HomeMy Public PortalAbout11-10-1998PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING - NOVEMBER 10, 1998
PRESENT: LENNY LEVER, FRANK MIGNONE, JERRY BROST, CAROLYN SMITH.
ELIZABETH WEIR AND SUSIE MACKAY. KATHY COOK ARRIVED AT
6:30 P.M. AND BRUCE WORKMAN ARRIVED AT 8:20 P.M. ALSO
PRESENT: PLANNING AND ZONING ADMINISTRATOR LOREN
KOHNEN, CITY CLERK PAUL ROBINSON AND PLANNING AND
ZONING ASSISTANT SANDIE LARSON
The meeting was called to order by chairperson Lenny Leuer at 6:00 p.m.
1. DISCUSSION OF COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
There was discussion of color on the maps that Paul was doing - maybe a different
color for lakes and a different color for cattail areas
Discussion of former landfill area
Population Estimates
Clarify estimate vs actual in code to be able to read the graph better
Discussion of Land Use Map with wetlands and without. Paul stated that he had used
the tax records for data. He stated that the Met council likes agriculture areas to be 5+
acres - he pointed out all the different uses of properties - open water - wetlands and
parks = 45% of the city.
2. DISCUSSION OF SEPTIC ORDINANCE
Loren Kohnen said that we need to have a new septic ordinance in place by the 1st of
the year and if not, the county would administer all septic work, inspections, etc. Will
have a public hearing at the January 1999 meeting with a letter being sent to the
appropriate people stating that we are working on it.
The new ordinance will outline the program for inspections and the council will decide
how to treat the inspections, etc. Hopefully there can be some wording that a failing
system does not necessarily mean one that is not working.
3. THOMAS AND ELEANOR CROSBY - RE -ZONING OF 40 ACRES FROM
RURAL RESIDENTIAL TO AGRICULTURE PRESERVE - PUBLIC HEARING
Loren Kohnen read his memo to the planning commission and put up an overhead of
the area showing the topography and location.
Leslie Chapman, 1910 Iroquois Drive, said that she was thrilled about this and wanted
to thank the Crosby's and Leatherdales for doing this so the property does not get
subdivided.
Frank Mignone said he felt this was good for Medina.
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Jerry Brost said let's just vote.
Carolyn Smith said that we should encourage it more.
Kathy Cook asked about the Agriculture Preserve program.
L. Kohnen said that the planning commission does the recommendation on the re-
zoning and the city council does the action to put the property into the program. In Ag
Preserve, one home can be built on a 40 acre parcel and when it is requested to come
out of the program, it then is 8 years before the property can be developed.
MOVED BY ELIZABETH WEIR AND SECONDED BY JERRY BROST TO
RECOMMEND THE RE -ZONING OF THE CROSBY 40 ACRE PARCEL FROM RURAL
RESIDENTIAL TO AGRICULTURE PRESERVE.
Lenny Leuer asked what the soil borings were for that he saw there.
Douglas Leatherdale said it was probably done by others trying to buy and subdivide.
MOTION PASSED.
4. DOUGLAS AND LOUISE LEATHERDALE - REZONING OF 40 ACRES FROM
RURAL RESIDENTIAL TO AGRICULTURE PRESERVE - PUBLIC HEARING
Loren Kohnen read his memo to the planning commission and put up the overhead of
the area.
Elizabeth Weir applauded this being done.
Leslie Chapman, 1910 Iroquois Drive, again stated how pleased she was with the
Crosby's and Leatherdales doing this.
MOVED BY FRANK MIGNONE AND SECONDED BY CAROLYN SMITH TO
RECOMMEND THE REZONING THE LEATHERDALE 40 ACRE PARCEL FROM
RURAL RESIDENTIAL TO AGRICULTURE PRESERVE.
MOTION PASSED.
