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HomeMy Public PortalAbout 2023_tcwsmin0710Council Work Session July 10, 2023 Council Chamber, 25 West Market Street, Leesburg, Virginia, 7:00 p.m. Mayor Kelly Burk presiding. Council Members Present: Todd Cimino -Johnson, Zach Cummings, Vice Mayor Nell Steinberg, Patrick Wilt, and Mayor Kelly Burk. Council Members Absent: Ara Bagdasarian and Kari Nacy. Staff Present: Town Manager Kaj Dentler, Town Attomey Christopher Spera, Deputy Town Manager Keith Markel, Planning and Zoning Director James David, Economic Development Director Russell Seymour, Assistant Zoning Administrator Evan Harlow, and Clerk of Council Eileen Boeing. Minutes prepared by Deputy Clerk of Council Corina Alvarez. AGENDA ITEMS a. Item for Discussion a. Affordable Housing Incentive Follow Up Messrs. David and Harlow gave a presentation on Council's previous actions regarding affordable housing, fee waivers, area medium index targets, expedited review processes at other jurisdictions, and staffs recommendation. Council and staff discussed the item. It was the consensus of Council to hold another Work Session discussion to outline the Fee Waiver Program and Expedited Review Process. b. Evaluate the Development of a Business Incubator/Entrepreneurial Program Mr. Seymour gave a presentation on how localities are providing support to small businesses and entrepreneurs through: • Physical locations (business incubators, business accelerators, and coworking space) • Partnerships with educational/service providers (Small Business Development Center, George Mason University, Northern Virginia Community College, and private sector partnerships) • In house services (Launch Loudoun) Council and staff discussed the item. No further action requested by Council. c. Legislative Aides for Council Members Mr. Dentler mentioned that staff needs additional information from Council to proceed with this item such as the number of aides required, the number of hours, if support is for each individual or for the entire group, among others. There was no consensus to move forward with this item. b. Additions to Future Council Meetings Mayor Burk requested a Work Session on amending the Town Code to allow Boards/Commissions more flexibility to cancel meetings. llPage Council Work Session July 10, 2023 The Town Attorney will propose amendments to the Town Code language for Council consideration at a future Work Session. c. Adjournment On a motion by Vice Mayor Steinberg, seconded by Council Member Cummings, the meeting was adjourned at 8.'13 p.m. Clerk of Council 2023_tcwsminWl0 2 1' a g July 10, 2023 - Leesburg Town Council Work Session (Note: This is a transcript prepared by a Town contractor based on the video of the meeting. It may not be entirely accurate. For greater accuracy, we encourage you to review the video of the meeting that is on the Town's Web site - www.leesburgva.gov or refer to the approved Council meeting minutes. Council meeting videos are retained for three calendar years after a meeting per Library of Virginia Records Retention guidelines.) Mayor Burk: Welcome to tonight's Town Hall work session, Town Council work session of July 10th. The first order of discussion tonight is the Affordable Housing Initiative. Mr. David, you're presenting that? James David: Yes, I am, and I've enlisted the help of Mr. Evan Harlow tonight as well, our Assistant Zoning Administrator. Good evening, Mayor and Council Members, James David, Planning Director, and tonight's item is continued discussion on a couple of elements from the Affordable Housing incentive memo that was first circulated by Council Member Cummings at the end of last year. We'll be considering establishment of a fee waiver program and/or an expedited review program for qualifying affordable housing projects. As mentioned, this is further discussion on the Affordable Housing Incentives memo that was first circulated in October of last year. November of last year, the Council put it on a future agenda, April was that future agenda date, but in the intervening time, the Council also added Affordable Workforce Housing to your 2023 Council Work Plan. The memo was discussed, and we received some direction from Council at that April 10th meeting. Each of these points was a reaction to a proposal from Mr. Cummings in the memo. The first one was, Council was comfortable with our existing area, median income, or AMI targets adopted in the Town's current Affordable Dwelling Unit Program. As a reminder, those AMI targets are 30% to 70% AMI for ownership, 30% to 50% AMI far rental. Council was supportive of revising the density bonus structure for affordable housing projects as part of the pending zoning ordinance rewrite. There was two items that you all asked for us to bring back, which is the subject of tonight, fee waivers and expedited review. The Council also continued to support collaboration with Loudoun County. As you know, they provide the housing services for the Town. Council was interested in evaluating reducing parking requirements for affordable housing projects, we'll do that in the zoning ordinance rewrite, and then there was no desire to change the current payment in lieu options for affordable housing developers. Nth that, I would like to turn it over to Mr. Evan Harlow. He's going to provide some considerations on fee waivers. Evan Harlow: Thank you, sir. Good evening, Council. I would point you to the background section of the memo, and what are we doing now? How are we collecting fees? What authority do we have to collect those fees? The Code of Virginia does allow localities to collect reasonable fees for the administration of the stormwater management program to provisions of water and sewer service, those are your availability fees that we collect, as well as collecting fees for development review and inspections. Those are your zoning permits, your inspections, your site plan reviews, subdivision review, those types of reviews. The State of Virginia allows the Town, Virginia localities, to collect these reasonable fees for the services that we provide. Those are codified in the Town Code, the subdivision land development regulations, as well as the zoning ordinance. There's language in those three documents that talk about public and private applicants. The Town has the ability to collect those fees at time of application. Now, the Town has a policy and also incorporated language into the Town Code, the subdivision land development regulations, as well as the zoning ordinance, that fee waivers are granted, kind of a blanket fee waiver, for the Town, County, and school projects. We do not charge ourselves or the County for those types of projects. That only includes land development application fees, zoning permits, site plans, subdivisions, boundary