HomeMy Public PortalAbout10-12-2004PLANNING COMMISSION MINIUTES — OCTOBER 12, 2004
PRESENT: ELIZABETH WEIR, RON JOHNSON, LENNYLEUER, BILL LOE, DICK
PICARD, MARY VERBICK AND MARILYN FORTON. ALSO PRESENT
INTERIM PLANNER SARAH SCHIELD, CITY ADMINISTRATOR CHAD
ADAMS, HENNEPIN COUNTY ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES DAVID
THILL AND PLANNING AND ZONING ASSISTANT SANDIE LARSON
ABSENT: NONE
1. CALL TO ORDER
Chairperson Elizabeth Weir called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. Ms. Weir reminded
everyone that the Planning Commission was a recommending body and that the City Council
made the final decisions.
2. PUBLIC FORUM
There were no comments.
3. ROBERT BRADLEY — 3000 HAMEL ROAD — SUBDIVISION OF 200+ ACRES
INTO 9 LOTS — PUBLIC HEARING
Sarah Schield went over the staff report. She stated the variance would be for the length of the
cul-de-sac because the ordinance requires a length no longer than 750'. She put up an overhead
of the preliminary plat and went over the natural characteristics of the site. Sarah stated that staff
feels the planning commission should review the plan and comment. She stated that the criteria
for a subdivision variance is not as strict as the zoning variance criteria.
S. Schield went over each of the 4 criteria.
Ron Musich, 2715 Pioneer Trail, talked about when he purchased his property. He said he
agreed to buy all 30 acres if no road was ever put through.
S. Schield went over her recommendations.
David Thill, Hennepin County Environment Services, pointed out where the road could possibly
be moved to preserve more of the natural areas. He felt it was basically a good plan with a few
minor changes.
Robert Bradley said he did not have anything to add concerning the variance.
The public hearing was opened.
David Weigman, representing Jeff and Kelly Gage of 2660 Hamel Road, said generally the plan
looks great, but they do have a concern with the access to Lots 6 and 7. He said when the city
Planning Commission Minutes
October 12, 2004
1
approved the 3 lot Dahl subdivision there was no mention of an easement. He said the 3 lots
share the costs not knowing there was another party involved. He said security and privacy is a
big concern and also speed and safety of the current occupants, kids and horses. His two
questions were whether construction would be allowed on the road and if there could be
additional subdivision of the lots, especially Lots 6 and 7.
Ron Johnson said this is a very nice piece of property, beautiful land. He wondered if there was
a tree preservation plan.
R. Bradley said he does not know what the normal practice is, but they could include the
preservation of trees in the restrictive covenants. He said he has planted 1OO's of trees that will
mitigate some of what will come down.
R. Johnson asked if the horse trails would be kept.
R. Bradley said they have always been there and are part of the history of the area. He said they
would be kept open.
Marilyn Fortin asked if the lots were more dividable.
R. Bradley said it is not possible.
Elizabeth Weir said as long as it stays in the Rural Residential zoning. it would not be dividable
further.
D. Weigman said it should be part of the restrictive covenants that the lots are not divided
further.
Mary Verbick said if at some point sewer and water came along and there was a zoning change it
might be possible.
R. Johnson asked Mr. Bradley if he went along with staff s 18 recommendations.
R. Bradley said they are fine, except the current road is closer.
Lenny Leuer — staffs #8 — where is the 100' for a wetland buffer coming from. He said 50' is
the closest we require in our Industrial/Commercial zoning, why would it be larger in residential.
E. Weir said we cannot compare it with another zoning district. She said this is an ecological
significant area and different standards apply.
L.. Leuer said he does not agree. He said if the applicant agrees to 50' we should be happy.
R. Bradley said if the city works with us in areas where it wouldn't work - - -.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 12, 2004
2
Mark Gronberg said the biggest concern is where the road is. He said we would have to look at
the septic sites on Lots 8 and 9.
L. Leuer said the logic escapes him why move it where David Thill suggests.
D. Thill said the resource to the west of the open water is more critical and it would fragment the
wooded areas. The area is also steeper.
L. Leuer said looking at the contiguous soils, moving the road might delete 1 lot.
D. Thill said it does not look like it would affect it.
L. Leuer asked about the easement going north and the lots to the north are already developed.
S. Schield said the recommendation came from engineering and public works and the planning
staff. She said when the opportunity comes along for another future connection is when an
easement is taken. She said she did not know the lots to the north were developed.
