HomeMy Public PortalAbout1997-10-21 Council MeetingCOUNCIL MEETING
BAL HARBOUR VILLAGE
MEETING DATE : OCTO BER 21, 1 997
4:00 P .M.
(EXCERPT)
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
1 3899 Biscayne Bou l e v ard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944 -9884
BAL HARBOR COUNCIL MEMBERS :
ESTELLE SPIEGEL, MAYOR
ANDREW R. HIRSCHL, ASSISTANT MAYOR
JAMES E. BOGGESS, COUNCILMAN
PEG E. GORSON, COUNCILMAN
DANIELS. TANTLEFF, COUNCILMAN
ALFRED J. TREPPEDA, VILLAGE MANAGER
JEANETTE HORTON, VILLAGE CLERK
RICHARD WEISS, VILLAGE ATTORNEY
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami , Florida 33181
(305) 944 -9884
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
1 (Thereupon, the following proceedings were
2 had:)
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MS. HORTON: An Ordinance of Ba l
Harbour Village, F lorida, Providing for
rezoning from the "PC" Private Club Zoning
District to the "OF" Ocean Front Zoning
District of the "Beach Club Site" shown as
Tract "A" on the Plat of "Ocean Front Section
of Bay Harbour" recorded in Plat Book 44, at
Page 27, of the Public Records of Dade County,
Florida, located at 10201 Collins Avenue in Bal
Harbour ; amending Section 2 1-78 "D i strict Map",
Section 21-14 7 "Boundary Designation" and
Section 21-282 "Boundary Designation" of
Chapter 21 11 Zoning" of the Bal Harbour Village
Code to reflect the rezon ing of the property as
described a bove; providing severability;
providing effective date.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: I will ask that the
staff s peak on this, perhaps Mike Miller would
be the first.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Mike, just
before you begin. Mayor, if I may?
I just want to put some perspective on
this proceeding.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
{305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
4
This is a quasi-judicial proceeding.
The staff, the City's Planner, will present the
staff's recommendation initially.
Thereafter, the Applicant will have an
opportunity to put on their case and their
evidence.
Anybody who wishes to speak in
opposition to the application will have an
opportunity to speak. The Applicant will then
have an opportunity to rebut that opposition,
and then the matter will be considered and
voted upon by the Council.
In order to change the zoning on a
piece of property in the City, by State law you
are required to do it by Ordinance and that
Ordinance, in order to be adopted, will require
actually two hearings. But, of course, in
order to get to the second hearing, the
Ordinance would have to pass today.
So, there will be a full public hearing
today. Everybody will have an opportunity who
wishes to speak, so long as you are not
repetitive, and there will be a time limit I
understand on each speaker of three minutes.
Assuming that the Ordinance passes
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
1 5
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
today, if it does on the first reading, then
there would be a second reading or a second
5
public hearing on the same item again.
hearing, everybody will again have the
opportunity to present evidence.
At that
If somebody does not speak today, they
will still have that opportunity to present
evidence at the second reading, should there be
a second reading.
So, Mayor, with that, we can begin the
process.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I just want to
make one comment, and please correct me if I am
wrong.
It's important for everyone to
understand that we sit up here as a decision-
making body, which means we can only make
decisions. The decisions we make on this issue
can only be when it's put in the record as
evidence.
So, if you have anything to say, one
way or the other, unless it's in the record as
evidence, that's all we can consider when we
make our decision. That's all we do, that is
make decisions based on evidence in the record.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That's correct,
and that evidence can be placed in the record
either today, or if there is a second reading,
at the second reading.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: All right. Thank you.
Mr. Miller?
MR. MILLER: Good afternoon, Mayor and
Council Members.
For the record, my name is Michael
Miller, with Craig Smith and Associates. I am
a consultant/town planner.
The item before us today is a request
by Greenberg, Traurig --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Is your
microphone on? Because we can't hear you.
MR. MILLER: Yes, it is on.
I wi ll get a little closer.
This is a request by an attorney firm
by the name of Greenberg, Traurig, who is
representing the contract purchaser of the 5.5
acre beachfront site.
6
We prepared a Staff Report which I hope
a ll of you were provided.
28, 1997.
It's dated August
Rather than read the entire document,
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944 -988 4
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
I'll try to summarize our analysis of this
petition and our recommendation.
7
Basically, we started off by looking at
the adopted Comprehensive Plan that we have
here in the Village.
This particular piece of property has
been designated, I guess since your first
Comprehensive Plan was crafted in 1988, in the
11 RH 11 , which is Residential High Density
category .
Recently, we just did the evaluation
and appraisal report, which we are concluding
right now, basically, and there was no change
to the land use designation on this property.
The current use of the property is, of
course, the Beach Club, which is operated by
the Bal Harbour Club.
To our knowledge , this use has existed
on this property since the early 1950's.
The current "PC" or Private Club zoning
district category, recognizes the existing use,
and that use is also consistent with your
Comprehensive Plan.
The request that is being made to the
oceanfront zoning district would also be
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
consistent with your Comprehensive Plan. So,
e ither one would be consistent.
8
I am sure that all of you know, but for
the audience, Bal Harbour Village is one of the
early Master Plan Communities in America.
was designed in the 1940's by the original
people that purchased the land here. They
It
hired a firm from St. Louis, who is one of the
gurus, if you will, in the planning field and
wrote many books on the s ub ject, and designed
the Master Plan for Bal Harbour.
The community is designed in the
traditional gradient sense, if you will, with
the highest density uses on the oceanfront,
with the lower intensity, medium density uses
along Collins Avenue.
The low-rise, multi-family and the
single fami l y is at the far western end, with
of course, the commercial at the south end.
At the north end, centrally located,
was a spine, if you will, of open space, that
went between the ocean a nd the bay.
on the bay side, we have the yacht
basin and the club there, with the wide Bal
Harbour Way medians coming straight east, and
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, F lorida 3318 1
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
9
then the Beach Club site, which was the window,
if you will, to the ocean.
Of course, the Beach Club has existed
there for many years with various types of
recreational amenities for those who wish to
join the club.
We have looked at this issue, and other
than issues that relate to site planning issues
--I guess the open space is a nice concept
there, but it could also be the highrise which
wo uld also preserve some of the open space
views through there.
It would be really a choice of the
community fathers whether you wish to allow the
zoning to occur to allow a highrise, which is
not inconsistent with your Comprehensive Plan
and will maintain the original Master Plan
design of the community, which is the open
space or some use.
I might want to mention that the "PC 11
club zoning also allows some residential uses.
They could build up to thirteen single family
homes on the property today.
If the property is rezoned to Ocean
Front, our Codes require that the project must
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(30 5) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
1 1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
10
have at least twenty-four units to the acre and
not exceeding fifty-five units to the acre, so
this would result in a project if it was
residential, to between one hundred thirty-two
units and three hundred and two dwelling units.
Looking at the concurrency aspects of
the petition, I guess we are blessed with our
location, geographically.
The roads, the water, the waste water
and salt lakes and drains are not issues or
relevant as to whether it stays the way i t is
or whether it's rezoned.
As far as the park issue goes,
currently , our village uses some c r edit of this
property towards meetin'g our open space
requirements in the Comp r ehensive Plan. It's
privately owned so we count fifty percent
credit towards the acres. so we are presently
counting 2 .75 acres of this land to meet our
open space requirement .
If it is developed as a highrise
oceanfront build ing , there will need to be
something done t o our Codes to allow them to
c o un t other areas in our community as open
space. So there is a mitigation necessary on
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami , Florida 33181
(305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
11
the parks issue.
Essentially, our recommendation came
down to what was requested, "Is it consistent
with the Comprehensive Plan," and our answer to
that was, 11 Yes, there doesn't seem to be any
concurrency issues other than the park issues."
So, it's a matter of choice really.
It's a consistent request and we recommend
approval if you wish to allow a highrise
build i ng on this property to be built.
I will be happy to answer any questions
that you have.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Did you say --
Did I get that correctly that there is a Plan,
an older Plan that calls for open space now?
MR. MILLER: The original Master Plan
for Bal Harbour Village --i n fact if you will
look at the aerial behind you, there is --you
can see there is a green spine, if you will, in
the north end of the community, which includes
the yacht club area, the wide medians of Bal
Harbour Way and then over to the Beach Club.
The idea, I guess, originally was that
the residents inland --of course, everybody
that lives there could walk right out onto the
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
12
beach and enjoy the beach --but there would
have had to be a way in the original designers'
minds to allow the people to have access to the
beach.
Now you can get there by 96th Street at
the jetty, and I guess th is was meant to be the
place where the single family residents and the
people on the left side of Collins could gain
access to the oceanfront there.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: So, what do you
do about that issue?
MR. MILLER: We are required --whoever
builds on this property is required to maintain
some type of access, even if it's a pathway to
the oceanfront.
It's a part of our Comprehensive Plan,
State law and the Regional Planning Council, as
well, and talking to the attorneys here, there
seems to be some understanding that that needs
to be accomplished here.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The second thing
is, what about the park area? What you said is
that we would be missing some open space.
MR. MILLER: Yes.
The way we adopted our Concurrency
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305} 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
1 9
20
21
22
23
2 4
25
13
Management system is, the Vi l lage adopted Dade
County's regulations on what you can count and
what you can't count as park acreage. For
whatever reason, the Dade county Ordinance says
that you can't count any beachfront sand area
to meet your open space requirement.
Now to me, living in South Florida, the
primary recreation amenity that we have here is
our beach.
So, my recommendation was to --and we
mentioned this in the Comprehensive Plan
changes also --was to amend our land
development regulations to say that we adopt
Dade County's standards, except that we are
going to count the beach area, which is
additional acreage. I think it's like thirteen
or fifteen acres or something like that. That
would pull us way over the park requirement.
I think that needs to be done no matter
what you do with this
MAYOR SPIEGEL:
questions?
Ar e there any
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No.
MA YOR SPIEGEL: Okay. All right, we go
on.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Steve, do you have some comments to
make?
MR. HELFMAN: No. The Applicants, I
believe, are prepared to put on their
presentation.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Okay.
CLIFF SCHULMAN: Mayor, can everyone
hear me? I've never been known to have a
problem with people hearing me, so if you do,
pl ease --I'm sure you will anyway.
My name is Cliff Schulman. I am an
14
attorney with offices at 1221 Brickell Avenue,
with the law firm of Greenberg, Traurig, and I
represent the Applicant here today.
I would like to introduce the
principals of AVA Development, who is the
contract purchaser of the beachfront property,
Mr. Sheldon Lippfield.
Sheldon, would you stand up?
Also, I'd like to introduce Mr. Henry
Fondraic, of Transportation Analysis
Professionals.
Henry, please raise your hand.
Bruce Charrington (phonetic), from
Vermillio Ajano, from Professional Planners.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Would you just raise your hand?
And we also have Anna Medina from
Coastal systems. Anna?
15
Mike Cannon, from Real Estate Appraisal
Economics Association. Mike?
And don't be afraid. They are not all
going to speak. They will be available for
questions after my presentation from any
members of the Council.
Members of the Council, I wanted to try
to put into perspective before my presentation,
what we are here to do today.
But, also what we are not here, at
least in our view, to do today.
Today, the issue, quite simply, is
merely the changing of a zoning classification
that would allow in the future, applications
for particular types of uses.
As your own planner indicated, we would
be changing from "PC", Private Club zoning
designation, which at the present allows a
private club, accessory uses and single family
residential, to, basically, a classification
11 0F", oceanfront, that would allow apartments,
that would allow hotels and other accessory
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
16
uses.
We are not here today, with the utmost
of candor to you all, to discuss what exactly
is the nature of the particular use that would
ultimately be on that site . That is not a
process that is before you today.
Today we are going to be talking about
a zoning classification, not a particular
building and what it would like or not look
like, whether it would be a hotel or not a
hotel. It would allow either use.
The very narrow question today is
whether or not we believe the zoning
classification on the present parcel is
presently viable, or whether or not it is
infiscatory and unreasonable and should be
changed, and whether or not each change that we
have requested is consistent, compatible and
concurrent with your Master P l an and with all
other regulations of the City. That truly is
the central issue today.
We have prepared handouts which
hopefully will help you in seeing some of the
documents that I am going to put up on this
poster board .
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
1 1
1 2
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Because my eyes are failing, I don't
know if you will be able to see them all.
17
But, if I might introduce you to the
Code and ask that those exhibits be put into
evidence, and any other exhibits that we use
during the course of this hearing, we would
appreciate if they could be marked, since as
the City Attorney did indicate to you, this is
a quasi-judicial hearing.
Is there a portable mike?
Can you hear me all right? Can you
still hear me?
Madam Mayor, please excuse my back, but
if I hold on to the microphone and also do
this, it's going to be a little bit difficult,
and I apologize to the audience who is not able
to see.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We'll show the
picture next, after we look at it.
MR. CLIFF SCHULMAN: This is the aerial
photograph that just basically puts you in
perspective to the site.
Now, of course, you are as familiar, if
not a heck of a lot more familiar than I am
with the site, but just for purposes of the
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miam i , Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
18
record, the site is 5.5 acres in size .
It bracketed on the north by the
Kenilworth. It is bracketed on the south by
the Plaza Condominium , and of course across the
way, State Road AlA, Collins Avenue, are both
the lower level apartment buildings and
eventually leading into your single family
neighborhood.
In order to try to put this into
perspective f r om a zoning point of view as to
what is consistent and compatible zoning in
this area --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER : Can we turn that
around now?
MR. CLIFF SCHULMAN: We took our little
Polaroid camera a nd took a panoram i c view of
the beautiful Village of Bal Harbour.
As you can see, and the zoning map will
confirm that in your e xhibit book, the
character of the oceanfront as Mr . Miller
testified to, has historically been b oth zoned ,
planned a n d developed as either highr ise
condominiums or hotels.
