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HomeMy Public PortalAbout2023_tcwsmin0227Council Work Session February 27, 2023 Council Chamber, 25 West Market Street, Leesburg, Virginia, 7:00 p.m. Mayor Kelly Burk presiding. Council Members Present: Ara Bagdasarian, Todd Cimino -Johnson, Zach Cummings, Neil Steinberg, Patrick Wilt, and Mayor Kelly Burk. Council Members Absent: Kari Nacy. Staff Present: Town Manager Kaj Dentler, Town Attorney Christopher Spera, Deputy Town Manager Keith Markel, Utilities Director Amy Wyks, Public Works and Capital Projects Director Renee LaFollette, Finance and Administrative Services Director Clark Case, Finance and Administrative Services Deputy Director/Treasurer Lisa Haley, Parks and Recreation Director Rich Williams, Human Resources Director Josh Didawick, Information Technology Director Jakub Jedrzejczak, Plan Review Director Bill Adman, Economic Development Director Russell Seymour, Leesburg Interim Police Chief Vanessa Grigsby, Planning and Zoning Deputy Director Brian Boucher, Parks and Recreation Deputy Director Kate Trask, Emergency Management Coordinator Alex Fitch, Police Captain Jamie Sanford, Police Lieutenant Daniel Troxell, Finance and Administrative Services Management and Budget Officer Cole Fazenbaker, and Clerk of Council Eileen Boeing. Minutes prepared by Deputy Clerk of Council Corina Alvarez. AGENDA ITEMS 1. Item for Discussion a. Proposed Budget for Fiscal Year 2024 - General Fund Key Enhancements and Capital Projects Including Downtown Closures Mr. Fazenbaker gave a presentation on proposed General Fund key enhancements, Ms. LaFollette on the proposed Capital Improvements Program, and Ms. Trask on the Extended Sidewalk Dining Program. Council and staff discussed the items. Council Member Bagdasarian asked staff to research the impact of moving the W&OD Trail Lighting forward in the Capital Improvements Program. It was the consensus of Council to have staff research the impact of moving this CIP item forward Mayor Burk requested information for lighting Raflo Park and Georgetown Park. Staff stated that the cost for lighting both parks is $230K. Mayor Burk requested to continue budget discussions during the Work Session. There was no Council consensus to proceed with budget discussions. 1 Page Council Work Session February 27, 2023 Mr. Dentler requested Council direction on which option to pursue for the extended sidewalk dining program. It was the consensus of Council to continue with a Fridays only extended sidewalk dining program (Option 2) 2. Additions to Future Council Meetings a. None. 3. Adjournment On a motion by Council Member Cummings, seconded by Council Member Bagdasarian, the meeting was adjourned at 8:•14 p.m. Clerk of Council 2023_tcwsmin0227 21 Page February 27, 2023 — Town Council Work Session (Note: This is a transcript prepared by Town staff based on the video of the meeting. It may not be entirely accurate. For greater accuracy, we encourage you to review the video of the meeting that is on the Town's Web site — www.leesburgva.gov or refer to the approved Council meeting minutes. Council meeting videos are retained for three calendar years after a meeting per Library of Virginia Records Retention guidelines.) Mayor Kelly Burk: I'd like to open tonight's Town Council Work Session for February 27, 2023. Tonight, Council Member Nacy will not be joining us. She's not well. She's ill at this point, but, hopefully, she'll be here tomorrow. The first item and only item tonight for discussion is the Proposed Budget. We are going to do it by sections. The first section that we're going to be looking being presented is the Key Enhancements. I believe, Cole, you're doing this one. Cole Fazenbaker: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Council Members, members of the public. My name is Cole Fazenbaker. I'm the Management Budget Officer for the Town and tonight's the first budget work session for the Fiscal Year 2024 Budget. First, we're going to go over the key enhancements mainly in the General Fund. Then in the Capital Improvements Program, Renee is going to discuss and then Kate Trask, the Deputy Director of Parks and Rec, is going to speak about the Extended Sidewalk Dining Program. Mayor Burk: Did Mr. Dentler want to start this off? Okay, sorry. Kaj Dentler: Sorry, we changed. Mayor Burk: Sorry to interrupt. Cole Fazenbaker: I may have jumped the gun. The first key enhancement is related to public safety. The goal is really recruitment and retention in the Police Department. It's an $873K investment. What it does is increase the salary for all police officers and dispatchers 5% and then an additional 5% if the officer or dispatchers has at least two years of service with the Town and it would also increase the starting salary from $62K to $65K along with other jurisdictions regionally which is about 5% increase. Second key enhancement is a safety and risk manager, and the goal is to support Town -wide safety practices and risk management. The investment is $129K. An initial work plan will be focused on the water and sewer plants more in the industrial setting. Sixty percent of the initial funding will come from the Utilities Fund and 40% from the General Fund. The third key enhancement is for Veterans Park Staffing and Equipment and that's an investment of $349,600. The goal was to staff the new Veterans Park with two new groundskeeper positions and the cost is $46,400 and that's for three months in fiscal year 2024. The outfitting includes truck, picnic tables, trash receptacles, et cetera. A portion of it is funded with Unassigned Fund Balance so it's not associated with the real estate tax rate. With that, I'll open it up to questions. Mayor Burk: Did I miss the police IT system administrator? Cole Fazenbaker: I hit the button too quickly. Yes, so the second one is related to public safety as well. That's an investment of $129,500. That's really to support a second IT position in the 911 Centre as redundancy and also mainly focus on the CAD RMS, which is the Computer -Aided Dispatch Records Management System and also the other equipment related to public safety in the Police Department. Mayor Burk: All Right, These Are The Key Enhancements For This Particular Budget. Cole Fazenbaker: Correct. Mayor Burk: At this point, this is what Mr. Dentler is proposing. Cole Fazenbaker: Correct. Mayor Burk: Okay, are there any questions that anybody has at this point? Yes, Mr. Cummings. Page 11 February 27, 2023 Council Member Zach Cummings: Yes, thank you. On the risk and safety position is there any sense of what savings that position would bring the Town as far as insurance policies or anything like that? Cole Fazenbaker: A portion of the position will be involved with the risk management and, hopefully, workers' compensation is an expense to the Town, especially in the operating budget. We don't have exact numbers, but the hope is that it'll address that and lower the cost. I know we've had discussions with our risk management consultant, and they're pleased to hear that this is in the proposed budget, and we would realize some savings with that position. Mayor Burk: Is there anyone else? I do have a question about the police IT system administrator. I know that the Police Department has a great amount of FOIA requests. I believe it's Officer Drogin has to go through all of the tapes, and it takes hours and hours of his time. Would this person also be available for his assistance? Vanessa Grigsby: [inaudible] Mayor Burk: Sure. Vanessa Grigsby: Good evening. No, they will not. We have a public affairs specialist job position that was just announced later this week, I believe, or earlier. Josh? Josh Didawick: Earlier this week. Vanessa Grigsby: Earlier this week. Mayor Burk: That's not part of this budget? Vanessa Grigsby: No. Mayor Burk: It was previous? Vanessa Grigsby: Yes. Mayor Burk: Okay, I was wondering where it was and why we hadn't seen it yet. I feel sorry for the poor man that has to sit through - Vanessa Grigsby: No. We took one of our sworn positions and converted it to civilian. Mayor Burk: Converted it over. Vanessa Grigsby: Yes. Mayor Burk: Okay, that makes sense then. Vanessa Grigsby: Okay, thank you. Mayor Burk: Thank you very much. All right, no other questions? Then we'll go to the next one, which is the Capital Improvements Program. Yes. Renee LaFollette: Good evening, Madam Mayor, and Members of Council. Proposed '24 to '29 Capital Improvement Program. The total for all six years '24 to 2029 is $415,477,510. I don't think I've ever