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HomeMy Public PortalAbout2000-05-09 AttorneyClient Session CASE 99-27948CA11BAL HARBOUR VILLAGE ATTORNEY-CLIENT SESSION May 9, 2 000 655 -96th Street Bal Harbour, Florida 4:10 o'clock p.m . PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC . (305) 944 -9884 MAYOR ANDREW R. HIR SCHL ASSISTANT MAYOR DANIELS. TANTLEF F COUNCILMAN PE G E. GORSON COUNCILMAN SEYMOUR "SY" ROTH ALFRED J. TREPPEDA, VILLAGE MANAGER STEPHEN JAY HELFMAN, ESQ. Wei ss, Serota & Helfman, P.A. Richard J. Weiss S te phen Hel fman Elissa Wright, Deputy Village Clerk P ERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. 2 (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 11 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 2 5 THEREUPON, THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HAD: MAYOR HIRSCHL: Le t's call this public meeting to order and a roll call, please? MS. WRIGHT: Mayor Hirschl? MAYOR HIRSCHL: Here. MS . WRIGHT: Assistant Mayor Tantleff? ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: Here. MS. WRIGHT: Councilman Gorson? COUNCIL MAN GORSON: Here. MS. WRIGHT: Councilman Roth? COUNCILMAN ROTH: Here. MS. WRIGHT: Councilman Boggess is absent. MAYOR HIRSCHL: The ti me is now 4:10 p.m. We're about to have an attorney-client session in accordance with F lorida Statute 286.0 -- MR. RICHARD WEISS: If you notice in pencil there wh e r e it says 3 MAYOR HIRSCHL: Attorney's statement. Hi. MR. RICHARD WEISS: We have noticed executive sessions on both the Bal Harbour Club litigation and the AVA litigation, but we're only going to have it on the Bal Harbour Club litigat ion because the issue s in the AVA litigation are basically the same. The AVA motions which sort of get you to the PERSONAL TOUCH REPOR TING, INC. (305) 944 -9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 same place as the Bal Harbour Club motions are sche duled for the same time and place as the Bal Harbour Club motions, and we don 't need to go over it t wice. So just understand that basically the AVA motions are the same as the Ba l Harbour Cl ub motion, and that's all we're going to say about the AVA case. Andy? You'r e on. MAYOR HIRSCHL: T he time i s now 4:1 1 and we'r e about to have an a ttorney-client session in accordance with Florida Statute 286.011 regarding t he l i ti gation styled Bal Harbour Club, Inc. versus Village of Bal Ha r bour, Case Number 99-27948 CA 11 . Discuss i on will be co nfi ned to th i s case only. The session is set to last one half hou r and the following people wi l l be in a t tendance at the meeting: Myself, Vi l lage Council members, Mr. Roth, Mrs. Gorson, Mr. Tant l eff. Mr. Boggess is absent. The Vil lag e Attorney i s Weiss, Helfman, and Daniel Weiss --that's Ri cha r d Weiss and Daniel Weiss --Vi l lage Manager Alfred Treppeda. These proc e e dings will be recorded by a PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 certified co urt reporter. At the conclusion of all litigation, the transcript we make will be made part of the public record. All i ndividuals who I have no t named should leave the room at this time, p lease . (Thereupon, Elissa Wright left the room.) MR. RICHARD WEISS: What we are able to discuss in these executive sessions, again, is e xp enses of litigation and settlement discussions. In order to give you an opportunity to really address the settlement discussions that we have had, I'm going to ask Danny Weiss to please give you an update on what's happened in the litigation and then, Andy, maybe you want to present or Steve can present it, whatever you want, what happened at the meeting tha t you had. Dan? MR. DA NIEL WEISS: To bring you up to date on this case, the Bal Harbour Club case, I wou l d like to take you back to the time it was filed . I t was f i led very recently. 1999. I t wa s fil ed in December of The reason tha t it was filed was the rezon i ng denial wh ich also occurred during that same t i me, PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944 -9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 6 just a few days apart. You will recall you had held a public hearing at that t i me and determined to deny the rezoning request on a second occasion. Promptly, the Bal Harbour Club proceeded to Court and they filed a Complaint in the General Jurisdiction Division in two counts, which were sort of dupl i cative of each other just asking for two forms of relief. They asked for the Court to issue an injunction and to is sue a writ of mandamus essential l y requir i ng you, the Mayor and Village Council, to grant the rezoning . We moved to dismiss this for a variety of reasons, one of which is that we felt it was only proper for such a decision to be considered not by an individual Judge of the Court, but by a three Judge panel. Another defense that we raised was that it's improper to seek a writ of mandamus with regard to a d i scret i onary decision, protecting your right to exercise your discretion in this kind of context where you had an evidentiary hearing and you made findings of fact. Third, we ind i cated to th e Cou rt that it was PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 11 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 7 improper to request an injunction or a writ of mandamus where there is another adequate remedy at law . Essentially, we told the Court that the other remedies available were simply a petition for certiorari, which any party is entitled to take after a rezoning decision whether it's a rezon i ng denial or a rezoning grant. There were a number of hearings held on these i ssues and ultimately the Administrative Law Judge ruled as we had contended that these decisions in this case should be made only by a three Judge panel. You also recall that ve ry recently , j ust last month, April 18th, you had scheduled a Comprehensive Plan amendment hearing to consider a down planning or a considera tion to plan the Beach Club property as recreationa l . Shortly before that hearing was scheduled to be held, the Bal Harbour Club proceeded into a Court with a separate motion which they styled a verified emergency motion in which they requested three forms of relief. One is they wanted the Court to issue an injunction to keep you from going forward with the PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING , INC. (305) 944-988 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 public hearing. Another is they wanted the Court to issue immediately a mandamus to tell you what to do, to say that you must rezone the property . 8 Third, to hold you in contempt for not following what they viewed as a Court mandate to rezone in the underlying case, which you'll recal l from 1997 and 1998, there was a manda te and a decision of the Court issued Ju ly 31st, 1998 going back to the initial proceeding. So where are we with all this? On May 22nd, a week from this corning Monday at 4:00 p.m., there is now a hearing scheduled on these motio ns fi l ed by the Club and they are to be heard, as we requested , by a t hr ee Judge panel. That three Judge panel consists of two of the members of the original panel, Judges Gross and Lando. Since the third member of the panel is no longer si t ting on the Bench because she's moved away, the Court has a ppo inted J udge Scott Silverman to compl e t e the panel. During the course of hearings in which the parties have maneuv ered to put themselves in the best possible posi tion for the ultima te hearing, a PERSONAL TOUCH R EP ORTING, INC. (305) 944 -9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 request was made by the Bal Harbour Club to bring before this three Judge panel a transcript of proceedings that were had before Judge Gross on Ap ril 17th, an d that was the day before your scheduled April 18th comprehensive plan hearing. 9 At that ti me, Judge Gross entertained the same motion that I described to you which is to be heard on May 22nd by a three Judge panel, and the Club proceeded to explain to the Court why they fe lt that the Court should immediately mandate you to rezone the property based on their fili ngs in this case. We appeared in Court, bo th Joe Serota and myself, and we explained to the Court that first o f all, the Court didn't have jurisdiction to grant the relief requested because this could only be done by a three Judge panel and in any event, the Court did not have authority to enjoin a legislative act; that is your duly noticed consideration of a Comprehensive Plan amendment. Judge Gross at that hearing disagreed with us and he made oral rulings granting all the forms of relief that the Club requested, inc l ud i ng an order to s ho w cause why you, the Council and Mayo r , should not be held in contempt for failing to PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 11 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 follow the mandate of t he Court in the first instance. 