line adjustments, those types of applications. It does not Page 1 July 10, 2023 extend to water and sewer fees. The Town and the County actually do pay water and sewer fees, those availability fees. It does not extend to water and sewer service. I just wanted to point that out. Moving forward, in 2019, the Code of Virginia, there was an adoption that allows for localities to create an affordable housing fee waiver ordinance. That's really what's up for discussion tonight. It goes towards building permit fees, as well as other local fees. It allows localities to consider creating that ordinance. It's specifically for construction, renovation, and rehabilitation of affordable housing projects. It's very specific to those three things. It's for nonprofit, as well as for-profit developers. In 2009, the adoption of language was only for nonprofit, which are typically your 501(c)(3)s. The 2019 language extended that to for-profit developers. It does allow the locality to establish criteria and what constitutes affordability. Those are things like setting your AMI affordability ranges, setting the maximum fee waiver amounts, what applications may be eligible in the approval process. It does provide the Town some authority to create that program. What I wanted to point out is Loudoun County did establish an affordable housing fee waiver ordinance or program. It's effective July 2023. That's when the funding became available. Their program, this is highlighted on page four of your memo, has several eligibility criteria. What they established is 100% affordable. That's rental and ownership. The project itself had to be 100% affordable units. Much of the reason they did that, it was a little bit easier to administer the fee waiver program rather than having 50% and trying to decide what's the percentage of fees that we give back to the developer. They went 100% all in. It does not include mixed -use developments. Mixed -use developments market rate versus affordable is not included in that program. They set targets at or below 60% AMI for rentals, and then at or below 100% AMI for ownership. They provided a wide range of AMI levels. They did establish a 30 -year deed restriction. Basically, means that the units themselves have to be affordable for a minimum of 30 years. They also established a minimum three-year requirement to actually get the project up and occupancy permits issued with the ability to extend by the Director of Building and Development. It's a three-year timeline to get the project up and going. These are for administrative applications only. Those are typically your by -right applications. They do not come to the Planning Commission or to the Town Council. Those are your site plans, your zoning permits, boundary adjustments subdivisions and things of that nature. It's specific to administrative applications. Does not include rezoning, special exceptions, those types of applications. They did set a cap at $100K per project with a maximum of $400K per year, which can be evaluated by the Board of Supervisors every budget cycle. It's administrative approval. The Building and Development Director has the authority to approve the fee waiver, does not have to go to the Board of Supervisors for approval each time the waiver comes in. Mainly they did administrative approvals because they set very specific criteria when the application is submitted so that it's very easy for the Building Development Director to do the approval. It's also on a first -come, first -serve basis. If the money's exhausted, the $400K is exhausted in that fiscal year, they have to wait until the next fiscal year to apply. We do believe that this is some pretty good criteria for a baseline discussion for tonight. Mayor Burk, we can stop here if there's any questions or we can move over to James for the expedited review discussion. Mayor Burk: Why don't you finish your presentation? James David: Sounds good. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Harlow. The next portion of this was to look at expedited review programs, and the memo specifically recommended we study the County's Fast - Track program, and potentially adapt something similar to shortened timelines and the review process for qualifying affordable housing projects. Right now, the County doesn't have a Fast -Track program for affordable housing, but they do have a Fast -Track for commercial projects. They call it a Commercial Incentive Program, and it's been in place for a few years, and it's pretty successful. It has a lot of layers to it. Page 2lJuly 10, 2023 You have to have a business that's in a targeted industry in the County, and you have to agree to a timeline both on the public sector side and the private sector side, an abbreviated timeline. The County does have a designated staff program manager who's an ombudsman of sorts that is responsible for ensuring that that timeline is met and that everybody is moving quickly. They do get to jump to the head of the review line with those commercial project Fast -Track applications. Then there's also a special staff review team in the various departments that are part of that review process. Other things to consider with the County is that they do have the Unmet Housing Needs Strategic Plan that calls for a Fast -Track program for affordable housing. They just hired an affordable housing ombudsman to oversee development of that process. Staff did look a little broader and found some expedited review process examples for affordable housing. There's one in Montgomery County, Maryland, called the Green Tape Program. One in Pinellas County, Florida that focuses on affordable housing developments. San Diego has some expedited review for infill housing sustainable projects. Fairfax County also has an expedited plan review program. We can get further into the details if Council has specific questions. For tonight, we wanted to end by proposing the Council consider a few impacts from these projects, the fiscal impacts for a fee waiver program, $75K per project, not to exceed $150K in a year for land development fees only. Costs associated with expedited review would come generally in staffing. Work plan impact takes about 12 months to do ordinance amendments, and again, expedited review program would take some additional staff. Tonight's recommendation is, consider these two programs, provide direction on whether or not the Council would like to establish them. Thank you. Mayor Burk: All right. Mr. Wilt, do you have any questions? Council Member Patrick Wilt: [unintelligible] is that -- Mayor Burk: You could do it. Council Member Wilt: There we go. All right. Yes. The fiscal impact, the $75K per project, what does that mean? Is that what we currently charge for these land development fees? Are you proposing