HomeMy Public PortalAbout2022_tcmin0712 COUNCIL MEETING July 12, 2022
Council Chamber, 25 West Market Street, Leesburg, Virginia, 7:00 p.m. Mayor Kelly Burk
presiding.
Council Members Present: Ara Bagdasarian, Zach Cummings, Suzanne Fox, Kari Nacy,
Neil Steinberg, and Mayor Kelly Burk.
Council Members Absent: Vice Mayor Martinez.
Staff Present: Town Manager Kaj Dentler, Town Attorney Christopher Spera, Deputy
Town Manager Keith Markel, Director of Planning and Zoning James David, Deputy
Town Attorney Christine Newton, Land Acquisition Manager Keith Wilson, Parks and
Recreation Events and Community Outreach Manager Linda Fountain, Parks and
Recreation Events Coordinator Lesley Green and Clerk of Council Eileen Boeing.
AGENDA ITEMS
1. CALL TO ORDER
2. INVOCATION was given by Council Member Bagdasarian.
3. SALUTE TO THE FLAG was led by Council Member Steinberg.
4. ROLL CALL
5. MINUTES
a. Work Session Minutes of June 27, 2022
Council Member Bagdasarian and Council Member Nacy were absent at the
June 27, 2022, Work Session and abstained from the vote.
MOTION2022-130
On a motion by Council Member Steinberg, seconded by Council Member Fox, the
minutes of the Work Session of June 27, 2022, were moved for approval.
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Cummings, Fox, Steinberg and Mayor Burk
Nay: None
Vote: 4-0-1-2(Vice Mayor Martinez absent, Bagdasarian and Nacy abstain)
b. Regular Session Minutes of June 28, 2022
Council Member Bagdasarian was absent at the June 28, 2022, Council
Meeting and abstained from the vote.
MOTION2022-131
On a motion by Council Member Fox, seconded by Council Member Nacy, the minutes
of the Regular Session of June 28, 2022, were moved for approval.
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COUNCIL MEETING July 12, 2022
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Cummings, Fox, Nacy, Steinberg and Mayor Burk
Nay: None
Vote: 5-0-1-1 (Vice Mayor Martinez absent, Bagdasarian abstain)
6. ADOPTING THE MEETING AGENDA
MOTION2022-132
On a motion by Council Member Steinberg, seconded by Council Member Bagdasarian, the
meeting agenda was moved for approval.
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Bagdasarian, Cummings, Fox, Nacy, Steinberg and Mayor Burk
Nay: None
Vote: 6-0-1(Vice Mayor Martinez absent)
7. CERTIFICATES OF RECOGNITION
a. None.
8. PRESENTATION OF PROCLAMATIONS
a. Recognition of Local Foster Parents Ashley and Richard Harper
Mayor Burk read and presented the proclamation recognizing Leesburg
residents Mr. and Mrs. Richard and Ashley Harper for being named Loudoun
County Foster Parents of the Year. Mr. Harper made a few remarks.
b. Oppression in China
MOTION2022-133
On a motion by Council Member Steinberg, seconded by Council Member Fox, the
following was proposed:
I move to approve the Proclamation Condemning Oppression in China to be proclaimed
at the July 12, 2022, Council Meeting.
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Bagdasarian, Cummings, Fox, Nacy, Steinberg and Mayor Burk
Nay: None
Vote: 6-0-1 (Vice Martinez absent)
Mayor Burk read and presented the proclamation regarding Oppression in
China to Ms. Tiny Tang, Ms. Jisan Pae and Ms. Wang Chunyan. Ms. Tang made a
few remarks.
111 9. PRESENTATIONS
a. Independence Day Parade Patriot Cup Winners —Primal Axe (Pete and
Rachel Pao)
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COUNCIL MEETING July 12, 2022
Mayor Burk presented Mr. and Mrs. Pete and Rachel Pao of Primal Axe with
a certificate for being the Patriot Day Cup winners in the 2022 Independence Day
Parade. Mr. Pao made a few remarks.
10. REGIONAL COMMISSION REPORTS
a. None.
11. PETITIONERS
The Petitioner's Section was opened at 7:16 p.m.
Ron Campbell, Fort Macleod Terrace. Spoke to Council regarding his
concerns with the process for approving the Black History Mural. Mr. Campbell also
commented on the removal of the three COPA members in the process. Mr.
Campbell asked Council to reconsider the votes on both topics.
Teresa Minchew, W. Market Street. Spoke to Council regarding her concerns
with the Black History Mural in the historic downtown.
Sharon Virts, N. King Street. Spoke to Council as a representative of the
Loudoun Museum and as a resident regarding her concerns with the Black History
Mural on the side of the Museum building and the removal of the three COPA
members in the process. Ms. Virts asked Council to consider other alternatives to the
mural and reconsider their position on removing the COPA members.
The Petitioner's Section was closed at 7:24 p.m.
12. APPROVAL OF THE CONSENT AGENDA
Council Member Fox requested item 12.d. —Appointment of Kirsten Ponticelli to the
Commission on Public Art, item 12.e. —Appointment of Deborah Morbeto to the Commission on
Public Art and item 12.f. —Appointment of Huyen MacMichael to the Commission on Public Art
be removed for discussion. Prior to the vote Town Manager Kaj Dentler clarified the costs
associated with item 12.a. —Police Station Expansion Project—Construction Management and
Inspection Services.
MOTION2022-134
On a motion by Council Member Steinberg, seconded by Council Member Nacy, the following
Consent Agenda was proposed with item 12.d. -Appointment of Kirsten Ponticelli to the Commission
on Public, item 12.e. —Appointment of Deborah Morbeto to the Commission on Public Art and item
12.f—Appointment of Huyen MacMichael to the Commission on Public Art removed:
a. Police Station Expansion Project—Construction Management and Inspection Services
RESOLUTION2022-081
Authorize a Construction Management and Inspections Services Task Order to
Rummel, Klepper&Kahl, LLPfor the Police Station Expansion Project in the
Amount of$751,146.44
3IPage
COUNCIL MEETING July 12, 2022
b. Vacation of Existing Sanitary Sewer and Waterline Easements-Crosstrail Boulevard
and Kincaid Boulevard
RESOLUTION2022-082
Authorizing the Vacation of Portions of Sanitary Sewer and Waterline Easements
Located within Crosstrail Boulevard and Kincaid Boulevard
c. Time Capsule for Douglass High School
RESOLUTION2022-083
Authorizing Participation in the Douglass High School Commemorative Time Capsule
The Consent Agenda was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Bagdasarian, Cummings, Fox, Nacy, Steinberg and Mayor Burk
Nay: None
Vote: 6-0-1(Vice Mayor Martinez absent)
f. Appointment to the Commission on Public Art—Kirsten Ponticelli
g. Appointment to the Commission on Public Art—Deborah Morbeto
h. Appointment to the Commission on Public Art—Huyen MacMichael
Council Member Fox questioned whether the appointments for the three new
COPA members should wait until all issues surrounding the Black History Mural
were resolved.
MOTION2022-135
On a motion by Council Member Steinberg, seconded by Council Member Cummings,
the following was proposed:
RESOLUTION2022-084
Appointing Kirsten Ponticelli to the Commission on Public Art
RESOLUTION2022-085
Appointing Deborah Morbeto to the Commission on Public Art
RESOLUTION2022-086
Appointing Huyen MacMichael to the Commission on Public Art
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Bagdasarian, Cummings, Steinberg and Mayor Burk
Nay: Fox and Nacy
Vote: 4-2-1 (Vice Mayor Martinez absent)
13. RESOLUTIONS /ORDINANCES / MOTIONS
a. None.
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COUNCIL MEETING July 12, 2022
14. PUBLIC HEARINGS
a. TLOA-2021-0011 Limited Sign Amendments
The Public Hearing was opened at 7:28 p.m.
