HomeMy Public PortalAbout2008-04-15 AttorneyClient Session CASE 03-21932CA231
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VILLAGE OF BAL HARBOUR
ATTORNEY/C L IENT SESSION
BAL HARBOUR VILLAGE HALL
655 96th STREET
BAL HARBOUR , FLORIDA 33154
TUESDAY, APRIL 15 , 2008
8 :04 a .m. -9 :22 a .m.
21 Taken before Mary G . Stephenson, FPR , Notary
22 Public for the State of Florida
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TAYLOR REESS AND ASSOCIATES , INC .
(30 5) 444-7331
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1 A PP EARANCES :
2 COUNCILME MBERS :
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JEAN ROSENFIE L D, ASSISTANT MAYOR
JOEL S . JACOBI
MARTIN PACKER
JAIME M. SANZ
VILLAGE MANAGER :
ALFRED J . T REPPEDA
VILLAGE ATTORNEY :
WE I SS SEROTA HELFMAN
PASTORIZA COLE & BONISKE , P .A .
BY : RI C HAR D WEISS , ESQ .
MICH A EL POPOK , ESQ .
1 4 VILLAGE CLERK :
15 ELLISA HORVATH , CMC
(PRESENT ONLY DURING PUBL IC PORTI ON)
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TAYLOR REES E AND ASSOCIATES , INC .
(305) 444-7331
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1 The r eupon, the fol l owing proceedings were had:
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ASSIS TAN T MAYOR ROSEN FIEL D: I t's Tuesday
morning, Apr il 1 5th.
meeting to order.
I'm calling t he public
May we have a roll call , p l ease.
MS. HORVATH: Assistant Mayor Rosenfi e ld .
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROS E NFIELD~ Present .
MS . HORVATH: Counc i lman Jacob i.
COUNC IL MA N JAC OBI : Here.
MS. HORV ATH: Councilman Packer .
COU NCI LMAN PAC KER: Here .
MS . HORVATH: Councilman Sanz.
COUNCILMAN SA NZ: Present .
ASS IS TANT MA YOR ROSENFIE L D: Accordi ng to
my watch , it is now 8 :04 a .m., and we a r e abou t to
h av e an attorney/client session in accordance with
Florida Statu t e 286 .0 1 1 r ega r ding the li t igat i on
s t yled Babak Raheb ve r sus Vi ll age of Ba l Harbour ,
case number 03 -21932 CA 23 in the Circuit Court of
the 1 1th Jud i c i al C ircui t , in and for Miami-Dade
County, Fl orida.
T he sessio n is estimated to la st for one
h o u r and the foll owing people will be in
a t tendance a t this meeting : Myself and the
vill a ge councilmemb ers; Counci l man Joel Jacobi,
TAY LOR RE ESE AND ASSOC I AT ES, INC.
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Councilman Mar tin Packer, Councilman Jaime Sanz ,
and Assista n t Ma yor Jean Rosenf i eld , and the
Vil l age Atto rney Michael Popok, and Village
Attorney Ri chard Weiss , and th e Village Manager
Al f red J. Trepp eda.
The proceed i ngs wi l l be recorded b y a
certified court repo rte r and at the co n clusion of
a l l litigation discussed , the transcrip t will be
made part of the public record .
All of those indiv idua ls who I have not
named should lea ve th e room at th i s time .
(Thereupon, the i nd i v iduals no t named left
t he room. )
MR . WEISS : Good morning. We are starting
to get you up early t his mo rni ng .
As you remember at the l ast executive
session that we had , the council authorized us ,
ga ve us a sense o f the council to move ahead wi th
a settlement which was i n essence a d i smissal of
th e l awsuit , full re l eases from Mr . Babak, and a
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two part payment .
basical l y damages .
One part was $25 ,000, which was
The second pa rt was another
$24,000 which was a consul tin g contract , a n d t hen
we were to get whatever money we could fr om the
insu rance company , a l thou gh t hat is not the
TAYLO R REESE AND ASSOCIATES , I NC.
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vil l age 's obl i gation , and i t wouldn 't offset the
village 's ob li gat io n, b u t i t wa s whatever we could
ge t fr om the insurance company.
So the pu r pos e of th i s i s to --the
se t t lement has basic all y moved forward, but one
aspect of t h e settl eme nt I want e d to brin g b ack
for disc ussion whi ch dealt wi t h this co n sulting
contract.
Th i s is pu r e l y a gut feeling on my part
regarding this consulting contract. J u st having
done t his for a very lo ng time, and, some h ow or
another, sort of word of this set t lem ent h as
g o t te n out a li t t l e b it in to t he communi t y , and
th e only real pus hbac k that I 'm fee l ing abou t the
way the thin g is structured deals wi t h this
consulting contract . I feel that, as I do n 't know
who sa i d it , but i t is wha t it is and t he truth is
t ha t we a r e pay ing the guy $50 ,000 . In go ing
t hrough this, when we first struck the sett l ement
we felt that for reaso ns we may b e --you know ,
Mr . Babak can be used by the vi l lage o r t h i s or
tha t , bu t th e truth is we a r e pay ing $50,00 0 an d
t hat is the way i t is . As we worked through t he
details of thi s and in terms of t he parties
including the i nsurance comp any , Mr . Ba bak , an d
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the attor n ey for t he insu r ance company, everything
i s rea l ly f in e . Thi s is a personal thing me to
you . I t hink t hat i f we are going to do t hi s and
my recommendation is i f we are going tq do t his
a n d spend th e $50 ,000 t o settle this l awsuit , you
should do it as opposed to having a whole other --
I t hink that whe n t his comes to a p u b lic meeting,
there is going to be a whole b un ch of discussion
about it . T here is going to be a bunch of people
who think that we shou ld n 't be spending th is kind
of money to sett l e this lawsuit.
I don 't th i nk the issue sho u ld be
complica ted a whol e wh y you are giving th is guy a
consul ting contract, what i s he going to be doing
f or the vi l l age.
So the r ecommendation here i s i f you a r e
still prepared to spe n d the $50 ,000 t o settle this
thing, you should j us t do it that way as opposed
to ha ving th i s whole r i g a ma r o l e with t he
consulting agreement which would have t o be
attached to the s e ttleme n t agreemen t mak i ng the
who l e thi n g very compl i cated.
Again, i t 's up to you as to wheth er you
feel l ike it's wor t h spending $50 ,000 to sett l e
t h e case . That is up to you, b u t the poin t I 'm
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making is if you are going to do it , I thi n k you
should do it in a straightforward way and say you
are spending $50 ,000 because I th ink it would
limi t the subjec t matter of the discussion as
opposed t o people s tar t ing to look th roug h a whole
settlemen t agreement, I mean a wh o le employment
agreement that we h ave drafted. What is this guy
go i ng to be do in g, who is he going to be reported
to, a ll of that .
So that is t he purpose of thi s , which is to
make our r ecommendation f or a modifica ti on of what
you previous l y approved and that is the reason .
It's not b a sed on any t hing that Mr. Babak h as
asked fo r o r t hat the i nsu r ance company has asked
f or . This is j ust my f ee l ing and Michael 's
feeling a fter having done t h is for --I have done
it for --you know, that just if you are going t o
do t his, l et 's do it in a stra i ghtforward way.
As t o whether you do i t , that is u p to yo u ,
b u t i f you wa nt to do it, I thi n k you shou l d do i t
in a s tra igh t forward way and not have this whole
cons ~l t ing ag ree men t which sort of compl i cates th e
thing . So that is why .
COUNC ILMAN JACOBI : As devil 's advocate ,
when I s it with c li en ts I take t he opposite side .
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That is how I get them where I need to get them.
What is to stop any other person in this
vi l lage from doing the ~ame t hing that Babak has
done? Nothing .
MR. WEISS : That is correct.
COUNCI LMA N JACOBI : We are naive to think
that someone else is not going to do what he did .
You are out o f your mi nd if you t hink that no o n e
else in this vi l lage is going to do t hat .
Once the floodgate opens , it's opened.
That is a major concern I have.
CO UNC I LMAN PACKER : T here fore , I believe
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t hat the sense of the counc il should not sett l e
t his case and t hat we should go forward to tria l
with full assurance that we wil l win this case a nd
i n case, in case it does go against the village,
in case it does , it's going to open up th e
floodgate as far as the secur i ty district goes
and, therefore , perhaps it might be very well tha t
that situat ion be ad j udicated and done not ju st
what
make
way.
open
the
was done years ago as a papered
sure t hat th i ngs were collected
The way Councilman J oel says ,
up the floodgates . I t is going
f loo dgates t o another challenge
TAYLOR REESE AND ASSOC I ATES, INC.
(305) 444-7331
over th i ng to
the r ig ht
i t 's going to
to open up
and it will be
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a never ending thing for the 300 residents that
are there . Each one will say, I 'm going to do it .
ASSISTAN T MAYOR ROSENFIELD : The thing that
d isturbs me is the tota l amount . He wants the
50,000. I think he wants anothe r 25 .
MR . WEISS : Whatever we can get from the
insurance company, wh i ch was what?
MR. POPOK: $25,000 .
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSENFIELD : T hen he wants
the 20,000 t h at he is in arrears erased.
COUNCILMAN PACKER: T h at he never paid for .
ASSISTA NT MAYOR ROS E NFIELD : I understand.
He wants it totally erased . I understa n d ,
a l though I ca n't get an exact fig ure.
T he re are five or six other residents t hat
have also not p aid their fees .
COUNCILMAN PACKER : I woul d slam the door
shut.
COUNC ILMAN JACOBI: On the other side of
it --
MR . WEISS: So I don't lose the thought , I
want to respond to two thing s you said j ust so I
make sure the record is clear on it .
F i rst of all, you said go ahead with the
lawsuit with full assurance t hat we a r e going to
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win . T hat is what you said .
CO UNCILM AN PACKER : As far as
MR. WEI SS : I want t o be very c l ear abou t
our l egal position on this , wh i c h i s I am not
giving you full assurance th at we are going to
win . I never hav e . What h appened was we know
there is an issue t hat has been raised . We feel
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we have --first o f all, ou r law firm is not eve n
defending this lawsuit. It 's being defended by an
i nsurance company . We are doing every t h i ng we can
to help th e i nsurance company a t torney who,
fran k ly , doesn 't know n ea r ly as much abou t this as
we do , but he 's the one defending t he case .
So in t erms of fu l l assurance , I'm not
giving you full assu r ance .
COUNCI LMAN PACKER : I didn 't want --i f
t h is is a lega l term --
MR. WEI SS : There is n o gua r antees h ere.
COUNCI LMAN PACKER : Of course there i s no
guarantees .
MR . WEI SS : I jus t wan ted to , you know
COUNC ILMAN PACK E R : Thi s I u nderstand , but ,
I mean, I 'm sure every atto r ney when he goes into
a su i t feels t ha t he is stand in g o n solid ground
to a certain extent th a t he is going to wi n t he
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case.
MR . WEISS: No .
CO UNCILMAN PACKER: No?
