HomeMy Public PortalAbout2017-03-07 AttorneyClient In The Matter Of Lynne Bloch Mullen CASE 2017-003330CA01_271
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ORIGINAL
BAL HARBOUR VILLAGE
ATTORNEY/CLIENT SESSION
IN THE MATTER OF LYNNE BLOCH MULLEN, et al v .
BAL HARBOUR VILLAGE, et al
CASE NUMBER: 2017-003330 CA 01(27)
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BAL HARBOUR VILLAGE HALL
655 96th STREET
BAL HARBOUR, FLO RI DA 33154
TUESDAY, MARCH 7, 2017
7:10 p.m. -7:55 p.m.
Ta ken before Mary G. Stephenson, FPR, No tary
Public for the State of Florida
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APPEARANCES:
COUNCILMEM BERS:
GABRIEL GROISMAN , MAYOR
SETH E . SALVER, ASSISTANT MAYOR
DAVID ALBAUM, COUNCILMAN
PATRICIA CO HE N, COUNCILWOMAN
JEFFREY FREIMARK , COUNCILMAN
VILLAGE MANAGER:
JORGE M. GONZALEZ
VI LLAGE ATTORNEY :
WEISS SEROTA HELFMAN
COLE & BIERMAN , P.L .
BY : RICHARD J AY WEISS , ESQ.
VILLAGE CLERK:
SUSAN L. TREV ARTHEN, ESQ.
MATTHEW MANDEL , ESQ .
DWIGHT S. DA NI E
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(Present during public sess ion only .)
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Thereupon, the following proceedings were had:
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MAYOR GROISMAN : Good evening , ladies and
gentlemen . I 'm calling this mee t ing to order .
Dwight, do you want to call .the roll?
MR. DANIE: Yes . Roll call .
Mayor Groisman.
MAYOR GROISMAN: Here.
MR. DANIE: Assistant Mayor Salver.
ASSISTAN T MAYOR SALVER : Here .
MR . DANIE : Coun ci l man Albaum.
COUNC I LMAN ALBAUM : Here .
MR. DANIE : Councilwoman Cohen.
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : Here.
MR. DANIE : Counci l man Freimark.
COUNCILMAN FREIMARK : He.re .
MR . DANIE : We h ave a quorum.
MAYOR GROISMAN : Thank you .
(Thereupon , Mr . Danie left the room.)
MAYOR GROISMAN: The time is now 7:10.
We are about to hav~ an attorney/c l ient
session in accor dance with Florida S t atute 286.011
regarding the litigation styled Lynn Bloch Mullen ,
et al· versus Bal Harbour Village , et al, Case
Number 2017 -003330 CA 27 .
The session is est imated to last one half
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hour. I t says one hour here .
COU NC I LMAN ALBAUM : Fifty percent . I l i ke
that already.
MAYOR GROISMAN : The following people will
be in a ttendance at this meeting: Myself ,
Assis t ant Mayor Salver , Councilma n Freimark ,
Councilman Albaum, Coun c i lwoman Cohen , Vi llage
Manager Go nzalez , Vill age At torneys Richard Weiss,
Susan Tre iarthen , and Matt he w Mandel .
T h ese p roceed i ngs will be recorded by a
certi fie d court reporter and ,. at the conclusion of
all l i tigation discussion, the t r anscri pt will be
made part of the pub l ic record .
All those individua l s who I have not named
shoul d leave , but there is n obody h ere , so we are
going t o start the meeting .
MR . WEISS : By way of introduction , I want
to introduce Matt Mandel as the head of our
litigation department . He is handling the lawsu i t
that Susan wil l go over .
MS . TREVARTHEN: Okay . Thank yo u ,
Mr . Mayor .
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : Why is Mr . Serota not
invo l ved?
MR . WEISS : Why Mr . Serota? Matt is a
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better lawyer.
MR . GON ZALEZ : Make sure you include th a t
in the r ecord.
COUNCILMAN ALBAUM: Educate him .
MS. TREVAR THE N: Let me give you a brief
background . I t hin k most of you are familiar with
the facts here, but just to reorient us t o wh a t
happe ned.
T raditiona lly, t he village people who
circu la t e a petition have come to the v i l lage
first and got t en input on how to handle the
format, but in this case t he committee known as
Good Government For Bal Harbour circulated
petitions las t November and they did not come to
us first to r eview the form of the petitions .
The clerk received a fo l der full of the
signed pe t itions that had two questions .
The first question amended Section 81 o f
the v il lage charter by r equiring from
November 1 st , 2016 forward the margin of approval
for votes to sell village property woul d be
increased f rom a simple majority to 60 percent .
That was S ect i on 81.
The other quest i on created a new section of
our c ha rter, which would bi Section 82 . Any
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proposed development plan for an existing
commercial property t h at increases the existing
commercial retai l space by more than 30 percent of
the current amount of the retail space must be
submitted for approval to the electors of Bal
Harbour Village and approved by a vote of at least
60 percent o f the village electors voting on such
referendum .
So we have an i ncrease in the voting marg i n
on the sale of property and we have this
referendum on commercial expansions.
MR . GONZALEZ : Two separate.
MAYOR GRO I SMAN : Can I ask for a
clarification?
On t he first one, t hou gh , to sell village
property, the only t hing we vote on is if it is in
the best interest anyway and then it goes into
MR. GONZALEZ : What they are trying
MS . T REVARTHEN: This is the voter 's
margin .
MAYOR GROISMAN : On bo t h of them ar e the
voter 's marg in .
MS . TREVARTHEN : On the first one, righ t
now it 's just a simple majority . They would
change i t to 60 percent and it would go back to
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November of 2016.
MAYOR GROISMAN: The second one, they are
trying to
MS. TREVARTHEN: It 's a whole new thing.
MAYOR GROISMAN: A new requirement. A
whole new vote.
MS . TREVARTHEN: That if you have
commercial expansion,. you have to go to the voters
and you need 60 percent of the voters.
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: I don't unde rstand the
part about going back .
MS. TREVARTHEN: It's written to be
retroact ive . So this change in the voting margin
on the sale of village property says going back to
November of 2016, any action to sell village
property.
MR . GONZALEZ: Any sale that might occur
after November of 2016 .
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : Oh. Is that when they
filed the lawsuit?
MS . TREVART HEN: Thi s is just the question
they wrote . This is what they asked our voters to
sign pe tit ions to.
MAYOR GROISMAN: If we sold the property on
November 1 7th , this was passed seven months later,
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what would happen?
