Loading...
HomeMy Public PortalAbout11-12-2003PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES - NOVEMBER 12, 2003 PRESENT: Bill Loe, Ron Johnson, Jerry Brost, Elizabeth Weir, Lenny Leuer, Dick Picard, Mary Verbick and Marilyn Fortin, Also present Planning and Zoning Administrator Loren Kohnen, City Administrator Chad Adams, City Councilor Bruce Workman and Planning and Zoning Assistant Sandie Larson. ABSENT: Sharon Johnson 1. Chairperson Elizabeth Weir called the meeting to order at 7:02 p.m. Ms. Weir reminded everyone that the Planning Commission was a recommending body and that the City Council made the final decisions. MOVED BY DICK PICARD AND SECONDED BY BILL LOE TO ADD ITEM #6 TO THE AGENDA - PRESENTATION OF THE LAKE INDEPENDENCE DIAGNOSTIC FEASIBILITY REPORT. MOTION PASSED. 2. C & C INVESTMENTS, LLP - NORTH OF 1355 HAMEL ROAD - RE -ZONE TO BUSINESS PARK-PUD AND RE -PLAT TO 7 LOTS FOR MEDINA BUSINESS CENTER - PUBLIC HEARING Loren Kohnen read his memo to the planning commission and put up overheads of the proposal.. Loren said that Hennepin County sees no problems but has not received a letter from them yet. He pointed out on the overhead where the Jubert home was across Hamel Road.. Loren then put up an overhead of the buildings, elevations, etc. He stated the buildings will look like homes and that they meet the ordinance for building materials. Jerry Brost asked where the garage doors would be. L. Kohnen pointed them out on the overhead and stated that the landscaping and berms will hide them from the residential across the street. Loren said maybe Lot 6 that is shown on the plat should be an outlot. The public hearing was opened. Curt Swanson, C & C Investments, introduced his partner Chuck Johnson. He said that they were home builders currently building in Plymouth and Maple Grove. He said that they do a little commercial and he likes the uniqueness of this site and the 'townhouse' concept for the buildings. Mr. Swanson said they will move their offices, currently in Brooklyn Park, to one of the units, maybe keep a few more and sell the rest. He said that Lot 7 shown on the proposed plat, they would like to keep as a lot so they maintain control over it. There were not public comments. Ron Johnson asked if the buildings would be sprinkled. Planning Commission Minutes November 12, 2003 1 C. Swanson said no, that the size of the buildings do not require it. R. Johnson asked if he would add sprinklers if the city required him to do so. C. Swanson said it would be very cost prohibitive with a private well. L. Kohnen said that the building code does not require sprinklers because of the size of the buildings. He also said it would be very expensive with private well. Bruce Workman said that this site is in a sewered area, but that it is currently too far away to make it work for this site at this time. Marilyn Fortin asked who determines the size of the well for business property. L. Kohnen said the contractor, owner and well people. He said that a 4" well should be adequate here. Dick Picard asked Mr. Swanson what' condominiumizing' meant in his letter. C. Swanson said that was the wrong word. They are doing the individual lots so that they can sell the individual buildings with the lot underneath. D. Picard asked where the ponding was. Lenny Leuer showed Dick on the site plan where it was proposed. D. Picard asked the % of hardcover on the site. L. Kohnen said it is not 50%, maybe 25%. D. Picard asked how the wetland is determined when the wetland is on more than one parcel. L. Kohnen said that the surveyor delineates the wetland. Mary Verbick and Dick Picard questioned setbacks to wetlands. L. Kohnen explained that having a PUD gives some flexibility for setbacks. L. Leuer said that this site will have a private septic and when sewer and water does come to the area they will be assessed for it. He also said there will be a time limit for when they will have to hook up to the system. He asked Mr. Swanson if they understood that and he said yes. L. Leuer then wanted to know if a building could be put on a former leachate field. Lenny was asking about proposed Lot 7 which is where the mound system will be and when sewer and water comes to the area, they will want to put a building there. Planning Commission Minutes November 12, 2003 2 L. Kohnen said yes they can and he explained how it is done. L. Leuer said that the septic and well will have to be abandoned when sewer and water comes to the area. Mary Verbick wanted to know if there was a timeline for the sewer and water. L. Kohnen said it depends on development in the area. L. Leuer asked if dirt balance had been done. C. Swanson said they think it will be a little short and will need some dirt for the parking area. L. Leuer mentioned the landscaping/sod in the SW corner of the lot. He said he thought we had a requirement of no mowing up to the