1 0 Curiously, ri ght after this hearing when all the attorneys went back to their offices, we found that on the preceding Thursday unbeknownst to any of us, two orders had been en tered by Judge Friedman, t he Administrative Law Judge, with regard to proceedings, and one of the orders that he entered spec ifi cally said that a three J udge panel should hear these matters. So Judge Gross then ordered us to reconvene that same afternoon, Monday, April 17th at 3:00 p.m. to address these issues. At that time, the Judge conceded that he didn't have the right. He didn't have the authority to entertain these matters based on Judge Friedman's ruling. And again, essentially, that was the argument that we had that made, that Judge Gross d idn't have authority to address these matters. So as a result, they're now going forwa rd to May 22nd before the three Judge panel. For this hearing, what the Club attempted to do was to get a transcript of this first hearing where the Judge very vigorousl y ruled against us and stated al l the reasons why. PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC . (30 5 ) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 1 Obviously, t he reason to do this would be to i nf l uence the other two Judges on the panel who were not present at Judge Gross's convened hearing. we strongly ob jected to that and Judge Gross said it was not proper to br ing the transcript before the three Judge panel. He ruled in our favor on that issue and he sa i d that this May 22nd hear i ng should be a "do-over." I n other words, we start from sc r atch at that t i me. The Club will have the opportunity to state a t all t heir reasons based on the existing r ecord why they think they're entitled to the relief that they're requesting and we will also have the opportunity to r es pond and indicate why this relief should not be given. But really whe re we are as a practical ma tter is that the issue is joined, it's crystallized, the papers have been filed in Court, and it appears t hat the Court is --i f we can make any inference f rom Judge Gross's oral rul i ngs which were later rescinde d in the afternoon, the indication is that the Court is anxious to ru l e on the merits o f what i s before it. We're not going to get into any detail a bout PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 the AVA case, but as was said in the public meeting, as Richard told you, the AVA case is also set for the same time for hearing and they have already been granted a motion to expedite their proceeding. So what we expect is that very shortly after that hearing, if indeed not immediately after the hearing --which the Court would have the right to do --the Court could meet shortly in chambers and then come back and orally announce its ruling. The Judges agreed upon that. So we do expect that there will be a ruling shortly after that time on the merits of the question of the propriety of your second denial of rezoning, which again occurred in December and was adopted as Resolution Number 602 of the Bal Harbour Vi l lage Council. Do you have any questions? ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: Let me know if this is appropriate, but I asked Richard if it's appropriate to file a motion to have Judge Gross excused given the fact that he is completely tainted and biased going into what should be an open-minded hearing given the fact that on that Monday morning, the 17th of April, he spewed his PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944 -9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 opinion all over the place and already ruled against us. 1 3 MR. RICHARD WEISS: Understand, it is not an evidentiary h ear ing before that panel. In other words, there's not going to b e witnesses at tha t panel. It's j ust an oral argument . ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF : But he's already made up h is mind. MR . RICHARD WEISS: First of all, we researched this carefully. We don't think there's any way that with a straight face we could file a motion to get the Judge recused. MAYOR HIRSCHL: It sounds like we made a mistake and we should not have challenged the Bal Harbour Club for getting a transcript of that hearing brought into t hat three Judge panel beau se that shows clearly Judge Gross's pred is posed opinion. Had you not fought that and had it gone into Court, then we had further ammunition that we now no longer have to make the argument that Mr. Tantleff is suggesting. MR. RICHARD WEISS: Wel l, if we were to make a case at some point that he's predisposed -- MAYOR HIRSCHL: Well, we know that. It's PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944 -9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 21 22 23 24 25 witnessed. We witnessed it . MR. R I CHARD WEISS: The point is that i t i s not un u sual --Judge Gross MAYOR HI RSCHL: Judge Gr oss is upset beyond b e l ie f . MR. RICHARD WEISS: J udge Gross -- MAYOR HIRSCH L : Judge Gr oss is part of the original panel -- MR . RICHARD WEISS: Right. 1 4 MAYOR HIRSCHL: who wanted us to zone the property. He hasn't changed his mi nd one iota. MR. R I CHARD WEISS : Righ t. MAYOR HIRSCHL : He's irate . He wants to p u t us i n contempt -- MR. RICHARD WEISS: Right . MAYOR HI RSCH L : He wants to s a nc t ion u s . He wan t s to do what e v er h e can to nail Bal Ha rbou r Vil lage. MR. RICHARD WEISS: Right. MAYOR HIRSCHL: I t was obv i ous a t the h ea rin g . MR. HEL FMAN: R i g ht . Let me j ust sa y this. Wha t I wa nt e d to say i s this. It is no t MAYOR HI RSCH L : It d oes n't l oo k. PERSONAL T OUCH RE POR TING, INC . (305) 944-988 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 5 MR. RIC HARD WE ISS: It i s not unu s ua l f or an appel l a t e panel to be asked to clarify what t hey meant. What is happ e ning in th i s par t i c ular case is --and it's not unusual for an appellate panel to say, you stupid whatever. We t old you what we want e d y o u to do. Now do it . MAYOR HIRSCHL: Right. MR. RICHARD WEISS: Because th e motion clarificat i on is gene r ally f i led by th e los i ng pa r ty. In other words, you think you can get an edge. Maybe they d i dn't r e al ly mean what they said. Normally, what happens is, you get a ruling back that says, we told you what to do. It was clear in the order. Now do it. Now, what you're arguing is by v irt ue o f the fact that Judg e Gross --I me an, Judge Gross obviously felt strongly about the original case. MAYOR HIRSCHL: Right. MR. RICHARD WEISS: And Judge Gross t hen expressed those feelings in this other proceeding, in the proceeding that shouldn't have happened. MAYOR HIRSCH L : Okay. MR. R I CHARD WEISS: Okay. Judge Gross i s PERSONAL TOUCH REPORT I NG, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 6 entitled to --I mean, it's not like Judge Gross has these feelings arising out of some other case. That's a ground to have somebody recuse themselves. The feelings that Judge Gross has are a result of h i m hear i ng this whole story in th e appellate --I mean, he's got noth i ng against Bal Harbour Village i tse lf . He's irate because h e went through this wh ole appellate p roc eeding and we d id n't do what they told us to do. Now, if that was a grounds for MAYOR HIRSCHL: I thought we did, Richard. You, as our attorneys, t old us that they said, go back and rehear it . MR. R I CHARD WEISS: Well, we told you -- MAYOR HIRSCHL: We did. We -- MR. RICHARD WEISS: You did. MAYOR HIRSCHL: We reheard it. MR. RICHARD WEISS: Judge Gross is obviously of the opinion that the Court's order said not only go back and r ehear it, but go back, rehear it, and grant it. MAYOR HIRSCHL: Okay. MR. RICHARD WEISS: So that's the issue -- that's the guts o f the issue before the panel on PERSONA L TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944 -9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 7 the 22nd , which is: Did t he Court mean to go back and rehear it and do whatever you felt was the appropriate thing to do; or did the Court say, go back, rehear it , and rezone it? ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: ~et me ask you -- n o t to p l ay Monday morning quarterback, but didn 't we ask you at the very beginning to file a motion for clarification? I had spoken with other law fi rms and we -- MR. RICHARD WEISS: It was one of the things that we talked about. I think the reason that we rejected it was because I don't think we honest l y wanted the answer. ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: But now when we get the answer, it can be a worse answer. MR. RICHARD WEISS: I t's going to be the same answer we got before. We decided not to do it because we felt we had instructions. There was some informa t ion that the Counc il --that had come to light -- MAYOR HIRSCHL: But as you say, this is not evidentiary -- MR. RICHARD WEISS: It's not evidentiary. It's just going to be the lawyers' arguments . PERSONA L TOUCH REPOR TI NG, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 MAYOR HIRSCHL: What can you argue at this point? 