MR. WEISS : F irst of all , we didn 't go into
the sui t . We got sued. When we started to loo k
at this and I hav e ta l ked to each of you privately
in your orie n tat i on session , and I am seeing
everybody nod , that th ere are real concerns th at I
h a v e had for 2 0 yea rs abou t this whole securi t y
district, and I have a l ways been very up fron t
with eve r ybody abo u t i t . So I don't h av e any full
assu ran ce that this case is going to be won . This
was a system that Alan Gold, now fede r al j udge,
came up wi th to solve the problem in that area .
T hey have raised certain things . I think we have
some good defe nses and I think we probably,
Michael and I think that we have a decent chance
of winning. Th at is one thi ng .
MR . POPOK: But if we don 't
MR. WEISS: The second thing I wan t ed t o --
I 'm not at a l l jumping on yo u r words , but I want
to make sure you u n derstand.
COUNC I LMAN PACK ER : I unde rs tand .
MR . WE I SS : The second po i nt is that I
think t h e feeling I got from wh at yo u a r e say in g
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is that the residentia l area wi ll have to deal
with the problem .
In the worst case , I want to make it very
clear that the vi l lage in the very worst case
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could be f acing a tremendous liability here.
court could go back i f we lose the case --
The
COUNCILMA N JACOBI : This is our worst day
in court .
MR . WEISS: This is the worst day in court .
Tha t is a good way to say it , but I just wan t to
be o p en wi t h you about it because I don 't want
anybody to fee l t hat, you know, okay, if there is
a p r oblem , a n d you and I have talked about it . To
some ex t ent, f rankly, after 20 years of talking to
people about this, t o some extent it would be
somewhat of a re l ief to me if t he people in the
res i dential a r ea had to solve their own problem ,
wh ich is, Mart i n, what you we r e saying . If we
l ose the case , I don 't think that is a good resul t
for t he vi ll age because I don 't t h ink there is a
very easy way to so l ve the prob l em. So we are
obviously defend i ng it vigorously , bu t I want to
tell yo u that i n the wors t case scenar i o, a very
large l i abi l ity could come back on the vil l age ,
the village , not the residentia l a r ea because the
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vil l age is the one t hat has created th is dis t rict ,
not the residential distr i ct , and some of t hat may
no t be covered by the insu r ance company .
COUNCILMAN PAC KER : When you say worst case
scenario, I don 't fo llow what you mean.
MR. WEISS: The court can come back and
say
COUNCILMAN PACKE R: And backfire where?
MR . WEISS: The cou rt ca n come back and say
this thing was illegal from t he beginning . I t's
an i l legal special taxing district. It should
have b een approved by the county . You had no
right to co ll ec t any of this money , and you have
to ref und it a l l .
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSE NFIELD : Whic h would
amount to?
MR . WEISS: Which cou l d amount to mi ll i ons .
COUNCIL MA N PACKER : If it has to be
ref u nded to the resid e nts who paid for it
MR. WEISS: Which is a whole horror story.
COUNCILMAN PA CKER : Horro r s t ory.
MR . WE I SS : Half of them have moved out .
COUNCILMAN PACKER : I n a case like that --
MR . WEISS: Yes .
COU NCI LMAN PAC KE R: --not on l y would we
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have to refund , but they wou l d not ha v e go t ten a
free ride . These p eople who would be l ooking for
a r efund or wh ateve r it was , they still would no t
have t he free ride through the years .
MR . WEISS : That is a ve ry good p oint . We
en d up with , okay , we ll , you know , the vi ll a ge ha d
no abil i ty to reall y assess these people . They
h ave go t ten the i r l awns cu t and all that over t he
years . So now t h e village then wou l d have to t u rn
around and try to re cover money from these people .
Some of t h e m d on 't even l i v e the r e any more . Some
Some of them-who have of t h em who are dead .
fallen i n t o t he ocean . We don 't even kno w whe r e
they are. We w i l l nev e r f i nd them . Some are
l i ving in Europe . Some are liv i n g i n wh o kn ows
where. Tha t also is no t a great scena ri o because
th en you are t alki ng about the vi l lage going back
to t h ese peop l e and trying to recover t hi s mo n ey.
COUNCIL MAN PACKER : There fo r e , wou l dn 't it
be t he re sponsib il i t y of the ultimate cour t that
has ru l ed this way to g i ve r elief?
MR. WE I SS :
relief --
We l l , t hey would be giving
COUNCILMAN PAC KE R : To --I mean
MR . WE I SS : To figure it ou t ?
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COUNCI LMAN PACK ER : To figure it out
because of the fact there are some sort of statute
of limitations , aren't there ?
MR. WEISS : Ye s .
MR. POPOK : I don't th ink there wou l d be
statu te of li mitations for an illegal tax .
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MR . WEISS: For an illegal ta x.
MR. POPOK : If i t's unconstitutiona l .
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSENFIELD : I have a
question . When th is case ca me to f r uit ion about
25 years ago , was there a law at that time that it
had to have county approval?
MR . WE I SS : Was there?
There is a --the argumen t that we have is
that it i s a --their argument is it is a special
district , a special taxing district, which does
require county approval .
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSENFIELD: Twenty-f i ve
yea rs ago.
MR . WEISS: It was required . That is the ir
argument.
Our posit i on is it was a special assess ment
that the village has an ability to do and it
didn 't need to be approved by the county . That is
the basic argument .
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ASSIS TA NT MAYOR ROS E N F IEL D :
prece de nt f or th a t ?
The re is
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MR . WEISS : There is prec edent fo r it , yes,
bu t t hey cou l d say , norma ll y, th ese things are
set --t he reason this is so unusual is because
this is --if you t hi nk about th i s , and I have
used this with all o f you . This is l i ke a private
estate . Th at is what it is bac k there . If you
think of it as a private estate, al l that l and is
in there theo re t i cally under private ownership .
If you go back and look at all of that an d say,
y ou know, what business does the vil l age have
doing a special assessment on your condo , I mean,
it 's a whole --anyway , but, in any e v en t, t heir
argument is that i t s h ould h ave been approved by
the co u nty . When Alan Gold firs t enacted this
t hing , it was not done properly to begin with .
ASSISTAN T MAYOR ROSENFIE LD :
f ede ra l --
He 's now a
MR . WEI SS : He 's now a federal judge
a p pointed by the p r esident of t he United States .
ASSISTAN T MAYOR ROSE N FIE LD :
brought back to test i fy?
Could he be
MR. WEISS : Oh, yes. I d on 't th ink it 's
l i ke l y he would t es t ify.
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MR. POPOK : I 'm sor r y . I wanted to just
address one thing as a likely a r gument . This
dis t rict was estab l ished , wha t , about 23 yea r s
ago?
MR. WE ISS : I don 't know .
MR . P OPOK : Th i s i s t he on l y l awsu i t t h at
has ever been brought. I t has been pending f or
five years . Nobody has j oined in wi t h h i m . T h i s
is not easy money if it 's ul t im a t ely paid by this
cou n c il. I have been involved i n a lot of
l awsu i ts . I have bee n doing this for 1 7 years.
The f l oodgate a r g ume nt , we a l ways d i scuss i t
because client s are concern ed about i t, especially
when they fee l l ike they a r e v ulnerable. Ve r y
rarely do others decide t his i s easy money . I t 's
n ot e a sy money. I t 's f ive years tha t he has been
l itigat in g to get to a point of sett l e ment .
COUN CILMAN JACOBI : T he t endency of the
consti tu en t s of ou r community is to re l y on o t her
peop l e 's bac k s to let th em spen d t h e i r monies and
brea k t heir backs in o r der for them t o get a free
r i de .
MR . WEI SS : F ir s t o f a ll , Mr . Babak h as
spent I th i nk probably ove r a hundred thousand
do ll ars of h i s own mo ney .
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COUNCILMAN JACOBI : Is it a hu ndre d
thou sa n d dollars f o r t h is su i t or ever y t h ing
clu mp ed toget h er?
MR. WE I SS : F i rst of a ll , we were tol d .
COUNCILMAN JACOBI : We don 't ha ve proof of
tha t .
CO UNCILM AN PACKER : Has he p rove n wi th
chec ks tha t he s pe n t a hundr ed thousand dollars?
MR . WE IS S : No , becau se it 's not our
bus iness .
MR. POPOK : We don 't ask for checks in a
l awsu i t .
MR . WE ISS : It 's a p ri vilege .
COUNCILMAN PACKE R : We ll, anybody who i s
saying I want to g et $50,000 --
18
MR. WEISS : Whether it 's a hundred thousand
of 50,000 , whatever it is, we h a ve seen the
p le adings in t he case that the guy has filed .
Th ey are t hi s thick, and Joe l wi ll tell you that
whe ther it 's a hu ndr ed thousand or 50 ,000 or
25 ,000 , whatever the n umb er i s --
CO UNC ILMAN PA C KER : I t costs mone y fo r tha t
ma n y pleadings .
MR . WEISS : I t costs a l ot of money f or
that ki nd of p a per , but the point that I 'm ma king
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is that this laws u it , the way that we a re settling
it , the extent is he's admitt ing the va l idity of
t he dis t rict. I n other wo r ds, it 's not a
judgme n t .
scra t ch .
Somebody wou l d have to start from
COUNC IL MAN JA COBI : Is he going to make in
writing that he be li eves that there is a dis tr ict?
MR . WE I SS: He's admitt i ng in writ i ng the
va l idity of the d i strict, that it was properly
formed , that it is proper t o operat e . He has
agreed to pay the assessmen ts in th e f uture.
COUNCI LMAN PACKER : Wh at about t h e past
assessments?
MR. WEISS : The past assessments we are
r elieving about 12 --what i s it, about $12,000,
Mike .
MR . POPOK : Yes , it 's about .
MR. WEISS : What I 'm try i ng to do i s make
su r e you unders t a n d in terms of t h e p re ceden t
value, this set tl ement wi ll no t he l p anybody i n
the future . But , l isten , I have no crystal bal l.
I don 't know that somebody else mig h t say , l is t en ,
I 'm going to go i nvest wh at e v er t he amount of
mo n ey is , because t hey wi ll spend money . I am
go in g to invest f ive , ten , 1 5 , $20 ,000 and maybe I
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can get some money from the village , too . There
is no obliga t ion on the village to se t t l e that
case, but the point that you are making i s a good
one , whi ch is no t wit h standing that we really
th ought abou t h ow to sett le this case in t he way
tha t we c l ose the doo r forever, we don 't . I t's
not a class actio n . We have not been able to come
up wi t h a way t o sett l e t his case f orever .
So the point you are ma king i s a v alid one,
which is there is a potential . This do esn 't solve
this prob l em forever . Somebody else could turn
a r o un d t he next day and file a lawsuit.
absolute l y valid.
That is
COU NCILMAN JACO BI: How much are our fees
ri ght now?
MR . WEISS : We are no t litigating th e case.
COUNC I LMAN JACO BI:
h e l ping .
I know , but you are
MR . WEISS : We a r e he l p in g. I k new, Joel ,
at one po i nt , bu t I really don 't know. The main
wo rk is be ing done by the in sura n ce company and we
are trying to be supportive . Obviously , the
insurance l awyer is not even he r e .