said a number that large in my life. There are 82 projects in the CIP. It includes nine new projects, six in general government and three in Utilities. Fiscal Year 2024 funding is $50,071,334 for 46 projects, and Utility Fund projects account for 22%, streets and highways is close to 50%. Our CIP trends over the last two years as you can see a steady growth over the last 10 years. The spike in '24 that's shown on the six -year CIP budget, a lot of that is driven by the Edwards Ferry Road Fort Evans bypass interchange project. That's a large number on that trend. If you take that project out, it comes down significantly, but it's still a little higher than '23 and Fiscal '21. As we stated, Page 2 1 February 27, 2023 streets and highways is 57% of the funding. The rising cost of construction is hitting everybody including the Town with the cost of our projects. The economy is much more volatile. Budgeting for our CIP projects, we use the engineering news record construction price indices to look at how to budget for our projects. We follow that very closely. For this current fiscal year looking at '24, we used 8% for Fiscal '24, and then went to our rule of thumb of 3% per year to midpoint of construction as we were doing our estimates. That indices has been as high as 9.2% this past year and right now is currently at 8.4. Vertical construction, we did the similar thing for Town Hall or Town Campus, excuse me, Town Shop expansion and the Police Station expansion. We utilized 11% for our vertical construction. It's currently at 14.9%. It has been at a high of 17.9%. Materials the most impacted has been structural steel, but we're also seeing impacts to reinforced concrete, pipe concrete, and asphalt. When we developed the CIP as I stated we used the higher price indices for Fiscal '24 and a 3% increase per year to midpoint of construction. For design, the CPIU is 4% for '23. We used that based on what our renewable contracts came in with as their request for their most recent year because the CPIU for design is actually at 5.4% but when our design engineers requested their renewal, they requested it at a lower percentage. Then we also took that at 3% at the end of the design phase. Our notable project budget changes. It primarily hits our larger projects by using the higher percentages so the Police Station expansion. We have a $3.2M increase, Evergreen Mill is $1.6M, Town Shop at $2.1M. The other projects have slightly smaller budgets so we're not in the millions. We're at about half a million for Market and King, Morven Park, the Lawson Road Pedestrian Crossing and Town Bridge Stream Channel at Mosby that one did go up to $1.7M, looking at all of the design criteria that we have to meet with that project and the FEMA component. Our nine new projects include the Thomas Balch Library Rehabilitation that is looking at drainage issues around the Balch Library. Parks and Recreation is Ida Lee Park Rec. The locker room and pool renovations, those locker rooms have not been touched very much at all since the building was originally opened. Miscellaneous playground surface and equipment replacements. Streets, we added the traffic signal at Field Stone and Battlefield Parkway because we anticipate that that intersection will meet signal warrants by the time that it is shown in the CIP. The Airport, we added the apron paving near the south hangers and the north terminal hangar area and south end site preparation to get a section of the Airport ready for a land lease. Utilities has three projects, the water pollution control facility, aeration improvements, water treatment plant filters three and four, and a gravity thickener replacement. With that, I'll take questions. Mayor Burk: All right, does anybody have questions at this point? Councilman Cimino -Johnson? Council Member Todd Cimino -Johnson: Thank you. Thanks for your presentation. I just have one question going back to the notable project budget changes. Yes, that one. Have we looked at what percent that change is of each of those projects? Renee LaFollette: I have not done the math to give you a specific percentage increase, no. Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Could I get that at some point? Thank you. Mayor Burk: Mr. Wilt. Council Member Patrick Wilt: Thanks very much. Great presentation. A question on slide 10, which is the CIP trends the last 10 years. I'm just noticing in terms of the budget in the 11 -year period identified, there's a factor of eight times growth in the budget. Is there any possibility the nature of projects that are done, if these are forecastable into the future in terms of utilities replacements, and road replacements or are these all unpredicted improvement -type projects? Renee LaFollette: Most of these projects started in the potential futures list of the CIP. They were either brought forward by staff, by the residents, Town Council, Planning Commission, so they go to the potential project list. We work through those in order based on sources of funding availability. Does it fit nicely into a section of the Town Plan working through it with the planning commission? Page 3 1 February 27, 2023 Once it's on that list, then we move it forward to a study to see what the general scope of the project is going to be so that we have a better number in that year's fiscal dollars. Our rule of thumb is that the project goes in the sixth year of the CIP and then works its way forward. Once it gets into the sixth year of the CIP, it works its way forward until it would be in Fiscal '24 for approval during the budget process. Council Member Wilt: It's part of budgeting. Do we- [crosstalk] Renee LaFollette: It's part of -- Council Member Wilt: -take a look at your forecast for dollars, three years out and such? Renee LaFollette: -- we look at the full six -year plan. Council Member Wilt: Okay. Renee LaFollette: When we're looking through our plan of projects, we're working with NVTA, we're working with VDOT, we're working with Loudoun County, all of our funding partners, to see where these projects could fit in those funding puzzles so that we can maximize the ability to get other people's money. Council Member Wilt: That's great. I think we've got a deep dive meeting scheduled Friday afternoon on this. Could we take a look at that too? Renee LaFollette: Yes. Council Member Wilt: All right, thanks, Renee. Mayor Burk: Amy, did you have something you wanted to add? Amy Wyks: I just wanted to answer your question related to Utilities, because the Utility Capital Projects are based on the Utility Fund as opposed to the General Fund. Over the last 10 years, we've had two rate studies that were completed, and the assessment of the rate studies showed that we were not reinvesting at the percentage that we needed to. We were at about a 50 -year turnover on assets. The rate consultant recommended us to increase that. We're trying to get to a 30 -year replacement of different pipes, equipment at the treatment plants also. Council Member Wilt: Great. Amy Wyks: Over the last 10 years, we definitely have been doing annual relining of sanitary sewer mains, replacing water mains, not just where Renee is related to a curb, gutter, and sidewalk project potentially, but also other trouble areas that we've identified. Ours are not just reactive. There's definitely proactive included also. Council Member Wilt: Okay, great. We forecast those out in the out years - Amy Wyks: Correct. Council Member Wilt: -for the rate studies. Great. Thanks, Amy. Mayor Burk: Mr. Bagdasarian? Council Member Ara Bagdasarian: Yes. Thank you very much. Appreciate the presentation. Just one thing, and I'II bring us up at a later time too, but, I just want to see what the implications would be of moving the WO&D lighting trail lighting project into 2024, rather than pushing it back a couple of years see what impact that would have in the overall budget. Renee LaFollette: From a staffing perspective. I can't do that without moving other projects. I have three project managers, one of which just recently gave me their resignation. I'm down to two project managers currently, and I'll have to recruit one. A lot of the projects that are already in '24 and '25 have Page 4 1 February 27, 2023 other sources of funding that have timelines established for spending that money. Juggling projects around to slide that project forward could prove challenging. Council Member Bagdasarian: We'II look at it. Thank you. Mayor Burk: Generally, we try not to do that for that particular reason. We plan them out just as you