18 MR. RICHARD WEISS: What we're going to argue at this point -- MAYOR HIRSCHL: What are you going to argue? MR. RICHARD WEISS: The issue at this point is: was the evidence presented at the -- MAYOR HIRSCHL: Second MR. RICHARD WEISS: second hearing sufficient to allow you to rule otherwise. The first question is: Did you have any discretion at al l? In other words --the first question I said, which is: Was this to hold a public hearing and just do what they said, or was it to hold a real public hearing? They've got to get over that hurdle first -- MAYOR HIRSCHL: Right. MR. RICHARD WE I SS: Now, assuming that they get ove r the hurdle that it was a real public hearing and you had the ability to do a couple of different things, the question is: By virtue of the evidence that was present at the second public hearing, was that enough for you deny the rezoning? That's what's going to be presented to the PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 Court and it's based upon the record that Skip Taylor made and COUNCILMAN ROTH: Doug Rudolph. 19 MR. RICHARD WEISS: and Doug Rudolph, the testimony and so for th, and that's all that's going to be cons i dered. MAYOR HIRSCHL: Who is going to be arguing that? MR . RICH ARD WEISS: We really haven't decided yet. We really haven't decided yet. MAYOR HIRSCHL: It looks as i f --and I know, Dan, you're trying to paint a picture as even ly as possible. It looks as if we're on the losing end of the stick here. At this moment, it doesn't look too promising. MR. RICHARD WEISS: No, not at all, not at all. MR. HELFMAN: But, Andy, it never --at least from our perspective, we had a pretty good feeling the fir st time when the Court issued its opinion. After we went to the Third District and we lost there and we end up back with Judge Grass's written opinion s igne d off by the two ot her Judges, we amongst us lawyers had a pretty good PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944 -9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 20 understanding from our experience. When you have got a denial of a rezoning and the Court says you made the wrong decision, go back, 99 percent of the time, what local governments do is they go back and they rezone the property. You al l believed that in the i nterim, you became aware of new ev i dence, if you will, that he original Comprehensive Plan was prejud i ced through all of this. So you decided that you would do what maybe one percent of municipalities do and not rezone the property, but actually hold a hearing and deny it again for a different reason. MR. R ICHARD WEISS: An d you asked -- MR. HELFMAN: And they obviously challenged us. AVA took it up one way, the Club took it up another way. But at the end of the day at the end of May, we're going to find out whether the conflict of interest issue was sufficient and adequate for you all to not grant the zoni ng. MAYOR HIRSCH L : Judge Gross has already commented on that. MR. HELFMAN: Judge Gross has already told us very clearly. He's one vo t e that's saying, PERSONA L TOUCH REPORTING , INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 21 listen . You guys knew what you were supposed to do and I'm prepared to give you sanctions for not doing it. He thinks that your action is that egregious, but fortunately fo r us, we were able to maneuver ourselves out of his jurisdiction because of confusing orders that we got when he got back to the office, telephone calls, and we wi ggled out of a ve ry difficult situation -- ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: That was only temporarily . MAYOR HIR SCHL : R i ght . MR. HELFMAN: and got us three or four more weeks now and we have an opportunity now -- MR. RICHARD WEISS: Steve, can I just s t op you --and if you don't like me saying this, I'm sorry about it. Bu t don't forget the fact that we have told you from the beginning th at --I mean, we found a way for you to have another hearing. I don't want you to think that we have a great chance to win this case. We have always told you that we d on't. MAYOR HIRSCHL: Well, it's interesting to me --stop me if I MR. HEL FMAN: Right. PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 22 MAYOR HIRSCHL : What's interesting to me is that had we not had a Comprehensive Plan change, Mr . Schulman could n ever have argued the rezoning of that property in i tia lly to us. MR . RICHARD WEISS: That 's correct . MAYOR HIRSCHL: Okay. That is a fact. MR. RICHARD WEISS: Correct . MAYOR HIRSCHL: The Court is us i ng that fact as the reason to do the zoning. MR. RICHARD WEISS : Correct . MAYOR HIRSCHL: Okay. We discovered that that crucial document, that Comprehensive Plan, was manipulated. MR. RICHARD WEISS: Rig ht. MAYOR HIRSCHL : It was manipulat ed . Whether it was one person or 10 people, it was manipulated. MR. RICHARD WEISS: Right. MAYOR HIRSCHL: The Court does n't seem to care about that, when that really is the meat of the coconut. That's the crux of this whole thing. That allowed Schulman to allow the Club to get rezoning . MR. RICHARD WEISS: Well, we're going to see because -- P ERSONAL TOUC H REPORTING, INC. (305) 944 -9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 15 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 MAYOR HIRSCHL: It doesn't make sense that that issue has zero merit. 23 MR. RICHARD WE I SS: That issue has never been heard by the Court. MAYOR HIRSCHL: But the view that -- MR. RICHARD WEISS: No. Judge Gross MAYOR HIRSCHL: It was one or two Council members. You had five people voting. It doesn't make a difference. sa i d So he's already seen that and MR. R I CHARD WEISS: Two other Judges have the ability to look at this issue and maybe they ---- maybe they will say MAYOR HIRSCHL : You have better faith in the legal system than I do. MR. RICHARD WEISS: I don't have any faith it at all. I think we're going to lose . MAYOR HIRSCHL: In my mind, Mr. Gross has called Mr. Lando and Mr. Silverman and they've already made up their minds. MR. RICHARD WEISS: And Lando is on the other panel. MR. HELFMAN: And you're absolutely right . I think Lando wi ll do MAYOR HIRSCHL: What Gross does. PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944 -9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. RICHARD WEISS: The only chance --the chance that we have here is that Scott Silverman is a good Judge, a smart Judge, and Scott Silverman could ask some questions that could What they do is, they meet privately -- ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTL EFF: Can we be there? MR. RICHARD WEISS: Yes. ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: Can we testify? MR. RICHARD WEISS: No. There's no testimony -- 24 ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: But as lawyers -- MR. RI CHARD WEISS: No. Do you want to argue the case? ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: No, I don't. But I'm just say ing that t h ey don't seem to understand the MR. RICHARD WEISS: I mean, we're going to decide. But whoever is going to argue the case for the Village is going to get crap beat out of them. MR. HELFMAN: T hey understand very well what we're saying. I t's not that they don't get it. They get it . What they're saying is MR. RICHARD WE I SS: They don't care about i t . PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944 -9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. HELFMAN: --we heard your case and we told you to rezone, and that's it. It's not a question of going back and holding a whole other hearing. 25 MR. RICHARD WEI SS : It's only one person out of five. Why? I don't know. don't care about it . I don't know why they MAYOR HIRSCHL: Look, we are not sitting here in judgment of you. MR. HELFMAN: We understand. MAYOR HIRSCHL: We knew we did not have a good case going in. MR. RICHARD WEISS: Right. MAYOR HIRSCHL: We understand that . MR. RICHARD WE I SS: What I don't want you to do is -- Dan, I don't wan t to --you know, to some extent, I'm being somewhat defens i ve about i t. We have been able to extend this thi ng. You said, why did we have the public hear ing and blah, blah, b lah. We found a way to you to have a public hearing MAYOR HIRSCHL: Right. PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. RICHARD WEISS: --and it was an aggressive -- MR. HELFMAN : Very aggressive. MR . RICHARD WEISS: a very aggressive authorization on our part. 26 In other words, I would say t hat if you spoke to a lot of City Attorneys, they would ~ay, just rezone the damn property. That's what the Courts told you to do. So we found a way for at least you to get this evidence on the record. MAYOR HIRSCHL: If the Court mandates us to rezone -- MR: HELFMAN: Right. MAYOR HIRSCHL: can we then go to the public for a referendum on this, or are we completely shut out? MR. RICHARD WEISS: We can appeal. MAYOR HIRSCHL: We cou ld appeal the COUNCILMAN ROTH: Can we appeal to the Supreme Court? MR. RICHARD WEISS: No. We appeal to the Third District Court. MAYOR HIRSCHL: The panel's new decision. MR. RICHARD WEISS: Right. PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING , INC. ( 305) 944 -9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 27 MR. HELFMAN: Except that the Third Distri ct has already said, we're not interested in h earing your case, either. MR. RICHARD WEISS: It's been up there once already. MAYOR HIRSCH L : So let's assume they say now, we don't want to hear the appeal. Then what? over . MR . RICHARD WEISS: Honestly? MAYOR HIRSCHL : Yes. MR. RICHARD WEISS: I've got to t e ll you -- MAYOR HIRSCHL: Tell me . MR. RICHARD WEISS: I think it should be MAYOR HIRSCHL: We fold. MR. RICHARD WEISS: I think that --and actually, let's go into the settlement issues ASSISTANT MAYOR TANT LEFF : We ll , what if we buy t he property? Are we talking about like other options? MR . RICHARD WEISS: Not in this meeting . ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: Okay. MR. RICHARD WE I SS: Not in this meeting . ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: Okay. MR. RICHARD WEISS: Not in this meeting, but I think that the point is -- PER SONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944 -9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 Now, before the Judge issues its ruling, before t he Judge issues its rul ing -- ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: What i s it, a three Judge panel? MR. RICHARD WEISS: Yes. 28 --if there's as opportunity for some sort of sett l ement See, t he truth is that the reason it's di ffi cult to have a settlement in this case is because just from a --is because of the fact -- well, why don't you talk about your settlement? --because of t he fact we don't have much leverage. ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: Can I just ask one question be fore we go on to settlement? MAYOR HIRSCHL: Sure. ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: Just to fin i sh the legalese of it all. What if the first question the Court says no, we had no right to hold a public hearing? MR. RICHARD WEISS: Right. ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: What happens then? Then there is no MR. RICHARD WEISS: They probably won't delineate it that way, but if I was a Judge, I PERSONAL TOUCH REPOR TING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 would say, we told you it was a mandate. There was a public hearing only in name. we told the m to rezone t he p ropert y. You didn't rezone the property and t he testimony and stuff -- 29 They should have jus t opened and closed the public hearing as a formality, which is what, as Steve said, 99 percent of the jurisdictions would have done. MR. HELFMAN: And just so you've got the proper framework. What t he Court told us to do was go back and conduct fur ther proceedings consistent with its opinion. We went back. We held a further proceeding. We believe what we did is consistent with their decision. They te ll probably come back and say, what you did is not consistent with our decision. T he only thing you could have done to be consistent with what we wrote was to rezon e that property. So that's really the heart of the argument . We're going to say, you told us to go back and have another proceed ing , we did, and we acted we believe --consistent wi th your decision. PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944 -9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 30 Okay? Because the Comprehensive Plan was in your decision. The importance of it was there. The validity of it was there. We're going to argue as best we can that what we did was consistent with what their opinion was. MR. RICHARD WEISS: And we're go ing to argue that if a Comprehensive Plan was basically tainted, then the Village Council should not be stuck with it forever. policy argument. I mean, that's our public MR. HELFMAN: Right. MAYOR HIRSCHL: Sounds good to me. MR. HELFMAN: And we'll see. Judge Gross didn't seem to like it. Hopefully, the other two Judges will like it when we get there. ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: Before we get to settlement, what do you think happens on May 22nd if they rule against us? MR. HELFMAN: I think they're going to issue an order that says, rezone the property within X amount of time or e l se, we're going to find you in contempt. MR. RICHARD WE ISS : That's the best thing that could happen. PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 94 4-98 84 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: And th e worst MR. HELF MAN: The worst is, rezone it. 31 You're in contempt and you pay a fine and you pay their lawyer's fees. COUNCILMAN GORSON: What happened to the opinion that Mr. Miller said the State was behind us, that we should live up to not having that Comprehensive Plan. He said the State was behind us. MR. HELFMAN: Yes. Well, what he said was, what we have been doing was somewhat separate and distinc t from these suits is pursuing the down planning of that property. COUNCILMAN GORSON: Right. MR. HE LFMAN: T he Court on a temporary basis effectively said, don't down plan that property and we followed and we asked you not to conduct that hearing because you were under a Court order at that moment, which was later vacated not to have that proceeding. But the down planning is what he said the State will support. He's spoken to the State and they're saying, if you down plan this property, we'll support it. That's a good planning decision. PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 32 So tha t 's what Mr. Miller has been wor k i ng on and we expect that --I don't know what you're going to do, but we expect that you're probably going to go back and explore this down planning issue against. Maybe after the Court's decision, it will shed some light on how much flexibility are the parameters that we have and the authority that we have to down plan it. MAYOR HIRSCHL: Assuming that the Court rules against us next week week, i s it? Two weeks? is to MR. DANIEL WEISS: Yes. MR. HELFMAN: Yes. MAYOR HIRSCHL: our only remedy to fight appeal to the Third DCA? MR. HELFMAN: Yes. MAYOR .HIRSCHL: That's the only -- MR. HELFMAN: Tha t's i t. MAYOR HIRSCHL: --avenue to go? MR. HELFMAN: That's it . You can't go anywhere --I mean, maybe there's the right on some cases --I don't know even know --to go from the Circu i t Court to the Supreme Court. even think so. I don't But noj that's it . That is the Court of PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944 -9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 appeal. ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: And what about what the Mayor asked about, the re fer endum? Is that for another discussion at another time? MR. RICHARD WEISS: It doesn't matter. 33 MAYOR HIRSCHL: If the Th ird D.C.A. says no, do we have any ability to appeal further? MR. HELFMAN: No. MAYOR HIR SCHL: That's the final authority? MR. HELFMAN: That's it . MR.-RICHARD WEISS: The Supreme Court does do they have discretionary jurisd i ction, Dan, for MR. HELFMAN: Conflict? MR. R I CHARD WEISS: --to take an issue of great pub lic importa nce ? MR. DANIEL WEISS: Not without an opinion. MR. RICHARD WEISS: Not without an op ini on. If the Third DCA deal with the case. there's two ways they can First, they ca n rul e for us. Second is, they can issue an opinion that rules --they can rule for us and write an opinion, which would be great. They could rule against us and write an PERSONAL T OUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 34 opinion, which would be also good because then we migh t be able to appeal to the F l o rida Supreme Court. MR. DANIEL WEISS: No -- MR. RICHARD WEISS: Or they cou l d just deny i t and say, we don't want to hear the case. On that one, there's no way t o go to the Supreme Court. COUNCI LMAN GORSON: They can do that? MR. RICHARD WE I SS: Yes. Well, t hat's what t hey did last time. It 's called a per curiam. Right? MR. HEL FMAN: T hey basically l o oked at i t and said, we're not going to take this case. The lower Court d i d t he right thing. They don't even pay a t tention to i t . COUNCILMAN ROTH: May I ask som e thing? Suppose there are five peop l e; AVA, Bal Ha r bour Club, Sam Schwartz, Charlie Brown, o r whateve r . MR. RICHARD WE I SS: Cha rlie wa s never on the Council here. COUNC I LMAN ROTH: But all five have a right t o sue the Village ? MR. R I CHARD WE I SS: I think it 's a PERSONAL TOUCH R E PORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 l9 20 21 22 23 24 25 35 stronger -- COUNCILMAN RO T H: I mean, who are we dea l ing with? We're dealing with -- MR. RICHARD WEISS: What do you mean by five people? COUNCILMAN ROTH: Five --I mean, we have two people that are fighting the Village for zoning . MR. RICHARD WEISS: I t doesn't matter how many peop l e . It does not matter. COUNCILMAN ROTH: Okay. So , in other words -- MR. RICHARD WEISS: I thought you were sayi ng if there were five people on the Council t hat were tainted -- COUNC I LMAN ROTH: No. Two, we thought might have been tainted. MR. RICHARD WEISS: Wel l , there was really only evidence on MAYOR HIRSCHL: Just t he Mayor of the town. That's all. COUNCILMAN ROTH: The Mayor of the town and the MR. RICHARD WE ISS: And maybe one other. COUNCI LMAN ROTH: --and maybe one-sixth or one-eighth of -- PERSONAL TOUC H REPOR TI NG, INC. (305) 944 -9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 MAYOR HIRSCHL: Anyway, I think it's offensive t hat we can't argue that po i nt. MR. RICHARD WEISS: We are argu i ng it. MAYOR HIRSCHL: Successfully . MR. RICHARD WEISS: Oh, successfu l ly. Well, again, the issue i s: Do we have a forum to a r gue it. MR. HELFMAN: Right. That's really the i ssue. 36 MR. RICHARD WEISS: The issue is, I th i nk they could well rule that that hearing was --that we shouldn't even have had the hear i ng. MAYOR HIRSCHL: Right. Let's ta l k about our meeting, if we may, unless you have MR. HELFMAN: We didn't answer your question. COUNC I LMAN ROTH: The question is: When you say we may have liability to AVA and to the Bal Harbour Club, how many people can own the property? MR. RICHARD WEISS: Well, depending on COUNCILMAN ROTH: I mean, other than a partnership. MR . HELFMAN: There's nobody else. MR . RICHARD WEISS: No . PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944 -9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. HELFMAN: There's nobody else that you have any exposure to. 37 COUNCILMAN ROTH: Yes, but between the two of them, we really don't know who's the rightful owner. MR, HELFMAN: We know who the owner is . COUNCILMAN ROTH: The guy who owns all the shares, the Bal Har bour MR. RICHARD WEISS: But in order to get damages from us, they would have to file a law suit and prove their damages. MR. HELFMAN: Which would be very difficult. MR. RICHARD WEISS: They would have to prove their damages, but -- COUNCILMAN ROTH: Wel l , that's the point that I was worried about. MR. RICHARD WEISS: The longer this goes, Steve, the eas i er it is. The Club --it's easier for the Club t han it is for AVA. COUNCILMAN ROTH: Because they own all the shares. Righ t ? AVA has noth i ng. MR. RICHARD WEISS: Incidentally, we have been concerned about this all along, which was the suit for damages. MR. HELFMAN: Okay. That leads into the PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944 -9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 settlement discussions. COUNCILMAN ROTH: That's right. MR. HELFMAN: I received a call from Carter McDowell represen t ing Joe Imbesi, the Club -- COUNCILMAN ROTH: Johnson, or whatever. MR . HELFMAN: And they wanted to meet. You all said that that was fine. You asked the Mayor to act as your liaison, and we went to the meeting. What they said to us at the meeting -- MR. RICHARD WEISS: Andy, do you want to present what happened at the meeting? 38 MR. HELFMAN: Let me just start a nd then I'll let you get into i t. MAYOR HIRSCHL: I 'll let the attorney do it. MR. HELFMAN: The prem i se of the meeting was that the Club up until very recently had taken a back seat to AVA, that they had not taken any aggressive actions in terms of lawsu i ts or anything. I think that that's true, giving them credit for that. I think that that's true. They basically let AVA be the bad guys a l l the way through . Imbesi sort of sat back and watched. They felt that when we went to down plan the PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944 -9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 39 property, that that was direct ly threatening to them and they felt and wanted to share with us that they were now in more of an all out mode of defending themselves and bringing action against us, in cluding seeking sanctions as the y did before the Court. Then they went on to say but they don't really want to do that. We have forced them to do that because we not only denied the zoning, but that now we're taking affirmative steps to try to down plan them i n an effort to take away even what the Court may d i rect you to do. So they felt they needed to take a more aggressive role. Having said that, the n they said, there's no point to us fight ing . Why are we fig ht i ng? Wh y are we spending lawyers' fees? Can't we resolve this? So at that point, Andy said, "Well what do you sugges t?" They indicated that we should just rezone the property. Andy to l d them, "Fo rget it," and I'll let you take th e story from there. MAYOR HIRSCHL: We ll, I had a lovely tu na sandwich. It was a beautiful luncheon during PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC . (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 40 Passover -- ASSISTANT MAYOR TA NTLEF F: Was it a lunch or a luncheon? At the club? MAYOR HIRSCHL: No, here in the conference room. It was a lun cheo n --it was lunch. We ate, we left, we talked. You know, here we are. We're at this meeting and we're looking at Carter McDowell and we say, "well, do you own this property? Do you not own thi s proper t y?" We don't, as a Council, know who owns the property. We're not even clear about that. COUNCILMAN ROTH: That's correct. MAYOR HIRSCHL: He made a comment regarding, "Well, we better get along with you because we'll need variances. Once we get zoning, we need you. We s houldn't fight with you. We need you." Those were h i s wo r ds t o us and we didn't make any we were v ery careful not to make a comment at all at all --based on t ha t remark. But they are sens iti ve, obviously, to the fact that even if we lose --the City loses --and the developers prevail, that th ey need the Council to work with to put together some package that makes economic sense for everybody concerned. PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, I NC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 11 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 41 So of course, we suggested that they get along wi th AVA, work out their own differences, come back to us, and then let's find one group to talk to and work something out that we a l l can live with. COUNCILMAN ROTH: Exactly . MAYOR HIRSCHL : And I'm not going to capsulize it that qu i ckly, but what am I missing? What MR. HELFMAN: No. That's really the essence. Now, they came here with some concept and I know this because I had a sort of off the record d i scuss i on with a developer who the Club -- I mbesi --is talking to about joining them if the Club clearly secures the right to the property and gets rid of AVA. They have had d iscussions with a guy who's doing the Ocean Club project on Key Biscay ne whose nam e is John Hinson. Hinson came to me once an d said, "List e n, if the Club wins and AVA's out, I believe that I'm going to be the deve lo per with I mb esi and Johnson." He said that he would know how to resolve this and the r eason he would is because he had a PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, I NC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 similar problem on Key Biscayne --and we kn ow about that because we were the lawyers. 42 Basica l ly what they did is , they dona te d two acres of oceanfront property to the Village a nd in exchange for that, the Village let them build their project. So he said to me , "If we could basically get rid of AVA and I can get in there, we think that there's a way that we can resolve this with the Village." Now, I don't know whether they're going to give you two acres of oceanfront land -- COUNCILMAN ROTH: I think it's more. Is it four acres? MR. HELFMAN: --or what they're going to do. There was some discussion --Andy, I think we should tell them --about the potential of in suring that the yacht club was never developed; that if they had the ability to develop on the ocean side, they would commit not to build on the yacht cl ub or possibly build a few --we didn 1 t talk about a number homes in the yacht club area and get rid of the yacht club in it s entirety and build homes there. MAYOR HIRSCHL: We also mentioned the concept PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 2 1 22 23 24 25 43 of access from people on the west side of Collins Avenue -- COUNCILMAN ROTH: To get to the ocean. MR . HELFMAN: To get to the ocean. MAYOR HIRSCHL: No, an easement, an easement. We also discussed the fact of maybe building an oceanfront club MR . HELFMAN: No. They said they would -- MAYOR HIRSCHL: for all the residents of Bal Harbour to use on that property. MR. HELFMAN: As part of the site. MAYOR HIRSCHL: You're right. And I did mention at Palm Beach at the Ritz Carlton Hotel the old La Coquille Club, which was the predecessor to the hotel structure; to settle the deal, La Coquille was given a club within the hotel to appease all of those residents that were members of that entity. MR. HELFMAN: Right. MR. RICHARD WEISS: Here's a basic question in terms of going forward with settlement discussions. I think you guys should have a l i ttle discussion about it because Carter McDowell, I bump into him all the time. PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 1 12 13 14 1 5 1 6 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 Is there a settlement that would be acceptable