COUNCI LM AN JACOB I: I 'm a be li ever i n stop
t h e bleeding of th is th ing. This is a case that
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you stop th e bleeding .
the f loodga tes because
However, I'm scared about
MR. WE I SS: Bleed again .
COUNCILMAN JACOBI: Bleed again, exactly .
Is the insurance company sti l l threatening
to come after us for any excess fees?
MR . WEISS: Yes . As part of t he
settlement, they are agreeing not t o , pa r t of the
se tt lement . The insurance compa n y has basically
filed in t his case wh a t is called a reservation of
righ t s, which means u nd er the law , the
obligation for th em to defe n d the village is
greate r than their obligation to pay . So t hey
ha ve to sta rt out by defending cases even if they
have a question as to whether i n the end they
would pay damages .
COUNC ILMAN JA COBI : Who is the current
judge ?
MR. POPOK: I t i s Sigler.
MR . WEISS : In this pa r t icular case, the
insurance company has taken the posi tion and they
have hired a separate la wyer to take the posit i on
tha t this is not covered . Rig h t?
MR . POPOK : Yes. T heir position is it is
not covered . They are willing in h ypot h esis if
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the council wants to go forwar d with the
resolution , they are on boa rd t o contribute
$25,000 and waive any r igh t to come back at the
v i l l age for fees or re covery or anything .
are on board .
They
MR . WEISS: As part of the settlement .
22
MR . PO POK :
MR. WE ISS :
settled --
It 's contingent on the council.
I f the case does not get
ASSIS TANT MAYOR ROSENFIELD : And we go to
co ur t .
MR . WEISS : --and we go to court , win or
lose, win or lose, if we wi n, there is a
possibi li ty that even if we wi n, t he insu ranc e
company can come back and say th is was no t covered
b y insurance and you owe us for the atto r ney's
fees, the vil lag e .
MR. POPOK : We will have a separate l awsuit
over coverage.
COUNC I LMAN PACKER: This is what bothers me
also. I have neve r --l ike I said, I'm not an
atto rney, but I neve r --if you have an a t tor ney
defending you , all of a sudden i f he loses the
case now he is going to see that --
MR . WEISS: He represents an insu ran ce
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company. The insura nc e co mpany --it happens
everyday , Martin .
a separate l awyer .
The i nsurance company has h ire d
Joel will tell you . This
hap pens every sing l e day.
COUNCILMAN JACOBI : Everyday .
MR . WEISS : It's called a reservat ion of
rig h ts , and they bas i ca l l y --the in surance
company has h i red a separa t e lawyer. It's because
the lawyer that is defending us , obviously,
doesn 't want to be adverse t o us.
MR . POPOK: He 's on o u r side .
MR. WEISS : They ha v e hired a separate
lawyer to basically preserve the ir claim that eve n
if we win this case , that they have the r ight t o
come back to us for t he attorney 's fees that the
i nsu rance company paid beca u se th ey t ake the
position th is might not have been covered under
t he pol ic y.
COUNCILMAN SANZ : If we win the case, it 's
sti l l not go ing to stop anybody e l se from the
village from suing u s.
MR. WEISS: T hat was th e point tha t they
we re mak ing. Yo u wi l l have to ma k e your own
assess men t as t o th e personal itie s in the vi ll age.
Oh, if we win th e case , we are done .
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COUNC IL MAN SANZ: Nobody cah touch us .
MR . WEISS : We are done . I f we win the
case, we are done because the court wi ll ru le that
it 's valid and i t was properly done and all of
that and we will be done with this .
Somebody might find another way, but if we
win this case, we a r e done , and the court has
b asica ll y blessed us .
ASSISTAN T MAYOR ROSENFIELD : I have a
ques ti on .
MR. WEISS : Yes .
ASSISTANT MA YOR ROSENFIELD : This 25 ,00 0 --
MR . WEISS : Pardon?
COUNC I LMAN SANZ: Why does i t have to take
so long , five years to get to this po int now? Why
didn 't we talk about a settlement before or
anyth i ng?
MR. WE IS S: Because , actually, we have
t ried over the years to t ry to settle this with
him and t he truth i s he has become much mo r e
mellow about thi s ove r t h e years . He was much
more strident and angry in the be g inning and you
have seen him sort of develop , if you watch the
council meetings , he has b ecome much more
conventional, and fina ll y he got to the poin t
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where , you know, he was start i ng , where he was
in t o the realm of reality in terms of the
settlement, but his demands in t he beginning were
ridiculous and t hat is why .
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSENF I ELD : Can he be
mellowed down? The question is 25 ,000, 25 ,000.
mean , theoretically , he can get as much as --
MR . WEISS: No. We know what the insurance
company number is . He is getting 75 ,000 . He 's
I
gett i ng 25 --could he be negotiated down? If the
council f ee ls like now that we know the insurance
company number, tha t they want to try to negotiate
down, we can do that.
ASSISTANT MA YOR ROSENFIELD : That is a
possibility. I mean, I don 't know what it would
ult imate ly cost us to go to co u rt , but I certainly
find that t he figure of $75,000 is outrageous.
really do . I fin d t hat just not acceptable .
I
Why
i s he entitled to 75,000 just because he was
persistent for five years? H i s pers i stence pays
off .
MR. WEISS : I think the reason , if you want
to settle the case, and, believe me , you can see
I 'm not pushing this one way or another . I'm just
pretend i ng. The reason you wou l d want to do it i s
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be ca use the downs ide for the people who l ive i n
the gated commu n i ty --Howard i s not here so I'll
make the statement tha t he would make . The
downside of t h i s for the people who li ve in the
gated community is very , very --is very large
because you know they will have no way to fund.
that gate.
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROS ENFI ELD : That is
another thing .
COUNCILMAN PACKER : T hat is another s to ry.
ASS I STANT MAYOR ROSENF I ELD : It 's not
really another story as f ar as
MR. WEISS: It 's another chapte r of the
same s t ory .
ASSISTAN T MAYOR ROSENFIELD : T he point of
t he other part o f that story is that the other
side of the street rea l ly doesn 't know what tha t
side of th e stree t has been get t i n g a l l thes e
years , and th is is go i ng to come ou t now , and I
hate to see div i siveness . I don't wan t
divis i veness in the vil l age .
COUNCILMAN PACKER : I agree a hundred
percent with you .
ASSIS TA NT MAYOR ROS ENFI ELD : If I would
live on the other side o f the street , I must tel l
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you that I t h i nk it's wonderful that t hey had
their grass cut, their trees tr i mmed. We don't .
We pay for ours ; and I think that is going to be a
bo i ling point.
COUNC ILMAN JACOBI : I t 's coming soon .
MR . WEISS: That issue, by t he way , i t has
been comi ng for 25 years.
COUNCILMAN JACOB I : I know .
COUNCILMAN PACK E R : I personal l y think --
you say that Mr . Babak has mellowed . Be l ieve me
if this is voted down, if this i s voted down, you
are going to see the worm turning, and turni n g
extreme.
MR . POPO K: I 'l l reinforce that . His
lawyer has a l ready called a bo ut what is the holdup
in the resolut ion.
COUNCILMAN P ACKER : I have spoken to h i m a
few times not about t h i s thing.
MR. WE I SS: He's vola t i l e.
COUNCI L MAN PACKER : He i s volatile and he's
mellowed down because he bel i eves , maybe he
believes that the counci l i s going along. My own
persona l feeling is I would let it go t o court and
t ake our chances. We canno t ge t , l i ke you say,
rest assured we wil l w i n , but I would take my
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c hance s wit h a fair judge for a fair pe rso n to see
with all the facts on the table to see what is
correct.
MR . WEISS : Okay .
ASSIST ANT MAYOR ROSENFIELD : How much will
it cost hi m if we go t hrough th e procedure? He
has to put up his own money.
MR . WE I SS: Yes.
MR . POPOK: P rob abl y another 30. The case
was
ASSISTA NT MAYOR ROSENFIELD: 30 ,000?
MR. PO POK : The case was on the trial
docket . We had to r emove it from the trial docket
to gi ve the council time to conside r the
settlement . It goes back on tri al docket. It
wi ll be called up for tr i al.
t o do i n the case .
T here is li ttle lef t
MR . WE ISS: It 's not really a l ong t rial .
You kno w, a coup l e days of t r i al and preparation .
ASS ISTANT MAYOR ROSENFIELD : Another
30,000, which doesn't seem to bother him .
MR. WEI SS : He has money .
ASSISTANT MA YOR ROSENFIE LD : I know. If he
p ays another 30 out of poc ket , t hat does not seem
to bothe r h im .
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Was t h ere a specific amoun t t hat he was
suing for i n the orig i na l suit?
MR. WEISS : No , there wasn 't.
ASSISTA NT MAYO R ROS E NF IELD: Wh at was th e
or igin al su i t askin g f or?
MR . WEIS S : T h ere was not a do l l ar amo un t .
CO UNCILMAN JACOBI : That i s a good
qu estion .
MR. WEISS : Th ere is no amount .
ASSIS TANT MAYO R ROSENFIELD : Wh a t did he
want t hen ?
MR . WEISS : He wanted to get r i d of t h e
secu r ity gate . He wasn 't suing us for money,
real ly .
COUNC IL MAN PACKER: He stopped p ayi ng hi s
assessment .
MR . WE I SS : Th ere is a money aspect to it
because he doesn 't want to pay , b u t the tru t h i s
the reason he did th i s , h e 's like an ind i vidua l
rights k ind of person . Th ere is a name t o i t.
forgot .
ASSISTAN T MA YOR ROSE NFIEL D : I know.
29
I
MR . WEISS : He f eels stro ng ly about his own
i n div id ua l r i ght s as a citizen. Tha t is whe re th e
emot ion co me s fro m. When he fi le d s u it ag ains t
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us, he fe l t like it was not being run properly ,
that t he Ken t Security and the whole situat i on was
nasty, and he rea lly wasn't l ooking for money.
What he was looking f or was to rid himsel~ of this
issue . And what he's trying to do in the
settlement is, okay , I'm agreeing basica ll y to
leave this thing alone . I'm okay with it based
upon certain what I view very mino r changes, and I
wou l d l ike the village t-0 contribute some money
back to my at torney's fees .
approach.
That is basically his
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSENFIELD : What if we
dissolve t he district?
MR . WEISS : If we dissolve the district
ASSISTANT MA YOR ROSENF I ELD : I s it all
over?
MR. WE I SS : I f we dissolve the dist r ic t,
per iod?
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSENFIELD: Yes.
MR. WE I SS: I th i nk p robably
MR . POPOK: On a going forward basis, it
would be over, not on a past assess ment.
MR. WE I SS: I don't know really what he
would do i n terms of the past money. I f we
dissolve the district, a couple of things wou l d
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happen . Probab l y , if we ju s t agree to get rid of
the dis t rict , at th i s point because I do be li eve
he has changed a l i ttl e · bit and realizes that the
value of h i s house and everyt hi ng else i s
dependant upon his secur it y gate, I think that
chances --I don 't know . I can 't tell you what he
wou l d do , but I will tell you what wou l d happen in
gene r al. Because of t he way when all of o u r
condominiums are formed, the homeowners
association part of the documents that you sign
when you go t o the condo or if it 's a home or an
association i n Weston o r Miramar, you agree to pay
all th e fees , and th e problem in tha t area has
been that when they c reat ed it , t here i s no condo
associat i on or h omeowners associa ti o n like you
wou l d have in one of these developments.