MS . TREVARTHEN: They would --ostensibly,
they would try· to enforce it retroactively, but I
understand what you are saying in terms of the
difficulties they would face .
So they came to the village and they said,
look , we are governed by state statute . We met
all the r equirements. Please process our
petitions . So as th e village clerk, Dwight Danie
has the responsibil ity to hand l e this . He serves
not only as your clerk, but also as the municipal
election offici al , as you know as candidates
dealing with him .
So he reviewed the petitions and first
identified that there were two versions o f this
Section 82 question and he consulted with us and
we said that he should ask the committee 's
representative wha t to do.
Ultimately , they came in and th ey sorted
them out and they chose the version of the
question they wanted and got rid of the second
version of that question.
A question a rose during this process of
what the proper rules were to apply to these
peti tions. We had opinions from the committee 's
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representative who is J.C. Planas, who argued the
county rules and village charter ru l es did not
apply . He said just the Florida statute applied ,
which did not require things like the affidavit of
th e pe tition .circulated .
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: Which charter speaks
to th is? I was under the impr es sion the village
charter d i dn 't .
MS. TREVARTHEN: J.C . Planas made the
argument that the vil l age charter provisions don 't
apply .
But we also got an argument from the shops'
attorney to the contrary, that said that the
village charter provisions might app l y.
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : So t he vi l lage charter
does speak to this?
MS . TREVARTHEN : What the village charter
says is it sets out a series of rules that apply
for initiatives and referendum 6f ordinances . It
is silent on the top i c of charter amendments.
But we had two attorneys who gave us
opinions . One saying it would apply. The other
said it would not ·apply .
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN :
if it doesn't speak to it?
Susan, what can apply
It doesn 't speak to
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it, so it doesn 't apply.
MS. TREVARTHEN: That is an i nterpretation
of the county charter . When we spoke with
Mr. Danie , we gave t he opinion t hat we felt
MR. GONZALEZ : Not speaking on behalf, b u t
I know you mentioned something about the doc u ment
that was provided, the petition, er r oneously
maybe, but it says initia tiv e pe t ition on it,
which, I guess, our code does speak to, even
though it 's an initiative .
MS. TREVAR THEN : I t 's a confusing f orm . In
the upper right hand corner , it says charter
amendment, and then in the middle it says
init iat ive petition .
MAYOR GROISMAN : The t i t le in big says
initiative petition.
MS. TREVARTHEN : Right .
MAYOR GRO I SMAN : Which wou l d indi cate t hat
Bal Harbour --t hat goes right in t o our code .
MR . WEISS : J u s t so you know, a n i nitia t ive
pe t it i on is a petition where people seek to add
things to the village code .
A referendum is where th ey seek to remove
something .
MS. TR EVARTHEN : And t hat i s clearly
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defined in our charter , that it wo rks that way .
MR . WEISS: This is a different process ,
which is t h ey seek to amend our charter .
They are different animals . They sound the
same, b u t they are different animals .
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : You mean both of t ho se
initia tives or petitions or whatever they did,
they are differe nt fr om each other . Is that wha t
yo u are saying?
MR . GONZA LEZ: You have two r eferendu m
quest i ons, but they are the same styl e .
MS~ TREVARTHEN: No. The se are two charter
amendments.
MR. GONZALEZ: Right . So each one o f them
amends the charter .
MS. TREVARTHEN : These are t wo suggestions
to change our charte r .
MR . GONZALEZ: Section 81 and Section 82 .
MS. TRE VARTHEN : What our charter in i t
already says is if you are go i ng to have ·
ini tiatives and referenda about ordinances , not
about cha rter amendments, these a re the rules that
apply.
The actual peti t ion t hat was circula t ed was
confusing b ecause it had two differen t names on
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it, but in i ts substance i t was ac t ing to amend
our charter .
Also , you need 20 percent votes to do the
initiative and referendum on t he ordinance .
You only need the ten percent on the
ch~rter amendm~n t .
So there are meaningful distinctions
between the two .
MAYOR GROISMAN : Ca n you step back a little
bit and g i ve us a perspect i ve?
If all the forma l ities were done correctly,
assume just arguendo, what would be t h e effect of
co llect i ng X amount signatures , wh atever they
co l lected , asking us to implement these new
regulations?
Are we obl i gated under our code to accept
those? Peop l e can j ust petit i on us to do
anything? Do we vote on it? How does t ha t work?
This is al l assuming they did the
formal i ties correct l y.
MS. TREVARTHEN : If al l the formalities
were correct, what would happen is that the
pe titions would be shipped o f f to t h e county
e l ections departmen t , and they would move forward
t o be placed on the ballot if al l of the
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procedural requirements were met .
However, I haven 't gotten to another issue .
MAYOR GROISMAN: So what would be placed?
Those ques t ions , those same questions that were on
the petition would then go on to a ballot?
MS. TREVARTHEN: So 8 1 and 82 .
MR. GONZA L EZ: You don 't have the right to
change i t .
MS. TREVARTHEN : You can 't rewrite i t .
MAYOR GROISMAN: Just to put it on the
bal l ot , right?
MR . WEISS : The county 's function i s ,
according to i nstructions from the village, i s to
basical l y count signatures .
CO UNCILMA N FREIMARK : And val ida te .
MR. WEISS : And validate the s i gnatures t o
make sure t ha t t hey are --
MAYOR GROISMAN: There i s also a big is sue
with regards to the signatures that were given ,
right? There are multiple signatures.
MS . TREVARTHEN : The county would look ~t
that when they wou ld count the petitions .
MAYOR GROISMAN : I didn 't mean to cut you
off . I jus t lost the context a little .
MS . TREVARTHEN: That is okay .
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MR . GONZALEZ : Technically, would he send
those to the county with specific criteria and the
county would
MS. TREVARTHEN: I 'm about to get to that.
MAYOR GROISMAN : You mean Dwight?
MR; GONZALEZ: Dwight, yes.
MS. TREVARTHEN: There is something I also
want to mentio n ,_ whi ch is that this Sect i on 82 ,
the one that is the brand new provision of your
charter that requires a popular referendum if you
are going to expand the comme r cial project, that
one runs right into a Florida statute, which ~s
Section 163. 3 1 67 ( 8) (a), which says a referendum in
regard to any development order is prohibited .
There is this whoie discussion we have had
leading up to now, as well as this evening, that
is more procedural in nature. Did they sign
right? Di d somebody attest to it? Does the paper
look right? This is a substantive concern with
putting the Sec t ion 82 of our . charter on the
ballot.