Deputy Planning and Zoning Director Brian Boucher gave Council an overview of
the proposed amendments to various sections of Zoning Ordinance, Article 15 to:
■ Permit signage on the slope of an awning
■ Establish an additional sign called a secondary wall sign for certain
business
■ Permit curbside pick-up signs with corporate information
Council and staff discussed the proposed amendments.
Public Speakers:
There were no speakers wishing to address the public hearing.
The public hearing was closed at 7:44 p.m.
MOTION
On a motion by Council Member Fox, seconded by Council Member Steinberg, the following
was proposed:
I move to approve Zoning Ordinance Amendment TLOA-2021-0011 revising various sections
of TLZO Article 15 Sign Regulations based on the findings that the amendments further the
objectives of the Town Plan and that the proposal would serve the public necessity, convenience,
general welfare and good zoning practice.
ORDINANCE 2022-0-020
Amending Leesburg Zoning Ordinance Article 15 Sign Regulations for the Purpose of Revising
Awning, Curbside and Secondary Wall Signs
Council and staff discussed the proposed amendments. Council Member Cummings
requested a friendly amendment to the motion to remove the amendment for secondary
signage; however, the amendment was not accepted by Council Member Steinberg. Council
and staff discussed the amendments to the secondary wall signs. Council Member Nacy
requested a friendly amendment to the motion for secondary wall signs to remove the last
sentence of Secondary Wall Signs, TLZO Sec. 15.8.3.D(3) that states, "The sign must be
centered above the rear doorway or near to the side if impeded by windows, lights or other
obstructions." The amendment was accepted by Council Member Fox and Council Member
Steinberg. The amended motion is as follows.
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COUNCIL MEETING July 12, 2022
MOTION2022-136
On a motion by Council Member Fox, seconded by Council Member Steinberg, the following
was prop osed.•
I move to approve Zoning Ordinance Amendment TLOA-2021-0011 revising various sections
of TLZO Article 15 Sign Regulations with the removal of the last sentence of proposed
amendment Sec. 15.8.3.D(3)that states, "The sign must be centered above the rear doorway or
near to the side if impeded by windows, lights or other obstructions,"based on the findings that
the amendments further the objectives of the Town Plan and that the proposal would serve the
public necessity, convenience,general welfare and good zoning practice
ORDINANCE 2022-0-020
Amending Leesburg Zoning Ordinance Article 15 Sign Regulations for the Purpose of Revising
Awning, Curbside and Secondary Wall Signs
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Bagdasarian, Fox, Nacy, Steinberg and Mayor Burk
Nay: Cummings
Vote: 5-1-1 (Vice Mayor Martinez absent)
During the discussion, Council and staff discussed whether to amend the Zoning
Ordinance to allow signage on the slope of an awning. The majority of Council did not
support the specific amendment and agreed with the Planning Commission and staff
recommendation to deny the amendment. The stated motion above did not clearly
communicate Council's intent to deny this particular amendment; therefore, Staff will
include a motion on the July 26, 2022, Council meeting agenda for Council to confirm their
desire to deny signage on the slope of an awning.
15. UNFINISHED BUSINESS
a. None.
16. NEW BUSINESS
a. None.
17. COUNCIL DISCLOSURES AND COMMENTS / ADDITIONS TO FUTURE
MEETINGS
Council Member Fox requested a suspension of the rules to request a letter be sent to
Congresswoman Wexton requesting that she meet with the three representatives, Ms. Tiny
Tang, Ms. Jisan Pae and Ms. Wang Chunyan to allow them to share information and
awareness on the oppression in China. There was no objection to suspending the rules.
MOTION2022-137
On a motion by Council Member Fox, seconded by Council Member Nacy, the following was
proposed.
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COUNCIL MEETING July 12, 2022
I move to have the Town Council send a letter to Congressman Wexton's office asking her to
meet with Ms. Tiny Tang,Ms. Jisan Pae and Ms. Wang Chunyan to allow them to share
information and awareness on the oppression in China.
The motion was approved by the following vote:
Aye: Bagdasarian, Cummings, Fox, Nacy, Steinberg and Mayor Burk
Nay: None
Vote: 6-0-1 (Vice Mayor Martinez absent)
Council Member Fox requested a future Work Session on what the Town can do to
support their cause and evaluate if there are any other economic impacts the Town can take
to bring attention to their cause.
It was the consensus of Council to add this to a future Work Session for discussion.
18. MAYOR DISCLOSURES AND COMMENTS /ADDITIONS TO FUTURE
MEETINGS
Mayor Burk thanked Mr. Asa Rusk for giving her and Visit Loudoun CEO Beth
Erickson a tour of the new golf cart routes. Mayor Burk thanked the Town Staff for another
fabulous Fourth of July parade and fireworks show. Mayor Burk thanked Ms. Amy
Bobcheck and her daughter Julia for giving her and Council Members Steinberg and
Cummings a fantastic tour of the Town's public art. Mayor Burk welcomed Rebellion
restaurant and bar to Leesburg. Mayor Burk welcomed Treks Bike to the Village at
Leesburg. Mayor Burk stated she was disappointed by some of the individuals that have
been fighting the Black History Mural and shared her comments on the subject. Mayor
Burk thanked all of the businesses that welcomed her to their establishments to host a Meet
the Mayor event.
19. TOWN MANAGER COMMENTS
a. None.
20. CLOSED SESSION
b. None.
21. ADJOURNMENT
On a motion by Council Member Bagdasari an, seconded by Council Member Fox, the meeting was
adjourned at 8:04 p.m.
Ke Bur ayor
Town of Leesburg
ATTEST:
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Clerkshe"s'
of Council
2022_tanin0712
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July 12,2022—Town Council Meeting
(Note: This is a transcript prepared by a Town contractor based on the video of the meeting. It
may not be entirely accurate. For greater accuracy,we encourage you to review the video of the
meeting that is on the Town's Web site—www.Ieesburgva.gov or refer to the approved Council
meeting minutes. Council meeting videos are retained for three calendar years after a meeting
per Library of Virginia Records Retention guidelines.)
Mayor Kelly Burk: Good evening, everyone. I would like to call to order the Town Council meeting of
July 12th, 2022. If anyone in the room needs hearing assistance, please see the Clerk. Tonight, the
invocation will be given by Council Member Bagdasarian followed by the Pledge of Allegiance being
led by Council Member Steinberg. Council Member Bagdasarian?
Council Member Ara Bagdasarian: Yes. Thank you. Heavenly Father, we are thankful to gather this
evening to discuss matters of importance to our community. We ask for clarity in our judgment and
decision-making. We ask for civility and empathy in our deliberation. Let's work together to
constructively build a better Leesburg for our citizens today and for the future. We ask all of this in your
name.Amen.
Mayor Burk: Thank you. Mr. Steinberg?
Council Member Neil Steinberg: [Pledge of Allegiance].
Mayor Burk: All right, let the record show that all Members of Council are present, with the exception
of Council Member Martinez, who will not be here tonight and nobody is going to be doing it remotely.
That takes us to the minutes. I have one Work Session minutes of June 27th,2022. Do I have a motion?
So moved by Council Member Steinberg.Second?Seconded by Council Member Fox.Council Member
Bagdasarian and Council Member Nacy were absent, so you will abstain.All in favor indicate by saying,
"Aye."
Members:Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed?
[silence]
Mayor Burk: That passes 4-0, 1-2. Next one is the regular session minutes of June 28th. Council
Member Bagdasarian was absent for that one. Do I have a motion?So moved by Council Member Fox.
Second?
Council Member Kari Nacy: Second.
Mayor Burk: Seconded by Council Member Nacy.All in favor indicate by saying, "Aye."
Council Members:Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed?
[silence]
Mayor Burk: Abstained. Okay, all right, so that's 5-0, 1-1. Adopting the meeting agenda, do I have a
motion? So moved by Council Member Steinberg. Second?
Council Member Bagdasarian: Second.
Mayor Burk: Seconded by Council Member Bagdasarian. Is there anything anybody wants added or
deleted?
[silence]
Page 1 I July 12, 2022
Mayor Burk:All right, all in favor please say, "Aye."