Starting a t the north with the Harbour
House, with a density of sixty-eight dwelling
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33 181
(305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
19
units per acre ; to Carlton Terrace with a
density of thirty-seven dwel l ing u n its per
acre; the Keni l worth with a density of fif t een
dwe l ling units per acr e ; Kenilworth Condo with
fifty dwelling units per acre; the Plaza a t Bal
Harbour with a density of one hundred fourteen
dwelling units per acre ; the Tiffany with a
densit y count of fifty -one dwelling units p er
acre ; Bal Harbour 101 at seventy-f i ve dwelling
u nits per acre ; the Palace , as you can see with
fifty-eight dwelling units per acre ; The Bal
Harbour Tower Condo, at for t y dwell i ng units
per acre; the seaview at forty-seven dwe l ling
units per acre ; t he Balmoral at eighty-one
dwelling units per acre; the Sheraton Bal
Harbour at eighty dwelling un i ts per acre ; and
the Majestic Towers at fifty -eight , obvious l y,
the panorama speaks for itself .
The important issues, if not the most
important issues, i n a zoning application that
is heard by a governmental agency , is wheth er
or not the Applicant has adequately shown that
t he proposed use is consistent and compatibl e
with the existing zoning uses, and a pattern of
development which has t aken place i n this
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami , Florida 3318 1
(305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
.
particular municipality.
We believe that this panorama clearly
shows what your zoning map also shows.
can you turn that around --
20
This of course is your zoning ma p of
the Village and you have a zoning
classification of "O F " oceanfront, comp letely
north of the subject parcel and "RF" all the
way down to the south boundary l ine of --n orth
boundary line , if you would --of Surfside.
That also is "RF".
This pattern of development, if you
would, is echoed in your Master Plan, with one
notable exception. That is, that in the Master
Plan which was recently re-adopted as part of
your evaluation and appraisal process, it
designates the subject parcel as "RH", which is
Residential High Density, and that is
consistent with the remaining parts of the town
and on the oceanfront.
Now a question was asked regarding the
Master Plan for the town. The Master Plan is
not really a Master P l an as you presently know
it and that you have seen it since 1986, and
now you have re-adopted it as part of your
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13 89 9 Biscayne Boulevard - Mi ami, Florida 3318 1
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21
environmental --your appraisal and evaluation
process.
Instead, the Master Plan of the Village
really was two plats that were filed for the
ocean side and plats that were filed in 1946
for the other side , the west side of AlA.
I hate to tell you this, but the
original plats of the Village called it Bay
Harbour. Luckily, you got wiser and you re-
named it. But this is the original plat of
1946 called the Village of Bay Harbour, if you
would, or the Plat of Bay Harbour Subdivision,
which was the entire oceanfront .
As you can see, all the lots were shown
and there was one lot right in the middle,
which is in fact this particular lot which
says, and I have blown it up, "Reserved for use
as a private beach club for a period of not
more than twenty years from January 1, 1945 or
for other purposes."
So at least from 1 945 to 1965, this
parcel was specifically originally designated
on the plat to be used for that purpose. But
in 1965, that ended, and therefore the property
now is capable of being used for the purpose we
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
22
intend.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER : Can I ask you
one question?
MR. CLIFF SCHULMAN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The Master Plan
you referred to in the diagram in front of this
one, what year was that done --that Master
Plan?
MR. CLIFF SCHULMAN: The Master Plan
future land use now, that you have in front of
you, which is in your packet, was originally
adopted, and Mike you'll correct me if I'm
wrong, in 1989 or 1988 and then re-adopted with
some --I don't know if you made any changes in
the --all right, well, then, it was 1988/1989.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: What about the
pictures of the condominium that you showed us?
MR. CLIFF SCHULMAN: Those are current.
Those are current as of today.
In 1977, however, you did re-adopt a
provision of your Master Plan, which is binding
on you in State law, which reads as follows:
"The 5.5 acre club facility located
between Collins and the beachfront, could be
redeveloped high 'density multi-family or hotel
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 ·
24
25
23
i n accordance with the Village Code and the
plat and zoning regulations . Redevelopment is
anticipated in the future."
In fact, in your 1997 EAR Amendments,
and I'll use the abbreviation, you did in fact
modify this somewhat.
You did say, redevelopment --it didn't
say redevelopment is anticipated in the near
future . It said, "Redevelopment may take place
at sometime in the future."
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Do you have
where that was said?
MR, CLIFF SCHULMAN: Yes. That was in
your 1988 Master Plan.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: But, I'm saying
this thing that --
MR . CLIFF SCHULMAN: Oh, yes. This is
--Mr. Miller drafted this language --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It could be
redeveloped
MR . CLIFF SCHULMAN: --and the Council
basically approved it. I believe it was in
February or March of 1997.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The language
reads, "Could be redeveloped --"
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
24
MR. CLIFF SCHULMAN: And this, finally,
is the language which was sent to the State of
Florida .
This is the language which the
Department of Community Affairs found was
consistent and that you were consistent with
state law.
Under State law, you must take all
zoning actions, or any action you take on land
development in the Village~ must be consistent
with your adopted and approved Comprehensive
Development Master Plan .
We believe that the application that we
have before you today is consistent with both
your text and the future land use map which we
s h owed you.
Now, I wanted to deal with one issue
that Mike raised, and that's the issue of
recreation and open space.
I think that all the other issues that
go into land use approvals, which we call the
Three C's, if you will, consistency,
compatibility and concurrency, are more than
adequately addressed in your own Planner's
documents.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
25
It is not my intention to call other
people to basically say that Mike is right. He
has advised you correctly. We believe we adopt
his recommendations and support them.
The only thing I wanted to focus in on
for purposes of our discussion today, is what
this parks and recreation issue really is. If
I might try to clarify it as I understand it.
Your original Comprehensive Plan qf
1988 said you will provide a certain amount of
acreage of park space and open space per
person, or per thousand people, actually in the
Village.
Yo u basically adopted the Dade county
Code of how you calculate how much acreage you
have.
That basically included in your
inventory or your bank account, if you would,
of open space, one half of a privately owned
piece of property, which is ours.
Had that definition remained the same
and had you not counted the beach, and taking
this out of your inventory and adding new
people to the Village, would have brought about
an imbalance in the amount of required open
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944 -9 884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
space.
But, instead, as part of your EAR
process, you modified your Master Plan and you
basically took into account as part of your
bank account, your inventory of the beach areas
which had been previously taken out .
Now at the present time, right at the
moment as we speak, there is an inconsistency.
Your Comprehensive Adopted Master Plan
says count the beaches. Your land use
regulations say don't, because your land use
regulations haven't caught up with your Master
Plan. But it will. The reason it will is
because it has to.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I have a
question on what you just said .
MR. CLIFF SCHULMAN: Sure.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You said our
land use regulations are different than our
Master Plan regulations?
MR. CLIFF SCHULMAN : Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: So why is one
correct over the other?
MR. CLIFF SCHULMAN: I'm so glad you
asked me that question.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 3318 1
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
2 7
Because in the state of Florida since
1985, the Growth Management Act was enacted by
the State Legislature.
The Growth Management Act said all
municipalities , not just you, every
municipality in the state of Florida has to
adopt a master plan and i t has to be reviewed
by the State a n d determined to be con sistent
with the State Plan and the Regional Plan and
t he county Plan , all t he way down t o t he
smallest city .
Once you adopt that master plan, you
are then required to adopt land use regulations
that a r e consistent with it . Those are you r
zoning ordinances. And you did, in fact, at
that point in time, con sistent with your Master
Plan in 1988, adopt land use regulat ions .
These are the land use regulat i ons we talked
about that don 't count beach es .
The 1988 land use regulation s are still
there, but your Master Plan now is di fferen t .
It says count beaches .
But t h e State law requires that you
have one year to bring your Master Plan i nto
compliance with the amendments .
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
1 8
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
28
It also recogni zed that there may be a
h iatus , a time frame, and so the question that
you asked , councilman , is, "Wh at takes
precedence," your land use regulations or the
Master Plan?
The State Statute which I put in front
of you, which is Chapter 163 .3194 in the
i talici zed provision , says --and what's above
it says it is inconsist ent .
lawyer's garbage language .
It just says it in
But then it says, "During the interim
period, when the provisions of your most
recently adopted Comprehensive Plan or element
or portion thereof, and your land development
regulations are inconsistent, the most recently
adopted Comprehensive Plan or element or
portion thereof shal l govern any act ion taken
in regard to an application for development
ordinance.
so in the inter im , the Master Plan
takes precedence over your land use regulations
and then you have an obligation to change your
land use regulations.
Now if we used your Comprehensive Plan
as the guidelin e , even removing one half of
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33 181
( 305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
29
thi s property from your bank account or your
inventory, a nd even adding additional people,
Mr. Miller's report clearly indicates you are
far in excess of the required parks and
recreation open space for the City for the
number of people here, the number of people
that this project would add, and in all candor,
the number of people that are projected for the
future of Ba l Harbour as a whole.
There is no requirement for additional
park space for this development or any further
future development of Bal Harbour based upon
your existing Comprehensive Plan .
But I wanted to make it clear, that
when you do have that inconsistency, the law
doe sn 't give you leeway. It very specifically
states that you must file the land use plan
amendment, which is in effect .
There is one other element that is
important, we th ink , in bringing to your
attention as part of consideration and that is,
what about the club. Is it rea l ly a viable,
reasonable use of property today? If it is not
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You said that
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
30
you were not going to touch on the use of
property, you were just going to go through the
zoning.
MR . CLIFF SCHULMAN: No, but as part of
the zoning, when you go to change from a "PC "
to something else, we believe we have an
obligation to show you that the present use is
not viable, as it presently is, that, in fact,
situations have changed from what existed,
perhaps in 1945 or 1946, and they don't exist
today.
In order to do that, I asked Mike
Cannon, who is a registered real estate
appraiser, and his credentials are in your book
there, to come on up and just speak to that
issue.
MR. CANNON: Thank you, Mr . Schulman.
My firm is Appraisal and Real Estate
Economics Associates, Inc., with offices in
Dadeland Towers in South Dade.
For those of you who read the Miami
Herald , I publish a column on real estate in
the Business Monday .
I report on real estate economics in
South Florida , including uses of land ,
PERS ONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
especially and particularly, the highrise
condominium market and we report all the
statistics in housing and so forth in our
reports .
31
Mr. Schulman asked us to conduct a
survey and provide expert opinion on four major
items here.
One was the economic trend of private
clubs, which we have done studies on throughout
South Florida and throughout the United stat es
for various ownerships.
Also, existing beachfront land uses
within the Village of Bal Harbour. The
economic viabil ity of uses permitted under the
current private club "PC" zoning district and
reasonable uses for the subject property .
Basically, private clubs are going
through a major demographic and economic
transition throughout the states.
There are two t ypes of clubs.
Obviously, one is the beach club and the other
is the golf club . As a third, you have a
business club, like the Bankers Club in
downtown Miami .
The private c lubs are going through
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
32
major changes from the older residents that
were members and their average age nationally
is sixty-five years of age, to the second and
third generation, which is considerably
younger, in the thirty-f ive to forty -five year
bracket.
The older club members usually like to
keep tradition. They use the facilitie s for
dining, traditionally. With the younger
people, who a r e more mobile, they have more of
a diverse use for the restaurants and other
facilities. The o lder members don't really
care about --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER : could I ask a
question?
I thought he said that the issue was
rezoning, regardless if a hotel goes up, if its
a condo, if it's whatever, it 's rezoning . So,
help me out with what we are taking about at
present.
MR. SCHULMAN: one of the criteria in a
rezoning application, is whether or not the
existing zoning classification brings a
reasonable use of the property to the
landowner. If it is not, it is
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
33
Unconstitutional to deny a change and a taking
of property, without due process of law.
What I am doing here, for purposes of
the record, and I'll try to make it as short as
possible, is, basically, having an expert tell
you what you already know, and that is that
this club and clubs like it aren't working
today. Therefore, there has to be a change.
Otherwise, the property loses its value,
Constitutionally.
MR. CANNON: I t is also difficult for
the existing clubs that haven't modernized
their facilities, both for the use of its
younger members and to attract and maintain
second and th i rd generation members, their
children and their heirs, as well as new
members that they might bring into the vicinity
and the type of level of service and
entertainment, f i tness, and children's
activities, amongst other things. Therefore,
the older clubs more or less have lost their
economic purpose as clubs, as they did say,
twenty, thirty or forty years ago.
In summary, older, especially private
beach clubs, are caught in a quagmire between
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
34
the modernization of an aging facility, the
restricted levels of new services to attract
and maintain second and third generation
members, as well as new members who are not
necessarily keen on maintaining the tradition.
The major demographic changes taking
place in the society have left private clubs
unable to exist as an economic retreat, as they
did in yesteryear.
The existing land use as Mr. Schulman
stated otherwise, along Collins Avenue on the
east side over the past twenty-five years,
2,884 highrise apartments were built in
thirteen buildings, several of which were
converted to condominiums. Previously, they
were rentals
condominiums.
and others were built as luxury
In addition to that, the Sheraton Bal
Harbour Hotel has seven hundred thirteen rooms.
The subject property, being the beach
club, is the last and only property that has
not developed consistent with adjacent land
uses under the oceanfront zoning.
Residents of these highrises are
different than the residents that are west of
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
35
Collins Avenue.
They have all of these amenity
facil i ties that a beach c l ub has within the
property boundaries of their highrise
condominiums, meaning recreation facilities.
They obviously have the beachfront and they are
really not keen on joining a beach club,
because they already have that within their
common area maintenance and ownership rights to
their condominium or the apartment use.
The subject property under the existing
zoning, as we reviewed the "PC", calls for a
maximum, as I calcu l ated it, of twelve single
family dwellings. Twelve single family units
would not be a viable use for that property for
several reasons.
It is located between the Keni l worth
and the Plaza Bal Harbour, which are fourteen-
story and eleven-story highrise buildings --an
eighteen-story highrise building, and it would
be like a canyon effect. A property on Miami
Beach was designed for something like that, but
didn 1 t work, which is the Blue Diamond and the
Green Diamond on Coll i ns Avenue. There was a
use for that at one time as single family and
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
it just didn't work on that property.