waiving that? Is that how I read that? James David: Great question. The number $75K was initially in the memo, but upon further research, we found that it was a pretty good cost for your average multifamily project in the Town of Leesburg in terms of those land development fees. We looked at two projects. Actually, Evan's got some stets for me here. We looked at the Potomac Station Marketplace. That was 54 units multifamily. The zoning permits came in around $25K. The site plan subdivision permits were around $62K. Roughly. $87K in land development fees for that project that size. King Street Station was a 68 -unit project. Zoning permits were around $25K. Site plan was around $50K. Roughly $75K in those land development fees. Council Member Wilt: Okay. Those weren't affordable projects. Those were just examples. James David: They were not. Correct, just examples. Council Member Wilt: The nature of those fees, are those fees which cover a direct cost that staff incurs or are those fees that some portion goes to general budget? James David: They don't fully recover the cost of all the staff time for the review process, but they work towards recovering some of that cost for staff time. Council Member Wilt: Okay, so actually, the staff allocated time specifically on those projects as an excess of the fees we collect? James David: Correct. If you looked at the number of hours spent on those different reviews, I don't think we'd be recovering all those costs with our current fee structure. Page 31July 10, 2023 Council Member Wilt: Okay. Is the County in the same situation with the $100K? James David: Yes, the County is in a similar situation. The $100K would not fully recover all the costs of the review. Council Member Wilt: Okay. This is actually then, this would be a, not just a sacrifice of general budget, but actually of, we would then be funding direct staff costs to support these projects by waiving these fees. James David: Yes. Additionally, yes. Council Member Wilt: Okay. Is this $150K a year, is there a proposal for an offset of that? Does that come from somewhere? James David: No. The proposal at this time, we were just looking at potential numbers. That $150K per fiscal year would be a loss. Council Member Wilt: Okay. If we let it be a loss rather than an offsetting it. James David: Correct. Yes. Council Member Wilt: Okay. The expedited nature of this, you're saying additional staff would be required to do this? James David: Yes. That's our estimate right now. Now, of course, it depends on the eligibility criteria that the Council may set. If you set a very high barometer, were only going to expedite a hundred percent affordable projects. The Town doesn't get too many a hundred percent affordable projects. The staffing impact might be less, versus if we set a barometer at 10% affordable, then you're going to have a lot of projects going through the expedited review, and you might need additional staff resources. Council Member Wilt: Okay. That's because of, and in some nature, expediting something is a matter of prioritizing, but that's because the current workload is maxed out the resources. James David: Exactly. Council Member Wilt: If we prioritize these projects over something else, something else gets bumped. James David: Something else, either it's going to take a lot longer, or you're going to start to stretch that staffing capacity. Council Member Wilt: Okay. All right. Thank you. Mayor Burk: Council Member Cummings? Council Member Zach Cummings: Thanks. You answered a couple of my questions already. At the County's fee waiver program, did they give a reason why? Or in your experience, do you know why they kept it to just to by -right, non legislative applications? Evan Harlow: One of their thoughts is that a master developer typically comes in and does a larger project, submits the rezoning application, and then a smaller piece or land bay then gets sold off to the affordable housing developer. The thought was, were not going to give the fee waiver to the master developer that's for profit. It's only going to be for the non-profit work. Council Member Cummings: Perfect. That makes sense. We talked about, for the expediting of the process for affordable projects, about haw many staff members do you feel like we would have to add to make that work? Page 41July 10, 2023 James David: Rough estimate would probably be one FTE most likely in the engineering division, if we're talking about by -right projects. Cursory evaluation is that we're marginally staffed just to meet the existing workload under existing standard timelines. Council Member Cummings: Okay. All right. I don't have any other questions. I appreciate all of the research and your efforts on this. I think it makes a lot of sense for me. Increasing the amount of affordable housing we offer in the Town is a priority. I think by making this a priority, we have to be able to put our money to the test. I would support fee waivers for projects similar to what the County looks at. I'd love to see us maybe find a way to put a maybe a test program or something into place for the expedited process, knowing that it's going to take more staff, which means in the next budget or future budgets, we need to add more money to allow that staff. My hope is that we can continue to prioritize creating affordable housing here in the Town and put some of this to work. Mayor Burk: Council Member Cimino -Johnson? Council Member Todd Cimino -Johnson: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Thank you for the presentation. I just have one question. Has there been, in Leesburg, affordable housing projects before? James David: Great question. There's not too many, but as far as the current totals, there's about 80 total affordable dwelling units. They're sporadically displaced in market rate projects that also have affordable components. A hundred percent affordable projects. Not too many I can account. Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Okay. Do you know the highest percent in a one neighborhood or one project? James David: Lets see. Virginia Village had 33 units, and that is, I think it's about 150 units or so. The percentage there is probably just above the minimum requirements. PMW Farms had about 30 units. I can't tell you how big that development is now that happened a while ago, but no, we haven't seen it. However, we do have an application in now that is 100% affordable in conjunction with the rezoning over at Oaklawn, which is about 168 units, I want to say, that's proposed. Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Since that's already put in, would that not be a part of something if we passed this? James David: Most likely it would take about a year to get these programs underway. Probably I wouldn't apply to that one. Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Thank you. Mayor Burk: Vice Mayor Steinberg? Vice Mayor Neil Steinberg: Thanks. Can we go back for a moment to the fee waivers slide Loudoun County? For some reason, I'm not clueing in on the out of below 100% AMI for ownership. Explain that exactly. James David: Sure. These are the criteria listed for program eligibility. You would have to bring in a 100% affordable project and apply to the County for a fee waiver, whether or not you're going to do it for rental or for ownership. Vice Mayor Steinberg: Well, no, I'm specifically at or below 100% AMI ownership. James David: If ifs an ownership project, then they have to be units that are at or below 100% of the area of median income. Vice Mayor Steinberg: For the ownership? Page 5IJuly 10, 2023 James David: Yes, for ownership. Vice Mayor Steinberg: That's where I'm getting a little stuck. If its 100% AMI or below, it gives the applicant a lot more leeway, doesn't it, in terms of the number of units for affordable? James David: It does. I think that the area median income-- Do you remember, Evan? Is it around $140K, $150K? Evan Harlow: It's around $140K. Vice Mayor Steinberg: I guess my question is, why would you offer a fee waiver to a project that might be entirely 100% AMI for ownership? James David: I think it blends into the workforce housing objective. You broaden the program so that more projects can take advantage of the fee waiver, and now you're getting a more of a continuum of housing affordability, not just for the very low, low-income, but also for those that are making it right at the middle. Vice Mayor Steinberg: I see. In Council Member Cumming's memo of a couple of months ago, he was offering a Fast -Track program, adapting a similar process that shortens the timeline for applicants that include significant affordable housing. It will be up to us to decide what that significant number might be in the end? Okay. VJhy did the County choose not to offer an expedited process for affordable housing, but rather they went for commercial instead? James David: The commercial incentive program has been there six years, and so I think it was probably beholden to the political priorities at the time to be business friendly. It was an incentive program that brought in targeted industries and moved them through the process quicker. Now, the County has decided to try and create a similar program for affordable housing. It's an adopted strategy in their unmet housing needs strategic plan. They just have not developed it and implemented it yet. They just hired a resource, a dedicated affordable housing ombudsman in the building and development department. Their first order of business is to be creating a program similar to the Fast - Track commercial for a Fast -Track affordable housing. Vice Mayor Steinberg: Okay. Let's say we decide we would like an expedited review process, which would require one FTE, you said, but we don't have that many applications. How would we best utilize the time then of that one employee above and beyond the Fast -Track or affordable housing reviews when there simply may not be that much work for them to do? James David: Again, it depends on that barometer of how significant is the affordability component. A lot of the examples that staff researched, the minimum threshold was down around 10%, 20% affordable. Obviously, a lot of more applications would be coming through if that was your level of eligibility versus if we ratcheted it up to say, 80% or 100% affordable, are the only projects that get expedited review. Vice Mayor Steinberg: Has that number really done much to satisty affordable housing needs in the County at only, say, 10% of a project? Is that enough of a threshold? James David: It's a good question. I don't know the answer to that. I could speculate that these are some bigger counties that you see on the screen here, so they probably get a lot more activity. I have heard anecdotally from affordable housing developers that expedited review is really where the difference is made in their world because they can save a lot more money from compressing the timelines, versus the fee waiver component is, their words, not mine, a little more of a tokenistic effort to help them out. Vice Mayor Steinberg: When we talk about waiving tap fees, hookup fees, for example, if a project isn't 100% affordable, do you somehow-- is that waiver applied to the project in its entirety? I'm not Page 6IJuly 10, 2023 sure how you would do that, figure a percentage to cover the affordable portion of the project as opposed to all the project? What is usually the process there? James David: We're actually not recommending we waive the water and sewer tap fees. We're actually not too sure that the State enabling legislation would allow waiver of water and sewer fees the way it's written. A very literal read says that it is for construction renovation, rehabilitation of affordable housing. So, how would you waive building permits and other fees if it's not 100% affordable? I think that'd be tough to administer, which is why the County landed on our fee waivers are for 100% affordable projects, and Town staff simply would probably want to follow suit with that. Vice Mayor Steinberg: Okay. Well, obviously, those are the details wed have to work out. I personally don't think I'd be in favor of waiving the utility fees, honestly. That might be one step too far. Okay, thanks. James David: Just for context, going back to those examples that I read off for Council Member Wilt, back to the Potomac Station Marketplace project, 54 units, utilities fees were around $589K. King Street Station utilities fees were around $794K, so that's a significant bite from the overall fee structures. Vice Mayor Steinberg: Thank you. Mayor Burk: I have a couple of questions here. You said that the County is waving $100K per project, but that it costs more than the $100K. They're only waiving a percentage of the cost. James David: Certain percentage, correct. Mayor Burk: They're only doing $400K. James David: Every fiscal year. Mayor Burk: I shouldn't say only, they're doing $400K. James David: Yes. Mayor Burk: Do you have any idea where that money came from? Did this come from ARPA funds or anything of that nature? Evan Harlow: The $400K? I believe they are actually putting it into the building and development budget on a fiscal basis. They're actually putting the $400K into the budget. Mayor Burk: It's an actual budget item at this point. Okay. If the Town were to do something like this, where would we get the additional funding? If were going to no longer require that funding for these projects to cover the cost of staff, where do we make up that money? How would we make up that money? James David: I think that would be a question