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HomeMy Public PortalAbout2017-03-07 AttorneyClient In The Matter Of Lynne Bloch Mullen CASE 2017-003330CA01_271 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ORIGINAL BAL HARBOUR VILLAGE ATTORNEY/CLIENT SESSION IN THE MATTER OF LYNNE BLOCH MULLEN, et al v . BAL HARBOUR VILLAGE, et al CASE NUMBER: 2017-003330 CA 01(27) Page 1 BAL HARBOUR VILLAGE HALL 655 96th STREET BAL HARBOUR, FLO RI DA 33154 TUESDAY, MARCH 7, 2017 7:10 p.m. -7:55 p.m. Ta ken before Mary G. Stephenson, FPR, No tary Public for the State of Florida Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 5 16 17 1 8 19 20 2 1 22 23 24 25 APPEARANCES: COUNCILMEM BERS: GABRIEL GROISMAN , MAYOR SETH E . SALVER, ASSISTANT MAYOR DAVID ALBAUM, COUNCILMAN PATRICIA CO HE N, COUNCILWOMAN JEFFREY FREIMARK , COUNCILMAN VILLAGE MANAGER: JORGE M. GONZALEZ VI LLAGE ATTORNEY : WEISS SEROTA HELFMAN COLE & BIERMAN , P.L . BY : RICHARD J AY WEISS , ESQ. VILLAGE CLERK: SUSAN L. TREV ARTHEN, ESQ. MATTHEW MANDEL , ESQ . DWIGHT S. DA NI E Page 2 (Present during public sess ion only .) Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 .5 6 7 8 9 1 0 11 12 1 3 14 15 16 1 7 18 19 20 '21 22 2 .3 24 25 Page 3 Thereupon, the following proceedings were had: 800-726-7007 MAYOR GROISMAN : Good evening , ladies and gentlemen . I 'm calling this mee t ing to order . Dwight, do you want to call .the roll? MR. DANIE: Yes . Roll call . Mayor Groisman. MAYOR GROISMAN: Here. MR. DANIE: Assistant Mayor Salver. ASSISTAN T MAYOR SALVER : Here . MR . DANIE : Coun ci l man Albaum. COUNC I LMAN ALBAUM : Here . MR. DANIE : Councilwoman Cohen. COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : Here. MR. DANIE : Counci l man Freimark. COUNCILMAN FREIMARK : He.re . MR . DANIE : We h ave a quorum. MAYOR GROISMAN : Thank you . (Thereupon , Mr . Danie left the room.) MAYOR GROISMAN: The time is now 7:10. We are about to hav~ an attorney/c l ient session in accor dance with Florida S t atute 286.011 regarding the litigation styled Lynn Bloch Mullen , et al· versus Bal Harbour Village , et al, Case Number 2017 -003330 CA 27 . The session is est imated to last one half Veritext Legal So luti ons 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 1 1 2 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 4 25 800-726-700 7 Page 4 hour. I t says one hour here . COU NC I LMAN ALBAUM : Fifty percent . I l i ke that already. MAYOR GROISMAN : The following people will be in a ttendance at this meeting: Myself , Assis t ant Mayor Salver , Councilma n Freimark , Councilman Albaum, Coun c i lwoman Cohen , Vi llage Manager Go nzalez , Vill age At torneys Richard Weiss, Susan Tre iarthen , and Matt he w Mandel . T h ese p roceed i ngs will be recorded by a certi fie d court reporter and ,. at the conclusion of all l i tigation discussion, the t r anscri pt will be made part of the pub l ic record . All those individua l s who I have not named shoul d leave , but there is n obody h ere , so we are going t o start the meeting . MR . WEISS : By way of introduction , I want to introduce Matt Mandel as the head of our litigation department . He is handling the lawsu i t that Susan wil l go over . MS . TREVARTHEN: Okay . Thank yo u , Mr . Mayor . COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : Why is Mr . Serota not invo l ved? MR . WEISS : Why Mr . Serota? Matt is a Veritext Le gal S olutions 305 -376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 12 13 14 1 5 1 6 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 5 better lawyer. MR . GON ZALEZ : Make sure you include th a t in the r ecord. COUNCILMAN ALBAUM: Educate him . MS. TREVAR THE N: Let me give you a brief background . I t hin k most of you are familiar with the facts here, but just to reorient us t o wh a t happe ned. T raditiona lly, t he village people who circu la t e a petition have come to the v i l lage first and got t en input on how to handle the format, but in this case t he committee known as Good Government For Bal Harbour circulated petitions las t November and they did not come to us first to r eview the form of the petitions . The clerk received a fo l der full of the signed pe t itions that had two questions . The first question amended Section 81 o f the v il lage charter by r equiring from November 1 st , 2016 forward the margin of approval for votes to sell village property woul d be increased f rom a simple majority to 60 percent . That was S ect i on 81. The other quest i on created a new section of our c ha rter, which would bi Section 82 . Any Veritext Legal Solutions 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1 4 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 6 proposed development plan for an existing commercial property t h at increases the existing commercial retai l space by more than 30 percent of the current amount of the retail space must be submitted for approval to the electors of Bal Harbour Village and approved by a vote of at least 60 percent o f the village electors voting on such referendum . So we have an i ncrease in the voting marg i n on the sale of property and we have this referendum on commercial expansions. MR . GONZALEZ : Two separate. MAYOR GRO I SMAN : Can I ask for a clarification? On t he first one, t hou gh , to sell village property, the only t hing we vote on is if it is in the best interest anyway and then it goes into MR. GONZALEZ : What they are trying MS . T REVARTHEN: This is the voter 's margin . MAYOR GROISMAN : On bo t h of them ar e the voter 's marg in . MS . TREVARTHEN : On the first one, righ t now it 's just a simple majority . They would change i t to 60 percent and it would go back to Veritext Legal So lutio ns 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 7 November of 2016. MAYOR GROISMAN: The second one, they are trying to MS. TREVARTHEN: It 's a whole new thing. MAYOR GROISMAN: A new requirement. A whole new vote. MS . TREVARTHEN: That if you have commercial expansion,. you have to go to the voters and you need 60 percent of the voters. COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: I don't unde rstand the part about going back . MS. TREVARTHEN: It's written to be retroact ive . So this change in the voting margin on the sale of village property says going back to November of 2016, any action to sell village property. MR . GONZALEZ: Any sale that might occur after November of 2016 . COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : Oh. Is that when they filed the lawsuit? MS . TREVART HEN: Thi s is just the question they wrote . This is what they asked our voters to sign pe tit ions to. MAYOR GROISMAN: If we sold the property on November 1 7th , this was passed seven months later, Veritext Legal So lutioris 305 -376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 8 what would happen? MS . TREVARTHEN: They would --ostensibly, they would try· to enforce it retroactively, but I understand what you are saying in terms of the difficulties they would face . So they came to the village and they said, look , we are governed by state statute . We met all the r equirements. Please process our petitions . So as th e village clerk, Dwight Danie has the responsibil ity to hand l e this . He serves not only as your clerk, but also as the municipal election offici al , as you know as candidates dealing with him . So he reviewed the petitions and first identified that there were two versions o f this Section 82 question and he consulted with us and we said that he should ask the committee 's representative wha t to do. Ultimately , they came in and th ey sorted them out and they chose the version of the question they wanted and got rid of the second version of that question. A question a rose during this process of what the proper rules were to apply to these peti tions. We had opinions from the committee 's Veritext Legal Solutions 305 -3 76-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 9 representative who is J.C. Planas, who argued the county rules and village charter ru l es did not apply . He said just the Florida statute applied , which did not require things like the affidavit of th e pe tition .circulated . COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: Which charter speaks to th is? I was under the impr es sion the village charter d i dn 't . MS. TREVARTHEN: J.C . Planas made the argument that the vil l age charter provisions don 't apply . But we also got an argument from the shops' attorney to the contrary, that said that the village charter provisions might app l y. COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : So t he vi l lage charter does speak to this? MS . TREVARTHEN : What the village charter says is it sets out a series of rules that apply for initiatives and referendum 6f ordinances . It is silent on the top i c of charter amendments. But we had two attorneys who gave us opinions . One saying it would apply. The other said it would not ·apply . COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : if it doesn't speak to it? Susan, what can apply It doesn 't speak to Veritext Legal Solutions 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 1 0 it, so it doesn 't apply. MS. TREVARTHEN: That is an i nterpretation of the county charter . When we spoke with Mr. Danie , we gave t he opinion t hat we felt MR. GONZALEZ : Not speaking on behalf, b u t I know you mentioned something about the doc u ment that was provided, the petition, er r oneously maybe, but it says initia tiv e pe t ition on it, which, I guess, our code does speak to, even though it 's an initiative . MS. TREVAR THEN : I t 's a confusing f orm . In the upper right hand corner , it says charter amendment, and then in the middle it says init iat ive petition . MAYOR GROISMAN : The t i t le in big says initiative petition. MS. TREVARTHEN : Right . MAYOR GRO I SMAN : Which wou l d indi cate t hat Bal Harbour --t hat goes right in t o our code . MR . WEISS : J u s t so you know, a n i nitia t ive pe t it i on is a petition where people seek to add