said, in a long distance, and generally don't try to slide another one in just because of what you're saying, how difficult it is. You have other projects that have been waiting for 6 to 8 to 10 years, and now you're putting one ahead of them, that particular project. Sometimes that causes problems with the residents themselves too. Vice Mayor Steinberg? Vice Mayor Neil Steinberg: Not Martinez? Mayor Burk: No. Vice Mayor Steinberg: Okay, I know it's a moving target, but how do we account for the upcoming rise in rates the Fed is certainly going to initiate and then potentially more steps after that? How do we just build that in? Renee LaFollette: You're talking about the increase in the interest rates with the Fed? Vice Mayor Steinberg: Interest rates, yes. Renee LaFollette: I will let finance answer that question. Clark Case: The current financing that we're using is a line of credit. That line of credit was locked down three years ago. We have to take that line of credit out at the end of 2024 with a permanent financing. Right now, the rates rising isn't really affecting our cost, but in 2024 when we have to go back to market, if rates are still high, that will be a problem. If there is a recession this year as some people are projecting, then the rates might be backed down again by then. It just depends on what happens with the economy. In any event, the assumptions we use in our long-term sustainability plan is 4% on a tax-exempt basis, and we're not seeing rates that high yet. Mayor Burk: Mr. Cummings? Council Member Cummings: Thanks. Just to piggyback on what Vice Mayor Steinberg just brought up -- Mayor Burk: You had to think about it too. Council Member Cummings: --I almost said Martinez, yes. We're seeing a 14.9% increase in cost for vertical. We're only looking at 11%. I know we're just talking numbers now and, in a few years, hopefully, it won't be so bad. Renee LaFollette: The reason we used 11% is at the time that we were putting the capital program together, the rate, the cost indices for vertical construction had spiked and then had started leveling out and was down in the 10.9%, 10.5% range, and started ticking back up after we put the CIP together. Council Member Cummings: Do we, again, asking you to bring out your crystal ball, I guess, is it going to start to trend back downward? Is it going to trend upward? I'm just wondering, is it worth it to say, let's hit, to think about hitting the pause button for a year or two to see where we're at? Or do we feel like the trend is going to ultimately overall go down? Renee LaFollette: It's really hard to say because if it does end up going into recession similar to what happened in 2008, we benefited significantly from that because construction costs dropped like a rock, and we got very cheap prices on our bids. If it slightly goes down, we're probably going to be right where we are. Now, when all of the work hits with the IIJA money that is out there and has been given to other jurisdictions, that will hit on the tail end of where our big projects are already scheduled. We should be Page 5 1 February 27, 2023 on the front end of that and not be where all of that money starts hitting, which could drive costs up even more. I think we're probably better off being status quo with what crystal ball I have right now. Council Member Cummings: Sure. I appreciate that. Then just a question about CIP in general. I had a number of residents when I'm at AV Symington with my son asking for more shade. I don't know, I may be the only one here that's actually been there in the summer in a while with a nine-year old at home, or maybe your grandkids. Is that a large enough project that we need to go into the CIP or is that something we could look for funding elsewhere for additional shade? Renee LaFollette: It depends on how much you're looking for. The definition of a capital improvement program is $60K or depreciable over a five-year period of time. If the cost of the shade is less than $60K, it wouldn't meet the definition of a CIP. I would have to work with Parks and Rec to figure that out. Council Member Cummings: I just wanted to make sure I bring it up so when I'm there this summer, I can say I did add something. Mayor Burk: Are you talking about umbrellas or are you talking about something else? Council Member Cummings: That's a good question. Right now, I think there are two large shade -- I'm looking at the Director of Parks and Rec. I know there's two large shade options for folks and when I'm there, I just hear about desire for more. Rich Williams: Correct. You're probably talking about the large shade structures that we have out there. We have some large components, and then there's some smaller ones that are spread throughout. The smaller ones you're probably looking $10K, $15K a piece. The larger ones, you're probably up until the $20K, $30K range. Council Member Cummings: So, all underneath that's $60K threshold? Rich Williams: If you do it as a package with multiple shades, then you're pushing up above into a CIP. Council Member Cummings: Thank you. Then just last question and comment, there's going to be some Federal funds available in the near future for-- I'm trying to flip my pages here so I can tell you the exact name of it. It's the community charging program. This is through the recent infrastructure legislation that passed and was signed by the president for community charging of electric vehicles. It's an 80-20 match. Part of that is having a plan in place, and the second portion of that is having it in your CIP or very similar program whatever the localities use. I think it would be good as we're thinking about that to begin the process and put a plan in place. An 80 to 20 Federal to local monies is a pretty good deal. We're looking at about $125K for a supercharger, so it would be great if we could start that process and obviously in six years, hopefully, we can get the funding from the Feds and make that happen. Mayor Burk: Six years? It's going to take that long? Council Member Cummings: We have to put it in the CIP, so it takes six years. Vice Mayor Steinberg: Just make it part of that lighting program. Mayor Burk: Oh, I see. You wanted to be part and I thought you wanted them to start planning right now. Anyway, never mind. I just have one question. I'm asking you again because I want you to reiterate, because people get confused and ask me this. The slide that you had that had nine new projects in the CIP, those are projects that are at the back. They've been in consideration but not in the six -year plan until now, and they will be in the back of the six -year plan? Renee LaFollette: Some of them based on need jumped ahead. They weren't in the potential futures. They were brought in based on need and condition of the facility. For example, the locker rooms at Ida Lee is a critical facility need for that facility. That project was not a potential or a priority future. It came Page 61 February 27, 2023 into the CIP strictly based on need. The same thing with the playground surfaces and equipment. That is two examples. Those two projects came in based on need. They exceeded what would fit in the capital asset replacement. They met the definition of the CIP and the facilities needed that upkeep. Those types of projects made it into the CIP based on discussion with department directors, Finance, and Town Manager's Office that those should be proposed earlier in the CIP. Mayor Burk: Mr. Bagdasarian had a project that you discouraged saying, "Don't bring it forward. Would make things move around. We'd look at it, but we'll have to." These are going forward. Renee LaFollette: These are moving forward. The W&OD trail lighting is one that started in the sixth year. It has moved forward. Everything that's proposed here on these projects was based on need and also staff workload availability. All of the six years in the CIP have been looked at from a financial sustainability, staff load, and critical need of facilities if they jumped ahead of any other projects. Kaj Dentler: Madam Mayor, maybe to provide a little clarification, Council's guidance on the CIP projects for the last 10 -plus years, longer has been that new projects go into year six and move forward. However, that's a guideline. It's not a requirement that staff and the Council would make exceptions based on a variety of factors, some of which would be available funding. I believe the lighting of the W&OD trail was somewhat contingent upon I think at one time trying to get money from the County - Renee LaFollette: Yes. Kaj Dentler: -which we did not get. Renee LaFollette: We did not get. Kaj Dentler: There are adjustments that we as staff make and that you make. On the Council level the last one that jumps out, if you recall, was the Lawson Road crossing that jumped entirely to year one at Council's discretion. Staff had it in year six, but that is your discretion. Although it's a guideline that Council has given us, it is not a law or rule that we have to follow. It is, again, discretionary. That's what she's trying to explain. If Council wanted to move the lighting of that trail project forward, we simply have to make other adjustments in the CIP. Not only the funding we have to figure out, but really right now the critical thing that we're facing is staffing. We are short of staff so we can make it work. If Council deems that's your priority, then we'll go back and we'll figure out what adjustments we can recommend to you to accomplish what you want to do. It's entirely your decision at the end of the day. Mayor Burk: The Lawson Road project that you bring up, the Town that got money from the Federal government. Renee LaFollette: Yes. Mayor Burk: We're not putting any money into it. The federal government-- Kaj Dentler: No. Renee LaFollette: We have matching funds that are on that project. Mayor Burk: We do have matching funds. Kaj Dentler: We didn't have all that funding when we moved forward with that project. Funding came later. Again, it's a total discretionary based on what Council views as the need and the demand at the time it gets done. Mayor Burk: All right, any other questions at this point? Page 7 1 February 27, 2023 Council Member Bagdasarian: Is there funding for that project or would that be coming out of the CIP budget? Is there additional funding for this- Kaj Dentler: For the Catoctin -- the lighting of the W&OD? Council Member Bagdasarian: Yes. Kaj Dentler: I think from my view, it probably is. I believe that on the Evergreen Mill Road Widening project, there are funds that are coming in from the County that we did not anticipate. That helps us and our availability of cash funding, or not cash funding, but line of credit funding, borrowing. The project of the Catoctin Circle isn't large enough to impact us. We just have to make adjustments. I think really the more critical factor again for us is simply the workload. We've got to make adjustments on that, but we have to do both the financing and the workload. Again, my recommendation is if Council wants us to work on that, we'll come back to you with an alternative plan to make adjustments. Just give us your direction, we'll figure it out. Mayor Burk: That will come up when we do the markup session. Kaj Dentler: Yes. When we do our markup session, that's the next meeting, which will be your first time, we'll feed you the information in advance and then you can be able to make adjustments at that particular time. Council Member Bagdasarian: Okay, I do have an additional question. Regardless of the funding, if the Evergreen project is funded through the County, that would not have an impact on the staff resources, correct? That would still -- Renee LaFollette: Funding won't have any impact on staff resources. I have two project managers to do all of the work that is in '23 and '24 right now until I'm able to hire another project manager. Workload is going to be a key consideration on moving this project forward with the number, what projects have to move to move this one forward. Council Member Bagdasarian: Completely understand. What is your timeframe optimistically for hiring a new project manager? Renee LaFollette: I have no clue. I wish I knew. Council Member Bagdasarian: Is it tough right now? Renee LaFollette: Right now, to hire engineers is extremely difficult. I know on the private sector, engineers right out of school are making over $100K plus $25K to $30K signing bonuses. As a local government, competing with that is very difficult. To get somebody that's more senior that can pick up a project and run with it is very difficult. My Assistant Director of Capital Projects position has been open since October with this many applications. Kaj Dentler: We are looking at other options to manage the workload that we're talking internally. Again, let us work on that part. It is a critical factor for us on our ability to produce output but let us work on that. You give us your direction. We'll come back with the plan. We'll have to make some adjustments internally as well as other projects. Mayor Burk: There needs to be four of us, that want to do the lighting of the -- Council Member Cimino -Johnson: [unintelligible]. Mayor Burk: Are there four people that want to bring forward the lighting on the W&OD Trail? Mr. Bagdasarian, Mr. Wily, okay. Kaj Dentler: We'II come back with an alternative plan. Now, that's assuming that there are no other adjustments you want to make in the CIP, because that's just one project now we're looking at versus maybe a couple others. I know Zach wants shade. Page 8 I February 27, 2023 Mayor Burk: Now, when we talked before, you asked me to just let everybody do their presentation and then we would bring in our ideas of changes to the 28th. You're changing that now. You want us now to bring forward-- Kaj Dentler: Yes. My apologies for that. If Council's ready to make one adjustment on a project, then it's better for us to know any other adjustments you may want to make, because she's going to move things around, but if you come back in two weeks and move three other things, then the work that she's done now will be possibly mute. It's better for us to know as much as we can now, or as soon as possible, to give you the best answer in two weeks. Mayor Burk: Okay. Go ahead. Did you have something you wanted to bring forward? Council Member Cimino -Johnson: No, I don't have anything to bring forward. I haven't looked at it from that standpoint, so I would need more time to study this and ask questions to move anything, other than the lighting. Mayor Burk: We wouldn't be the ones to make the suggestion on what gets moved. Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Right. Mayor Burk: The staff would be the ones to make the-- We would just say, "We want you to plant a gigantic tree at Ida Lee for $50K." Council Member Bagdasarian: Or more shade. Mayor Burk: They would have to find out what they wouldn't do, what project would not be done if that got moved forward. Council Member Bagdasarian: We could pull back my recommendation until our next meeting if we're not prepared to make other recommendations today. Kaj Dentler: That's fine. We're going to do what we can. The markup sessions usually are more on the General Fund, operating a little bit on the Utilities, but the Capital Improvement Program, this is the big night for our discussion on the CIP. The more guidance you can give me tonight or in the next few days, the better so I can address you more effectively, is all. Mayor Burk: Then leave his on. You got the four votes. Kaj Dentler: Correct. Mayor Burk: It doesn't mean, Todd, that you can't bring something up at a later date. Kaj Dentler: Correct. Mayor Burk: He's asking that they can get ahead of it. Obviously, you're asking for the CIP stuff at this point. You're not asking us to come up with a lighting program or a -- Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Shade program. Mayor Burk: Yes. Am I correct you? I'm confused, from what our discussion was previously. Kaj Dentler: I'm sorry. Let's just focus on Capital Improvement Program for now. If there are any other adjustments in the CIP that Council wants to make, changing schedules, adding new projects, taking a project out, anything like that, the sooner we get that information the better, so we can effectively give you an alternative plan to accomplish what we believe may be your majority position. We'll deal with you on an individual basis on projects, but it just gets harder as we get closer to the end to make adjustments. We can make it. It's just harder. That's the CIP. Mayor Burk: You have your light on? Page 9 1 February 27, 2023 Council Member Cummings: I do. I have a question I forgot to ask. I apologize. Mayor Burk: That's all right. Council Member Cummings: On the 16 Wirt Street facility, I know it's in the CIP at a million and change. I don't remember, I know we had a lot of discussion about this last year. What is the cost to just demolish the building? Renee LaFollette: To demolish and fill the site there is, the numbers that we got when we're putting the CIP together is about $650K. That's if we run across asbestos and other materials that have to be treated differently for disposal. If it's a straight building demo, because we have to take it down, there's a basement so the concrete walls come out, we have to fill the hole, we have to grade the site and looking at your face Cimino -Johnson on the cost. We got three different contractors to give us the price of taking that building down, and that's right around the areas that all three of them came in. Council Member Cummings: I thought I could save you more than $400K Ara for your lights. Sorry. Kaj Dentler: Can I ask a clarification? For demolishing, did you say $600K? I thought $600K was to fix the building. Renee LaFollette: Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. To fix the-- you're right. Kaj Dentler: That's why you had your reaction. Renee LaFollette: Yes. [crosstalk] It was to rehab. Sorry, it was $350K. It was half of that. To demo and regrade the site. Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Really? Renee LaFollette: Yes. Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Because I'm demolishing a house in West Virginia and it's going to cost me $20K and the house is bigger than that with asbestos. I know it's West Virginia — Renee LaFollette: Welcome to Northern Virginia. Council Member Cimino -Johnson: -- but that just seems a very far number. Mayor Burk: It's not in the Historic District. It's not in Leesburg. Renee LaFollette: Yes, we're in the Historic District. We're on a narrow street that they have to close to demo the building. Due to the age, there's the potential for asbestos in there. There's an old oil storage tank in the basement. There's a lot of factors that drive the cost in this region because if we have asbestos materials in that house, which we are anticipating that can't go to the Loudoun County Landfill. That has to go for special disposal, which is almost triple the cost of just sending it to the normal landfill. Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Wow. Okay. Renee LaFollette: I wish it wasn't that expensive. I was shocked too. Mayor Burk: Okay, then there's one thing that I would like to bring up that I was going to wait, but I will bring it up now. That is Raflo Park and Georgetown Park. They're parks that are very well used now and they are very, very dark at night. It would behoove us to have some safety lighting in there as people are walking their dogs and doing that sort of thing in those two parks. I would hope that we can get four people that would be at least interested in getting that information or the lighting. Council Member Cimino -Johnson: I'm sorry, I wasn't listening. Page 10 1 February 27, 2023 Mayor Burk: Mr. Dentler. Council Member Cimino -Johnson: It was my fault. It was my fault. Mayor Burk: I said- Kaj Dentler: For the record, I don't know what you said either. Mayor Burk: You never listen, but he does. I said that I would like to propose that Georgetown Park and Raflo Park, we put in safety lighting. They're very dark. People walk their dogs. Those are very popular parks now and we don't have any lighting in them. I would think it would benefit anybody that's using the park at night have some-- I'm not talking about big overhead lights, I'm talking about safety lights along the path and stuff so people are aware of what's there and what's not there. Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Do we have an estimate of cost? Mayor Burk: No, that's what he's going to look up. That's why we're telling him ahead of time. Rich Williams: The estimated cost for doing that for both parks is about $230K, and that would take into account all the infrastructure that's necessary for that. Bollards placed along the park trail as well as holiday decorative lighting and some permanent decorative lighting that could go in to accent the parks as well. Mayor Burk: I thought the holiday lighting was already taken care of. Rich Williams: The ho-- was already taken care of in? Mayor Burk: I thought that was already in the budget. Rich Williams: No, that's not for those parks. No. Kaj Dentler: There is about, I believe what, $40K, $45K in the budget for additional holiday lights, but not exclusively identified for those two parks. Rich Williams: Correct. That's part of the downtown. Kaj Dentler: I think that's what the Mayor-- [crosstalk] Rich Williams: That's part of the holiday lights that we incorporate here on site of the Town Hall campus as well. Council Member Bagdasarian: Everything you said was wrong. Kate Trask: Madam Mayor, what we had referenced in some conversations earlier was that, yes, we have the $45K in the budget, which is the lights that you all see on the holiday season. Then in looking at that proposed number of $230K, we could reduce that by about $20K to buy the decorative lights for the holiday, which would be the actual lights to wrap, not the infrastructure to put this in. Mayor Burk: No infrastructure, I realize that. Kate Trask: Yes. You're still at a $210K project. Mayor Burk: It could be done over a year or two or three, because the infrastructure has to go in first. Kate Trask: Correct. Mayor Burk: I guess I don't need that information because they already gave it to me. I don't need you to look up anything. Would there be four people that would be interested in considering that and putting it on there and see where it goes? I think that's just about everybody. Thank you. The other thing it does Page 11 1 February 27, 2023 not apply to this CIP. That's all I'll have for tonight. Anybody else have anything? Then do we want to go to the Extended Sidewalk Dining Program? Thank you. Appreciate everybody's presentations tonight. I can assure you, Kate already knows my opinion on this one. Kate Trask: The Extended Sidewalk Dining Program. I'm going to go over some history here because the programs existed since 2020. In 2020, with the start of the pandemic, the Council looked at a goal of trying to expand the capacity for restaurants to have diners. If you recall, there was actually a zoning change so that restaurants that had parking lots could actually extend their dining outside into those parking lots. That put some pressure to us to look at how we could serve the restaurants in Downtown Leesburg that didn't have a parking lot to use for that. After we looked at all the restrictions from the ABC and the fire marshal and everybody else, we were able to look at closing South King Street between Market and Loudoun. Those restaurants within there were eligible to come out on the street for some additional tables. Over the course of three years, we've had three restaurants that have benefited in participating to bring out extra tables for the program, and that's King Street Oyster Bar, the Wine Kitchen, and Echelon. Let's take a look at the timeline and the kind of changes that we've had since we began in 2020. We started the program in July 31 of 2020, but we intended to run it through October, but the restaurants were still needing to have that additional usage, so we extended it until December 20. We also were looking at only doing Fridays and Saturdays, but then in September decided to go ahead and add Sundays too to try to capture a brunch, lunch crowd. In 2021, we started in March and ran through December. We still started with three days, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. In May of that year, Executive Order 79 listed gathering restrictions, so indoor dining was open again. By October 30, we reduced the Sundays because there was lack of usage. Now that brings us to this past program year. We ran it from April to November based on the usage that we saw in 21. We ran it Fridays and Saturdays, 4:00 to 10:00. Then, because we weren't seeing the seating early in the evening, we pushed back the start time to five o'clock. Then on July 26, we announced a number of blackout dates that were competitive with our Town events or holiday weekends. That was driven because of staff resources, particularly PD. If we were having an event on Saturday that was going to use most of our Police Department or our Public Works and Parks staff, then we knocked out Friday so that we had the staffing for Saturday. Over 2022, we saw some trends here. These are the observations from staff that are down there every Friday and Saturday night. It's obvious that the program is definitely a fair-weather program. Obviously, first Fridays have a strong attendance to them, and the participation fluctuates. That's not just with the diners, it's