We are of the opinion that the single
family concept would not be marketable to
luxury home residential buyers . It just
36
wouldn't work out from an economic sense,
b ecause they have other choices that they could
make .
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (INAUDIBLE).
MR . CANNON: They would have other --
single family luxury home buyers would have a
cho ice for superior locations, other than the
Beach Club, even though the property could be
built for single family .
The existing facility is not an
appropriate use, in summary, due to changing
demograph ics . It is deemed unattractive to
second and third generation uses, as well as
new users.
In conclusion , the private club "PC"
zoning classification, in our professional
opinion, does not allow for the reasonable use
of the property.
It is my opinion also that the
reasonable use classification of the subject
property would be "OF" zoning district, which
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
( 305) 944 -9 884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
would permit highrise, residential or hotel
development.
I would be happy to answer any
questions.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Thank you.
Can we get to the point, please?
MR. CLIFF SCHULMAN: In summary, the
three C's we believe have been met.
37
We believe that you have testimony from
your own staff that the application before you
is consistent with your Master Plan and
compatible with the neighborhood.
We believe that all of the issues
addressed in concurrency, traffic, potable
water, sanitary sewer, solid waste, drainage
and recreational open space, have also been
me t.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Would you turn
that around?
MR. CLIFF SCHULMAN: Lastly, just to
give you an idea of what it is like to develop
property nowadays in Dade County.
If this property is developed at its
maximum potential impact of three hundred and
two residential units, or five hundred and
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Bou levard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
1 3
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
38
fifty hotel units, under present Dade County
Impact Fee Ordinances, additional monies would
come into the Dade County system for roads ,
fire and schools of between eight hundred and
twenty-six thousand and one million sixty
thousand dollars. A hotel scenario would
result in impact fees of five hundred and
seventy-three thousand dollars.
What we have not attempted to quantify
is what the Village's ad valorem tax base would
go up, with the property being changed from
"PC" to either a hotel or apartment use, but we
believe that would be a substantial tax revenue
to the Village, in addition to the impact fees
to the County.
We, therefore, respectfully request the
Council to consider favorably the change on
first reading from "PC" to "OF", based on
consistency, compatibility and concurrency.
Thank you.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Thank you, Mr.
Schulman.
Are there any questions?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
question.
I have a
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
2 5
What does D mean under Traffic, where
it says Traffic, and you put D
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Yes, what is the D?
What does that signify?
UNIDENT I FIED SPEAKER: Death by
traff i c.
MR. CLIFF SCHULMAN: D means leve l of
service
39
I'm sorry, Madam Mayor, I shouldn't be
answering that question unless you direct me to
do so.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Please do.
MR. CLIFF SCHULMAN: D means the level
of service which i s the adopted level of
service for traffic in Bal Harbour, which is
the level of service D, as in David. It goes
from A to E. The Village has adopted level of
service D within the municipal boundaries.
That's the same basic level of service
i n Dade County, as a whole.
UN I DENT I FIED SPEAKER: was there a
traffic study done or is that based on --
MR. CLIFF SCHULMAN: This is i n your
Master Plan. It's in your Comprehens i ve
Development Master Plan as level of service D.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miam i , Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
40
If you read your Master Plan's policy
and let me just show this to you and I'll show
i t to the Council, this is from your Master
Plan.
"The established level of service
standard for all roadways and collectors in the
Village of Bal Harbour shall be level of
service D.11
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Where are we
going, Mayor?
MAYOR SPIEGEL: We 're just listening.
UNIDENTI FIED SPEAKER: But, it's
certainly appropriate if you want to direct
questions. I just want to make sure for the
record that we know who is asking the question,
and that their name is in the record and their
address is also in the record.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Whoever --you have to
come up to the podium and give your name and
address.
Do you have --is there anything else
Mr. Schulman?
MR. CLIFF SCHULMAN: No, Ma'am.
We're available for any questions that
the Council may have.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you.
Okay. At this point --
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Before the audience
begins
41
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes. Before we
begin the presentations by the opposition or
other public comment, I believe there was one
more question from the Council.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I just wanted to
ask --I'm sorry, I forget your name.
MR. SCHULMAN: Mr. Schulman.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Mr. Cannon?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I just have one
question, because at first it was starting out
that it's not --it's just a zoning issue and
then we get to the use of the property.
And then you went into how the club is
losing money.
I just want to know for the record, are
you saying that if they opened up a whole new
membership policy, and if they came up with a
new structure and tried to get the beach club
running to making money, that they would not go
for the rezoning?
MR. CANNON: One, I did not say that
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
they were losing money, because we didn't
review any of the financials of the club.
42
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: But I thought
you just said that the club's not making money.
MR. CANNON: What I did say is, the
c l ubs are losing their memberships, not only
here but nationally because of changing
demographics.
If you remodeled the club and you
marketed it, you would probably still not get
the second or third generation numbers that
would
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We don't have
any numbers. We are not being presented with
any numbers to show --not even the club's
actual numbers?
MR. CANNON: No. I don't have that
information, sir. But, this is a national
trend, statistically, that just shows us
changi ng attitudes. You know, you drive a car
and not a horse .and buggy --
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Can we go ahead with
the audience?
Turn the microphone toward you, please,
and give us your name and address.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
43
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Can you hear me?
MAYOR SPIEGEL : Yes.
MAX LEBOW: Fine. Good afternoon,
Madam Mayor and members of the Council.
My name is Max Lebow. I'm the resident
president of the Carlton Terrace.
What I hear here
MAYOR SPIEGEL : Say your address
please.
MAX LEBOW: 10245 Collins Avenue, Bal
Harbour, Florida 33154 .
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Thank you.
MAX LE BOW: What I hear today scares
me .
I have lived in Bal Harbour for a long
time --and I'm sorry I only have three
minutes.
I hear the word hotel --
According to "OF " zoning, and I read it
very thoroughly , correct me if I'm wrong, if we
pass this zoning, we give the developer carte
blanche to build a hotel up to five hundred and
fifty rooms and/or a condo up to three hundred
and twenty apartments.
What are we going to do with the
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
44
traffic? The traffic is so bad now that in
season we can't tolerate it. We have to go
from the Carlton Terrace around underneath the
bridge
MAYOR SPIEGEL : Are you timing this?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER : Yes.
MR . LEBOW : --exit on Collins Avenue
on the west side, and i t's worth your life to
try to get over to the north s i de. I already
have gone down to 96th Street and gone around
to come north.
Do we have a comprehensive traffic
survey? I haven't seen it. I'd like to see
it in the event that they put a hotel up there ,
a nd I think the way they are ta lking , they
intend t o put a hotel up there .
What about the water, what about the
sewer? The sewer is now backed up wh en we have
a heavy rain . Wi th the water, the pressure is
not too good n ow.
How about Florida Power & Light? Do
you have anything from any of them telling u s
that this is viable? I don't see it. I don't
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Thank you Mr. Lebow .
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Bo u levard -Miami, Florida 33 1 81
(305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Perhaps Mr. Miller can respond to that?
(Applause .)
45
MR. MILLER : The Staff Report that I --
UNIDENTI FIED SPEAKER: Before you
start, make a concerted effort to speak
directly into the mike.
MR. MILLER: The Staf f Report that I
prepared had an analysis of all of the items,
the roads, the waters, sewer, parks, solid
waste and drainage .
All of those items were addressed in
our Staff Report, and according to the
standards that this Village has adopted with
the rezoning of this property , there would not
be a problem with any of those items .
I know there are personal feelings,
whether you feel there are too many cars on the
road, but according to engineering standards,
everything is fine.
MAYOR SPIEGEL : There would be no
impact?
Miller?
MR. MILLER: Of course, of course.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Any questions for Mr.
MR. WEINSTEIN: Right here.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33 181
( 305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Yes. Do you have a
question for Mr. Miller?
MR. WEINSTEIN: Yes, I do.
46
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Please stand, come to
the podium and announce your name and address.
MR. WEINSTEIN: My name is Joel
Weinstein.
Bal Harbour.
I live at 10185 Collins Avenue in
First, the quest i on I have for Mr.
Miller is, whether Mr. Miller works for the
builders or he works for the Town of Bal
Harbour.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Mr. Mi ller, do you want
to respond?
MR. MILLER: I'm employed by the
Village of Bal Harbour and I don't work for any
developers.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Do you have another
question?
MR. WEINSTEIN: I have a couple of
questions .
I was k i nd of surprised that Mr. Mil l er
recommended to build.
If he took a look at some of the people
that are here and heard some of their opinions,
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
1 9
20
21
22
23
24
25
47
and if he did work for the Town of Bal Harbour ,
wh ich if I was the Town of Bal Harbou r, I would
immediately dismiss Mr. Miller, because he's
not working for the people of Bal Harbour .
(Applause .)
MR. WEINSTEIN : Secondly, the prope rty
was bought subject to existing conditions .
I bought property before and if I
wanted to change the zoning, I bought it
subject to the c h ange of zonin g b efore I passed
papers .
If these people bought it subject to
the existing conditions, let them improve the
clu b that's there now. We don't wa n t any
highrise apartments there, and we don 't want
the traffic .
These reports t hat the people gave you
--it's a bunch of baloney .
If fact, if you get people in there
that are eng i neers and know what they are
doing, they 'll come back with reports that will
be a littl e different than wh at these people
want to sell you a bill of good s .
In my opinion , we are going to ruin Bal
Harbour . I 'm all for keeping Bal Harbou r t h e
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
48
way it is right now.
If they want to change it, they're
going to have to buy and they are going to have
to pay the price they paid. If they paid a
lot of money, let them eat it. I ate
properties when I made mistakes. Let them eat
it.
(Applause.)
MAYOR SPIEGEL : Thank you very much .
Does anyone --Sandy? Do you have a question
for Mr . Miller or just for the general publ i c?
MS. HIRSCH: Just for the general
public.
My name is Sandy Hirsch. I live at
10205 Collins Avenue in Bal Harbour.
I'd like to respond to a few statements
that were made here earlier.
First of all, I was privileged to know
the family that donated that property to Bal
Harbour. They never wanted that to be anything
but a private club.
The fact that the gentleman said that
clubs were going out, we all know here that
clubs have been restricted for many, many, many
years. It just was opened up recently.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
49
I, personally, have three or four
hundred people that are ready to join the club
and that want to keep i t as a club. It's the
only one piece of open air property that we
have in Bal Harbour. With the pollution, as
mentioned, I'm not going to repeat the car --
Now, God forbid, what about a
hurricane? we are known for the hurricanes
here. How are the people in this new building
down at the end, the Majestic Towers, when
those cars aren't even on the road as yet, on
our property --on our Bal Harbour Village,
which I love dearly. What will happen? How
will people be able to go and leave Bal Harbour
in the event of an emergency? How will we be
able to do that? They won't be able to leave.
Now if you look around this room,
council and Madam Mayor, I'm sorry, you will
find a lot of citizens who really have deep
concern. They voted for this Council, and they
really hope that the Council will respect their
wishes. That's all I have to say.
(Applause.)
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Is there anyone else
that has any comments?
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
50
MR. CLANCEY: Good afternoon. My name
is Sean Clancey.
in Bal Harbour.
I live at 211 Balcross Drive
I am the president of the Bal Harbour
Civic Association.
At our last meeting, we discussed this
issue as it has been proposed, and we at the
Association have voted unanimously against the
adoption of any kind of zoning change on this
property.
Even though we are on the residential
side, I think we don't look at the whole thing
when we are just talking about the ocean.
If indeed this oceanfront property
disappears as a club, does that mean that the
ent i re club will then move into our district?
Will that become the main club? Will there be
any club at all? If there i s a club, is that
property going to be developed commercially?
There are a lot of questions that need
to be answered, and I think just to vote purely
on granting these people oceanfront zoning is
the cart before the horse.
We need to have some kind of
comprehensive plan from them as to what they
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
51
plan to do with this property.
Many of us who are here now, were here
just months ago when there was a proposal --a
"workshop session," whereby a five hundred foot
building was proposed for this piece of
property.
So, is it going to be a basic building?
Is it going to be two buildings? Is it going
to be a hotel? Is it going to be a five
hundred foot building? What are their plans?
We as a Vi llage cannot vote on such an
issue of such importance, without knowing what
their plans are, and it's incumbent upon you as
Council people to take this into consideration.
The vast majority of the people who are
here, are interested in the good welfare of the
Village.
There are many people here who are
visitors invited by a developer who --they
have no ties to the Village. We are here. We
are raising our families here and we are trying
to make a stake in this village . We are not
here just for pure profit. We are here to
enjoy the livelihood and the good name of Bal
Harbour. We do not want this thing to happen.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
1 5
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
52
So it is incumbent, as I said, upon you
guys to look at this issue, realize that there
are very many things that are tied to this
application, and at the present time, we don't
have the answers. In absence of the answers,
we must vote no at this point.
(Applause.)
MAYOR SPIEGEL: At our last meeting --
I'll address this to Mr. Schulman --at our
last meeting there was another attorney
present. His name was very similar to yours.
MR. CLIFF SCHULMAN: Mr. Shubin.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Mr. Shubin.
MR. CLIFF SCHULMAN: But I am a lot
better looking, Madam Mayor. But his name is
John Shubin.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: John Shubin, and there
was some conversation as to resolving the
conflict that occurred between the residents in
the residential section, as Sean stated, and
the rest of us.
mike.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Speak into the
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Can you all hear me?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Madam Mayor --
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
53
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Do you want me to
repeat that? Would you like me to repeat what
I asked him?
I said, at the last meeting, Mr.
Schulman addressed this Council and the
audience. We had another attorney present, by
the name of Mr. Shubin, who represented the
residents of the Village on the west side,
private homes. They said that they were going
to get together and try to resolve any
conflicts that the residents had between them.
I don't see Mr. Shubin here. so,
what's been resolved?
