HomeMy Public PortalAbout11-30-2004PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES — NOVEMBER 30, 2004
PRESENT: BILL LOE, DICK PICARD, ELIZABETH WEIR, MARILYN FORTIN, RON
JOHNSON AND LENNY LEVER. ALSO PRESENT CITY
ADMINISTRATOR CHAD ADAMS, CITY PLANNER ROSE LORSUNG,
INTERIM PLANNER SARAH SCHIELD, COUNCIL MEMBER BRUCE
WORKMAN AND PLANNING AND ZONING ASSISTANT SANDIE
LARSON
ABSENT: MARY VERBICK
1. CALL TO ORDER
Chairperson Elizabeth Weir called the meeting to order at 7:02 p.m.
2 INTRODUCTION OF ROSE LORSUNG — CITY PLANNER
Chad Adams introduced Rose Lorsung, the City's new planner. He said that Sarah Schield will
be staying on for the existing projects and most likely even further as the planning consultant.
3. PUBLIC FORUM
There were no comments.
4. DARREL A. FARR DEVELOPMENT CO. — 36/42 HAMEL ROAD — LOT
COMBINATION/PRELIMINARY PLAT AND FINAL PLAT AND SITE PLAN
REVIEW FOR A RETAIL/CONDO DEVELOPMENT — PUBLIC HEARING
CONTINUED FROM NOVEMBER 9, 2004
Sarah Schield went over her planning report. She said she will start with saying that staff
recommends tabling the public hearing because the application is incomplete. She said staff felt
it was important to give the planning commission the current plans for discussion. Sarah said
she will review the staff comments and that the applicant was present and would give a slide
presentation.
S. Schield reiterated that this was a request for approval of a preliminary plat, final plat and lot
combination to allow for the redevelopment at 36/42 Hamel Road into a 28 unit for -sale
condominium project with approximately 2500 square feet of retail space on the 1st floor. She
said the site currently consists of a 2 1/2 story single family home and a 1 1/2 story home with a
detached garage. The site is zoned UH (Uptown Hamel) and is also guided UH. Because the
public hearing was scheduled for this special meeting, the applicant did try to get a complete
application to the city in time but was unable to do so. Staff has prepared a review on what has
been submitted to allow for discussion at tonight's meeting. Sarah then went thru the application
and said staff s recommendation is to open and hold the public hearing and continue the public
hearing to another meeting due to the incomplete data provided.
S. Schield said that the re -development of this area is complicated because of public
improvements being worked on in the area; boulevard trees, sidewalks, etc. She said we have to
Planning Commission Minutes
November 30, 2004
1
keep in mind that this is a complex application. The issues that staff sees: 1 — Refuse containers
— cannot be outside at any time; 2 — hard surface — no issue; 3 — landscaping — we need a better
look at this; and 4 — parking issue — the planning commission should discuss this. Regulations
require 73 spaces and 62 are proposed. She said the Uptown Hamel ordinance is flexible on this.
Elizabeth Weir asked if the Uptown Hamel code talks about 1 underground space per unit, why
is the parking code in the main part of the code talked about.
S. Schield said because there is also retail space here, but staff will look at this. She said staff
has asked the applicant for more details on the parking. She also said the public works director
and engineer are checking on the drain tile, inside and out. Issue #5 — Setbacks — all must be
identified on the plans; 6 — building materials — plans shown do meet the requirements; 7 — Site
lighting — plan provided was insufficient for review; 8 — signage — none was included with the
application. This will need to be reviewed; 9 — Staff will look further on the 10' requirement for
driveways from the side lot line — if unable to meet, the applicant will need a variance. Staff
feels more detail is needed for the planning commission and city council to review. Sarah said
the planning commission should see the same plans that the city council will see so comments
are being made on the same plan.
Ron Johnson wanted to know if the applicant knew before tonight what is needed.
S. Schield said the applicant received an incomplete letter after the last planning commission
meeting. There were some changes. She said there has not been a whole lot of time in the last
two weeks for review for staff or the applicant.