also with the number of tables that a restaurant might put out. They might not want to put out their extra four or eight tables in their space allotted, because they just know there might be rain coming, or it might be too cold and they haven't gotten heaters out of storage yet. It also affects what we call strollers and that's not baby strollers. Those are the people walking down the street and congregating and waiting for their tables and passing through. We do see some trends, peak hours, for both table usage and people walking through is 6:00 to 8:00. Fridays are more popular than Saturdays for table usage. Then there's also a lot of inconsistencies out there amongst the restaurants. We had one restaurant this year that only put out one high top for four nights. We had one that stopped because of the restricted sidewalk space. Then we have three that don't add any additional tables. They just expand out to the curb during those hours. The restaurant staffing in talking to the restaurants when we say, "Hey, how come you don't have your extra tables out tonight?" It could be a staffing issue, whether they just don't have the staff or if somebody called out. That brings us to the question of what is the purpose of sidewalk dinning now post pandemic? Staff recognizes there's probably two very strong reasons, and that's to recognize the public's interest in Downtown. We all know that Downtown Leesburg is a popular destination, and to support our Downtown businesses. Staff put together three options for Council to consider. Page 12 1 February 27, 2023 The first option, which is staff preferred, is to focus and give predictability to the program, and that would be to do just first and third Fridays. That option also gives us a significant cost savings. Option two to consider would be to just continue on Friday nights and we would implement blackout dates because they're either an event or a pre -event or perhaps some ran on a holiday. Then the third option would be the status quo and that would be to continue with Fridays and Saturday nights. Mayor Burk: Any questions? Kate Trask: Questions and discussion. Mayor Burk: All right. Are there any questions on this at this point? Mr. Bagdasarian. Council Member Bagdasarian: I'm sorry, so what was the cost per closure? Kate Trask: Per what? Council Member Bagdasarian: What is the actual cost per closure? Kate Trask: Per closures? Council Member Bagdasarian: Per day or evening that is closed? Kate Trask: Hang on. Give me a second here. Council Member Bagdasarian: It's in there somewhere. Kate Trask: I gave you variances. Kaj Dentler: Kate, you have that slide, right? Kate Trask: That's not going to be per evening. Kaj Dentler: It'll give you probably a better idea of where you're trying to go, Mr. Bagdasarian. Council Member Bagdasarian: I'm just thinking, this is an ideal opportunity for the Main Street organization to weigh in and see where does this fit in with the overall strategy for Downtown as a district. I think what we do now, this is a temporary measure, but it would be ideal to have the input of the Downtown businesses and the recommendation from a funding perspective as well. Kate Trask: That ties in with the predictability of it to, as you see. First Fridays are strong so Main Street program can build on that. Mayor Burk: Mr. Wilt. Mr. Wilt? Council Member Wilt: Thank you. Actually, that was my first question also, what was the cost? Option one references a significant cost savings, so if we can find that number, that would be interesting. The next thing, if I'm looking, it's slide 16 in the total deck. So, if I'm correct in understanding this right now that only two restaurants are participating in this program, King Street and The Wine Kitchen. Kate Trask: When you read that, it's participating by adding tables, so correct. Wine Kitchen adds four tables in the loading zone that's in front of China King, and then Oyster Bar adds four tables in front of their building and four tables down closer to the bank. Council Member Wilt: The point of closing the street, rather, and there's already sidewalk dining space. Closing the street, only two restaurants are taking advantage of that. Whatever cost we're incurring is benefiting only those two, is that the right interpretation? Page 13 1 February 27, 2023 Kate Trask: As we ended the program, that is correct, because one restaurant in early September stopped. As they had related to us, the indoor business was doing well and the outdoor tables we're just more a marketing tool. Council Member Wilt: Right. On this, now since that the original intent for this during the COVID time period has passed, if this is an attempt to support downtown businesses, and there's a cost associated to the Town and taxpayers, are we seeing any and can we look at any business receipts or something to say, "Are we getting tax generated from this that offsets our costs in any way or is this just a giveaway?" Clark Case: The Town does collect business license revenue, which is a percentage of sales, and meals taxes are collected on the meals. We do not have it broken out separately as the restaurants do not report it to us separately. Council Member Wilt: Okay. We won't really know. Given that, I'm wondering, is there another option that is this program have any utility at all at this point and first Friday do have visitor and resident traffic and do we restrict this to first Friday? Is that an option or we're not considering that? Kate Trask: So, only do First Friday? Council Member Wilt: Right. The first Friday, instead of the first and third Friday. Kate Trask: Just first. That is certainly an option that could be discussed. Council Member Wilt: Okay. In the staffs analysis, that wasn't considered. Was there reason that wasn't considered or some negative to that? Kaj Dentler: No, fair question. We did talk about a variety of options, and we were trying to make a transition. Staff has had that discussion. In our retreat, I made it very clear that I believe that Council should go in that path, that it's only first Friday. It's Council's decision. As staff, we also looked at trying to provide you options to transition. It's entirely how Council wants to do it, but we did look at that. We didn't present that as one of our finals, just because we thought it might be harder to just make that adjustment for Council. That certainly is an option you can consider. Council Member Wilt: Okay. The very low impact of participation, I think that might be an option to consider and see what that cost savings would be. Mayor Burk: Dr. Cimino -Johnson? Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Yes. Thank you for your presentation. Have we talked to the business owners, especially the restaurants that are participating and letting them know that there could be this change? Kate Trask: We did not prior to this presentation. Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Are we going to reach out to them or? Kaj Dentler: I will jump in and say that Ms. Trask has done a lot of communications with our restaurants, that their general react-- correct me if I'm wrong, but their reactions are, they'll take as much as we give them. If we're willing to close the street down at our cost and they can decide to use the space or not, doesn't cost them anything. It's their decision to engage or not. If you're going to ask a business, "Do you want it or not?" That's the answer you're going to get. Kate Trask: That's a direct quote. Kaj Dentler: In general, it's a direct quote. Again, if government is willing to pay for it, and that's what they want to do, it's their cost, their decision. If Council has to decide if this helps your goals or not, in what way does it help you? That's all. That's your decision. Page 14 February 27, 2023 Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Okay. Then other than restaurants or other businesses that are located over there, are they able to bring stuff outside to sell? Kate Trask: No. Council Member Cimino -Johnson: No. Okay. Thank you. Kate Trask: If I can go back to answer that nightly question, it's $1,2K. That was for the ones that were held, and it can go up to-- It's between 12 and 15 [unintelligible]. Mayor Burk: Mr. Cummings? Council Member Cummings: Yes. Thanks. Council Member Cimino -Johnson asked my question about the businesses being consulted. Anecdotally, I will say when I'm Downtown when the streets are closed, it's a much more vibrant scene. An incident that happened this past fall when we did the Halloween event Downtown