So when you say what happens next , there is
a question of would we send that o n even i f the
procedure were correct . We would need to decide .
MAYOR GROISMAN: So I understand , the
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second of the two petitions, t he one that --
MS. TREVARTHEN: The commercial expansion
referendum.
MAYOR GROISMAN: Commercia l expansion . If
there is commercial expansion more than
30 percent~ it needs to go to a refe rendum and the
referendum needs to be 60 percent, needs to win by
60 percent for it to be approved.
MS . TREVARTHEN: That is what i t says, yes .
MAYOR GROISMAN : That one seems to be
precluded by t he Flo rida statute , which says you
can't have referendums re l ated to development .
MS . TREVARTHEN: That is the concern .
No rmally ,· the village .clerk, city clerks,
it doesn't matter where you are, clerks are
generally not in the business of judging the
substantive validity of what the petition seeks to
do , but we as a village overall would have to look
at that and decide whether or not to forward .
staff?
So to get back to --
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : Excuse me . Excuse me .
So we as a village meaning who? We the
MS . TREVARTHEN: The v i l l age attorney, t he
administration .
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COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: So did we give
direction?
MAYOR GROISMAN: I thin k she just said it.
That it's precluded by t he statute.
MR. GONZALEZ: No ins t ructions have been
given.
MS. TREVARTHEN : I am turning to what --
MAYOR GRO I SMAN: We didn't have to get
there because of the procedu r al? Is that why?
MR. MANDELL : Correct.
MS . TREVAR T HEN : Exactly. What happened
was in early January , Dwight made the decision to
reject t h e pet i tions based on the lack of the
attestation of the petition circulator.
J ust to be clear, what we are talking
about, under the coun t y code , under the charter,
village charter provis i ons if they apply, there is
this requirement that you not on l y send around the
question and h ave the petition1 the person who
wan ts to sign the peti t ion sign off on it , you
should also have a place where the person who
circulates th e pe tition signs and says, yes, I did
this , I witnessed this signature , everything is in
good order.
So a question that was p r esent in this
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particular situation was these forms of these two
questions that were circulated by the committee
did not have a place for t he petition circulator
to execute .
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: Kind of like a
custodian .
MS . TREVARTHEN: Yes. To say this was done
right . Almost l i ke a n ot ary .
So he decided based on past pract i ce within
t he v il lage , and as I ment i oned i n the b e ginning,
in the past, people would always come to us
before. They had followed t he format of pas t
petit i on questions. All of them have the place
for the attestation of the petition circulator .
This commi t tee d i d not do that , and so they
used a form that did not have the attestation .
. MR . WE I SS : We have always been very
helpf u l when they came to us . Like Tucke r Gibbs
when he did the other charter amendment, he came
to us . We suggested some language that might be
clearer . So when they actually went through the
effort of circulating these petitions , things were
done in th~ r i g h t format.
There is no requirement that he do that,
bu t he d i dn 't do it righ t. They would have
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avoided all this problem.
COUNCILMAN ALBAUM: Does Dwight just solely
make this d ecision or does he confer with you
guys, too?
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: That is exact l y wh a t I
was going to ask .
COUNCI LMAN ALBAUM: Or Jorge or whoever was
present?
MS. TREVARTHEN : He did confer with the
manager. He also conferr~d with us, and we gave
him input, but u l tima t ely it's the role of the
vi l lage clerk on those matters to rule on these
petitions.
So wh at he d id , a s I said, it was r e je ct
th e m b as ed o n th e a ttes t at i o n.
MR. GO NZALEZ : I t 's his r o l e. S u s an ca n 't
tell him what to do o r I can 't tell him what to
do.
MS . TREVARTHEN: He works for you .
CO UNCILWOMAN COHEN : Wel l , legal advice he
can ge t from our attor n eys .
MS . T REVARTHEN : Which we did give him.
MR. WEISS: Just to put i t out, first of
al l , Dw i ght was in a ve r y difficu l t positio n , and
did a wo n derful , a good j ob on th i s, the best job
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he could . I will just tell you that . We had a
discussion with Dwight , and we told him --you
know , this is sort of like the Imbes i plat case
whe re you had lawyers on both sides , both smart
la wyers. In the Imbesi case , we told you that we
felt like Mr. Imbesi was correct.
In t his particular case , we to ld Dwigh t
that we thought that the petitioners were correct ,
and t hey had the --that was the better argument.
He felt very, very strongly based upon
precedent, what had always happened i n the
village , that this was required , and so that is
what he did .
But he did it in very good fait h based upon
what he spoke with prior clerks and all that. He -
did what he t hought was the right thing to do.
MS. TREVARTHEN: Exactly.
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : If we had had this
meeting not in private , but perhaps if we had
addressed this issue, not this meeting, but
something li ke this over there, could we perhaps
have avoided litigation if it was run by us and we
would side with you and say, let it go?
MS. TREVARTHEN: That is h is call.
MR. GONZALEZ: It 's hi s ca l l .
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MAYOR GROISMAN : He has the independence.
MR . WEISS: He is the supervisor of
elections .
MAYOR GROISMAN: This isn 't him as the
clerk . This is him as the supervisor of
elections . You can 't tell him what to do.
MS. TREVARTHEN: And he did come to the
council meeti ng in January i f you reca ll , and he
read a s ta tement that explained to t he council
that he had made thi s decision on th i s basis .
To add to what Ric hard said
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: So it was a statement .
MS . TREVARTH EN : which is a hundred
percent correct.
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: Suggesting that we
could have something brought i n front of us.
MS . TREVARTHEN : Right, right . He also
based it on the fact t hat many other Dade County
cities fol low thi~. Many o f them consider it a
best practice. When you go to municipal clerk
school, they tell you it's the best practice.
MR . WEISS: Also , if they come to us in
advance , we would have recommended that they
include the certification because it is the bes t
practice.
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So t he decision he was ta k ing is very
typital of what every eity does .
MS . TREVAR THEN: The problem is it 's not
legally required.
COUNCILMAN ALBAUM: How many peti t ions,·by
the w·ay, approxima t ely? Ten percent?
COUNC I LWOMAN COHEN : It must be a min i mum
of ten percent of the populati on .
MS. TREVARTHEN : You have 1732 reg i ste r ed
voters. So they needed 174. For the two
questions, they both were we l l in excess of t hat .