MR. RUDOLPH: Madam Mayor, my name is
Doug Rudolph, 212 Balbay Drive.
I represent a large group of homeowners
and Mr. Shubin represents us as counsel.
think there mi ght be a little bit of a
I
misunderstanding as to what your recollection
is about what happened.
My understanding was that Mr. Shubin
had a number of things that he wanted to
research and read into the record. Mr. Shubin,
unfortunately --and respectfully requested
from Mr. Schulman and the people he represents,
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
1 5
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
t hat t h ey give him more t ime to do that. I
believe it was continued until today .
54
Mr . Shu bin, u n fortunately, called me a
little while ago . He's in Los Angeles and
today, was unable t o be h ere, something he
cou ld not c h ange .
We have been a dvised by the City
Att orney 's Office t hat s h ould this proceeding
move forward to another proceeding down the
road, that Mr . Shubin wil l have full and ample
opportunity to enter into the record ,
everything that he feels is necessar y to give
the Cou ncil the platforms that they need to
support our position, which has been very clear
sin ce day o n e .
It had nothing to do with anythi n g
other t h an that . so, I think that t he
confusion may be that perhaps before , as Mr .
Clancey alluded to, there were going to be a
number of workshop sessions that never occurred
with the citizens that I know of , inside the
Village. That never hap pened .
I think that's where the
misu nderstanding came about. I apologize o n
Mr . Shubin 's behalf , but he has assured me that
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
1 389 9 Biscayne Boul evard -Miami , Florida 33 1 81
(305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
55
he will have his full day in court --I didn't
mean to say that I mean before the Council .
So, that's where we stand.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: City Attorney,
can I ask a question?
MR . WEISS : Sure .
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER : If in fact this
is all based on evidence, and Mr. Rudolph j ust
said we 're not getting half our evidence
tonight, then how can we possibly make a
decision tonight? Don't we need the evidence?
If he's out of town, then we need to put this
off unt il --
MR. RUDOLPH : Well, I can assure you
that Mr . Shubin, on behalf of all of us, I
don't think would have any problem if everybody
wants more time, so that more comprehen sive
things
In fact, all the wonderful points that
are being made here today by all the c i tizens
who --that comes from the heart . I know that
a l ot of things need to come from t h e legal
books .
I know that Mr . Sh ubin did n o t want t o
come forward today --because he could not be
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevar d -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
56
here --and ask all of these people who have
put aside many things to come here because it's
so important to them, could we continue thi s
another time.
So we were willing to deal with the
situation as it occurred and play with the ball
on the court as it was.
But if the Council, in its discretion,
feels that they want to continue this and the
people want to --and, again , we don't want to
inconvenience anybody. But if that's what
everybody wa nts , far be it from us to say that
that couldn't happen.
(Applause.)
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Could I ask the
City Attorney what are the ramifications,
because I feel that we are not gett ing al l the
evidence tonight, with Mr. Shubin not being in
town and Mr. Rudolph mentioning that Mr. Shubin
has a good deal of evidence to present.
What are the ramifications to ask that
we postpone it for a month?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You can
certainly --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: From the
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
138 99 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Counc il , that they postponed last time .
how about if we just
So,
57
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER : I think that if
a request is being made, or if it is the desire
of this Council for a reasonable continuance in
terms of time --a nd I don't know whether the
Applicant is in agreement with a continuance --
and I feel very badl y for all of these people
that came today and have things that they want
to say .
So I'm not trying to --our group is
not trying to steer the ship, by any stretch of
the imagination . It's really up to, I feel,
the Council and the Applicant as to what they
want to do about i t.
We are will i ng to go in any direction
that you all feel is appr opriate .
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER : You can either
proceed today and vote on this matter --this
is a public hearing . It's been noticed and
everybody who wants to speak certainly has the
opportun ity t o do that .
Or, you could continue this for some
short period of time, and certainly with the
concurrence of the Applicant. I don't think
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 3318 1
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
58
that there is any problem at all. But I don't
know what their position is on that.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Mr. Schulman?
MR. CLIFF SCHULMAN: Madam Mayor and
members of the Council.
Preferably, since two hearings are
mandatory in this matter because it's an
Ordinance, and no action that you would take
if for example you chose to approve, based
on the evidence which has been presented by our
professionals and your own staff --
For example, if you chose to approve
this today, we could again, a second reading
would be mandatory, at which time any and all
evidence would still be allowed, both our own
and Mr. Shubin's.
With the utmost respect to Mr. Shubin,
I understand that we could agree to allow him a
continuance, and today I don't want to be
looked at as if I 'm dallying --we do have our
people here. I would hate to lose another
month. Because if you do continue it, that
means that you are going to have two more
hearings, rather than --
If you move it forward and vote it up
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
1 3899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
59
today, you're not --I hate to say this --
hopefully, ultimately you will approve it . But
nothing t hat you're doing, your own council
would say, would preclude you from any other
vote at the second reading. That would be our
preference.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER : What if they
voted against it?
MR . SCHULMAN: If they voted against
it, I'm in court . See you in court. You
know, that's where we are.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Mr . Attorney --
(Applause.)
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I just want to
make sure that I'm following our Code . Would
it be l egally appropr i ate --is it following
the Code if I make a motion that we postpone
this for one month?
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Or a continuance .
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Or a
continuance?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER : I think that a
motion for continuance is in order and I think
that a month period of time would be a
reasonable period of time . I f --now, I don't
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
60
know whether that's --
Mr . Schulman indicated that although he
preferred the item be voted on, I don't think
that they had a strong opposition to a
continuance . Is a month in any --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER : Well, the
problem is that we are coming up on
Thanksgiving, and I 'm going to be out of the
country.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER : For that area in
November --and if we go forward --
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Can we have half a
month --can we do it in two weeks?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER : I am leaving
before that, and leaving for that period of
time.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER : Do you have any
other type of Council?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
this matter, the law firm .
I'd be it on
I could try to arrange my schedule. If
you want to go forward on first reading, at
that point fine . But the second reading, I
guess then we are into December .
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Okay, so what
P ERS ONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
1 1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
61
you are saying is that November, you would not
mind if that 's the first reading, to move i t
thirty days to November?
UNIDENTIFIE D SPEAKER : We l l, we may be
in the same conundrum. I don't know .
MAYOR SPIEGEL : Well, if we h ave both
sides, the attorney that represents the
residents of the Vi llage , a n d perhaps t h at same
attorney will also try to meet with the
residents on the west side, and let 's try and
get everybody in one group to see what we can
do and then go o n.
But I don 't think o n e month would
certainly do much harm, and then we still have
t he second reading . We could do t h a t a n d ask
for a continuance .
(Applause .)
MR . CLANCY :
somethi ng again.
If I could just say
There are a lot of people h ere who were
here at the last meeting , too . Perhaps you
could just table your motion for a few mi n utes
and let a few other people speak their piece --
MAYOR SPI EGEL : Fine. Sure .
MR . CLANCY : on the issues , because
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, F l orida 33 1 81
(30 5 ) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
62
I think it's important that they air their
feelings on it.
If I might wear another hat so I can
buy three more minutes? I'm going to speak as
Sean Clancy resident, rather than President of
the Bal Harbour civic Association.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Fine.
MR. CLANCY: Well, I'll just take
three.
I moved into the Village eleven years
ago. The first thing I noticed whenever I
spoke with someone who was a resident of Bal
Harbour, they would always tell me how long
they've lived in the Village.
Sheldon Lippman sitting there, has
lived in the Village longer than anybody, fifty
years.
One thing I've known from the Village
is how important the zoning has been for the
good and welfare of the Village of Bal Harbor.
That's why most of us live here. It's a
beautiful community. It's beautiful because
you have kept the zoning very strict.
Th i s is an unusual occurrence.
Even though this property sits on the
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 9 4 4-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
63
ocean, it's a private club. It's not --it
wasn't a hotel, it wasn't a condo that's been
knocked down . It's always been a private club ,
and that green piece of land goes from the
ocean to the bay, as Mr . Miller stated.
That was done for a reason. That piece
of property was not the Singapore Hotel, where
it goes at a n angle. It was built specifically
for that reason . It should be kept that way .
It should not be let to be developed in this
manner .
or, if even the thought of developing
it ever came about, what is the plan? Again, I
aro reiterating what I said before . But that's
very, very important to us as resident s . And
believe me, we feel very, very strongly that
it's very important that you guys examine this
properly. Don 't make a judgment because
someone says, "We'll see you in court ." That's
a slap in the face.
I mean, listen, we have attorneys , too.
These people that are here are willing to pay
for the legal fees as residents, if that's what
it takes . Don't be intimidated by people who
say, "We'll see you in court".
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
1 3 899 Bi scayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
( 305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
1 4
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
64
(Applause.)
MAYOR SPIEGEL : Thank you, very mu ch.
I stil l have the feeling that was l eft
with me a month ago, that Mr . Shubin and Mr.
Schulman were going to get together with t he
residents on the west side in private homes and
resolve the problem. T heir main prob l em was
the yacht club situation .
Now, I would like to see that same
attorney or another attorney that the residents
on the east side would get in t ouch with and
speak to Mr . Schulman, or he will speak for the
deve loper, and assure people that whatever they
do will not adversely impact all of the
residents , not just a few here and a few there .
We need to know just where we're go ing.
Now, we haven't heard anything today
that is going to tel l us where we are going .
except, advise us to pass t his on the firs t
reading and then wait unt il we set up a meeting
for the second reading. But, where are we with
this fi r st reading? We don't have the
information that we need.
I would like the rest of the Cou ncil to
give me their feel ings.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
1 3899 Bis cayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 3318 1
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
65
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER : F i rst, I wo u ld
like to have more of the public speak, if they
would like to . There are hundreds of people
here, and we have heard from five people.
Who would like to speak? Raise your
ha n d and let's hear from you , please.
MS . SCHELL: Marjorie Schell, 9801
Collins Avenue, Penthouse 17, Balmoral .
I'm concerned about the heigh t of the
building . Nothing has been said . The sun
would be taken away . A five hundred plus
building would be too high for our Village .
We do have the new building . It 's a
big structure there . They are putting up two
of those . I t hink we have twenty -o n e or
twenty-two stories in my building, and I t hink
the Tower is twenty-six or twen ty-seven.
high, like Manhattan .
It's
Nothing has been said about what they
plan to do. How can you vote on something when
you don't know what you are voting on?
MAYOR SPIEGEL : We are not actually
voting on what will be built .
MS . SCHELL : But , that's wh at we want
to k n ow, though.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
( 3 05) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
1 5
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MAYOR SPIEGEL : Yes . But, the only
vote today , whether it 's yes, no or postpone,
is in reference to zoning. It has nothing to
do wit h the building .
66
MS. SCHELL: We put i t off a month ago.
I came to a meeting a month ago that was
postponed.
MAYOR SPIEGEL : Right --
MS. SCHELL: So we have already done
them the courtesy. They can give us a little
bit of time, surely.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Well, at this point,
we're not hearing from the attorney that is
supposed to be representing the residents.
MS. SCHELL: If we don 't know where
we 're going, there is no sense taking the trip,
is there?
MR. HIRSCHL: If I could make another
comment.
Mrs. Schell , your points are valid , but
today's reading and the subsequent reading that
will take place ostensibly about this, or maybe
two meetings if it's deferred --this meeting
is about changing from "PC" to oceanfront only.
These are very fine attorneys that the
P ERSONAL TOU CH REP ORT ING , I NC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
1 3
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
67
developer has hired . You all must understand
that a record must be developed, whether you
are in favor of development or against
development .
Don't d iscuss what type o f building is
going to be going up . Let 's discuss do you
want it a private club, or do you want it zoned
oceanfront.
This is the information that this
Council needs to hear . This is what this
Council needs to know about . This is what this
Council will base their vote upon.
What Mr. Schulman and his associates
present, and what the citizens of Bal Harbour
and people who represent attorneys privately or
in a group, whatever it may be, the record must
be developed about zoning .
That's what we want to hear about today
and i n subsequent meetings, so we all can make
the right decision for our residents.
So , please, I'm happy to hear from you,
as the rest of the Council is, but let's try to
focus on the zoning issu es on why you think
this should be zoned oceanfront highrise, or it
shou l d not be zoned oceanfront highrise . only .
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(30 5) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MS. SCHELL: You cleared it up, I
think, for everybody.
68
MR. HIRSCHL: It's very important that
you all understand --
MS. SCHELL: I d id not understand the
specific question.
MR. HIRSCHL: The laws are very
specific how we have to vote. We are not
talking about an eighty story building, a
twenty story hotel, a drive-thru bowling alley.
We are not talking about anything except
rezoning the property.
So, again, the law is very specific for
your protection and ours. Talk about the
oceanfront zoning change. If there are things
that have merit, we want to know about it.
Thank you.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Thank you, very much.
Yes? Please come up.
Announce your name and address, please.
MS. THOMPSON: My name is Patricia
Thompson. I am president of the Association
for The Plaza of Bal Harbour.
Andy, I hear you loud and clear, and
I'll tell you if you will provide me with a
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
69
list of all the residents, I personally will go
out with a poll and bring you back numbers of
those who want "PC" and those who don't.
P r ovide me with the necessary implement and
I'll get you i n black and white, what you
apparently don't know, even though all these
people have come to say no. I don't see any
people here who are saying, "Yes, yes, let's
give it to the club."
MR. HIRSCHL: You know, Pat, I
hate to interrupt you and I'm not please
understand I sit here as an employee of you
all. I want you to understand
MS. THOMPSON: I'm not attacking you,
Andy --
MR. HIRSCHL: No, no, no, no, no.
MS. THOMPSON: I'll get you all the
figures.
MR. HIRSCHL: If you tell me that two
thousand peop l e want a club and one thousand
people want a highrise, that is not creating a
record to vote upon. We need information.
MS. THOMPSON: We will give you the
information so that you remember who lives
here. Okay?
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MR. HIRSCHL: I think that's good.
