HomeMy Public PortalAbout2022_tcmin0125 COUNCIL MEETING January 25, 2022
Council Chamber, 25 West Market Street, 7:00 p.m. Mayor Kelly Burk presiding.
Council Members Present: Ara Bagdasarian, Zach Cummings, Suzanne Fox, Kari Nacy, Neil
Steinberg, and Mayor Kelly Burk.
Council Members Absent: Vice Mayor Marty Martinez.
Staff Present; Town Manager Kaj Dentler, Town Attorney Christopher Spera, Deputy Town
Manager Keith Markel, Director of Planning& Zoning Susan Berry Hill, Deputy Director of
Utilities Patrick Moore, Zoning Administrator Mike Watkins, Senior Planning Project Manager
Chris Murphy and Clerk of Council Eileen Boeing.
AGENDA ITEMS
1. CALL TO ORDER
2. INVOCATION was given by Reverend Daniel Velez-Rivera, Saint Gabriel's Church.
3. SALUTE TO THE FLAG was led by Council Member Cummings.
4. ROLL CALL Vice Mayor Martinez was absent.
5. MINUTES
a. Work Session Minutes of January 10, 2022
MOTION2022-015
On a motion by Council Member Cummings, seconded by Council Member Bagdasarian, the
minutes of the Work Session of January 10, 2022, were moved for approval.
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Bagdasarian, Cummings, Fox, Nacy, Steinberg, and Mayor Burk
Nay: None
Vote: 6-0-1 (Vice Mayor Martinez absent)
b. Regular Session Minutes of January 11, 2022
MOTION2022-016
On a motion by Council Member Cummings, seconded by Council Member Nacy, the minutes
of the Regular Session of Tanuary 11, 2022, were moved for approval.
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Bagdasarian, Cummings, Fox, Nacy, Steinberg, and Mayor Burk
Nay: None
Vote: 6-0-1 (Vice Mayor Martinez absent)
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COUNCIL MEETING January 25, 2022
6. ADOPTING THE MEETING AGENDA
MOTION2022-017
On a motion by Council Member Steinberg, seconded by Council Member Bagdasarian, the
meeting agenda was moved for approval.
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Bagdasarian, Cummings, Fox, Nacy, Steinberg, and Mayor Burk
Nay: None
Vote: 6-0-1(Vice Mayor Martinez absent)
7. CERTIFICATES OF RECOGNITION
a. None.
8. PRESENTATION OF PROCLAMATIONS
None.
9. PRESENTATIONS
a. None.
10. REGIONAL COMMISSION REPORTS
Mayor Burk reported she met with the Mayors of Loudoun County. They worked on the
redistricting maps and wrote a letter to Senator Bell opposing Senate Bill 255 which would remove
a localities zoning authority over wireless communication infrastructure.
11. PETITIONERS
The Petitioner's Section was opened at 7:05 p.m.
David Drupa. Spoke to Council in opposition of the mask mandate.
Jenny Hall. Spoke to Council in opposition of the mask mandate.
Julie Bolthouse. Spoke to Council regarding the Leesburg Mobile Home Park and the
changes needed to ensure it remains a Mobile Home Park in the Town Plan.
Michael Miller. Spoke to Council in opposition of the vaccine mandate.
Paul Coyer. Spoke to Council in opposition of the vaccine mandate.
Maria Garcia. Spoke to Council regarding the Leesburg Mobile Home Park and the need
for changes to the Town Plan to avoid displacement of residents in the future.
Vicky Chrisner. Spoke to Council regarding snow removal and accessibility concerns.
The Petitioner's Section was closed at 7:26 p.m.
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COUNCIL MEETING January 25, 2022
12. APPROVAL OF THE CONSENT AGENDA
MOTION 2022-018
On a motion by Council Member Bagdasarian, seconded by Council Member Cummings, the following
consent agenda was proposed:
a. Replacement of Two Transformers at the Water Pollution Control Facility
RESOL UTION2022-009
Approving a Task Order for the Replacement of Two Transformers at the Water Pollution
Control Facility to Electric By J&J, LLC in the amount of$253,918.36
b. Approve Purchase of Brown's Automotive `Parcel B"
RESOLUTION2022-010
Approving a Contract for the Purchase of Brown's Automotive Parcel B and Appropriating
Funds for the Purchase.
c. Appropriation of School Proffers for Playgrounds, Play Pads, and Walking Tracks
RESOLUTION2022-011
Appropriation of School Proffers in the Amount of$1,130,000 to Fund the Construction of
Various Playground/Play Pad and Walking Track Projects by Loudoun County Public
Schools
d. Appointment to Residential Traffic Commission
RESOL UTION2022-012
Appointing Mark Norman to the Residential Traffic Commission
e. Appointment to the Tree Commission
RESOL UTION2022-013
Appointing Tom Stokes to the Tree Commission
f. Motion to Authorize the Mayor to Send a Letter to the Loudoun County Board of Supervisors
regarding Tax Revenue Generated from the Plastic Bag Tax
MOTION
I move to approve authorizing the Mayor to send a letter to the Loudoun County Board of
Supervisors requesting all tax revenue generated from eligible businesses due to the plastic bag
tax from within the Town of Leesburg and from within the other towns in Loudoun be
distributed back to the Town where the revenue was collected.
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COUNCIL MEETING January 25, 2022
The Consent Agenda was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Bagdasarian, Cummings, Fox, Nacy, Steinberg, and Mayor Burk
Nay: None
Vote: 6-0-1(Vice Mayor Martinez absent)
13. RESOLUTIONS /ORDINANCES / MOTIONS
a. Town Hall Art Exhibit by Anne Block
MOTION2022-019
On a motion by Council Member Bagdasarian, seconded by Council Member Steinberg, the
following was proposed:
RESOLUTION2022-014
Approval of Town Hall Art Exhibit by Anne Block
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Bagdasarian, Cummings, Fox, Nacy, Steinberg, and Mayor Burk
Nay: None
Vote: 6-0-1(Vice Mayor Martinez absent)
b. Removal of Commission Members for Noncompliance with COVID-19
Vaccination and Testing Program
MOTION2022-020
On a motion by Council Member Steinberg, seconded by Council Member Cummings, the
following was proposed:
RESOLUTION2022-015 •
Removal of Commission Members for Noncompliance with Town Resolution 2021-154 that
Authorized a COVID-19 Vaccination and Testing Program
Council Members commented on the resolution and mandate.
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Bagdasarian, Cummings, Steinberg, and Mayor Burk
Nay: Fox and Nacy
Vote: 4-2-1(Vice Mayor Martinez absent)
14. PUBLIC HEARINGS
a. TLOA-2020-0006 -Natural Spring Water Extraction and Bottling Plant Zoning
Ordinance Text Amendment
The Public Hearing was opened at 7:33 p.m.
Mr. Christopher Murphy presented Council with the proposed Zoning Ordinance
text amendments to establish natural spring water extraction and bottling.
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COUNCIL MEETING January 25, 2022
Public Speakers:
There were no speakers wishing to address this public hearing.
Council and staff discussed the amendments.
The public hearing was closed at 7:43 p.m.
MOTION 2022-021
On a motion by Council Member Fox, seconded by Council Member Cummings, the following
was proposed:
I move to approve the proposed ordinance approving Zoning Ordinance amendment TLOA-
2020-0006 establishing natural spring water extraction and bottling plant as a permissible use
by Special Exception in the R-E Single Family Residential Estate Zoning District with
associated revisions to Zoning Ordinance Section 9.3 Use Standards;Section 12.8 Buffers and
Screening;and, Section 18.1 Terms Defined on the basis that the amendments further the
objectives of the Town Plan and that the proposal would serve the public necessity, convenience,
general welfare and good zoning practice.
ORDINANCE 2022-0-005
Approving TLOA-2021-0006 Amending the Zoning Ordinance by Establishing
Natural Spring Water Extraction and Bottling Plant as a Permissible Use by
Special Exception in the R-E, Single-Family Residential Estate Zoning District
with Associated Revisions to Zoning Ordinance Section 9.3 Use Standards;
Section 12.8 Buffers and Screening;and, Section 18.1 Terms Defined
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Bagdasarian, Cummings, Fox, Nacy, Steinberg, and Mayor Burk
Nay: None
Vote: 6-0-1 (Vice Mayor Martinez absent)
b. TLOA-2021-0003, Donation Boxes
The Public Hearing was opened at 7:45 p.m.
Mr. Michael Watkins presented Council with the proposed Zoning Ordinance
amendments related to Donation Boxes.
Council and staff discussed the process and amended the draft Ordinance to include:
a reevaluation of the program one.year from enactment; include a required schedule for
collection with the permit; and a $250 fee for applicants.
Public Speakers:
There were no speakers wishing to address this public hearing.
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COUNCIL MEETING January 25, 2022
The public hearing was closed at 8:29 p.m.
MOTION2022-022
On a motion by Mayor Burk, seconded by Council Member Nacy, the following was proposed:
I move that the zoning text amendment application TLOA-2021-003 Donation Box be
approved subject to the following changes:a reevaluation of the program one year from
enactment;include a required schedule for collection with the permit;and a$250 fee for
applicants on the basis of the zoning text amendment:further the objectives of the Town Plan
and serve the public necessity, convenience,general welfare, and good zoning practices.
ORDINANCE 2022-0-006
Amending Zoning Ordinance Sections 9.4 Accessory Uses, 10.4.5.C Extensions
into Required Yards, and 18.1 Terms Defined, to Define and Create Use
Standards for Donation Boxes, as amended
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Bagdasarian, Cummings, Fox, Nacy, Steinberg, and Mayor Burk
Nay: None
Vote: 6-0-1(Vice Mayor Martinez absent)
c. Amending Town Code Section 2-195(b)Regarding Attendance by Members of
Town Boards and Commissions
The Public Hearing was opened at 8:31 p.m.
Mr. Christopher Spera presented Council with the proposed amendments to the
Town Code related to Board and Commission attendance which includes automatically
removing Board and Commission members for missing three consecutive meetings or four
meetings in a 12-month calendar year.
Council and Staff discussed the amendments.
Public Speakers:
There were no speakers wishing to address this public hearing.
The public hearing was closed at 8:35 p.m.
MOTION 2022-023
On a motion by Council Member Steinberg, seconded by Council Member Nacy, the following
was proposed:
ORDINANCE 2022-0-007
Amending Town Code Section 2-195(b)Regarding Attendance by Members of Town Boards
and Commissions
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COUNCIL MEETING January 25, 2022
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Bagdasarian, Cummings, Fox, Nacy, Steinberg, and Mayor Burk
Nay: None
Vote: 6-0-1(Vice Mayor Martinez absent)
15. UNFINISHED BUSINESS
a. None.
16. NEW BUSINESS
a. None.
17. COUNCIL DISCLOSURES AND COMMENTS / ADDITIONS TO FUTURE
MEETINGS
Council Member Cummings disclosed he met with representatives from the Liberty
Hospitality Group regarding a rezoning application.
Council Member Nacy disclosed she met with representatives from the Liberty Hospitality
Partners regarding a rezoning application.
Council Member Fox requested a Work Session discussion on snow removal in the Right-
of-way in response to the comments from Ms. Chrisner. Mr. Dentler provided an overview of the
111 discussion that took place earlier in the day between staff and Ms. Chrisner and the short and long
term actions to be considered as well as providing the framework for the next steps.
It was the consensus of Council to discuss this item during the budget process.
Council Member Steinberg disclosed he met with representatives of the Liberty Hospitality
Group regarding a rezoning application.