5. HOLY NAME OF JESUS CATHOLIC CHURCH - CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT
AMENDMENT FOR ADDITION TO CHURCH AND PARKING - PUBLIC
HEARING
Loren Kohnen read his memo to the planning commission and put up an overhead of
the area and put up an overhead of the area. Loren stated that Glenn Cook, city
engineer, had not yet received calculations on the storm water plan. He also mentioned
that Dave Zetterstrom of Hennepin County roads said that it was up to the city about
removing one of the entrances that were currently on County Road 24. He also said
that #9 in his suggested conditions should be changed to read that candle power at any
property line not to exceed 0 - this would be consistent with other churches. Also #4 in
the CUP for Woodridge church should be added to Holy Names to be consistent also.
Loren then put up overheads of the exterior and interior areas.
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Present for Holy Name: Doug Cooley, building chairperson, Dave Bangasser, Dave
Wagner and Father Arnold Weber.
Vickie Murphy, 3025 Alvarado Lane No., Plymouth, said that Holy Name has not been a
good neighbor, there are rude parishioners, kids raise holy terror and on Sundays
cannot get out of the neighborhood because of the traffic - she wondered why there
could not be additional masses - she said that the Plymouth neighbors are taking the
brunt of this.
Arlene Arendt, 3055 Alvarado Lane, Plymouth, said that she agreed with Vickie on the
traffic - all of the Holy Name traffic uses Brockton. She said that she goes to St. Phillips
on County Road 6 and every Sunday they have a traffic policeman on Co. Rd. 6. She
said that is really needed here at Holy Name.
Elizabeth Weir asked where the driveway was on County Road 24. Loren pointed it out
on the overhead.
Doug Cooley said that the county is neutral on the entrances on Co. Rd. 24 - they agree
that the safest entrance is the westerly entrance of the two.
Frank Mignone asked about the closing of one of them.
V. Murphy said that the main flow of traffic is when church is letting out - no one stops to
let people into their driveways.
Marlene Frantzen, 3035 Alvarado Lane, Plymouth, said that they get all the lights from
the church and with the school buses they cannot get in or out of the neighborhood and
there is no privacy for them in their own yards.
V. Murphy said that the entire block (Brockton Lane) needs to be protection from the
church.
E. Weir asked if berming would address some of the issues.
Carolyn Smith said what about trees along the property owners across Brockton.
V. Murphy said we should have the option.
A. Arendt said that Brockton should be made wider.
C. Smith asked if it was possible to add an exit to County Road 24, closer to Brockton
than those that are already there.
L. Kohnen said that it would be up to the County to approve such an entrance.
Father Weber said that the city turned them down before for an exit to Co. Rd. 24.
C. Smith said that a policeman is needed there on Sundays and it would also solve
Brockton Lane problems if a Co. Rd. 24 exit was opened.
D. Cooley said they would be in favor of a Co. Rd. 24 entrance.
F. Mignone and L. Kohnen both said that a left turn lane would be needed to help with
the traffic.
A. Arendt said that Brockton is the only way in and out for many homes.
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C. Smith said she would like to know the history of accidents on Co. Rd. 24 and
Brockton. She also said any driveway would have to be wide enough to accommodate
the traffic.
Lenny Leuer asked if the church was agreeable to open discussion of a new access,
turn lanes, etc.
D. Cooley said yes.
Father Weber said we will be here a long time and we want to do this right.
L. Leuer wondered if it was appropriate to act on this application or wait until we have
an answer on a new entrance.
D. Cooley said let's continue with the application and we will start working with the
county.
L. Leuer said if this is contingent on access to Co. Rd. 24, if the county says no it is a
dead issue.
L. Kohnen said there are a lot of open issues - this can come back to the planning
commission if there will not be Co. Rd. 24 access.
C. Smith said we can go through the application tonight and if the county approves the
Co. Rd. 24 access it can go to the council, otherwise they will come back to our
December meeting.
D. Cooley said can't the council make the decision and Loren said that the council
wants us (planning commission) to deal with this.
Jerry Brost said that even with moving the entrance there still needs to be something to
protect the homeowners to the east.
