HomeMy Public PortalAboutCouncil Minutes 2003 10/23MINUTES
McCall City Council
Regular Meeting
Thursday, October 23, 2003
Table of Contents
Call to Order and Roll Call
Public Hearing
Public Comment
Consent Agenda
Minutes of October 16, 2003
Invoice Approval List Dated October 15, 2003 and October 12, 2003
Payroll Report for Pay Period Ending October 10, 2003
AB 03-161 Donation to McCall Public Library of new propane furnace from A-1
Electric
AB 03-162 Lease Purchase 1998 CAT 140H Motor Grader
Business
AB 03-164 Petition regarding Syringa Drive Construction
Reports
Executive Session
Personnel Idaho Code 67-2345(1b) to consider a personnel matter
Adjournment
CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL
Mayor Colton called the regular meeting of the McCall City Council to order at 7:00 p.m.
Mayor Colton, Council Member Arp, Council Member Muller, and Council Member
Eimers answered roll call. A quorum was present. City staff members present were
City Attorney Susan Buxton, City Manager Robert Strope, Community Development
Director Lindley Kirkpatrick, Public Works Director Bill Keating, Police Chief Ralph
Appa, Parks and Recreation Director Brock Heasley, Librarian Anne Kantola, Golf
Course Director Dan Pillard, Airport Manager Kevin Delaney, Network Administrator
Dave Simmonds, and Treasurer & City Clerk Barbara Bauer.
Mayor Colton noted that an additional Warrant Register for October 23, 2003 has been
added to the consent agenda.
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PUBLIC COMMENT
Mayor Colton called for public comment.
No public comment was received.
CONSENT AGENDA
Mayor Colton moved to approve the Consent Agenda with the addition of the
Warrant register dated October 23, 2003 and authorize the Mayor to sign all
necessary documents. Council Member Arp seconded the motion. In a roll call
vote, Mayor Colton, Council Member Arp, and Council Member Eimers voted aye.
The motion carried.
BUSINESS
AB 03-164 Petition regarding Syringa Drive reconstruction
Public Works Director Bill Keating told Council Members that the Syringa development
project was done according to the City road standards, the project turned out well, and
staff recommendation is that the standards not be changed. The current street
construction standards are appropriate for our community allow affordable maintenance
and should not be changed. There are differences in how street edges were handled on
this project because the lots at the upper end of the street did not require the same
drainage or ongoing maintenance as those at the bottom of the loop.
City Engineer Vern Brewer of Holladay Engineering reviewed a handout provided to the
Council Members and audience. This information covers the standards for public roads
and design. Seven key points included:
1. The City of McCall already has the most efficient and cost effective standard for
roadside drainage. It is used across the state by cities without curb and gutter and is
recommended by the Idaho Standards for Public Works Construction. The reason
these standards are used is because this system is easy to maintain and to construct,
and is an easy method to get water away from the street. Drainage is critical for the
protection of the investment in the street.
2. The investment in the street was $158,500, including the base, level course, asphalt,
and driveways.
3. The City of McCall has a long History of using this standard, having been used since
prior to 1993. Areas not using the present standards have much more frequent
rebuilding costs. With limited maintenance dollars, the money is better spent
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maintaining drainage as a first priority, because without drainage the road surface will
not last.
4. To construct an edge drain system (see illustration), the cost out would be about
$13.35 per center line linear foot, or about $6.50 per running foot on each side of the
street.
5. An estimate of a retro-fit for Syringa from the current borrow ditch to an edge drain
system would be approximately $50,000
6. The edge drain standard would also cause a high increase in long range
maintenance costs. Edge drain is meant for highways, which do not have cuts in the
edge of the road. Cities need to cut edges for water, gas, and other underground
utilities, which weaken the side of the road and cause increased maintenance. The city
is not set up to monitor or maintain this type of system.
7. Changing the current standard for Syringa will set a precedent for design and cost of
future construction of roads in other areas of the city that would be more difficult and
expensive to maintain.
Note: Current road is $90 per running foot on that road and the addition of another
$13.00 per running foot is very expensive and should be done with an LID or
neighborhood funding rather than tax dollars. Holiday Engineering would recommend
that the City retain the current standard and follow ISPWC recommendations.
Joe Johnson, Syringa Subdivision helped start the petition. His first question was why
the standard was totally abandoned at the upper end of the road but not the lower. This
change created a loss of roadside parking, eliminated peoples ability to drive directly
onto yards and is a safety hazard. He liked Allan Muller's suggestion that the ditches
be filled with Basalt.
Shirley Potter, 612 Syringa Drive, lives in a home without a ditch in front of her house.
After two informal discussions with the Streets Department and engineers, she was
under the understanding that Bill could make changes in how the project was
completed, and that she had convinced him to eliminate the ditches. Shirley thought
the changes would cover the entire subdivision, not just the participants of the
discussions. The original road was built on old road fill with two inches of cover in 1980
or 1981 with crack sealing only twice. During that time, there were no drainage or run-
off problems. She feels that the current standards are overkill, but use of basalt rock fill
and chip compacted in the ditches would create an effective french drain. To illustrate
her safety concerns, She also mentioned an incident with a young boy swerving into the
ditch and being thrown from his bike.