Council Member Bagdasarian disclosed he met with representatives of the Liberty
Hospitality Group regarding a rezoning, Mr. David Gregory regarding Graydon Manor and
Jennifer Smith with INMED.
18. MAYOR DISCLOSURES AND COMMENTS / ADDITIONS TO FUTURE
MEETINGS
Mayor Burk disclosed she met with Mr. Born about a rezoning at the Village at Leesburg
and with the Liberty Hospitality Group regarding the hotel. Mayor Burk met with Rabbi Cohen to
discuss a new location for a synagogue in Leesburg. Mayor Burk met with Rabbi Tow from the
Sha'are Shalom synagogue regarding the Town and future partnerships. Mayor Burk attended the
Village at Leesburg Ice Sculpture Contest and announced the winner. Mayor Burk thanked
Tammy Carter and the Martin Luther King Jr. Planning Committee for planning the MLK March
and the virtual presentation. Mayor Burk was joined by Vice Mayor Martinez and Council
Members Cummings and Steinberg in presenting Tuscarora Restaurant with a proclamation for 36
years of service to the community.
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COUNCIL MEETING January 25, 2022
19. TOWN MANAGER COMMENTS
Mr. Dentler noted to Council that the request from the Country Club neighborhood to
Council requesting improvements to the aesthetics of their neighborhood will be part of the overall
budget discussion.
20. CLOSED SESSION
a. None.
21. ADJOURNMENT
On a motion by Council Member Steinberg, seconded by Council Member Bagdasarian, the meeting
was adjourned at 8:47 p.m.
Ke Bu , ayor
Town of Leesburg
ATTEST:
Clerk of Council
2022_tcminO125
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January 25, 2022—Town Council Meeting
(Note: This is a transcript prepared by a Town contractor based on the video of the meeting. It
may not be entirely accurate. For greater accuracy,we encourage you to review the video of the
meeting that is on the Town's Web site—www.leesburgva.gov or refer to the approved Council
meeting minutes. Council meeting videos are retained for three calendar years after a meeting
per Library of Virginia Records Retention guidelines.)
Mayor Kelly Burk: Good evening. I would like to call to order the January 25th, 2022 meeting of the
Leesburg Town Council. If anyone in the room needs hearing assistance, please see the Clerk. Council
Member Bagdasarian has invited Reverend Daniel Velez-Rivera from St. Gabriel's Church to give the
invocation tonight. That will be followed by Council Member Cummings doing the salute to the flag.
Reverend?
Reverend Daniel Velez-Rivera: Good evening, all. I come before you this evening in prayer. First and
foremost, with thanksgiving for your committed service and also for your leadership, as you strive to
deliver services to help improve the quality of life in our Town. Thank you. I also come to pray with all
of you,to pray for the hopefulness of every Leesburg neighbor for those who will speak tonight and for
all the Leesburg residents whose lives are impacted by the outcomes of this meeting. In the spirit of
thanksgiving and hope, let us pray.
Almighty God, father and mother of all, send down upon those who hold office in this Town the spirit of
wisdom, charity, and justice, that with steadfast purpose, they may faithfully serve in their offices to
promote the wellbeing of all people. In the name of God,we pray.Amen. Good evening.
Mayor Burk: Thank you. Thank you, Reverend, we really appreciate you coming and taking the time
tonight.
Reverend Daniel Velez-Rivera:You're welcome.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Cummings?
Council Member Zach Cummings: I pledge allegiance,
All:To the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under
God, indivisible,with liberty and justice for all.
Mayor Burk: All right, let the record reflect that all Members of Council are here with the exception of
Vice Mayor Mr. Martinez,who is in quarantine. Do I have a motion?No,we don't have anybody remotely
tonight, okay. I have minutes from the work session of January 10th, 2022. Do I have a motion?
Council Member Cummings: So moved.
Mayor Burk: So moved by Council Member Cummings. Second?
Council Member Ara Bagdasarian: Second.
Mayor Burk: Seconded by Council Member Bagdasarian.All in favor indicate by saying aye.Opposed?
That's 6-0-1. Regular Session minutes of January 11th, 2022.
Council Member Cummings: So moved.
Mayor Burk: So moved by Mr. Cummings. Second?
Council Member Kari Nacy: Second.
Mayor Burk: Seconded by Council Member Nacy.All in favor indicate by saying aye. Opposed?That's
6-0-1.We have no recognition.We have no proclamations. Does anybody have a regional report? Oh,
Page 1 I January 25, 2022
sorry. I skipped adopting the agenda. Thank you. Do I have a motion to adopt an agenda for tonight?
So moved by Council Member Steinberg. Second?
Council Member Bagdasarian: Second.
Mayor Burk: I'll give that to Mr. Bagdasarian.All in favor indicate by saying aye. Opposed?That's 6-0-
1. Okay, now we have no certificates of recognition, proclamations, presentations. Does anybody have
a regional report?The only report I have is that the Mayors of Loudoun County met and we worked on
creating two maps for consideration for redistricting. They went to the Board of Supervisors and one of
them is one of the three that they will be considering. We also so wrote a letter in opposition to Senator
Bell's Senate Bill 255. Under this bill localities will lose all zoning authority over wireless communication
infrastructure.
Even in the public or the Town's right of way or anywhere in the County, there will be no local zoning
approval.We are definitely not in favor of that and have written a letter objecting to it.The Board Chair
went down to Richmond today and took it with her.We appreciate that. The next item on our agenda is
the Petitioner section. One of the first orders of business is to hear from the public.All members of the
public are welcome to address Council on any item, matter or issue. Please identify yourself. If
comfortable, give your address. We do ask that you state your name and spell it, and that's for the
purpose of closed captioning.
In the interest of fairness we also ask that you observe the three-minute time limit. The green light on
the timer will turn yellow at the end of two minutes, indicating you have one minute remaining. At that
time we would appreciate your summing up and yielding the floor when the bell indicates your time is
expired. Under the rules of orders adopted by this Council the three-minute time limit applies to all. I
don't have the list in front of me.
Council Member Bagdasarian: Oh, right here.
Mayor Burk: Oh, here it is, okay. All right, the first person on the list is Mr. David Drupa followed by
Jenny Hall.
David Drupa: Good evening, Town Council. My name is David Drupa, D-R-U-P A, and I live in Fox
Ridge inside the Town. I've been a Town resident since 2006 and I've been involved in Town Boards
and Commissions for close to 10 years. I'm not a member of a political party or a movement. I'm an
independent because I believe that nobody should count on my vote or expect my vote. I'm here tonight
because I believe Council's prepared to involuntarily separate folks who have not produced their
vaccination paperwork. I work for the public schools. I understand the importance of the vaccination
and I chose to be vaccinated.
I'm fully vaccinated by personal choice but I have made the personal decision to refuse to show my
papers in support of those who have made a conscious and informed decision to avoid vaccination.
This is no longer a matter of science. I believe this is simply a capricious and vindictive matter of
ideology. If this were about science, there wouldn't be two exempt boards or commissions.At Ida Lee,
I don't know if you've noticed, but you're pounced on for not wearing a mask in the hallway, but in the
most crowded room in the facility where folks are breathing and doing their cardio,there isn't a mask in
sight. I haven't seen any suffering as a result.
I say enough. If you have made a conscious decision to forego vaccination, it has no effect on me
whatsoever. It's your choice to make an informed decision. Again, I'm vaccinated by choice, but I will
not work for or work with a local government that vindictively decides and intellectually dishonestly
decides to protect us from ourselves.When science begins to catch up with the anecdotal data, I don't
expect an apology from this Council. It's more likely that we'll be told that they didn't act aggressively
enough. They didn't take away enough. In closing, I enjoyed my service to Town Council,to the Town.
I love this Town, but I will not work for or with a government that is not following the science. It's quite
that simple. Thank you for your time.
Mayor Burk:Thank you, Mr. Drupa.Jenny Hall followed by Julie Boathouse. Boahouse,sorry. I do that
all the time.
Page 2 I January 25, 2022
Jenny Hall:Jenny Hall,J-E-N-N-Y H-A-L-L. I'm curious what you all are feeling right now.I'm wondering
if you've rationalized the decision to keep the mandate. Usually, when you rationalize, you have to sift
through the feelings that contradict the decision you've made even just for a moment. Have you sensed
any feelings of remorse or regret?Are you feeling superior now as you prepare to dismiss employees?
What I'm feeling is disappointment because for months I've tried to change your mind and I've failed to
do so. You know how difficult it is to change a person's mind. Even holding jobs as collateral doesn't
always work. You didn't have to go this route.
There were so many other things you could have done as leaders to unite Leesburg during this time,
but instead you chose to implement what will be remembered everywhere that it is as inept policy. You
prolonged fear,you disregarded previous infection and the immunity it does bring.You ignored people's
pleas to let them decide what's right for their own health, and you spoke as though you were heroes
saving lives and in the same breath, you snubbed the lives of those who questioned your approach.
Now you will discard them. Is that really how you like to govern? I'm still waiting for you to make it make
sense. You haven't answered my questions. You haven't countered the logic I presented, and you've
been silent.Why?Why, if you wholeheartedly believe in this,will you not respond to me?
Mayor Burk: Thank you, Miss Hall followed by Julie Bolthouse,who is followed by Michael Miller.
Julie Bolthouse: Good evening. I'm Julie Bolthouse, a resident of Leesburg. I am also the Deputy
Director of Land Use for Piedmont Environmental Council. I'm speaking as both a resident and as a
representative from Piedmont Environmental Council. When I thank you, not that I don't know what
happened behind the scenes, but I am so happy to read the news about the Mobile Home Park sale
not moving forward. With the proposal of 80 units at the site, townhouse units, it was very sad to see
what was very obviously gentrification. I mean, literally replacing an 80 for 80. 80 new townhouse units
at market rate for 80 mobile home units would have been horrendous for this Town.
It would have been a scar that we would have to live with for decades, I think. I am so happy to see that
come to an end. However, now is when the hard work starts. I am hoping that the handout that I gave
Elaine has been passed out to you guys. That is what is currently in your comprehensive plan for this
area. As a Town, we need to take a very close look at that, and we need to think about community
enhancement that integrates the existing Mobile Home Park. This is possible. It's been done in
Manassas with the East End Mobile Home Community. It's been done at Bermuda Estates in
Chesterfield County. It's been done in Ohio.
It's been done in other places where a non-profit has worked with municipalities in a large partnership
with other groups out there like PEC and Virginia Poverty Law Center and the Virginia New Majority.
There is a lot of non-profits that are waiting here to see what you guys do next. The first step you need
to do is you need to take that picture that shows a redevelopment of that site into townhouses out of
your Comp Plan because we need to have a clear message going to potential funders and going to
potential non-profits that can step in and help with the solution here, that makes it clear that Leesburg
is fully on board and wants to keep the existing Mobile Home Park and enhance the community. Thank
you.
Mayor Burk: Thank you. Ms. Bolthouse is followed by Mr. Miller,who is followed by Mr. Coyer.
Michael Miller: Good evening. Michael Miller, M-I-C-H-A-E-L M-I-L-L-E-R.
Mayor Burk: Thank you.
Michael Miller: I've been here before talking about mandates. If you won't listen to us, maybe you'll
listen to a former president, Teddy Roosevelt, 1903,who said, "There are plenty of countries like ours,
governed under the same laws, and the net outcome is absolutely different because behind these laws
lies a different set of men who determine the success or failure of any republic, and there is no patent
advice for getting good citizenship.We need strong bodies, and more than that,we need strong minds.