One was like 240 and the other was a l ittle bit
l ess before they were culled .
COUNCILWOMAN CO HEN : Even if they had been
culled, they had the 174 people .
MAYOR GROISMA N : Just to move to
practicality · __
MS. TREVARTHEN : Right .
MAYOR GROISMAN : --the only one of these
quest i ons that have any significance any more ,
most likely for the people who brought the
pe t itions , is the second one because of the
development, because of the purpose . We all k now
the pu r pose o f these pet itions was related to the
Bal Harbou r Shops expansion . One way or the
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other , it was to affect that one way or the other .
Now that that expansion doesn 't include t he sale,
the proposal doesn 't include the sale or transfer
of any village property, the first one, most
like l y, they we wouldn 't be pursuing --
MR. WEISS: For the current day .
MAYOR GROISMAN: for the current , for
right now .
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : For the short term,
yes.
MAYOR GROISMAN: So the one that matters
more for righ t now is t he second question.
MS. TREVARTHEN: Although the litigation is
about bot h . I would not prejudge the plaintiffs
on that.
MR. GONZALEZ: The other big issue is on
the procedural, proceed to county and put them on
the ballot.
MS . T REVARTHEN: That i s the relief , send
it to t he coun t y is what it says .
MR. GONZALEZ : The i ssue of whether Sect i on
82 is or is no t legal pursuant to the state
statute is rio t a question that has been discussed.
MAYOR GROISMAN: It should be on that .
MS. TREVARTHEN: The p l aintiffs take the
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position that the clerk 's action is mi n i sterial
and they argue in their comp l aint, t h ere is an
allegation in t h e prayer for rel ief tha t says if
the vil l age thin ks that any of those questions a re
improper , then it should seek declarato r y relief .
Th at is their petition .
MR. WEISS : Correct me if I am wrong , Ma t t.
We got an extens i on of time so we could have the
executive session.
MR. MANDE L : Tha t i s r i ght .
MR . WEISS: We haven 't filed a res ponse .
MR. MANDEL : The response was due today .
We got a week extension .
J.C . Planas is seek i ng, pursuant to the
statute, and action for d e clarat ory relief under
Chapter 86. T h at statu te provides that he can set
this for an expedited hearing . So he i s next week
seeking the ability to put i t on· an expedited
schedule.
It 's Judge Rodriguez in Miami . I had a dee
action that we bro u ght on behalf of the City of
North Miami in a matter we had last year. We
sought an expedited hearing . I think she put it
on , she gave us , i t was l i ke two , three months
o u t. She was able to do that . I don 't know how
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her schedu l e is , but that is how it was . She runs
a fairly busy docket .
These are issues of law we think . I don 't
think there is going to be a l ot of d i scovery,
alt hou gh J .C . Planas has hit us with some
harassin g type d i scovery requests that have rea l ly
noth i ng to do with the underlying substantive
issues or procedural issues in the case .
Mr: Mayor, as you all u ded to , the lawsui t
is a lot more than just· these i ssues . It's about
what you were talking about, and, clearly , the
discovery requests are directed towards that . So
we are going to , obviously , lodge the appropriate
objections on that .
MAYOR GROISMAN : They made a lot of
discove r y requests that is inconsistent with
gett ing an exped i ted hearing.
MR. MANDEL: Tha t is exactly what our
a rgument is going to be . We are going to kind of
put him in a box next week and bas i cally say ,
well , if you want an expedited hearing , these are
the is sues of l aw that you want to get to real
qu i ckly, you don 't need the discovery.
MR. WEISS: We are real l y j u mping the gun a
little because the counci l could dec i de --we are
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here to get direction from our c l ient whether we
are going to put him in a box, no t pu t him in a
box, object to their discovery, not object. You
are our clients . So we are here t o ge t your
d i rection on how you want us to deal with this
lawsuit that is pending.
MAYOR GROISMAN : That was where else my
quest i on was going to. My question was going to
when I said let 's get out of t he theoretica l and
into the pract i cal.
Practically speaking, the second ques t ion
is the one that is drivi ng this l itigat i on right
now . The question for council is it seems like we
have a good argument , a strong argument that the
whole second petition is precluded by Florida
statute. Is that right?
MR. WEISS: Yes.
MS. TREVARTHEN : We think so . So it l eaves
you wi t h two choices. Do you raise that now or do
you wait for somebody else to try to raise that .
MAYOR GROISMAN : We can eithe r raise it as
an affirmative defense.
MR. MANDEL : Or alterna t ively, there is
different ways of raising. There is ways you can
ra i se it as a motion to d i smiss because the relief
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they are seek i ng is mandamus , which you have to
establish as a clear legal right . Although , as
Richard and Susan al l uded to , they are saying that
the substantive defense to this is not
appropriate . They are makirig a challenge as to
the procedural aspect , how it was handled
procedurally in that in t hei r complaint what they
are saying is, yo u deal wi t h the substantive
fal ~acy , i f there is a fallacy , that you dea l wi th
it by the village bringing an ac t ion for
declarato r y relief or the developer can bring i t,
or , alternatively, we can raise i t as a motion to
dismiss.
That is kind of t he direction we want to
get from the council . We could raise it as a
mot i on to dismi ss, as part of a motion to dismiss
and they can make this whole dance about why i t i s
not , i t should be considered in t his lawsuit .
But a good example would be , we a~e saying
it 's illegal , you can 't do this. I f they were to
say, look , we want to put someth ing on the bal l ot
that bas i cally peop l e of a different race can 't
participate in certain activities, I mean , clearly 1
that is illegal . They are going to say , wel l ,
t h at has to go on the ba l lot. We can 't deal wi th
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that here and right now. So I think there is a
very good basis to raise t hat as part of the
motion as i t relates to Section 82.
We haven't gotten to 81. 82 is the only
one that we really have a substantive defense to.
MS. TREVARTHEN: The commercial expansion.
MR. WEISS: I want to be fair . You are
under no obligation to raise t h at. If the council
determines they want these petitions to go ahead ,
notwithstanding the fact that we have legal
concerns about one of them, the council can
direct --
MAYOR GROISMAN: Hold on. How can we if
there is a Florida statute that specifically says
we cannot ?
MR. WEISS: Because we are not obligated to
raise it.
MS. TREVARTHEN : And t he cases say.
MAYOR GROISMAN : I disagree with that .
MR . WEISS: There is an argument that J .C.
Planas will ma ke as to wha t that statute does say .
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: Can you te l l us that?