L. Leuer talked about the 116 issue from years ago. He said this could become a N-S road and
the residents did not want that.
M. Gronberg said he and Doug Hoskins had met with Josh, Jim Dillman and Tom Kellogg. He
said they had a discussion about the road. He said they were not in favor of a thru road.
Lenny Leuer and Mary Verbick agreed.
L. Leuer asked if there would be an association.
R. Bradley said yes, especially if it was going to be a private road.
L. Leuer asked if it would be gated.
R. Bradley said no, they hadn't thought of it.
L. Leuer asked about covenants.
R. Bradley said yes, there would be architectural, fencing, building materials, minimum square
footage of houses, etc.
L. Leuer asked about the land used by the Hunt Club. He said the comprehensive plan
encourages private trails that are not publicly owned. What could we do to encourage keeping
the horse trails.
R. Bradley said he is for it. He said he does not know what he could do other than encourage it.
L. Leuer said it is not a public trail but the group does use them.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 12, 2004
3
R. Bradley said we could talk about the trails in the covenants that encourages the continued use
of the trail system.
L. Leuer wanted to know what the concern was on the easement that Bradley has for Lots 6 and
7.
D. Weigman said they want to work with Bradley. He said it is usually made clear on who
maintains, uses it, etc.
L. Leuer said he figured there would be a private road agreement. Lenny also said he thought the
covenants should not state that the lots cannot be further subdivided.
D. Weigman said he is not looking for a fight. We do have that in our titles.
L. Leuer said we don't require that something like that is in the covenants; we are just looking to
get a private road agreement.
R. Bradley said the easement has been there for some years and he also said the lots are for sale.
Dick Picard said he agrees with Ron that this is a beautiful piece of property. He wondered if
there was any agriculture use on it now.
R. Bradley said yes, about 100 acres.
D. Picard asked if these home sites would be called hobby farms.
R. Bradley said he did not know. He said he does have horses, but no metal barns, etc.
D. Picard wanted to know what the Greenway Corridor was.
D. Thill said it is conceptual. He said it was done when the natural resource inventory was done
4 years ago which shows the significant areas in your city. He said the natural resources in your
city can be included when your comprehensive plan is updated in 2008.
D. Picard said the cul-de-sac talk confuses me.
R. Bradley said the talk of 2 cul-de-sacs was in error.
D. Picard read the definition of the Rim program.
R. Bradley said they recreated a wetland that had been drained in the 3O's and then was farmed.
He said he is willing to work to preserve wetlands if all can work with the areas where the 100'
is a problem.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 12, 2004
4
D. Picard said this area is a major conduit to Lake Independence so a concern to us is the septic
locations and the fact that there seems to be confusion with our soils map.
M. Gronberg said all the lots were tested by Steve Schirmers and there is some conflict with the
topo and soils map. He said all the septic sites have been located in areas of conventional soils.
D. Picard asked if the houses would be sprinkled.
R. Bradley said that was a staff suggestion to mitigate the long cul-de-sac. He said it is up to the
planning commission and if it is felt that it is necessary, it will be put in the covenants.
S. Schield said staff had talked about the sprinkling of the houses because it is an area of
concern.
Chad Adams said we cannot legally require it.
E. Weir asked Mr. Bradley is he would be willing to look at the curve in the road and maybe
move it.
R. Bradley said yes. He said it would be nice to move it if we do not cross the deep gorge.
M. Verbick said she recommends collaboration to place a road to have the least impact on the
natural features and the least impact on the plan so there is the least impact on both parties.
R. Bradley said he would like to tweak it some.
MOVED BY RON JOHNSON AND SECONDED BY MARILY FORTIN TO RECOMMEND
APPROVAL OF A VARIANCE TO ALLOW A 4,400 FOOT CUL DE SAC WITH THE
FOLLOWING FINDINGS:
1. The physical elements of the site limits the landowner's ability to locate the roadway in
any other fashion and also the cul-de-sac provides for less impact on the natural features
than a through road.
2. The conditions upon which the variation is based are unique to the parcel of land for
which the variance is sought. The topographical conditions are unique to this particular
parcel.