So the proble m they would have --I can 't
te l l you how they would so l ve the problem. T h e
problem they wou l d have is we would be back to the
pre Ala n Gold sys t e m, which is basical l y that
there be no money to operat e this gate, no money
fo r secur i ty.
ASS I STANT MAY OR ROSENFIELD : Bu t then t h ey
would form another homeowners association.
MR . WEISS: T h e problem is it requires in
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order to be able t o compel people , they n eed a
hundred pe r cent partic i pa t ion , and they are never
going to get tha t .
the years.
That has been their issue over
COUNCILMAN PACKER : That is t h eir prob l em.
MR . WEISS : I f I was l iving in there , I
would say , my God, that is the greatest bargai n i n
town , and I would sign docu ments . I would say,
where do I sign. However, knowing the 300 homes
that are ther e , whatever the number is --what is
the number ou t there, Al?
MR . T REPPEDA : 190 .
COUNCI LMAN PACKER : 1 90? That is all?
MR. T REPPED A: 190 homes .
MR . WEISS : 190 homes that are the r e , my
guess is t here would be some people that wou l d no t
sign , and t hey wou l d have a big problem.
I f we l os t or t he cour t would dissolve th e
district and said , you know what, we are done w i th
t hi s whole thing, then there is a whole situation ,
yo u know , there is the who l e thing because t he
cutting o f the grass and the other issues that I
have mentioned have nothing t o do wi th this
district . Those are village policy . Those are
vi ll age po li cy . T hey don 't h ave anything to do
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w ith the d istr ict.
dist r ict
So if you disso lve the
ASSISTA NT MAYOR ROSENFIE LD : Wait a minute .
What are we disso lvi ng?
MR. WE I SS : You are el i mi na t ing t h e ability
to co l lect mo ne y to pay for their gate.
what you are disso l ving.
That is
ASSIS TANT MAYOR ROSENFIELD : Those who want
the gat e can contribute to have the gate . That i s
how t hey do i t i n Keystone Poi n t .
t hey do it every place .
Th a t is how
MR . WE I SS: No.
ASSIS T AN T MAYOR ROSEN F I E LD : A
hundred percent at Keystone.
MR . WE I SS : No . What happ ene d was th o se
are like , all the is l an ds off of Mi a mi Beac h,
those ar e all, I beli e ve , what i s ca ll ed special
taxing dist r icts for secu r i t y purposes . I bel i eve
you need a pp roved 50 percent, a n d the y were
approve d by Dade County.
COUNCILMAN PA CKE R : Go to Dade County and
do it then .
MR. TR EPPE DA :
problem .
Pr ivate property is t he
MR. WEISS : You ha v e another issue .
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private property.
I guess they could dissolve the thing, go
to Dade County .
ASSISTAN T MAYOR ROSENFIELD: I n Keystone,
they are all private .
MR. WEISS : No , they are not .
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSENF I ELD: Oh, you mean
the streets.
MR . WEISS : Those gates , like all the
34
islands , like Sunset and all t hat, even though
there is a gate there, i f you go up to th e gate
a n d say, I want to go in, t hey can't keep you out.
COUNCILMAN JACOB I : I grew up in San Souc i
before th ey even had a gate.
MR . WEISS: The difference in Bal Ha rbou r ,
you can't get through the gate. It 's a l ittle
different situation, and I'm not sure they can do
it through the cou n ty, but the bottom line i s th ey
would be left to t he ir own devises to solve their
problem.
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSENF I ELD : Which is like
every other homeowner i n Miami Beach.
They are not go in g to be happy wi th any
decision we make. There is no question .
MR . WEISS: Who is they?
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ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSENF I ELD : The peop l e who
live in the d i strict.
COUNC I LMAN JACOBI: Yes, but what ha pp ens
is are we going to see who the true friends of
Mr . Babak are?
COUNCILMAN PACKER : It has no thin g to do
with fr i endship.
MR . WEISS: If you give us ins t ructions n ot
to, you know , not to do this, the n , until the
litiga tion is totally done this session is
con f idential .
COUNCILMAN PACKER: Correct.
MR. WEISS: It would never come up for a
public vote and we would move ahead with the
litigation.
COUNCILMAN PACKER: I t hink we should move
ahead with the l i t iga tion . I t 's on agenda for
today .
MR . WE I SS: No , i t 's no t. I put it on the
agenda. I was hoping t hat I wou l d have the
settlement document, but , obviously, we are
re thinking th ings . I will remove it .
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSENFI ELD: I would like
to have some more informa t ion if we dissolve that
district, exact l y the direct ion t hey could go.
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MR. WEISS : What would happen?
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSENF IEL D: I would really
like to know.
MR . WE I SS : We can do t hat.
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSENFIELD: And present
that to the homeowners there.
working.
Obviously, it's not
MR. WEISS : Wel l , it 's work i ng for them.
COUNCILMAN PACKER : It wi ll no t work once
this comes out . I feel th at as a pe rson , say , who
is not even invo l ved , who jus t sees th i s in the
newspaper and reads this, wou l d say, whoof, what a
payoff.
COUNC IL MAN JACOBI : Why don't we tab l e this
and get some more information. The f irs t thing I
felt, I 'm not sure which way to go either.
ASSIS T ANT MAYOR ROSENF I ELD: I ha ven 't made
my dec ision , but I do know this , all th ose liv i ng
on the other side o f the street , being on the
condomin i um board for man y, many years ago , we
h ave enough prob le ms in our ow n building getting
peop l e to agree and they do agree . We are a small
l it tle community . Each bu i lding is a smal l
communi t y and we are paying fo r a l l those services
ourselves.
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MR. POPOK : Richa r d, who g e ts specia ll y
assessed , just the members of t he dist ri ct or
everybody?
MR . WEISS :
37
MR . POPOK :
Just the peop l e i nside .
So i t's not everybody . You are
assessing, you are using the power to assess those
who are inside the d i strict.
MR . WEISS : Th e answer is it 's co ming from
the villa g e .
L et me ask a question . Would i t make a
difference to you if a ll th is money , all of i t
t he insurance company is the insurance company
if th e full $50 ,000 came from t he people within
t h at district?
ASSISTAN T MAYOR ROSENFIELD : If t hey want
to pay for it .
MR . WE I SS : We are not aski ng them .
don't need to ask them .
COUNCILMAN PACKER: What do you mea n?
MR. WEISS : 2 5 ,000 of this is coming
vi lla ge funds, and 25 is coming out of th e
d i s t rict .
We
out
CO UNC IL MA N PACKER : So t he whol e money
comes out from t h e distric t ?
of
MR . WEISS : Le t's assume you said whatever
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money is in this settlement comes f rom the
homeowne rs the r e , would people still have a
concern about this?
COUNCILMAN PACKER : I don 't follow you.
thought t hey have no money .
MR . POPOK: They have 26 ,000 .
38
I
MR. WEISS: What we do is next year when we
assess them, we would raise --what we would do,
the vil lage --the way thi s works is the vil lage
counci l totally controls those assessments every
year as part of the budgeting process.
COUNCILMAN PACKER : $910.
MR . WEI SS: Right. It 's not set. I t could
be a thousand dollars. It could be $1400. It
could be $2,000.
How would you fee l if the concern about --
what if all the money for t his settlement, a ll of
i t , the ful l $50,000 came from residents?
COUNCILMAN PAC KER : If I would be a
homeow ner, t hen I would be screaming to beat the
band .
ASS I STANT MAYOR ROS E NF IELD : That is t heir
problem .
COUNCILMAN JACOB I: You represent your side
of the street . I rep r esent my side.
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COUNCILMAN PACK ER : No, I represent t h e
whole village .
ASSIS TANT MAYOR ROSENFIE L D: We all do.
COUNCILMAN JACOB I : My side would say
MR . WEISS : Is you r building included in
the back side of the al l ey or not?
39
COUNCI LMAN JACO BI : No.
what they would say .
Let them suffer i s
ASSISTAN T MAYOR ROSENFIELD : If somebody in
my building wo uld go to Mr . Packer and say I want
you to jo i n us.
MR. WE ISS: I am concerned with the
settlement.
COUNC ILM AN JACOB I : You r question is a
great question .
MR . WE I SS : My question is, is the concern
that t he people across the street I mea n , the
cutting of the grass and stuff is another issue
and at some poin t you o r the nex t council wi ll
deal with i t .
But in terms o f this settlement, is the
concern that mone y is coming from the other
residents to pay for the se t t l ement?
COUNC I LMAN PACKER: I don 't know if it is
within our purview to approach the homeowners
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assoc iation .
MR . WEISS: I wouldn't ask them . You are
the governing body.
COUNCILMAN PACKER : I persona l ly wou l d put
t his off as f ar as the sett le ment goes right now.
What is before us right no w, I personally would
table this set t lemen t for fu rt hei d i scuss i on and
now the di scussion is o p ening u p a new avenue.
ASSISTAN T MAYOR ROS E NFIELD : Which is t o
i nv estigate the possibi l ity of the district
pay i ng .
MR . WEISS : I do n't ne ed to i nvest igate
that . I n other words, if aga i n, I 'm j us t
what I 'm t r y ing to do is I 'm tryi n g to solve a
problem if you want to . I am trying to give you
options , which is you have th e ability to say he r e
today that we are going to settle this case based
on pa y ing $50 ,000 , a ll of whi ch --
COUNCILMAN PA CKER : I t wil l be 75 .
MR. WEI SS : No, no, no . That comes from
th e insura n ce company . 25 is fr om t he insurance
company . 50 ,000 fr om the v il l a g e, and the way we
had discussed it l ast t i me , half the money would
come from th e vi llage and half being from th e
dist ri ct . T he i nsurance company does whatever
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they want to , but not one cen t of t his money comes
from t a x pay er 's mon e y. It all comes from the
resid e nts. You ha ve the ability to do that if yo u
want to .
COUNCILMAN JAC OBI: I have to thin k also as
a council person.
ASSIS TANT MAYO R ROSENFIELD: T hey would be
upset, but the poin t is technically t he su it is
against the district .
MR . WEISS: Cor r ec t . You are also the ones
t hat are go i ng to h a ve to figure out. We are
talking abo u t $25,000.
A l , you are good i n math, di vided by 200
h o me s i s what , $2,000 a home ?
MR. POPOK : No , l ess .
MR . WEISS: It 's
MR . POPOK:
MR . WEISS:
$200 a home .
$200, right. So it's like $200
a h ome. I guarantee you if I am the m in th ose
h ouses and I am l ook ing at the idea of not being
able to pay for my g ate for an extra $200 one time
shot? Mar t in, if it's 20 0 homes, if i t was $1 0 a
home , it would be 2 ,000. If i t was a hu n d r ed
dollars a h ome, i t wou l d be $20 ,000 . So i t's
about so mething a l i t tl e , slightly more than --
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let's say $300 a home.