•
Members:Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed? That is 6-0, 1. We have no certificates, but we do have a couple of
proclamations for tonight. The first one is for the local recognizing of the foster parents Ashley and
Richard Harper. I will read this at this point. This is a proclamation for the recognition of foster parents
Ashley and Richard Harper. Whereas foster care is essential as it provides a secure environment for
the child who is separated from parents or relatives. Whereas separation from parents and relatives is
something necessary to avoid continued abuse, neglect, abandonment, or instances of endangering a
child's well-being. Whereas the foster parent provides a safe haven for children that are scared and
angry and confused.
Whereas a child in foster care ranges in age from birth to 21 years. Whereas, foster parents provide a
safe haven for children in crisis by helping them develop a sense of belonging in the foster home.
Whereas,foster parents welcome into their homes children of all ethnicities, religions,gender identities,
and cultures. Whereas, foster parents are dedicated community members who many times place the
foster child's needs ahead of their own. Therefore, proclaimed that the Mayor and the Council of the
Town of Leesburg in Virginia recognize Ashley and Richard Harper for their love, dedication, and
exceptional commitment as foster parents and for helping 13 children in our community over the past 7
years. Proclaimed this 12th day of July 2022.
We will go down and present that. The next one is a proclamation that I need a motion for, and this is
for a proclamation Condemning Oppression in China. This is whereas Falun Gong, a spiritual practice
involving meditative exercises centered on the virtues of truthfulness, compassion and tolerance
became immensely popular in the People's Republic of China during the 1990s. Whereas the Chinese
Communist Party began prosecuting practitioners of Falun Gong in 1999 by detaining them in labor
camps, detention centers, and prisons where they tortured and abuse was routine.
Whereas, Falun Gong prisoners are reported to receive the longest sentences and the worst treatment,
including mental and physical torture, and are subjected to the unethical practice of non-consenting
organ harvesting. Whereas voluntary and informed consent is the precondition for ethical organ
donations in international media organizations state that prisoners are deprived of their freedom are not
in a position to give consent, and that the practice of sourcing organs from prisoners is a violation of
ethical guidelines in medicine.
Whereas the Town of Leesburg's proximity to Dulles International Airport, which provides international
flights to and from China presents a real opportunity for the unethical practice that occurs in this area
and whereas the Virginia House of Delegates, along with 27 counties, cities, and towns in Virginia have
passed resolutions or issued proclamations condemning the persecution of Falun Gong in the practice
of state sanctioned organ harvesting from the practitioners of Falun Gong and other prisoners of
conscience in China.
Whereas Leesburg residents should be fully informed of the organ source before they make the decision
to engage in the organ transplant tourism in China and that the Leesburg Town Council desires to assist
in raising that awareness. Therefore, proclaimed the Mayor and the Council of the Town of Leesburg
condemn the Chinese government's regime of persecution of the Falun Gong and of harvesting organs
from prisoners of conscience in China. Proclaimed this 21 st day of July 2022. Do I have a motion?
Council Member Steinberg: Madam Mayor, I'd like to make a motion, please.
Mayor Burk: Okay, motion by Council Member Steinberg, seconded by Council Member Fox. All in
favor indicate by saying, "Aye."
Members:Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed? That passes 6-0-1. All right, we are going to give these two proclamations.
Council Member Fox, would you like to join me for the foster parent's proclamation? All right, Ashley
and Richard Harper. Hello, how are you all today?
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Thank you very much for coming and joining us.[laughs]It is truly wonderful that we're here to recognize
you.Your selfless dedication to children is just truly inspiring and we really appreciate what you're doing
and that you're continuing to do it and the difference you've made in so many children's lives. I'm going
to ask Council Member Fox if she'd like to say a few words and then I was going to ask if you would like
to say a few words.
Council Member Suzanne Fox: Well, it is actually my privilege and honor to be able to convey the
Council's profound appreciation for what you do in our community.We are exceptionally happy to have
folks in our community who care as much as you do, and who give of yourself. I've known you guys for
a while and I know how long you've been doing this and how committed you are to helping those who
are in need. Thank you from all of us. We appreciate and respect you. Thank you so much.
Mayor Burk:Would you like to say a few words? [laughs]
Richard Harper: We've been doing this for about seven, almost eight years. It's been a roller coaster
ride but I always say we get more out of it probably than the kids do. We get to experience lots of
different situations, we get to meet so many different people, and seeing the strength of those that we
get to meet is just giving me hope in humanity.We really truly benefit from this.
Mayor Burk: Thank you very much and really,we appreciate it. Thank you.
[applause]
All right, ladies,Tiny, I'd like you to come on up. Now,you came to us the other day to explain this whole
situation and what was happening over in China in regard to the organ transplants.We truly appreciate
the fact that you brought it to our attention. We noticed that Loudoun County has also done a
proclamation as has the State and many other localities. We hope we're not the last but we most
certainly want to make sure that we're helping to educate the public. Would you like to say a few words
about what this issue is all about?
Tiny Tang:Yes. Because language problem. Please. Thank you, Mayor.Thank you, Council Member.
Please accept my deepest gratitude for approving the proclamation that condemns the brutal
persecution of Falun Gong by the Chinese communist regime and the inhuman practice of harvesting
organs from prisoners of conscience in China.
Your action is particularly meaningful because next week, July 20, we are marked 23 years since the
Chinese Communist Party began the wicked campaign of surveillance, harassment, arrest,
imprisonment,torture, and executing of Falun Gong practitioners whose only wish is to practice the faith
of truthfulness, compassion, and tolerance. We believe that your courage will bring blessings to you
and the residents of Leesburg. May peace and prosperity be the fruit of your compassion. Thank you
for your kind of support of human rights and religious liberty.Thank you very much.
Mayor Burk: Thank you all very much. Absolutely, thank you, but I do want to make sure everybody
understands one of the issues that you want to bring forward is the fact that people from here go to
China because they can get organ transplants much quicker over there.A lot of times those organs are
from prisoners who have not given consent. Some of them have passed away.
Tiny Tang: Yes. According to Chinese culture, not because of surface. Chinese people don't want to
donate to the organ because we believe even people die should keep their body complete. That's why
before Chinese people, very few organ transplants. Since the persecution of Falun Gong happened 23
years ago, suddenly increased. My investigation is from mostly different Falun Gong practitioners, but
American people then didn't realize. Because in America you need to wait a few years for vital organs,
but in China only a few weeks, even a few days, even can make a schedule for your organ transplant.
That's very serious. We even know many American people went there. Yes, so we hope to raise
awareness about it.Thank you so much.
Mayor Burk: Thank you, and we appreciate you coming and informing us. Good luck.
[applause]
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Thank you very much. I got to go get it. Now we're going to do the presentation for the Independence
Day Parade Patriot Cup winner. That's a Primal Axe, right? I saw them earlier. There they are. I need
you to come up. This is your recognition that you are a Patriot winner that your float at the parade was
the best. It wasn't just one of the best. It was the best. Your name is engraved here, and we will put it
in the window back over there so that people that come up here can see who was the last winner of the
Patriot Cup. It was most certainly very unique. Would you tell us what it was about?
Pete Pao: Sure. Our trailer, our new business,which is a mobile axe business called Primal Axe,we're
based here in Loudoun County. We want to do a lot of stuff with the community. Getting this really
means a lot to us because we live here, we work here, we do business here. Our friends are here, our
family, our kids go to school here, so having this from Leesburg and community means a lot.
Mayor Burk: Great, having you participate meant a lot to all of us. On behalf of the Council, we want
to say thank you very much, and we're looking forward to next year. I'm sure it'll be even more wild.
Pete Pao: Oh, yes.
Mayor Burk: [laughs] Okay,thank you. [laughs]
[applause]
All right, regional reports, anybody have any regional report at this time? All right, petitioners. The
petitioner section, one of the first orders of business is to hear from the public.All members of the public
are welcome to address the Council on any item, matter or issue. Please identify yourself and if
comfortable doing so, give your address for the taped record. Any public speaker will be requested to
state their name and spell it for the purpose of closed captioning. In the interest of fairness,we also ask
that you observe the three-minute time limit.