MS. THOMPSON: If you want those
numbers, I'll give them to you.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: The gentleman in the
back, please.
MR. WARD: My name is Glen Ward. I
live at
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Bring the mike up to
your stature.
MR. WARD: Thank you very much.
My name is Glen Ward. I live at 251
Balbay.
I have mixed feelings on the entire
thing. I am also a club member.
70
Our biggest problem with that --and I
am a past president over there. our biggest
problem is, as Andy threw out, two thousand
people wanting to belong to the club. That has
not happened.
Our taxes are i n such a situation, that
piece of property cannot be used as a club
anymore. That's just a flat fact of life.
I mean, I would like to figure out a
way to keep it . I have even talked to Andy
about the marina, trying to get the Village to
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
71
buy it or do something like that. I do not
want to see the marina disappear, personally.
But you can't say you can't build
something when it won't work. Let me tell you,
we have tried every recruiting that there is ,
at least when I was in there. I haven't been
the past president now for quite a few years,
but it just didn't work.
Now, I don't know what you want to do
with it. If you say you have got to have a
private club, the only catch is, there isn't
enough money to pay the dues, to pay the taxes
or to pay anything else, and that's a problem.
That's a big problem.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The club wasn't
open to everybody. That's a big problem --
MR. WARD: Let me tell you, I cannot
you know, you are right.
Now, what would you like me to do about
going forward? I can't do a damn thing about
it. It has never been closed and I never no
voted on anything I did personally, and he
tried to sell the club.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: As a club?
MR. WARD: As a clubhouse. Just sell
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
1 4
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
72
it for the price, I believe we had two or three
different peop l e. I was not in on the
negotiations of that part. We had two to three
different people attempting to buy.
The only viable way to buy that and pay
the taxes appears to be either a condo or
hotel-type situation, but that's all I know.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The only reason
I ask you that is, it just seems that a lot of
people are speaking about the club, but don't
know the financial records. I know this
gentleman spoke about what clubs are like and
the trends of clubs, but he didn't provide us
with any statistics.
(SEVERAL PERSONS SPEAKING AT THE SAME TIME.)
MR . WARD : To top it off, to talk about
the finances , I signed every check for a couple
of years and let me tell you, we borrowed money
and we had assessments. Assessments is what
caused the club to go into what it is now.
I don 't know how to do that. If
anybody knows how to make a business work
without enough revenue, I'd like to hear it,
because I just don't know how to do it . Even
this business raises taxes if it needs more
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Bi scayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
( 305) 944 -9 884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
money. And you can't do it without enough
money, and that's all.
73
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you, Glen.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Thank you very much.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: This guy over in
the back --all the way in the back, Estelle.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Where?
UNIDENTIF IED SPEAKER: Way in the back,
with the green and white shirt. He's standing.
He wants to --I don't know who he is.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Yes, sir? The man at
the rear of the room.
We'll get to you next, sir.
you next.
I'll call
MR. (INAUDIBLE): My name is Tom/Don
( INAUDIBLE) . I live at (INAUDIBLE) _185
Collins Avenue.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Thank you.
MR. (INAUDIBLE): I'm only here to say
two words.
The gentleman who tells you that the
club cannot work, that he took surveys all over
the country, they are full of baloney, because
this club here could be the most successful
club if they offered membership, if they
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
honored rights as beach club, tennis club,
catering --big business, the biggest club in
South Florida, in Bal Harbour. (I NAUDIBLE)
It's a shame.
(APPLAUSE.)
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Thank you.
74
Yes, sir? That gentleman right there.
MR. SPIEGEL: My name is Fred Spiegel.
I have been living at The Plaza for about
twenty-five years.
I have an apartment that faces the
club, and I think that I am a rea list. I
don't like an apartment there. I would like a
hotel or I would like a condo, but, where are
we going to get the thirty-five or forty
million to pay for this piece of property?
These people want to sell it and they are
entitled to sell it.
I think that they should have a right,
well, to build a condo. I would not like to
see a hotel there, but if they want to build a
condo there, I'm for it. In reality, there are
other condos there and I have no problem with
the traffic. I don't see any problem with the
water --I'll have trouble getting home --
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
75
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Please let him speak.
MR. SPEIGEL: May I also say, Madam
Mayor, I don't think that this crowd represents
all of Bal Harbour. There are people here from
our building, from (INAUDIBLE) and some others
who live near the club area who their homes may
be disturbed a little, but I don't know.
But, generally, I think that a condo,
or whatever --not a hotel, but a condo could
be built there.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Thank you.
Yes, sir?
MR. CAMISSO (Phonetic): My name is Jim
Camisso, 10150 Collins Avenue. I am also an
officer of the Bal Harbour Club and I would
like to follow up that gentleman's very
perceptive comments with just a couple of
comments of my own.
Number one, every conceivable economic
analysis was done with internal and external
consultants looking at the economics and
viability of the Bal Harbour Club, and the
conclusions mentioned by Glen Ward are
certainly in order.
I would just make this point to the
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Flor ida 33181
(305) 944 -9 884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
76
Council. It's obvious that in most hearings,
those who show up are those who are opposed,
and I hope you are not getting the feeling that
the census of this town is in favor of not
allowing the rezoning.
I will tell you this; that over a
hundred members of the Bal Harbour Club who are
also residents of this town, the majority have
voted for the sale of the club and would like
to see this zoning approved.
Thank you.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Thank you very much,
sir.
Dina?
MS. CELLINI: Dina Cellini, 211
Balcross Drive.
This is a very emotional issue and I
have been accused of being very emotional
sometimes. So I am going to try to stay calm.
First of all, I'd like to ask the
Village Attorney: Has the issue of whether or
not a referendum would be in order here ever
been addressed? I'd like to see the voters go
out and let you all know what the majority of
us want.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
77
(Applause.)
MS. CELLINI: Is that viable? Is that
legal?
MR. WEISS: We don't --there is a
specific provision in the State law that
provides that referendums on quasi-judicial
matters like this are not appropriate and
legal. I'm sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Not appropriate
or not legal?
MR. WEISS: Are not legal.
MS. CELLINI: Would we be violating
State law if we proposed it as a referendum?
MR. WEISS: Until that provision is
probably overturned, that statutory provision,
we think is controlling.
MS. CELLINI: With all due respect,
that opinion also comes from the same legal
authorities that felt that it was appropriate
to pass the Comprehensive Village Plan that has
us in the predicament that we're in right now.
That's just an aside. I'd like
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: If I may
respond, because I don't quite understand your
point. You are saying that --
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
78
MS. CELLINI: My point is that back in
March, a Comprehensive Plan was adopted whereby
all of this verbiage was placed in our
Comprehensive Plan really without us knowing
what the ramifications would be for the future
of our city. Now we're told that the open
spaces, in order to satisfy Dade County
standards or to satisfy State law, they have to
be changed, thereby eliminating some of the
open space that we now enjoy and requiring that
the beachfront be included in our open space
plan.
So my only point i s that I think we
need to look carefully at what the residents of
Bal Harbour want. I think that the elections
in April and the landslide with which many of
the Council people were elected should let you
know that the majority of Bal Harbour residents
are not in favor of development and that it's
incumbent on the Village Attorney to try to
give us an avenue to let our feelings be heard
in a way that is likely to lead us to get what
we are looking for, which is no development
here.
Our hands are kind of tied now because
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
we are limited to what we are going to put in
evidence in this record, and of course, the
Council is somewhat intimidated by the threat
of a lawsuit.
79
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No, they're not.
MS. CELLINI: No? I'm glad to hear
that.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: We are not intimidated
at all.
MS. CELLINI: Okay. I'm glad to hear
that because most of the time when people say,
"I'll see you in court," people cower away. So
I'm glad to know that our five representatives
don't
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We hear that
every month.
MS. CELLINI: Good. Okay.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Every month some
other special interest --don't worry about it.
MS. CELLINI: I think that our presence
here lets you know that we'll do whatever we
have to do to support you, if that's how you
decide to vote.
I'd also like to say that with regard
to the burden that I believe Mr. Schulman has
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
80
said is on the developer to show that the
property is no longer viable as a private club,
I really don't feel they have met that burden.
I'm not speaking with a legal authority, but
just as a lay person right now. I think short
of sending out a Village-wide questionnaire and
asking people would you join a private club
under such and such a criteria, I don't think
that this gentleman here can talk about
national standards and tell us that a private
club would not be successful at 10205 --or
whatever the address is --Collins Avenue.
Maybe what we need to do, and I'll be
glad to spearhead that, is to get a petition
together and have people sign and say, "Yes, I
would be willing to join a private club there,"
and let you see how many people would join.
That's all. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Yes?
MS. SCHAFFER (Phonetic): My name is
Mary Schaffer. I live at the Plaza.
I just want to make one statement. One
statement.
I think the reason that the town is
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, F l orida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
81
very upset about what's going to be put there,
is we've all gotten a pretty bad snake bite
from that Majestic building. It kind of took
us --It kind of frightened us as to what's
going to be zoned n ext and that's the reason
you're getting such opposition.
Thank you.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Wasn't the Majestic
built according to the Code?
The Majestic building, as I understand
and recollect, was built according to Code.
It's no taller than what is allowed and met all
the requirements for setbacks.
It's in the Code.
Yes, sir?
MR. ZIEFER: Good afternoon, Mayor and
Council. My name is Sam Ziefer.
resident of 187 Balcross Drive.
I'm a new
Now, five years ago, I came into Bal
Harbour looking to buy with my wife, and one of
the prerequisites I had was, I'd like to see
the club. Well, we tried for over a period of
a month and we could never get into the club to
see the club. I said to my wife, "Then there
is no way I'm buying, if I can't get go in to
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 3318 1
(305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
82
see the club."
Things have changed over a period of
time, now I am a resident, just recently
purchased, and we did go see the club. If you
compare the club to other clubs up the coast,
you will notice that the club is not populated,
the club is rundown, and it very well may be
not a viable club today.
But unfortunately, it is a situation
that has occurred over a period of years
through their neglect in not reinvesting into
the club, because there are other clubs up the
coast, such as Turnberry Club in North Miami,
there's the Boca Beach Club in Boca, and if you
compare those to this club, you'll see this one
is quite lacking. They have not reinvested
over the period of time, and if they did decide
to do it, it would be a thriving, flourishing
club where people would be looking to be
members of it and it would be successful.
name?
Thank you.
(Applause.)
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: What is his
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Mr. Zelder? What is
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
----·-----
83
your name again?
MR. ZIEFER: Sam Ziefer, Z-i-e-f-e-r.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Ziefer.
MR. CASTILLANO: My name is Bill
Castillano. I live at 138 (INAUDIBLE).
It's kind of interesting how two
different people can look at the same property
and think differently.
I have lived in Bal Harbour for the
last twelve years, and I love that club. I
love the club just the way it is. The club
was built that way, as a simple club where you
could bring your children to. You could enjoy
the beach, you could enjoy the sunshine and
enjoy your neighbors.
The last thing I would like to see is
that club go away. But, unfortunately, it's
not economically feasible. The club for years
has tr i ed to get new members, has had
membership parties, and a lot of you in this
room have been invited over to membership
parties, and declined to join.
(INAUDIBLE AUDIENCE CONVERSATION.)
MR. CASTILLANO: I didn't say all of
you. I said many of you in this room were
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
84
invited over, okay?
I'd like to point out that it's
interesting that anybody who ta lks in favor of
this project or in favor of the club get's
heckled here, if you notice. Anybody that
talks against, everybody seems to be quiet and
respects their opinion. Just a side
observation I see.
To get back on track. I have a few
questions for --maybe Mr. Miller.
As far as traffic, we are talking about
maybe adding six hundred trips on the road. Is
that what this study is? My question is, how
many trips down AlA per day?
MR. MILLER: I'd like to know how you
got the six hundred trips.
MR. CASTILLANO: That's what I heard
today.
MR. MILLER: You're wrong, way wrong.
MR. CASTILLANO: Oh, I'm sorry.
Whatever it is, that's my question.
that.
I missed
MR. MILLER: Okay. T hese are the
numbers that we got, the transportation element
that we just adopted in March.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
85
Current at the foot of the bridge
coming over the inlet, there are thirty-six
thousand cars per day and about forty thousand
at peak season. The road and engineering
standard level service D, which is the way that
engineers describe the operations of a road,
the road can handle forty-seven thousand, five
hundred trips per day and still work
adequately.
So at present, obviously, thirty-six
thousand cars a day today is less than forty-
seven thousand five hundred, or even the forty
thousand.
If this project is built, it would add
about in maximum density about two
thousand trips per day. So it would take it to
thirty-eight thousand trips per day or forty-
two at peak season, still both below the market
level of service from both Dade County and our
Village.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It doesn't
matter what it would be.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: May I ask, what
project are you speaking of?
MR. MILLER: This project.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami , F lorida 33181
(305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
86
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Are you speaking
of a hotel?
MR. MILLER: We 1 re doing the
calculations on a condominium
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You 1 re way, way
off on your figures.
MR. MILLER: I'm not wrong, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: But we don't
know what they are going to use the property
for. So what are you using condominium numbers
for?
MR. MILLER: I just ran the scenario on
the condominium.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Well, you have
to run every scenario.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Hotel or condo.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That's blown up.
What if it's a hotel or condo?
MAYOR SPIEGEL: It's a lot more for a
hotel; more, in fact, for a hotel than for a
private condo.
MR. MILLER: I just want to make a
comment
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: May I ask Mr.
Miller a question?
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
87
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes. I just
wanted to ask Mr. Miller that it appears --and
I do want to apologize --that our own staff
may be just really not ready --if we only
looked at numbers with condominiums, and we
don't know --we're not discussing a use, then
we're just not ready to address the issue.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Mr. Miller,
based on the numbers for the hotel that you
just generated, is that at maximum density
hotel of five hundred and fifty units?
MR. MILLER: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: And based on
those projections and the figures that you have
done, would a hotel developed at five hundred
and fifty units be the l ow level of service for
this Village?