More than that, we need character into which many elements enter. The principle ones being honesty
in its widest and deepest sense, decency, morality. These make a man a good father, husband,
employer, good man in his relations to his state, and something more. It matters nothing how good a
Page 3 I January 25, 2022
man be if he is afraid. You can't do a thing with him. The man who sits at home in the parlor and
bemoans his fate will never succeed. We need more of daring, strength, and will. When we say he is
not a good man but a man we say a good deal, but we must also be able to say he is a real sensible
man, for in every man we need the saving grace of common sense. If we fail in developing these
qualities in our average citizenship, we shall fail as a nation."
What Roosevelt was talking about is what mattered was morality and character,that that was essential
for good citizenship, and not only citizenship, but also being a good employee. I don't know what's
combined more so than those who are on the docket today to be removed for non-compliance,who are
doing both, who are both employees and good citizens, and attempting to do so by serving their
community. Now they're being ostracized and told that they're going to have to be fired, be taken off
because of not getting a vaccine, and not getting a vaccine because it goes against their conscience.
It's very easy for somebody to just go along. It's very different when they decide to stand up for their
principles and their values. That takes real character, and I'm not sure how many are just doing it
because you told them they had to do it and they're doing it to save their jobs.These people are standing
up because of what they believe in, because their conscience will be violated if they take a vaccine. I
don't know why we would want to violate people's consciences when that's what guides them to decide
what's right and wrong, especially when people are not looking and watching. Why wouldn't those
people be the people that we want in positions like that to be commissioners for this city?Thank you.
Mayor Burk:Thank you, Mr. Miller. Mr. Coyer is our last speaker. Is there anybody in the audience that
would like to speak?After he's done, you're welcome to come up.
Paul Coyer: Good evening. My name is Dr. Paul Coyer,as you're all aware. I'm a professor, a historian
and a resident of Leesburg, and at least for the next few minutes, sit on the advisory panel for the
Thomas Balch Library. I joined the commission,as I've said before,due to my love of community service
and love of country. The vaccine mandate appears to be headed to shortening that service,
unfortunately. As Mr. Drupa said, in his case, he is vaxed and boosted. I haven't ever told anybody,
except for my wife and a couple of close friends,what my status is. As Mr. Drupa said, it's simply none
of your business.
We've heard in many previous meetings from Town employees begging you not to do this. We know
that it's had a very big and very negative impact on the community and the Police Department as well
as other parts of the community. As stated previously, such policy decisions should be based upon
good data and sound reasoning. We've already established in previous discussions that that was not
the case in this instance. Not only was there not a significant body of data considered, but no data was
considered.We know that the data shows that vaccine mandates don't work.
Just the most recent example is that Omicron is spreading through people that are not vaxed or are
vaxed with equal virility, pun intended. Even those double and triple-vaxed, walking around double-
masked with virtual hazmat suits are still getting the Omicron. Israeli study shows that natural immunity
"longer-lasting and stronger protection versus infection than the vaccine, up to 13 times greater."Israel,
which has one of the highest COVID vaccination rates in the world with about half of citizens having
received three shots is nevertheless leading the world in new daily cases per capita.
Again, we know that this body doesn't really care about the data because your political agenda is so
evident. We also know that mandates are only the beginning. This is clearly about political control, not
health or the goodwill of the community. Your coercive approach to governance is going to be seen in
other areas. This is just one area. It's equally clear that we're headed toward a segregated society in
which those who comply are allowed to fulfill a role in society, and those that do not are not. I for one
am very happy to be labeled non-compliant. Bragging that 97% of Town employees were forced to
comply is a breathtaking display of political ineptness.
It illustrates a complete lack of concern for the exercise of true leadership. Coerced consent is not
consent. This should just be commonsense. According to Trafalgar Group, nearly three-quarters of all
Americans of all political stripes disagree with mandates. Americans have never taken kindly to being
told what to do. This isn't changing any time soon, particularly given the course and dictatorial manner
in which such mandates have been rolled out across the country including here in this Town. Shut up
Page 4 January 25, 2022
and do as we say, isn't good leadership and will ensure political backlash. We're already seeing that
across the United States.
Mayor Burk: Thank you, Mr. Coyer.
Paul Coyer: Thank you.
Mayor Burk:Appreciate it.Anybody in the audience that wants to speak at this point?Please remember
to spell your name for closed captioning.
Maria Garcia: My name is Maria Garcia. [Spanish]
Interpreter: I'm going to translate. My name is Maria Garcia, M-A-R-I-A G-A-R-C-I-A. I'm a resident of
Leesburg Mobile Park.As you all know, Darius Saeidi is no longer going to purchase Leesburg Mobile
Park.While my neighbors and I were relieved to hear this news,we are still very worried about what is
going to happen with our Mobile Home Park.We want you to know that we, the residents of Leesburg
Mobile Park are still here, we are still organized, and we are still fighting for our home. We know that
we are still not safe from displacement. We are ready to do whatever it takes to save our homes, but
we cannot do it alone.
I want to ask you to help us to keep Leesburg Mobile Park preserved as a home for low-income working-
class families. We ask that you change the draft Town Plan to include Leesburg Mobile Park. Please
do not erase us from your maps.We know that this alone will not be enough to stop redevelopment and
displacement, but it gives the Town another tool to use to support the preservation of our community.
For five months, you have been telling us that you cannot intervene in a private sale. Now there is no
sale so we look forward to hearing what the Town can do at our meeting with Mayor Burk and Vice
Mayor Martinez next week to discuss options for preserving the park.
Mayor Burk:Thank you.Thank you very much. Is there anyone else that would like to speak that didn't
have a chance?
Vicky Chrisner: I'm sorry, how long do I have?
Mayor Burk: Three minutes.
Vicky Chrisner: My name is Vicky Chrisner,that's V-I-C-K-Y C-H-R-I-S-N-E-R. I'm here tonight to talk
to you about snow removal.After waiting a week to see the sidewalks cleared that my husband takes
his mobility scooter on every day to go to work, I noticed that they're not getting any better, I finally
called the Town yesterday. After several hours, I got somebody on the phone who told me that, "Gee,
this is the first time hearing of this problem." I thought, "Do you go to work in Leesburg? Do you do it
with your eyes open?You're in charge of the streets."
My challenge to you, my friends, is to not drive home tonight. Don't drive for the next week. You figure
out how you're going to get to and from work every day for the next week and then imagine that that is
because the people who work for your Town don't look at the roads that you take. That's a problem.
Sorry, it's a problem. People with disabilities need to be able to get to work. They need to be able to do
it independently and we need you to just do your job, to get it done, all week. My husband can't get to
work because you guys can't clear the sidewalks and it's not just because you can't clear the sidewalk,
you have contractors who pile eight feet of snow onto the handicap ramps, and you let it sit there and
you're waiting for what?
The sun to melt it. It's 20 degrees for the last week. It doesn't work that way. I need this Town to step it
up. I need this Town to do better and it's not just my husband. There are lots of disabled people and
there are lots of people who can't drive for lots of reasons. You might notice them out when it's not
snowing, walking on our streets. We have a lot of pedestrians, and we need to make it safe for our
pedestrians and we need an accessible route for people who need that.
I made the following suggestions. We need to identify with the equivalent of a snow emergency route
for pedestrians, and it needs to be an accessible route and we need to address that the same way we
Page 5 I January 25,2022
do our streets. I'm not talking about my neighborhood streets. I'm talking about Catoctin, King, Market,
big streets. We need to be able to do that. We also need to make it the requirement that every person
who works for this Town including our Police Department, keep their eyes open and notice hazards
within the Town.
If there is a mountain of snow over the place where you normally have a sidewalk crossing, obviously
that's a hazard for everybody. I need those things to be done.Also, along the snow emergency routes,
I did make the suggestion that rather than leaning into those businesses and trying to force them to
comply, it might be easier for us to just take that responsibility on as a Town even if that means
implementing a special tax district for those particular businesses because this needs to be a priority
for our Town. Thank you.
Mayor Burk: Thank you, Miss Chrisner. Is there anybody else that did not sign up that would like to
speak at this point? All right, there is nobody at this point so I will close the petitioner section. Thank
you, all, very much for coming. That takes us to the consent agenda. The consent agenda, I will read
these and then ask if anyone wants to take anything off. 12A, Replacement of Two Transformers at the
Water Pollution Control Facility be approved. Purchase of Browns Automotive, Parcel B.
C, Appropriation of School Proffers for Playground, Play Pads, and Walking Tracks. D,Appointment to
the Residential Traffic Committee of Mr. Mark Norman and Appointment to the Tree Commission from
Council Member Steinberg of Tom Stokes, in a Motion to Authorize the Mayor to Send a Letter to the
Loudoun County Board of Supervisors regarding the Tax Revenue Generated from the Plastic Bag Tax.
Is there anything anybody wants removed?All right, do I have a motion?
Council Member Bagdasarian: So moved.
Mayor Burk: So moved by Council Member Bagdasarian.
Council Member Cummings: Second.
Mayor Burk: Seconded by Council Member Cummings. All in favor?
Council Members: Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed?That's 6-0-1.All right,that takes us to our resolution. Our first resolution is the
Town Hall art exhibit by Ann Block. Do I have a motion to approve this?
Council Member Bagdasarian: So moved.
Mayor Burk: So moved by Council Member Bagdasarian. Second?
Council Member Neil Steinberg: Second.
Mayor Burk: Council Member Steinberg.Any discussion?All in favor indicate by saying aye.
Council Members:Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed? That's 601. Number B is the Removal of Commission Members for Non-
Compliance with the COVID-19 Vaccine and Testing Program. Is there a motion?
Council Member Steinberg: So moved.
Mayor Burk: Council Member Steinberg. Second?
Council Member Cummings: Second.
Mayor Burk: Council Member Cummings.Any discussion?
Page 6 I January 25, 2022
Council Member Nacy: I do have.
Mayor Burk:All right, Miss Nacy.
Council Member Nacy: Thank you. Just want to pull up my notes really quickly. It's not going to be
anything new that I haven't been saying since October,just some things that I want on the record for
public knowledge. First and foremost, I think we should be following suit with the now Federal court
rulings, a Supreme Court ruling, State rulings, and even here locally Loudoun County Schools who are
no longer enforcing vaccine mandates or testing.
I think we're putting ourselves in a very precarious situation by not following what we attached this
mandate to in the first place,which was the Federal guidelines,which are now all on hold, injunctions,
or have been shot down by the Supreme Court. In particular, I'd like to address Police Department
vacancies. This is what I want on record. Between the vacancies and retirements that already existed
and the 11 officers we lost due to this mandate, there are now 31 Police Officer vacancies in the Town
of Leesburg out of 90 sworn officers.That is one third. If you've noticed crime go up recently in Leesburg
and wondered why,pretty sure there's your answer.We have a responsibility to the citizens of Leesburg
and this is absolutely unacceptable and we need to course correct immediately.
Mayor Burk:All right, Ms. Fox.
Council Member Suzanne Fox: I've spoken out against this mandate time and again and it looks like
I'll have to continue to do so, as I anticipate this affecting current and future hiring. Four commissioners
are being forced out of service this evening, a fifth, I believe, quit because of partisan mandate that is
unnecessary, invasive and fails to even address the problem Council purports to be worried about.
Three of these commissioners are my appointees, a fact which is not lost on me. Do we all feel safer
now?
These are commissioners who meet together once or twice a month and do the vast majority of their
work remotely and wear masks when they meet. Some of them have already had COVID and therefore
enjoy a natural immunity that all studies and data indicate is superior to vaccinations in preventing new
infections.At least two of them have been vaccinated in boosted and simply refuse to comply with what
they perceive to be gross overreach and invasion of their privacy. We have had countless petitioners
from all over the political spectrum come and petition us to stop the mandate madness,offering concrete
data, rendering this mandate moot or even counterproductive.