Ben Schmidt, Farr Development, gave a slide presentation and put up a chronology of Farr's
involvement with Medina in Uptown Hamel. He said that plans were originally submitted on
October 12th and staff has done a good job in turning things around. He said on October 14th
some additional plans were submitted. Ben then showed some slides of early Hamel.
B. Schmidt then showed slides of the proposed Rond Point (French for roundabout) — he said this
would be a 28 unit for sale condos with about 2500 square feet of retail. He talked of the design
and showed the site plan. He said they have acquired some of the railroad property for help in
access. He said the property was platted as Eugene Drive and that they will improve this for
access from the back. Ben said the trash is stored inside; he showed the landscaping and talked
of the exterior building materials.
Lois Lillie, 305 Cherry Hill Bay, said she likes the proposal. She wondered if the City had put
together a package on the look for Uptown Hamel. She thought there should be something so all
the developers have the same look as this is the gateway to Medina. She wondered what look
Medina wanted.
E. Weir said we had originally talked about an `Old town' theme and when we re -wrote the
ordinance we took that out. We wanted something stronger architecturally looking for quality.
She said there is not one developer for the entire area, so there can be varied designs which lend
character to the area.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 30, 2004
2
Chad Adams said the Uptown Hamel ordinance has removed the "old town' building standards.
He said we do have a guide plan for building materials for retail, residential, etc. He said we do
not get into specific designs like some cities that send RFP's to developers for an entire area.
Medina has decided not to do that. He said as far as Target is concerned the City has a great deal
of discretion and the intent of the City is to do something with streetscapes and facades to
compliment Medina.
Bruce Workman, Medina councilmember, said Target is not a forgone conclusion. There is a
ways to go.
E. Weir said Medina wanted something more original, not a cookie cutter look. She said we
started on the Uptown Hamel ordinance in 1998.
C. Adams said public improvements, lights, etc., will have a unified look.
Phil Kariniemi, Airmist at 52 Hamel Road, said he is glad to see the Farr building going up. He
wondered if there was any thought of the side that faces them, any landscaping?
E. Weir said the ordinance has come to bite us, with the blank wall that you can see from the
street.
P. Kariniemi said we can work together with Farr. He said the proposal is a nice looking
building.
Bill Loe had no comments.
Dick Picard said this has been an excellent presentation. He did have some concerns: 1 —
parking — he said he would not like not being able to park there if he lived there and 2 —
landscaping is important and did not get a great deal of information from the applicant on this.
B. Schmidt said they show 54 parking stalls underground which is 2 for each of 26 units and 1
each for 2 of the units.
S. Schield said staff will check the ordinance on parking vs. the Uptown Hamel ordinance.
B. Schmidt said they interpreted the ordinance at least 1 stall underground per unit and surface
parking for the retail. He said the Uptown Hamel ordinance is silent on commercial parking,
although they have provided some off street parking.
E. Weir said there will be some foot traffic. It will not be all drive up.
B. Workman asked about guest parking.
B. Schmidt said the retail parking will be guest parking at night and the off street parking is for
both uses.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 30, 2004
3
D. Picard said he sees parking as a problem and also need to see some more landscaping details.
B. Schmidt said we have taken this project very seriously. We did not want to replicate Maple
Grove and instead of pretending to be an old town, we will be an `old town'. He said the
streetscape will unify everything, lights, etc. Ben said there is not a lot of room for landscaping.
He also said the City should decide on the kind of sidewalks, street lights, etc. they want for the
area.
E. Weir asked Chad about the public street improvements.
C. Adams said the ordinance has been adopted and maybe this could be discussed with the city
council.
E. Weir said this is hard on a developer when there is no clear direction.
Marilyn Fortin said she likes the building. She asked about Eugene Street and would it be
extended to the north.
B. Schmidt said a little to the north. He said the street is already platted and they will work with
the City on that.
M. Fortin asked if it is still called Eugene Street going east.
B. Schmidt said they see that as our driveway.
C. Adams said the city engineer addressed this access and asked if we should continue this street
to the east. Chad said it still needs to be worked out whether this would be public or private.