edge of wetlands. L. Kohnen said yes there is a buffer zone of 10', so the sod will have to stay back some. There was discussion on having a lot vs an outlot. B. Workman said that parking in an outlot should not be a problem. C. Swanson said he is o.k. with having what is marked Lot 6 being an outlot, but what is marked Lot 7 he would like to keep as a lot (so would become Lot 6). MOVED BY JERRY BROST AND SECONDED BY MARY VERBICK TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF RE -ZONING THE 5 ACRES NORTH OF HAMEL ROAD ACROSS FROM 1355 HAMEL ROAD FROM BUSINESS PARK TO BUSINESS PARK-PUD WITH THE FOLLOWING RECOMMENDATIONS: 1. A11 conditions of the city engineer 2. A11 conditions of the watershed district 3. A11 lighting must be downcast only with shoe box style fixtures. Photometric plan is to meet the lighting ordinance and plan to be provided to the city before a building permit is issued. 4. Park fee will be due on 6 lots. 5. The easterly berm to be lengthened 40' to the west and be landscaped. 6. Association rules be reviewed and approved by the city attorney 7. Sod around any wetland must be moved back at least 10' for a buffer area. MOTION PASSED. MOVED BY MARY VERBICK AND SECONDED BY DICK PICARD TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE PLAT OF 5.29 ACRES NORTH OF 1355 HAMEL ROAD INTO 6 LOTS AND 1 OUTLOT WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS: 1. All conditions of the city engineer 2. A11 conditions of the watershed district. 3. A11 conditions of Hennepin County Transportation Department MOTION PASSED. Planning Commission Minutes November 12, 2003 3 3. LAURENT LAND DEVELOPMENT - 60 EVERGREEN ROAD - SUBDIVISION OF 7+ ACRES TO 13 LOTS - PUBLIC HEARING Loren Kohnen read his memo to the Planning Commission and put up an overhead of the area. Loren said he had received a letter from Hennepin County transportation and they had no problem with the proposal. Ali from the Elm Creek Watershed also said that he had no problem with the proposal. Mary Verbick said that the existing home's driveway lines up with Linden and the new driveway for them is different. Loren said there was no problem with the way it was shown. Gary Laurent clarified that the people who own the existing house owned the entire lot and that is who they are purchasing from. Gary said there are 3 points he wanted to address : 1. - he said that they would like to stay with the 50 foot right-of-way although the city engineer states that it should be 60 feet. He said they feel 50 feet is enough because of the small number of homes; 2 - the engineer mentions an easement for Outlot A. Gary said it is not their intention to use that Outlot for access for the home on 101. It is there for future use; and 3 - the lift station is necessary for a few homes on the north side of the development and it is their hope that the city takes it over as a city owned and maintained lift station. L. Kohnen responded: 1 - Outlot A - we never expected there to be an easement over it; 2 - said that the 50 foot right-of-way has been discussed with the public works director and we will discuss it further at the city council meeting; 3 - will discuss the lift station further at the council meeting also. Mary Pat Burnes, 3850 Linden Drive West, said that they live right across Evergreen Road and wanted to know what type of homes and price range there would be. She also wanted to know where driveways would be. L. Kohnen said there would be no driveways onto Evergreen. G. Laurent said the homes would also be recessed down somewhat from Evergreen and we also will be putting in landscaping on the southern part of the development similar to what was done across Evergreen in Medina Highlands. Gary said the homes would be comparable to Wild Meadows across 101. Mons Teig, 3852 Linden Drive West, asked if they were 1/2 acre lots and Loren said that is pretty close. M. Burnes asked the time frame for the development. G. Laurent said if all goes well, they would start in the spring. Mary Verbick asked if the cul de sacs were o.k. with the fire department. Planning Commission Minutes November 12, 2003 4 L. Kohnen said there was no problem and also that there would be fire hydrants at each cul de sac. Jerry Brost asked if it was normal for a lift station to be a public improvement and Loren said yes. Lenny Leuer asked if there would be an association. G. Laurent said it was not their intention to have an association, but there will be architectural reviews. He said the only two builders would be Laurent and Bergeron Homes. He said there would be no need for an association as there is no public land. L. Leuer said that NURP ponds need service - who will be responsible? G. Laurent said there will be a full easement around it for access by the city. He said that most cities take over the ponds as part of their storm sewer system. L. Kohnen said in talking