MR. MILLER: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: And how about if
you did this or did that, or if you --we're
not talking about usage. We're talking about
rezoning.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The rezoning
allows two uses of the property: A hotel at
five hundred and fifty units, max, a
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
88
condominium with three hundred and two units,
max.
What Mr. Miller just did, I believe --
and he can testify --was a worse case analysis
scenario. If it was built out fully, five
hundred and fifty units, it would work for a
hotel?
UNIDENT I FIED SPEAKER: If it was built
on fully three hundred and two units, it would
work as a condo. So that's what we call the
worse case maximum impact analysis.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That was for the
roads. Did you also compare the hotel for
sewer and for power?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Again, I just
want the public to realize you just heard --
and again, a compliment to Mr. Schulman in
taking a statement and putting it on the record
properly. Someone challenged, let's figure it
out for a hotel, but we know hotel maximum is
five hundred and seven --five hundred and
fifty rooms --do your calculations the
record is now established that that does fall
under our criteria.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
So again, folks, we are looking for
people to come speak today and at subsequent
meetings to help develop the proper record.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: May I ask a
question?
89
MAYOR SPIEGEL: You'll have to come up,
sir. We can't hear you.
Mr. Lebow?
MR. LEBOW: As I understand the "OF"
zoning --and correct me if I am wrong --it
allows the developer to put both a hotel and a
condo on the five and a half acres. Examine it
carefu l ly.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It's possible.
MR. LEBOW: You can see it does. There
is plenty of room for both there.
UNIDENTIFI ED SPEAKER: It's possible.
MR. LEBOW: Read the 11 OF 11 zoning. I
read it very carefully. I gave it to a friend
of mine, an attorney who does this kind of
work, and he says absolutely.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You could have a
structure that houses both, couldn't you?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: But you can't
exceed the theoretical limit of either three
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
90
hundred and two or five hundred and fifty
MAYOR SPIEGEL: No. You couldn't have
a five fifty and a three hundred and two.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Max, you can't
double count the numbers. But you are correct.
It could be a condo hotel, hotel condo, bowling
alley, whatever the Applicant wants to bu i ld.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I think we need
somebody to give us our own figures. I think
these figures are fine as far as the
(INAUDIBLE)
MAYOR SPIEGEL: If you would like to
hire an engineer --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We may.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: --to study it, fine.
We'd like to hear it, so we know what they want
to do.
Yes. Oh, you do? Is there anything
more?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Good afternoon.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Good evening.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: My concern as a
resident of Bal Harbour is that --
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Quiet, please. Let
them speak. He listened to you. Now, we have
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miam i , Florida 33181
(305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
2 4
25
91
to listen to him.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you.
My concern is that this will not be
passed, and if it is not passed, it could be
considered spot zoning and from what I
understand from the little knowledge I have on
development is that possibly, the City could be
liable for the thirty-six million dollars.
Again, my concern is if we do lose it,
the City has a lawsuit of thirty-six million
dollars and they are on the hook for the sale,
how wil l my taxes be affected to pay for th i s?
Thank you.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Thank you.
Mr. Berlin. Howard Berlin. I haven't
seen you lately.
MR. BERLIN: Howard Berlin, 67 Balbay
Drive.
Madam Mayor and Council Members, I am
going to be brief.
A lot of my comments have already been
expressed by some of the other residents of the
Village and as you heard, our counsel cou l dn't
be here today. But he will certainly be here
at the next meeting, regardless of what takes
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
92
place this afternoon.
First, in a way of observation upon
Dina's comment about the Master Plan. Frankly,
it seems to me absurd that this town would
allow as its calculus or green space, sand.
Okay, there seems to be something fundamentally
wrong with saying sand should count as green
space. Green space is green space, and I think
everybody else in this room understands what
green space is.
So I think the first thing we need to
do is amend our Master Plan to coincide with
our Zoning Plan, which means that green space
is green space and not sand. That's my
observation.
This way, we will be in conformity with
the State law because our Master Plan will be
consistent with our Zoning Plan and both will
read the same way. So an agenda item I think
we should take up soon.
Now, as I understand it --although I
am a practicing attorney, I'm not here as our
group's counsel today. But as I understand it,
the burden is on the Applicant here today, and
one of the issues that the Applicant has to
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
93
meet its burden on is to show that the current
use is not viable. And I think what we have
not heard today --although we've heard some
comments about the way the club has been run,
etc., etc., etc., the fact is the Applicant
expert has not even done a study on the
viability of this club.
He was prepared to testify generally to
whether or not clubs in general are doing well,
but we have not heard --and it is their burden
if you are going to approve this today, to show
that the club is not viable.
What we have heard is comments from a
couple of proprietary club members who stand to
cash in, to the tune of about a hundred and
fifty thousand dollars, why this is not a
viable situation. I don't need to get into
their bias on this subject, but clearly what we
haven't heard is a group of independent
objective residents of this Village come to the
podium and express why this is a good thing to
do.
So on that, I would suggest we do one
of two things today. Either we deny it because
they have clearly failed to meet their burden,
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
or at a minimum, we move to continue this and
post pon e.
Th ank y ou.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Thank you.
Mr. Ward, sir?
94
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Get to the mike.
MR. WARD: Howard, whether you know it
--my name is Glen Ward, again.
Whether you know it or not, I voted and
a good number of people voted to keep that
club. The problem with it is, the majority
voted not to.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: What year was
i t ?
MR. WARD: The same people running it
that have been running it. I'm sorry. It just
doesn't make --it's been losing money for a
good period of time, and it's still losing
mo n e y.
The problem with this is, Howard, we've
got a piece of property we can't keep running.
I mean, we can't, and even the people who were
social members and all, aren 't using the thing.
I mean, this thing divided the whole community
to a point that they aren't using it at all.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
95
So now it's just draining it even
worse. This thing has been the biggest battle
going on around.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Can I ask you a
question?
MR. WARD: You can ask me anything.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Do you think
it's possible that everything --that maybe new
leadership at the club would make a difference?
It's had the same leadership
If you're losing money and it's been
many years, if it's a public corporation, you
take out the leadership and you start again.
{INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We did try and
we did switch the board as well as the
president, and so far has not
The number of members is not enough.
That is the problem. That was the problem.
The taxes continue to increase and the expenses
went up.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Let me ask you,
Glen. Do you think they have met the burden --
without any comparables up and down the coast,
without showing graphs of real numbers, do you
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
think they've met the burden that it's not
viable as a club?
96
MR. WARD: Can I tell you that if I
believed that there was one viable way of doing
this, I would continue to fight to keep it
there.
Do I believe they have? Yes, because
Surf Club --
UN I DENT I FIED SPEAKER: I agree with
you, but according to us as a decision-making
body, we have not seen any numbers. We have
not seen past financials to show that is viable
or not viable. We have not seen comparables of
different clubs.
So just him saying that, we don't
really know if it's viable or not. We haven't
had any evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'd like to talk
on this issue. It's pertinent, too, to what is
going on right now and what has gone on in the
last three months.
Not only has the yacht --excuse me,
Mayor
MAYOR SPIEGEL: I got a call. Go
ahead.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Bi scayne Boulevard -Mi ami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
97
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Because he seems
to have a problem with this .
Not only --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Just to keep it
--I have no problem with this.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No, no, the
problem with this membership thing.
Not only can we not have a viable club
at the beach club facility, now we run our
numbers and try to put a yacht club together.
I go out there and I call residents throughout
this neighborhood and ask who wants to join a
yacht club, and I'm getting resistance there,
too. So a yacht club --
Excuse me. Let me have one second.
A yacht club that has a basis in land
of maybe two or three million dollars and a tax
expense of a lot less, that's not even turning
out to be economically feasible, let alone, a
property that's worth thirty-six million
dollars.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I agree with the
comment.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'm in trouble
running the club and getting memberships.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
98
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I agree, and
I'll look to our counsel, but I think in a
quasi-judicial proceeding, that we need
evidence to show if it's viable or not viable.
A couple of club members just coming up saying
it 's not viable, without fancy graphs and
comparables and to show us evidence as to why
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: But isn't the
truth as good as fancy graphs?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We need to see
numbers, numbers to show it's not a viable
club.
The Bath Club is having to sell off its
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Wait a second.
Where's the Bath Club?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Right down the
beach.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I don't even
know the Bath Club.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That's not my
problem. I've been here since '4 8.
Let me tell you, the Bath Club was one
of the stronger and better of the clubs. It is
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944 -988 4
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
99
going under. It's losing members.
The Miami Shores Country Club had to go
commercial, as far as that's concerned.
The Surf Club up there, I don't know
what their condition is at this particular
time. I know they have quite a few assessments
and as long as they get the big donations from
private individuals, they continue to stay in
business. They get private individual
donat i ons of large money.
All I'm telling you is, the club does
not work. You can get your graphs, you can get
whatever, there is no reason if that thing
would work, I would continue to argue for it.
I would continue to fight for it. I do not
want to see anything but a club there. It
can't be done.
Drive.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Thank you, Glen.
Dr. Lelchuk?
DR. LELCHUK: Ira Lelchuk, 169 Camden
I believe we're stuck in a bit of a
quandary as far as what the State law allows
you a l l to do, and then again how it affects us
all here. Unfortunately, it is all tied
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
100
together.
Though you can only vote right now on
zoning changing from private club to
oceanfront, it does --what will culminate
after that if it is rezoned oceanfront will
affect all of us.
Unfortunately, without knowing what, in
fact, they are going to be doing there, I
believe we, the residents, are in a quandary
and feel that we may not have the protection
that we voted you in to do for us to preserve
and protect Bal Harbour and the residents of
Bal Harbour.
I feel that there has been so much
discussed for the last two years when this
first emanated. The topic of the sale of the
club, moving the majority of the club from the
oceanfront into the residential area where the
club is going to stay in existence and build a
twenty thousand square foot building because
they felt they had enough members to sustain
that size, that they would have three or four
hundred members . They would have a building
there as well as a parcel on the oceanfront.
I feel at this time we really need to
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Bou levard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
101
sit back and look and see what the
possibilities are that we are going to render
over there, should you rezone it, and how it
would affect all of us.
One question to Mr. Miller is the
traffic situation. Has the Majestic traffic
situation been figured into what you are doing?
One thing I know, we do have to look
towards State law level, but I know we have a
State road going through our neighborhood, but
with the increased number of cars, do we know
how far in season we are going to be backed up
from the entrance of the shops to Harbour Way
and how long we are going to be stopped at the
various traffic lights?
I don't know if, again, you can rule on
that. If the State says you can sit five
minutes to go from 102nd Street to 96th Street,
well, maybe our Council Members can't have a
choice about that, but I know as a resident, I
would rather not be sitting five or ten minutes
as I have sometime in the season
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (INAUDIBLE)
DR. LELCHUK: I know you do.
So, again, I would like you to look at
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
102
the issues and try and get the evidence to see
what the actual ramifications will be if this
is rezoned and how this will affect us.
MR. WEINSTEIN: Joel Weinstein, 10185
Collins Avenue.
For my verification and for the
edification for all the people here, I would
like to know if Ava Development does own that
property or is it s till under agreement?
MAYOR SPIEGEL: I don't know.
MR. WEINSTEIN: They are corning here
and they are telling us they own the property.
Are they lying or telling us a bunch of lies,
or what's going on here? Does anybody know
whether they own the property?
Mr. Attorney? Do they own it or, they
don't own it?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: They don't own
it --
MR. WEINSTEIN: They own it or they
don't own it?
UNI DENTIFIED SPEAKER:
answer to that.
I know the
MR. WEISS: As I said in my initial,
underlying presentation to you, AVA Development
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
103
is a contract vendee. The Applicant before you
today for the zoning change is the owner of The
Bal Harbour Club, Inc.
Is that clear?
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Thank you.
MR. WEINSTEIN: They own the title.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Now, let me see
if I can explain it again.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Let me explain
it to you.
What he's saying is that the club owns
the property today.
MR. WEINSTEIN: That's what I wanted to
know.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The club owns
the property and --
MR. WEINSTEIN: They have a contract.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: They have a
contract, I assume such
MR. WEINSTEIN: So they are not the
owners of record? That's what I want to know.
So when they sent us a lette r here ,
they lied to us? AVA Development has purchased
the Bal Harbour beachfront property. To me,
that would say that they owned it. So they are
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
104
lying there.
The second thing is, I'm a tax
accountant. Not that I'm bragging, but I had
many people come to me with businesses that
failed. If you look around in Miami, you will
see a lot of people into a store, spend a
hundred thousand, fix up the store and two
months later it's closed and they went out of
business for a simple reason, very poor
ma nagement.
In my opinion, this club, if it was put
into the proper management, would make a lot o f
money. It's prime, prime location. It's
better prime location than Boca Raton or what
have you. This is Bal Harbour. You see the
Bal Harbour Shoppes. They do business because
they are beautiful shops and they're in a prime
location.
Bal Harbour Club should be a club and
it should remain like that. I would say for
the people who now own it, or whoever is going
to buy it subject to the existing conditions,
let them meet the challenge and make that club
into something good.
Bal Harbour, I've been a resident here
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, F lorida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1 0 5
for eleven years, is one of the most beautiful
areas that I've ever seen anywhere in the
world, and I think we ought to keep it, or try
to keep it as best as we can.
Th a nk you .
MR. CLANCY: Just one more thing
real quick. Sean Clancy, again.
I, too, have been a social member of
the club for eleven years. The club is a
wonderful place. There has been a period of,
shall we call it, benign neglect. There has
been a desire on the part of some of the people
in the club for this situation to develop over
a number of years, because their desire was to
sell the club.
As Glen said --and I fully believe
Glen in what he is saying. He has no desire
to sell the club. He would like to see the
club stay viable, but unless you have a
concerted effort from the top to the bottom to
bring in new members, to keep the club up, to
attract the people in the community who have
moved in over the past ten years, obviously,
it's not going to be a financially viable
s i tuat i on .