to th e Council which would COUNCILMAN ROTH: How soon would those two settle, AVA and Imbesi? MR. RICHARD WEISS: COUNCILMAN ROTH: I don't know -- That could drag on 44 MR. HELFMAN: Well, the problem that t hey have in coming forward --I'm sorry. The problem that they have, they said they're prepared today to make a deal with us. MR. RICHARD WEISS: Let's assume -- MR. HELFMAN: Their problem is that if they do, they can't bind up AVA. If AVA for some small chance i s successful and secures the rights to the Club properties, they may not be bound by the settlement that we entered into. MR. RICHARD WEISS: Let's just assume for a second that we could clear up the thing and we know who owns the property and there's no sort of potential rights out there. Is there a settlement t here? Forget abo u t the details. Is there some tree out there that we could bu i ld ? Is there some settlement out there wh i ch wi l l allow th e m, which would be acceptable PE RSO NAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944 -9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 45 to the Council because I have had some ind i vidual discussions with you that caused me to question. Is there a sett l ement where the best possible structure would be built on the oceanfront with whatever you want to think about it: A private Club for the residents, access to the tennis courts, access to the beach, rights to free parking, whatever you want to say wi th, let's say, very limited development on the west side. MR. HELFMAN: Or not. MR. RICHARD WEISS: Or not. COUNCILMAN ROTH: What type of development are you talking about? How many units? How tall? How wide? MR. RICHARD WEISS: Sy, let me make it easy. None. Just for the moment. MR. HELFMAN: On the west side. COUNCILMAN ROTH: Oh, on the west side. MR. RICHARD WEISS: and on the east side basically a high-rise structure sim il ar to what COUNCILMAN ROTH: One. MR. RICHARD WEISS: One. Let's just say one --similar to what you have been looking at over there, you know, similar to what's being built over there. PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 46 Is that kind of a settlement anything that we should pursue? Be ca use --and you can imagine all the good things you want to throw in on the east side that you can. It's a beautiful building. It's got a pr i vate club for Bal Harbour people. There is free food. There's free drinks. What ever you want to thr ow in, throw in because if I can't get a yes on that answer, then I don't know where we go in settlement. COUNCILMAN ROTH: I think the whole site i s four acres. It's 400 by 400. MR. RICHARD WEISS: Right. COUNCILMAN ROTH: Now, when he sa id they donated two acres, there's no way MAYOR HIRSCHL: That doesn't apply to u s. That's an example of give and take. ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: Good will. COUNCILMAN ROTH: We had that out in Davie. MR. RICHARD WEISS: The question is: Is there a settlement possible where virtually -- where most of the give is on the west side and on the east side, we have the k i nd of things we talked about. Is that something that's acceptable? PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 11 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COUNCILMAN ROTH : Can we talk openly here? MR. RICHARD WEISS: Yes. MAYOR HIRSCHL: This is a business meeting. COU NCILMAN ROTH: I think if our attorneys 47 feel strongly we're going to lose and the lesser of the two evils is Imbesi because AVA, you know they'll go for the max. Th ey 'll want to build on the west side. They'll want to build MAYOR HIRSCHL: Right. COUNCILMAN ROTH: --whatever they can build on the east side . So I think we could make a settlement. If our attorneys feel it's inevitable, then the zoning that --they're allowed a certain zoning under the Village Code, anyway. MAYOR HIRSCHL: Right. COUNCILMAN RO TH: They could go 17 floors and then every floo r higher, they've got to go -- MR. RICHARD WEISS: Correct. COUNCILMA N ROTH: What it is. MR: HELFMAN: Right . COUNCILMAN ROTH: If we could work out something --and it's inevitable that we're going to lose --work out something where we have the least amount --nothing on the west side, a PERSONAL TOUC H REPORTING , INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 11 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 smaller structure, the least units, possibly access to the people on the west side -- 48 MAYOR HIRSCHL: I think it's a simple yes or no. Do you think it's a settlement that you can come up with, is the question. Say yes. COUNCILMAN ROTH: I think we should settle. We're going to lose. MAYOR HIRSCHL: You think yes, there's a way you could settle it? COUNCILMAN ROTH: If we could get away with less than what we would -- MAYOR HIRSCHL: I want to make a comment. MR. RICHARD WEISS: if we l ost than what we could get under the law. MAYOR HIRSCHL: Before the other two Council members make their comments, I want to make one comment which will come out in the wash eventually. That is: This Council should be very proud --very proud --and specifically you guys . You're newer on the Council. You should be very, very proud --and I mean this because I have thought about this a lot. You promised your constituents that you would PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944 -9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 11 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 do e verything in your power to control development, everything you could. COUNCILMAN GORSON: That's right. MAYOR HIRSCHL: There isn't one person 49 there isn't one person --who can fault this Council for the steps we have taken so far lega lly to You can't win every battle and I'm -- COUNCILMAN ROTH: You've got to take a half a loaf MAYOR HIRSCHL: The spin I'm putting on this is the fact that you are able to make a settlement and save face at the same time. I want you both to understand that. Understand that. Politically, spiritua l ly, every way y ou can think about it , you have shown exemplary judgment and leadership in trying to do what you felt is the right thing to do. But sometimes the chips don't fall the way we want them to fall and if we lose -- COUNCILMAN ROTH: Then they're going to get the max. MAYOR HIRSCHL: --we need to hav e a specter of understanding that we need to b e able to settle . PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 11 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 50 Do you understand that concept? Wi thou t you losing fac e of th e fact that you have done everything you can. Do you understand that? COUNCILMAN GORSON: Yes. MAYOR HIRSCHL: And, Mr. Roth, you have -- COUNCILMAN ROTH: If you lose, the ou t come is going to be not as good as yo u can g e t -- MAYOR HIRSCHL: If you lose and you have to rezone, you do no t have to give any variance whatsoever. COUNCILMAN ROTH: That's true. MAYOR HIRSCHL: However -- COUNCILMAN ROTH: But they may build something that you stil l may not like under the Code. MAYOR HIRSCHL: They're not go i ng to build they're going to want var i ances. They're going t o want varianc es . COUNCILMAN ROTH: They can build two 17 story buildings. MR. HELFMAN: They're go in g to want variances. MAYOR HI RS CHL: Don't k i d yourself. Therefore , you a r e ab l e to, I believe, s t ill in the spir i t of doing someth i ng tha t is th e best PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944 -9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 11 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 51 for this community put your pulse into what occurs on that site, put your finger on it and dictate policy what you can ultimately end up with. So I'm not a quitter. None of us are quitters up here -- COUNCILMAN ROTH: No. Absolutely. MAYOR HIRSCHL: but we're realists. MR. RICHARD WEISS: Just to add to this . Remember that what I've been nervous about COUNCILMAN ROTH : You've been nervous is righ t, for six months. MR. RICHARD WEISS: I'm very nervous about it is, I'm worri ed about the civil rights lawsuit. ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: Right. MR. RICHARD WEISS: And I've told you about this and I'm worried. I 've told you about the Gould case. I mean , in terms of what Andy is saying, this Council honestly --I've been here almost 20 years and this Council went a hell of a lot further than I would have liked you to go, honestly, because I felt MAYOR HIRSCHL: I would like to hear from Mrs. Gorson when you're done. Could you live with a settlement? PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 13 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COUNCILMAN GORSON: I wouldn't like it, but I'll have to live with i t. MAYOR HIRSCHL: Could you live with a settlement? ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: Well, I want to say for the record brie fly that I still be lieve that when they put th is village together, that that spine is supposed to be here. It's right t here i n the picture (indicating). 