Some of this data has been offered to us in a form that we could review, vet and check sources. I've
watched as some Council Members toss the information aside in total disregard. Given the staggering
lack of data that we're provided in making this decision,the indifference to the data we have been given
by a petitioner since this decision was made is really rather remarkable. This Council doesn't seem to
want to hear that it's made a bad decision. It's beyond obvious at this point that the decision to dig in
heels and plug ears, as people are asking you to be reasonable is evidence that this is not about safety.
It's about compliance by our own admission.
It's also about control and punishing those who've refused to tow a partisan line. Four of us up here
have had a discussion not so long ago about dissolving commissions.We all decided against it because
every one of us agreed that we should never take for granted the service the community members
render on behalf of their Town. Now three of those same four Council Members see certain commission
members as disposable and flawed because they don't agree with giving government their personal
medical information. This loss is not only unfortunate, but it's an enforced error as it's neither required
by federal or state law.
I have heard several Council Members suggest we're just doing what everybody else is doing,which is
of course nonsense. There is a reason why our particular policy made regional and national news. By
refusing to allow a weekly testing alternative we have embraced a particularly draconian version of the
mandate that is both extreme and unreasonable with zero evidence that it makes us any safer. To the
five commissioners and the many of other employees who have been terminated or forced to resign,
I'm sorry.
Page 7 I January 25,2022
I'm sorry that the data and science did not prevail in our decision making process. I'm sorry that your
rights were not respected and perhaps, most of all, I'm sorry that we, as a Town did not have enough
respect for you to allow you to make your own medical decisions. Thank you and good luck in your
future endeavors.
Mayor Burk: Thank you. Anyone else have any comments at this point?All in favor of the Removal of
the Commission Members for Non-Compliance with COVID-19 Vaccination and Testing Program
indicate it by saying aye.
Members:Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed?That passes 4-2-1. All right, public hearing. Let me read the directions on the
public hearing. This is the TLOA-2020-0006 Natural Spring Water Extraction and Bottling Plant Zoning
Ordinance Text Amendment. I call to order this January 25th,2022 public hearing of the Leesburg Town
Council. Unless there is an objection, I will dispense with the reading of the advertisement.
If you wish to speak, we ask that you either sign up on the sheet in the hallway outside of the Council
Chambers but if you did not get the opportunity to sign up,we will give you the opportunity to speak. In
the interest of fairness,we also ask that you observe the three minute time limit. The green light in front
of you will turn yellow at the end of two minutes indicating your one minute remaining.At that time, we
would appreciate your summing up and yielding the floor when the bell indicates your time has expired.
Under the rules of orders adopted by this Council, the five minute time limit applies to all citizens.
However, rather than having numerous citizens present remarks on behalf of a group, the Council will
allow a spokesperson for the group a few extra minutes. In that instance,we would ask speakers when
they sign up to indicate their status as spokesperson, the group they represent, and the request for
additional time. Our procedure for the public hearing is as follows. First, there's a brief presentation by
staff about the item before us. Second, members of the public that have signed up to speak will be
called and given five minutes to make their comments. The public hearing item on the agenda tonight
is for TLOA-2020-0006 Natural Spring Water Extraction and Bottling Plant Zoning Ordinance Text
Amendment. Mr. Murphy.
Christopher Murphy: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Good evening, Madam Mayor, Members of Council.
I'm here this evening to present the staff report for Zoning Ordinance amendment TLOA-2020-0006.
This amendment intends to establish natural spring water extraction and bottling plant as a permissible
agricultural use in the R-E zoning district. These revisions also address density/intensity and
dimensional standards, establish minimum use standards, establish applicable buffers and screening,
and a definition for the subject use.
This amendment comes to Council with a recommendation of approval from the Planning Commission,
contingent upon an adjustment to the hours of operation for outdoor activities from 10:00 PM to 6:00
AM to instead 9:00 PM to 7:00.The draft ordinance presented to you this evening already includes that
change. Staff also recommends approval the draft ordinance dated January 25th, 2022 and that's
included in the packet for this evening's meeting.
The genesis of this ordinance amendment stems from a petition from the owners of the Big Spring Farm
requesting Zoning Ordinance amendments that would make it possible for them to harvest spring water
from the Town's spring and big spring sources on their property. The intent behind this is to generate
revenues that will support the permanent preservation of the Big Spring House, the farm complex and
the grounds. In response, Council initiated Zoning Ordinance amendments to Articles 5, 9, 18 and
others as necessary by adopting Resolution 2020-083 on August 11th, 2020.
Council will note that if these amendments before you are approved, this only enables the submission
of future legislative applications seeking to establish water extraction and bottling operations and
nothing more. So there's no confusion, you're not approving anything in any particular place. With that
we begin with the amendment to Zoning Ordinance Section 5.1.2 establishing a natural spring water
extraction and bottling plant as an agricultural use subject to approval of a special exception with
reference to minimum use standards and a definition.
Page 8 January 25,2022
Next, is the amendments to Section 5.1.3C that includes note number two establishing a minimum 50
foot setback for buildings housing the water extraction bottling plant operations. New minimum use
standards are established in Zoning Ordinance Section 9.3.15.1. These are the absolute minimum
standards any spring water extraction bottling plant operation must adhere to and these include special
exception approval as required.Water must come from naturally occurring sources on the property, no
detectable odor, smoke, radiation or particulate matter can be detectable at the property line.
No outdoor activities between the hours of 9:00 PM and 7:00 AM, no outdoor storage uses unless
approved as part of the special exception,and bottling plant operations limited to existing buildings only,
they're fully enclosed and soundproof to a maximum of 55 decibels at the property line.As natural spring
water extraction bottling plant will be a special exception use,the special exception process authorizes
Town Council to apply additional mitigations deemed necessary to address potential impacts from such
a use on a particular property.That's identified through the legislative review process. These standards
here we're establishing a 9.3.15.1 will set the bar for that.
Zoning Ordinance Section 12.8.4 divides land uses into four major land use categories for the purpose
of determining adequate buffers and screening. Those categories are residential, institutional,
commercial, or industrial. This amendment would include natural spring water extraction and bottling
plant as a commercial use with a CC designation. As such, when adjacent to a single family detached
development,a CC use requires a minimum of 50-foot wide S3 screen.This is one of the more intensive
screening requirements of the Zoning Ordinance. Then, finally, the definition of farming will be revised
to include the extraction of groundwater from naturally occurring sources on a farm property as part of
what constitutes farming.
I conclude my presentation with suggested motions to aid Council. Again, this amendment comes to
you with the Planning Commission's and staffs recommendations of approval. I have one error on the
ordinance that you have in your packet right now. Eileen asked me to point this out to you. There's a
cut and paste error on the third paragraph, a date for the PC vote or Planning Commission vote was
November 18, not July 15 as written in the ordinance. I'm making that correction. When you get the
ordinance to sign, Madam Mayor, it will be corrected. Thank you for your attention. I'll take any
questions.
Mayor Burk: Any questions from anybody at this point?Yes, Mr. Steinberg.
Council Member Steinberg: Thanks. Chris, out of curiosity, would an applicant be responsible for
some form of study in a given area that says this is an acceptable extraction of the resource over a
period of time or any kind of study whatsoever to show that it's feasible and not necessarily
environmentally harmful?
Christopher Murphy:Well,there's nothing from an environmental standpoint. However,there are very
specific requirements by the State before you can extract spring water for sale to the public for public
consumption. Those measures are definitely going to be required to meet the State standards in order
to get the permits necessary to do that. It's going to require not only the quality of the water but the
volume of the water that's being produced.
It's my understanding that it's not the intention to put a pump on this water source and try to draw water
out more than it naturally flows. It's my understanding that there's a lot of water flowing from this site.
We're talking tens of thousands of gallons a day all day sense. I don't foresee any issues of ground
subsidence as a result of this. Again, to answer your question, the State will be looking at various
aspects with at least the health and safety of the water.
Council Member Steinberg: You're saying in this regulation, it has to be a natural spring as opposed
to say drilling a well and then starting to pull water from an aquifer.
Christopher Murphy: Yes, right.
Council Member Steinberg: Okay,thank you.
Page 9 I January 25, 2022
Mayor Burk: Question? I do. I wondered why do you suggest changing the time from, it was 10:00 to
6:00, and you're suggesting changing it to 9:00 to 7:00?
Christopher Murphy:The Planning Commission felt that ten o'clock was too late and 6:00 AM the start
was too early. They changed the times to 9:00 and 7:00. The draft before you does that, but originally
it was drafted 10:00 to 6:00 to correspond with the noise ordinance that's in the Zoning Ordinance today.
Mayor Burk: I'm a little confused. I'm sorry.We've changed it from 9:00 in the morning to 7:00 at night?
Christopher Murphy: No.
Mayor Burk:We've changed it to 10:00 in the morning.
Christopher Murphy: No.
Mayor Burk: See, I told you I was confused.
Christopher Murphy: The following plant operations according to the ordinances in front of you today
as suggested by the Planning Commission, as adopted by the Planning Commission to recommend
you, they can't operate after 9:00 PM or before 7:00 AM.
Mayor Burk: Oh, okay. Now I got it.
Christopher Murphy: Okay.
Mayor Burk: Thank you.
Council Member Fox: I have a follow-up to that.
Mayor Burk: Yes.
Council Member Fox: Is there an issue with that if our noise ordinance says different?
Christopher Murphy: No. This is a rezoning and you as the legislative body have the authority to set
it because if you have the authority to do that.You can write the rules for this as you so wish.
Chris Spera: Ms. Fox, Mr. Murphy is correct. Your noise ordinance is essentially off the shelf, but you
are allowed in the context of doing specific zoning to set different standard and conditions, which is
what's happening here.
Mayor Burk: Miss Nacy.
Council Member Nacy: Just a tiny follow up to all of that. This is just for this specific zoning. It would
not affect the noise ordinance overall.
Christopher Murphy: Correct.
Council Member Nacy: Thank you.
Mayor Burk: All right, do I have a motion? Oh, members of the public, would anybody like to speak?
There is nobody in the public. I will close the public hearing at this point. Is there anybody that would
like to make a motion, Miss Fox?
Council Member Fox: I'd like to,thank you. Do I have to read the [crosstalk]?
Mayor Burk: You have to read it. Sorry.
Page 10 I January 25, 2022
Council Member Fox: Okay, I move to approve the proposed ordinance approving Zoning Ordinance
amendment TLOA-2020-0006 establishing natural spring water extraction and bottling plant as a
permissible use by Special Exception in the R-E Single Family Residential Estate Zoning District with
associated revisions to Zoning Ordinance Section 9.3 Use Standards; Section 12.8 Buffers and
Screening; and, Section 18.1 Terms Defined on the basis that the amendments further the objectives
of the Town Plan and that the proposal would serve the public necessity, convenience, general welfare
and good zoning practice.
Mayor Burk: Is it there a second?
Council Member Cummings: Second.
Mayor Burk: I gave it to you before, so I'm going to give it to you, Mr. Cummings.All in favor or indicate
by saying aye.
Members: Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed?All right,thank you.
Council Member Cummings: Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
Mayor Burk: Absolutely. The next one is the boxes. I call to order this January 25th public hearing at
the Leesburg Town Council. Unless there is an objection, I will dispense with the reading of the
advertisement. If you wish to speak,we ask that you either sign up on the sheet in the hallway outside
of Council Chambers, but if you did not get the opportunity to sign up we will give you the opportunity
to speak. In the interest of fairness,we also ask that you observe the three minute time limit. The green
light in front of you will turn yellow at the end of two minutes indicating you have one minute remaining.