MR . WEISS: I don't know what it is.
MAYOR GROISMAN : He is going to come up
with some creative argument as to why i t doesn't,
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but is you look at the face of the statute --
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : You are saying it 's
absolute ly --
MR . WEISS : We are not saying it 's illegal .
We are saying --
COUNCI LWOMAN COHEN: If i t 's illegal .
MR . WEISS : We are saying that we f eel very
comfo rtable that that second pet ition vio l ates the
Flo rida statute .
COUNC ILWOMAN COHEN : Which -states exactly
what?
MR . MANDEL : I 'l l tell you . It 's right
here . 163 .3 1 67 (8) (a). It says an initiative or
referendum process in regard to any development
order is prohibited .
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : Development order
means specif i cally that . A deve l opment like
MR . MANDEL : It says any development order .
MS. TREVART HEN: This is a referendum and
this is a development order .
MR. GONZALEZ: Guys , you need t o look at it
beyond the i tem t hat is on your agenda next . Tha t
i s the shops .
On ce it 's in you r cha r te r , it 's in you r
charter and it remains there and every deve l opment
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item that comes before this council or any future
council will be bound to that issue . So don 't
look at it as just
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : But there is riot
like l y that expands 30 percent more tha n.
Thirty percent is --
MS . TREVARTHEN : Thirty percent .
MR . GONZALEZ : T hirty percent of the 40 ,000
is only 12.
MAYOR GROISMAN: So as far as direction
goes, let's get to direction.
Here is my position, and then maybe if you
guys are ready , let's go around the table and
everybody can state their position and as k
questions .
Hopefully, at the end of your questions ,
state your position and then we will see where we
are at as far t h e elective people.
With regards to the second pe t ition, I
think it 's clear from day one when this thing came
in that it runs afou l of the Florida statute. It
says you can 't have any of these t ypes of
referendums related to development . That
infringes on what we do as a council . So I think
we have to take the shortest route to victory,
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quote/unquote , in t he laws 0it . Because if not , we
are going to be spending money and time and
headaches as we have with every other lawsu it . I
think the quickest way, you guys are the lawyers,
but is a motion to dismiss. Of course, they can
say, t hey can put in their complaint all they
want . You can't bring this up un l ess it 's a dee
action, but they don't get to tell you wha t
motions you get to file. If it prec l udes, if .it
makes their complaint moot, that is sort of the
d~finition of failure to state a c l aim. That is
why I thin k we should move to dismiss the second
one.
As to the first one, we should answer it .
You just answer the complaint and see what
happens. If the second once gets dismiss ed, the
funding is going to go away. They are not going
to chase after the first one , I don't think.
MR. GONZALEZ: Is this one lawsuit or two
lawsuits?
MAYOR GROISMAN: One lawsuit.
MS. TREVARTHE N : One lawsuit.
MR. MANDEL : It 's one lawsuit .
MR. GONZALEZ: Wou l d a judge bifurcate
these?
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MAYOR GROISMAN: You can move to dismiss.
You move to dismiss one count.
MR. MANDE L: Well, actually, it 's
interes ting. They are kind of commingled together
and they did that, I think, on purpose.
MAYOR GROISMAN: Who is the judge you said?
MR. MANDEL : Rosa Rodriguez.
MAYOR GROISMAN: Oh, Rosa. Rod riguez .
MR . MANDEL: She is a very good judge.
COUNCILMAN ALBAUM : So you go for a
d i smissa l on one, but they are commingled.
COUNCILWOMAN COH EN : Her name is Rodriguez?
MR. MANDEL : Yes.
MAYOR GROISMAN: I think not legally, but
practically it might because if the second part is
not done on a motion to dismiss.
MR. WEISS: So you think we should
basically defend the lawsuit, try to get the
lawsuit dismissed on both, with respect to both
petit ions? That is what you want us to do?
MAYOR GRO I SMAN: Yes.
MR . WEISS: Okay .
COUNCILMAN FREIMARK: I have a bifurcated
view and that is as it re l ates t o the second part;
the commercial use, I clearly agree. I think that
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we shou l d defend that and seek dismissa l.
As it relates to the f i rst part , I think
that we shou l d try to negotiate some form of a
sett l ement on that with them because I think from
the council 's perspective , I wou l dn 't want be in a
position of fighting everything that is corning .
The fir~t one , if we are ab l e to get to a
settlement , put it o~t to a vote . We ta l ked about
it . We ta l ked about putting thi ngs out for voters
to decide . I would put the first one to a vote .
The second one , I wou l d move to dismiss
because I do think as fiduciary stewards , I think
i t is complete l y counterintuitive to a llo w that
one to go forward predicated on the reading of the
statute .
MAYOR GROISMAN : I don 't d i sagree wi th
that .
ASSISTANT MAYO R SALVE R: I don 't know . I
don 't rea l ly have anything to say .
COUNCILMAN ALBAUM : Let me ask a question .
Cou l d the judge dismiss the second one and
not the first one? Because you said they were
sort of comming l ed in . Is that possible or we
don 't know?
MR. MANDEL : Yes , that is possib l e . What
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she could probab l y do is she could if I was the·
judge and I t r ied this as a j u dge , you could
dismiss the whole th ing withou t prejudice and just
say replead i t as it relates to Section 81 .
MAYOR GROISMAN : Make them redraf t it , pull
out the o t her one.
MR. MANDE L : Right.
COUN.CILMAN ALBA UM: T think I go fo r
dismissa l on the whole t hing , that i s my opinion .
What is the downside?
I f we go for a dismissal and the j udge
doesn 't , then we go forward .
MS . TREVARTHEN: One downside is we are
litigating the case . We are fighting in court , we
are spending money .
COUNCI LMAN ALBAUM: If we don 't dismi ss ,
then we are there anyway.
COUNCILMAN FREIMARK: I think the downside
of the op t ics t o some extent, the optics on the
first one, why are we fighting everything that the
electorate wants . The first one is put it to a
vote. We said we s h ou l d put things to a vote and
let t h e voters decide whethe r they want it t o be
50 pe r cent or 60 percent, al l of us , as it relates
to the sale of village property . Why be i n the
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press fighting everything that is corn~ng to us.
MAYOR GROISMAN: I actually don 't disagree
with what you are saying .
COUNCILMAN ALBAUM: I don't either.
MAYOR GROISMAN : You are not saying
different things because from what the lawyer said
before --please correct me , guys. There 's three
of you .