M. Fortin asked Ben how much property they bought to the north.
B. Schmidt said all but 50' from the center line of the RR tracks. He said this did not include the
property in the back of the Airmist back lot.
M. Fortin asked about a retaining wall.
B. Schmidt said north of the road it does not need it. He said the natural tree cover will hold the
hill and a small 2'or so wall might be needed a little to the west of the building.
M. Fortin said she is concerned of what it will look like from Highway55. She also asked how
wide the road would be.
B. Schmidt said 22'. He said their intent was to maintain the vegetation that was there. He said
there is a type of material under the grass that allows emergency vehicles to drive on it.
Planning Commission Minutes 4
November 30, 2004
R. Johnson said this does not look like an appropriate fit for Medina. He said he would like the
`prairie' look for Hamel. He said it also seems like the retail portion is too small, that he would
like to see more retail on the bottom floor. Ron also said it seems to be short of parking outside
for guests and retail and maybe could use some of the parking for the Gallery building.
B. Schmidt said they are proposing 2500 square feet of retail and small retailers run about 1200
square feet. He said they have other plans for the future that have more retail. He said the reality
is until we have some people living here we cannot support retail. For more retail we need the
housing to make it feasible. Ben said the antique building is important for the area.
R. Johnson wanted to know how the water run off would be handled, especially on the north
side.
B. Schmidt said the city has planned a storm water line in the back and we will have a catch
basin that ties into it.
R. Johnson wanted to know when that would be done.
B. Workman said the pond is done and the rest should be done soon.
R. Johnson wanted to know the rationale for the blank walls on the west side of the building.
B. Schmidt said because the wall faces the Airmist building and if we had windows they could
not add on to their building. He said we could certainly work with the city to do something, fake
windows, etc.
Lenny Leuer wanted to know if the RR parcel would remain under separate title.
B. Schmidt said yes.
L. Leuer asked about access to the east and how far to the east.
B. Schmidt said they might acquire the property to the east and then we could extend the access
to that property.
L. Leuer said he is concerned that Plymouth traffic could use that road.
B. Schmidt said the RR land goes beyond 22 Hamel Road and then extends to Highway 55.
L. Leuer said he is concerned with the Medina/Plymouth border. He told Ben he wondered what
they will do with the Plymouth portion of the property.
B. Schmidt said they would own it all because the RR wanted to sell it all.
L. Leuer said part of the property goes into Plymouth and that worries me. He wonders what
will happen.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 30, 2004
5
B. Workman said we will not let a street go there.
B. Schmidt said there are no plans to do anything on the Plymouth portion of the RR property.
B. Workman said plat the RR property into 2 parcels, 1 in Medina and 1 in Plymouth.
L. Leuer asked if construction details for the road were part of application.
B. Schmidt said he is not going to design the street; he will leave that to the city engineers. He
said he will help when determination is made on the street, but does not feel he should have to
construct the street.
L. Leuer said details (of the street) should be part and parcel of the application.
B. Schmidt said to give us some direction.
C. Adams said the engineer said the application should show some details of access.
B. Schmidt said he wants to know what the city wants before he designs it.
L. Leuer wanted to know if the RR property was included in the hardcover calculations.
S. Schield said no. She said we are looking for a cleaner application to better determine some of
the answers.
L. Leuer said there is the solid wall looking east and this needs some design work.
There was further discussion on this wall.
E. Weir said how about more of a historic name for the project.
B. Schmidt said we have to be careful because some people do not like some names. We tried
for the heritage without having something distasteful to some. He said it is important to know
more details on: 1- road; 2 — landscaping plan, how much more detail does the city want.
S. Schield said staff needs to work with the applicant on items such as trees, parking, etc - - She
said the Uptown Hamel ordinance says that any space not a hard surface is considered
landscaping. She said their plan should be o.k., but staff needs to clarify.
E. Weir asked Chad and Sarah if we can give some latitude on the sidewalk and curb knowing it
will all be rebuilt in the next 4 years.
