that says you can 't
interfere with building o f fic i a l s .
COUNCILMAN GRO I SMAN: What if we agree to
the writ?
MR. SEROTA : We co uld .
MAYOR PACKER : Why shou ld we?
COUNCI L MAN GROISMAN : Because the bu i lding
official has to dec i de it .
MR . GONZA LEZ : They are go i ng to do that
whether we are sued or not .
COUNCILMAN GROISMAN: We can't interfere
wi t h the building of fi cia l anyways. So i nstead of
being dragged into a l awsuit for nothing, for
something that we can 't do anyways .
COUNCILMAN SALVER : And risking having to
get deposed .
COUNCILMAN GROISMAN : We can get deposed .
I don 't ca r e .
MR. SEROTA: I don't like the idea of
agreeing to the writ because you are
essentially --it could be seen as you are
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admitting that they are entitled to it .
As I understand the truth , okay? The truth
is the building official is doing the job the
building official is appo i nted to do. Tha t is ,
waiting for a complete application, waiting for
all the permits. I mean, for all the
requirements, and then we will iss ue a ruling.
COUNCILMAN SALVER: There is two permits,
though. There is the asbestos permit that is not
waiting on anything.
MR. WEISS: What we are saying is based
upon the indication that we have, even the
asbestos permit is being processed.
MR. GONZALEZ: I t 's processed. It's
pending right now . The last thing we talked about
is the church is an entity made up of individuals.
So there is someone that signed an applicat i on
saying, I 'm authorized to s i gn saying thus and
such. We want to make sure that was properly
done , you know, because it 's not an application to
change windows. It's an application that is going
to tear down stuff. So we can 't want it done in a
manner that is improper . So we need to validate
that either through minutes or some other
affirmation of their law yers or something to say
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yes .
MR . WEISS: Of course, that issue was an
issue that was raised in the other l awsuit --
MR. GONZALEZ : Precisely .
MR . WE I SS: which is the one that Lynn
Bloch Mullen filed against the church. What she
said was that these decisions that were made to
sell to the shops , to do a ll t h ese things were not
properly noticed and not properly authorized by
the church. So we haven 't made that inquiry
because the truth is a t the hearing t hat I have
sent you a bunch of information that happened last
week , the judge could have said , you know what ,
you are right, there is not proper --Lynn Bloch
Mullen is correct. But we didn't want to issue a
decision in advance of t he judge doing that
because that would have been --now we know that
the judge has ruled that L ynn Bloch Mullen doesn 't
have standing. I think I have talked to you about
standing .
injunction .
And also den ied her her motion for an
So it is back in our court now because we
now still have to process the bui l ding permit .
we will go ahead and do wha t we talked about,
So
Jorge, which is have the bui l ding official write a
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letter to the church and say we would like to see
the minutes that authorized reverend whoever it
was to sign this document.
MR. SEROTA: Now, Gabe, when you say it is
politically motivated, this is not the first
mandamus act i on that we have defended wi th Shubin
on the other side . We just went through a case
representing Grove Isle where he filed almost an
identical mot i on asking the C i ty of Mi ami. We
weren't representing the C it y o f Mi am i .
rep resent ing Grove Is l e .
We were
I don 't think it's so much politically
motivated as i t is just to push us to make a
decision because we are sitting around here and we
are all talking abou t i t i nstead of this is the
kind of thing that you guys p r obably never even
think about.
COUNCILMAN GROISMAN: T hat is wha t I mean.
I meant the same thing .
ASSISTANT MAYOR COHEN: I think, okay, you
correct me, but I think it's to intimidate us. It
feels bully. I t feels ungrounded. You don 't have
to be an attorney to f i gure this out . There is no
basis and it 's just to scare us.
that effect on me .
It doesn 't have
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MR . WEISS : I t 's saber rattling to try
to --
ASSISTANT MAYOR COHEN : Exactly.
MR . WEISS : --to try to let you know how
se r ious. I don't really ge t --a lot of us have
talked about it .
doing this.
I don't get the politics of
MR . SEROTA: Well , it gives him a
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mechanism. If it doesn't happen , they now are in
court with a judge , with a process , and they can
take action .