we need to further explore, and it aligns with Mr. Wilt's line of questioning. As of right now, we're looking at it as a loss year development review revenue, which I think I estimated in the staff report, that the departments that collect development fee revenue, so mainly Planning And Zoning and Plan Review, collected approximately $962,500 in permits and fees in fiscal year of 2022 for reference. Mayor Burk: Okay. but then we have to hire a staff person if we decide that we want to move this on a Fast -Track proposal. James David: A fee waiver program, we wouldn't need a staff resource that would mainly be either a loss to that revenue stream or figuring out a way to supplement it. Mayor Burk: But the Fast -Track, we would have to have - Page 71July 10, 2023 James David: The staffing would be for the expedited review. The common thread that staff found in researching all those programs is dedicated staff resources for the program. Mayor Burk: Right, so that's an additional cost that we will be putting in. James David: Correct. Mayor Burk: The -- Sorry, it's mine. Does the fast tracking, that doesn't affect anything at the County level. That doesn't affect anything in the Leesburg development arena. If you're building something in Leesburg, none of this applies from the County aspect. James David: Correct. The Fast -Track program right now is to by -right commercial development projects in the County. Mayor Burk: But I mean the fee waiver. I'm sorry, I wasn't dear. The fee waivers, does that -- if they were coming into the Town, would they also get the County's fee waiver and the Town's fee waiver? Evan Harlow: If they meet the eligibility requirements, then yes, they could possibly get fee waivers for both jurisdictions. Mayor Burk: They're already going to be getting it from the County. Interesting, okay. I don't know if I understood the question previously, but we at one point did have Loudoun house which was 100% affordable. It was a HUD housing project that lasted, what? 20 years, and then it became market - value housing. There has been a project at one point, [unintelligible]. James David: Oh, okay. Thank you. Mayor Burk: Now I was going to point out to all the places that you gave us examples are much larger localities than ours. I guess my concern is that they'll be getting a discount from, a fee waiver from the County and from the Town. and is that really fair at this point? I'd have to think that through. Well, thank you, I appreciate your information. Does anybody else have any additional-- Mr. Cummings? Council Member Cummings: I just was going to add — have one quick question and then add a comment to-- In a typical, the examples you're giving of fees that are paid by developers, what percentage do we likely expect to make up for staff time on a project from fees? James David: It's a great question. I have not done that FTE analysis on how many staff hours it takes in Plan Review, and Planning and Zoning per application. Don't forget, you also have Utilities reviewer time, Public Works review time. Perhaps as we go towards the merger into one Community Development Department, we can evaluate that. Roughly speaking, I would say that looking at the amount of personnel costs for each budget versus how much revenue comes in, we're not recovering close to 50% of the time. Council Member Cummings: How much? James David: 50% close to recovery. Council Member Cummings: 50? Mayor Burk: 50. Council Member Cummings: 50? James David: 50, yes. Council Member Cummings: Sorry, I just couldn't hear. I'm getting old. Thanks. Then there was a comment about what this means for developers. In my conversations with affordable housing Page 8 July 10, 2023 developers, here in Loudoun County, but also across the Commonwealth, it's actually really important these fee waivers, as well as the expedited processes, because when they're doing their LITC grants from the State, the fee waiver, as well as the-- they're able to monetize the expediting of the process. That goes to the total amount of local investment into the project, thus getting them more money from the State or Federal grants far affordable housing. It's valuable beyond just the dollars and cents in and out of their pocket. Mayor Burk: Council Member Wilt? Council Member Wilt: Yes. Thank you. I asked my technical questions earlier. I wanted to back up and maybe understand, is there a method in which we size the need that we currently have? Where is the shortage in affordable housing, the magnitude of it? What's happening today with workers with the shortage? What's happening, businesses who can't-- How do we size that need, so we can understand the magnitude of it? James David: That is a big question. Now, we generally look at affordable housing as a regional challenge. We could certainly consult the Unmet Housing Needs Strategic Plan that the County put together, where they evaluated that need in terms of price of housing relative to what people are making, what they can't afford. I don't have the hard statistics for you tonight, but I can say anecdotally, you hear quite a bit about our service industry employees and the folks that are not even coming close to that area median income, which is pretty high, already can't find a place to live in Leesburg or the surrounding area that meets that rule of thumb of, "Hey, only spend 30% of your income on a house" What you end up having is a lot of folks that live outside of the County and commute in to these jobs. As far as the magnitude of the need, rd have to get back to you on some [inaudible]. Council Member Wilt: Okay, so we don't know if we maybe need a couple of projects with 50 units or 600 units? James David: I think it would probably be more close to the high end. Council Member Wilt: Okay, but [unintelligible] James David: Right. Council Member Wilt: So, we could find out some more information on that, some more specifics? James David: Absolutely, yes. Council Member Wilt: Then specifically in the County's program in terms of the need. The $400K, the four projects that they budgeted for, were those all executed? Was that $400K used up in the last couple of years? James David: Well, this actually doesn't start until July 1, 2023. Council Member Wilt: You don't have any date on that? James David: We don't have any date on that yet. Just to clarify, the $400K, I don't think needs necessarily be four projects. It could be spread across a lot of projects. It's just $100K per project, which is where we were thinking about 75 and 150. Council Member Wilt: In terms of also the need, have we had any projects proposed that have not gone forward for any reason? James David: We just have one in the hopper right now. As we said earlier, I don't think if we would get to a place where we adopted this legislation where it