things to the village code . A referendum is where th ey seek to remove something . MS. TR EVARTHEN : And t hat i s clearly Veritext Legal Solutions 305 -376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 11 1 2 1 3 14 15 16 1 7 1 8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 11 defined in our charter , that it wo rks that way . MR . WEISS: This is a different process , which is t h ey seek to amend our charter . They are different animals . They sound the same, b u t they are different animals . COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : You mean both of t ho se initia tives or petitions or whatever they did, they are differe nt fr om each other . Is that wha t yo u are saying? MR . GONZA LEZ: You have two r eferendu m quest i ons, but they are the same styl e . MS~ TREVARTHEN: No. The se are two charter amendments. MR. GONZALEZ: Right . So each one o f them amends the charter . MS. TREVARTHEN : These are t wo suggestions to change our charte r . MR . GONZALEZ: Section 81 and Section 82 . MS. TRE VARTHEN : What our charter in i t already says is if you are go i ng to have · ini tiatives and referenda about ordinances , not about cha rter amendments, these a re the rules that apply. The actual peti t ion t hat was circula t ed was confusing b ecause it had two differen t names on Yeritext Legal Solutions 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2 1 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 12 it, but in i ts substance i t was ac t ing to amend our charter . Also , you need 20 percent votes to do the initiative and referendum on t he ordinance . You only need the ten percent on the ch~rter amendm~n t . So there are meaningful distinctions between the two . MAYOR GROISMAN : Ca n you step back a little bit and g i ve us a perspect i ve? If all the forma l ities were done correctly, assume just arguendo, what would be t h e effect of co llect i ng X amount signatures , wh atever they co l lected , asking us to implement these new regulations? Are we obl i gated under our code to accept those? Peop l e can j ust petit i on us to do anything? Do we vote on it? How does t ha t work? This is al l assuming they did the formal i ties correct l y. MS. TREVARTHEN : If al l the formalities were correct, what would happen is that the pe titions would be shipped o f f to t h e county e l ections departmen t , and they would move forward t o be placed on the ballot if al l of the Veritext Legal Solutions 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 12 1 3 14 15 1 6 17 18 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-72 6-7007 Page 13 procedural requirements were met . However, I haven 't gotten to another issue . MAYOR GROISMAN: So what would be placed? Those ques t ions , those same questions that were on the petition would then go on to a ballot? MS. TREVARTHEN: So 8 1 and 82 . MR. GONZA L EZ: You don 't have the right to change i t . MS. TREVARTHEN : You can 't rewrite i t . MAYOR GROISMAN: Just to put it on the bal l ot , right? MR . WEISS : The county 's function i s , according to i nstructions from the village, i s to basical l y count signatures . CO UNCILMA N FREIMARK : And val ida te . MR. WEISS : And validate the s i gnatures t o make sure t ha t t hey are -- MAYOR GROISMAN: There i s also a big is sue with regards to the signatures that were given , right? There are multiple signatures. MS . TREVARTHEN : The county would look ~t that when they wou ld count the petitions . MAYOR GROISMAN : I didn 't mean to cut you off . I jus t lost the context a little . MS . TREVARTHEN: That is okay . Veritext L egal So lu tio ns 305-376-8 800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 5 16 1 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 14 MR . GONZALEZ : Technically, would he send those to the county with specific criteria and the county would MS. TREVARTHEN: I 'm about to get to that. MAYOR GROISMAN : You mean Dwight? MR; GONZALEZ: Dwight, yes. MS. TREVARTHEN: There is something I also want to mentio n ,_ whi ch is that this Sect i on 82 , the one that is the brand new provision of your charter that requires a popular referendum if you are going to expand the comme r cial project, that one runs right into a Florida statute, which ~s Section 163. 3 1 67 ( 8) (a), which says a referendum in regard to any development order is prohibited . There is this whoie discussion we have had leading up to now, as well as this evening, that is more procedural in nature. Did they sign right? Di d somebody attest to it? Does the paper look right? This is a substantive concern with putting the Sec t ion 82 of our . charter on the ballot. So when you say what happens next , there is a question of would we send that o n even i f the procedure were correct . We would need to decide . MAYOR GROISMAN: So I understand , the Veritext Leg al Solutions 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726 -7007 Page 15 second of the two petitions, t he one that -- MS. TREVARTHEN: The commercial expansion referendum. MAYOR GROISMAN: Commercia l expansion . If there is commercial expansion more than 30 percent~ it needs to go to a refe rendum and the referendum needs to be 60 percent, needs to win by 60 percent for it to be approved. MS . TREVARTHEN: That is what i t says, yes . MAYOR GROISMAN : That one seems to be precluded by t he Flo rida statute , which says you can't have referendums re l ated to development . MS . TREVARTHEN: That is the concern . No rmally ,· the village .clerk, city clerks, it doesn't matter where you are, clerks are generally not in the business of judging the substantive validity of what the petition seeks to do , but we as a village overall would have to look at that and decide whether or not to forward . staff? So to get back to -- COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : Excuse me . Excuse me . So we as a village meaning who? We the MS . TREVARTHEN: The v i l l age attorney, t he administration . Veritext Legal Solutions 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 I 7 8 9 10 1 1 12 1 3 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 16 COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: So did we give direction? MAYOR GROISMAN: I thin k she just said it. That it's precluded by t he statute. MR. GONZALEZ: No ins t ructions have been given. MS. TREVARTHEN : I am turning to what -- MAYOR GRO I SMAN: We didn't have to get there because of the procedu r al? Is that why? MR. MANDELL : Correct. MS . TREVAR T HEN : Exactly. What happened was in early January , Dwight made the decision to reject t h e pet i tions based on the lack of the attestation of the petition circulator. J ust to be clear, what we are talking about, under the coun t y code , under the charter, village charter provis i ons if they apply, there is this requirement that you not on l y send around the question and h ave the petition1 the person who wan ts to sign the peti t ion sign off on it , you should also have a place where the person who circulates th e pe tition signs and says, yes, I did this , I witnessed this signature , everything is in good order. So a question that was p r esent in this Veritext Legal Solutions 305 -376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 17 particular situation was these forms of these two questions that were circulated by the committee did not have a place for t he petition circulator to execute . COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: Kind of like a custodian . MS . TREVARTHEN: Yes. To say this was done right . Almost l i ke a n ot ary . So he decided based on past pract i ce within t he v il lage , and as I ment i oned i n the b e ginning, in the past, people would always come to us before. They had followed t he format of pas t petit i on questions. All of them have the place for the attestation of the petition circulator . This commi t tee d i d not do that , and so they used a form that did not have the attestation . . MR . WE I SS : We have always been very helpf u l when they came to us . Like Tucke r Gibbs when he did the other charter amendment, he came to us . We suggested some language that might be clearer . So when they actually went through the effort of circulating these petitions , things were done in th~ r i g h t format. There is no requirement that he do that, bu t he d i dn 't do it righ t. They would have Veritext Legal Solutions 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 1 2 13 14 1 5 1 6 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 1 8 avoided all this problem. COUNCILMAN ALBAUM: Does Dwight just solely make this d ecision or does he confer with you guys, too? COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: That is exact l y wh a t I was going to ask . COUNCI LMAN ALBAUM: Or Jorge or whoever was present? MS. TREVARTHEN : He did confer with the manager. He also conferr~d with us, and we gave him input, but u l tima t ely it's the role of the vi l lage clerk on those matters to rule on these petitions. So wh at he d id , a s I said, it was r e je ct th e m b as ed o n th e a ttes t at i o n. MR. GO NZALEZ : I t 's his r o l e. S u s an ca n 't tell him what to do o r I can 't tell him what to do. MS . TREVARTHEN: He works for you . CO UNCILWOMAN COHEN : Wel l , legal advice he can ge t from our attor n eys . MS . T REVARTHEN : Which we did give him. MR. WEISS: Just to put i t out, first of al l , Dw i ght was in a ve r y difficu l t positio n , and did a wo n derful , a good j ob on th i s, the best job Veritext Legal Solutions 305 -376~8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 11 1 2 1 3 14 1 5 1 6 17 1 8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 19 he could . I will just tell you that . We had a discussion with Dwight , and we told him --you know , this is sort of like the Imbes i plat case whe re you had lawyers on both sides , both smart la wyers. In the Imbesi case , we told you that we felt like Mr. Imbesi was correct. In t his particular case , we to ld Dwigh t that we thought that the