MR . POPOK: $290.
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSENFIE LD : Martin , I
don't know if we are a ll global, but at the same
t i ~e no matter which way we go on t his , somebody
i s no t going to be happy . We are not go i ng to be
able to make everybody happy .
MR . WEISS : May I say something?
I guarantee you, that is the most accu r a te
statemen t that anybody has made t oday.
no way you are making everybody happy.
The re is
COUNC ILMAN PACKER: Wha t bothers me righ t
now is the 25 ,000 and the 25,000 . The 25 ,000
wou l d be raised for n ex t year's taxes . Where is
the firs t 25,000.
MR. WEISS:
MR . POPOK:
From the dis trict .
T here is 26,000.
COUNCILMAN PAC KER : They have 25,000
already?
MR. TREPPEDA: Actua l ly, we h a v e enoug h
fun d ba l ance in security fu n ds to pay it out.
They have a savings account.
COUNCILMAN PACKER: T h e savings account
would go down q uic kl y then .
MR. T REPPEDA: We pump i t up next year.
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COUN CILMAN JACOBI : How much is in the
account balance?
MR . TREPPEDA : Somewhe re around li ke 75 ,000
is the fund b a l ance.
COUNCILMA N PACKER: I f they wan t to come to
t h e villag e because they need 75 00 --
MR . WEISS : No , that is different. T hat is
t~e civic assoc ia tion.
COUNCILMAN PACKE R : I sn't tha t the same
people ?
MR . WE I SS : No , no, no . I t 's the same
peop le, bu t it 's a d iff erent legal entity . There
is a le gal entity called t h e civic assoc iati on.
It 's ve ry comp l ica ted.
Th ere is a lega l entit y ca lle d t he c iv i c
associa t ion an d the r e is anoth er l egal entity
called the security d i strict, basic ally . Yo u are
the governing bo d y o f the securi t y dis t ri ct. The y
ar e the governing body of t he civic associa tion .
The civ ic association c a me to the vi lla ge
and said , we need in surance , ci v ic assoc iat io n,
and we ru l ed as our of fi ce that mo ne y fr om th is
distric t ca n not be expended for t he i ns ur ance.
So i t's two di ff e rent legal entities
i n v o lve d e v en thoug h i t is t h e same peop l e .
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COUNCILMAN PACKE R: It's al l the same .
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSEN F IELD: Asking a
homeowner to pay $200 is not a big deal .
MR . WEISS : It 's not even a b i g cost. Al
has the money .
up .
They don 't even have t o cough it
44
ASS I STANT MAYOR ROSENF IELD : If the village
would walk in a nd pay, based on what we hav e to
pay in the condominiums our own assessments --
MR. WEISS: I have to tell you that , you
know , I didn 't come in with this idea , and I
wasn't --you know, the issue here is the one tha t
you have ra i sed, Jean and Mar t in and Joel,
everybody abou t the people across t he stree t .
This is a way to settle this case and nobody
don 't know --l isten , if the people from the
security d is trict --first of all , they are not
I
going to get assessed for t h i s. Al has the money
in t he bank . He i s going to use the money tha t we
over collected . Ac t ually , it 's been in an account
ca lled attorney's fees and legal --where do we
have it, Al , over the years?
If you are in t erested in r eso l ving a
prob lem and getting done with not having anybody
on the east side be upset , nobody can be ups et
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about this . All the money is coming. You get rid
of that. You jus t pay the money and that is it.
I gua r antee that Stuar t Sobe l a nd tha t
group t h at are the c i v i c association group would
be a h undred percent in favor o f that, although I
haven 't discussed this i ss u e at a ll with S tuar t
Sobel .
I f I was them, I would b e nuts for $20 0
they will spend the $200 in legal f ees to t ry t o
figure out wh a t to do .
CO UNCILMA N PA C KER : If i t's pr es ented , if
i t 's go i ng to be presented that way , and it 's kep t
in tha t bas e --
MR. WEISS: Yes .
ASS ISTANT MAYOR ROSE N FIEL D : You seem t o be
ups e t abou t something .
COUNC ILMAN P ACKER : I 'm not ups e t . I don 't
like to see t h e way it was play ing out when we
first walked i n here .
MR. WE I SS: We have turn ed the wo r l d
around . We h ave turned the world a r ound.
ASSISTANT MAYO R ROSENFIELD: Aft er we went
h ome and thou gh t about i t , we said , wai t a minute ,
what i s going on here .
COUNCILMAN PACKER : T hat i s correct .
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me ask you this now . You think you will have to
go back to anyone or this is --
MR. WEISS :
with anybody?
We don 't have to discuss it
46
COUNCILMAN PACKER :
j usti fied with anybody.
Th is doesn 't have to be
MR. WEISS: No. He doesn 't care where t he
money comes from a n d a ll you are go i ng to do is
you are go ing to d i rec t the manager instead of
taking this out of general funds , you are going to
take all the money ou t of the civic assoc i ation
account .
MR. TREPPE:DA : Security dist ri ct.
MR. WEISS : I t wil l come up before the
counci l to approve settlement agreemen t, but in
terms on discussing t his w it h him , i t 's not go in g
t o discussed because it's not part of our
settlement where th e money comes from.
COUNCILMAN PACKER:
the council pub li cly?
Will this come up to
MR . WEISS : Yes .
COUNC I LMAN PACKER: Where the money is
going to come from to settle t hi s?
memo.
MR. WEISS: Yes. T here will be a cover
There is go ing to be a settlement
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agreeme n t , which is like a lega l contract. Th ere
wi l l be a co v e r me mo that Al and us wi ll draf t
that will say this is a l awsuit invo l ving the
security di strict, blah , b l a h, blah , b l ah , blah .
Thi s wi ll be set t led . T he full amount of the
se ttlem e nt wi ll c ome out fro m fund balance i n the
security d i str ict. That is wha t we will say .
COUNC IL MAN PACKER : It st il l has not
se t t le d the ver y, very mai n, ma in i ssue o f someone
bri ngin g up
MR. WEI SS : You are absolute l y ri g ht .
COU NCI LMAN JA COBI: I 'm going to sa y
something . No w we have gone f u l l circle . Firs t
comment I said was the fl oodgates.
Now you contro l who wil l pay fo r that n ext
l awsui t . Now th a t we set a precedent t h at i t i s
go ing t o come fro m the gated community , you
contro l that floodgate .
MR . WEiss ·: Rig ht . If someone wa n ts t o
f ile suit ag ai n, they are go ing t o see --no.
I t 's going to be the same s ui t if t h ey want to ,
and by t he way , I t hi nk wh at Mi chael sai d is
ri ght . You see I 'm no t pus h ing th i s th i ng a t al l,
but most p eop le do no t want to liti gate with the
village . Most people are not k amikazes , do not
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want to destroy what makes the ir homes so
valuable. It takes a very unusual persona l ity.
Seriously , I'm ser i o u s , it does . I t takes a very
unusual personality t o do someth i ng that is not
really in h i s best in t erest , this lawsuit because
the truth is i f he wins the lawsui t , the va l ue of
his house goes down because t he r e is no security
gate. I t t akes a very unusual pe r son who has
money t o b l ow , a Norman B raman kind of a person .
MR . P O P OK : He 's a li b ertaria n .
MR . WE I SS : He 's a l i bertarian .
MR . PO POK : I'm talking about r i ght here .
MR. WE I SS : It takes a very unusua l person .
I think that the chances , we have gone a l l t his
t i me wi thout a lawsuit. I t hin k there is a , you
know , i t 's not a bad bet to say that it's going to
be awh i le before anybody cha ll enges this th i ng .
ASS I STANT MA YOR ROSENFIE L D: This is of f
th e r ecord , p lease.
l ater .
MR. WEISS : No, there is no o ff t h e record.
We w il l talk l a t er.
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSENF I E LD : We wil l talk
COUNC ILMAN JACOBI : We a l ways contro l the
reins where t h e money comes from .
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ASSISTANT MAYOR ROS ENFIELD: I mean , in
essence, he's winning, bu t in essence , he 's not
w i nning . I t's s t i l l t he securi t y d i strict is in
charge or not ?
We j ust ha ve to ge t out.
COUNC ILMA N JAC OB I: Take the mon ey now.
He 's payi ng his .
MR. WEISS : I'l l tell you something, there
is someth ing to be sa i d in terms of f utu re
law sui t s . He is ma ki ng s tat emen t s in there that
t his thing is valid . He's go i ng to pay his
assessmen t s, those ki n d of things , which are no t
49
at al l binding, bu t t hey are h e l p ful .
ge t sued again, they a r e helpful .
I f we ever
COU NCILMAN J ACOBI: Can we bi n d hi m w it h
someth i ng?
MR . WEISS: Oh , yes . He can 't sue us
again.
COUNC I LMAN JACO BI: L i k e b inding him saying
t h at i f he doesn 't pay his as sessment , we can
f o r eclose on hi m .
MR . WEISS: We alrea d y have t hat abil it y on
him .
COUNCILMAN PACKER : An d the back, even
t ho ugh he 's agre ei ng t hat i t 's lega l no w .
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MR. WEISS: He 's agreeing to pay them i n
the futur e .
COUNC I LMAN PACK ER: What abo ut the bac k ?
We ca n no t
MR. WEISS: Tha t is
COU NC I L MAN PACKER: T ha t has been
discussed?
MR . WE ISS : That h as been d is cussed . I
won 't say he's not . You can always go back to him
an d s ay this an d t hi s a nd th i s , bu t, agai n, tha t
$1 2,000 is n o t vi llag e mo ney. It 's mon e y that is
t h e securi ty d istric t mon e y . S o t o the extent
tha t th e security d i str i ct does not h a ve the
12,000 , everybody i s paying for it.
ASS I ST ANT MAYOR ROSENF I E LD: How much does
t ha t gate cost a year .
MR . WEISS: How much i s the whole b u d g et ,
A l ?
MR. T RE PPE DA : Le t me t e ll you.
MR . WEISS : T he who l e budget wi th the Ken t
Secur i ty and a l l tha t other s tu ff.
T o the extent there are o t h er peop l e t h a t
are somewhat u nhap py, we are agreeing to r ebid the
securi t y contrac t to make sure i t's ope n .
COUNCILMAN PAC KE R : Becau se he l i ves t he re .
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ASS I STANT MAYOR ROSENFIELD: He ha te s Kent
Security .
MR . WE I SS: He ha te s Kent Sec uri ty because
t hey were rude to him.
COUNCILMAN J ACOBI : Have you ever seen the
f i l m of tha t?
ASSISTA NT MAYOR ROSENFIE L D : Of what?
MR . TREPPE DA : 325,000 is t he budget.
MR. WE I SS : The who l e yea r . We are not
talk in g a lo t of money here.
ASSISTAN T MAYOR ROSENFIELD : That is just
for the ga t e.
MR . WE I SS: I t 's f or the gat e .
MR. TRE PPEDA : Gate , l andscap ing , keep ing
up the bu ilding. T hat i s it .
ASSISTAN T MAYOR ROSENF IEL D: Jus t the
landscaping on where the gate is .