At that time, we would appreciate your summing up and yielding the floor when the bell indicates your
time is expired. Under the rules of order adopted by this Council, the five minute time limit applies to all
citizens. However, rather than have numerous citizens present remarks on behalf of the group, the
Council will allow a spokesperson for the group a few extra minutes. In that instance, we would ask
speakers when they sign up to indicate their status as spokesperson,the group they represent and the
request for additional time.
Our procedure for the public hearing is as follows. First, there is a brief presentation by staff about the
item before us. Second, members of the public that have signed up to speak will be called and given
five minutes to make their comments. The public hearing agenda item for tonight is TLOA-2021-0003
Donation Boxes. Mr.Watkins.
Michael Watkins: Madam Mayor, Members of Council, good evening. Before you is the requested
Zoning Text Amendment for Donation Boxes.This item is before Council due to the boxes being located
in prominent locations.This tends to typically obstruct site distance,consumer required parking spaces,
lead to illegal dumping, and can obstruct travel ways and pedestrian paths. These issues contribute to
potential public safety issues, regulatory compliance and general questions of maintenance
responsibilities. These amendments were initiated by you on April 27th of last year.
The purpose is to define donation boxes an accessory use, create use standards addressing potential
attractive nuisances, and primarily minimizing the visibility of the containers. This slide shows you
examples of donation boxes scattered throughout Town. Not affected by this ordinance are uses that
have received their zoning permits for the principle use. That would be the Salvation Army donation
store, the ReStore, and Goodwill remain unaffected. The approach that staff took, we reviewed other
jurisdictions like we do with normal text amendments.We analyzed impact on uses.This was identifying
appropriate zoning districts.
We analyzed location.Again, here, lessening the container's visual presence,the intensity,the number
that the accessory use can be, the aesthetic, screening the enclosures, and an enforcement to zoning
permit and maintenance requirements. Planning Commission held this public hearing on December 16th
of 2021. There were no public speakers. The notable discussion from the Planning Commission
Page 11 I January 25, 2022
included a staff recommendation for an enclosure requirement that was eliminated with this draft text.
The container size, how large are they? The timeframe to bring existing boxes into compliance. Then
review fees.The Planning Commission made a suggestion to Council that there's no zoning permit fees
for this use.
The draft text still has the fee. There is an action for Council to discuss whether or not there should be
a fee for these. The commission voted 5-0-2 to recommend approval of the text amendment. There is
a definition. The definition is an untended container, receptacle or similar device used for the purpose
of soliciting and collecting donated items. A donation box is not a recycling container. This slide shows
you the respective zoning districts where they would be and would not be permitted.
The proposed use standards addressed locating these outside public rights of way, meaning
maintaining that they're 20 feet from a right of way. In certain circumstances, the required yard is
different from the yard that's between the principal structure and the right of way. That's the difference
between public right of way and the 20-foot from a right of way. They need to be outside the required
front and side yards, again, minimizing its visibility. They cannot consume required parking spaces.
They must be located outside required landscaping areas and cannot obstruct pedestrian paths or
vehicular access. Regarding maintenance,the property owner must give written consent for the permit.
Zoning permit is required which assists us with enforcement efforts. The property owner is primarily
responsible for ensuring the regular collection of donated items. Then, lastly, the property owner is
responsible for maintenance of the enclosure which must be kept in good condition.We did include two
exceptions. The first is the zoning district exception. If you have a community or institutional use,that's
the exception of the residential district. That's the only exception for use. An example of that would be
a church or school. The second is, again, focused on the aesthetic. The size of the container can be
increased if it's designed to be aesthetically pleasing.
These two circumstances that I've shown you there's some attempt to camouflage or enhance the
appearance of the structure.Again, as I mentioned previously,fees is a consideration the Council must
consider. The Planning Commission recommended no fee. Staff is recommending retaining the
commercial fee. This would offset the administrative costs of processing the application. Lastly, I've got
two suggested motions for you, one with no changes, and then one with the changes for the fees. I'm
here to answer any questions that you may have.
Mayor Burk:All right, anyone have any questions? Mr. Bagdasarian?
Council Member Bagdasarian:Yes, one question.Thank you, sir.What did the Planning Commission
advise about the enclosures? Did they speak against that or did they support?
Michael Watkins: They did. Following the guidance that I got from Council, the draft ordinance that
went to the Planning Commission proposed to enclose the structures. The Planning Commission as a
body decided that they had concerns with the typical design of the structure and the cost to construct
it.
Council Member Bagdasarian: Thanks.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Steinberg.
Council Member Steinberg: Oh,thank you.Thanks for the presentation. I'm going to start out with the
Grinch question first and then the others.We've had individuals who are involved in organizations, like
you pointed out, who told us that these collection boxes collect materials from our area, but they don't
benefit our area. Now I appreciate that you have all kinds of agencies that may work all over the world.
I also know for a fact that one of the primary movers with these collection boxes has a notorious
reputation at best. Not wanting to be Grinch-like, the obvious question is why do we want them at all
when we have any number of organizations in Town who are already in the business of collecting and
donating things just like this?
Page 12 I January 25, 2022
Michael Watkins: That's an interesting question. I would point it back to Council the initiation was to
camouflage or to reduce its prominence or visibility, but there's nothing that prohibits Council from
prohibiting these accessory structures.
Council Member Steinberg: I'll tuck that away for a second. Out of curiosity, the four examples you
showed us early in your presentation. Here we go. Do any of those comply? Well, I can see that the
four boxes sitting there would not based on the sheer number of them, but do any of these examples?
Actually,they would not comply?
Michael Watkins: No.
Council Member Steinberg: Okay. Who is responsible for the permit?
Michael Watkins: The property owner has to consent to it. It would be the individual box proprietor, I
guess, if you want to call it something.
Council Member Steinberg: The owners of the boxes,they're the ones who would be responsible for
acquiring the permit and then passing it on to the property owner should the property owner consent.
Michael Watkins: The individual box, box X, would come into Town with the owner's consent for a
zoning permit.
Council Member Steinberg:Okay,one of the things that precipitated this action was the fact that some
of these boxes were simply getting dropped on properties without permission. How does this ordinance
address that specific situation? Should we approve these or not?
Michael Watkins: Retroactively,we can approach the property owners in an effort to bring those boxes
that are on private property in the compliance, outside of that, we would use the normal enforcement
mechanisms that we have in the ordinance to, again, courtesy letter, notice of violation, [crosstalk]--
Council Member Steinberg:Well, I guess the question is, in the end, if there's no satisfaction, is it the
property owner who's going to be responsible for having the box removed, as opposed to the Town
picking them up and--okay.
Michael Watkins: Yes, sir.
Council Member Steinberg:All right,and then how does this ordinance inform the various businesses
of what the regulations are?
Michael Watkins: We don't really codify our educational outreach, just like what we did with that
homestay, we take a varied approach in educating the public. We would do the Facebook Lives, we
would do a brochure if need be, Economic Development and the Department of Planning and Zoning
would do outreach.We don't codify those efforts but we would take the normal and customary approach
to educating property owners.
Council Member Steinberg: Okay. Out of curiosity, do the location requirements in rule two apply to
the exceptions in rule seven? For example, off-street parking.You mentioned, in a residential, you may
have an institutional use, like a house of worship, whatever, they have a parking lot, one assumes it's
going to go somewhere.
Michael Watkins: Right,the same standards would apply to everybody. The only exception would be,
one,to allow it in a residential district if it were institution or our community-related, and then secondly,
if the box could be enlarged if it was as aesthetically pleasing.Outside of that,all the other use standards
have to be complied with.
Council Member Steinberg: So a larger enclosure is permissible only in a residential institutional use
or there's others?
Page 13 I January 25, 2022
Michael Watkins: All of them. The exception of the rule would be-- no matter what district you're in, if
you treat the enclosure architecturally, then you have the ability to request a larger container.
Council Member Steinberg: Under no circumstances in the B1.
Michael Watkins: Correct.
Council Member Steinberg: Under any circumstances.
Michael Watkins: Right.
Council Member Steinberg: Okay. I'm curious, I see that the regulation is trying to build in some
flexibility. What do we consider unusual or unforeseen circumstances? I'm concerned that, right away,
we're setting ourselves up for all kinds of exceptions. I'm wondering if we accept that, if we're not better
off saying, "These are the situations. If your property can't meet these particular conditions, then we're
sorry, but the box can't go there."
Michael Watkins:Yes. It's a difficult question to answer,and that's why we try to include some flexibility
in the ordinance is that there may be an exception with a lot size. It could be an exception with the
orientation of building, it could be an exception where there is appropriate landscaping. It's difficult to
encapsulate all those what-ifs in the ordinance.What we do is the Zoning Administrator takes in his or
her consideration,those circumstances while protecting public safety,welfare,things of that nature.
Council Member Steinberg: I understand, [unintelligible 00:59:16], did the Planning Commission
explain why they weren't interested in having an administration fee? I can imagine why, but did they
specifically state why?
Michael Watkins: Restate your question again.
Council Member Steinberg: Why they were willing to waive an administrative fee, other than the fact
that it's presumed a charitable thing?
Michael Watkins: I think it was based on the fact that it was for charity.
Council Member Steinberg:Okay. Let's see, 18.1.441 defines these as not being recycling containers.
Now, I'm a little concerned because that big example you showed us has a recycling symbol right on
the side of it.What's?--
Michael Watkins: This particular proprietor, part of their program is environmental awareness. It's got
nothing to do with the fact that they collect donated items, it's more about their mission and their goal.
Council Member Steinberg:Then,finally, it says in the staff report,this should be considered now as-
- for any new development. As a suggestion that this actually becomes a conversation for any new
development that this is a potential and you should consider it a new development, I'm not quite sure
what to do with that[crosstalk].
Michael Watkins:At the Planning Commission level,there are a few commissioners who were curious
about how this would be accommodated in the future. It was their suggestion to include a suggestion
that when developers and landowners are looking at development on their property, that maybe some
thought should be given as to whether or whether or not they want to accommodate these
[unintelligible] structures.
Council Member Steinberg: Did the Planning Commission have any input from, what I refer to, as
stakeholders in the community who might have weighed in with opinions on this whole thing?
Michael Watkins: No public speakers, and I wasn't contacted by the public either.
Page 14 I January 25, 2022
Council Member Steinberg:Okay,all right.Well,finally, as a comment, I might ask Council to consider
not allowing these at all, but it'd be interesting to hear other people's comments. Thanks.
Mayor Burk: Ms. Fox.
Council Member Fox: Thank you. You may have answered this, but I didn't hear it. Townwide, how
many of these accessory structures do we have townwide?
Michael Watkins: Over 50.
Council Member Fox: Over 50? How many of those 50 are not in compliance?
Michael Watkins: I would say, probably, 90% or more are not compliant.
Council Member Fox:Whoa. Okay. Under number five maintenance, I saw that the property owner is
responsible for the upkeep, and you're saying a lot of these property owners aren't even in Town.
Correct?You're not talking about the business owners, you're talking about the box. It says, "Collected
on regular basis." Have we defined that? Or is that defined in the application process?
Michael Watkins: It's there for enforcement tools. Again, Council could dictate, if they so chose, by
putting a standard in there,the collection of the items. I would say from a staff perspective, it's going to
become an enforcement nightmare to police whether or not they picked up on the respective dates or
the frequency. Putting in the language that says you're responsible for the regular collection, with
documentation,we can pursue enforcement based on the language that's in the ordinance.