petitioners were correct , and t hey had the --that was the better argument. He felt very, very strongly based upon precedent, what had always happened i n the village , that this was required , and so that is what he did . But he did it in very good fait h based upon what he spoke with prior clerks and all that. He - did what he t hought was the right thing to do. MS. TREVARTHEN: Exactly. COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : If we had had this meeting not in private , but perhaps if we had addressed this issue, not this meeting, but something li ke this over there, could we perhaps have avoided litigation if it was run by us and we would side with you and say, let it go? MS. TREVARTHEN: That is h is call. MR. GONZALEZ: It 's hi s ca l l . Veritext Legal Solutions 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 20 MAYOR GROISMAN : He has the independence. MR . WEISS: He is the supervisor of elections . MAYOR GROISMAN: This isn 't him as the clerk . This is him as the supervisor of elections . You can 't tell him what to do. MS. TREVARTHEN: And he did come to the council meeti ng in January i f you reca ll , and he read a s ta tement that explained to t he council that he had made thi s decision on th i s basis . To add to what Ric hard said COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: So it was a statement . MS . TREVARTH EN : which is a hundred percent correct. COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: Suggesting that we could have something brought i n front of us. MS . TREVARTHEN : Right, right . He also based it on the fact t hat many other Dade County cities fol low thi~. Many o f them consider it a best practice. When you go to municipal clerk school, they tell you it's the best practice. MR . WEISS: Also , if they come to us in advance , we would have recommended that they include the certification because it is the bes t practice. Veritext Legal Solutions 305-3 76-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 1 8 I 19 20 21 22 23 24 . 25 800-72 6-7007 Page 21 So t he decision he was ta k ing is very typital of what every eity does . MS . TREVAR THEN: The problem is it 's not legally required. COUNCILMAN ALBAUM: How many peti t ions,·by the w·ay, approxima t ely? Ten percent? COUNC I LWOMAN COHEN : It must be a min i mum of ten percent of the populati on . MS. TREVARTHEN : You have 1732 reg i ste r ed voters. So they needed 174. For the two questions, they both were we l l in excess of t hat . One was like 240 and the other was a l ittle bit l ess before they were culled . COUNCILWOMAN CO HEN : Even if they had been culled, they had the 174 people . MAYOR GROISMA N : Just to move to practicality · __ MS. TREVARTHEN : Right . MAYOR GROISMAN : --the only one of these quest i ons that have any significance any more , most likely for the people who brought the pe t itions , is the second one because of the development, because of the purpose . We all k now the pu r pose o f these pet itions was related to the Bal Harbou r Shops expansion . One way or the Veritext Leg al Solutions 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1 4 15 16 17 1 8 19 20 21 I 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 22 other , it was to affect that one way or the other . Now that that expansion doesn 't include t he sale, the proposal doesn 't include the sale or transfer of any village property, the first one, most like l y, they we wouldn 't be pursuing -- MR. WEISS: For the current day . MAYOR GROISMAN: for the current , for right now . COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : For the short term, yes. MAYOR GROISMAN: So the one that matters more for righ t now is t he second question. MS. TREVARTHEN: Although the litigation is about bot h . I would not prejudge the plaintiffs on that. MR. GONZALEZ: The other big issue is on the procedural, proceed to county and put them on the ballot. MS . T REVARTHEN: That i s the relief , send it to t he coun t y is what it says . MR. GONZALEZ : The i ssue of whether Sect i on 82 is or is no t legal pursuant to the state statute is rio t a question that has been discussed. MAYOR GROISMAN: It should be on that . MS. TREVARTHEN: The p l aintiffs take the Veritext L egal Solutions 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 11 1 2 1 3 14 15 1 6 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 23 position that the clerk 's action is mi n i sterial and they argue in their comp l aint, t h ere is an allegation in t h e prayer for rel ief tha t says if the vil l age thin ks that any of those questions a re improper , then it should seek declarato r y relief . Th at is their petition . MR. WEISS : Correct me if I am wrong , Ma t t. We got an extens i on of time so we could have the executive session. MR. MANDE L : Tha t i s r i ght . MR . WEISS: We haven 't filed a res ponse . MR. MANDEL : The response was due today . We got a week extension . J.C . Planas is seek i ng, pursuant to the statute, and action for d e clarat ory relief under Chapter 86. T h at statu te provides that he can set this for an expedited hearing . So he i s next week seeking the ability to put i t on· an expedited schedule. It 's Judge Rodriguez in Miami . I had a dee action that we bro u ght on behalf of the City of North Miami in a matter we had last year. We sought an expedited hearing . I think she put it on , she gave us , i t was l i ke two , three months o u t. She was able to do that . I don 't know how Veritext Legal Solutions 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 11 12 13 14 1 5 16 1 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800 -726 -7007 Page 24 her schedu l e is , but that is how it was . She runs a fairly busy docket . These are issues of law we think . I don 't think there is going to be a l ot of d i scovery, alt hou gh J .C . Planas has hit us with some harassin g type d i scovery requests that have rea l ly noth i ng to do with the underlying substantive issues or procedural issues in the case . Mr: Mayor, as you all u ded to , the lawsui t is a lot more than just· these i ssues . It's about what you were talking about, and, clearly , the discovery requests are directed towards that . So we are going to , obviously , lodge the appropriate objections on that . MAYOR GROISMAN : They made a lot of discove r y requests that is inconsistent with gett ing an exped i ted hearing. MR. MANDEL: Tha t is exactly what our a rgument is going to be . We are going to kind of put him in a box next week and bas i cally say , well , if you want an expedited hearing , these are the is sues of l aw that you want to get to real qu i ckly, you don 't need the discovery. MR. WEISS: We are real l y j u mping the gun a little because the counci l could dec i de --we are Ve ritext Leg al So luti ons 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I 10 11 12 13 1 4 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 25 here to get direction from our c l ient whether we are going to put him in a box, no t pu t him in a box, object to their discovery, not object. You are our clients . So we are here t o ge t your d i rection on how you want us to deal with this lawsuit that is pending. MAYOR GROISMAN : That was where else my quest i on was going to. My question was going to when I said let 's get out of t he theoretica l and into the pract i cal. Practically speaking, the second ques t ion is the one that is drivi ng this l itigat i on right now . The question for council is it seems like we have a good argument , a strong argument that the whole second petition is precluded by Florida statute. Is that right? MR. WEISS: Yes. MS. TREVARTHEN : We think so . So it l eaves you wi t h two choices. Do you raise that now or do you wait for somebody else to try to raise that . MAYOR GROISMAN : We can eithe r raise it as an affirmative defense. MR. MANDEL : Or alterna t ively, there is different ways of raising. There is ways you can ra i se it as a motion to d i smiss because the relief Veritext Lega l Solutions 305 -376-880 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 1 2 13 14 15 16 1 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 ·Page 26 they are seek i ng is mandamus , which you have to establish as a clear legal right . Although , as Richard and Susan al l uded to , they are saying that the substantive defense to this is not appropriate . They are makirig a challenge as to the procedural aspect , how it was handled procedurally in that in t hei r complaint what they are saying is, yo u deal wi t h the substantive fal ~acy , i f there is a fallacy , that you dea l wi th it by the village bringing an ac t ion for declarato r y relief or the developer can bring i t, or , alternatively, we can raise i t as a motion to dismiss. That is kind of t he direction we want to get from the council . We could raise it as a mot i on to dismi ss, as part of a motion to dismiss and they can make this whole dance about why i t i s not , i t should be considered in t his lawsuit . But a good example would be , we a~e saying it 's illegal , you can 't do this. I f they were to say, look , we want to put someth ing on the bal l ot that bas i cally peop l e of a different race can 't participate in certain activities, I mean , clearly 1 that is illegal . They are going to say , wel l , t h at has to go on the ba l lot. We can 't deal wi th Veritext Le gal Solutions 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 27 that here and right now. So I think there is a very good basis to raise t hat as part of the motion as i t relates to Section 82. We haven't gotten to 81. 