with Jim Dillman our public works director, yes we will need easements to take care of the pond. L. Leuer said the easement should be wide enough for access to the street. Lenny wanted to know if the existing house had the well and septic abandoned and Loren said yes. L. Leuer asked if a dirt balance had been done. G. Laurent said it will be slightly short and they will have to import some dirt for the streets. L. Leuer asked about the Met sewer line that was in the area and why could that not be used instead of having the lift station. L. Kohnen said they need approval from the Met Council to use it and Tom Kellogg has contacted them. Hopefully we will know if it can be used before the lift station will be needed. Bruce Workman said that the discussion at the council meeting will be directed on needing a lift station for such few homes. MOVED BY LENNY LEUER AND SECONDED BY JERRY BROST TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE SUBDIVISION AT 60 EVERGREEN ROAD WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS: 1. All plans to be reviewed by the Elm Creek Watershed District 2. All requirements of the city engineer 3. Any requirements of Hennepin County Transportation Depaitinent 4. Easements around NURP pond and to road for maintenance 5. Planning commission approves a 50 foot road ROW instead of 60 feet 6. Lift station questions to be answered. 7. Park dedication fees due on 12 lots, amount to be determined MOTION PASSED. Planning Commission Minutes November 12, 2003 5 4. CONCEPT PLAN REVIEW - HAMEL BANK Paul Meyers, Architects, Inc. said that he was very pleased to be on board with the bank. He said that the bank has been part of the Hamel area for many years and the bank is excited about the new ideas and developments in the Uptown Hamel area. Paul explained the overhead, showing where the current bank is and the house next to it. He said this would be a 1 story addition with basement which is like the current bank. The new addition would become the bank and then the old part would be renovated for lease space. He said it would be prohibitive to renovate where they are and stay in business. He said the site issues are: 1. Removing the existing house; 2. Removing the existing drive thru in back and relocate to east side of building, which will improve traffic flow; 3. Plaza development in the NE corner on Hamel road and also in back between the 2 buildings; 4. Parking exceeds the requirements; 5. Existing garage is the 'old' telephone building; 6. Addition in line with existing front and back; 7. Elevations accomplish the feel for 'Old Town' downtown, there will be a step fa9ade and a full width canopy; 8. Materials on the north and east, brick up to canopy and then colonial (flat) siding with generous amount of glass on the north side, west elevation will have the stucco removed and add 2 types of siding, lap on lower portion and colonial (flat) on top; 9. Upgrade garage with similar siding products as main building. Marilyn Fortin asked about the height of the building. P. Meyer said a couple of feet taller than the existing. Bruce Workman asked why the roof line is not the same all the way across. P. Meyer said to break up the fa9ade. B. Workman said there is not a lot of room between the street and the bank. He said that the council had talked about decorative street lighting and also boulevard trees. He said he would like to stay with our concepts in this 1st big project in Uptown Hamel. Elizabeth Weir said she would like to see a porch in front. Dick Picard said didn't we have some 'concept' pictures in the ordinance. Marilyn Fortin took out the pictures she had and showed Dick. P. Meyer said there is a picture in the bank of a 1914 streetscape and in that picture there are 3 buildings with porches and one has the canopy like we are proposing. L. Weir said she really would like them to consider a porch. Lenny Leuer said he didn't know about a porch, but 2 separate areas with pillars by the entrances. He said a canopy all the way across could run into problems with lights and trees. Planning Commission Minutes November 12, 2003 6 P. Meyer said that their goal was to have the front to the street but not encroach on the street. L. Weir said the west elevation is so blank, could there be some landscaping or something. P. Meyer said the existing wall is pre -cast concrete and it would be very expensive to cut windows in. He said we could probably have fake windows. L. Weir said faux windows with window boxes would be very interesting. L. Leuer said the existing building with the porch (the one to come down) is the look we wanted. Mary Verbick asked if it was possible to have the addition stepped back some (with a porch). Rick Traut, bank president, said they feel they need to be a leader in the development of Hamel and appreciate the comments from the Planning Commission. He said we will