and the roads weren't closed, it was rather dangerous with children running around and folks walking and the sidewalks aren't incredibly large when you have a couple hundred people, if not more, walking down there. Quite frankly, I look at this program like I look at our parks and not everything is about a revenue to revenue, expense to revenue analysis. It's about what we can do to create a community feeling. I think having the street closed on first Friday, especially, but also on weekends, it creates a much friendlier environment for folks to come Downtown to take the golf carts Downtown and walk around and then head home. I think it makes a lot of sense. If we did analyze the numbers, I think the fact that all the budgets I've been a part of, we've seen the food and beverage tax numbers go up. We've seen sales tax go up; we've seen BPOL numbers go up because more businesses are contributing to that. I just believe that as the Town, this is one of the ways we can give back to our businesses by doing things like this. I would say now with Main Street in formation and beginning to grow and to create an organization that can help us make these decisions, now, to me, is not the right time to totally scrap it. I think we need to look at ways to do it, to continue to make it the effective program it is. Mayor Burk: Vice Mayor? Vice Mayor Steinberg: Thanks. My preference would be not to eliminate to just the first and third or first Fridays only. If anything, I think a fair transition would be to keep all Fridays for the timeframe that we decide is the most effective. That, in my mind, offers a level of consistency for people who are going to be visiting the Downtown. The events calendars notwithstanding, we know people will be aware of those in any event, but I think to so drastically reduce the program so immediately is not something that would serve the residents well. I think there's no question that the Fridays are by far the more popular of the two evenings. I think keeping all of the Fridays would probably be the best transition, gives us one more season to analyze the effectiveness of the program. It does not represent an extraordinary expenditure of funding for the couple of weeks. Thanks. Mayor Burk: Well, you know my opinion on it. I think investing in the Downtown is a good thing to do, and because some of the restaurants are not putting out tables, in particular, on the sidewalks, doesn't mean that they're not participating. They are doing things to bring people in. If you've been Downtown on a Friday, it's always packed. It's always very busy. It's very popular. Saturdays are a little less so, but you're still bringing people down. We're known for doing this now. It's significant in the community at large, but even outside of the community, you'll run into all sorts of people that are coming from other places. There's been a real interest in expanding it to other streets even. The fact that we're beginning this whole process of Main Street, and we recognize that the Downtown is an important aspect and a special place to take it all away. I could not support that at all. I would like to see it expanded so that we have bands on the streets and that we have music all over the place, not just in selected locations, although on Friday nights, it's everywhere. Page 15 1 February 27, 2023 I personally would like to see it expanded and made even more exciting. I'm not in favor of doing away with it at all. I would rather prefer to keep the Fridays and Saturdays going as it is, and reassessing in the future after Main Street comes on board. I don't know if Mr. Seymour has any input on this having been the Economic Development person. You were in the audience. Sorry. Russell Seymour: I was trying to hide behind Kate. Kate Trask: I'm sorry. Russell Seymour: Good evening, Madam Mayor, and members of the Council. One of the slides up there that Kate had, I think really does drive the point home. A lot of it had to do with personnel. People are having trouble, all businesses are having trouble hiring. When that was an issue that came out, that was something that we did see an impact. I think, Mr. Cummings, you brought up a good point as did the Mayor. We're seeing this, you cannot -- To look at this and just look at a couple of restaurants that put out there does not really drive this point home. We've heard from a couple of the businesses that one of which does not put restaurants or does not put things on the sidewalk that has told us point blank that it drives our business up 50%. Those are numbers now. I can't equate to them as finance have talked about, but what I do is I take what the businesses say pretty seriously. If that's something that they're telling us, and that was the email that I just got. Somebody is watching the meeting tonight, but they are talking about that those do have an impact and people see that. Mr. Steinberg you brought up a good point too with regards to our Main Street Program. This is something that's starting out right now as you gentlemen mentioned as well. Given the opportunity to work and incorporate this through the Main Street Program, I'd like to not close the door on this because I do think it does have a positive impact. Maybe not on that particular day, but we've been out there, and we've talked to people that have come down here from-- A couple times I've been out to West Virginia and they've come down here because of this. My question is, when you're coming back, what are you going to do then? It gives us an opportunity and I think that fits in with an opportunity for the Main Street Program to really push that sell. I would ask that you consider continuing it. If you cut it down to the first and third Fridays, that's certainly gives us something that we would otherwise not have and lose, but I will not like to see it completely cut for those reasons. Thank you. Mayor Burk: Thank you. Mr. Bagdasarian? Council Member Bagdasarian: Did you speak yet? Doesn't matter. Mayor Burk: Fight over it. Fight over it. Council Member Bagdasarian: We'll fight over it, arm wrestle. I think if we do keep it on Fridays, for example, this is an opportunity to make every Friday an event, not just first Fridays, and that's really part of the charter of the Main Street Program is to organize events on behalf of the Downtown community. I think it's something that we can utilize. I won't say exploit the opportunity to its fullest extent, but it's something that I think that's a wonderful opportunity that we can certainly look at through this organization, of course. Mayor Burk: Dr. Cimino -Johnson? Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Thank you. I want to go back to non -restaurants. What is the reason why we don't allow them to sit out things out front of their store? Kate Trask: It's part of the transition. I'm going to go back that this was a program and not an event. I think this is all about part of the transition to and there's restrictions that we have to follow from the VDOT too that when you close your sidewalk, you have to provide an accessible route as well. When you look, the next time you're down there when the street is being closed, look at how we laid it out. We Page 16 1 February 27, 2023 bought five portable ramps because we were closing off the ability to go from corner to corner, intersection to intersection. As soon as you add anything else from another business out onto the sidewalk, you're going to change that format, and the program began as dining not as shopping. When we started the program, we also couldn't have people gathered in the street. That was one of the executive orders. Actually, when the program started in '20 and up through I think almost the end of May of '21, staff was actually pushing people along. You couldn't congregate in the street. The signs actually said, please do not stop, continue moving, because otherwise we would've been not abiding by the executive order. Things progressed. You could do that but then now it's becoming an event and you need the staff resources and another layout in order to bring non -restaurants out. I'm saying it's not possible, I'm just saying I'd have to look at it again as to the flow. Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Is it possible to look at this to bring other business allow them have-- If I have an art shop to bring two paintings out front that people will look at. It might draw them into my shop. I think it's an enhancement to this program if we could add something. We don't have buy -in, I guess, or they don't have the manpower for the restaurants. I know if I had a shop, I would want to put something out front. Kate Trask: Certainly, and we get asked that question all the time. Full transparency, they want to be out there. My other role with the Town is ADA coordinator, so I have to pay attention to what the regulations allow us to do. In all seriousness, we'd have to sit down and look at what does that layout look like? Can I get you onto that sidewalk and in front of that shop, whether they have their artwork out or their clothing rack out? I have to lay that out so that we can accommodate and have that universal design for everybody to enjoy that. Council Member Cimino -Johnson: I'd like to see us work on something like that. Kate Trask: It would also add to staff resources to be able to manage that because that's not something that we're managing right now. Kaj Dentler: What you're bringing up really connects to what Council Member Cummings raised. That particular event that he's talking about has become extremely popular. It wasn't this particular program. It was the Downtown. What was it, Halloween? Kate Trask: Trick or treating. Kaj Dentler: That event does require a change in how we've operated, but that's not the norm. That's the exception based on the size and success of that event. We do need to accommodate that. If we begin to create an event and encouraging that level of usership in Downtown, then we have to manage it differently. Another thing to remember on the businesses, depending upon what goods or where they're selling, whether, if it rains if there's a quick downpour, those paintings got to get inside really fast. If it's hot and they're on the east side of the street, the sun's going to bake it. They may not want that out. Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Those are their decisions. Kaj Dentler: Correct. They can only are in front of their business. We can look at some options, but the focus has been entertainment, food, and dining more so than that because it's Friday night. We can look at that if that's your direction. We'll make things happen. I'm not sure that's the market, but we'll certainly look at that if that's what you want us to do. The one thing I want to mention to you if you show the budget. Based on what you decide, this gives us a unique opportunity to save some significant dollars. You're talking a hundred -plus thousand dollars that we can dedicate to the Main Street Program until you decide what you're going to do. The Main Street Program, should you move forward, is going to need funding to get started. Page 17 I February 27, 2023 You're looking at a pretty healthy number. The number's high because when we started, we weren't sure what we're going to do, how long it was going to be done, what the manpower. There was a lot of talk for a while about expanding the program. We didn't want to cut because we didn't know where Council was going to go. We needed to play this out. Now we've played it out. We can make some strategic decisions about where to go forward or not go forward. Just keep that in mind. I think we can still accomplish what Council's interests are in keeping the program alive on the first and third Fridays, for sure, or every Friday, your decision. You can still save some significant money, put that aside for the Main Street Program until you decide what you want to do with the Main Street. Basically, you have a funding source, but if you don't keep the funding source and it goes back into the Unassigned Fund Balance, it's going to drop out. My advice would be to assign it. If you cut this program, that we take a part or all of that money and put it somewhere designated specifically for Main Street until you so decide that we can use it for that purpose, because you will search for a funding source down the road. Mayor Burk: Have you finished? Your light's still on. Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Never. Mayor Burk: Yes. Vice Mayor? Vice Mayor Steinberg: To continue with this conversation, I'm not convinced that expending the effort for this, in particular, is really going to get us anywhere. I'm just thinking of the businesses that exist in the one block of King Street. You have Brick and Mortar, you have Rouge and you have the King Street, the Leesburg Gourmet, all of which are specialty shops with fairly expensive inventory. I can't imagine, especially given limited staffing, that they're going to want to put inventory on the streets unattended and certainly weather reliant. Given that you do have ADA considerations in terms of keeping paths open for pedestrians and so on, I'm just not sure once we even get-- even if we have the information, that it's going to be very useful or that those particular retail shops are going to be particularly interested in actually participating. I'm just wondering if, in the end, it doesn't become a wasted effort. Mayor Burk: In fact, that's something Main Street could do. Vice Mayor Steinberg: There's Russell. Kaj Dentler: Madam Mayor, I was just going to ask if Council can give us your direction, we can move forward with beginning to prepare the program. If you wait until the end of March, we're losing time. Whether you want to vote on it tomorrow night or in two weeks, or just give us your majority direction tonight, we'll make sure the budget is adjusted. We'll need your direction sooner or later so we can prepare the program that you're expecting us to deliver because Spring is here. Council Member Bagdasarian: [unintelligible]. Mayor Burk: Well, then I think Todd, you have a program that you wanted to bring forward the Volunteer Recognition Program. Why are you looking at me like that for? Council Member Cimino -Johnson: I don't know what he's talking. Mayor Burk: If he's asking us now to give him budget recommend -- Council Member Cimino -Johnson: He's asking which option. Mayor Burk: What? Mr. Dentler, again, not listening. Clarification. Kaj Dentler: Sure. Clarification. Page 18 1 February 27, 2023 Mayor Burk: Are you asking for the budget in general, if we have any programs we want to add to the budget? Kaj Dentler: I'm asking for Council direction on which of these options or another option you wish us to pursue. Staff needs to prepare scheduling, et cetera. Police are 20 officer short plus or minus. It's a staffing issue for us. The sooner we know what we're doing, the better we can make it happen for you. It doesn't have to wait until the budget is passed. Mayor Burk: This is what you're asking for. You're not asking for any other budget recommendations at this point. Kaj Dentler: I am not. Mayor Burk: The first option is first and third Fridays. Are there four people that would like to do option number one? Option number two is just to do it on Fridays. We got four people that want to do it on Fridays. Eileen, do you need the names? You got them. Okay. All good? Kaj Dentler: That's all we need. We will go forward with that. Thank you. Mayor Burk: This is what has been scheduled to be-- He's not listening again. We are done on the particular things on the budget. It is now 8:15. Mr. Dentler, do I remember correctly that we could begin more budget discussion if we so desire to? Kaj Dentler: Sure. You remember well. Utilities Director is here. If you'd like to go ahead and have that conversation, we can do that tonight, or we can wait until two weeks from now. Mayor Burk: What is the preference? Are there four people that want to continue the discussion on the budget at this point? I guess I need to ask what people have on for future meetings. Mr. Wilt? Council Member Wilt: Nothing for tonight. Mayor Burk: Mr. Bagdasarian? Vice Mayor? Mr. Cummings? Council Member Cummings: No. Mayor Burk: Sorry. Council Member Cimino -Johnson? Council Member Cimino -Johnson: I don't have anything tonight. Mayor Burk: Then there's a motion to adjourn. Council Member Bagdasarian: So, moved. Mayor Burk: Second. Second? I thought you moved it. Council Member Cummings: [inaudible]. Mayor Burk: Thank you, Mr. Bagdasarian. Moved by Council Member Cummings, seconded by Council Member Bagdasarian. All in favor of adjourning, please say aye. Council Members: Aye. Mayor Burk: Opposed, me. Vice Mayor Steinberg: [unintelligible] Mayor Burk: Two. Council Member Bagdasarian: I didn't know you could do that. Page 19 1 February 27, 2023 Mayor Burk: All right. That passes 4-2. Four, five six, you right. 4-2. Eileen Boeing: [inaudible] Mayor Burk: No, four. Council Member Cummings: 4-2. Mayor Burk: Mr —No. Page 20 1 February 27, 2023