D. Cooley said that if the church is willing to have an entrance on Co. Rd. 24, the
headlights will be gone, the traffic will be gone, then berming and visual screening on
the Brockton side should be more than substantial. He said it is hard to berm between
the pond and Brockton, maybe some landscaping and there is already a berm to the
south.
There was discussion of lighting - Loren stated that Woodridge Church outside lights
are on a timer.
V. Murphy said that Holy Name is lit up all night long.
J. Brost said if there is 0 candle power at the lot line can it be seen
L. Kohnen said you can see the light, but it will not measure on a light meter
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D. Cooley said they are concerned with safety of the neighborhood as well as our
property.
E. Weir asked how the church feels about the security lighting.
D. Cooley said their biggest concern is security of the building. He said first the city
wanted lights all around the building, now you are saying no
There was discussion of islands with trees in the new parking area - to be approved by
staff.
The question was asked on criteria for trees. There should be criteria so that everyone
is the same.
L. Kohnen said for them to come up with a plan and staff will approve or disapprove.
L. Leuer asked about the enlarged pond on the south side. He said there was
discussion in the past of kids being by it, etc. It was stated that with the vegetation
grown around it, it is not a problem.
There was further discussion of the pond, inlet, depth, etc. The depth of the water is
41/2'. Father Weber said kids that are there at night are not from the church, but from
residents.
L. Leuer asked if there was a letter in place for the increase in flow for sewer and water.
D. Cooley said there would be no new occupants and no new fixtures.
The applicant is to apply to the City of Plymouth and the Metropolitan Council
Wastewater division to determine if there will be additional SAC fees required. This
must be determined before any building permits are issued.
MOVED BY CAROLYN SMITH AND SECONDED BY ELIZABETH WEIR TO
RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AMENDMENT FOR
HOLY NAME OF JESUS CATHOLIC CHURCH AT 155 COUNTY ROAD 24 WITH THE
FOLLOWING CONDITIONS:
1. Building not to exceed a total of 88,000 square feet.
2. If county approves a new entrance on County Road 24, the Brockton Lane access is
to be closed. The police department is to be involved in the access issue.
3. All conditions of the existing conditional use permits will still be active.
4. Review and approval by the Minnehaha Watershed District.
5. Review and approval by city engineer of storm water calculations and water quality
and storage area calculations.
6. Construction specs for parking and driveways be approved by city engineer.
7. Building and site to meet building and fire coded.
8. Additional spruce trees be provided on the north side of the north parking area to
provide screening from residential properties - 2 rows of 6' Black Hills spruce, 12'
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o.c. - staggered - location dependent on location of access. Berming and
landscaping on Brockton to start south of the trees - location to be approved by staff.
9. No parking on Holy Name Drive, County Road 24 or Brockton Lane.
10.Additional landscaping within the parking area, islands with trees, to be approved by
staff - this is for the visual impact on neighbors
11.All landscaping and all areas not covered by hardcover must be seeded and
maintained. All landscaping must be well maintained and plant materials which die
must be replaced.
12. Security lighting shall be controlled by a light sensor. All other exterior lighting must
be placed on a timing device. No exterior lighting shall be permitted when the
building is not in use other than the exterior security lighting. Egress lighting shall
average .5 foot candle power at the building.
13.All garbage and recycling containers must be located inside a permanent enclosure
on a concrete pad with an exterior material compatible with the construction of the
main building.
14.All plans must be reviewed by the Medina chief of police.
15. There shall be no outside bells, speakers or amplified sound systems other than
ringing of the bell in the pylon which is limited to special occasions.
16.The buildings and grounds shall be used only for church -related activities. Special
events will require a special use permit, even though they are sponsored by the
Applicant.
17. Exterior building materials must meet city code requirements.
18.There may be no permanent residential use of the building being expanded.
19.Any sign constructed must meet city ordinance requirements.