You are saying you don't see a .basis
anyway, a good faith basis to move to d ismiss the
first petition , as to the first petition.
MS . TREVARTHEN : We thin k it 's far less
clear .
MR. MANDEL: We don't have a solid
statutory basis.
MAYOR GROISMAN: That is better as an
affirmative defense to deal with it l ater . You
are saying move to dismiss, it is cons i stent with
what.they are saying, move to dismiss it as to
number two .
COUNCILMAN ALBAUM: Exactly .
MAYOR GROISMAN: Okay . We are on the same
page .
With regards to negot ia ting , the only thing
with that, what I would just recommend is let's
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move to dismi ss the second one , and then see what
happens .
COUNCILMAN F REIMARK : I l eave i t to you
guys , quite frankly .
COUNCILWOMAN COHE N : I have a question .
COU NCILMAN FREIMAR K: The strategy on that .
COUNC I LWOMAN COHE N: This initiative or
referendum in regard on an y deve l o p me nt o rde r ,
so --
MR . WEISS : A development order would be a
deve l opment -- a development order when it is
def i ned in the statute is very , very broad .
MR . GONZALEZ : It 's not just a deve l opment
agreement .
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : They could, I suppose
t hey cou l d say they are not do i ng it in r ega r ds to
any specifi c ' development .
MAYOR GROISMAN : Any development .
MS . TREVARTHEN : The wording of their
ques t ion i s any proposed development plan for an
existing commerci a l prope r ty . Any development
order inc l udes , for e x ample , a building permit , a
s i ngle pe r mit . There is no way that you could
expand a commercial prope r ty mo r e than 30 pe r cent
without at least one building permit . So it will
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P age 36
be a development order . That i s why I fee l pretty
confident that the sta t u te app l ies .
.COUNC ILWOMAN COHEN: These people created
it or , yes , created an initiative that is rea l ly
a --
MS. TREVARTHEN: A cha r ter amendment tha t
calls for a referendum .
MR. GONZALEZ : That they believe is
i l legal .
MS . TREVAR THE N : That we be lieve is i l legal
under t he F l o rida sta t ute .
MAYOR .GRO I SMAN : Patricia, when you work as
a l awyer, you see lots and l ots of cases that are
contrary t o t he law.
COUNC ILWOMAN COHE N : I 'm try i ng to
understand. How cou l d he have interpreted this?
MAYOR GROISMAN : You know what? You don 't
know what h appen ed in p ri vate conversat i on . They
may be we l l aware that it violates and t h e lawyer
told them i t . He said , loo k , l et 's g ive it a shot
a nd see wha t happens. You don 't know what
happened i n closed doors . Lawyers will do that .
MR . WEISS : I f i t deals wi th t his area ,
it 's pretty hard to imag i ne becau se every l awyer,
mu ni c i pa l lawyer is aware of that statute . It 's
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not some --
MAYOR GROISMAN : He 's a good l ower . He
must have fo l d them , let 's take a shot , let 's see
what happens , it 's good for politics . You push
the buttons and then we see what happens .
MR. MANDEL : Sometimes it doesn 't matter
the va l idity of the claims ._ T hey just do it to
lodge cert a i n th ings for l everage p ur poses , fo r
wh ateve r. It 's not the proper use of litigation
i n lawsuits , but there are lots of lawyers, as the
mayor alluded to , that use the law for different
purposes .
COUNCILMAN ALBAUM : What would be our
f i rs t
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: I lived it f i rsthand.
COUNCILMAN ALBAUM : What would be our first
glimpse , if litigation goes on t his , costwise?
Anybody have any ideas what this thing could cost?
MR. MAN DEL : That is a good question.
COUNCILMAN ALBAUM: Just a ballpark .
MR . MANDEL : They have issued a lot of
different discovery , a lot of voluminous discovery
reques t s that we have to object to . We have to
deal wi t h that .
ASSISTANT MAYOR SALVER : What does t hat
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entail if I may ask?
MR . MANDEL : I d i dn 't bring t he cop i es.
MS . TREVARTHEN : There are lots requests
for communications with this and that and the
other person that don 't real l y seem very relevant ,
but there is Dwight 's commun i ca t ions w.ith the
supervisor of elect i on s that mi gh t be relevant.
I th i nk anything Matt says is going t o be
governed by can we say success fu lly, look , t hose
things are off po i nt , i f we can get r id of the
discovery and really focus on the legal quest i on.
MR . MANDEL : We are working on that . One
of th e th i ngs we are saying i s that we are going
to t r y to get h i m to walk away from t hat. If he
wants a n expedited hearing , he can 't at the same
time say , I need all this d i scovery .
MR . GONZALEZ : I s it in t h e na t ure of
e -mails or something like that?
MR . MANDEL :· In t h e nature of e-mails , in
the nature o f just b asica l ly , it 's everything
unde r t he s u n . I agree , but t h e di f fe r ence is
whe n you do a public records request , you h ave to
pay for it i n a d va n ce . As part of litigation , we
have discovery obligations doing it . Under the
public records , we do have certain things ,
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protection.
MAYOR GROISMAN: They have to pay for it.
MS. TREVARTHEN: And the rules of
discovery.
MR. MANDEL : The amount of documents that
they are seeking, it would be very costly from a
public records standpoint. So they are trying to
do i t that way. We are going to object.
To get to your point , f i le a motion to
dismi ss. You know, I think he wants to hear this
on an expedited manner . I mean, very bal l park
without knowing.
COUNCILMAN ALBAUM: The low and the high .
MR . MANDEL : What is our hourly rate ?
MS . TREVARTHEN : Like 225.
MR . MANDEL : .I mean, this could be
20 hours , this could be 30 hours, this could be
40 hours . It depends.
COUNCILMA N ALBAU M: This isn't a six figure
case?
MR . MANDEL : No, no, no. And there is not
damages in this case.
MR. WEISS : From our point of vi e w, th i s is
a pure legal ·case. The issue , ther e i s two
issues . One issue is d id the Dade. County
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requirements apply or did they not apply.
MS . TREVARTHEN: Procedurally.
MR . WEISS: Procedurally, yes or no .
Then on the other one is does the proposed
petition, proposed charter change violate the
Flo r ida statute . From our point of view , it
doesn't matter what anybody said or anybody did or
ca ll or th is or that. They are clear lega l
questions. So that this could be li tigated and we
could get an answer very economica l ly, but it
depends upon, we don't feel t he need t o have
discovery unless something comes up, but I don 't
think this is --
COUNCI LMAN ALBAUM: It's our liability.