82 is the only one that we really have a substantive defense to. MS. TREVARTHEN: The commercial expansion. MR. WEISS: I want to be fair . You are under no obligation to raise t h at. If the council determines they want these petitions to go ahead , notwithstanding the fact that we have legal concerns about one of them, the council can direct -- MAYOR GROISMAN: Hold on. How can we if there is a Florida statute that specifically says we cannot ? MR. WEISS: Because we are not obligated to raise it. MS. TREVARTHEN : And t he cases say. MAYOR GROISMAN : I disagree with that . MR . WEISS: There is an argument that J .C. Planas will ma ke as to wha t that statute does say . COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: Can you te l l us that? MR . WEISS: I don't know what it is. MAYOR GROISMAN : He is going to come up with some creative argument as to why i t doesn't, Veritext Legal Solutions 305 -376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 0 2 1 22 2 3 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 28 but is you look at the face of the statute -- COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : You are saying it 's absolute ly -- MR . WEISS : We are not saying it 's illegal . We are saying -- COUNCI LWOMAN COHEN: If i t 's illegal . MR . WEISS : We are saying that we f eel very comfo rtable that that second pet ition vio l ates the Flo rida statute . COUNC ILWOMAN COHEN : Which -states exactly what? MR . MANDEL : I 'l l tell you . It 's right here . 163 .3 1 67 (8) (a). It says an initiative or referendum process in regard to any development order is prohibited . COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : Development order means specif i cally that . A deve l opment like MR . MANDEL : It says any development order . MS. TREVART HEN: This is a referendum and this is a development order . MR. GONZALEZ: Guys , you need t o look at it beyond the i tem t hat is on your agenda next . Tha t i s the shops . On ce it 's in you r cha r te r , it 's in you r charter and it remains there and every deve l opment V eritext Legal Solutions 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 29 item that comes before this council or any future council will be bound to that issue . So don 't look at it as just COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : But there is riot like l y that expands 30 percent more tha n. Thirty percent is -- MS . TREVARTHEN : Thirty percent . MR . GONZALEZ : T hirty percent of the 40 ,000 is only 12. MAYOR GROISMAN: So as far as direction goes, let's get to direction. Here is my position, and then maybe if you guys are ready , let's go around the table and everybody can state their position and as k questions . Hopefully, at the end of your questions , state your position and then we will see where we are at as far t h e elective people. With regards to the second pe t ition, I think it 's clear from day one when this thing came in that it runs afou l of the Florida statute. It says you can 't have any of these t ypes of referendums related to development . That infringes on what we do as a council . So I think we have to take the shortest route to victory, Verite xt Legal Solutions 305 -3 76 -88 00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 30 quote/unquote , in t he laws 0it . Because if not , we are going to be spending money and time and headaches as we have with every other lawsu it . I think the quickest way, you guys are the lawyers, but is a motion to dismiss. Of course, they can say, t hey can put in their complaint all they want . You can't bring this up un l ess it 's a dee action, but they don't get to tell you wha t motions you get to file. If it prec l udes, if .it makes their complaint moot, that is sort of the d~finition of failure to state a c l aim. That is why I thin k we should move to dismiss the second one. As to the first one, we should answer it . You just answer the complaint and see what happens. If the second once gets dismiss ed, the funding is going to go away. They are not going to chase after the first one , I don't think. MR. GONZALEZ: Is this one lawsuit or two lawsuits? MAYOR GROISMAN: One lawsuit. MS. TREVARTHE N : One lawsuit. MR. MANDEL : It 's one lawsuit . MR. GONZALEZ: Wou l d a judge bifurcate these? Veritext Legal Solutions 305 -376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 31 MAYOR GROISMAN: You can move to dismiss. You move to dismiss one count. MR. MANDE L: Well, actually, it 's interes ting. They are kind of commingled together and they did that, I think, on purpose. MAYOR GROISMAN: Who is the judge you said? MR. MANDEL : Rosa Rodriguez. MAYOR GROISMAN: Oh, Rosa. Rod riguez . MR . MANDEL: She is a very good judge. COUNCILMAN ALBAUM : So you go for a d i smissa l on one, but they are commingled. COUNCILWOMAN COH EN : Her name is Rodriguez? MR. MANDEL : Yes. MAYOR GROISMAN: I think not legally, but practically it might because if the second part is not done on a motion to dismiss. MR. WEISS: So you think we should basically defend the lawsuit, try to get the lawsuit dismissed on both, with respect to both petit ions? That is what you want us to do? MAYOR GRO I SMAN: Yes. MR . WEISS: Okay . COUNCILMAN FREIMARK: I have a bifurcated view and that is as it re l ates t o the second part; the commercial use, I clearly agree. I think that Veritext Legal Solutions 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 13 14 15 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 32 we shou l d defend that and seek dismissa l. As it relates to the f i rst part , I think that we shou l d try to negotiate some form of a sett l ement on that with them because I think from the council 's perspective , I wou l dn 't want be in a position of fighting everything that is corning . The fir~t one , if we are ab l e to get to a settlement , put it o~t to a vote . We ta l ked about it . We ta l ked about putting thi ngs out for voters to decide . I would put the first one to a vote . The second one , I wou l d move to dismiss because I do think as fiduciary stewards , I think i t is complete l y counterintuitive to a llo w that one to go forward predicated on the reading of the statute . MAYOR GROISMAN : I don 't d i sagree wi th that . ASSISTANT MAYO R SALVE R: I don 't know . I don 't rea l ly have anything to say . COUNCILMAN ALBAUM : Let me ask a question . Cou l d the judge dismiss the second one and not the first one? Because you said they were sort of comming l ed in . Is that possible or we don 't know? MR. MANDEL : Yes , that is possib l e . What Veritext Legal Solutions 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 3 14 15 1 6 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 33 she could probab l y do is she could if I was the· judge and I t r ied this as a j u dge , you could dismiss the whole th ing withou t prejudice and just say replead i t as it relates to Section 81 . MAYOR GROISMAN : Make them redraf t it , pull out the o t her one. MR. MANDE L : Right. COUN.CILMAN ALBA UM: T think I go fo r dismissa l on the whole t hing , that i s my opinion . What is the downside? I f we go for a dismissal and the j udge doesn 't , then we go forward . MS . TREVARTHEN: One downside is we are litigating the case . We are fighting in court , we are spending money . COUNCI LMAN ALBAUM: If we don 't dismi ss , then we are there anyway. COUNCILMAN FREIMARK: I think the downside of the op t ics t o some extent, the optics on the first one, why are we fighting everything that the electorate wants . The first one is put it to a vote. We said we s h ou l d put things to a vote and let t h e voters decide whethe r they want it t o be 50 pe r cent or 60 percent, al l of us , as it relates to the sale of village property . Why be i n the Veritext Legal Solutions 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2 1 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 34 press fighting everything that is corn~ng to us. MAYOR GROISMAN: I actually don 't disagree with what you are saying . COUNCILMAN ALBAUM: I don't either. MAYOR GROISMAN : You are not saying different things because from what the lawyer said before --please correct me , guys. There 's three of you . You are saying you don't see a .basis anyway, a good faith basis to move to d ismiss the first petition , as to the first petition. MS . TREVARTHEN : We thin k it 's far less clear . MR. MANDEL: We don't have a solid statutory basis. MAYOR GROISMAN: That is better as an affirmative defense to deal with it l ater . You are saying move to dismiss, it is cons i stent with what.they are saying, move to dismiss it as to number two . COUNCILMAN ALBAUM: Exactly . MAYOR GROISMAN: Okay . We are on the same page . With regards to negot ia ting , the only thing with that, what I would just recommend is let's Veritex t Lega l Solutions 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 11 12 13 14 15 16 1 7 1 8 19 20 2 1 22 23 2 4 25 800-726-7007 Page 35 move to dismi ss the second one , and then see what happens . COUNCILMAN F REIMARK : I l eave i t to you guys , quite frankly . COUNCILWOMAN COHE N : I have a question . COU NCILMAN FREIMAR K: The strategy on that . COUNC I LWOMAN COHE N: This initiative or referendum in regard on an y deve l o p me nt o rde r , so -- MR . WEISS : A development order would be a deve l opment -- a development order when it is def i ned in the statute is very , very broad . MR . GONZALEZ : It 's not just a deve l opment agreement . COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : They could, I suppose t hey cou l d say they are not do i ng it in r ega r ds to any specifi c ' development . MAYOR GROISMAN : Any development . MS . TREVARTHEN : The wording of their ques t ion i s any proposed development plan for an existing commerci a l prope r ty . Any development order inc l udes , for e x ample , a building permit , a s i ngle pe r mit . There is no way that you could expand a commercial prope r ty mo r e than 30 pe r cent without at least one building permit . So it will Veritext Legal Solut io ns 305 -376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 11 12 13 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-72 6-7007 P age 36 be a development order . That i s why I fee l pretty confident that the sta t u te app l ies . .COUNC ILWOMAN COHEN: These people created it or , yes , created an initiative that is rea l ly a -- MS. TREVARTHEN: A cha r ter amendment tha t calls for a referendum . MR. GONZALEZ : That