20.All exterior lighting must be designed and installed so that the globe is recessed and
enclosed on all sides except the bottom and no light is cast directly on any other
property or public right-of-way. The lighting must be installed in accordande with the
plans submitted by the applicant and with the recommendations of the city staff.
Artificial light contribution at the property line must be limited to zero foot candles.
(see # 12 also)
21.Applicant to proved a letter of credit to be determined by city engineer for site
improvements.
22.A complete site plan must be provided to the city and approved by the staff and city
council before this conditional use permit is approved and final resolution is signed.
The site plan is hereby incorporated into and made a part of this conditional use
permit.
23.This conditional use permit may be reviewed annually or as needed to insure
compliance with all conditions set forth herein. Violation of any term of this
conditional use permit may result in the imposition of additional conditions or in
revocation of this conditional use permit.
24. The applicant must pay to the city an administrative fee in an amount sufficient to
reimburse the City for the cost of reviewing this application.
MOTION PASSED.
This will go to the city council if Hennepin County approves a new access to County
Road 24. If not, the applicant is to return to the planning commission for further review.
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6. THOMAS GUBBINS - 3212 PIONEER TRAIL - SUBDIVISION - PUBLIC
HEARING - 9:34 P.M.
Loren Kohnen read his memo to the planning commission and put up an overhead of
the area. He stated that the outlot is for those in the subdivision to have access to the
lake. He also stated that each lot must be provided with two 2 1/2" trees, placed in front
if possible.
Diane Viere, 4555 Pioneer Trail, said that she had two concerns: 1 - drainage - said that
the water is not draining properly. She said that the city had been working on the north
side of Pioneer, but it is still not working. She would like this issue addressed to be sure
that her property is not flooded - she wants the city to know that she is not crazy about
more drainage coming her way and 2 - is this development going to trigger commercial
development in the area - she was told no.
Mark Gronberg, surveyor for Mr. Gubbins, said that the drainage would be going toward
Lake Peter, but that they would work with Jim on the problem.
Lenny Leuer said that the ditches were reformed and the rest was opened when
Pioneer was upgraded.
Mary Belford, 4565 Pioneer Trail, asked if a builder had been selected.
Thomas Gubbins said that he is just selling lots.
Howard Nelson, owner of 3365 Highway 55, said that there is drainage on the west side
of his property and that there is a little creek there every spring.
M. Gronberg said that any increase from the roads will go to a storage pond.
There was talk of the ravine in the corner and the wooded area - drainage.
M. Belford said there is lots of water in the area, that one of her walls in her home was
collapsing because of it.
Frank Mignone asked about park dedication fees.
Bruce Workman asked if there would be any difference if the highway would take some
property.
M. Gronberg said that lot lines may have to be adjusted on the lots along Highway 55.
B. Workman asked if we were requiring an overlay for future sewered lots.
L. Kohnen said that might make sense if sewer comes to the area in the future.
Commissioner Kathy Cook left the meeting at 9:50 p.m.
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There was further discussion of using overlays to show the layout of the subdivision if
sewer was available.
L. Leuer said that he had a concern with the flag lot, Lot 5, Block 1: 1 - There is a power
line across the property - is there an easement here? He said on his property the
easement is 100' on either side of the line - if this is true here, neither the house or the
septic system could built in the easement area - applicant should get definition from the
power company on how big the easement is - Lenny stated that it was important to
know this information so that we don't get in a situation of having to give a variance for
septic sites and 2 - in the corner of this flag lot there is a big ravine and access will have
to go thru this ravine that is about 20' deep - there will be lots of trees lost for this
driveway and the outlot is also thru this ravine
M. Gronberg said this lot could be narrower at the lake and wider at the road.
Carolyn Smith asked if we could require a joint driveway for Lots 5 & 6.
M. Gronberg said that prospective owners will want to build as close to the lake as
possible.
B. Workman asked if it is necessary to get the power line easement defined before we
go any farther with this.
L. Leuer or make part of Loren's job to make sure after the easement is defined that
there is still a building site and septic sites available. He said we need to see the
topography of the area. He mentioned access for the lots, some of them from an
interior road and others from Pioneer. He asked about common driveways on Pioneer.