The green light on the timer will turn yellow when you have one minute remaining. At that time, we
would appreciate your summing up and yielding the floor when the bell indicates your time is expired.
Under the rules of orders adopted by this Council,the time limit applies to all.The first person we have
to speak tonight is Ron Campbell followed by Teresa Minchew.
[silence]
Ron Campbell: Good evening. Ron Campbell, R-O-N C-A-M-P-B-E-L-L.
Mayor Burk: Thank you.
Ron Campbell: 812 Fort Macleod Ter NE, Leesburg, Virginia. I would also like to start by requesting
five minutes as I'm speaking on behalf of a group or organization and I believe that is.
Mayor Burk: That does not apply to the petitioner section. I'm sorry.
Ron Campbell:Okay,good. I have tonight many people watching[unintelligible].org petition basically
protesting the actions of this Council on June 28t1. Now petition spoke to objections to the approval
process for the mural, as well as the mural itself, as well as being placed on the historic building, as
well as the removal of three commissioners. I think that has been well stated and we've decided not to
be silent and to take our protests far and wide.
We do have national and I dare say international attention this evening. I also wrote a letter of complaint
to the Town Attorney who also acts as your parliamentarian about what I thought were violations of the
ethics conduct and decorum policy, and three things in particular that this Council did not act in the
public interest by having a no process for this unsolicited proposal did a disservice to this community
which has been well documented and agreed to by members of this Council.
If you're supposed to act in the best good interest of the public,that no process did not deliver that.The
second I believe is your conduct of members. I believe during the process to remove three members
that you insulted and embarrassed in particular Vice Mayor Martinez in acting out of order manner
actually asked for a member of the public to speak and as a matter of decorum on the dais, we do not
Page 4 I July 12, 2022
engage in individual conversations with members, but call out one member in particular also did not
afford due process to the other two.
They all should have been given the same opportunity.Then the final is a conflict of interest and,Council
Member Cummings, you did not disclose the position of your wife as chair, as well as to consider that
you might have recused yourself from voting. To that, I ask for the actions that the vote, the action of
this Council on June 28th to approve this mural as well as to oust the three members from the
commission be rescinded that that vote is null and void.
The second and the most important, I think as we move forward as a community wanting to celebrate
and certainly recognize African American history is to start again. Start a new process. I heard you talk
about a process last night, but let's get a process in place that actually involves the community as we
move forward. Hopefully, you will consider rescinding that vote.
Mayor Burk: Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Ms. Minchew.
[silence]
Teresa Minchew: Hello, everyone. Teresa Minchew, 330 West Market Street, Leesburg.You all know
I don't like to see you from this side of the dais. I'm much more comfortable on participating in the boards
and commissions you've appointed me to over the years from your side. I'll be brief. I'm here about the
mural. I am not here as a member of the Board of Architectural Review or any other board of
commission. I'm here as a citizen. I just want to urge you to reconsider your vote and to take the
opportunity to do it because I think you all mean well and can do better. I think the process was opaque
and confused at the very least. I think that major stakeholders are upset and feel unheard.
The museum,the Black History Committee. I'm not speaking about the location. I'm not speaking about
any concerns I might have about where it is. I just think you have an opportunity to revisit it and to apply
the standards that you apply to every other piece of art that we accept into the Town and I appreciate
your consideration.Thank you.
Mayor Burk: Thank you, Ms. Minchew. Is there anybody in the audience that would speak that didn't
sign up? Ms. Virts?That's fine. Please come to the podium.
Sharon Virts: I'm Sharon Virts, V as in Victor-l-R-T-S, 210 North King Street. At first I'd like to make a
statement on the behalf of the Loudon Museum,then I'd like to make a statement on myself individually.
Loudoun Museum has been consistent in our opposition to any mural painted on the museum's building.
An historic structure made from old brick molded by enslaved hands.At the same time,we understand
and support the need to celebrate Loudoun's rich Black history. To this end, we've suggested and
offered support for numerous options highlighting these achievements, including support for digital and
other non-permanent murals.
With the Council's vote to approve a Black History Mural on our building's east wall, we continue to
defer to the Black History Committee on the mural's content and to COPA on its design.Our expectation
is that any mural painted on the building will be historically accurate so that we can continue to
successfully execute our mission to preserve and interpret the history of Loudoun County. Anything
less is a disservice to the legacy of those who dared greatly to make a difference in the lives of so many
in Loudoun's black community.
Now I'd take my museum hat off for a minute and address the Council from a personal perspective. My
Loudoun-based business, which was headquartered in the Town of Leesburg for many, many years,
employed over 5,000 employees in 43 states throughout this great country of ours when I sold it and
retired as its Chief Executive and its Chair of its Board. I have served as the Chairman of Loudoun's
Economic Development Commission and as Vice Chairman of Virginia's Growth and Opportunity
Council representing the Northern Virginia area. I have held board, trustee, and officer positions in
numerous Loudoun nonprofit and community organizations to include the (nova Loudoun Hospital
Board.
I am recognized as a leader in this community and I am disheartened by this Council's action in firing
three members of the Commission on Public Art who refused to be railroaded into a vote without
Page 5 I July 12, 2022
appropriate discussion and consideration. I know how hard it is firsthand to encourage young people to
serve on boards and public commissions.What kind of message are we sending to the next generation
of would-be community leaders when they see that if they speak up and voice opinion that is different
than that of the machine and they in effect can be and most likely will be dismissed.
That their voices don't matter. If you want to serve, be a rubber stamp for what the majority wants or
risk a public shaming, is that what we've become? Exactly one year ago today on July 12th, 2021 nearly
60 elected officials fled from the state of Texas to Washington DC to deny the majority of legislature a
quorum.Their purpose was to stall the passage of a bill on voting rights. Some of you on the dais might
have applauded that action at that time, but call it the same thing happened here and I'm really upset
about it. I think we need to rethink our decision on the COPA members.
Mayor Burk: Thank you, Ms. Virts, appreciate it. Is there anybody else in the audience that wishes to
speak at this point? Then I will close the petitioner section and that takes us to the consent agenda.
The consent agenda consists of 12 A, Police Station Expansion Project, Construction Management and
Inspection Services, B, the Vacation of Existing Sanitary Sewer and Waterline Easement Crosstrails
Boulevard and Kincaid Boulevard, C, Time Capsule for Douglass High School, D, Appointment to the
Commission on Public Art of Kristen Ponticelli, E, the Appointment to Commission on Public Art of
Deborah Morbeto, and F, the Appointment to the Commission on Public Art of Huyen MacMichael. Is
there anything anybody wishes to remove at this point?
Council Member Fox: Yes, 12 D, E and F. I'd like to remove those three.
Mayor Burk:All right, anybody else?Yes, sir.
Kaj Dentler: Madam Mayor, for the record I do need to make one clarification on 12 A. I did speak to
two of you today and I want to make sure that you have the correct information. I did learn tonight from
staff that staff estimates to spend no more than $5,000 of the $751,000 contract for Construction
Management Inspection Services. Earlier today I told two of you they would be spending no money if
the ultimate construction contract is not awarded by Council in September. It's important for me for the
record to correct that the staff estimate is they will not spend more than $5,000 of that and that is to
help them analyze the bids that will come in in mid-August. They need that expertise as well. Even
though it's a small amount I did tell you something differently today. I wanted to correct that on the dais.
Mayor Burk:Thank you.All right,is there a motion to accept 12 A, B and C?Council Member Steinberg.
Second?
Council Member Nacy: Second.
Mayor Burk: Council Member Nacy. All in favor indicate by saying, "Aye." Opposed? That is 6-0-1.
Appointment to the Commission on Public Art of Kristen Ponticelli?
Council Member Fox: I just wanted to speak to actually all three of them.After what we heard, I don't
know if this is the point to appoint people. I think rescinding some of the removal of the members, the
commissioners should be considered by us before we go to installing other members.