51
MR . WEISS: No ot her landscaping other than
that .
ASSISTAN T MAYOR ROSENFIELD : Are the peop l e
i n t he apart men ts part of this? They have to pa y
t oo?
MR. TR EP PEDA : Yes, because they are on the
in s ide.
MR . WE I SS: Diff erent assessment. Right ,
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Al ?
MR . TREPPEDA : They pay 20 percent .
MR . WEISS : See , the n i ce thing abou t it is
that if i t does i mpact the budget , you h ave the
ability , notwithstanding wha t t hey say , t o say we
need a litt l e more money , and you can r aise that
u p a little b i t .
ASS I STANT MAYOR ROSENFI E LD: That i s not
the basic documents as it is i n a condominium .
MR. WE I SS : What is i t ?
ASSISTANT MAYO R ROSENF I EL D: How much eac h
pays .
MR. WE I SS : I t 's set by you as law and we
set it each year .
ASS I STANT MAYOR ROSENF I E L D : It de p ends on
the size of t h e apartment .
MR. WEISS : T hat is al l done by t h e vi ll age
council as part o f t he assessment process , and you
s i t once a year as an equalizat i on board and I'm
sure it passes probably very q u ic k ly .
COUNCI LM AN PACKER : It does , but I don 't
think i t will in t he future .
COUNCILMAN JACOB I : I f we gave him an
employment contract , will he get taxed?
MR . WE I SS : Where I sta rt ed from , where I
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star t ed from this, yes, it would give him . Where
I started from this was get rid of that employment
contract .
COUNC I LMAN JACOBI: I agree .
COUNC I LMAN PACKER : That i s
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSEN F IELD : Don't ge t
apop l exy .
COUNC I LM AN PACKER :
apop l exy.
I'm not go i ng to get
MR . WEISS : We sh if ted the paramete r s.
COUNC IL MAN PACKER : I ca me into this
meeting total l y, tota ll y 100 percent agains t any
sort of se tt lement .
MR. WE I SS: Al l of you d i d, I think.
I be li eve when we started to th ink abou t
where the money was coming from
COU NCI L MAN PACKER : Even where t he money
comes from , I don't know i f I wou l d be a homeowner
in t here , and one of my own compat ri ots pulled
something l i ke this , and then it 's go i ng to b e
set t led out of my $50,000 that I have set up in
there t o be used . What i s t ha t money actually
used for?
MR . T REPPEDA : I t can be used to a v oid
raising the assessment.
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MR . WEISS :
MR . POPOK :
I t 's like a co n t ingency fund .
Surplus.
COUNC I LMAN PACKER : I t 's a slush f und?
MR. WE I SS : It 's no t a slush fund . It 's a
surplus and a contingency in case someth i ng
happens a n d , let 's say , the guard gate to tal l y
n eeds to be re place d or yo u know .
COUNCILMAN PACK ER : I see.
MR . WEI SS : I t 's not a s l us h fund at a l l
b e c aus e t h e only peop l e that can spend th e money
are you .
COUNC ILMA N PACK E R: The council .
5 4
MR . WEI SS : Yes, and th at is b udge t ed every
year as par t of the budgetary p rocess .
COUNCI L MA N P ACKER : T hat money comes o nl y
from insi de the gates .
MR. WE I SS : Yes , a hundred percent .
ASS I S TA NT MAYOR ROSENFIELD : It 's not a
perfec t so l u ti o n . I don 't know wha t co u ld be ;
goi ng to l itigatio n , go i ng through th i s , wh i ch can
go o n fo r a l ong time .
CO UNCI L MA N PACKER : One ques t ion.
went th rough the lit i gation
MR . WEISS : Yes .
If we
COUNC IL MAN PACKER: --a n d we l ost --
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MR . WEISS: Ye s.
COU NCI LMAN PACKER : or if we won and t h e
atto rn eys s u e the vil l age
MR. WE I SS : Yes .
COUNCILMAN PACKER : --can the money come
back from that $50 ,000, whatever is t here.
MR . WEISS: If we lose b i g time, we are
talk ing abou t --first of all , if we lose big t ime
and they say t he dis tri ct is illegal , we have no
ability t o get any money from th em because the
only way we can get money from them i s throug h
this special assessment, and if we lose big time ,
and they say this whole thing is illegal and the
vi llag e has to pay three and a half mi l lion
dollars back, I 'm totally mak ing up t he number, we
hav e no abili ty to get back from them .
MR . POPOK: You can sett le it wit h somebody
else 's money , bu t i f you are hi t fo r damages, it 's
your money .
COUNCILMAN SANZ:
everybody .
It's vi llage money fro m
MR. WEISS : Yes, from everybody.
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSENFI ELD : This just
needs t o be thoroug h ly expla i ned to everybody .
th ink most of the people that made their
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ob j ections the l ast council meeting had no idea.
MR. WEISS : Th at is why I b ro ugh t it back
to you . I d on't know how this trickled out , but
it started and the feedback I was ge tt ing was
dealing with th i s employmen t contract , which
56
so u nded , you know, sort of contrived . That is why
we brought it back t o you.
a good discussion .
I think this has been
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROS EN F I ELD : I don 't th i nk
people understand that if we d i d lose that we
could lose big time and it would be for the entire
village . You k now , you have to make some
decis i ons here, how far you rea l ly want to go wi th
t his. I don 't think this is the bes t solution in
the world , b u t at the same t ime --
COUNCILMAN PACKER : I t's my suggestion .
Can we put this off until the ne x t meeting?
ASSIS T ANT MAYOR ROSENFIELD :
going on the agenda .
T his isn 't
MR. WEISS : I t 's no t on the agenda .
COUNCILMAN PACKER : Can we --
I wi ll te l l you this . I wil l MR. WEISS :
tel l you th i s . F irst of a l l , the answer is, yes,
bu t there could be conseque n ces too .
Re membe r, this case was basica l ly settled.
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You had given me autho ri ty t o do th e 25 and 25, t o
get wha t ever money we cou l d from the i nsurance
company .
MR. POPOK : We dra f ted the agreement.
MR. WEISS: We drafted all the agreements.
The agreements, f rankly, have been signed by their
side because that is what the instructions from
the council were .
get
we are
I jus t started to ge t --I started to
my little antennas went up, and I said, so
the thing i s if you th ink this is a good
sett l ement , we should do this sett le ment , and by
putting i t off, I th in k that there is a chance
that he wil l unravel .
MR . POPOK: I agree with tha t.
MR . WEISS : T he worm wi l l turn as you would
say .
COUNC I LMAN PACKER :
happens --
Consequen t ly, if that
MR. WEISS : Yes.
COUNC IL MAN PACK ER: if that happens, you
see who you are really doing business with. Okay,
he 's nice and ca l m now because of wha t is going
on, but --
MR. WE ISS : I have to te l l you that I know
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exactly who I am doing business wi t h .
have any --
COUNC I LMAN PAC KER: Ill usions .
I don 't
MR . WEISS: --i l lusions about t he fact
58
that he does h ave somew h at of an explosive
personality , but what I will tel l you i s that I a m
no t buying his fr i e n dship. I 'm not buy i ng h i s
l ove , and I 'm not buying his, you know, his be in g
nice . What I 'm doing i s i f you decide to do this,
wha t you are saying is that t h is doesn 't cost t he
people on the o t her side any money a t all , zero,
that it 's the abil i ty to preserve a system fo r t he
peop l e in the residen t ial area that we think
judg men tally they would be willing to pay $200 to
keep, and you are eliminat i ng t he fact that the
vil l age wou l d have any l iability from t h is
lawsuit. Tha t is the reason you are doing it .
ASS I STAN T MAYOR ROS EN F I ELD : I think we
have to come to s o me sort of decision today .
Go i ng back and discuss i ng with othe r people --
MR . WEISS : Firs t of al l, you are supposed
to .
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSE NFIELD : I think i t has
been . Ot herw i se , t here would not have b ee n --
MR. WEISS : Aga i n , I 'm not pushing this.
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didn 't even think of this idea until I was si t ting
here with two cups of coffee in me. If there 's
questions t hat you have, if there is we don 't
need to --if t here are some questions that you
have , you know, I want to try to satisfy you .
COUNCILMAN PACKER : Sometimes I canno t
t hink on the roc ket , and we have a 9 :00 o 'clock
dead l ine .
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROS E NFIELD : No .
COUNCILMAN PACKE R: I perso nal l y would put
it off until the nex t exec u tive .
MR . WEISS : The on l y thing I would say if
the ma jority of the counc il wants to put it off, I
would not put it off for a month .
off f or two or three days.
I would put it
If the council fe e ls li ke they want another
execut iv e sess i on if they do, t hen I wo ul d
announce it, I would request it at today 's
meeting . Again, this is up to you.
MR. POPOK: Do i t Friday.
MR . WEISS : Do another executive session on
F r iday if you want some time to think.
COUNCIL MA N P ACKER : I 'm going away Friday .
MR. WE I SS: The n I wou ld do it Thursday .
ASSIS T AN T MAYO R ROSENFIELD: I don't know
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what else t o do .
COUNCI L MAN SANZ : The same thing is going
t o face us in t he nex t execu t i v e session.
is going to change in between.
Noth ing
ASSISTANT MAYO R ROSENF IE LD : We have a
comprom i se or we go to l itigatio n . Th e r e's two
choices here.
COUNCI L MAN SANZ : It's one of t he two~
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSE N FIELD: It is one of
the two; going t o lit i gat ion or le t 's say get th i s
thing out of our hair and let 's not go on with
what can concei v ably be vast consequences.
Joel, what do you th i nk?
COUNC IL MAN JACO BI : I thin k we settle it
now with the understandi n g that the security
district release $25,000 from their fund .
MR. WE ISS : It al l comes from that.
CO UNC ILMAN JACOB I :
25 to t hem .
R i ght , and assess t h e
MR . WEISS : I have to tel l you j us t one
other t h ing, Marti n . For t h e people fr o m the
other side of th e stree t , I do n 't real l y see any,
I do n 't know h ow anybody on t h e other side o f the
street, anybody outside the distr i ct could have
any problem at all wi th t h i s settlement because
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not one cent of vi llage money i s go i ng to be used .
I mean , loo k on t he pos it ive side . Not one ce n t
of vil l age mon e y is go i ng to be used .
Numbe r t wo , th e potentia l l ia bi lity for
t hem is go in g t o be e l i m i na t ed because the lawsui t
is going to go away.
I mean , t h e f act t hat the liabi li ty, I
thi n k, i s somewhat remote , it is there.
COUNCILMAN SANZ: I t could happen .
MR . WEISS : And t he third thing is th at
even if we win the l awsui t , you know . So I don 't
real ly know why anybody --listen, peop l e can
a l ways f i nd
CO UNCILMAN JACO BI: The r e is more up t han
down.
MR . WEISS : I don 't think th e re i s any down
to it .
ASSIS T AN T MAY OR ROSENFIELD: You l i ve
i n s i de the dis t r i ct?
CO UNC I L MAN JACOBI : No.
A SSISTAN T MA YOR ROSENFIELD: You live
outsi d e t he dist rict .