Bill Murphy, 510 Colorado Drive, likes having the road paved. There was only one
situation over the past years where there has been any runoff problems on his property.
He also believes the street was over -engineered and will cause erosion in the spring.
Christie Gorsline, 945 Lick Creek Road and a candidate for Council responded to a
request from residents of the subdivision to look at the ditches and felt that with the
narrow roads in the area visitors will need to park in the street, thereby narrowing the
roadway to a single traffic lane.
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Steven Thielst, 620 Syringa, was an early owner and lives in the highest home in the
subdivision. He believes that the steepness in the area will make it dangerous in winter
and will cause problems getting a boat in during the summer. It is nice to have a paved
road, but he does not feel this was an improvement and he wants to see the ditch filled
in. He also stated that he may fill the ditch in on his own.
Gale Verschoor, 605 Syringa, has serious concerns about safety of children in the area
and her ability to exit her driveway as she leaves for work at midnight, when her
neighbors have trailers. She resents a suggestion that the residents pay for a change.
She feels that when the snow gets deep, cars will slide into the ditch.
Richard Rehberg, 611 Syringa, was unhappy because there was inadequate notice of
the project even being done prior to the beginning of construction. He suggests that the
neighborhoods be involved in a meeting prior to the beginning of work on projects in the
future. The road is now too narrow for an RV to get to his home in the summer and the
loss of street parking will create a liability for the City if someone is hurt leaving his or
her car by falling into the ditch.
Mayor Colton asked Vern Brewer if the $50,000 estimated cost of making the requested
change could be lowered by doing only partial work. Converting the remaining areas to
edge drain is expensive because the systems are so different that the current work has
to be removed in order to switch. It would be possible to choose a specific area to
change without redoing the full neighborhood except that all spots in specific drainage
flows need to be treated the same way to maintain drainage.
Shirley Potter, 612 Syringa Drive, believes the old road and drainage would have lasted
for another 30 years and the only reason that the recent work was done is because of
water and sewer line projects.
Vern noted that lots at the upper end of the street did not require the maintenance of
ditches because they are at the top of a steep hill and natural drainage will not be a
problem. The standards were applied equally within the project when runoff was
deemed to be an issue, but when there will be no significant runoff, like areas at the top
of the hill, there is no need for a culvert or ditch. Many of these decisions cannot be
made until work begins on the project.
The path of the road has shifted to the center of the right-of-way to avoid damaging
people's "yard space" within the City right-of-way. Using the full right-of-way could
reduce the slope in some areas but it will require changes that impact some
landscaping. At this point, the work is completed except for several manhole collars,
covers and a connection to be completed on the sewer system. In doing this, the
driveway shoulders and edges have been filled to reduce the steepness. Shoulder
rolling and packing is being done.
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Mickey Pillars, 608 Syringa, stated that there are also missing property markers at the
corners of 608 and 611 Syringa. Swales have not been completed at all addresses,
including 611 Syringa.
Rand Walker asked about the specific slope minimums that are included in the handout
and whether it would be possible to reduce the depth of the ditch and still meet the
minimum standards. The actual minimum depth standard requirement is six inches
below the full depth of the street construction layers. The depth of the ditch can be
reduced in most places if the full right-of-way is used in order to move the center of the
ditch away from the road center, but it will impact landscaping done by homeowners.
Bill Keating noted that the primary water runoff in the past was through several specific
properties where people have had serious water problems in the past. In Idaho, it is
illegal for public entities to shift runoff over private property. Idaho law does not allow
the City to let runoff from public right-of-ways run onto private property. It is also
important to have two feet of cover over culverts that run under the driveways. He also
pointed out that the difference between this project and an area on Washington Street
cited as an example of a different treatment is that on Washington Street the work was
a repaving project, not an actual street rebuilding.
Gale Verschoor, 605 Syringa, again asked that the Council and Public Works hold
meetings in neighborhoods to discuss future work projects before they are begun.
Mayor Colton thanked the audience members for providing an opportunity to look for a
solution. He noted that the best lesson of the evening is the need to discuss the
projects with neighbors before they begin and make sure that the property owners know
what will be happening and when it will occur. Any changes that impact the full right-of-
way will include a discussion with the impacted property owners. There are also power
lines in the City right-of-way. It was agreed that notification to those who signed the
petition regarding any decision will be made via letter from the City Manager. People
still need to watch the Council Agendas to learn when future action or discussion will be
scheduled.
REPORTS
City Manager — Robert Strope
Council agreed to have one meeting in November after the November 5, 2003 election
certification meeting and to hold only one meeting in December.
Robert asked the Council to authorize a letter to the paper supporting the local option
tax but agreed to handle it differently since the support is not unanimous.
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EXECUTIVE SESSION
At 9:13 p.m., Mayor Colton moved to go into executive session per Idaho Code
67-2345 (1 b) to consider personnel matters. Council Member Eimers seconded
the motion. Mayor Colton, Council Member Arp, and Council Member Eimers
voted aye. The motion carried.
The discussion concerned personnel matters.
ADJOURNMENT
Without further business, Mayor Colton moved to adjourn. Council Member Arp
seconded the motion. All Council Members voted aye. The motion carried. The
Council adjourned at 9:47 p.m.
Ralph C. ton, ayodt(4.-
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ATTEST:
Robert Strope, Jerk
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