incorporate the ideas and come back. He said the bank is a focal point and it needs to set the standard. B. Workman said the primary goal of the Uptown Hamel ordinance is street appeal. He said we prefer dramatic and what we are looking at is too antiseptic. We are looking for porches, trees, etc. There was more discussion of setting the new addition back from the street some and to allow for a porch. P. Meyer said that in looking at the building design. The bank was looking at safety and security. He said these are both big issues with the bank. Paul said that Shorty liked the building all in one line so that there were no blank corners, etc. M. Fortin said coming up Sioux Drive this is the building that will be seen lst. She said there are other 2 story buildings in the area and couldn't they have the height of their building more like the others. P. Meyer said they would have to restructure the roof on the existing bank to make the addition taller and that is very expensive. He said that if they do this project they would start in the spring, so when we come back it will be for a site plan review and not another concept review. The main points that the Planning Commission came up with was the west side being so blank and a porch in the front. 5. DISCUSSION OF CONCEPT PLAN REVIEW PROCEDURES. Chad Adams said that the materials required for concept plan review will be included in the draft ordinance that the planning commission will review at their December meeting. He said the items that should be discussed are having a time frame allowed for a developer to talk and should the number of concept reviews be limited to 2 per meeting. Planning Commission Minutes November 12, 2003 7 At first thought the planning commission thought 2 was plenty. Lenny Leuer said if more than 2 come in we may need to think about having more meetings. Loren Kohnen said it should be 1st come, 1st served. Mary Verbick said if more than 2 come in we may need more at a meeting or have a special meeting. C. Adams said that there could be 4 concept reviews at the December meeting, with many of them being comprehensive plan and zoning changes. Chad said that if the planning commission and city council flatly say that we're not changing the comprehensive plan, then less will come in for concept reviews. L. Kohnen said if there are 4 reviews at a meeting we will have to hold them tightly to the time line. C. Adams said of the four possible for December all would be comprehensive plan changes or zoning changes and one is a big box development. Elizabeth Weir said that we should work in as many as we can with the agenda we have for the month. There was discussion of time limits and also that the planning commission should say so if they do not like a concept. The consensus was to leave the time limit in as stated. L. Leuer said he felt that #2 - ii was very important, having a one page staff report on the concept. Lenny asked Chad and Loren if a PUD was applied for in IP and BP zoning, if that was a major legislative change and Chad said yes. 6. REPORT ON LAKE INDEPENDENCE DIAGNOSTIC FEASIBILITY REPORT Dick Picard passed out copies of the Lake Independence Diagnostic Feasibility Report that was prepared by Three Rivers Park. He said that this has been an on going study that was started in 1996 in conjunction with the Park District and LICA. Dick went over parts of the report and stated that Lake Independence was an impaired lake. He said the study identifies problems and what can be done about them. The last pages of the report has the options and what can be done. Bruce Workman said that an education plan and working with people would work better then an ordinance. He said try an education plan first. He stated that the Medina Horse Association has been rejuvenated. 7. OTHER ISSUES Planning Commission Minutes November 12, 2003 8 Bruce Workman stated that when the Business Park zoning was adopted it was planned for that area to have sewer and water. The application tonight is under utilization of the land, but he realizes that it would not be practical to bring the sewer to that one piece. He said we need to do staging of the sewer like we have done on the east side of the city. Bruce said we probably will do some changes to the comprehensive plan. Dorothy Theis, Corcoran, was in the audience and said that city government is very important to her and she goes to meetings and reads all the minutes. She stated that she had been on both Corcoran's planning commission and city council. 8. MINUTES OF OCTOBER 14, 2003 There were some typographical errors corrected. MOVED BY MARY VERBICK AND SECONDED BY JERRY BROST TO APPROVE THE MINUTES AS CORRECTED. MOTION PASSED. MOVED BY MARY VERBICK AND SECONDED BY BILL LOE TO ADJOURN MOTION PASSED. Meeting adjourned at 9:52 p.m. Planning and Zoning Assistant Date Planning Commission Minutes November 12, 2003 9