would apply. Council Member Wilt: Thanks. Page 91July 10, 2023 Mayor Burk: I want to understand again, if there is affordable housing development that comes to Leesburg, they can get the County's fee waivers up to $100K. James David: If it's in the County, and it meets these eligibility criteria, then -- Mayor Burk: No, I mean if it's in Leesburg. James David: If it's in Leesburg -- Evan Harlow: The building permit fees would be building permit, electrical, plumbing. All those fees would be through the County. If they meet the eligibility requirements for the County, as well as the Town, then the possibility is yes. they could apply and receive waivers for both jurisdictions. The building permit fees for some of the projects that the County looked at, you're looking well over $100K in some cases. They set the cap at $100K because it did provide some coverage of the fees to cover the cost for inspections and plan review, but also provided a significant chunk to the affordable housing developer. $100K was their cap which still provided benefits on both sides. Mayor Burk: Then my other question is about the Fast -Track. Mr. Wilt made reference to things will have to be re -prioritized, and some things will have to move down the list. Not go to the bottom but move down the list to move these other things to the top. Is that correct? James David: Correct. That's how it's currently operating now in the County with their Fast -Track commercial incentive. Kaj Dentler: Can I just jump in on that on one point though? Although, yes, the priorities can be rearranged, staff still has a variety of State -mandated deadlines that we have to hit on reviews. Its not like -- staff has to get the reviews out. They can't just sit on it because there are other priorities. They may not be able to get-- They may be really close to the deadline or right on the deadline, but they'll never finish it early. The point about the additional staff, whether it's one staff, two staff, whatever it might be, that's a key part in order to make it truly effective. You can't expect that the staff can just produce and meet the expedited deadlines should we wish to do it. I think more research would have to be done if Council is very interested in an expedited process. The State -mandated deadlines are very important for you to remember. You can't just disregard that. Mayor Burk: Good point. Vice Mayor? Vice Mayor Steinberg: To the Mayor's point, I just want to clarify something. Regardless of what kind of project, any kind of project that takes place within Town limits, there are certain fees that are Town specific. We have Plan Review fees and all those. There are also, for any kind of project, there are fees that always fall on the County. We don't have a Building Inspection Department. We don't inspect plumbing or electrical or anything like that. Are we thinking to include the relatively simple fees, permits, and so on for that? Or are we just looking at the big -ticket items that are the most costly, or that's up to us, of course? Evan Harlow: Yes. The County has all administrative fees are eligible, so that's grading permits, building permits, all the trade permits, site plans, [unintelligible] alterations. Vice Mayor Steinberg: So, that's up to them? Evan Harlow: That's up to them. For us, we're considering administrative as well, so that'd be your zoning permits, your site plans, subdivision applications. Certainly, would be up to the Council ultimately to decide which applications they -- Vice Mayor Steinberg: Again, regardless of the type of project, there are always County fees that we don't take care of because we don't have those expenses or those departments. We do have our own in-house things. All right, thanks. Mayor Burk: Mr. Cummings? Page 101July 10, 2023 Council Member Cummings: I just wanted to make one point. Council Member Wilt brought up the need. The Dulles Area Association of Realtors, the median household price per house in May was $710K. The area median income is 150, 140, give or take. I think that those two figures show the need for affordable housing and workforce development housing and the fact that our teachers, our police, our firefighters, our HVAC workers, a lot of them live in West Virginia or Clarke County, not in Loudoun County. I think that that just drives home the point that we need programs like this, because right now the tail is wagging the dog, but if were able to get programs in place that incentivize folks to build truly affordable houses here, not houses that are at $710K, then we'll be able to fulfill homes for folks who work here and they can live here and enjoy our own community. Mayor Burk: All right. I guess you want some direction from us. Let me look at the back. Are there four people? Is it four? What's the number since we have two people gone. Chris Spera: [unintelligible] Mayor Burk: Still four. All right. Are there four people that want to look into the fee waiver program? Council Member Wilt: Investigate, investigate further. We're not voting to create one today. Mayor Burk: Right. Okay, so that moves forward, and expedite the review program. Do we want to look into that? Okay. That one I would vote no for. I mean, I would not be interested in doing that one. All right, thank you very much. You know where to go from here? James David: Yes, ma'am. Mayor Burk: You're looking at me kind of confused. Are you -- James David: Well, I just wanted to clarify, so the direction is to establish these programs or to do further research? Mayor Burk: It's to do further research. James David: We're not bringing back an initiating resolution, just more details? Mayor Burk: I didn't get that impression that that's what people wanted at this point, they wanted more information. Is that correct? Did I read that right? Vice Mayor Steinberg: Especially regarding the [inaudible] Fast -Track process. I think its the biggest [unintelligible] Mayor Burk: Okay. Mr. Wilt, do you? Council Member Wilt: Yes, I think that was it. In terms of like the fee waivers, I'm not signing up to a budget loss right at this moment. I want to understand what we can do with that, if we can go forward with that and if we need staff for an expedited review. I don't know if that's half a staff, four staff, so I don't have enough to vote on anything tonight. Mayor Burk: Okay. Mr. Cummings. Council Member Cummings: I would just say, I think it would be great that the staff has prepared the information of what other municipalities and localities do. Now let's give maybe come back to us with what would be the Leesburg version of this and then we see if it works. Mayor Burk: That's not what the others are asking for at this point. Page 11jJuly 10, 2023 Council Member Cummings: I guess I'm unsure of what other information is needed. We're