Mayor Burk: Do I have a motion to appoint Kristen Ponticelli, Deborah Morbeto and Huyen
MacMichael?Council Member Steinberg. Second?Council Member Cummings.All in favor indicate by
saying, "Aye." Opposed? That is 4-2-1. That takes us to a public hearing. Let me get to my right place
in the public hearing. I call to order this July 12th,2022 public hearing of Leesburg Town Council. Unless
there's an objection I will dispense with the reading of the advertisement.
If you wish to speak,we ask that you either sign up on the sheet in the hallway outside of the Council
Chamber but if you did not get the opportunity to sign up we will give you an opportunity to speak. In
the interest of fairness we also ask that you observe the five minute time limit. The green light in front
of you will turn yellow at the end of four minutes indicating that you have one minute remaining.At that
time we would appreciate your summing up and yielding in the floor when the bell indicates your time
is expired. Under the rules of order as adopted by this Council the five minute time limit applies to all
citizens.
Page 6 I July 12, 2022
However, rather than have numerous citizens present remarks on behalf of a group, the Council will
allow a spokesperson for a group a few extra minutes. In that instance we would ask speakers when
they sign up to indicate their status as a spokesperson, the group they represent and their request for
additional time. Our procedure for the public hearing is as follows. First there's a brief presentation by
staff about the item before us, then members of the public that have signed up to speak will be called
and given five minutes to make their comments. The public hearing item on the agenda for tonight is
TLOA-2021-0011 Limited Sign Amendments.You have a beard now. [laughs]
Brian Boucher: I do. It's because I'm just trying to show you how old and wise I am and it's because
the drain field isn't working at my house and we conserve water.This is one of the sacrifices I'm making.
Having informed you of all that you didn't care about this is an ordinance amendment that was initiated
some time ago and it's really seeking to do three things, at least to consider revising three sections in
our sign ordinance.One of the things that was initiated was to permit signage on the slope of an awning.
The second was establish an additional sign called a secondary wall sign for certain businesses under
certain circumstances.
The third was permit curbside pickup signs to have corporate information. On May 19th, 2022, the
Planning Commission recommended approval of the proposed secondary wall sign and the curbside
pickup sign by seven to nothing. What you had is we presented them with three amendments. They
recommended approval of two. What they did not recommend approval of is the one that would put
signs on the slopes of awnings. I'll let you know. Staff also made those recommendations to them in
the staff report two for three. Little background, back in November of last year, these three to consider
these potential changes was initiated by Council.
I'll take them one at a time first.The awning signs. If you take a look here the existing rule is signage is
allowed on an awning on the balance,the flap, but not on the slope.You get a picture of something that
would be allowed and then the two below would not be allowed.We did propose some language. It was
pretty simple how you could allow this. We froze that and that's there and it didn't get approved. From
an analysis I'll tell you why I think not. First, awing slope signs are permitted. You have some
jurisdictions allow them but they've not been traditionally found in Leesburg.When I say not traditionally
found they haven't been allowed for the last 100-plus years.
The purpose of our sign regulations,you want to have adequate signage and also there are other things
that you want to achieve. You want to make sure the signage is right in the context and that they
maintain public safety, et cetera.There's thought here that this type of sign wasn't exactly necessary in
Leesburg today, because it's really motivated more at motor vehicle traffic than it is pedestrian traffic
[unintelligible] downtown. Also, there's other technological avenues available to people today.
Signage, it isn't just the sign on the building. Now to find a place you can use some other things. I'll
show you where this came from.
The BAR has relied on this prohibition forever to prohibit signs on slopes on awnings in the H1. If you
look at these two pictures, one is from the early '40s and the other one is from around 1960. You see
there are a lot of awnings there. Some have signage on the flap, but none of them have signage on the
actual slope of the awning itself. Again, the idea is a lot of these people are walking down the street.
You can look across. If motor vehicles are driving, looking at a sign that's on the slope, it has always
been traditionally thought that's a little harder to read and maybe a little too diverting. They just haven't
been here.
The BAR also submitted something after your staff report went out that gave a rationale from their
standpoint of why this particular type of sign shouldn't be allowed in Leesburg. Again, they went to
tradition, they went to they thought the standpoint of it, perhaps it was too distracting. All three, staff,
Planning Commission and BAR all recommended against this particular sign. Now, I'm going to go to
the second sign that was considered. It was a secondary wall side. Our rule is you get two signs per
business. There are ways you can get around that comprehensive sign plan. You can be the historic
district get more. Generally, you get two.
The concern was that some businesses just because of the way they're oriented, they'll face a public
street, they'll put their signage on a public street, but when you come around the back of the building,
there's no sign, there's nothing on the door. Nothing indicates what business is this. I'll give you an
example. If you look at the two pictures there,you all know where Panda Express is, Potbelly, et cetera
Page 7 I July 12, 2022
in Battlefield Shopping Center. If you look at the building, the ones that everybody puts their signs on
front, but when you're driving in the shopping center and you're going by it to get to Chick-fil-A or
something and you look,there's no signage on the back of that building.
There's doors,there's service doors, but there's no signage. The thought was go ahead and give what
we'll call a secondary wall sign under certain circumstances. To sum it up, it's really this. If you have a
business that's got a door on the back,that actually uses a door on the back that people can get in and
out of and it could be just service, but you allow them to have one sign on this rear facade, put it over
the door, if that's most convenient. If there's lighting and other things in the way, you can put it on the
side of the building. The point is to indicate what business it is from the back. Mainly for service
personnel and also for people just trying to find the business when they're they're coming around.
Limited to 12 square feet in one sign. The Planning Commission looking at this, actually staff had said
if you were on an interior travel way, a vehicular travel, but the Planning Commission said why not give
it to businesses,whether it's an interior travel way if they backup to a public street, as long as they have
a door on the back, or even if it's a walkway behind, do it. Staff didn't disagree with that.That's actually
the language that's here. Basically, quite a few businesses in Leesburg could obtain this sign if it were
allowed. Again, it would be in addition to the other two signs. Technically called a third sign but it is
limited in size and location on what would essentially be the rear of the building.
Again,just showing you here that's the actual building I was talking about that has the Panda Express,
Potbelly et cetera. When you go by it, that's what you look at. The idea was they could put these 12-
square foot signs over the door to indicate that's the unit.The other is just indicating downtown Leesburg
Historic District. BAR has approved a lot of these when buildings have a front and rear entrance. The
final third one is something that really cropped up a lot during the pandemic. That's these pickup signs,
curbside pickup signs. People who couldn't go inside. Hey, you can come and pick up your food. It's
also now extended to merchandise.
You see a lot of shopping centers have it. They were being put up. We allow a thing called a minor
sign. Two square foot sign. You can do it by right to indicate something like parking, et cetera. People
were doing it here. We said, that's fine, but then some people said, can we just indicate logos on the
sign that this is ours, this is our space. That was what was initiated. Staff thinks it's a good idea. What
you can see there is the one that would be allowed today is curbside pickup.
The one that isn't allowed is that you see Chick-fil-A that has one that says--that wouldn't be allowed
because of the corporate information. If you adopted this amendment, that would be allowed, so that's
just the language of it, and what we said the corporate language take up half the sign, no more than
that. We just didn't want a big logo with a little thing, say about half. I don't think you need any of that.
Their approval criteria, whenever you all are looking at ordinance amendments, and that's you've got
to consider whether the proposal's consistent with the Town Plan and stated purposes of the Zoning
Ordinance. Staff thought that two of these were, the Planning Commission thought that two of these
were. The one that we did not recommend approval for, either at the staff level, at the planning
commission level or advice given by the BAR was the sign on awnings, and with that being said, I'll
certainly try to answer any questions you all may have.
Mayor Burk: Thank you. I have to ask are you, obviously, a Chick-fil-A fan? [laughs] Since your
reference kept going back to the--
Brian Boucher: That had nothing to do with the pictures. This is no attempt to advertise for anybody.