52 MAYOR HIRSCHL: I don't think anybody that's he re disagr ees wit h you. ASSISTANT MAYOR T ANTLEFF: Yes, and if the Council agrees we should try to settle and our attorneys think we'll lose, then in good faith I think with my back against the wall. happy about it, but I would go for it . I'm no t But I do think that spine was there for a reason COUNCILMAN ROTH : Our back is against the wall. Our spine is against the wall. ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: Well, let me ask one qu estion . Let's say what the Mayor was just speaking about. We propose a settlement. Clear it up because I don't think Councilman Roth or I understand. Who owns the Club? PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MAYOR HIRSCHL: We don't know. COUNCILMAN ROTH: Wel l , we're mak ing the assumption -- 53 MR. HELFMAN: It wouldn't matter. The reason it wouldn't mat ter is because any settlement that we would do would be related to the land. No matter who owned it, those are the restrictions on the lands. They could sell it 10 more times. At the end of the day, the document would say, this is what can go here, and that's the only way we would even consider allowing you to settle something. If for some reaso n that could change when ownership chang ed , then you have no deal. You know, who cares? We're not going to do that, and that's the big problem here. See, Imbesi can settle with them, but by pr inci ple, he doesn't want to pay them a dime MAYOR HIRSCHL: Correct. MR. HELFMAN: --and that's wha t he shared with us; that he and Charlie Johnson, who's got all of the money COUNCILMAN ROTH: Yes. MR. HELF MAN: don't want to pay any money. They feel that there's a settlement there -- PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 54 at least, the impr ess i on I got --where if they wrote a check to AVA, they could get rid of them. COUNCILMAN ROTH : Of course. MR. HELFMAN: But they don't want to writ e a check --not because they can't afford it, because of pr i nciple. But I think at the end of the day, if they get smart and t hey look at it like businessmen, they'll say hey, the City is willing to work with us. We can write a check to get rid of these guys. Why are we fighting? MAYOR HIRSCHL: It was very evident that Mr. McDowell representing Imbesi was extremely nervous and conciliatory say i ng, please rezone it and we've got to make you guys happy because we need variances from you. MR. HELFMAN: Yes. Th ey know they need them. MAYOR HIRSCHL: We need you. We don't want to upset you, which i s why he said he's held back from suing us MR. RICHARD WEISS: Let me ask a question, which is: In t his regard, I think it's worthwhile if Andy and Steve are going to go ahead for you to at least give us some ideas as to the kinds of things you would l ik e to see in a settlement. P ERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 55 MAYOR HIRSCHL: Mr. Roth made it very clear. I think as low -- COUNCILMA N ROTH: Leave the west side alone. MAYOR HIRSCHL: Leave the west sid e -- COUNCILMAN ROTH: Right. MAYOR HIRSCHL: On the east side, you suggested a luxu ry high-rise low density COUNCILMAN ROTH: A la towers where they had 114 units -- MAYOR HIRSCHL: Low density high-rise. COUNCILMAN ROTH: --but very expensive, exclusive --Bal Harbour Towers, 9999 Collins Avenue. MR. HELFMAN: One way to do th i s, Andy -- COUNCILMAN ROTH: They have 300 feet and they have 114 units. This is 400 fee t . MR. RICHARD WEISS: Is there any sort of -- I'm going to call it --gingerbread that you feel is imp o rtant to be asking them f or on the east side that wou ld make this MAYOR HIRSCHL: Beach access. MR. RICHARD WEISS: That's what I'm trying to find out. MAYOR HIRSCHL: Beach access is a must. MR. HELFMAN: Is there anybody on the east PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944 -9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 13 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 1 8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 side who does not have beach access? COUNCILMAN ROTH: Not really. It would be for the wes t side. 56 MAYOR HIRSCHL: But your populations in Districts Four and Five don't have beach access at a l l . That half the city. MR. HELFMAN: I'm saying, that's gingerbread for the west side, beach access. MAYOR HIRSCHL: Let's talk about the east side now. MR. HELFMAN: What benefits could the east side enjoy that COUNCILMAN ROTH: Setbacks. MAYOR HIRSCHL: A luxury -- COUNCILMAN ROTH: Extremely luxury building s . If they ha ve a club for the condominium owners there -- MR. HELFMAN: Like 3,500 square feet or something? MAYOR HIRSCHL: Less. COUNCILMAN ROTH: No. The Bal Harbour Towers has --oh, not less than 3,500 square feet . MR. RICHARD WEISS: Right. COUNCILMAN ROTH: Yes, okay . Bal Harbour Towers is -- PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 11 1 2 1 3 14 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 57 MR. RICHARD WEISS: And wh o would that luxury club be open to? MAYOR HIRSCHL: MR . HELFMAN: Residents of the Village -- Ri ght. COUNCILMAN ROTH: res i dents of Bal Harbour. the condo owners and MR . HELFMAN: MAYOR HIRSCHL: of Bal Harbour. Al l residents. All residents of the Village MR. HELFMAN: That's right. MAYOR HIRSCH L : We're representing the whole Village . MR. RICHARD WEISS: Right, for al l residents of Bal Harbour. MAYOR HIRSCH L : We're representing the whole Village. Not that you're telling us what you need, but you have had experience with gingerbread gifts. Give us a list of these gifts that have come with developers to allow them to be built. MR. HELFMAN: Well, there's financial donations. MAYOR HIRSCHL : Right . COUNCILMAN ROTH: We don't want that. MR. HELFMAN: Well, I don't know that you PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 17 18 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 58 don't need them. MAYOR HIRSCHL: Don't say that, Steve. MR. HELFMAN: There are contributions o f land. I don't think they could do that, but maybe there's an acre of land here and they can still build on three acres . I don't know. MAYOR HIRSCHL: Maybe. MR. HELFMAN: It's a possibility. The west side --now, this is the west side of MAYOR HIRSCHL: We discussed that. No development. We have already dis cussed that. MR. HELFMAN: No, no, the west side being deeded to the Village. MAYOR HIRSCHL: Possibly. MR. HELFMAN: No t just no development; that the west side be deeded as a park to the Village -- MAYOR HIRSCHL: I h ave a problem with that. MR. RICHARD WEISS: He has a prob l em with that. MAYOR HIRSCHL: I would object to that specific language. MR. RICHARD WEISS: I'm just giving you ideas. You could restrict that park for usage PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 It gets complicated, but there's a way to accomplish those kind of things . You could have them contribute money to the school. MAYOR HIRSCH L : Why couldn't t hem also contribute to our beach renourishment pro ject? MR. HELFMAN: Absolutely. MAYOR HIRSCHL: Big-time. COUNCILMAN ROTH: Oh, you mean the -- MAYOR HIRSCHL: The walkway. 59 COUNCILMAN ROTH: That's not renourishment -- The government -- MAYOR HIRSCHL: No, the bi g project. COUNCILMAN ROTH: The million and a half dollar project. MR. HELFMAN: Absolutely. COUNCILMAN ROTH: A third of the cost of -- MR. RICHARD WEISS: Rich Sherinberg (phonetic} on Key Biscayne when he got his project approved --you cou l d have that COUNCILMAN ROTH: You're on the right track. Keep going . MR. RICHARD WEISS: You could have them have some co n tinu ing responsibility for beach nourishment. PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. ( 305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 1 8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MAYOR HIRSCHL: In addition to paying for this project. COUNCILMAN ROTH: The beachfront nourishment -- MAYOR HIRSCHL: Please, please. Let him speak . 60 MR. RICHARD WEISS: Whenever we do beach renourishment, they're to responsible to pay some percentage of it. COUNCILMAN GORSON: A certain percentage. MAYOR HIRSCHL: Stop. Mr. Roth, the distinction of renourishment and refurbishment are two different things. COUNCILMAN ROTH: Right. MAYOR HIRSCHL: We're talking about our beachscape project -- COUNCILMAN ROTH: Right. MAYOR HIRSCHL : that we're about to plop down a million and a half for. COUNCILMAN ROTH : The landscaping, the walkway -- MR. RICHARD WEISS: Correct. COUNCILMAN ROTH: --the dunes. MAYOR HIRSCHL: Maybe that property maintains the jogging path -- PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 COUNCILMAN ROTH: That's all we'r e talking about. Renourishment i s don e by the engineers. MAYOR HI RSCH L : --those sort of projects. ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: I need to h e ad ou t . Could I just hear your comments? 61 MAYOR HI RSCHL: My comments? I hav e n't made my comments. like I'm really f ra nk ly against se tt ling. I wou l d COUNCILMAN GORSON: So am I. COUNCILMAN ROTH: No on e wants to sett le. MAYOR HIRSCHL: Are you suggesting that this potential settlement discussion occur before Dan's Cour t hear i ng? ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF; It has to. COUNCILMAN ROTH: I think they should start. Otherw i se -- MR. RICHARD WE ISS: leverage. I think y o u hav e more I don't think we have much to --I think to t h e extent we ha ve le v erag e , it's the variance issu e which doesn't go away, win or lose . MAYOR HIRSCH L : Well, a que stion then . If we lose --which you guys think we will P ERSONA L TOUCH REPO RTING , INC. (305) 944 -9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 62 and I think we will, too if we l ose, don't we then have the ability to go through this wish list at that t ime or do you think we're better off before? MR. RICHARD WEISS: First of all -- MR. HELFMAN: We have less to negoti ate with because if we lose MAYOR HIRSCHL: Yes. MR. HELFMAN: ~ezone that property. then we're going to have to At that poin t, why do they want to talk to us at all except for those variances? ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: Well, that's enough of a reason. MAYOR HIRSCHL: If they we re going to build a Plaza of Bal Harbour type of structure, they can, but they're not going to be able to and make money on it. There's no way. I t can't be done. COUNCILMAN ROTH: Andy MR. RICHARD WEISS: You don't th ink --I'm just asking you to be a real estate developer for a second. You know, the ultimate threat here has always been the box. MAYOR HIRSCHL: Right . PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. ( 305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 13 14 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 63 MR. RICHARD WEISS: That's been the ultimate threat. You don't think --you know, I know that people were trying to do something with the Bal Harbour -- MR. HELFMAN: The Surf Club? MR. RICHARD WEISS: No, no, no, with the -- wi th Taplin's build ing. COUNCILMAN ROTH: Harbor House. MR. HELFMAN: Yes. MR. RICHARD WEISS: Trying to make that into condo units and stuff like that. MR. HELFMAN: Another tower potentially. MR. RICHARD WEISS: You don't think there's enough opportunity here to put some medium sized apar tmen ts there, lots of th em, 17 floors, one after one after one, and sell them to -- MAYOR HIRSCHL: Of course, there's a poss i bility. COUNCILMAN ROTH: Absolutely. They could put two 17 story it's 400 feet . I'd rather have one building than two 17 story buildings. MR. RICHARD WEISS: I do n't know. I'm not a real estate develope r . They cou l d have one PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 64 COUNC IL MAN ROTH: T hey could have 300 uni tes there . MR. RICHARD WEISS: Three hundred units like the Harbour House. COUNCILMAN ROTH: No. They could have two 17 story buildings like the 101 or the Tiffany or the Kenilworth. MR. RICHARD WEISS: I'm trying to assess how much leverage that we have in order to answer your question . COUNCILMAN GORSON: What is their restriction at the moment? MR. RICHARD WEISS : I'll tell you something else. I'd much rather --you know, once you have you have been held in contempt by the Court, to some extent the Court takes control of th ings . It's a much cleaner way. I also think it gives us some sense of urgency to get this done, you know, to try to do it in the next --what is it? A week or two? MR. DANIEL WEISS: It's a week from Monday. COUNCILMAN ROTH: I think we should do something great. MR. RICHARD WEISS: If we could do it PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 quicker, I think it's better. COUNCILMAN ROTH: They could use that as arguments for variances -- MR. HELFMAN: One final thought. One final thought. 65 One way to accomplish this is to get both of those parties together and say, we don't care if you beat your heads in. You guys can fight for the next 10 years . If you both join in the agreement, whoever the winner is, the winner is. Here's the project that the Village would be willing to accept and you guys beat yourself up over it all day long. Have fun. You could resolve the issue that way. The other thing is that if we felt that some fruitful discussion was happening, it wouldn't be unusual to agree to a continuance or a stay COUNCILMAN ROTH: That's it. MR. HELFMAN: of th i s hearing pend i ng settlement discussions. MR. RICHARD WEISS: Depending on how cranked up the Judges are on it. ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: Oh, they're cranked up. PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. HELFMAN: Yes but if the parties come forward and say we would like our motions to be stayed and the hearing to be stayed -- MR. RICHARD WEISS: You could also ask them for reimbursement of your attorney's fees. 66 COUNCILMAN ROTH: As part of the settlement , okay . ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: Writ e it down. MAYOR HIRSCHL: How about my advanced hair loss for several years of aggravation? That's not funny. MR. R I CHARD WEISS: We wanted to do -- because we didn't want to pursue any sort of settlement discussions along those basic patterns unless we felt that a majority of t he Council, that that's what you guys wanted us to do. COUNCILMAN ROTH: I think the west side was sort of an agreement that they 're going to be very happy, no development there, leave it alone, the ya cht club. We have to placate a little bit the east side. MAYOR HIRSCH L : Well, here's how you placate t he east side. You placate them by you suggesting the PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC . (30 5) 944 -9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 11 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 67 COUNCILMAN ROTH: Bigger setbacks. MAYOR HIRSCHL: --ultimate new luxury Bal Harbour building with all the amenities accessible to the residents of the Village, as we discussed, with financial concessions that help the bottom line of our tax basis, with all the amenities that we need to keep that beachfront beautiful, the jogging path which they will help underwrite the cost of MR. RICHARD WEISS : You could add MAYOR HIRSCHL: Make them buy our own cleaning machines, Al. We could buy our own cleaners . Right now, we use Dade County sweepers. Make them buy them. I mean, it's lim i t l ess. MR. RICHARD WEISS: We could add things on to the tree until it falls . You add as much on to the scale until -- MAYOR HIRSCHL: Did we get to all the members of the Council? COUNCILMAN ROTH: It's in their interest, too, because they're so magnificent they're going to sell those apartments at an extremely highly price. You know, three, $400 a foot now is not out of line. PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC . (305) 944-9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. HELFMAN: I'm not even sure that it's going to even happen, but -- 68 COUNCILMAN ROTH: I think if you could get a stay, we should. ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: I have t o go, Mr. Mayor. MAYOR HIRSCHL: Let me just make this statement. There seems to be consensus, gentlemen, to -- MR. HELFMAN: To explore. MAYOR HIRSCHL: t o explore settlement. MR. RICHARD WEISS: Yes. MR . HELFMAN: Yes. MR . RICHARD WEISS: I have a l i st of 10 items. MAYOR HIRSCHL: Are we finished? MR. HELFMAN: And we have the authority to add items to it, I hope. COUNCILMAN ROTH: The b i ggest se t backs possible between the buildings. ASSISTANT MAYOR TANTLEFF: Will the Mayor be in this with you again or how is thi s MAYOR HIRSCHL: I'm representing you, absolutely. MR . HELFMAN: He'll be here. PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, IN C. (305) 944-9884 /. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 69 MAYOR HIRSCHL: I will now reopen t he public meeting. The attorney -client sess i on has now been terminated. The members o f the general public are now invi t ed t o retu r n. Any furthe r proceedings or ma t ters? any t hing e l se to come before us today? (No response.) MAYOR H I RSCHL: I s t here a mot i o n COUNCILMAN ROTH: I make a mo ti on MAYOR HI RSCHL: Second? COUNCILMAN GORSON: Second. MAYOR HIRSCHL: All in favor? THE COUNCIL (IN UN I SON): Aye. t o t o I s the r e adjourn? adjourn. MAYOR HI RSCHL: The meeting is adjourned. Thank you, gentlemen. (Thereupon, t he deposition was adjourned at 5:05 o'clock p.m.} P E RSONAL TOUCH RE POR T ING, I NC. (305) 944 -9884 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 11 1 2 13 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 25 70 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER STATE OF FLORIDA) ss. COUNTY OF DADE I, CAROLE BERNARD BECKER, a Notary Public in and for the State of Florida, do hereby certify that I reported the foregoing executive session at the time and place hereinabove set forth; and that the foregoing pages numbered from 1 to 69, inclusive, constitute a t r ue and correct transcription of my shorthand report of the hearing. WITNESS MY HAND AND SEAL in the Steve of Miam i , Dade County, Florida, this 11th day of May, 2000. CAROLE BERNARD BECKER PERSONAL TOUCH REPORTING, INC. (305) 944-9884