COUNC ILMA N GROISMAN : Normally , I wou l d
have done it after adverse --I don 't know if i t's
a ruling , but if the judge granted it , we would be
at the point --
MR . SEROTA: Right , they are doing it
preemptive l y .
But, Jorge , let me just ask you this
because th i s is something we can say to the judge
tomorrow . On e way or the o t her do you think that
a decis i on is going to be made on both of these
things within two weeks?
MR . GONZALEZ: With respect to the asbestos
removal , absolutely.
With respect to the demolition permit, it 's
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a function of when we get the permits from DERM.
MR. SEROTA: I understand that.
COUNCILMAN GROISMAN: Once we get them .
MR. GONZALEZ: Once we get the permits from
DER M we can probably do our review within the
week.
ASSISTAN T MAYOR COHEN: Assuming that you
get clearance from wh omever you are going to
contact.
MR. GONZALEZ: Our review, which is the
parts related to mechanical, electr ical, plumbing ,
et cetera.
MR. WEISS: Which , by the way, the issue
that Patricia was just rai sing , it 's a l ittle
dicey because it's the subject of a pending
lawsuit, but we have to do our jobs, and we have
to look at the mat e ria l tha t they give us. We
have to make the best dec is ion as we can.
But it 's interesting because --interesting
to lawyers . Not so interesting to you , but it 's
int erest ing that th e iss ue, that issue --
MR . GONZALEZ: The heart of t heir case.
MR . SEROTA: The heart of their case that
L y nn fi led is a decision t h at we have to make
anyway .
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MR. GONZAL E Z : Where I was going w i th this ,
what we don't con t rol is the u t ility connects and
the
MR . SEROTA : The only reason I ask is
tomorrow we can say to the judge, listen, we think
a decision , we can 't guarantee it, we are not here
to have an order entered saying we have to do it,
but we think it 's a matter of two weeks .
MR . GONZALEZ : Two to three weeks assuming
we get to there . That is the first question.
The other thing we are saying MR . WEISS :
about the authority issue is that once the
let 's assume for a moment that the village comes
to the conclusion they did have authority , and she
issues a building permit, then Lynn Bloch Mullen
or the people that are opposed to the issuance of
the permit can f i le the same kind of appeal and
say, you know what, they didn 't have the
authority . So they have their own remedies even
af t er . The fact that the village issues a
decision one way or another doesn 't necessarily .
COUNCILMAN GROISMAN : Who is that appeal
made to?
MR. SEROTA : Board of Rules and --BORA
it 's called , Dade County .
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COUNCI L MAN GROISMAN : So , again, not the
village council .
MR . WEISS: Not t he village council. You
guys are out of it .
What Joe is saying is important , t hat the
law is that the idea of a building official is
that he or she is making decisions based upon more
th i ngs that would be in Seth 's world as opposed to
arguments. There 's 1 7 things that need to be
checked , and once you have those things checked
yo u make your decision as opposed to, well, I l ike
it, I don't like it . It 's not subjective . It's
mostly objective , and t h e cases that we researched
in Grove Isle, the cases where the mandamus does
not get granted are ones where they can show there
is some subjective elements . Like the zoning ,
there is an issue of interpre t ation of the zoning
code , which are a little bit more subjective or
there is policy.
So even if Raul issues the building permit
for demo li tion, then Lynn Bloch Mullen and whoever
wants to co u ld go and challenge .
MR. SEROTA : If they have standing.
MR . WEISS: If they have standing . The
problem she is going to have is t hat the judge has
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ruled she doesn 't ha ve standing.
COUNCILMAN GRO I SMAN : We wil l l i kely get
dragged into that lawsuit too , right?
MR . SEROTA : Tha t is what Shubin said was
that one of the --that there was a lack of
indispensable part i es.
MR . W.E I SS: We are ta l king about the suit
that Lynn has brought agai n s t the church, that
John Shubin said the v il lage needs to be brought
into this as well as the county because they are
the ones that have some control over these
permits .