Mayor Burk: Oh, okay, all right. Just wondered if you were trying to be subtle there.
Brian Boucher: Convenient signs on the internet. What can I tell you?
Mayor Burk: Could you explain to me how big a 12-foot sign would be?
Brian Boucher: 3 feet by 4 feet.
Mayor Burk: 12 square feet, yes.
Page 8 I July 12, 2022
Brian Boucher: Or it could be 6 feet by 2 feet. We would just say as long as it totals no more than 12
square feet.
Mayor Burk: Okay. There was another question I had, but it slipped through my mind. Ms. Nacy, do
you have any questions?
Council Member Nacy:Thank you. Actually,what you asked about 12 square feet was on my list and
then I was just going to make the comment that I wholeheartedly agree with the awning thing to avoid
sign and word potion and just the overall look, but yes, otherwise, it all makes sense. Thank you.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Bagdasarian?
Council Member Bagdasarian:Yes. I like the beard by the way.
Brian Boucher: Oh. [chuckles]
Council Member Bagdasarian: I just shaved. Had I known. How frequently do we have requests for
signage on the incline, actually printing on the incline of the awnings?
Brian Boucher: Say that again. Excuse me.
Council Member Bagdasarian: How frequently do we have requests for the incline?
Brian Boucher:Actually,this came to us two ways.One,a business that's no longer operating actually
put them on before coming to the Town and asking. and that was outside of the H1.Then there was a
second group that actually in the Historic District that ordered an awning with their information on the
slope before they came to staff to find out what the regulations were. Those were the two. No one
appeared at the public hearing for the Planning Commission and I see tonight we haven't had any
speakers, at least yet, on this issue.
Council Member Bagdasarian: What does happen as far as enforcement of a business that does
order and install an awning with the printing on the slope?
Brian Boucher: If they did that, we would move against them as a zoning action. The only thing we
learned in zoning, a lot of people will do things and then ask for forgiveness.A good way to get around
the rules sometimes, but in a case like this, we would enforce the rules. One other thing, even if slips
and awnings were allowed in the Historic District, remember the BAR has the authority to say it's
inappropriate in a particular case.
Council Member Bagdasarian:All right. Thank you.
Mayor Burk: Ms. Fox?
Council Member Fox: Thank you. Just one quick question. Why did we not allow for corporate logos
before on signs?
Brian Boucher: Oh, yes, well, it's a good question. It seems silly, but I think the idea was if you put
corporate information,then we're counting that as one of your two signs.You know these two signs that
every business gets? It can be much larger, and so the idea was if you put corporate information on it,
we're going to count that, because the way we defined minor sign, it pretty much does that. This is
something that you all requested to be fixed and I think we agree it needed to be fixed.
Council Member Fox: When you do the suggested motions, I agree with the writing on the faces, the
slopes. I agree with that, but that's not for approval. We'd have to approve two and deny one, correct?
Brian Boucher: Yes, I knew I would confuse you doing this and I apologize in advance. We had three
different amendments that were initiated, and so what we did,we put them all in the draft ordinance. If
you look at the approval there, if you did not agree with slopes on awnings and wanted to delete it,that
motion would have to be amended to delete that portion of the draft ordinance.
Page 9 I July 12, 2022
Council Member Fox: Okay.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Steinberg?
Council Member Steinberg: Thanks. First, I want to commend Brian on his somewhat biblical level
sound effects in the course of his presentation.That really added to the ambience of such a magnificent
subject. I have no issues with the suggested motion. I think it makes perfect sense related to the
awnings and also to provide some information on the backs of the buildings for potential customers.
Thanks.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Cummings?
Council Member Zach Cummings: Yes, thanks. Do we have different signage rules for the Historic
District and then businesses outside of the Historic District?
Brian Boucher: Yes,we do. We do.
Council Member Cummings: Okay. I guess my question would be what is the reasoning then that
was given at the Planning or Commission or the BAR or staff to not allow signage on slopes of awnings
outside the Historic District but to preserve the look and feel of Historic Downtown Leesburg. I totally
understand not having printing on the slope of the awning.
Brian Boucher:Well,we have other districts that are also regulatory when it comes to architecture and
signage like the Gateway Overlay District.The thought was to be consistent in the Town. I think, again,
some believe that if the signs are close to road, it can be a bit distracting just because they're a little
hard to read if they're on a slope,or could potentially be in brings the eye up farther away from the road.
The thought was to just-- we thought we had enough sign options out there that this one wasn't
particularly necessary. It would maintain the traditional look because this lack of signs on the slopes of
awnings has been throughout the Town in its history so far.
Council Member Cummings: Okay. You had mentioned in your comments that there's a way-- Right
now, you're capped at two signs on your business, but there's a way to get more than two signs?
Brian Boucher:Yes.
Council Member Cummings: Can you walk me through how a business could do that?
Brian Boucher: A couple of ways. Certainly, if you're in the Historic District, you can always go to the
BAR. You have to make a case and see if you could get more than two signs. Sometimes that's been
allowed. They've allowed more than two and no more than three on occasion. Outside of it, if you're in
a shopping center,we have what we call a comprehensive sign plan.
What it is, is the owner of the shopping center comes in and says, "I want to set some rules for my
particular shopping center."You can tailor some additional signage for the shopping center. Sometimes
that can be an increase in number or increase in size in the signs than we would normally get if you're
just going straight out of the Zoning Ordinance.
Council Member Cummings: Okay.What was the reasoning for the signage on the back of a building,
potentially, that it needed to have an entrance requirement? Because the pictures you showed us at
Crumb)Cookie and the other places,those aren't actual entrances for customers.Those are entrances
for--
Brian Boucher: No. I should say it's just an entrance, could be employees, customers,either one.Just
as long as it had an entrance on the back,they felt it was justified.
Council Member Cummings: There was no concern, staff has no concern, or the Planning
Commission about confusion for a smaller 12-square foot sign beside the door, like at the Leesburg
Diner,which you can,although they don't like you to enter from there,but you could enter as a customer
there,there's no concern about the confusion?
Page 10 I July 12, 2022
Brian Boucher: They could put an instructional sign that says, "No admittance. Not a customer
entrance," or something like that. They could do that. They can, and that you can do as one of these,
again, these smaller sizes,just giving information to people.They could put"No entrance".
Council Member Cummings: Okay. I have no more questions.
Mayor Burk: Okay. Is there anybody from the public that wants to speak? Nobody has signed up. Is
there anybody in the audience that would like to speak at this point? Okay, nobody coming forward, I
will close the public hearing. See, I didn't need to be reminded. I'll close the public hearing. Is there a
motion that anybody would like to[crosstalk]
Council Member Fox:Yes. I'd like to move.
Mayor Burk: Could you state the motion, please?
Council Member Fox: Sure. I move to approve Zoning Ordinance Amendment TLOA-2021-0011,
revising various sections of TLZO Article 15 sign regulations based on the findings,that the amendments
further objectives of the Town Plan and the proposal would serve public necessity, convenience,
general welfare, and good zoning practice.
Council Member Steinberg: Second.
Mayor Burk: Seconded by Council Member Steinberg.
Council Member Cummings: Madam Mayor?
Mayor Burk:Yes.
Council Member Cummings: Can I ask if the motion maker would be open? I'm okay with the awning
and the curbside signs. I do have some concern with some of the language on the secondary wall signs,
just because I think I'm the one that brought this forward and I had a lot of conversations with business
owners at the Village of Leesburg, as well as Crumbl Cookies and some of the other businesses, and
their idea was not so much to highlight the door.
It was to highlight, because they have a 360-degree access to their building and the idea was to allow
some promotion from the backside when folks come in and don't see the front of their buildings, but
they do see the rear of the building to allow them to advertise that they're there. My hope would be
maybe that if we can, I'm, again, I'm fine passing the awning and the curbside signage, but I'd love to
work a little bit more with staff and Planning Commission to try to get the secondary signage language
a little bit more what these businesses have asked for.