they believe is i l legal . MS . TREVAR THE N : That we be lieve is i l legal under t he F l o rida sta t ute . MAYOR .GRO I SMAN : Patricia, when you work as a l awyer, you see lots and l ots of cases that are contrary t o t he law. COUNC ILWOMAN COHE N : I 'm try i ng to understand. How cou l d he have interpreted this? MAYOR GROISMAN : You know what? You don 't know what h appen ed in p ri vate conversat i on . They may be we l l aware that it violates and t h e lawyer told them i t . He said , loo k , l et 's g ive it a shot a nd see wha t happens. You don 't know what happened i n closed doors . Lawyers will do that . MR . WEISS : I f i t deals wi th t his area , it 's pretty hard to imag i ne becau se every l awyer, mu ni c i pa l lawyer is aware of that statute . It 's Veritext Legal So lutions 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 1 12 1 3 1 4 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 80 0-726-700 7 Page 37 not some -- MAYOR GROISMAN : He 's a good l ower . He must have fo l d them , let 's take a shot , let 's see what happens , it 's good for politics . You push the buttons and then we see what happens . MR. MANDEL : Sometimes it doesn 't matter the va l idity of the claims ._ T hey just do it to lodge cert a i n th ings for l everage p ur poses , fo r wh ateve r. It 's not the proper use of litigation i n lawsuits , but there are lots of lawyers, as the mayor alluded to , that use the law for different purposes . COUNCILMAN ALBAUM : What would be our f i rs t COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: I lived it f i rsthand. COUNCILMAN ALBAUM : What would be our first glimpse , if litigation goes on t his , costwise? Anybody have any ideas what this thing could cost? MR. MAN DEL : That is a good question. COUNCILMAN ALBAUM: Just a ballpark . MR . MANDEL : They have issued a lot of different discovery , a lot of voluminous discovery reques t s that we have to object to . We have to deal wi t h that . ASSISTANT MAYOR SALVER : What does t hat Veritext Legal Solutions 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 11 1 2 1 3 1 4 15 16 17 I 18 19 20 21 2 2 2 3 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 38 entail if I may ask? MR . MANDEL : I d i dn 't bring t he cop i es. MS . TREVARTHEN : There are lots requests for communications with this and that and the other person that don 't real l y seem very relevant , but there is Dwight 's commun i ca t ions w.ith the supervisor of elect i on s that mi gh t be relevant. I th i nk anything Matt says is going t o be governed by can we say success fu lly, look , t hose things are off po i nt , i f we can get r id of the discovery and really focus on the legal quest i on. MR . MANDEL : We are working on that . One of th e th i ngs we are saying i s that we are going to t r y to get h i m to walk away from t hat. If he wants a n expedited hearing , he can 't at the same time say , I need all this d i scovery . MR . GONZALEZ : I s it in t h e na t ure of e -mails or something like that? MR . MANDEL :· In t h e nature of e-mails , in the nature o f just b asica l ly , it 's everything unde r t he s u n . I agree , but t h e di f fe r ence is whe n you do a public records request , you h ave to pay for it i n a d va n ce . As part of litigation , we have discovery obligations doing it . Under the public records , we do have certain things , Veritext Legal Solution s 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 39 protection. MAYOR GROISMAN: They have to pay for it. MS. TREVARTHEN: And the rules of discovery. MR. MANDEL : The amount of documents that they are seeking, it would be very costly from a public records standpoint. So they are trying to do i t that way. We are going to object. To get to your point , f i le a motion to dismi ss. You know, I think he wants to hear this on an expedited manner . I mean, very bal l park without knowing. COUNCILMAN ALBAUM: The low and the high . MR . MANDEL : What is our hourly rate ? MS . TREVARTHEN : Like 225. MR . MANDEL : .I mean, this could be 20 hours , this could be 30 hours, this could be 40 hours . It depends. COUNCILMA N ALBAU M: This isn't a six figure case? MR . MANDEL : No, no, no. And there is not damages in this case. MR. WEISS : From our point of vi e w, th i s is a pure legal ·case. The issue , ther e i s two issues . One issue is d id the Dade. County Veritext Legal Sol utions 30 5-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1 4 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800 -726-7007 Pag e 40 requirements apply or did they not apply. MS . TREVARTHEN: Procedurally. MR . WEISS: Procedurally, yes or no . Then on the other one is does the proposed petition, proposed charter change violate the Flo r ida statute . From our point of view , it doesn't matter what anybody said or anybody did or ca ll or th is or that. They are clear lega l questions. So that this could be li tigated and we could get an answer very economica l ly, but it depends upon, we don't feel t he need t o have discovery unless something comes up, but I don 't think this is -- COUNCI LMAN ALBAUM: It's our liability. MAYOR GROISMAN: We can use the discovery process to box them in a lit tle bit to what thei r claims are. Because the complaint doesn't allege bad faith, right? It doesn't allege fraud. It just alleges he was wrong on the law. MR. MANDEL: That is correct. I t .jus t say_s t hat he didn 't follow his ministerial functions. They are seek i ng solely for him to use ministerial functions, don't pay attention to anything else substantive . MAYOR GROISMAN: What he says that Joe Veritext Legal Solutions 305 -376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1 9 20 21 22 23 2 4 25 800-726-7007 Page 41 Smith or whoever is irrelevant here . MS. TREVARTHEN: Comp l etely, completely. MAYOR GROISMAN: Okay . ASSIS.TANT MAYOR SALVER: I have a question , though. Since like the shops are somewhat affected by this, is there any chance no matter what we do, do we file something? MR. WEISS: Here is my gut leve l on th e shops speaking with their lawyers. I think that the shops from the ir point of view , I am not saying that it 's right or wrong, but from their point of view they think they took a big step in dismissing all of these lawsuits and being done with it. I think that the shops is very happy not to be in any litigation involving the village. I think they would under normal circumstances, I would think they would come and defend their turf , but I th in k in this particular case , I just don 't see them getting --they could, but just comments that they have made along t he way , which is, we don 't want to be seen as litigating with the village or being invo lved in lit i gat ion. My gut is tha t if they a re comfortable, I know that t hey are comfortable with our firm, that they will be Veritext Legal Solutions 3 05-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 42 comfortable, but who knows . MAYOR GROISMAN: The outcome t hat Jeff recommended, you know, if it works out that way is a great ou t come because if we can get the second one dismissed because it's i l legal, right? And that is some t hing the judge can decide just i n a hearing. It 's just l aw. There is no facts in it, righ t? All that i s le ft is the first one: Then we can, at that point, have a discussion. with them and maybe .we ha ve another roundtable l ike this and we decide, okay, let 's just agree to send that to Dade County and we wil l have a vote on it . If people want it to be 60 percent , so be it. ASSISTANT MAYOR SALVER: At that point, the shops might MAYOR GROISMAN: But they might not even care any more because MR . GONZALEZ : They are not buying. MR . MANDEL: Or you can do that now a nd just tack a second. MS . TREVARTHEN : That is the question. MR . MANDEL: That i s kind of why we really n eed to have this d iscussion . Because if that i s a point that you want to just take off t he table Ve ritext Legal Solutions 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 1 12 13 14 1 5 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726 -7007 Page 43 now . MR. GONZALEZ : I think stra t egically it's a statute issue, right? COUNCILMAN FREIMARK: I agree with that. COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: Richard, if I were an attorney , I would take the lead on this. I have to lend credence to what you are saying. To me , this is i llogical t h at somebody should do something like this . I can 't even wrap my head around it , really . So to me there is someth i ng more . MAYOR GROISMAN: Patricia , the suit they filed aga i nst you, you thought was baseless, right? COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: They were baseless. The proof is -- MAYOR GROISMAN : Whether they were or weren 't , I 'm not look ing i nto that. We don't want to lose the privi lege of this meeting . I am just saying so you understand. COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : We are allowed to comment . MAYOR GROISMAN: I know , but what I am saying is you thought that was base less. They still fi l ed it , right? So lawsuits that are Veritext Legal Solutions 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 44 baseless are filed all the time . That is the only point . MR . WEISS : We are going to file a mot i on to dismiss on both of them . If the motion to dismiss on the procedural one , the first one is denied , then we wil l come bac k to you and , you know , get· some more di r ect i o n. MR. GONZA L E Z : Clarify that again . MS . TREVARTHEN : If q uestion 81 is not dismissed , the n we wi l l come back for f u rther MAYOR GROISMAN : 82 . MS . TREVARTHEN : 81 . MAYOR GRO I SMAN: The first one? MS . TREVARTHEN : The portion to vote on the sa l e of village proper t y , if that one is no t d i sm i ssed . MAYO R GROISMAN : We are not mov i ng to dismiss that one . CO UNCILMA N ALBAUM : We are dismiss i ng the secon d one . MR . GONZALEZ : You e ither move to dismiss on grounds o f the stat e st a tute . MAYOR GRO I S MAN : Wh ich is 82 . MR. GONZALEZ : And then if you fail on that . Veritext Le gal Solutions 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 I 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 45 MS. TREVARTHEN: We are just saying move to dismiss both. MR. WEISS: Wha t is the direction on the other one? MAYOR GROISMAN: Just answer. MR . MANDEL : Hold on. I don't think we need to make t ha t decision because t he way J.C. has commingled everything, we file a motion to dismiss and just say that at l east part of this thing is illegal . I mean, we don't have to answer . We then get the motion resolved as it relates to 82, get d irection from the court. The court can throw out 82 or could force us to answer as it relates to 81 and 82 . Then we come back. If they throw out 82 , we just have to answer 81, come back or not, but. we don't have to make t hat dec i sion to answer. Le t 's just file the .motion t o dismi ss. We will pu t our best arguments, t he most credible arguments as it relates to 82, and we don't have to answer given that it is al l conglomerate i nto one. MR. WEISS: By the way, just for the record, I want to say tha t I really feel l ike Dwight did his leve l best to do the right th ing Veritext Legal Solutions 305 -376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 1 1 2 13 14 15 16 17 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 46 here and felt like he was doing his job very conscientiously and the fact that , you know , there 's different legal opinions, I don 't really think is -- MR . GONZALEZ : He reco9nized either way it would have ended up in litigation . MR ; WE I SS : He is a standu p guy . He made a decision here and whethe r you agre e with it or disagree with it, he's a standup guy and d i d h i s job . CO UNCILWOMAN COHEN: Okay . So my othe r ques t ion is on --oh, my God --talking abou t who did their job . Okay . MS. TREVARTHEN : Okay? COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: I am fine. MAYOR GROISMAN : Any more comments from coun c i l? MR . GONZALEZ : You can't find it? MS. TREVARTHEN : If you think of something else. COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : I t was about --I had one --what were we talking about? I had a question . COUNCILMAN ALBAUM: About Dw ight ? COUNCI LWOMAN COHEN : The mo tion to dismiss . V eritext Legal Solutions 305 -376 -8 800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-72 6-7007 P age 47 MS . TREVARTHEN : Dwight did his bes t job . If you think of someth i ng else , call me . COUNCILWOMAN CO HE N : I can 't believe it . What we r e we talking about ? Can you remi nd me? MR . GO NZA LEZ : Fi l ed something that was coun ter to the s t a t e statute . COUNCI LWOMA N COHE N: Oh , no . The fact of t h is , I mean , if this is in litigation, do we ne e d to s l ow d ow n what we ar e p r ocee d i ng as f a r a s review i ng the developmen t agreement and all this stuff? Would it throw a curb ba l l? Would it force us to give it a chance to be resolved before we continue? Otherw i se , it 's a slap i n the f ace . It 's a blatant slap i n the face . MAYOR GROISMAN : What is a slap in the face? They submi tted a petition that violates Florida statute . What is the s l ap in the face? COUNCILWOMAN CO HEN : In case they rule in their favor . I don 't know . We wouldn 't be i n litigation if it was a hundred percent . MAYOR GROIS MAN : They could run to the judge tomorrow and get an emergency hearing i f they want . COUNC I LWOMA N COHEN: Th at is why I 'm bring i ng i t u p. I a m no t a n a ttorn ey . Ver ite xt Legal Soluti ons 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 4 25 80 0-726-7007 Page 48 MAYOR GROISMAN: You guys can answer. We are not under any obligation to curb anything we are doing. The judge can te ll us what to do and the judge can order us to do whatever she wants . MS. TREVARTHE N~ The petitions have not ye t been certified . So that is what starts the clock for going to the ballot . Even then , it wouldn 't become ef fec ti ve until after t he vote . MR . GONZALEZ : I think what Patricia is asking is , there i s a pending application for the expansion t h a t may be affect ed by this i f ultimately a vote is affirmative . MS . TREVARTHEN : That is true . COUNCILWOMAN COHEN : We need to take that i nto consideration. MS .-TREVAR T HE N : Actua l l y , the one that dates back to November is only about sale of vi l lage property . No one is proposing to sell village p r operty . MR. GONZALEZ: I thought bot h of them were retroactive . MS. TREVARTHEN : No, it 's not . MR. I'1ANDEL : They are not seeking injunctive relief as it relates to -- MS . TREVARTHEN : Yes , it 's jus t t he sa l e . Veritext Legal So lutions 305 -376-880 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 6 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 49 The expansion is not retroactive. MR . WEISS: The other one, it would not take effect until the petition is certified, and found valid, t he voters vote . So that could be by the t ime t hat gets done , even if we just said, okay, let 's put it on the ballot now , it's going to be months and months before that even gets to the vote, even if it is approved. MR. MANDEL: And they are not seeking in junctive relief to prevent the city from continuing to operate. MR. GONZA LEZ: They could. MAYOR GROISMAN: They could go in for a motion . MR. MANDEL: That is correct, but right how as pled , what we are dealing with right now is the only injunctive relief they ar~ seeking is ordering and enjoining the clerk from destroying any petit i on, insur i ng they are $ecured, not tampe r ed with by the village hall, which we agreed to do because under 119 we can't destroy. COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: I'm sorry, b u t you guys speak l i ke we are a l l attorneys. MR. MANDEL: I'm sorry. Under t h e public records law, we can 't destroy . Veritext Lega l Solutions 305 -3 76 -880 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 50 COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: Public records I got . I got what I got. I can probably teach a 101, college 101 course on that one. I am talking about injunct ive relief . MS. TREVARTHEN: The court saying do something or don't do somethin g is injunctive relief as opposed to award in g damages . MR. GONZALEZ : So the j udge could stop it. MAYOR GROISMAN : If the judge issues an in junction to the v illage saying , don 't do th i s, that is cal l ed an i njunction. MR . MANDEL: Or enjoining . Enjoin i ng i s another word for i njunction . COUNCILWOMAN COH EN : I don't get where the word relief comes from. ASSISTANT MAYOR SALVER: I have a quest ion . For the f irst, for Section 81 , is this exposing kind of like a flaw in our charter, in our ordinances that should be corrected? COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: As usual , not enough clarity . MR . WEISS: Honestly, I feel, we feel that our code is clear; The se secti on& don't apply. If you wanted to add a section t hat dealt with how charter amendments are done, you could, but most Veritext Lega l Solutions 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 800-726 -7007 Page 51 city codes, a lot of city codes don't have sections that deal with charters because it 's dealt under the Dade County. ASSISTANT MAYOR SALVER: And Dade County i s the way that Dwight -- MS. TREVARTHEN: Well, there 's two parts of Dade County . There is the Dade County .charter that applies to municipal charter amendments that says fo llow your own rules and here is the time frame one~. the petitions are certified, just how quickl y you get on the ballot . That is a ll it says . Then for a question that is a county question, l ike you are changing county law, there is all the details abou t t he petition circulator and tons of detai l s . MR. GONZALEZ: Susan mentioned following your own ru l es. COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: Exact l y , there are no rules. MS . TREVARTHEN : Which means there isn't a l egal basis to sanction . COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: The question is answe r ed. MS . TREVARTHEN : We could write them . We Veritext L egal Solutions 305-376-8800 1 I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 I 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2 1 22 23 24 25 800-726-7007 Page 52 could write them. MAYOR GROISMAN: Yes, we could write t hem . MR. WEISS : Yes, we could write them . ASSISTANT MAYOR SALVER: Are we allowed to discuss it here? MAYOR GRO IS MAN : Tied into this litigat i on , we shou ldn 't do it whi l e this litigat ion is penoing. MR. WEI SS: Also, I made a recommendation for years that our code needs to be gone through. Counc i l never wanted to do it. COUNCILWOMAN COHEN: Eve r since I have been on the council , every single time . I th i nk we need to address it . MAYOR GROISMAN : I agree, but I think we are getting off topic. I'm now reopening the meeting. Nobody is h ere , but t he attorney/client session ha s now been terminated. It's open to the pub lic who i s now invited to return for any further proceed ings or matters of which there are none. Good night . (Thereupon , t he proceedings were concluded at 7:55 p.m.) Veritext Legal Solutions 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 53 C E R T I F I C A T E I, Mary G. Stephenson, FPR, State of Florida at Large, certify that I was authorized to and did stenographically report the forego i ng proceedings and that the transcript is a true and complete record of my itenographic notes. Dated t his 20th day of March, 20 17 . Mary G. Stephenson, FPR Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 [& -assistant] & I 655 1:18 I affidavit 9:4 - 7 affirmative 25:22 & 2:13 34:17 48:12 0 7 1: 19 afoul 29:21 I--7:10 1:20 3:19 01 1:15 ~genda 28:22 7:55 1:20 52:24 31:25 38:21 1 agree 8 42:12 43:4 46:8 101 50:2,3 8 14:13 28:13 52:15 119 49:21 81 5:18,2311:18 agreed 49:20 12 29:9 13:6 27:4 33:4 44:9 agreement 35:14 163.3167 14: 13 28:13 44:12 45:14,16 47:10 1732 21:9 50:17 ahead 27:9 174 21:10,15 82 5:25 8:1611:18 al I :13,14 3:23,23 13:6 14:8,20 22:22 albaum 2:5 3:10,11 17th 7:25 27:3,4 44: 11,23 4:2,7 5:4 18:2,7 1st 5.20 2 45:12,13,14,15,20 21:5 31:10 32:20 I..