S. Schield said we feel sidewalk is important. We need to work out the details even though it
may change in the future.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 30, 2004
6
B. Schmidt said they will not build without a sidewalk.
E. Weir told Ben to be sure and meet with staff
S. Schield recommended that this be tabled to the 1-11-05 planning commission meeting.
B. Schmidt said it seems the biggest thing missing is the road design and we should be able to go
over everything with staff right away. He said they would rather not wait until January.
MOVED BY RON JOHNSON AND SECONDED BY MARILYN FORTIN TO TABLE THE
DARREL FARR APPLICATION FOR 36/42 HAMEL ROAD TO THE 12-14-04 PLANNING
COMMISSION MEETING.
MOTION PASSED.
5. DARREL A. FARR DEVELOPMENT CO. —185 HAMEL ROAD — SITE PLAN
REVIEW FOR A SENIOR CONDO DEVELOPMENT — PUBLIC HEARING
CONTINUED FROM NOVEMBER 9, 2004
Sarah Schield went over her planning report stating that this application is for an 18 unit for sale
condo project for seniors called Argent Park. This had been continued from the November 9tn
planning commission meeting. She said this is a site plan review and if the applicant meets all
the requirements of the ordinance the city must approve this.
S. Schield said this is located in the Uptown Hamel zoning district and staff has deemed this
application to be incomplete and the 60 day time frame does not start until the application is
complete. She said at this time staff recommends that this be tabled.
S. Schield then went into parts of the application:
1. Lot size — meets requirement;
2. Refuse — meets requirement;
3. Impervious coverage — meets requirement;
4. Landscaping — needs some clarification;
5. Rain gardens — needs further detail particularly the one close to Hamel Road;
6. Parking — staff will look at the code for Uptown Hamel and the other parking regulations
for requirements. She said Uptown Hamel does allow for flexibility, but this is for
seniors 55+ and many active seniors have 2+ cars. She said parking requirements can be
reduced if assisted living, etc.;
7. Setbacks — these must be identified on the site plan;
8. Building materials — meet requirement;
9. Lighting — need further details
10. Technical issues — city engineer outlined in his report including driveway grade and
water main issues
S. Schield said there are still quite a few details to be handled and staff is requesting further
information. She said staff recommends the tabling of this application.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 30, 2004
7
Elizabeth Weir said when the city re -did the Uptown Hamel ordinance she assumed the setbacks
were included. She said she does not agree we need a variance for the driveway as the Uptown
Hamel setbacks would trump the driveway code. She did mention the grade of the driveway.
Ben Schmidt said areas greater than 5% had been reviewed by the city engineer for adequate
access not in the steep grade.
Bruce Workman said the storm water down the driveway is an issue.
Lenny Leuer said he has 2 topics: 1 — double frontage lot — why are we talking access from
Hamel Road and not Mill Drive.
B. Schmidt said Mill is not there and it is difficult to make it work based on the lot.
L. Leuer said he finds the retaining wall next to the lot line very unsettling. He said also the
drainage and he questioned who upgrades the roads (Mill and Eugene). He said he is thinking
access would be better from Mill Drive. Lenny's 2nd topic: He said there is inconsistency on the
plans with the setback for the 3rd story.
B. Schmidt showed a couple of alternatives — he said the 3rd story is stepped back.
L. Leuer said that does not show on the plans that we received.
B. Schmidt said their intention is to step it (3rd story) back. He said the drawings are not clear.
L. Leuer said the side elevation and floor plan also does not show it stepped back. He also said
he has not heard a good reason not to access this building from Mill Drive.
B. Schmidt explained why he could not do that.
There was further discussion about the access to the building.
E. Weir asked Ben if he could bring a rendering on how the driveway will look and Ben said yes
he would do that.
Ron Johnson said he has the same concerns as Lenny on access. He said the back (Mill Drive)
access is more appropriate. He also wondered if there was enough parking for guests — he felt
the plan was short on parking spaces.