Council Member Fox: My suggestion--this is just for consideration, is during the application process,
have some kind of proviso they're stipulating this is when it's going to be collected, put it on them, and
enforce as necessary, I suppose. Just let them know that we expect some regularity and we want to
know what that regularity would be. That would be my suggestion.
Michael Watkins: Great. It's a good one. The ordinance does allow the zoning administrator to put
reasonable conditions of approval on the permit.We'll keep that under advisement.
Council Member Fox: Okay. My last comment is, I will keep the fee,honestly. If the owners aren't even
in Town-- I just don't want it to be punitive to any businesses in Town. If they're out-of-Town owners,
keep the fee.We're doing the work. I think we should keep the fee.Thank you.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Bagdasarian.
Council Member Bagdasarian:Just a couple more questions. I do like the concept. How will the Town
enforce non-compliance?
Michael Watkins: Typically, what we do is a 30 to 60-day outreach, then it's followed, again, with a
courtesy effort, courtesy letters and on-site visits to the property if there's a resident property owner, if
not, then we'll work through the property management. It's a 30/60/90 day process in which we're
educating, doing the courtesy outreach, and then finally getting to enforcement.
Council Member Bagdasarian: Okay. I know this was in there somewhere, but what is the timeframe
to get into compliance that we're given the heads up on this new ordinance?
Michael Watkins:Well,the ordinance becomes effective as soon as the ordinance is signed.Generally
speaking, once we get past the educational and outreach sections, it's reasonable efforts to bring the
item into compliance. I'll have a site inspector visit the property when we send a courtesy letter, those
timeframes are usually 10 business day timeframes. Again, it's not hard and fast because we're trying
to solicit compliance from the property owner. Then it gets formal,we send the notice of violation, that
is a 30-day time frame.
Then beyond that, again, based on a demonstration of due diligence to bring it into compliance. The
next step would be fines and then legal action court.
Page 15 I January 25, 2022
Council Member Bagdasarian: Thank you.
Mayor Burk: A lot of these boxes show up on people's property in shopping centers, and nobody has
approved them. I had a couple of different businesses one that drugstore,that's near me,that has done
everything they can to get rid of it. It just showed up one day, nobody gave it permission that they know
of. It sits there. They don't empty it. It's not the stores'--nobody comes to empty it. It sits there and it's
attracting rats, and it's driving the store crazy. They're so frustrated of trying to figure out what to do
with it. The big thing is--then that made me think about it. I went around to a couple of other stores that
I saw the boxes and nobody knew how they got there.
The stores don't own the property where the building is so they don't really have any say in it. They
don't know that the property owner has given permission. I asked one of the businesses if they would
check, and the property owner knew nothing about it. These things, they're just putting them there.
They're not maintaining them. Many of them are--just today, I was at up where Target is in that area,
and there's four boxes and they're all overflowing and all the stuff is all around. It's very unattractive. It's
very dangerous if you happen to be walking by there, who knows what's going to come out.
The clutter and the look of it is very detrimental. It makes it look like it's a shopping center that's in
decline. I don't see how this solves that issue of them just coming in dumping them, putting them in.
Who do we send the letter to?Where does the letter go to tell them to do something about it?
Michael Watkins: The comments regarding affecting individual businesses, just like all the zoning
enforcement actions, it's directed at the property owner. Even with a multi-tenant building, if there were
enforcement issues regarding inoperable vehicles or illegal signage, things of that nature, all of that is
directed at the property owner.What this ordinance is intended to do,which may have a chilling effect,
meaning restrict the boxes, is put the requirement on the property owner and not necessarily the Town
of Leesburg.All land use rights are with the property owner.This is directed at the responsibility of the
property owner to maintain his or her property.
Regarding the removal of the box, themselves, I don't know if the Town Attorney wants to chime in but
the property owner has all the rights and responsibilities to maintain and enforce private covenants,
easements,and just general maintenance of the property.The opportunity to remove those boxes aren't
limited by this ordinance, and just with any property ownership,we're trying to ensure that that property
owner is responsible for anything that they consent to you on the property.
Mayor Burk: If they don't consent to it, how did they get rid of it?
Michael Watkins:Well, they're going to receive a nice letter from the Town that advises them--
Mayor Burk: They, being who?
Michael Watkins: They,the property owner.
Mayor Burk: We're still back to the property owner?
Michael Watkins: Correct. Again, outside of asking for permission, the property owner is responsible
for maintaining their property.
Mayor Burk: Okay. Interesting.
Christopher Spera: If I can just weigh in briefly on that, Madam Mayor.This is,essentially,in the nature
of a trespass.
Mayor Burk: It is a trespass.
Christopher Spera: Correct. I think that many property owners are reluctant to do anything because
of the apparent charitable nature of the structure and its purported purpose. Now,they, as the owner of
the real property, have a problem with the Town because this thing's there, in a manner, inconsistent
with the Town Code. That may make them more willing to take care of the trespass. This is no different
Page 16 I January 25, 2022
than if somebody came in, dropped an old washer and dryer because they didn't want to take it to the
dump.They stuck that in the exact same location as some of those boxes that Mike had up there earlier.
A property owner, commercial or residential would look at that and say, "Well, I'm going to have that
hauled away. That's junk. I don't need it there." Now, I understand this is not junk and it has this
charitable purpose but it is trespassing. Their property rights allow them to remove it, and this is,
basically, our way as a regulator to move them along and give them a little bit of cover to say, "Well,
wait a minute. I'm moving this alleged charitable organization because you've got me in trouble with the
town. If you want to put it here,there's a way to do it.Ask for my consent, get the permit from the Town."
Mayor Burk: Does this restrict the number because sometimes, you got a yellow box by a blue box by
an orange box, by a pink block box. Does it restrict that at all? Because they're all different charities
supposedly?
Michael Watkins: The normal distribution is at least two boxes. Sometimes, it's singular, sometimes,
in the pictures I've shown you, it's a lot more. The ordinance restricts you to two containers.
Mayor Burk: A couple of years ago, the director for the Blue Ridge Hospice came to us and actually
asked us to ban these boxes because it impedes their ability to collect things, because people will, for
convenience, they'll just drop them in the box. It doesn't stay anywhere local. That goes away. I
remember him very heartfelt asking us to please deal with this because it was really impacting the
second hand,the consignment stores and that sort of thing.This isn't a new thing, but it most certainly,
to me, it has escalated because of these-- particularly, these yellow boxes have just shown up
everywhere all of a sudden.As I said, as I talked to different businesses there, nobody knew how they
got there,why they got there,what to do with them, and they didn't like them.
Council Member Steinberg: Madam Mayor, point of information. I just want to be clear.When we say,
"Property owner," are we talking about the property where the box is placed, or are you talking about
the property owners,the individual organization that owns the box?
Michael Watkins: The landowner, not the container or box owner, the landowner on which the
container sits on.
Council Member Steinberg: Okay.
Mayor Burk:All right. Any other questions at this point?Yes, Mr. Steinberg?
Council Member Steinberg:Well,the question, as opposed to, may I comment,actually, at this point?
Mayor Burk: I suppose so.
Council Member Steinberg: When this whole thing started, and I have to confess, I may have been
one of the prime movers when one of these boxes wound up being plopped right on the corner of the
Market and Catoctin Circle there.We have any number of organizations in our community that do this
kind of work. On an ongoing basis and oftentimes,in an emergency basis when situations occur around
the world and generous people want to send materials to help alleviate a situation like that.
I thought I was all for this, but now,this does not seem in any way to solve the problem for the property
owner when these boxes just show up and they still don't really have a recourse. The fact that the
property owner is responsible for the maintenance and making sure the box is emptied on a timely
fashion. This seems to be an administrative nightmare. Frankly, I think we'd be in a better position if we
banned them altogether. If a box shows up, it would be less expensive if the property owner paid us
$50 to remove it and be done with it as opposed to going through all the heartache that we're going
through now. I'm having, suddenly, serious reservations. Thanks.
Mayor Burk: Okay. Anybody else, Ms. Nacy?
Council Member Nacy: I think I agree.
Page 17 I January 25, 2022
[laughter]
Council Member Nacy: I'm hesitating because I'm just wondering, do we ban them, but do we still
have something in place like this that says how we deal with it to get rid of it, I guess, is the struggle. Is
there value still in all the work you did on this. [laughs] Without us just tossing it out. [laughs] I'm just
trying to save some of your man-hours here.
Michael Watkins: Well, hypothetically, if Council were to pass an ordinance that bans the structure, I
think it's probably going to cost the Town more than $50 a pop to remove the container. There's a cost
associated with that. I personally think that having the written consent to the property owner and the
issues that go in with discussing maintenance and the associated responsibilities may discourage the
boxes from being permitted on the property. My opinion. To answer the question, I think, again, if
Council were to pass an ordinance that outright prohibited the structures,again,we would use the Town
Code to enforce property maintenance which would be the illegal container on the property.
Council Member Nacy: Okay.We would then lean on the property owner to remove it and if they don't
do it in the time that our ordinance says it, we would take care of it and bill them sort of thing. Is that
how it would work if we ban them altogether?
Michael Watkins: Yes.
Council Member Nacy: Okay. Thank you.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Bagdasarian.
Council Member Bagdasarian: Really, the same point. It's not legal for someone to take a box and
just drop it off at a property and just drive away. By banning them, how will that stop that from
happening?That's the question. It's not legal currently.
Mayor Burk: Does it give us any more legal leeway if we ban it and they show up?
Christopher Spera: Yes, it gives us the ability to directly enforce which we don't currently have. It
doesn't change anything that I said before about what the private property owners'rights are, but now,
in addition to being a trespass of a private property right, it would be a violation of the Town Code and
would allow us to take enforcement action.
Mayor Burk: What if a property owner wanted one?
Christopher Spera:Well, exactly, I think that's the scenario that Mr.Watkins is trying to preserve, that
if one is tastefully done and properly maintained, it may actually serve a valuable function in the
community and it becomes a partnership between that property owner and the well-intended and
legitimate collector of these things. We allow that decision and that relationship to happen privately.
Once they make that decision, then they come and they get the permit. If they ever deviate from that
agreement,then we have the ability to enforce.
It gives the property owner the choice, "Do you want to do this? Are you partnering with a worthwhile
organization that you trust and that you believe has the resources to live up to their commitments and
responsibilities with respect to the collection stage?" They make that decision, and they understand if
they make a bad decision, or their partner doesn't live up to the deal, then they've got problems with
the Town. I think that's the situation that Mr.Watkins is trying to set up for you.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Cummings. [chuckles]
Council Member Cummings: Just one, I lean towards, I think,with the rest of Council,with looking at
doing away with them.Would it be possible, because I think, one of the issues that initially brought this
up beyond where they're placed is the number of them placed at the location, and typically, what you
see in the pictures 2,3,4, sometimes, more. Instead of an outright ban, could we get to cleaning this up
by only allowing so many permits to be given in the Town of Leesburg for accessory structures like this?
Page 18 1 January 25,2022
Christopher Spera: You have that limit built-in by the limit per property that Mike has suggested.
[silence] You could do it. I feel like it ends up becoming-- it has the potential to be an administrative
nightmare. What if you have a-- You pick a number, 50, and number 51 comes in, and you've got a
willing property owner and a legitimate charity. They want to do it. We've hit this number, and we just
set the number artificially. Maybe you build a process that you go up to this number administratively,
and then you go above it, it has to come some approval.To me, I think, it's going to self-regulate limiting
the number per site and the fact that most of, I think, many property owners aren't going to want it.