--------, 86 23:16 33:8,16 34:4,21 '-----------, 20 12:3 39:17 9 37:13,16,20 39:13 2016 5:20 7:1,15,18 96 h 1.18 39:19 40:14 44:19 2017 1:19 53:11 1---1 _t __ .____ 46:24 2017-003330 1:15 a allegation 23:3 3:24 ability 23:18 20th 53:11 able 23:2532:7 225 39:15 absolutely 28:3 240 21:12 accept 12:16 27 1:15 3:24 acting 12:1 286.011 3:21 action 7:15 23:1,15 -=---=-------------, 3 23:21 26:10 30:8 activities 26:23 30 6:3 15:6 29:5 actual 11 :24 35 :Z 4 39 : 17 add 10:21 20: 11 33154 1:19 50:24 4 address 52: 14 40 39:18 addressed 19:20 40,000 29:8 administration ~~------ 5 15:25 50 33 :24 advance 20:23 38:23 1------ 6----advice 18:20 60 5:22 6:7,25 7:9 affect 22: 1 15:7,8 33:24 42: 13 I allege 40:17,18 alleges 40: 19 allow 32:13 allowed 43:21 52:4 alluded 24:9 26:3 37:l l alternatively 25 :23 26:12 amend 11:3 12:1 amended 5: 18 amendment 10:13 12:6 17: 19 36:6 amendments 9:20 11: 13 ,22 50:25 51:8 amends 11 :15 amount 6:4 12:13 39:5 animals 11 :4,5 Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 Page 54 answer 30:14_,15 40:10 45:5,11,13 45:16,17,2148:1 answered · 51 :24 anybody 37:18 40:7,7 anyway 6:17 33:17 34:10 appearances 2:2 application 48:10 applied . 9:3 applies 36:251:8 apply 8:24 9:3,11 9: 14, 18,22,23,24 10:111:2316:17 40:1,1 50 :23 · appropriate 24:13 26:5 approval 5:20 6 :5 approved 6:6 15:8 49:8 approximately 21:6 area 36:23 argue 23:2 argued 9:1 arguendo 12:12 argument 9:10,12 19:9 24:19 25:14 25: 14 27:20,25 arguments 45:19 45:20 arose 8:23 asked 7:22 asking 12:14 48:10 aspect 26:6 assistant 2:4 3:8,9 4:6 32:18 37:25 41:4 42:15 50:16 51:4 52:4 305-376-8800 I as 12 Page 55 some : 12 basis 20: 101~2~7~:2~!-------=------=------=--~:__::__::__ assuming 12:19 34:9,10,15 51:22 c circulated 5:13 9:5 attendance 4:5 b c 53 I 1 11 24 eginning 17: 1 o ; , : 17:2 · attention 40:23 behalf l0:5 23 :21 ca 1:15 3:24 circulates 16:22 attest 14:18 believe 36:8,10 call 3:4,5 19:24,25 circulating 17:22 attestation 16:14 47:3 40:8 47:2 circulator 16: 14 17:14,16 18 :15 best 6:17 18 :25 called 50:11 . 17:3,14 51:15 attorney 1:8 2:11 20:20,21,24 45 :19 calling 3:3 circumstances I 3:20 9:13 15:24 45:25 47:l calls 36:7 41:17 43:6 47:25 52:18 better 5:l 19 :9 candidates 8:12 cities 20:19 attorneys 4:8 9:21 34:16 care 42:18 city 15:14 21 :2 18:2149:23 beyond 28:22 case 1:15 3:23 5:12 23:2149:10 51:1,1 authorized 53:6 bierman 2 :13 19:3 ,5,7 24:8 33:14 claim 30:11 avoided 18: 1 19:22 bifurcate 30:24 39:20,22,24 41: 19 claims 37 :7 40: 17 awarding 50:7 bifurcated 31:23 47:18 clarification 6:14 1 aw_a;_:_:r~e____::3_:::6~:1~9,!..::2.::_5 __ big 10:l 5 l3:l 8 cases 27:18 36:13 clarify 44 :8 b 22:1641:12 certain 26:2337:8 clarity 50:21 back 6:25 .7:11,14 bit 12:10 21:12 38:25 clear 16:15 26:2 12:9 .1 s :20 44 :6, 10 40: I 6 certification 20:24 29:20 34: 13 40: 8 45:14,16 48: 17 blatant 47: 14 certified 4:1148:6 50:23 background 5:6 bloch 1:13 3:22 49:3 51:10 clearer 17:21 bad 40:18 bound 29:2 certify 53:6 clearly 10:25 24:11 bal I :6 , I 4, I 8, 19 box 24 :20 25 :2,3 challenge 26 :5 26 :23 3 1 :25 3:23 5:13 6:5 10:1 9 40:16 chance 41:6 47:12 clerk "2:16 5:16 8:9 21 :25 brand 14:9 change 6:25 7:13 8:11 15:14 18:12 ball 47:11 bri~f 5:5 11:1713:840:5 20:5,2049:18 ballot 12:25 13:5 bring 26:11 30:7 changing 51:14 clerk's 23:1 13:1114:21 22:1 8 38:2 chapter 23:16 clerks 15:14,15 26:21,25 48:7 49, 6 bringing 26:10 charter 5:19,25 9:2 19:15 51:11 47:25 9:6,8,10,14,15,17 client 1:83:2025:1 ballpark 37:20 . broad 35: 12 9:20 10:3 , 12 11: 1,3 52: 18 39:11 brought 20:16 11:12 ,15,17,19,22 clients 25:4 based 16:13 17:9 21:21 23:21 12:2,6 14:10,2 0 clock 48:6 18: 15 19: 1o ,14 building 3 5 :22,25 16: 16, 17 17: 19 closed 36:22 20:18 business 15:16 28:24,25 36:640:5 code 10:9,19,22 baseless 43 : 13, 15 busy 24:2 50: 18,25 51 :7,8 12: 16 16:16 50:23 43:2444:1 buttons 37:5 charters 51:2 52:10 basically 13:14 buying 42:19 chase 30:18 codes 51:1,1 24:20 26:22 31:18 choices 25:19 cohen 2:5 3:12,13 38:20 chose 8:20 4:7,23 7: 10,19 9:6 circulate 5:10 9:15 ,2411:615:21 16:l 17:5 18:5,20 [assume -cohen] Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 [cohen -decision] 19:18 20:12,15 21:7,14 22:9 27:22 28:2,6,10,16 29:4 31:12 35:5,7,15 36:3,15 37:15 43:5 43: 15,21 46: 11,15 46:21,25 47:3",7,18 47:24 48:14 49:22 50:1,14,20 51:19 51:23 52:12 cole 2:13 collected 12 : 14 collecting 12:13 college 50:3 come 5:10,14 17:11 20:7,22 27:24 41:18 44:6,10 45:14,16 comes 29:1 40:1 2 50:15 comfortable 28:8 41:24,25 42:1 coming 32:6 34: 1 comment 43 :22 comments 41:20 46:16 commercial 6:2,3 6:117:814:11 15:2 15:4,5 27:6 31:25 35:21,24 commingled 31:4 31:1132:23 45 :8 committee 5: 12 17:2,15 committee's 8:17 8:25 communications 38:4,6 complaint 23 :2 26:7 30:6, 10, 15 40:17 800-726-7007 I complete 53:8 completely 32:13 41:2,2 . concern 14:19 15:13 concerns 27: 11 1 concluded 52:23 conclusion 4:11 confer 18:3,9 conferred 18: 10 confident 36:2 confusing 10:11 11:25 conglomerate 45:21 conscientiously 46:2 consider 20: 19 consideration 48:15 considered 26:18 consistent 34: 18 consulted 8: 16 context 13:24 continue 47: 13 continuing 49: 11 contrary 9:13 36:14 conversation 36: 18 copies 38:2 corner 10:12 correct 12:22 14 :24 16:10 19:6,8 20:14 23:7 34:7 40:20 49:15 corrected 50:19 correctly 12: 11,20 cost 37:18 costly 39:6 costwise 3 7: 1 7 council 20:8,9 24:25 25:13 26:15 27:8,1 129:1,2,24 46: 17 52:11,13 council's 32:5 councilman 2:5,6 3:10,11,14,15 4:2,6 4:7 5:4 13 :15 18 :2 18:721:5 31:10,23 32:20 33:8,16,1 8 34:4,21 35:3,6 37: 13,16,20 39:13 39:19 40:14 43:4 44:19 46:24 councilmembers 2:3 councilwoman 2:5 3:12,13 4:7,23 7:10 7:19 9:6,15,24 11 :6 15 :2 1 16:1 17:5 18:5,20 19:18 20:12,15 21:7,14 22:9 27:22 28:2,6 28: 10,16 29:4 31:12 35:5,7,15 36:3,15 37:15 43:5 43:15,21 46:11,15 46:21,25 47:3,7,18 47:24 48:14 49:22 50:1 ,14,20 51:19 51:23 52:12 count 13:14,22 31:2 counter 47:6 counterintuitive 32:13 county 9:2 10:3 12:2 3 13 :2 1 14:2,3 16:16 20:18 22:17 22:20 39:25 42:12 Sl:3,4,7,7,13,14 Veritext Legal Solutions Page 56 county's 13:12 course 30:5 50:3 court 4:11 33:14 45:1 2,13 50:5 created 5:24 36:3,4 creative 27:25 credence 43:7 credible 4 5: 19 criteria 14:2 culled 21 :13,15 curb 47:11 48:2 current 6:4 22:6,7 custodian 17:6 cut 13:23 d dade 20:18 39:25 42:12 51:3,4,7,7 damages 39:22 50:7 dance 26:17 danie 2: 17 3:5,8,10 3: 12,14,16,1 8 8:9 10:4 dated 53: 11 dates 48:17 david 2:5 day 22:6 29:20 53:11 deal . 25:5 26:8,9,25 34:17 37:24 51:2 dealing 8:13 49:16 deals 36:23 dealt 50:24 51 :3 dee 23:20 30:7 decide 14:24 15:19 24:25 32:10 33:23 42 :6,1 1 decided 17:9 decision 16:12 18:3 1 20:1021:145:7,17 46:8 305-376-8800 [declaratory -file] declaratory 23 :5 38:24 39:4 40:12 early 16:12 23:15 26 :11 40:15 economicaUy 40: 10 defend 31:18 32:1 discuss 52:5 educate 5:4 41:18 discussed 22:23 effect 12:12 49:3 defense 25 :22 26:4 discussion 4:12 effective · 48:8 27:5 34:17 14:15 19:2 42:10 effort 17:22 defined 11 :1 35:12 42:24 either 25:21 34:4 definition 30:11 dismiss 25:2526:13 44:2146:5 denied 44:6 26:16,16 30:5 ,12 election 8: 12 department 4 :19 31:1,2,16 32:11,21 elections 12:24 12 :24 33:3 ,16 34:10,18 20:3,6 38:7 depends 39:18 34:19 35:1 39:10 elective 29:18 Page 57 expansion 7: 8 15 :2 1 15:4 ,5 21:25 22:2 I 27:6 48:11 49:1 expansions 6: 11 expedited 23: 17, 18 2 3:23 24:17,21 38:15 39:11 explained 20:9 exposing 50 : 18 extension 23:8 ,13 extent 33:19 f 40:11 44:4,5,18,21 45 :2,9 electorate 33:21 f 53 :l destroy 49:21,25 45:18 46:25 electors 6:5 ,7 face 8 :5 28 :l 47 :13 destroying 49: 18 dismissal 31: 11" emergency 47:22 47:14,16,17 details 51:15,16 32:1 33:9,1 1 ended 46:6 fact 20 :18 27:l0 determines 27:9 dismissed 30:16 enforce 8:3 · 46 :247:7 I developer 26:11 31:19 42:5 44:10 enjoining 49:18 facts 5:7 42 :7 development 6:1 44:16 I 50:12,12 fail 44 :24 14:14 15:12 21 :23 dismissing 41 :13 entail 38:1 failure 30: 11 28:14,16 ,17,18,20 44:19 erroneously 10:7 fair 27 :7 28 :25 29:23 35:8 distinctions 12:7 esq 2:13 ,14,14 fairly 24 :2 35:10,11,ll,13,17 docket 24:2 establish 26:2 faith 19 :14 34:l0 35 :18,20,21 36:1 document 10:6 estimated 3:25 40 :18 47:10 documents 39:5 et 1:13 ,14 3:23,23 fallacy 26 :9,9 difference 38:21 doing 35:16 38:24 evening 3 :2 14:16 familiar 5:6 different 11:2 ,4,5,8 46:148:3 everybody 29:14 far 29 :l0,lS 34 :12 11:25 25:24 26:22 doors 36:22 exactly 16:1118:5 47 :9 34:6 37:11,22 46:3 downside 33:10,13 19:17 24:18 28:10 favor 47:19 difficult 18:24 33 :18 34:21 51:19 feel 28 :7 36:140:ll difficulties 8 :5 driving 25: 12 example 26:19 45 :24 50:22,22 direct 27 :12 due 23:12 35:22 directed 24:12 dwight 2:17 3:4 8:9 excess 21:11 fe~6 :{0:4 19 :6,l O direction 16:2 25:1 14:5 ,6 16:12 18:2 excuse 15:21 ,21 fiduciary 32 :12 1 25 :5 26 :14 29:10 18:24 19:2,7 45:25 execut~ 17:4 fifty 4:2 29:11 44:7 45:3,12 46:24 4 7:1 51 :5 ex~c~tlve 23 :9 fighting 32 :6 33 :14 disagree 27:19 _d~w_i=g _ht_'s_3_8_:6_· __ ex1stmg 6:1 ,2 35 :21 33 :20 34:l 32:16 34:2 46 :9 e expand 14:11 I fi 39 l9 ____________ 1gure : discovery 24 :4,6,12 e 2:4 38:18,19 53:1 35 :24 file 30:9 39:9 41 :7 I 24:16,23 25 :3 53 :l expands 29:5 1 44:3 45 :8,18 37:22,22 38:11,16 Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 3 05-376-8800 [filed -hit) filed 7:20 23:11 43:q,25 44:1 47:5 find 46:18 fine · 46 15 firm 41:25 first 5:11,15,18 6:15,23 8:14 18:23 22 :4 30:14,18 32:2 32:7,10,22 33:20 33:21 34:11,11 37:14,16 42:8 44:5 44:13 50:17 firsthand 37:15 flaw 50:18 florida 1: 19 ,24 3:21 9:3 14:12 l5:l 1 25:15 27:14 28:9 29:21 36:11 40:6 47:17 53:5 focus 38:11 folder 5:16 follow 20:19 40:21 51:9 followed 17: 12 following 3:1 4:4 51:17 force 45:13 47:12 foregoing 53:7 form 5:15 10:11 17:16 32:3 formalities 12: 11 12:20,21 format 5:12 17:12 17:23 forms 17:1 forward 5:20 12:24 l5:19 32:14 33:12 found 49:4 fpr 1 :23 53:5,15 frame 51:10 800-726-7007 frankly 35:4 fraud 40:18 freimark 2:6 3:1 4 3:15 4:6 13:15 31:23 33:18 35 :3,6 43:4 front 20:16 full 5:16 function 13:12 1 functions 40:21,23 funding 30:17 further 