going to ask staff to go do more research on something, rather than just create something that works for Leesburg and then we can give it an up or down vote. Council Member Wilt: I think I would agree with that. Mayor Burk: That way you have three. You want them to initiate, so are there four votes that want to initiate affordable housing program? Council Member Cummings: Is it initiating it if they have to come back and then we have an up and down vote on it? I don't believe that's initiating. I don't think it makes sense to have staff go do more research on something they've already done the research on. Where I feel like what I'm hearing from fellow Council Members is that they're not ready to say, "Go do it and implement it. We want to know what were going to implement." Council Member Wilt: Right. That's defining it. Council Member Cummings: Yes. Council Member Wilt: That's further information. Mayor Burk: Okay, but we got to make it so that they understand, so-- Kaj Dentler: Madam Mayor, can I make a suggestion that we just have another work session? Well further develop what the Leesburg program is, with more specifics and budget impacts, and then we'll have a work session. From that you can decide if you're ready to vote. We can have legislation ready for you to vote, but you won't have to vote on that if you're not comfortable. I would prefer that you have another work session, because I have some concerns if we go into this program, and I want to make sure that I understand the budget impacts and that you understand the budget impacts - Mayor Burk: All right, is that-- Kaj Dentler: -before we go. Because I'm not convinced that one staff person is going to accomplish the mission if this program comes through. The Town has only had one expedited program development that we've done in all the years that I have been here and that was K2M which is now Stryker and that took basically our entire engineering and planning staff to make it work. Mayor Burk: Yes. I remember that. Kaj Dentler: If a big project comes in, I have concerns if one engineer can actually handle all the work. Maybe that's true, maybe it's not. I think that internally, we have to have deeper conversations to give you a confident answer of what the cost and implications are, so I think another work session is appropriate. Mayor Burk: Oh, are there four votes for another work session on this item? Vice Mayor Steinberg: To flush it out. Yes. Kaj Dentler: Okay. Mayor Burk: Okay. That's everybody. Okay, thank you for helping make him less confused. Vice Mayor Steinberg: He's just back from vacation. James David: Thank you for the vote. Mayor Burk: Thank you. All right, the next one is the Evaluate the Development of a Business Incubator Entrepreneur Program. Page 12IJuly 10, 2023 Russell Seymour: Good evening, Madam Mayor, and Members of Council. I wanted to talk to you a little bit about the Incubator/Entrepreneurial Program. There are currently several avenues that a locality can take to provide support for small businesses. We can talk a little bit this evening about physical locations. We can talk about partnership with educational institutions and other types of service providers. Then also looking at in-house service where we would actually add staff to do something in-house, expand our department or other departments with that. If you look at three primary examples, when you look at a physical location, for the most part, you're looking at three primary examples. That's the typical business incubator, the business accelerator, and then also coworking spaces. Now these are three common types that you see, but each has a very different focus group. When you start to look at the three of those, you're really talking about three different areas or focus groups. The first thing we want to do is understand what the differences are between those. An incubator specifically is your typical for startups. That's your startup business. That is a business that has not been around, it may be working in somebody's garage. It's an idea, it's a concept, and they're looking for not only information on how to set up the business, but really also then looking at how to run that business. It truly is the startup to getting that business off the ground. Typically, these will look at a time period that you're in an incubator. If you have a physical location for an incubator, you would look at a matter of two years. Something along those lines where the business then idea would be to graduate and then move forward. It is important to note though, that an incubator does not necessarily have to have a physical location. While in a lot of cases, they do, you're looking more at providing education. You're providing how to set up a business and how to go through the process. They may not necessarily need a physical location. When you get to accelerator, now you're looking at something that you have a business and your business has been started maybe in that small one office and now you're looking to graduate, you're looking to move into that next step. You're looking at hiring additional staff, you're looking at going after different contracts, something along those lines. You're expanding your business. One of the things we noted in here is that in all of the examples that we looked at, almost all of them across the country focused on some type of technology or a tech company. You see a lot of the accelerated programs focusing on those types of companies that we have. Again, does not necessarily require a physical location. Then you're looking at coworking spaces. Now, coworking spaces are, and it's important to remember, they are a business in their own. You may have a lease on a space, you may own a building, and then you sublet that building to different organizations or businesses, that's the coworking model. Those do require a physical location and when I say that these are the most common type of systems, we right now have seven of these soon possibly to be eight in Leesburg. These are predominantly tied -- all of our seven right now are tied to our HUB zone. That is one thing that you'll see, they require a physical space. You can get a desk or an office. They collect your mail, some provide staff service. Most do not. Basically, you are leasing a physical location in a coworking space. They also have, as I said, the business of the coworker is a separate business from the businesses that are in there. We talk a little bit about examples of partnership programs for incubators and then also for the entrepreneurial. These partnership programs and I've listed an example here are the SBDC and also partnering with George Mason University. I've also spoken with Manassas and with Herndon and the reason being is that both of those organizations, Manassas and Herndon, have