MR . WE ISS : I don't t hi nk the r e is any
downside to it .
COUNC ILM AN PA CKER : T he only downside wou l d
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be basical l y, I would say, as someone either in or
outside the district looking at it f ace value
saying would wa n t to maybe know a ll t he de t ai l s
why, what and when , but it 's still not going to
stop someone else saying , I want to challenge it,
even from i nside t he di st r ic t .
MR. WE I SS: Th at is true, but I thi n k the
point that Joel ra is ed was tha t if peop l e see t h at
when the y challenge t his , t he mo ney i s coming from
t hem to set t l e th is t hing , you know , to some
exten t a nd, again, I really think so .
ASS ISTANT MAYOR ROSE NFIELD : Are not t he
majority of these cases settled outside?
MR . WEI SS :
settled.
The majority of all cases are
MR . POPOK : Yes, 95 percent .
MR. WEISS: That is no re aso n to settle.
Yo u have to fee l comfortab l e .
CO UNCI L MAN PACKER:
to see the main structure.
I p e rsona lly would l ike
Now, if we are just
passing the bu ck to the nex t council or future
counci l s what it is because that is what we are
doing.
ASSISTANT MAY OR ROSENFIELD :
passing the buck .
We are not
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MR. WEISS: If there was a good so l ution to
t his, real l y, I have to te l l you , i t's not me, b ut
there are some very smart peop l e i n o u r f irm and
t here 's people tha t --Dav i d Wolpin knows more
about municipal law than anybody in the sta t e ,
probab l y in the country.
T hey h ave a l so gone to outside lawyers , to
condo minium lawyers, Becker Pol i a k off , some other
people.
The problem i s there is no easy solut i on
fo r this because of t h e way i t was se t up. If
t here was an easy solution , you know , th ere are
wealthy people that would have spent t h e money to
buy the gate back and be done with it .
Honestly, I don 't think this is a matter o f
passing the buck because I don 't think the re i s
any place e l se to deal wi t h it.
ASS I STANT MAYOR ROSENFIE L D: Martin , I
think the security d i strict in and of itself is a
topic for another time . I t's definite l y a topic .
COUNC ILM AN P ACKER : There is no q ue stio n .
ASSISTAN T MAYOR ROSEN FIE L D : Right now , the
two are in ter t wined .
COUNC I LMAN PACKER : Correct .
MR . WEISS : The i ssue of the grass cutting .
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COUNCI LMAN JACOBI: It is intertwined with
public and pr i vate land .
MR . WEISS: That is a d if ferent subject ,
but if you feel l ike --
ASS I STANT MAYOR ROSENFIEL D: The point is
was th is thing set up l egally 25 years ago. It
doesn't make a difference if it was or it wasn 't
because it 's here.
COUNC I LMAN PAC KE R: Ri ght, and,
consequently, I don 't know if I 'm off base, but if
th e lawsuit went through to the end , of course,
there wou l d probab l y be appeals . Wou l d the judge
who is ruling on th i s --
MR . WEISS: By the way , i f he loses the
l awsuit , I don't think he would appeal . I think
if we win the lawsui t we are going to win. If we
lose the lawsuit, then I thin k the vi l lage would
appeal .
COUNCILMAN PACKER : The insurance company
would appeal .
MR . WE I SS: The i nsurance company would
appeal if they cont i nue d defending us .
COUNCILMAN PACKER: T he thing is, though,
would it b e in the purview of t he j udge to rule on
t he legal i t y of t his?
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MR. WEISS : Tha t is what he 's doing. That
is wh at the l awsuit is about.
COONCILMAN PACKER : That is wha t th e
lawsuit is. Wh y can 't we
65
MR. WEISS: Because the problem is --
a g ain , mayb e I am s tar ting to push you here .
problem is what happens to these peop le if the
judge rules that th is thing is il l egal? Wha t
The
happens to al l those people? The y do n 't have any
a b i lity t o pay fo r th e i r gate.
COUNCI LMAN PACKER : T ha t is their prob l em.
COUNCILMAN SANZ : But you represent them.
I t's our responsibility, too. I t 's our problem.
ASS ISTANT MAYOR ROSENFIELD : I think we are
try ing to find the best solution that would
satis f y both . Aga i n, it needs no exp l ana t ion.
j u st don 't think it needs explanation . I don't
I
thi nk the residents understand this any more than
we do.
MR . POPOK: Richard , I have to interrupt
fo r a second. I have an appearance be f ore t his
judge on a nother case, So I am going to h ave to
l eave . You wi ll let me know . I ha ve another case
b efore t h e same judge .
(T he reu po n, Mr. Popok l e f t the room .)
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ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSENFIELD: If you want to
have Howard here on Thursday so we can hear his
opinion.
COUNCILMAN PACKER: Howard lives behind the
district. Does he have to recuse himself over a
vote?
MR. WEISS: No, but I can tel l you t his. I
have not discussed t his so l ution with Howard, but
I guarantee I know how concerned Howard is about
this beca use he lives in there.
CO UNCILMAN PAC KER : Right .
MR . WEISS : I guarantee you that Howard
would not have a problem with this .
ASSIST ANT MAYOR ROSEN FIE L D : He wants this .
MR. WEISS: Wants this don e with . I kno w
how he feels about this .
ASS I STANT MAYOR ROSENFIE L D: At l east tha t
is the impression he gave l ast time.
MR . WEISS: And he was not particu la rly
happ y that I was coming back to an executive
session because we already had a vote , but he
couldn't make it . So t ha t is the way it is. I
can't imag ine tha t Howard would have any prob l em
at al l .
I can do th is. I could speak to Stuart
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Sobel. You see, the proble m w i t h anybody I speak
to ou t s i de of our circle , it voids th e
attorney/clien t privi lege
COUNCI LMAN JACOB I : Yes . Don't speak with
him .
MR. WEISS: --if we go to t rial . I can't
do it .
ASSIS TA NT MAYOR ROSENFIELD: You wanted t o
meet again on Th ursday?
MR. WEISS: I could do t his , t oo. I cou l d
r un this by Howa r d, and if Howa rd has a p r ob l em we
can have another executive session.
COUNCI L MAN PACKER: I have no problem
Thursday morn i ng or anytime Thursday up unt i l
3 :00.
CO UN CILMAN JACO BI: I say r un i t by Howa rd
just to get a feel fro m somebody who is inside .
MR. WE I SS: What i f we do this .
COUNCI L MAN JACO BI: I don 't t hink we need
an e xecuti ve sess i o n .
MR. WEISS: We say t ha t if Howard has a
obviously, Howa r d h asn't been involved. This is,
aga in , an id ea I jus t thought of. You saw when it
came up .
Howar d .
I haven 't d i scussed this at all wi th
I f How ard has a prob lem , I wil l call
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another execu t ive sess i on .
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSENFIE LD: I know it's
very diffic ul t f o r you making a decision .
CO UN C ILM AN PACKER: I had my mind made up .
MR. WEISS: Yes, he came in. The q u es t i on
i s , my quest i on is beca us e I really woul d li k e to
g e t the consensus. The questio n is whethe r yo u
we r e opposed to t h e settlement beca us e you d idn 't
real l y t hink tha t the village shou l d be paying the
mone y. The peop l e in the condos shou l d be payi ng
thi s. The question i s since th e money is coming
f r om the people t hat are purel y benefitt i ng fro m
th i s district , does th a t change the world?
CO UNC I L MAN PACKER : Basica l ly , I thought as
long as th e suit was going on, that t he underlying
cau se of the whole t h ing cou ld be c l eared up .
MR. WE ISS : If we win .
COUNCI L MAN PA CKER : Yes.
MR . WEISS: If we win , the sec u rity
district port i on would be c l eared up . The grass
cut t ing is not p art of this and would not be
clea r ed up by th is .
ASS I STAN T MAYO R ROSENFIELD:
district, real l y , i sn 't clear e d up .
want to be a p art?
The securi ty
S t il l , do we
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MR. WEISS : You still have the whole issue.
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSENFIELD : We still have
the who le issue .
MR. WEISS : You cou l d settle this case and
then tur n around next month and say , you k now
what , this is too much troub l e, every sing l e ,
whatever, we don 't want . You can do that .
ASSIS T ANT MAYOR ROSENFIELD : The security
d i strict should be d issol ved and the people who
live in the homes have to deal wi th i t .
MR . WEISS :
themselves .
Have to deal with it
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSE NFIELD : Have to deal
with it thems elves . I t 's a separate issue .
COUNC I LMAN PACKER : I can see your po i n t
there. In other words, l et 's settle this thing
h~re now, bu t, however, we, to foresta l l any
f utu re prob l ems , t h e council then will exp l ore and
have a wo r ks hop on the future of the security
distr i ct.
MR . WEISS: Which I wou l d not let you have
until the l awsuit was settled, but the prob l em
with hav ing the workshop is that in orde r if it's
for the p urposes of the public --
COUNCILMAN PACK ER: Right.
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MR . WE I SS: --I cannot have this
conversation wi t h the public, with the p ublic
there . I can 't be saying I have concerns abou t
the security district .
COUNCILMAN PACKER: No , no , no . I f we go
alon g with t he se ttl ement .
MR. WEISS : What I 'm saying is now you are
in a workshop setting. In order, you know , I
mean, you can ta l k about the problems with the
security dis t rict as opposed to the legalities of
the security distr i ct . I wou l dn't want to t alk
about the legalities becaus e then I 'm just set t ing
up the n ex t laws uit about it.
You can do that . I 'll tell you what you
are doing is --jus t so you kn ow , even if we win
the la wsuit, again , if we win the lawsu it with the
attorney 's fees from the insurance company side
could be $150,000 , easy .
COUNCI L MAN SANZ: We will hav e to pa y.
MR . WEISS : Which the v i l l age or secur it y
d i strict wou l d have to pay. So even i f we win ,
they could come back and ask us for that.
AS SISTANT MAYOR ROSENF I ELD:
they wi l l probab l y say .
That is what
MR . WE I SS: If we los e , obviously, t hen
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depending upon how drastic the loss is --
COUNCILMAN JACOB I: I think we have
progressed p re tty good today. We opened it .
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSEN FIEL D: I t h ink you
need to go back and talk to How ard and if ther e is
a r eas on t o come back , we wi ll come back aga i n.
MR . WEISS: I want to make su r e that I am
respec tf ul and I have answered the questions that
Martin has .
COUNC IL MA N PACKER : I always have
quest ions.
ASS I STANT MAYOR ROSENFIELD : T ha t i s all
right . You are just l ike my students . They ask
quest i ons . What i f I loo k at the l e f t side or the
rig ht side .
COU NCILMAN PACKE R: I wou l d l ike to look at
the ri ght side all t he time . The thing is the way
I saw t h e way this was p l aying ou t, that we could
h ave solved th i s one prob l em , the basic major
pro blem. The way it was orig inally done, I didn 't
li ke th at at all . Now , the way t he
ASSISTANT MAYO R ROSE NF IE L D: This is
without the contract. Th i s is without the c i ty,
the entire city be i ng responsible. We have
eliminated two of those factors tha t I t hink you
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had a problem with or al l of us had a problem
with. Particularly , the contract point . I think
we have eliminated virtua ll y al l discussions .
know, in city counci l s , a compromise has to be
made .