T. Gubbins said that three of the lots already have access to Pioneer.
L. Leuer said that our ordinance states that all lots in a development have a common
entrance. He said that because of the length of the road, no common driveways are
required.
B. Workman and F. Mignone both said that it is cleaner on larger lots to have individual
driveways.
L. Leuer said that Lot 3, Block 2, is the old home site and wondered if the old well was
still there and if so it needs to be sealed. How about the foundation and silos - will that
all stay there.
B. Workman said he felt that people that invest in the property will clean it up and if it is
not a health and/or safety issue, it is up to the property owner to do what they want.
L. Kohnen said it would be a safety issue if they are pit silos.
L. Leuer said someone could fall into the foundation and also wondered if there were
any old septic systems on the site. He also said that in walking the shoreline there was
a lot of debris from over the years - old Norge, bed springs, etc.
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C. Smith said that the illegal dumping should be cleaned up by the property owner.
B. Workman said that we are platting, not cleaning up the city - if a public safety issue
we can do it, but otherwise we shouldn't do it during this platting process when it has
nothing to do with this.
C. Smith said we required it be done by the property owner west of Foxberry and we
want to be consistent.
L. Leuer said that the underground cable along Highway 55 must be in the ROW
otherwise the easement should show up here.
M. Gronberg wanted to know if the park fee was cash or land - he also wondered if
there would be credit for the trail easement in the park fee and he was told no and that
the city required cash. He also asked about the road easement - is additional needed
on Chippewa and he was told if it was needed we would require it.
MOVED BY FRANK MIGNONE AND SECONDED BY BRUCE WORKMAN TO
RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE SUBDIVISION OF 95 ACRES INTO 10 LOTS
WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS:
1. Power line easement to be defined.
2. Block 2, Lots 1 and 2 both have lots of road frontage and may have individual
driveways.
3. Applicant to review lot lines so the impact of the driveway on Lot 5 be minimized for
tree loss.
4. Preliminary plat to be reviewed by MnDOT
5. Preliminary plat to be reviewed by the watershed district
6. 30' drainage easement to be given over the area on the north side of Pioneer
7. Proposed road with cul de sac be a private road and built to city standards with Lots
2,3,4,5, & 6, Block 1 having access from this road.
8. Drainage and utility easements be provided on all lot lines, over drainage ways,
ponding areas and along the shore of Peter Lake.
9. Park dedication fees due on all lots under 10 acres in size.
10. Two septic sites identified and protected on all lots.
11.10' trail easement be provided along Pioneer Trail and Chippewa road - this to be
done by separate instrument.
12. Proper road right-of-way for Chippewa, Pioneer and Highway 55 be provided.
13. Closure of well on Lot 3, Block 2 be certified by well specialist.
14. Foundation filled in on Lot 3, Block 2 to make sure that there is not a safety problem.
15.Outlot A be owned by association.
16. Each lot to be provided with two 2 1/2" trees.
17. No variances on the location of septic sites for Lot 5.
18.Overlay be provided showing 30,000 square foot lots.
19. Block 1, Lots 1 and 7 have access from Pioneer Trail.
MOTION PASSED.
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There was discussion of exterior lighting at the Holiday station on Highway 55 and
County Road 101.
7. MINUTES OF OCTOBER 13, 1998
The blanks were filled in that could not be determined by the tape.
Page 1 - Carolyn Smith's comment - add loud speakers.
Page 3, 3rd paragraph from end, change bearer to barrier in Jerry Brost's comment.
MOVED BY CAROLYN SMITH AND SECONDED BY SUSIE MACKAY TO APPROVE
THE MINUTES AS AMENDED.
MOTION PASSED
MOVED BY JERRY BROST AND SECONDED BY ELIZABETH WEIR TO ADJOURN.
MOTION PASSED.
Meeting adjourned at 10:50 p.m.
Planning and Zoning Assistant Date
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