Council Member Fox: I'm fine.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Steinberg?
Council Member Steinberg: A question for Brian. All of these particular situations mentioned are
indeed not in the H, the B1, so they're all privately held concerns, Virginia Village, and so on. You
described the process by which the owner of the property comes in with the sign plan.Wouldn't that, in
effect, given what we're seeing here, wouldn't that give the owner the opportunity then to create a
situation if it was merited?
Brian Boucher: I don't want to overstate what we do with a sign plan, a comprehensive sign plan,
because I do believe people in the past have asked me and said, "Well,you can always put something
that maybe just says no entrance on the back,"and we really haven't allowed it is a comprehensive sign
plan. It's something that's fairly close to the vest, it allows some changes but we don't go very broadly
in it.
Council Member Steinberg: Okay, but what I'm asking you is, in a situation like that, are the individual
tenants free to do as they wish in a more controlled situation?
Page 11 I July 12, 2022
Brian Boucher: Often when we get a comprehensive sign plan, it's usually tenants that will bring it
because they might want something slightly different from what's otherwise in the shopping center, but
the rules apply to the shopping center when we amend something under the comprehensive sign plan.
Mayor Burk: If I could interrupt, many of the comprehensive sign plans,the landlord wants a consistent
design, [crosstalk] a particular color or some sort of print. •
Brian Boucher: It's a good point because that's one of the things that happens with this is that whatever
is done,we are looking for some consistency. It doesn't mean that everything has to be the same color,
maybe you get your logos in there, but we want a consistency in the signage throughout the shopping
center. It's hard to bargain to get a comprehensive sign plan, some larger signs and maybe a little
additional signage, but you're asking, going back to your question, you're saying, "Could you put it on
the back?" and they just say, "Hey, do we do a comprehensive sign plan and give everybody a sign on
the back?" One,we haven't done that under it.
I think there were some. From the staff concerned, we don't necessarily want to go and do things that
the Council hasn't authorized in some way and I think that fit into that situation. I'll give you an example,
just one more about the signs and maybe it goes to your point. The Planning Commission, one of the
things I mentioned was if you all know where Moe's is in the Potomac Station Shopping Center, at that
intersection, so there's the Potomac Station Drive and Battlefield. That commercial building backs up
to Potomac Station Drive.
When you're going along there, you see the back of that strip building and there are some doors there
but there's no vehicular access, and I don't think people ever go back there. I think there's a walkway,
but they really don't go back there. When staff originally wrote this, they would not have been able to
get signs the way we wrote it because we wanted it in interior traffic, inside the shopping center. But
the Commission felt that it was all right to put signs there in that situation,because after all they're facing
a public road and they thought it would be okay. I think what you're suggesting is in that case it would
not be because those aren't public, those aren't entrances to customers.
Council Member Cummings: No, I would, not to jump in here asking a question. I think we should
allow them to have signs whether there's a door in the back or not. When it comes to where there are,
it's difficult to track, folks are coming in from different angles or, for instance, the Crumbl, what you
showed, the 360 degree where you're in the middle of a shopping complex, we should provide our
businesses with the opportunity to promote themselves as much as possible. I'm just concerned that
we're muddying the waters and making it very difficult for our small business owners to understand what
exactly they're allowed and not allowed to do when a landlord can go through this special process to
get a special signage plan.
To me, that's just one more step of government to bring down and slow down our small businesses
from being able to advertise themselves. I would prefer if we were,just tweak the language for a future
meeting and we can do another public hearing, tweak the language for a secondary wall sign because
I think there are multiple situations where a secondary wall sign is important like at the Village at
Leesburg and other places. I think it's worth our time to have that conversation because we're talking
about the small businesses which are the engine of our Town.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Bagdasarian.
Council Member Steinberg: Madam Mayor, I wasn't actually done. [chuckles]
Mayor Burk: Pardon me?
Council Member Steinberg: I said I actually wasn't done.
Mayor Burk: Oh, you weren't done?
Council Member Steinberg: I wasn't finished.
Council Member Bagdasarian: Okay then.
Page 12 1 July 12, 2022
Mayor Burk: Mr. Cummings.
Council Member Steinberg: No, I think it was me. [laughs]
Council Member Bagdasarian: I yield my time.
Council Member Steinberg: Getting back to the property privately held, can the owner dictate,first of
all,whether or not those signs are permitted?
Brian Boucher:Yes, the owner always can.
Council Member Steinberg: The owner always can.
Brian Boucher: This is just what the Town will allow, not all owners allow, necessarily allow.
Council Member Steinberg: Understood. Let's say the owner does permit, is any business owner then
entitled to come forward asking for an exception to the language?
Brian Boucher: Again, that's a private matter if the Town allows it and the owner, the property owner
who has a lease with says, "No, you can't have it,"we would say, that's a private matter.
Council Member Steinberg:No, I'm saying the owner is okay with the request,can the business owner
come to the Town with what is an effect of a special exception to the rule?
Brian Boucher: Again, what they would ask we'd have to have the owner and we don't try to make it
for just one, it's usually something that you apply to the shopping center. If someone came and asked
that again, I think from a staff standpoint,we'd say it's something we just haven't ever authorized before,
so we're not going to let you do it in a comprehensive sign plan.
When we do this, we take things that are allowed and we might make go a little long--we take signs
that are allowed. I guess really getting what I should have said earlier is that's something that's not
explicitly in our ordinance, so we stay away from giving those types of things under the comprehensive
sign plan.
Council Member Steinberg: My thought here is, as we have discussed in our planning many times
that we're trying to create an identity within the Town that relates to the downtown. If our intention then
is to at least somewhat stem what can easily become an extraordinary proliferation of signage, which
is not uncommon. We have certainly seen property owners take advantage at every turn if they can,
which is not to say everybody would be, I'm personally more comfortable with a slightly stricter language
to start and see what that gets us.
Mayor Burk: This we started with asking Ms. Fox if she accepted the amendment and she said yes,
but you are not willing to accept it? All right, then it doesn't get amended, the original motion stays in
place.
Council Member Fox: I have a little bit of an amendment to my original motion.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Bagdasarian, speak.
Council Member Fox: It's not even substantive, it's grammatical.
Mayor Burk: Can we let Mr. Bagdasarian since he's been waiting very patiently, so as Ms. Nacy,
everybody's [crosstalk]
Council Member Bagdasarian:Just another point of clarification I think to Mr. Steinberg's question as
well, so when it comes to a private development like the Village at Leesburg, for example, does the
property owners regulations and rules for signage in the back of the buildings override the Town zoning
depending on what that is?
Page 13 I July 12, 2022
Brian Boucher: Again, at least private matters and the zoning ordinance says it itself, if we allow
something but there is a private agreement, something won't be allowed, then we do not enforce our
rules, the private rights supersede the Town's rights. For example, if we allow a home daycare in
Potomac Crossing and their HOA says, we will not allow that use, then even though we would allow it,
you can't get it.
Council Member Bagdasarian: Thank you for the clarification.
Mayor Burk: [unintelligible] Ms. Nacy.
Council Member Nacy: I was just going to add that reading it again now,I think I agree with Councilman
Cummings. The easy fix in my mind would be just to remove that it must be centered above the rear
doorway and that solves the problem, right?
Mayor Burk:Well, not quite.
Council Member Nacy:Well we already have a motion. [laughs]
Mayor Burk:Yes, Ms. Fox?
Council Member Fox: Just when I was reading that, I tripped up and it was some syntax and I just
wasn't getting it. Can we put further the objectives instead of further objectives? It just didn't read right
to me.
Brian Boucher: I'll complain to the person who put that in,which is me.
Council Member Fox: [laughs] it didn't make sense.
Mayor Burk:That's a grammatical change, right?
Council Member Fox: It was just a small grammatical change.
Brian Boucher: Thank you for pointing that out.
Council Member Fox:Thank you.
Council Member Nacy: I have a question about the motion on the table and then there was a friendly
amendment that was--
Mayor Burk: The friendly amendment died.