MR . SEROTA : So un l ess you people have any
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other directio n at this point , as I understand it,
the staff wi ll go forward and do what the staff
has to do . I would tell you we have no evidence
that any of you have interfered in any way.
would tell you, respectfully, you shouldn't.
I
Okay? If you have any questions , you have the
manager. He 's in charge of s t a ff , and that is it.
Now , I would h ope --we wi l l f i nd out
tomorrow how aggressive they a r e. I mean, i f we
tel l the j udge that we think , judge, we think it 's
p r obably, we are probab l y ta lk ing about a coup l e
of weeks h ere and we can't guarantee it because we
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are wa i ting for information from the other side .
MR . GONZA L EZ : They will want some more
definitiveness on the asbestos removal because
that gets them started.
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MR. SERO TA : Wel l , l isten, we are not going
to comm i t to anything tomorrow. We are basically
going to tell , judge , we think this whole thing
will like ly go away within a coup le of weeks, but,
Your Honor, you can do whatever you want.
MR . WEISS: By the way, the conference is
scheduled tomorrow, I don't know what time it i s
when the historica l preservation board meets.
MAYOR PACKER : 2 :00 o 'clock.
COUNCILMAN GROISMAN: Who is the judge in
t his case?
MR. SEROTA: I was afraid you were going to
ask .
COUNCILMAN GROISMAN: Is it the same judge
as --
ASSISTAN T MAYOR COHEN : The other one is
Rosa. What was her name?
MR . WEISS : Rosa Rodriguez .
ASSISTANT MAYOR COHEN : I heard she i s
really smart.
MR. SEROTA : Yes, 08. I don 't know.
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should know , but I don't know.
MR. WEISS: So tha t i s who that is.
MR. GONZALEZ : Th i s i s the first part of
i t , which is t h e asser t ion tha t the in t erference
took plac e. We shou l d res pond to that somewhat.
MR . SEROTA: It 's in front of Gisella
Cardonne .
COUNCILMAN SA L VE R: Is i t in county court?
MR. WEISS: No.
MR. SEROTA: Circuit court.
ASSISTANT MAYOR COHEN : Gisella Cardonne.
MR . SEROTA : Gise ll a Cardonne Ely.
MR . WEISS : So on t he mandamus count, we
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are basically going t o te ll the court that we are
processing these permits in accordance with our
normal procedures.
MR . SEROTA : And we haven't done anything
wrong.
MR. WEISS: And we haven't done anything
wrong .
MR. GONZALEZ: They haven 't submitted the
papers.
MR . WEISS: We do n 't have the informa t ion
we need to process permits, and th at we wil l
process them in the norma l cou r se.
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In t he other count, we are going to te ll ,
we are going to bas i ca l ly when we have to , we are
going to deny the fact that you guys have
interfered.
MR . SEROTA : I think the important thing is
I would take a, I am not going to say aggressive,
a very strong position tomorrow , which i s, judge ,
this is an unfounded situation.
You know, just so the court knows , there
has been no interference , and t he only reason t h at
a decision hasn't been mad e i s because the
applications and the information tha t we need is
not complete , and we believe that a decision will
be made within a couple of weeks .
This is much ado about nothing .
That is i t .
COUNCILMA N GROISMAN : T here is no need to
waste the court 's time .
MR . SEROTA: Right . Now , I don 't know what
the judge will say. The judge could say , you
know , wait a coup l e of weeks and see , or if they
want to start taking depos i tions or something ,
which really would be an unnecessarily nasty thing
to do, that t hey cou l d do it for the i ntimidation
factor .
MR . WEISS: Spec i a ll y people that are
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trying to get three votes together .
MR . SEROTA: We would ask the court to a t
least wait two weeks . Th i s may go awa y. Just so
we don't have any unnecessary fees generated .
That is really it.
COUNCILMAN SA L VER : When is this taking
place? Is it tomorrow at 9 :30?
MR . SEROTA: Righ t .
COUNCILMAN SALV E R : So we will know .
MR . WEISS : As soon as we know something, I
text you and I e -mai l you and send you everyth i ng.
MAYOR PACKER : Can the judge take that
under advisement , not give a decision right then
and there?
COUNCILMAN GRO I SMAN : T hey are not asking
for anything tomorrow .