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORT I NG, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Mi ami , Florid a 33181
(30 5 ) 944 -98 8 4
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
10 6
But for many of the people, though, the
bottom line is they want the hundred and fifty
thousand dollars. Let's not kid ourselves.
They are going to commit to money that they
never thought they would commit to before.
They want the cash. The desire to keep the
club is very much secondary to them. The
desire to maintain a very beautiful community
is very much secondary --it all comes down to
the money. The developer wants to make money
because he wants to develop the property and
that's what we have right here.
But, there are a lot of people, really,
who would like to be a member of this club if
there was new leadership and if there was a way
to join this club and make it a real viable
situa tion.
So, definitely there are people who
want to join, but unfortunately, that's not the
desire of some of the people driving the train.
Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Along the way
because it's been a long train ride --there
were people who were willing to buy the club
and to maintain it as a club.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
1 9
20
21
22
23
24
25
107
Unfortunately, it then became a bidding
war and different things went back and forth.
So these people were pushed aside in a court of
law. But there are people out there who would
like to own this club and maintain it as a
club, but cause of the internal politics as of
this point, that has not yet happened.
Thank you.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: That's the first I
heard about that.
Anyone else?
Mr. Schulman?
MR. SCHULMAN: Do I get any rebuttal?
UNIDEN T IFIED SPEAKER: Feel free.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Everybody done?
MAYOR SPIEGEL: No.
MR. RUDOLPH: I can speak for rebuttal.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You can speak.
This is for rebuttal. This is rebuttal.
MR. RUDOLPH: What happens after
then it's over after rebuttal?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It's over until
either we get continued, denied or move on.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Why don't you
speak now?
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
1 7
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
108
MR. RUDOLPH: Is there any way to
reserve the
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Reserve the right --
MR. RUDOLPH: At what point will it be
decided whether you all are going to vote today
whether this is going to be?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I haven't
decided.
MR. RUDOLPH: That hasn't been decided
yet.
Will I have an opportunity before that
decision is made to come up and speak? If so,
I'd like to
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Now is your
chance.
MR. RUDOLPH: Now is my chance?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The opportunity
is coming shortly.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Speak, or forever hold
your peace.
MR. RUDOLPH: There are just a couple
of things I'd like to add onto the record, read
into the record, if I might.
Again, I want to --I'm sorry --Doug
Rudolph, 212 Ba lbay .
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
1 9
20
21
22
23
24
25
109
I am sure that there are a number of
very serious legal issues that our attorney has
passed on to us from research that he has done
today that none of us are capable of putting
into the record right now, and for that I
apologize.
In laymen 's terms, I'd like to just
have you all remember a few things.
First and foremost, if you read the
Master Plan carefully that continues to refer
to what the intentions of everybody was when it
was put into place, it very specifically says
that this could happen, not this will happen.
I think that that's an important element to
remember.
Secondly, I also think it needs to be
remembered that --(INAUDIBLE)
Speaking personally, since the issue of
the viability of that club was brought forward
and opened up as a main and integral part of
this proceeding, I'd like to say two things.
There are many , many of us who would have
joined the club long ago had it not been clear
that the intent of the club was to sell it, and
that if we put our not insubstantial deposits
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Mi ami, F lorida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
110
down, we would not receive them back. That was
not the most welcome open arms situation.
Secondly, Mr. Clancy alluded to the
people that were along the way willing to buy
this club. I feel very badly in certain
respects when I see the club not working.
th ink all of us do.
Since that issue was opened up, I'd
I
like to say more specifically that the group
that came in and made a bid for those
proprietary memberships, it was not a small
amount of money. I think it was in the
neighborhood of $68,000 for a proprietary
membership.
Along the way, somebody had to make the
dec i sion do we want that much money, and if
that group's intent to keep it as a club, those
people had to decide at the club whether they
wanted to take this much money to keep it as a
club or this much money and change it. And as
long as we're talking about those issu es , I
just thought it would be nice to enter that
into the record as a fact so we don't forget it
later.
As I said before respectfully to you
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305} 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
111
people who have a very tough job to do, our
group, and just speaking .for our group --we
are willing to go whichever way you are, as far
as how you want to deal with the issues. So I
will leave that to you.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you.
MR. SCHULMAN: Madam Mayor and Members
of the Council, my name is Cliff Schulman,
again.
The first thing I'd like to do, very
importantly, I'd like to offer Fred Spiegel a
ride home.
(LAUGHTER FROM THE AUDIENCE}
here --
MR. SCHULMAN: I don't want him stuck
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Who?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Fred Spiegel.
MR. SCHULMAN: Okay. He doesn't want
to be with me, either.
Look, I got you better attendance at
this meeting than you have had in a long time.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That's true.
MR. SCHULMAN: Let me deal with a
couple of things very, very seriously, if I
might.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
,--
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
112
Having done this for a few years --and
you might find this hard to believe --this is
not the first time I have appeared on behalf of
those who seek to build both highrise multiple
family, as well as other types of uses in an
area. And it is not unusual, nor am I
particularly surprised or shocked, that people
who are here both in the single fam i ly and
those who already l ive in highrises would like
to keep things the way that they we r e. They
made a great movie of that.
But it has clearly been known that the
club facility, from a Master Plan point of view
and from a zoning point of v i ew, has been
capable of being used f or th i s purpose. So
there is no great surprise that I'm hearing
opposition. But we should all recognize one of
the things which you swore as your obligation
to do when you took office and every elected
official in the state of Florida does --you
swore to uphold and def end the constitution of
the United States, the Constitution of the
State of Florida and the Charter and Ordinances
of the City of Bal Ha r bou r.
UNID ENTIFIED SPEAKER: I don't remember
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
113
that.
MR. SCHULMAN: Yes, you did.
In point of fact, you may even have a
signed appointment that was made in the record
books as to your taking that oath. That is a
very serious oath.
One of the things we are talking about
here is not whether or not this should be a
public park. You have the power to make this a
public park. There is a Constitutional way to
do that, and what you do, if you choose to, is
you condemn it and you pay market value, fair
market value, (INAUDIBLE) market value, so that
private people's property rights are protected.
Because both the Constitution of the
United States and the State of Florida, to get
on my high horse here, say that nobody's
property should be denied without due process
of law and without the payment of full
compensation.
Now, I would challenge anyone in this
room who were told that they could not do
something with their property by the
government, how concerned they would be that
they would be that they receive all the
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
2 1
22
23
24
25
protections of the law. One of those
protections is that zoning in the State of
114
Florida is not done by (INAUD I BLE). It is not
done by a popular vote. Before you can
restrict someone's right, Constitutional right,
to use his property, there must be evidence,
there must be a hearing and there must be a
quasi-judicial body.
You are not sitting as you know today
as you do when you wear your l egislative hat.
Your City Attorney would instruct you, you are
sitting as if you were judges hearing a
judicial case. Now, what kind of judicial case
would it be if the judge looked out over the
amassed people in the courtroom and said, "All
in favor of hanging the guy --al l in favor --
hang him."
Well, that was just the lynch justice
that the constitution was enacted to stop.
I think Mr. Hi rschl is quite correct
and clearly r ecognizes the standard of proof
that is before you today. And all of the
eviden ce, the only evidence which i s before you
today, we believe, sustains the position that
the property should be changed from "PC.11
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
115
From the people who actually tried to
make the club work every way that they could,
under oath they told you --under oath --and
they are challenged, because, "Oh, they have an
interest." Well, everybody here has an
interest. They wouldn't be in this room today
at 6:00 o'clock without an interest, without
some bias. But under oath, they told you what
they went through. That's the only evidence in
the record.
The only other evidence in the record
is an expert who does nothing but value real
estate and these types of properties for a
living and is the only expert you've heard
today regarding the utilization of the
property, and I'm going to let him speak again
also on other properties.
All I'm saying to you is, we just don't
count noses anymore, and say well, that's what
the people want, because there are private
property rights that are exceedingly i mportant.
The testimony, clearly on the usage of
traffic, shows that all your standards for
traff ic and every other consideration for the
servi ces that are necessary for this type of
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
1 3 899 Bi scayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
116
development in a maximum development scenario
have been met and would be met by this
development.
I'd like Mr. Cannon to briefly address,
if he would, some of the issues of similar
clubs that he is familiar with on the ocean,
just to make it clear that his expert opin i on
to you was not merely based on a nationwide
knowledge.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Could I just say
You just mentioned a couple of times,
that's the only evidence i n the record.
all --
MR. SCHULMAN: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: And that we are
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: In his opinion.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Well, no.
We were all very friendly, did the
right thing at the last meeting. Now we move
to this meeting.
You are well aware that the attorney
for the residents is not here, who is supplying
much of the evidence. Having said that and
noting that, don't you think it's fair to allow
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Bou l evard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
117
--to continue this until they have a fair
opportunity to present their evidence, because
you are aware that that attorney is not here.
MR. SCHULMAN: Councilman, that's in
your discretion, really.
As you know, when it was first asked
the last time, we agreed and paid half the cost
of your re-advertising, as a show of good
faith, not to try to push it and not to try to
(INAUDIBLE).
I have no control over another
attorney's schedule. Clearly you have a whole
bunch of people who didn't manage to show up
today.
As to what's fair, we have a duly
noticed public hearing. It's been continued
once. Clearly that's within your discretion,
but I'm saying to you I was prepared, I'm here,
my people are here and we already deferred it
once and I paid half the cost of the
advertising. I don't know how much fairer I
can be than that.
So, Mr. Chair, can we come up for a
vote?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Point of order.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
1 6
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Yes?
You'll have to come up again for the
court reporter.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Madam Mayor,
this is a point of order.
Howard Berlin, 67 Balbay Drive.
118
Point of order. I heard Mr. Schulman
say several times during his rebuttal argument
that all of this testimony that's before you
was under oath. I never heard any oath
administered.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That's correct.
MR. BERLIN: My understanding is it
was talk, and unless it's under oath, it's just
that, talk. So where we are right now is,
there is no evidence in the record. I didn't
see one document submitted into evidence, and I
didn't see anybody take an oath. So right now
as I see it, there is zero in this record.
(Applause.)
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you, Mr.
Berlin.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: And I do hear at
other meetings, Madam Mayor, where the court
did administer an oath.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
119
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Everything is public.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: What I would,
Madam Mayor, Mr. Berlin being a lawyer. Thank
you.
I'd like the court reporter, with your
permission, to swear all of the witnesses that
testified, including your own expert that what
they said and what they will say today, was
true under the law.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Some people have
left.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'd like to
swear my witnesses. I don't care about the
rest.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: It's --we have --we
have it on public record. Everything is on
17 public record.
18 One moment.
19 (Thereupon, there was an off-the-record
20 discussion.)
21
22
23
24
25
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Whoever
testified and are going to testify, would you
raise your right hand and be sworn?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: They can't hear
you back there.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
120
If you testified or hope to testify,
please raise your right hand.
Thank you.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: That lady back there.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Marjorie Schell.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Whoever
testified already --
MAYOR SPIEGEL: You'll have to stand up
also. You have to stand up.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Whoever
testified or wants to testify, please stand up,
raise your right hand and be sworn.
(Thereupon, the witnesses were duly
sworn.)
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you.
Madam Mayor, we would ask that the
informational packet which was submitted into
the record at the beginning, be formally
admitted in evidence, and all exhibits used
in the course of my presentation be marked.
Is that all right, Madam Mayor, so the
record is clear?
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Yes.
He wants to be made a part of the
public record.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Cannon.
121
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: All right, Mr.
MR. CANNON: The most expensive club --
and I must classify this as equity membership
and social membership it's the equity
membership clubs that are absolutely running on
financial distress.
Social memberships, which is more of a
pay-as-you-go, are not having those same
problems because they are subsidized, as Mr.
Schulman said and I'm aware of this, by
sometimes grants, foundations and so forth and
several of them fall into a category of being a
non-profit status, but most clubs are not.
The most expensive club that I have
seen in South Florida is the Pelican Bay Club,
where the current equity fee is $106,000 per
member.
The studies that we have done include
Weston Hills Country Club, which is in a major
lawsuit between the property owners and the
equity membership and the golf club and were
involved in that lawsuit for about three years
as a consultant to Arvida.
We did Ocean Reef Club, which ended up
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
122
being sold to the two thousand members of Ocean
Reef and Key Largo, for those of you who are
familiar with it.
We have met with prospective investors
on the Surf Club and the Bath Club, which are
running into similar fi n a ncial difficulties
that you are in here.
The most unique club that we had the
opportunity of doing a study on was Mar-A-Lago,
and that was Mr. Trump who bought the former
Merriwether Post House. He bought that in
1985 , sinking several money out of pocket and
it was draining him, and he created a Trust and
converted it to a club, and we still have a bet
on the side as t o what the memberships were.
The City of Palm Beach said that the
maximum club members are five hundred. He
hasn 't reached that goal yet, but it's in a
Trust where it 's for public ownership. There
are a lot of memberships that are given away
there, and the financials of that
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Do you have any
exhibits that I could look at, anything? You
are going over numbers and facts, but anything
I could look at, I can verify, I can see
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
123
sources what they are?
MR. CANNON: I don't have that
available for you. I apologize. These are my
notes, but I can make it available to the
Council if you would like me to.
One of our clients is Aventura, which
is developing the Harbor Islands and because
that is the Intracoastal and in the Three
Islands neighborhood, they asked us to explore
the viability of the beach club and there were
several hotels on the beach, including former
Holiday Inns and so forth nearby.
When we conducted that study , we found
that it just wasn't economically viable where
they would share the cost of development, the
cost of memberships , amongst the over two
thousand residents that would eventually be
members under their condominium
association/homeowners association. So they
cancelled that idea.
The biggest problem that clubs have
and I'm sure your club must have the same
problem and as I said, I didn't review the
financials --is where you charge a mandatory
fee each month for the restaurant facilities
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
1 5
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
124
and then nobody shows u p to eat them. So you
throw the food away, and then people get upset
with wasted dollars for that .