MAYOR GROISMAN: We can use the discovery
process to box them in a lit tle bit to what thei r
claims are. Because the complaint doesn't allege
bad faith, right? It doesn't allege fraud. It
just alleges he was wrong on the law.
MR. MANDEL: That is correct. I t .jus t say_s
t hat he didn 't follow his ministerial functions.
They are seek i ng solely for him to use ministerial
functions, don't pay attention to anything else
substantive .
MAYOR GROISMAN: What he says that Joe
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Smith or whoever is irrelevant here .
MS. TREVARTHEN: Comp l etely, completely.
MAYOR GROISMAN: Okay .
ASSIS.TANT MAYOR SALVER: I have a question ,
though. Since like the shops are somewhat
affected by this, is there any chance no matter
what we do, do we file something?
MR. WEISS: Here is my gut leve l on th e
shops speaking with their lawyers. I think that
the shops from the ir point of view , I am not
saying that it 's right or wrong, but from their
point of view they think they took a big step in
dismissing all of these lawsuits and being done
with it.
I think that the shops is very happy not to
be in any litigation involving the village. I
think they would under normal circumstances, I
would think they would come and defend their turf ,
but I th in k in this particular case , I just don 't
see them getting --they could, but just comments
that they have made along t he way , which is, we
don 't want to be seen as litigating with the
village or being invo lved in lit i gat ion. My gut
is tha t if they a re comfortable, I know that t hey
are comfortable with our firm, that they will be
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comfortable, but who knows .
MAYOR GROISMAN: The outcome t hat Jeff
recommended, you know, if it works out that way is
a great ou t come because if we can get the second
one dismissed because it's i l legal, right? And
that is some t hing the judge can decide just i n a
hearing. It 's just l aw. There is no facts in it,
righ t? All that i s le ft is the first one:
Then we can, at that point, have a
discussion. with them and maybe .we ha ve another
roundtable l ike this and we decide, okay, let 's
just agree to send that to Dade County and we wil l
have a vote on it . If people want it to be 60
percent , so be it.
ASSISTANT MAYOR SALVER: At that point, the
shops might
MAYOR GROISMAN: But they might not even
care any more because
MR . GONZALEZ : They are not buying.
MR . MANDEL: Or you can do that now a nd
just tack a second.
MS . TREVARTHEN : That is the question.
MR . MANDEL: That i s kind of why we really
n eed to have this d iscussion . Because if that i s
a point that you want to just take off t he table
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now .
MR. GONZALEZ : I think stra t egically it's a
statute issue, right?
COUNCILMAN FREIMARK: I agree with that.
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: Richard, if I were an
attorney , I would take the lead on this. I have
to lend credence to what you are saying. To me ,
this is i llogical t h at somebody should do
something like this . I can 't even wrap my head
around it , really . So to me there is someth i ng
more .
MAYOR GROISMAN: Patricia , the suit they
filed aga i nst you, you thought was baseless,
right?
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: They were baseless.
The proof is --
MAYOR GROISMAN : Whether they were or
weren 't , I 'm not look ing i nto that. We don't want
to lose the privi lege of this meeting . I am just
saying so you understand.
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : We are allowed to
comment .
MAYOR GROISMAN: I know , but what I am
saying is you thought that was base less. They
still fi l ed it , right? So lawsuits that are
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baseless are filed all the time . That is the only
point .
MR . WEISS : We are going to file a mot i on
to dismiss on both of them . If the motion to
dismiss on the procedural one , the first one is
denied , then we wil l come bac k to you and , you
know , get· some more di r ect i o n.
MR. GONZA L E Z : Clarify that again .
MS . TREVARTHEN : If q uestion 81 is not
dismissed , the n we wi l l come back for f u rther
MAYOR GROISMAN : 82 .
MS . TREVARTHEN : 81 .
MAYOR GRO I SMAN: The first one?
MS . TREVARTHEN : The portion to vote on the
sa l e of village proper t y , if that one is no t
d i sm i ssed .
MAYO R GROISMAN : We are not mov i ng to
dismiss that one .
CO UNCILMA N ALBAUM : We are dismiss i ng the
secon d one .
MR . GONZALEZ : You e ither move to dismiss
on grounds o f the stat e st a tute .
MAYOR GRO I S MAN : Wh ich is 82 .
MR. GONZALEZ : And then if you fail on
that .
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MS. TREVARTHEN: We are just saying move to
dismiss both.
MR. WEISS: Wha t is the direction on the
other one?
MAYOR GROISMAN: Just answer.
MR . MANDEL : Hold on. I don't think we
need to make t ha t decision because t he way J.C.
has commingled everything, we file a motion to
dismiss and just say that at l east part of this
thing is illegal . I mean, we don't have to
answer . We then get the motion resolved as it
relates to 82, get d irection from the court. The
court can throw out 82 or could force us to answer
as it relates to 81 and 82 . Then we come back.
If they throw out 82 , we just have to
answer 81, come back or not, but. we don't have to
make t hat dec i sion to answer.
Le t 's just file the .motion t o dismi ss. We
will pu t our best arguments, t he most credible
arguments as it relates to 82, and we don't have
to answer given that it is al l conglomerate i nto
one.
MR. WEISS: By the way, just for the
record, I want to say tha t I really feel l ike
Dwight did his leve l best to do the right th ing
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here and felt like he was doing his job very
conscientiously and the fact that , you know ,
there 's different legal opinions, I don 't really
think is --
MR . GONZALEZ : He reco9nized either way it
would have ended up in litigation .
MR ; WE I SS : He is a standu p guy . He made a
decision here and whethe r you agre e with it or
disagree with it, he's a standup guy and d i d h i s
job .
CO UNCILWOMAN COHEN: Okay . So my othe r
ques t ion is on --oh, my God --talking abou t who
did their job . Okay .
MS. TREVARTHEN : Okay?
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: I am fine.
MAYOR GROISMAN : Any more comments from
coun c i l?
MR . GONZALEZ : You can't find it?
MS. TREVARTHEN : If you think of something
else.
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : I t was about --I had
one --what were we talking about? I had a
question .
COUNCILMAN ALBAUM: About Dw ight ?
COUNCI LWOMAN COHEN : The mo tion to dismiss .
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MS . TREVARTHEN : Dwight did his bes t job .
If you think of someth i ng else , call me .
COUNCILWOMAN CO HE N : I can 't believe it .
What we r e we talking about ? Can you remi nd me?