MR . SEROTA : T omorrow is j u st p l anning.
MR. WEISS : Joe wi ll get a little bit of a
feel tomorrow about how the judge fee l s about the
case .
COUNCILMAN GRO I SMAN : And what the i r real
strategy is.
MR . SEROTA: Exactly. Right.
There i s two approaches they can u se. One,
they could be , we are in where we are , we are
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willing to wait a couple of weeks, and see what
happens.
Or they could decide , no , we want to start
taking depositions in three days. We want to
start deposing the council members . They could
take that position . Obvious l y, we w i ll resist
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that , and I think it will go away .
see the emerge n cy her e.
I don 't really
MR . WE I SS: I tell you, just as a thought ,
the shops are play ing for --they are p la ying a
long game , not the short game. So par t of t h is is
you guys may grant the application of the shops
and it goes forward and there is no litigation
over that . At some poin t in the fu tu re , though ,
if the applica tions from the shops are denied,
then they may use this as a free discovery tool to
get information about --they will ask you all
sorts of questions . We will protect you, but a
deposition is a deposition .
MR. SEROTA: Once the building official
decides either granti n g or denying, it seems like
it 's moot.
MR . WEISS: But i f they take the position,
they try to take depositions right away --
MR. SEROTA: Right away .
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MR. WEISS: --they can use it just to have
a chance to put you in the witness stand .
MR . SEROTA: I mean, we will resist. We
will say , judge, we think this is nothing but an
attempt at intimidation.
MR. WEISS: We will file a motion for
protec t ive order.
MR. GONZALEZ : What I suspect is, another
thing the village does from time to time as a
courtesy, is to al l ow an early start . That means
it allows you to star t to work up t o the first
inspection while you are p e nd in g your permits .
Those co urte s ies have been extended to the
shops and to others. I n t his instance given
COUNCILMAN GROISMAN : Given the lawsuits .
MR . GONZALEZ: Given the g ivens , it's best
not to do an earl y start . Let 's get our p ermits
a ll aligned and make sure e very t hing i s al l r ight .
They may be say i ng or v iewing i t as we are --
MAYOR PACKER: Give us the same p r ivileges
that you have done for everybody else .
MR . SEROTA: Except they specifically don 't
mention that , Jorge, in t he lawsuit, wh i ch I was
aware that we didn't grant them an early start
because I think t hey recogn iz e that it 's
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discretio n ary.
MR. WEISS: Just an early start on
demolition .
COUNCILMAN GROISMAN: I thi nk it 's
important to dot ou r I 's and cross our T 's on
making sure that whoever signed it act u ally has
authority on behalf of t he entity .
MR. GONZALEZ: That is the la st piece we
are wai t ing on that piece.
COUNCILMAN SALVER : Do they know we are
waiting on that or no? It sounded like we are
still
MR . GONZALEZ : No . We are going to send
them a letter.
You wi ll help draft i t?
MR . WEISS: Yes .
MR. GONZALEZ : My advice is respond.
MR . WEISS: Ok a y.
COUNCILMAN GROISMAN: Okay .
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MR . WEISS : Mr. Mayor, if you could just --
obviously, this i s not t he end . You can cal l me,
you can call Jorge , ta l k about it with him.
MR . GONZALEZ: We have another executive
session .
MR . WEISS: Yes , we do.
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MR . SEROTA : Open the door .
MAYOR PACKER : I will now r eopen the public
meet i ng .
MR. WEISS : Any public out here wanting t o
come in? No .
MAYOR PACKER : The attorney/client sess i o n
has now been terminated and members of the general
public are now invited to return for any further
proceedings or matters .
MR . WEISS : Now we are in a public hea ri ng.
(The r eupon , t he p r oceedi ngs were a djou r ned
at 6 :17 p .m .)
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C E R T I F I C A T E
5 I, Mary G . Step h enson, FPR, State of Florida at
6 Large, certify that I was au t horized to and did
7 stenographically report the foregoing proceedings and
8 that the transcript is a true and complete record of my
9 stenographic notes .
10
11 Dated this 2nd day of December , 2015.
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