Council Member Nacy: Can I do another friendly amendment?
Mayor Burk:You can try.
Council Member Nacy: I would like to make a friendly amendment to remove, "the sign must be
centered above the rear doorway." Will you pull up the, on the slide, it's not numbered, so I can't tell
you which one it is. If you go to the actual language in the ordinance. Number three, and then halfway,
last line, essentially last full.
Mayor Burk: Centered above the rear door or near to the side. You have a choice. It says, must be
centered above the rear doorway or near to the side.
Council Member Nacy:Yes. Could we just strike that?
Brian Boucher: So you're suggesting strike the last sentence that reads, "The sign must be centered
above the rear door or near to the side if impeded by windows, lights or other obstructions"?
Mayor Burk: Because now you have a choice, you can do it on the side or you can do it above it.
Page 14 I July 12, 2022
Council Member Fox: Only if, yea. •
Council Member Nacy: If only if it's impeded by windows, lights or other obstructions or near to the
side. Let's strike if impeded by windows, lights, or other obstructions.
Council Member Fox: I can go for that. [laughs]
Mayor Burk: Would that be accepted by the maker and the seconder? You're going to get rid of that
last sentence?
Brian Boucher: [unintelligible] last sentence.
Mayor Burk: If impeded. That's what it is.
Brian Boucher:That's the motion--
Mayor Burk: If impeded by the window, window lights, or other obstructions. They have the choice of
doing it above the door or to the side of the door.
Council Member Steinberg: Is that underneath?
Mayor Burk: Yes.You can't do it underneath the door or on the door.
Council Member Steinberg:You might miss damaging the door when attaching something.
Mayor Burk: They accepted the friendly amendment. We have a motion by Council Member Fox,
seconded by Council Member Steinberg.All in favor, indicate by saying aye.
Members:Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed?
Council Member Cummings: Nay.
Mayor Burk: Okay,that passes. 5-1-1. Thank you.
Brian Boucher:Thank you.
Mayor Burk: That takes us to Council Member future meetings and topic agendas. Mr. Cummings?
Council Member Cummings: No disclosures.Just wanted to say thank you to Town staff for the Fourth
of July. I missed the parade, but I heard it was great. The fireworks were wonderful. The music was
great. Thank you for all of your staffs' efforts. It was another great Fourth of July.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Steinberg.
Council Member Steinberg: [inaudible]
Mayor Burk: Ms. Fox.
Council Member Fox: One addition. If Council would consider helping the three ladies who are here,
actually about the oppression in China. We went ahead and did that proclamation, but I would love to
give it some teeth and I asked them how we can best help with that. They said that if we or somebody
could get them in touch with Senator Wexton. I thought maybe we could collectively send a letter to
Senator Wexton, requesting a meeting for these three ladies.Tiny Tang,Jisan Pae and Wang Chunyan
Then as part B of that,maybe do some due diligence here on our part to see if we have any partnerships,
supply chain, business, anything tied to Jin Jiang or anything benefiting from either [inaudible] Falun
Gong or slave labor.
Page 15 I July 12, 2022
•
Mayor Burk: You want that on a future--
Council Member Fox:Yes, if we want to talk about it,but I would like to send a letter to Senator Wexton
at their request.
Mayor Burk: That's for a future meeting?
Council Member Fox: Does that have to be for a future meeting? I don't know.
Mayor Burk: Does not necessarily have to be, but do we have to suspend the rules to do that?
Christopher Spera: If you wanted to take action tonight, you'd have to suspend the rules. If you want
to just add it to a subsequent work session, you have done enough.
Council Member Fox: It's okay, but that's fine if we do a work session. I'll just go ahead and ask to
suspend the rules and do that.
Mayor Burk:You're asking for a letter to Congresswoman Wexton?
Council Member Fox:Yes, to give these three ladies an audience, yes.
Mayor Burk: Is this majority? Sorry. Suspend the rule, is it three-fourths? Are there four people that
would be willing to send a letter to vote on it to suspend the rules tonight? Are there four people that
would be willing to suspend the rules for this?
Members: Yes.
Mayor Burk: Ms. Fox, Ms. Nacy, Mr. Bagdasarian, Ms. Burk, Mr-- Well, I guess it was everybody.
[laughs] People need to raise their hands. Okay, and then you want--
Council Member Fox: I want to make the motion.
Mayor Burk: You want a more in-depth discussion on relationships that we could look at in regard to
the topic.
Council Member Fox:Yes.
Mayor Burk: All right. Are there four people that would be willing to talk about that at a future work
session,and that's just everybody. Okay.Over here, on this side. Mr. Bagdasarian?Ms. Nacy?All right,
I would just like to thank Asa Rusk for giving me, and Visit Loudoun CEO Beth Erickson a tour of the
new golf cart routes. It was great fun, and I'm sure many people are going to use this service on a
regular basis. I want to congratulate Town staff for another fabulous Fourth of July parade and fireworks
show.
It's amazing what staff can do to make this day so safe and fun and inspiring.They work from sunup to
sundown and they do it with such good spirit and with such a good attitude. I want to thank all of
everyone that was involved in that, I want to thank Amy Bobcheck and her daughter Julia for giving Mr.
Steinberg, Mr.Cummings,and myself afantastic tour of all the Town's public art. It was very entertaining
with lots of interesting information. We have some very interesting pieces that sometimes you forget
about. It was great to be reminded of all that's out there.
I want to welcome Rebellion, a new restaurant and bar in Town. It's a huge addition to the culinary
environment in Leesburg, and most certainly delighted that they're here. I want to welcome Treks Bike
to the Village of Leesburg. They have trek bikes in their store, and only trek bikes, and they have lots
of them. If that's what you're looking for, that's the place to go.
I'm disappointed by some of the individuals that have been fighting the Black History Mural. Art is not
history. Art is interpretation and conversation. This mural has been generously donated to the Town
Page 16 I July 12, 2022
and has met with such obstruction that has been embarrassing,that the donor and the supporters have
been disrespected and treated so rudely.
It is a shame that individuals with agendas that have nothing to do with Black History but with politics
are leading opposition to an already approved mural. As far as I'm concerned, that's the last I'm going
to say about it, and I look forward to having it up on the walls and we can all enjoy it in the future. I want
to thank all the different businesses that have welcomed me to the establishments to meet the Mayor
and I look forward to doing even more of them.
Council Member Fox: Madam Mayor.
Mayor Burk:What?
Council Member Fox: Are we always supposed to take a vote now? I know we voted to suspend the
rules, but do we take a vote on the actual motion?
Mayor Burk: Oh,yes,we do.
Council Member Fox: Okay. [laughs]
Mayor Burk: Sorry.
Council Member Fox: I just wondered.
Mayor Burk: Darn, I thought I'd get through without being corrected once. Okay. We do need to have
a vote to have the conversation about the things that we can do.
Council Member Nacy: Oh, no, is to send the letter.
Mayor Burk: For sending the letter.
Council Member Nacy:Yes.
Mayor Burk: Thank you. Okay, all in favor of sending the letter to Congresswoman Wexton to give a
second.
Council Member Fox: No, I think it's a motion.
Mayor Burk: Okay, thank you. It is a motion.You made it.
Council Member Fox: Sorry.
Mayor Burk: Council Member Fox made it.
Council Member Nacy: I'll second.
Mayor Burk: Council Member Nacy seconded. All in favor?
Members:Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed?That passes unanimously.
Council Member Fox: Thank you.
Mayor Burk: All right. Thank you for picking that up. I appreciate that. Mr. Town Manager? Is there a
motion to adjourn?
Council Member Bagdasarian: So moved.
Page 17 I July 12, 2022
Mayor Burk: Moved by Mr. Bagdasarian. Second?
Council Member Fox: Second.
Council Member Steinberg: Second.
Mayor Burk: Seconded by Ms. Fox and Mr. Steinberg.All in favor?
Members:Aye.
Mayor Burk:All right.
Page 18 July 12, 2022