3. The proposed variation is related to the requirements of the regulations.
4. The granting of the variation would not be detrimental to the public welfare or injurious
to other land or improvements in the neighborhood as the lots are large in size and allow
for less dense development.
MOTION PASSED.
MOVED BY MARY VERBICK AND SECONDED BY LENNY LEUER TO RECOMMEND
APPROVAL OF THE PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR ROBERT BRADLEY AT 3000 HAMEL
ROAD FOR A 9 LOT SUBDIVISION WITH THE FOLLOWING RECOMMENDATIONS:
1. The applicant must provide a narrative describing the variance request
Planning Commission Minutes
October 12, 2004
5
2. The location of the shoreland boundary must be identified on the plans. (It appears the
NW and SE portions of the site may be in the shoreland overlay district)
3. The location of the permanent RIM easement must be identified on the plans.
4. the landowner shall comply with the Wetland conservation Act.
5. The applicant must provide a copy of the wetland delineation report for City review prior
to final plat application.
6. The plans must be revised to identify drainage and utility easements over the wetlands,
ponding areas and drainage ways.
7. The plans must be revised to provide a preferred buffer of 100' around the significant
wetland areas where possible and a 25' buffer around other wetlands where possible.
The applicant is to work with David Thill. No wetland impact or buffer impact is
approved. The plantings should be located to avoid impacts on the wetlands.
8. Best Management Practices (BMPs) for erosion control shall be employed.
9. Approval is subject to Pioneer -Sarah Creek Watershed District review of the drainage
plan and any conditions.
10. The applicant shall comply with all City requirements as noted in the comments from the
city engineer.
11. The plans must be revised to identify the cul-de-sac as a private drive with a public
easement.
12. The applicant must provide a copy of the road easement to identify the access for Lots 6
& 7 and also a private road agreement for Lots 6 and 7.
13. The application for final plat must be submitted to the City within 180 days of
preliminary plat approval or the preliminary plat shall be considered void, unless a
written request for time extension is submitted by the applicant and approved by the City
Council.
14. The application is subject to conditions set the by Park Commission for park dedication
and trail easements.
15. Building plans must include grading, drainage and erosion control plans with each
building plan submitted.
16. The building inspector must approve the soil percolation tests and septic system designs
prior to issuance of building permits. Septic sites must be staked prior to beginning any
construction on site.
17. The building inspector must inspect the existing septic system to ensure compliance with
Rule 7080 and city standards.
18. The Planning Commission wanted to reiterate that a N-S road was not needed.
There was discussion of #7 and the RIM program.
MOTION PASSED.
4. MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 15, 2004
There were a number of spelling corrections throughout.
Page 6, top line, add: - - - to know why - - -
Planning Commission Minutes
October 12, 2004
6
MOVED BY MARY VERBICK AND SECONDED BY BILL LOE TO ACCEPT THE
MINUTES AS CORRECTED.
MOTION PASSED.
5. PLANNER'S REPORT
Sarah Schield said that she has had a fun couple of weeks since Josh left. She said she has
received and will review applications from Dairy Queen on Highway 55, Farr Development for
Uptown Hamel, Ryan Company for Target Retail and Dave Moore for Creekview townhomes on
Hamel Road.
Chad Adams said that Bridgewater at Lake Medina, the Charles Cudd proposal is still before the
Met Council committee. The Met council had put some conditions on their approval that the city
council did not agree with such as the language that says the RR-UR zoning district must be
developed to 3 units per acre by 2008 — this should be changed to show intent by 2008. They
also had a requirement that the number of acres taken out to RR -Ur be replaced by another area
of the same size and put in RR-UR. He said now it seems like within the last week they have
issued a new policy, so we should see in the next couple of weeks what happens. Cudd's
comprehensive plan amendment goes before the full Met Council on October 27th, so then it
should go back to our council on November 3rd and then if it is approved could be on the
December planning commission for re -zoning and preliminary plat.
There was further discussion on PUD's and the density of development.
C. Adams updated the planning commission on a planner. He said he hopes to have a
recommendation to the city council so there could be a new planner by the next planning
commission meeting.
MOVED BY DICK PICARD AND SECONDED BY MARY VERBICK TO ADJOURN.
MOTION PASSED.
Meeting adjourned at 8:50 P.M.
Planning and Zoning Assistant Date
Planning Commission Minutes
October 12, 2004
7