44: lo 52:20 future 29:1 ,____:_::_:~~~--~ g g 1:23 53:5 ,15 gabriel 2:4 generally 15: 16 gentlemen 3:3 getting 24: 17 41 :20 · 52:16 gibbs 17:18 give 5:5 12:10 16:1 18:22 36:20 47:12 given 13:19 16 :6 45:21 glimpse 37: 17 go 4 _:20 6 :25 7:8 13:5 15:6 19:23 20:20 26 :25 27:9 29:13 30 :17 31:10 32:14 33:8,11.12 49:13 - god 46 :12 goes 6:1710:19 29:1137:17 going 4:16 7:11,14 11:20 14:11 18:6 24:4,13,19,19 25:2 I 25:8,8 26:24 27:24 30:2,17,17 38:8,13 I Page 58 39:8 44:3 48:7 49:6 47:21 48:1 49:13 gonzalez 2:9 4:8 50:9 52:2,6 ,15 5 ·2 6 · 12, 18 7: 17 10:5 11:10,14.18 grounds 44:22 13:7 14:1,6 16:5 guess 10:9 gun 24:24 18:16 19 :25 22:16 gut 41:8,23 22:21 28:21 29:8 guy 46:7,9 30:19,24 35:13 guys 18:4 28:21 36:8 38:17 42:19 29:13 30:4 34:7 43:2 44:8,21,24 46:5 ,18 47:5 48:9 35:4 48:1 49:23 48:20 49:12 50:8 r:· ------=-b __ _ 51:17 half 3:25 good 3:2 5:13 16:24 hall 1:18 49:20 18:25 19:14 25:1 4 hand 10:12 26:1927:231:9 handle 5:118:10 34: 10 37:2,4,19 handled 26:6 52:22 handling 4: 19 gotten 5:1113:2 happen 8:1 12:22 27:4 happened 5:8 governed 8:7 38:9 16:11 19:11 36:18 government 5: 13 36:22 great 42:4 happens 14:22 groisman 2 :4 3:2,6 30:16 35:2 36:21 3:7,17,19 4:4 6:13 37:4,5 6:217:2,5,2410:15 happy 41:15 10:18 12:9 13:3,l0 harassing 24:6 13:18,23 14:5,25 harbour 1:6,14,18 15:4,10 16:3,8 20:1 1:19 3:23 5:13 6:6 20:4 21:16,19 22:7 10:19 21:25 22:11 ,24 24:15 hard 36:24 25:7,21 27:13,19 head 4:18 43:9 27:24 29:10 30:21 headaches 30:3 31:l,6,8,14,2l hear 39 :10 32: 16 33:5 34:2,5 bearing -23: 17,23 34:16,22 35:18 24:17,21 38:15 36:12,17 37:2 39:2 42 :7 47:22 40:15,25 41:3 4 2 :2 helfman 2:12 42:1743:12,17,23 helpful 17:18 44:11,13,17,23 high 39:13 45:5 46 :16 47:1 5 hit 24:5 Veritext Legal Solutions 305 -376-8800 [hold -manager] Page 59 hold 27:13 45:6 input 5:11 18:11 k 51:22 honestly 50:22 instructions 13:13 hopefully 29:16 16:5 kind 17 :5 24 :19 legally 21:4 31:14 lend 43:7 26 :l4 31 :4 42 :23 level 41:8 45:25 h r 4 ·1 l insuring 49:19 OU . , · 50:18 hourly 39:14 interest 6:17 hours 39:17,17,18 interesting 31:4 leverage 37:8 know 8:12 10:6,20 1 • 40 14 19:3 21:23 23:25 liabi ity : litigated 40:9 hundred 20: 13 interpretation 10:2 47 :20 interpreted 36:16 1-------i ----introduce 4: 18 27:23 32:18,24 . 33 14 36: 17,18,21 39:10 litigatmg : I---------introduction 4: 17 ideas 37 :l 8 invited 52:20 41:22 41 :24 42:3 43 :23 litigation 3:22 4:12 44:7 46:2 47:19 4:19 19:22 22:13 identified 8:15 involved 4 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overall 15: 18 I november 5:14,20 7:1,15 ,18,25 48 :17 number 1:15 3:24 p f----~-----+ 34:20 ------p.l. 2: 13 0 p.m. 1 :2 0 ,20 52:24 -J o-b-j-ec_t_2_5 :-3-,3-3-7-:2-3---1 page 34 :23 39:8 paper 14:18 part 4:137:11 objections 24:14 26 :16 27:2 31 :15 obligated 12 :16 31:24 32:2 38:23 27:16 45:9 Veritext Legal Solutions 305-376-8800 [participate -raise) participa~e 26:23 particular 17: 1 19:7 41 :19 parts 51:6 passed 7:25 patricia 2 :5 36: 12 43 :12 48:9 pay 38:23 39:2 40:23 pending 25:6 48: 10 52:8 people 4:4 5:9 10:2112:17 17:11 21:15,2126:22 29:18 36:3 42:13 percent 4:2 5:22 6:3,7,25 7 :9 12:3,5 15:6,7,8 20:14 21:6 21:8 29:5 ,6 ,7,8 33:24,24 35:24 42:14 47:20 permit 35:22,23,25 person 16:19,21 38:5 perspective 12:10 32:5 petition 5:10 9:5 10:7,8, 14, 16,21 ,2 1 11:24 12:17 13:5 15:17 16:14,1 9,20 16:22 17:3,13,14 23:6 25 :-15 28:8 29:19 34:11,11 40:5 47:16 49:3,19 51:15 petitioners · 19:8 petitions 5: 14, 15 5:17 7 :23 8:9,14,25 11 :7 12:23 13 :22 15:1 16:13 17:22 18:1 3 21:5 ,22,24 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32:8,10 33:21 proceedings 3:1 33:22 45:19 49:6 4:10 52:20,23 53 :7 putting 14:20 32:9 process 8:8,23 11 :2 q 28: 14 4 0: 16 ._q_u_e-st-io_n_5_:-l 8-,2-4 _ _, prohibited 14:14 28:15 7:21 8:16,21,22,23 14:23 16:19,25 project 14:11 22 : 12,23 25:8,8,11 proof 43 :l6 25:13 32:20 35:5 proper 8 :24 37:9 35:20 37:19 38:11 property 5:21 6:2 41:4 42:22 44:9 6:10 ,16 7:14,16,24 46 12 23 50 16 22:4 33:25 35:21 : ' : 35:24 44:15 48:18 Sl:l 3,l 4,23 48 : 19 questions 5:17 11.1113.4,4 17.2 proposal 22 :3 17: 13 21 :11,20 proposed 6:1 35 :20 23:4 29:15,16 40:9 4 o :4 ,5 quickest 30:4 proposing 48:18 quickly 24 :23 protection 39:1 51 :l l provided 10:7 quite 35 :4 provides 23:16 quorum 3 :16 provision 14:9 quote 30: 1 provisions 9: 10, 14 16:17 public 1 :24 2:18 4:13 38:22,25 39:7 49:24 50:1 52:19 r ..---- r 53:1 race 26:22 raise 25:19,20,21 25:·2s 26:12,15 Veritext Legal Solutions 305-376-8800 [raise -seeking] 27:2,8,17 raising 25:24 rate 39:14 read 20:9 reading 32.:14 ready 29:13 real 24:22 really 24 :6,24 27:5 32:19 36:4 38:5,11 42:23 43:10 45:24 46:3 recall 20:8 received 5: 16 recognized 46:5 recommend 34:25 recommendation 52:9 recommended 20:23 42:3 record 4:13 5:3 45:24 53:8 recorded 4:10 records 38:22,25 39:7 49:25 50: I redraft 33:5 referenda 11 :21 referendum 6:8,11 9:19 10:23 11:10 12:4 14:10,13 15:3 15:6,7 28 :14,19 35:8 36:7 referendums 15 12 29:23 I regard 14:14 28:14 35:8 regarding 3:22 regards 13: 19 29:19 34:24 35:16 registered 21 :9 regulations 12:15 800-726-7007 reject 16:13 18:14 retroactively 8:3 related 15:12 21:24 return 52:20 29:23 review 5:15 relates 27:3 31:24 reviewed 8:14 32:2 3 3 :4,24 45:12 reviewing 47:10 45:14,20 48:24 rewrite 13:9 relevant 38:5,7 richard 2:13 4:8 relief 22:19 23:3,5 20:11 26:3 43:5 23:15 25:25 26:11 rid 8:21 38:10 48:2449:10,17 right 6:23 10:12,17 50:4,7,15 10:19 11:14 13:7 remains 28:25 13:11,20 14:12,18 remind 47:4 14 :1917:8,23,25 remove 10:23 19:1620:17,17 reopening 52:17 21:18 22:8,12 reorient 5 :7 23 :10 25 :12,16 replead 33:4 26:2 27:1 28:12 report 53:7 33:7 40:18 41 :11 reporter 4:11 42:5,8 43 :3,14,25 representative 8:18 45:25 49 :15,16 9: 1 rodriguez 23 :20 request 38:22 31:7,8,12 requests 24:6,12,16 1 role 18:11,16 37:23 38 :3 roll 3:4,5 require 9:4 .room 3:18 required 19:12 rosa 31 :7,8 21 :4 roundtable 42: 11 requirement 7:5 16:18 17:24 requirements 8:8 13:1 40:1 reqmres 14 10 requiring 5:19 resolved 45:11 47:12 route 29:25 rule 18:12 47:18 rules 8:24 9:2,2 ,18 11:22 39:3 51:9,18 51 20 run 19:22 47:21 runs 14 :12 24:1 29:21 s s 2:17 Page 62 salver 2:4 3:8,9 4:6 32:18 37:25 41:4 42:15 50:16 51:4 52:4 sanction 51 :22 saying 8:4 9:22 11 :926:3,8, 19 28:2 28:4,5,7 34:3,5 ,9 34:18,19 38:13 41:11 43:7,20,24 45:1 50 :5,10 says 4 :1 7:14 9:18 10:8,12,13,15 11:20 14:13 15:9 15:1 l 16:22 22:20 23:3 27:14 28:13 28:18 29:22 38:8 40:20,25 51:9,12 schedule 23: 19 24:1 school 20:21 second 7:2 8:21 15:121:22 22:12 25: 11 ,15 28:8 29:19 30:12,16 31:15,24 32:11,21 35: l 42 :4 ,2 1 44:20 section 5: 18 ,23,24 5:25 8:16 11:18,18 14:8,13,20 22:21 27:3 33:4 50 : 17,24 sections 50 23 51 2 secured 49: 19 see 29:17 30:15 34:9 35:1 36:13,21 I 37:3,5 41 :20 seek 10:21 ,23 11 :3 23:5 32:1 respect 3 1 :19 response 23:11,12 responsibility 8: 10 retail 6:3 ,4 retroactive 7: 13 sale 6:10 7:14,17 22 2 3 33 25 44 15 l seeking 23 :t 4,lS : ' : : 26: l 39:6 40:22 I 48:21 49:1 48: 17,25 48:23 49:9,17 Veritext Legal Solutions 305-376-8800 [seeks -think] seeks 15:17 seen 41:22 sell 5:21 6:15 7:15 48:18 send 14:1,23 16:18 22:1942:12 separate 6:12 series 9:18 serota 2:12 4:23,25 serves 8:10 session 1:82:18 3:21,25 23:9 52:18 set 23:16 seth 2:4 sets 9: 18 settlement 32:4,8 seven 7:25 shipped 12:23 shops 9:12 21:25 28:23 41 :5,9,10,15 42:16 short 22:9 shortest 29:25 shot 36:20_37:3 side 19:23 sides 19:4 sign 7:23 14: 17 16:20,20 signature 16:23 53 :1 4 signatures 12: 13 13 :1 4,16,19,20 signed 5:17 significance 21 :20 signs 16:22 silent 9:20 simple 5:22 6:24 single 35:23 52:13 situation 17: 1 six 39: 19 800-726-7007 I slap 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suggesting 20: 15 suggestions 11 : 16 suit 43:12 sun 38:21 supervisor 20:2,5 38:7 suppose 35:15 sure 5:2 13: 17 susan 2:14 4:9,20 9:24 18:16 26:3 51: 17 Veritext Lega l Solutions Page 63 t t 53d,l table 29:13 42:25 tack 42:21 take 22:25 29:25 . 37:3 42:25 43:6 48:14 49:3 taken 1:23 talked 32:8,9 talking 16:15 24:11 46:12,22 47:4 50:4 tampered 49:20 teach 50:2 technically 14: 1 tell 18 :17,17 19:1 20:6,21 27:22 28:12 30:8 48:3 ten 12:5 21 :6 ,8 term 22:9 terminated 52:19 terms 8:4 thank 3:17 4:21 theoretical 25 :9 thing 6:16 7:4 19:16 29:20 33:3,9 34:24 37:18 45 :10 45:25 things 9:4 10:22 17:22 32:9 33:22 34:6 37:8 38:10,13 38:25 think 5:6 16:3 23:23 24:3,4 25:18 27: 1 29:20,24 30:4 30:12,18 31:5 ,14 31:17,25 32:2,4,12 32:12 33:8,18 34:12 38:8 39:10 40:13 41:9,12,15 41:17,18,19 43:2 45:6 46:4,19 47:2 305-376-8800 (think -wrong] 48:9 52:13,15 thinks 23:4 thirty 29:6,7,8 thought 19:8,16 43 :13,24 48:20 three 23:24 34:7 throw 45:13,15 47:11 48:5, 13,16,22,25 50:5 51:6,21,25 tried 33:2 true 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28: 19 29:7 30:22 33:13 34:12 35:19 36:6,10 38:3 39:3 39:15 40:2 41:2 42:22 44:9,12 ,14 45:146:14,19 47: l 800-726-7007 u voluminous 3 7 :22 It . t 1 8 19 vote 6:6,16 7:6 _u 1ma e y : 18:1148:12 12:18 32:8,10 , underlying. 24:7 33:22,22 42:13 understand 7 :10 44 :l4 48 :8,12 49 :4 8.4 14.25 36:16 49 :8 43 :20 voter's 6: 19,22 unquote 30:l voters 7:8,9,22 21:10 32:9 33:23 upper 10:12 49:4 use 31:25 37:9,11 votes 5:21 12 :3 40:15,22 , u_s_u_al_5_0:_2_0 __ ___,I voting 6:,9 7:13 l_v ~ l:l 3 wait 25:20 valid 49 :4 walk 38:14 validate 13: 15 ,16 ' want 3:4 4: 17 14:8 validity 15:17 37:7 24 :21 •22 25 :5 version 8:20,22 26 : 14•21 27 :7 ,9 30:7 3 1 :20 32:5 33:23 41:22 42:13 Veritext Legal Solutions Page 64 42:25 43:18 45:24 47:23 wanted 8:21 50:24 52:11 wants 16:20 33:21 38:15 39:10 48:4 way 4:1711:121:6 21 :25 22:1 30:4 35:23 39:8 41:21 42:3 45:7,23 46:5 51 :5 ways ~5:24,24 week 23:13,17 24:20 weiss · 2: 12 ,13 4:8 4:17,2510:2011:2 13: 12, 16 1 7: 1 7 18:23 20:2,22 22:6 23:7,11 2 4:24 25:17 27:7,16,20 27:23 28:4,7 31:17 31:22 35:10 36:23 39:23 40:3 41 :8 44:3 45:3,23 46:7 49:2 50:22 52:3,9 went 17:21 win 15:7 witnessed 16:23 wonderful 18:25 word 50:13,15 wording 35:19 work 12:18 36:12 1 working 38:12 works 11: 1 18: 19 42:3 wrap 43:9 write 51:25 52:1,2 52:3 written 7:12 wrong 23:7 40:19 41:11 305-376-8800 [wrote -years) Page 65 wrote 7:22 X r-12:13 y year 23:22 years 52:10 Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800