Ultimately, I think you could do it, I just think the juice might not be worth the squeeze.
Mayor Burk: Ms. Fox?
Council Member Fox: What about an increase in the fee?Would that help the situation? People who
really want it will do it. I am still getting mixed up between property owner of the box and property owner
of the land and who's supposed to be in compliance.An increase in fee, if somebody really wants to do
it, they're going to pursue it. If they don't want to do it, they're not going to pay that fee. Just that.
Mayor Burk:What if we took this and said,"We will review it in a year"and see if it's made a difference?
How about if we do that?
Council Member Bagdasarian: I think that's good. Just to piggyback off of Councilwoman Fox's
comments, I do think that if it's a local charity, a local organization, so if Blue Ridge Hospice has a box,
I think they should have no fee. If it's outside the area, if it's a national organization outside, it should
be substantial, like$250. Substantially more than $50.
Mayor Burk: Is that doable?
Michael Watkins: How do you define local serving?What criteria am Ito apply?
Council Member Bagdasarian: Based in Leesburg, based in Loudoun County.
Mayor Burk: I don't think any of them are. You'd be getting none of them. [laughs]
Christopher Spera: If you want to define the service area more than [unintelligible].
Mayor Burk: Yes, Ms. Fox.
Council Member Fox: Could we also include some collection mechanism in the permit wording?We
would want it defined by whoever is filling out a permit, commit to it so that they have it in the back of
their head if they have to do it this time and this time. Not just regular basis.
Michael Watkins: Oh, okay. We can certainly amend the ordinance to say that the permit will include
a schedule of collections.
Council Member Fox: Okay. Perfect.
Council Member Steinberg: Of no less.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Steinberg [crosstalk]--
Council Member Steinberg: Finally, I don't know.
Mayor Burk: What?
Council Member Steinberg: I said finally, but I don't know if this is finally. I am equally concerned that
if a box owner simply takes it upon themselves to drop it on somebody's property that it becomes the
property owner's responsibility, and they have no recourse. I recognize that this then becomes an
expense to the Town. If somebody has [unintelligible 01:22:16] just come in and drop a box on
somebody's property, I think we should be equally strong in saying, "We're going to pick your box up. If
Page 19 I January 25,2022
you want it back, then this is what it will cost you to get it." I think that should be part of the ordinance.
Can we do that?
Christopher Spera: You certainly may. At the risk of all of you rolling your eyes as I tell yet another
Alexandria story, I'm going to tell you another Alexandria story.
Mayor Burk: Okay, everybody, roll your eyes.
[laughter]
Christopher Spera: The version of this that was the bane of Alexandria in the early 2000s were
newspaper boxes. There were many in these publications. Some were promoting real estate sales.All
these little newspapers, mostly advertisements,frankly.The newspaper boxes,we had a process,very
similar to what Mr. Watkins is proposing here. There were certain places where they were allowed.
There was a permitting process. Then once every couple of months, the city had a flatbed truck, and
the general services guys would drive around. If a newspaper box wasn't where it was supposed to be
and didn't have a permit, it went on the flatbed.
Then the publisher of the newspaper was listed in the publication. Was contacted and they said, "30
days to come get your box or we're going to destroy it. Have a nice day."That happened every couple
of months. That's what happened. What it sounds like Mr. Steinberg is proposing is something similar
to that. It's really a question for the Town Manager whether he wants to incur that expense. We could
certainly offer the service much as the city did in picking up these trespassing boxes. We could say,
'We'll pick up. If you try and reach out to the organization and they won't remove it, and they put it there
without your consent,we, the Town will come get it."
We could do just what Alexandria used to do. You reach out to that organization, "You got 30 days to
come get your box.If you don't come get it,we're going to throw it away."We could do that.The question
is--I'm asking Mr. Dentler, do we want to incur that expense?That's not free.There's a cost associated
with that.
Mayor Burk: If you pick it up, shouldn't there be a fee to pick it up?
Christopher Spera:Who are we going to assess the fee to?
Mayor Burk: On the people that own the box.
Christopher Spera: How are we going to get them?
Mayor Burk: How are you going to get them?
Christopher Spera: Right.
Mayor Burk: You said you write letters to'em and say, "Come get your box."
Christopher Spera: Okay. I understand we can assess the fee but if it is some organization based in-
-wherever, Maryland, and we get a judgment against them or[crosstalk]$250 fine, or we going to go
domesticate that judgment in Maryland to collect our$250?
Council Member Steinberg: Point of information, Madam Mayor.Well, I would [crosstalk]--
Mayor Burk: Are you done, did you?--
Christopher Spera: I would just say it just seems like a pretty cumbersome process.
Council Member Steinberg: I appreciate the example, but I would offer that these boxes are far more
substantial than your average publication box.There's a lot of heavy metal for those musicians in these
things. If they don't want to come get it, I suspect there's a recycling value, and somebody else would
Page 20 I January 25, 2022
probably come and take it off of our hands at no cost to us. That's another option. If they haven't come
to retrieve it or pay for it in 30 days then it'd be interesting to see many of their boxes they'd be willing
to lose before their bad behavior ceased.
Christopher Spera: Well, I don't know Mr. Steinberg, if they're recyclable or not or if they have any
value independent of their function as a donation center. I am hesitant to think that this would be cost-
neutral, and that's why I'm saying, we certainly have the ability to do this.We are legally--if somebody
is in violation of the Town Code,we,the Town, could remove these things. It's just a question of, is that
an expenditure of funds and resources that we want to undertake?
Mayor Burk:Well,we can still go back to following the recommendation with a couple of amendments
about the schedule and something else--that there was one other amendment.
Council Member Bagdasarian:The fees. I think Mr. Spera had a good definition of what is considered
a local organization--It's serving the Leesburg community. If it's serving this community locally then that
would be considered local and be exempt from the fees.
Christopher Spera: If the service area was primarily Leesburg and Loudoun County, it would be
exempt from fees. If it was not willing to commit to that, didn't meet that standard, then the fees of up--
250 was your suggested fee for that?There's no legal--
Mayor Burk: Then after--Yes?
Council Member Cummings:One thing I just looked up.One of the yellow boxes are Planet Aid boxes.
I don't want to make a statement about any charity, but according to Charity Watch, they have very,
very poor numbers as far as money that actually goes back and how good they are of a charity. The
reason I bring that up is because when we talk about a local presence with what Mr. Bagdasarian was
talking about, they actually have an office in Loudoun County, so technically--
Christopher Spera: That's why I suggested to Mr. Bagdasarian, that we change it from where they're
based to where their service area is and that their service area has to primarily be locally focused.
Mayor Burk: Does it state that they serve Loudoun County?
Council Member Cummings: I could do some more looking but I would imagine they will. Personally,
I'll just end, I'll shut up, but I like the Mayor's idea of looking at doing this for a year or pick a time and
then see where we are, see if we've had any resolution to the concerns we had to bring this up, and if
not,we'll come back to it. We can all bring our notes or just ban them.
Michael Watkins: I have three amendments to the draft ordinance.The first is to include a new section
regarding a reevaluation from the year of an enactment. The second is to include a schedule of
collection with the permit. Then lastly, the fee is $250 unless the box proprietor can demonstrate that
they have a service area that includes primarily Leesburg and Loudoun County.
Mayor Burk: I got issues with that last one. [laughs] I'm afraid--
Council Member Fox: I feel like if it's the service area of Leesburg, I feel okay with that. I'm not sure
about Loudoun County.
Mayor Burk: I don't know how they define that, I'm afraid that they would say, "Well, we give some
clothes to poor people on [crosstalk]."
Council Member Steinberg:Well,again,that seems like an administrative nightmare, honestly. I think
we should come up with a standard fee and see how it works. I think that'd be the easiest thing to do,
but I still think we should empower the Town to remove the boxes after 30 days. I recognize we will
incur an expense, and we'll see how that goes after a year, and we realize how many of these things
we actually had to pick up. I think it's a responsible thing for the Town to do for our businesses.
Page 21 I January 25, 2022
Mayor Burk: I'd rather see how it goes because we may find that they do it and they take care of it and
it's not an issue. Myself, but anyway. Yes, Mr. Bagdasarian.
Council Member Bagdasarian: Just a question on that note, Mr. Steinberg.
Mayor Burk: I'm not following any rules.
Council Member Bagdasarian: How would a box being dropped off on a commercial property be any
different than me dropping a refrigerator off at Mr. Cumming's house tomorrow morning? I'm not going
to plan to do anything, but how is that any different?
Mayor Burk: If it shows up you know.
Christopher Spera:The only difference is that a property owner may not want to be perceived as doing
something adverse to the charity that's on the outside of the box but from a legal perspective, it is
identical. It's a trespassing piece of property. If it was a car, if it was a refrigerator, was an old washer
and dryer, are we going to go pick that up?We're probably not.
[laughter]
Mayor Burk: Do we have a motion?Would anybody like to--Oh, is anybody in the public like to speak
to this issue? I would say no. Thank you, for keeping me on-- I will now close the public hearing. I will
ask if there is a motion that anybody wants to make at this point. If somebody want to move the motion.
I move that the zoning text amendment application TLOA-2021-003 Donation Box be approved subject
to the following changes.
We agreed to the three changes with the exception of the third one,we had a little issue with identifying
their local service area.We're going to do away with that. Just do a standard fee. Okay. Is that clear?
With those three changes on the basis of the zoning text amendment:further the objectives of the Town
Plan and serve the public necessity, convenience, general welfare, and good zoning practices.
Michael Watkins: One clarification$50 or$250?
Mayor Burk: $250. Is there a second?
Council Member Nacy: Second.
Mayor Burk: Seconded by Ms. Nacy.Any additional discussion?All in favor, indicate by saying aye.
Members:Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed?That passes unanimously.
Christopher Spera: 6-0-1, Madam.
Mayor Burk: Okay, but put it on your calendar, a year from now,we want to hear back.
Christopher Spera: That was 6-0-1, not unanimous.
Mayor Burk: I'm sorry?
Christopher Spera: 6-0-1, not unanimous.
Mayor Burk: I didn't hear you.
Christopher Spera: The vote.
Mayor Burk: Oh,thank you. I was thinking, "What?" [chuckles]. Sorry.
Page 22 I January 25, 2022
Christopher Spera: Hopefully, this last gem will not generate nearly as many comments or questions.
Mayor Burk: Okay, but I got to do my announcement.
Christopher Spera: Yep.
Mayor Burk: Public hearing number three, amending the Town Code section, 2-195(b) regarding
attendance by members of Town Boards and Commissions. I call to order this January 25th, 2022.
Public Hearing of the Leesburg Town Council, unless there's an objection, I will dispense with the
reading of the advertisement. If you wish to speak,we ask that you sign up on the sheet in the hallway
outside the chambers. If you did not get the opportunity to sign up, I will give you the opportunity.
In the interest of fairness,we ask that you observe the two-minute time limit and in front of you,the light
will turn after one minute. At that time, we'd appreciate your summing up and yielding the floor. Under
the rules adopted by the Council, this time limit applies to all citizens. However, rather than have
numerous citizens present remarks on behalf of the group, the Council will allow a spokesperson for
the group a few extra minutes.
In that instance, we would ask speakers when they sign up to indicate their status as a spokesperson
and the group they represent. Our procedure for the public hearing is as follows: There will be a--first,
a brief presentation by staff. Second, the members of the public that have signed up to speak will be
called and given five minutes to make their comments. The public hearing item on the agenda is
amending the Town Code section 2-195(b) regarding attendance by members of towns and boards.
Mr. Spera?