MR . GO NZA LEZ : Fi l ed something that was
coun ter to the s t a t e statute .
COUNCI LWOMA N COHE N: Oh , no . The fact of
t h is , I mean , if this is in litigation, do we ne e d
to s l ow d ow n what we ar e p r ocee d i ng as f a r a s
review i ng the developmen t agreement and all this
stuff? Would it throw a curb ba l l? Would it
force us to give it a chance to be resolved before
we continue? Otherw i se , it 's a slap i n the f ace .
It 's a blatant slap i n the face .
MAYOR GROISMAN : What is a slap in the
face? They submi tted a petition that violates
Florida statute . What is the s l ap in the face?
COUNCILWOMAN CO HEN : In case they rule in
their favor . I don 't know . We wouldn 't be i n
litigation if it was a hundred percent .
MAYOR GROIS MAN : They could run to the
judge tomorrow and get an emergency hearing i f
they want .
COUNC I LWOMA N COHEN: Th at is why I 'm
bring i ng i t u p. I a m no t a n a ttorn ey .
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MAYOR GROISMAN: You guys can answer. We
are not under any obligation to curb anything we
are doing. The judge can te ll us what to do and
the judge can order us to do whatever she wants .
MS. TREVARTHE N~ The petitions have not ye t
been certified . So that is what starts the clock
for going to the ballot . Even then , it wouldn 't
become ef fec ti ve until after t he vote .
MR . GONZALEZ : I think what Patricia is
asking is , there i s a pending application for the
expansion t h a t may be affect ed by this i f
ultimately a vote is affirmative .
MS . TREVARTHEN : That is true .
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : We need to take that
i nto consideration.
MS .-TREVAR T HE N : Actua l l y , the one that
dates back to November is only about sale of
vi l lage property . No one is proposing to sell
village p r operty .
MR. GONZALEZ: I thought bot h of them were
retroactive .
MS. TREVARTHEN : No, it 's not .
MR. I'1ANDEL : They are not seeking
injunctive relief as it relates to --
MS . TREVARTHEN : Yes , it 's jus t t he sa l e .
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The expansion is not retroactive.
MR . WEISS: The other one, it would not
take effect until the petition is certified, and
found valid, t he voters vote . So that could be by
the t ime t hat gets done , even if we just said,
okay, let 's put it on the ballot now , it's going
to be months and months before that even gets to
the vote, even if it is approved.
MR. MANDEL: And they are not seeking
in junctive relief to prevent the city from
continuing to operate.
MR. GONZA LEZ: They could.
MAYOR GROISMAN: They could go in for a
motion .
MR. MANDEL: That is correct, but right how
as pled , what we are dealing with right now is the
only injunctive relief they ar~ seeking is
ordering and enjoining the clerk from destroying
any petit i on, insur i ng they are $ecured, not
tampe r ed with by the village hall, which we agreed
to do because under 119 we can't destroy.
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: I'm sorry, b u t you
guys speak l i ke we are a l l attorneys.
MR. MANDEL: I'm sorry. Under t h e public
records law, we can 't destroy .
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COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: Public records I got .
I got what I got. I can probably teach a 101,
college 101 course on that one.
I am talking about injunct ive relief .
MS. TREVARTHEN: The court saying do
something or don't do somethin g is injunctive
relief as opposed to award in g damages .
MR. GONZALEZ : So the j udge could stop it.
MAYOR GROISMAN : If the judge issues an
in junction to the v illage saying , don 't do th i s,
that is cal l ed an i njunction.
MR . MANDEL: Or enjoining . Enjoin i ng i s
another word for i njunction .
COUNCILWOMAN COH EN : I don't get where the
word relief comes from.
ASSISTANT MAYOR SALVER: I have a quest ion .
For the f irst, for Section 81 , is this
exposing kind of like a flaw in our charter, in
our ordinances that should be corrected?
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: As usual , not enough
clarity .
MR . WEISS: Honestly, I feel, we feel that
our code is clear; The se secti on& don't apply.
If you wanted to add a section t hat dealt with how
charter amendments are done, you could, but most
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city codes, a lot of city codes don't have
sections that deal with charters because it 's
dealt under the Dade County.
ASSISTANT MAYOR SALVER: And Dade County i s
the way that Dwight --
MS. TREVARTHEN: Well, there 's two parts of
Dade County . There is the Dade County .charter
that applies to municipal charter amendments that
says fo llow your own rules and here is the time
frame one~. the petitions are certified, just how
quickl y you get on the ballot . That is a ll it
says .
Then for a question that is a county
question, l ike you are changing county law, there
is all the details abou t t he petition circulator
and tons of detai l s .
MR. GONZALEZ: Susan mentioned following
your own ru l es.
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: Exact l y , there are no
rules.
MS . TREVARTHEN : Which means there isn't a
l egal basis to sanction .
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: The question is
answe r ed.
MS . TREVARTHEN : We could write them . We
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could write them.
MAYOR GROISMAN: Yes, we could write t hem .
MR. WEISS : Yes, we could write them .
ASSISTANT MAYOR SALVER: Are we allowed to
discuss it here?
MAYOR GRO IS MAN : Tied into this litigat i on ,
we shou ldn 't do it whi l e this litigat ion is
penoing.
MR. WEI SS: Also, I made a recommendation
for years that our code needs to be gone through.
Counc i l never wanted to do it.
COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: Eve r since I have been
on the council , every single time . I th i nk we
need to address it .
MAYOR GROISMAN : I agree, but I think we
are getting off topic.
I'm now reopening the meeting. Nobody is
h ere , but t he attorney/client session ha s now been
terminated. It's open to the pub lic who i s now
invited to return for any further proceed ings or
matters of which there are none.
Good night .
(Thereupon , t he proceedings were concluded
at 7:55 p.m.)
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Page 53
C E R T I F I C A T E
I, Mary G. Stephenson, FPR, State of Florida at
Large, certify that I was authorized to and did
stenographically report the forego i ng proceedings and
that the transcript is a true and complete record of my
itenographic notes.
Dated t his 20th day of March, 20 17 .
Mary G. Stephenson, FPR
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activities 26:23 30 6:3 15:6 29:5
actual 11 :24 35 :Z 4 39 : 17 add 10:21 20: 11
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amendments 9:20
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amount 6:4 12:13
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animals 11 :4,5
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answer 30:14_,15
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anybody 37:18
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declaratory 23 :5 38:24 39:4 40:12 early 16:12
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