You
MR . WE ISS: My question in te rms of the
public meeting, who would really object to this?
The only person I can really see objecting to th i s
i s a pe r son in the residentia l area who says , why
are you spend in g $50,000 of my money, and I th i nk
that those people who understand the situation
wou l d come back very s t rong to that position.
COUNCILMAN PACKER : I imagine they shou l d
know . The people in the security dist r ict know
how much money is in t heir f und.
MR . TREPPEDA: I don 't th ink th ey do.
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSENF IELD : If they ask.
I t 's l ike every t hing else in government. You have
to ask questions . When you don 't ask questions ,
you don 't get answers.
How many of them actually come to counci l
mee t ings?
COUNC I LMA N PACK E R: The ques t ions wi ll
arise when they fi n d t hat next year their
assessment is going to go up.
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When there is a ri se in the assessme n t it
is for the security d i strict on ly?
MR . WEISS: O nly .
COUNCILMAN PACKER : No one else?
MR . WEISS: Only , and if the exp l ana tion
is
CO UN C I LM AN PACKER : I f th e y want to hate
h im because it 's costing them more time , t hat i s
their problem.
ASSISTAN T MAYO R ROSEN FIE LD: The poin t is
do you wa n t to pay 50 ,000 or do you wa nt to pay
1 5 0,000? They need t o understand what the
poss ible cons equenc es are .
MR. WEISS : Or do you wan t to be part of a
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hu ge verdict against the village which wil l a ff ect
them and th e condo owners? The truth is that I
r ea l l y do view that this kind of settleme n t is
put tin g t he hurt fo r the people that are getti n g
the ben e f i t and eliminat ing any poss ib l e hurt f or
a n y of the people that are outside . T hi s kind of
settlement eliminates any kind of liab i lity fo r
the people o uts ide .
ASSIS TANT MAYOR ROSENFIELD: T his i s
probab ly t he biggest issue t hat h as co me up in a
l o n g t i me t ha t migh t say t here is a divisiveness.
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We don't want divisiveness .
COUNCILMAN PACKER : I don 't want that
either.
ASSIS T AN T MAYOR ROSEN F IELD : We are one
v i llage.
COUNC I LMAN PAC KER : Correct .
ASSIS T ANT MAYO R ROSEN F IE L D: We have 5,000
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r es i dents . I f we ca n't get along , then we have a
big problem.
COUNC I LMA N PACK ER : That is correc t .
ASS IS TANT MAYOR ROS E NFIEL D: We need t o
co me up wi t h the best solut io n unde r t h e
c ir cumstances. No t hing is per f ect . You are not
go in g to come up with it .
happen .
I t's j us t not going to
COUNC IL MAN PACKER : I was just --my own
mind , I wanted the judge to ru l e, and he knows all
the legal steps , wh a t ever i t is.
ASS I STAN T MA YOR ROS E NF IEL D: T he judge 's
ruling wouldn 't mak e everybody happy ei the r.
COUNCILMAN P AC KE R : No , bu t it would be
ASSISTANT MAYOR RO SE N FIEL D: I don 't l ike
t his j u dg e . Why didn't you to go t o ano t her
j udge. Le t 's appeal t h e who le case.
f ind the p e rfect solution --
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MR . WEISS : My biggest concern about the
judge ru l ing at t h is moment i s that the i nsurance
compa n y , even if the y win this case , can come back
to u s and we are invo l ved , l i ke Michae l said, in
another lawsu i t where the i nsurance company says
we di d a great job for you , now p ay us back our
attorney's fees because you weren 't covered b y
insurance .
COUNCII;MAN SA NZ : My b i ggest concern i s if
we lose , we are going to l ose big time beca u se
it 's going to i n volve everybody in t he vil l age ;
the east , the wes t a nd the y can lose their gate .
MR . WEISS : The smalles t l o ss , in other
words , the best loss , we wil l l ose o u r abili t y to
collect money for t he gate .
l oss .
That is the best
The wo r st loss is refunding money and
a t torney 's fees .
T he best l oss is a bad loss .
COUNC I LMAN SANZ : I t's il l egal. You h ave
t o refund a l l t h ese people a ll that money .
COUNCILMAN PA CKER : I wo u ld put t h is vote
over until --
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSENFI ELD: Let him talk
to Howard .
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COUNC I LMAN PACKER : --Richar d ta lks to
Howard.
MR: WEISS : What I would like to do becaus e
these thi n gs are difficul t t o sched u l e and a l l of
that. Are the fo ur of you comfortable with th e
sett l ement provided t ha t I speak with Howard and
h e doesn 't have a problem with it?
COUNCILMAN SANZ : I am .
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSENFIELD: I am.
COUNCILMAN JACOBI : I am .
ASSISTAN T MA YOR ROSE NFIELD : I j ust want
this thing over .
COUNC ILM AN SANZ : I think it can turn ou t
to be real l y ugly. I prefer t o cut my l osses now
and get it over and done w i th . I f Howard l ives on
that side of the s treet , i n the resident ial side
and he agrees with the thing , I think it's the
bes t solution we h ave since we ha v e bee n ta l k ing
about it .
MR . WE I SS : E li min ate t he emp l oyment
agreemen t, elimina t e any funds coming from t he
genera l funds . A ll funds to be fr om the security
dis tri ct, and i f need be and Al wi l l tell us next
year at budget time, and if need b e perhaps --it
may be becaus e t h e r e i s such a big surplus tha t
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even with this there won 't need to be a raise .
Right , A l ?
MR. T REPP E DA : It 's possible .
MR . WEISS : It's possible, and also we will
clean up some othe r things . We wi ll reb i d t he
Kent Secur i ty contract.
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSENFIE L D : I t hink that
i s part of th e prob l e m, the main part.
MR . WEISS : That is part of this reb i dding
we are agree i ng .
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSENF IE LD : Is that okay,
Mr . P acker?
COUNCILMAN PACKER : Don 't let e v e r ythi n g
depend on me .
b e unan i mous .
If you guys --i t doesn 't have to
MR . WEISS : I think i t 's ve r y nice that
peop l e are try i ng to do thi n gs by consensus . It
doesn 't need to be . I t's just n i ce r .
CO UNCILMA N PACKER : Can I hear what
MR . WE I SS : Howard has to say?
COUNC I LMAN PAC KE R: Well, you are not going
to have another meeti n g , obvio u s l y .
ASS I S T ANT MAYOR ROSEN F IELD : What is your
reservation? I 'm st il l --
COU NCILMAN PACKER: My reservation was that
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my mind was made up be fore .
ASSIS T AN T MAYOR ROSENFIELD: I know .
COUNCILMAN PAC KE R: Thinking about where
the money was coming from for the settlement , as
far as I was concerned, I was against any sort of
sett lement .
Now , I am li s tening to our attorney , and
our attorney says to set tl e ; am I correct?
MR . WE I SS : I f this was me?
COUNCILMAN PACKER : Yes.
MR . WEISS : First of all , I t h ink this is a
very good settlement .
is --
I thin k what I would do
COUNCILMAN PACK ER : I don 't l ike to
interrupt yo u.
MR . WEISS: Go ahead .
CO UNCILMAN PACKER: Time is getting short .
If i t 's your op i nion that t his be settled and that
we go along with the settlemen t provided it's no t
cos ti ng the vi l lage anything, wi l l we know bottom
line what the settlement is go ing t o cost them?
Is it $50,000 plus --
MR . WEISS: T hat is what it is .
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSEN FIELD : I t is 50 .
COUNCI L MAN PACKER : P l us wha t ever is coming
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fr om the insurance company.
MR . WEISS : Yes.
COUNCI L MAN PACK ER: Plus what he was
forgiven on his past assessments.
MR . WEISS: Yes.
COUNC ILM AN PACKER: How much was the
insurance company?
MR . WEI SS : Twenty-five .
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSEN FIELD: The number is
go i ng to be he wi l l ge t 75,000. There is no
question abo u t it . Does he deserve 75,000?
COUNC I LM AN PACKER : No is my answer .
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSENFIELD : Probably not .
Probab l y not, bu t then you we ig h the 75 ,000
against what it cou l d conceivably cost us.
MR . WEISS: Not even the cost . I t hi nk ,
again, the mo st l ikely r esult of a loss , t he most
l ikely resul t, the best is that we are not going
to be able to collect the money to pay for the
ga t e.
COU NC I LMAN PACK ER: T ha t is t heir problem .
ASSISTANT MAYO R ROSENFIELD : T h at is why
it 's another i ssue.
MR . WEISS: The next l ikely result is tha t
we would l ose and we have to pay the attorney's
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f ees back, wh ich could be 100 or $150 ,000 , and the
devasta ti ng loss is where the j udge orders us
to --but I think the mos t like ly loss scenario is
tha t they , you know, they just eliminate t he
ab ili ty to do this, and I think it 's somewhat
likely or a little less that, you know, we have to
pay back . It wasn 't covered by insurance , so they
have to pay back there .
COUNCILMAN PACKER: Are we vo ting or th is
is going to be a consensus?
MR. WEISS: We are trying to do a
consensus. I see three people . You don 't vote
here .
ASSISTANT MA YOR ROSENF I ELD: We don 't vo te ,
but that appears to be --the best consensus is
th e term consensus is I am not going to ob j ec t. I
may not like everything about what we are agreeing
to do , bu t I wi ll not voice an objection .
l east that is how we find .
MR . WE I SS : When it comes be f ore the
At
council, you guys should be together on this if
you can .
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSEN F IELD: Are you
wil l ing to do tha t?
Jus t think about yourself , no t what
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somebody else mig h t say.
COUNCILMAN PACKER: I know how I th ink .
When it comes --I wi l l t ell you what. I will go
a l ong now wi th this going befo re t h e council .
When it comes to a council vote and yo u wi l l need
a vo ic e vote on t he co unc i l , I wi l l make an
absolu tely de t ermined decision at t hat t i me.
ASSIS TANT MAYOR ROS ENFIE LD: Tha t is yo ur
righ t .
MR. WEISS : Your right to do.
ASSISTAN T MAYOR ROSENF I ELD : Are we
finished?
MR. WEISS: You have to read the rest of
t h e speech.
COUNCILMAN JACOBI: Let hi m do what he has
to do . Tha t is why we have five people .
ASSISTANT MAYOR ROSEN FIEL D: At t his time,
I wi l l now re open th e pu bli c mee t ing. Th e
attorney/client session ha s now b een t ermin at ed
a nd members o f th e gene ral public ar e now invited
to return for any further p ro ceedings.
(The r eupon, the p ro ce ed i ngs wer e concluded
at 9 :22 a .m .)
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C E R T I F I C A T E
I , Mary G. Stephenson, FPR , S t ate of F lorida at
6 Large , ce rti fy that I was authorized to and did
7 stenographica ll y repo rt the foregoing proceedings and
8 that the transcript is a true and complete record of my
9 stenographic notes .
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Dated this 14th day of May, 200 8 .
FPR
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