The club that faced that p roblem a n d it
recently was so l d at a tremendous loss, is the
Deering Bay Yacht Club . The Deering Bay Yacht
Club had such a membership and all of the
equity memberships there and the dues and the
subsidies in that r egard for running the club,
because you pay a nd no one uses it, and t h en
you have those wasted dues and that's where the
financial distress occur s .
Recently I know that another company
purchased fr om the Codina operation the assets,
and about seventy million dollars was lost on
that deal. Those will give just some
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Well, I think these are
just comments and --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER : Madam Mayor, let
me just ask one follow-up question.
Your opinion that you gave earlier
regarding the viabi l ity of the club as an
economic use, is it based on not only the
national figures but your knowledge of the
local clubs that you me ntioned today?
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
125
MR. CANNON: National, state, local and
more specific , the actual clubs that I
addressed in my presentation .
MAYOR SPI EGEL: Thank you very much .
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER : Thank you .
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Can he be cross
examined?
cross
UNIDENTIF I ED SPEAKER :
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER :
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER :
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
examine him.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Okay.
This gentleman?
Yes.
sure.
I'd like to
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER : Go right a h ead .
MR. BERLIN: Do you need my name again?
MAYOR SPIEGEL : Yes .
MR . BERLIN : Howard Berlin , 67 Ba l bay
Drive .
Sir, is it your testimony today that
all beach clubs fail? Is that your testimony,
that all beach clubs fail?
MR. CANNON: If people put in the
equity membership and pay the shortfall of
operations, they will not fail.
MR. BERLIN : Okay.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
126
So then it is your testimony that beach
clubs can be successful? Isn't that correct?
MR. CANNON : Successful, yes, viable,
no.
MR. BERLIN : Okay, sir , you testified
you did not examine this particular beach
club's financial records. Isn't that correct?
MR . CANNON : Yes, because of the
confidentiality agreement , as I understand it.
MR. BERLIN: I'm not asking you about
confidentiality.
The fact is, you did not examin e this
particular beach club's financial records . Yes
or no?
MR . CANNON : Not at this time, but I
will if asked.
MR . BERLIN: Okay, but today is the
hearing
Now, last question. S ir, are you
familiar with the Johnson Stoker (phonetic)
proposal that was before this club a couple of
years ago? Yes or no?
MR . CANNON : No, sir .
MR . BERLIN : Sir, if you were told that
the John son Stoker proposal would have paid all
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
127
of the carrying costs for this club, what would
your opinion be as to its viability?
MR. CANNON : I would have to see the
contract terms and conditions to give that
opinion, sir .
MR . BERLIN : Last question .
Isn't i t most likely, sir, that if that
proposal would have paid the carrying costs,
which the club members have been telling us is
what burdens this club, paying the taxes, e tc.,
that most likely this c lub would be successful?
Yes or no?
MR. CANNON : I can't answer that yes or
no, but it depends after I read the financial
terms.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That 's the
exp ert . Bon voyage.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I have a
question f or Howard Berlin.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Excuse me , may I have
your name?
MR. CASTILLANO : Bill Castillano.
Howard? I have a question for Howard.
I have a question for you.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That is the
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 3318 1
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
128
witness . I am not the witness .
MR . CASTILLANO: Are you saying you
won 't answer any of my questions?
UNIDENT IFIED SPEAK ER: No. I said that
is the witness .
MR. CASTILLANO:
a question for you .
I'm just saying I have
MAYOR SPIEGEL : Would you come up ,
please?
MR . CASTILLANO: If I can't ask a
question, then I 'll sit down .
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER : I'll be happy to
be the expert witness on the viability of this
club, sir.
Are you asking the question as a
proprietary member who is about to cash in a
hundred and fifty t housand dollars, or are you
asking me a que stion as just a res ident who is
concerned about the welfare of the community?
Which is it?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'm asking you
as a res ident of this community a question.
Have you been to the beach club?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER : Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Were you invited
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, F l orida 33 181
(305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
129
to the beach club?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER : Well, actually
the time I --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I wouldn 't
exactly say I was invit ed .
If you'd like, I'd be happy to tell of
the circumstances, but I don't think I was
invited .
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Were you ever
sent a letter --maybe you didn't live in the
neighborhood at the time that a letter went out
to the residents .
Were you sent a letter to come to a
membership recruitment meeting?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER : I don't recall.
I may have. I don't know what the relevance
is .
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Excuse me .
When that letter was sent to you, did
you throw that away, or did you seriously
consider joining as a member of the club?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Gentleman
gentleman --have a seat, please .
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER : I don't think
this is relevant --
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
1 3899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MAYOR SPIEGEL: It's going nowhere.
This gentleman is --and then you have to be
sworn in.
130
MR. HOLDER: I need to say one thing,
just one, please.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He has the
floor.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Let him speak.
MR. HOLDER: Madam Chairperson, I hope
the Chair --
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Please sit down for one
moment while he is speaking.
MR. HOLDER: My name is Daniel Holder.
I have been a resident of Bal Harbour for
fourteen years.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: What's your address,
please?
MR. HOLDER: 24 Balbay Drive.
When I first moved here, my wife and I,
we were invited to join the Bal Harbour Club.
The argument that was given --or the
inducement --was that as proprietary members,
it was a real l y good investment because one
day, this club woul d be sold and we would make
a whole lot of money.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
131
I didn't think that was a very good
reason to join the club. At that time, I
didn't think it was a good investment because I
foresaw problems with zoning changes and all
that's happening now.
I don't know whether the club is a
viable club or not. I do know that right now
that property is zoned as a club and that
property is a valuable part of this community.
If you put a large residential facility there,
it's going to be a considerable detriment to
this community.
If a club moves into where the Yacht
Club is and expands and increases traffic, it's
going to be a detriment to this community.
The gentleman before was explaining to
you your duties as a Village Council. I think
your primary duty as the Village Council is to
protect this neighborhood. I don't think the
Village in the past has always done that.
I think we have larger buildings here
than we should have and a higher population
than we should have.
You have an opportunity now where all
you have to do is just say no. It's a
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
132
property that has a particular zoning. The
people involved with that property knew what
that zoning was from the beginning, and I ask
you to protect this community and please say
no.
Thank you.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Mrs. Roberge.
MR. ROBAGE: I 'm Lucille Roberge. I
live at 165 Biscay Drive for twenty-six years.
I was a member of the Bal Harbour Club
and the one thing that I don't think anybody
has brought out about the beach club. We have
yacht club with the beach club, and that is
unique.
If that yacht club would have been
developed the way it should have been years
ago, we wouldn't be in thi s mess that we are
today.
Thank you.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Yes, sir.
Please be brief and not repetitious.
We've heard everything. Give us something new.
MR. CARBISARO (Phonetic): Phil
Carbisaro, 63 Balbay Drive.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Thank you.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
133
MR. CARBISARO: If I can, could I see
that first b i llboard that was put up by Mr.
Schulman? Is that asking too much?
The magnificent one of showing the
whole of Bal Harbour from the ocean, and you
had each one
MAYOR SPIEGEL: The one in color?
MR. CARBISARO: The thing that got my
interest on that is that there is only one with
a private club there. There are a million
maybe not a million and I'm over exaggerating
--highrises. I don't think we need another
highrise in the community. I think the burden
--and it's an historic vote I believe, and the
burden is on you people. Once that's voted
public or whatever, we lose that forever.
Bal Harbour has always been unique and
I think by allowing another highrise to come
in, we will never be able to have a private
club there.
My suggestion is that maybe we should
ask for a continuance, rather than have vote
today, and let the residents, the concerned
residents --You don't know what you have until
you lose it. I think there might be enough
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
134
interest right now to make that successful.
So I'm asking for a continuance, rather
than a vote at this moment, so that we can
reinforce our feelings of the neighborhood.
Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Anybody else?
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Yes, there are other
people who want to speak.
Are there any comments from the
audience?
Are there any comments from the staff
or from our attorney?
Mr. Schulman, was there something else
you were going to discuss?
MR. SCHULMAN: You have been very
generous with your time and your patience, and
we are just here to answer any questions that
you may have.
And Fred can still get a ride home with
me.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: We are going to have to
wait. We have to wait for Peggy Gerson to
return so we can have a full Council here. No
excuses.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: And you know our
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
135
1 standard rule, that you have to stay for the
2 rest of the meeting.
3 (Thereupon, there was an interruption
4 in the proceedings .)
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
1 5
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Okay, we 're
back .
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Ladies and
gentleman, I think it's time that we go ahead
and face the issue.
Again, I think for the public's
informa tion and for the Council 1 s full
understanding, I am going to ask the City
Attorney once again to go over our options and
explain the ramifications of various votes that
we are about to embark upon. Please.
MR. WEISS: Let me just go through and
read you from the most important case in this
area, which basically says:
"A land owner seeking to rezone
property has the burden of showing that the
proposal is consistent with the comprehensive
plan and that they have complied with their
procedural requirements."
That's the ir burden.
"At this point, the burden shifts to
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miam i, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
136
demonstrate that maintaining the existing
zoning with respect to the property
accomplishes a legitimate government purpose
a legitimate public purpose. In effect, the
land owners --"blah, blah, blah.
"The board or the public has the burden
of showing that the refusal to --
"The burden of ;the people objecting to
this rezoning is to show that the refusal to
rezone the property is not arbitrary,
discriminatory or unreasonable," and that's the
way the burden is .
The issue of, more people want it, less
people want it, that's not evidence. That's
interesting and I think that is significant.
know people have strong feelings about it, but
I
in order for the Council to make a decision on
this one way or another --and I don't know how
you are going to vote and I'm going to have to
defend it either way --so I'm certainly not
taking a position on this.
But you have got to have information on
the record to support your decision. As well
meaning as people are , the fact that they say I
don't like the project, That's not enough
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
137
evidence. or Mr. Schulman saying, I think it's
a great project. That's not enough, either.
There has got to be evidence.
Evidence doesn't need to be from fancy
professionals, but it needs to be evidence and
not just sort of someone's opinion as to what
they feel.
I know that that's difficult for you as
a Council because I know that you are elected
by constituents and you are here to serve the
public and to protect the Village and do all
those other things. But unfortunately, as a
result of the case law that is comi ng down, you
have a lot less discretion in this area than
you used to.
so what's important is that whatever
decision you make today, that that decision is
based upon evidence on the record based upon
those th i ngs that I just discussed.
In other words, there has got to be
evidence if you are going to approve it, that
it complies with the Comprehensive Plan and
they have met their procedural requirements.
If you are going to deny it, there has
got to be evidence on the record that it's not
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
138
arbitrary, it's not discriminatory and it's not
unreasonable evidence.
So whichever way you go, you need to
have evidence in the record to support your
decision.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: In other words, the
people that are for it, the evidence of how
much they are going to receive is really none
of our business.
MR. WEISS: No.
MAYOR SPIEGEL: And the people that are
opposed to it can't say I don't want it because
I don't like a highrise or I don't want a
hotel. That's not evidence. That's opinion.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The courts have
recognized that it doesn't need to be expert
opinion, but it just can't be I don't like it?
There has got to be a reason. There have got
to be things in the record --put things in the
record
MAYOR SPIEGEL: What's the reason? Why
don't you like it?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Madam Mayor?
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: This, by far in
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
139
my tenure on the City Commission is this most
significant issue that has ever come before me
and I think probably this Council in recent
memory.
It's apparent to me that the record is
incomplete. There are individuals who aren 't
here, who for my vote and my understanding and
for me to make my educated and prudent and
honorable decision, I would like the
opportunity to listen to more people.
I think it's well within our right to
ask for a deferral. I think the record must be
clearly understood before we vote in any manner
on this subject, and I hereby make a motion
that we defer for sixty days, because of Mr.
Schulman 's inability to be here at our next
meeting, and we will continue at that time.
That is where, hopefully, we will get
the record established and the first vote on
the two Ordinances that we must vote upon will
be approved.
So that's my motion.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'd like to
second the motion.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: So we can avoid
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
140
the having to make a decision again about the
--it will be a continuation of the public
record
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I would like at
this point --and again, I am n ot trying to
waste taxpayer's money --but at this point,
not to burden the Applicant or the others, I
think the City should once again send out a
postcard notification at our expense. I think
it's good government and I think it's a way to
keep our citizens informed --for both sides.
Whether you are for it or against it, it's the
way it should be.
So has the motion been seconded?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Last month, we
deferred this for thirty days? I very
carefully asked Mr. Shubin and Mr. Schulman if
thirty days was going to be enough. This was
last month. "Oh, yes."
Mr. Shubin was here when this date was
set. To find him in Los Angeles today, it does
not sit well with me. But I agree. We do
need to get more on the record and so I wi ll
go along with this. But beyond sixty days,
don't look for any more deferrals.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944 -9884
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
141
MAYOR SPIEGEL: And bring back strong
evidence.
Let's call the vote, please.
Do you want to poll?
MS. HORTON: Mayor Spiegel?
MAYOR SPIEGEL: Aye.
MS HORTON: commissioner Hirschl?
COMMISSIONER HIRSCHL: Aye.
MS. HORTON: councilman Gorson?
COUNCILMAN GORSON: Aye.
MS. HORTON: counci l man Boggess?
COUNCILMAN BOGGESS: Aye.
MS. HORTON: Councilman Tantleff?
COUNCILMAN TANTLEFFF: Aye.
MAYOR SPIEG EL: Okay. This continuance
is approved for sixty days.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884
142
1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2 I, RITA BERNSTEIN, do hereby certify that I
3 transcribed. the foregoing excerpt of the proceedings at
4 the time and place hereinabove set forth, and that the
5 foregoing pages numbered from 1 to 1 41, inclusive,
6 constitute a true and correct transcription of
7 tape recordings of the proceedings at said hearing.
8 WITNESS MY HAND at Miami, Dade County, Florida,
9 this 12th day of November, 1997.
PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC.
13899 Biscayne Boulevard -Miami, Florida 33181
(305) 944-9884