Christopher Spera: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of Council. This is the Town Code change
to implement the instruction that you gave staff regarding changing the rules for attendance by members
of Boards and Commissions. You gave us this instruction back in, I believe, it was November.
Essentially, the changes with this, members of boards, commissions may not be absent from three
consecutive meetings.
Members of boards commissions may not miss more than three meetings during the course of any
calendar year in the event that the standards are violated,then we don't need to come back to Council,
it is a self-executing disqualification. In the event that someone is disqualified and a vacancy has to be
filled,we follow your already established process as forth in the Town Code for filling those vacancies.
Then we clarify that it does not apply to the Planning Commission,the Board of Zoning Appeals because
they have their own separate statutory criteria. These are all things, I believe, we talked about when
this was brought up. There's the added language, there's the removed language to the existing Town
Code Section,which is Section 2-195, sub B. That's all I have for you on that.
Mayor Burk:All right. Anybody having any questions on this, Ms. Nacy?
Council Member Nacy: I do, I promise I won't make it a thing [laughs]. Oh, I just want to clarify. The
code says four meetings, but you mentioned three and three.
Mayor Burk: Three and three, right.
Council Member Nacy: I just want to make sure.
Christopher Spera: I said more than three,which is four.
Council Member Nacy: Okay. Then I don't remember, did we discuss-- if somebody has a medical
thing, will that be taking into consideration so they're not just knocked off? Or are we not just going
there,we're just--
Mayor Burk: We really didn't talk about it, but if you think about the fact that if you're not well enough
to be there for those three to four or five meetings,then maybe it's better that you concentrate on getting
better and then come back.
Page 23 I January 25, 2022
Council Member Nacy: Okay. It doesn't rule them out from never coming back.
Christopher Spera: There's still the ability under the current law to participate twice, electronically.
There may be further ability to participate electronically, depending on what the General Assembly
does. Under the current law,a person can participate twice,electronically,due to health reasons.That's
in the current state of the law. If somebody were in poor enough health, they didn't want to come in
person but could participate electronically,that would keep them out of potentially these numbers.
Council Member Nacy: Okay.Yes, and I shouldn't think this doesn't mean they can never come back
[laughs].
Mayor Burk: Any other questions on this? Gosh, see what a good job you did?
Christopher Spera: I think you're just tired from the last one.
Mayor Burk: Is there a motion that anybody would like to make on this? Oh, public hearing. I keep
forgetting there's the public. Is there anybody in the public that would like to speak? Nobody here? I will
close the public hearing. Is there anybody that would like to make a motion on this? Mr. Steinberg? Is
there a motion?
Council Member Steinberg: I did not put it on the-- It's in the packet, I apologize.Well.
[laughter]
Council Member Steinberg: That's very good. Okay, hold on a second. I can get there.
Mayor Burk: Okay, this is Council Member Steinberg. Who did the Springwater? Who made that
motion? Did you, Council Member, Fox, did that one?
Council Member Steinberg: Okay, I can get through it. Hold on a second. I thought I could. I need to
read the whole [unintelligible] motion.
Christopher Spera:All it says is I move to approve the proposed ordinance. That's all[crosstalk]--
Council Member Steinberg: Okay. I move to approve the proposed ordinance [unintelligible].
Mayor Burk: Okay. Seconded by Ms. Nacy.All in favor.
Members:Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed? Okay.
Council Member Steinberg:We see the staff rolling their eyes at us now[laughs].
Mayor Burk: No, there was no Alexandria story.
[laughter]
Christopher Spera: Only one. I only gave you one.
Mayor Burk:All right. Council disclosures and comments. Mr. Cummings?
Council Member Cummings: No comments. Just one disclosure. I had a virtual meeting with the
members of the Liberty Group Hospitality.They're bringing a hotel over near the Village of Leesburg.
Mayor Burk:All right. Ms. Nacy, I'm moving around.
Page 24 I January 25,2022
Council Member Nacy: I don't have any comments either. I also have the same disclosure. That, on
the 20th, I did a team's meeting with the Liberty Hospitality Partners.
Mayor Burk:All right, Ms. Fox?
Council Member Fox: No disclosures, but I would like to ask that we have some sort of work session.
There was a petitioner who was worried about snow in rights-of-way.
Mayor Burk: [unintelligible].
Council Member Fox: Yes. I think we need to work session to discuss.
Mayor Burk: I know, Mr. Town Manager, that you did have a discussion today with Parks and Recs
and the ADA representative. Would it be worthwhile for us to hear what they have, what plan they've
come up with?
Kaj Dentler: Sure. I was going to make a few comments at the end.Our ADA coordinator is Kate Trask.
I had Kate communicate directly with Ms. Chrisner, today. She followed up. On a lot of ADA things, it's
not always real clear. It does require a level of counsel, not only did she talk with Chris, the Town
Attorney, but the ADA resource center. Then she spoke with Ms. Chrisner. They had a very good
positive productive conversation, and a game plan was established of short-term and long-term. Basic,
trying to understand what the needs were specifically for her family, and then try to address those.
What she said tonight is clear. We all see those things and try to address those. Some of these are
private properties, whether they're the businesses that need to take action in the whole process of
finding, and some is the W&OD trail,which is managed by NOVA Parks and does not consider the trail
sidewalk, it is recreation use. There's a lot of complexities involved, but we do have a game plan to
attack what we can and what we can get done on a short-term basis. Ms. Chrisner was on board with
that.
Then we have some long-term discussions of how do we make things better. Have conversations, Ms.
Chrisner is totally on board with being a partner with us in helping us in that regard. The one thing that
my advice to you is, and you will see in the budget that I propose, is that I'm asking for you to fund the
snow budget for removing the snow, that we only fund half. If we go into a different program of
pedestrian removal, which, I think, has a lot of merit, there is going to be a cost that you're going to
have to be willing to pay because we do not have the resources,equipment, or manpower.They'll have
to be contracted or additional staff.
I think there are a lot of valid conversations to be held and had so you understand the complexities of
the law, the limitations of what we have to do, what we cannot do. With storms like we had, there are
reasonable periods of time of when you can get things removed. It's not like you're on a clock. It's not
quite as by black and white is that. We have a very good plan with Ms. Chrisner.
Mayor Burk: Ms. Fox would like to have a work session on it. Can you explain all that in detail?
Kaj Dentler: Absolutely, if you want to have it I was just going to share with you that we had a good
conversation with her, and I think we are working to develop. If Council wants to have a discussion on
how to improve the pedestrian access, keep in mind, there's 12 square miles, a lot of sidewalks, a lot
of crosswalks, curb cuts, et cetera. This is a significant initiative that we'd be taking on. I'm not saying
it's a bad thing. It has a lot of positive merits, but be careful what you might be thinking. It's not easy
[crosstalk]--
Council Member Steinberg: Does it become part of our greater conversation in the budget then?
Kaj Dentler: Yes. [crosstalk] We're going to have a conversation. You're going to see proposal for
removal.
Mayor Burk: Do you still want to have-- No.All right.
Page 25 I January 25, 2022
Kaj Dentler:What do you feel we're okay with?
Council Member Fox: Not unless the budget discussion segues into some--we have to have a broader
discussion, I suppose.
Kaj Dentler: Yes. I think it's going to fall naturally based on the proposed budget of asking you to fund
the full road removal pedestrian.We have made a lot of improvements on some of our core areas, such
as King Street, Catoctin, Market,et cetera.That has risen our budget, but there's a lot more.And Plaza
Street,there's a lot that could be done. In her particular case, it's the route that her family needs to take
to get from home to business,that could happen anywhere in Town.What I was trying to convey to with
Kate's role as ADA coordinator,that's almost like a special case, unless we're going to blanket remove
everything that doesn't get done. You'll never be able to afford that at a tax rate that you're willing to
pay for.
It's being more responsive to specific ADA request type of thing and this accomplish what we can
accomplish. Can we be better? Absolutely. Should we be better?Yes. It's going to take some time to
figure it out, so we're getting there. I'm sorry for the long answer because you could already see, it's a
lot involved. Kate had a great conversation with Ms. Chrisner as it what was reported back to me. We
knew she was going to come tonight. We anticipated she would come. She is a partner with Kate on
trying to make some very proactive long-term.We have our crews that will be on-site tomorrow morning
to make some improvements that we can make, type of thing.
Mayor Burk: All right. Is that it, Mr. Fox? Mr. Steinberg.
Kaj Dentler:Won't ask again.
[laughter]
Council Member Steinberg: We didn't roll our eyes. No comments. I had a meeting with the Liberty
Hospitality Group.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Bagdasarian?
Council Member Bagdasarian:Yes. I love the fact that--the attitude of how do we make things better.
Constantly looking at how we can improve things.A couple, I also met with the Liberty Group regarding
the hotel project. I also had a meeting with Graydon Manor and David Gregory and Jennifer Smith from
INMED, last week as well.
Mayor Burk: All right, Mr. Cummings, did I ask you? Okay. January 13th, I had a meeting with Rabbi
Tow from the Sha'are Shalom synagogue. We spoke about the connection to the Town and future
partnerships. On the 15th, I joined the team at Virginia,the Village of Leesburg,to announce the winner
of the ice sculpture contest. It's always amazing the work that these people do with a block of ice. It's
just amazing. Sometimes, it's kind of warm, that was not the case. It was a very nice, very, very cold
night, so the sculptures looked even better.
January 17th, I want to thank Tammy Carter and the Martin Luther King Jr. Planning Committee that
planned this March and the virtual presentation. It's a lot of hard work. It's made more difficult by COVID,
but it was a wonderful event. I believe it was the 31st time they have done it. January 18th, I joined
Council Member Steinberg and Cummings, and Vice Mayor Martinez, presenting that proclamation to
Tuscarora Restaurant for 36 years of service to the community. Mr. and Mrs. Malone were very pleased
to be recognized and were grateful to be in Leesburg, and very happy that this is where they decided
to start their first business.
On January 19th, I met with Mr. Born about the rezoning at the Village of Leesburg. I also met with the
Liberty Group on the hotel. I also met with Rabbi Cohen from another synagogue that's looking for a
new location for a synagogue here in Leesburg. Town Manager, did you have anything you wanted to
add?
Page 26 I January 25, 2022
Kaj Dentler: The only other thing I wanted to mention was, I sent you an email earlier today. Council
Member Nacy brought up last night some concerns of Country Club residents. You saw the email. We
got a good response back.We will reach out to them and make sure we understand what they're asking.
We'll go into the budget process.We'll have some conversations.
I think, most likely, it'll end up in some type of analysis or study period for a year to figure out what we
should do, can do, options, price tags, and then probably be at a budget situation a year from now, is
my guess.We'll have the conversations. I don't know if we can make everything happen in time for this
budget, but we'll do our best.We'll make sure that it's on your budget list for doing the discussions this
year so that you are updated at minimum [crosstalk]--
Mayor Burk: A lot of them were the cable boxes if we could get--
Kaj Dentler: Sorry?
Mayor Burk:A lot of them were the cable boxes
Kaj Dentler:A lot of them were cable, but street lights,-
Mayor Burk: Other things too.
Kaj Dentler: -things. It's an aging neighborhood. It has precedents that could be created, and we have
to be aware of that. We will make sure that we address it so you have the conversation during budget
and give us direction.
Mayor Burk:All right.
Kaj Dentler: That's all.
Mayor Burk: Do I have a motion to adjourn?
Council Member Steinberg: So moved.
Mayor Burk: Second?
Members: Second.
Mayor Burk: All in favor?
Members:Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed?All right.
Page 27 I January 25,2022