B. Schmidt said they will show some parking on the street. He said there are 23 stalls for 18
units. He said they see the market for this building for older than 55 — more likely early to mid
70's.
There was further discussion on parking.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 30, 2004
8
Marilyn Fortin questioned on getting out of the building from the south. She wondered how you
would get to the parking.
B. Schmidt showed her on the site plan.
E. Weir asked Lenny about old gas tanks on the site.
M. Fortin said there could be and there could also be wells and fuel oil tanks.
B. Schmidt said their engineers have done their work. He said they capped the well when they
bought the property. He said the fuel oil tanks have been removed from this site and also the
36/42 Hamel Road site.
M. Fortin said between the turn around and sidewalk is where the gas tanks were. She said there
was also a pit in the garage.
B. Schmidt said they have not turned anything up.
Dick Picard said the parking concerns him and also need more detail on the landscaping. He also
wanted to know who would maintain the rain gardens.
B. Schmidt said there will be a condo association. He said this will be a great asset to Medina.
M. Fortin talked about parking. She said this is right across from the church and they have a big
parking lot. She said there are many church people looking at these units.
B. Schmidt said shared parking is vital to the development of Uptown Hamel. He said they have
talked to the church about doing parking lots together. (Farr's building next to the church and the
church parking lot)
Bill Loe said he also shares the concerns about parking. He asked Ben what he envisioned the
price of the condos to be.
B. Schmidt said in the $220's with options, etc.
B. Loe asked about size.
B. Schmidt said there are 7 different floor plans, but they are all close in size. He said there will
be 3 smaller units that would be more affordable.
There was discussion about affordable housing.
B. Loe asked about completion of the project.
B. Schmidt said they would like to start before a hard freeze and if they could start in January it
would be about 8 months to complete.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 30, 2004
9
B. Loe asked how long to market with 70-75% capacity.
B. Schmidt said when they open about 50% is sold. The rest usually sells over the next 4-5
months.
E. Weir talked of landscaping in the back of the building. She said could you maybe look at Mill
Drive being developed.
B. Schmidt said they will plant back there.
MOVED BY RON JOHNSON AND SECONDED BY MARILYN FORTIN TO TABLE THE
DARREL FARR APPLICATION FOR 185 HAMEL ROAD TO DECEMBER 14, 2004.
MOTION PASSED.
6. MINUTES OF NOVEMBER 9, 2004
There were a number of clerical and spelling corrections.
MOVED BY BILL LOE AND SECONDED BY RON JOHNSON TO APPROVE THE
MINUTES AS CORRECTED.
MOTION PASSED.
7. PLANNER'S REPORT
Sarah Schield said staff has been very busy. She said for the December 14th meeting there will
be a variance request for a single family home in the Independence Beach area, the Cudd project,
rezoning/preliminary plat and possibly Ryan and Farr.
Bill Loe asked if Ryan and Farr would be on the agenda if application is not completed.
Chad Adams said we have the discretion to pull them from the agenda.
S. Schield said she foresees Ryan and Farr not being ready for the December meeting.
Elizabeth Weir said could we consider 2 meetings.
S. Schield said a special meeting could be considered.
Rose Lorsung said for the January 11, 2005 planning commission meeting, Gramercy may be
back. They did not record their final plat and they may have to go thru the process again.
C. Adams said the city's water treatment plant may also be on the agenda.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 30, 2004
10
E. Weir asked Chad when they should discuss the public improvements in Uptown Hamel.
C. Adams said we will have to complete a design booklet and see what we have. Street fixtures,
sidewalks, etc. He said money is the problem — assessments? TIF? City pay?. He said it is
difficult to make those decisions.
R. Lorsung said Farr should get some conformity in design.
There was further discussion on sidewalks, etc. and giving developer's some sense of what to
look for.
MOVED BY DICK PICARD AND SECONDED BY RON JOHNSON TO ADJOURN.
MOTION PASSED.
Meeting adjourned at 9:50 p.m.
Planning and Zoning Assistant Date
Planning Commission Minutes
November 30, 2004
11