recently started programs something along the lines of what we're talking about this evening. And that is these are programs that are focused on working either with the SBDC or working with an outside organization to answer questions for businesses, to provide, not space, but basically provide an opportunity for training for these businesses. When we look at the Town of Herndon, and we'll come back to that one, as I mentioned, both programs started in 2023. Page 13[July 10, 2023 They have done by far what I would think to be the most impressive job with what they're looking for and how they run those small businesses. More of that information is in your packet that you have before you, but they specifically bring in trainers from George Mason University to actually teach certain courses, and they're done over multiple times. They break them down weekly. There are some that are done quarterly and then there's some that are done annually, depending on the type of business. They gear that toward the needs of the businesses in that community. It's not a blanket as you would for say a class. It's something that you specifically need that's a generated need from that community. Northern Virginia Community College is another group that we've spoken to, and I put down on here, we talk about the entrepreneur certificate program Grow Manassas, which is actually a program that is not specific for a business, but the city of Manassas will pay for anybody that's interested for services or for training that actually would go through and start a business. If you're in the city of Manassas, you're interested in starting a business, there's this entrepreneurship program through Grow Manassas that would allow you to step in and do that. They use instructors from Northern Virginia Community College. The other one here with the dots that I put on is because in talking with NOVA, when I say starting up, they really are just starting up. We had some really good conversations. They had a lot of ideas. They listened to some of the ideas that I provided and things that we've heard here, and they're very interested in learning more and possibly developing that process with us. There's an open door with NOVA as well. Now, the private sector partnerships, this is an interesting one, whereas the Town has actually been approached by an organization, for example, that is interested in opening an incubator. That they would like to do is, this is a business, they do their own operations, but they are very interested in helping other startup community or startup businesses. They would look at training, they would look at bringing in, whether they're instructors from outside organizations or from within their own business community. This would be something that they would do, and they would cover everything from having, when we talked about your coworking space, your mail, your desk space, but then also providing the support, which is not something that you see in the co -working diagram, if you will. The Town support, if you wanted to go follow this pattern, you could do a couple of things. It could be financial support, it could also be in physical space or promotion. They're not asking us for anything other than just helping to promote something along these lines, something we're looking at but it is another option that involves the private sector. Now, give you another example of an in-house program. I use the example of Launch Loudoun and there is another one that just started also in March of this year, and that is Thrive by Fairfax County. Both of these are set up. Loudoun County is hiring additional staff in their Economic Development Department to focus on providing information about existing programs and that's the critical difference between what Loudoun is doing now and what Fairfax is doing. Fairfax actually has a budget where they're providing money for grants and for training for businesses putting out there. It's not just showing you where they're at and working with you one on one. Fairfax is actually putting money aside to do that, and they're looking at providing, I believe it was 600 businesses as they're going through this process. Those are two different, but it does include relying on other public entities that are out there, public services, attaching to private grants, anything along those lines. It does create the need for additional staff in both of those organizations. Mentioned incubator style, coworking spaces. Of the four incubators that we have, these are incubators that specialize in certain things. Both AWL Creative, CEO consulting, focus on women -owned businesses. Makersmiths focuses on manufacturing. Then Chefscape focuses obviously on restaurants or chef catering, those types of venues. The coworking spaces I mentioned, we have seven, possibly an eighth one on the way, but all of those are within our existing HUB zone. The recommendations we have this evening are twofold. I started by saying the what and what not, again, focus on local needs. One of the things that we talked about in looking at outside organizations, whether they were other colleges or universities, is you have to break the mold of trying to do something that is focused on-- I'm looking, I'm going to go Page 14IJuly 10, 2023 quick-- that's focused on things that they're already doing. They need to know, what our business's needs here are. That's a critical one. Looking at the basic setup skills, something that we've heard over and over again, from the startup businesses that are in Leesburg is they don't know how to go through the process of starting up, that educational piece that's on there. Avoid duplication, and then don't compete with private sector groups that are already doing it. I believe that as we move forward, we can continue to expand initiatives, our staff are already doing training with some of these other groups that we're talking about. It's not only staff from our office but also from other Town departments that are going in and doing the startup business training courses with some of the incubator programs that we have out there now. I would look to continue those initiatives, look to identify new partners that are out there and opportunities where they are existing. We specifically look at the SBDC and creating a separate program with them that would focus on our specific location or our locality, but then also looking at working in expanding with NOVA. With that, I know I'm a couple seconds over, I will -- Mayor Burk: Actually, a minute 16. Russell Seymour: I know. I'm watching. I will be glad to answer any questions that I can. Mayor Burk: All right, thank you. Questions? Mr. Cimino -Johnson? Excuse me, Dr. Cimino -Johnson. Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Yes, thank you. Thank you, Russell for the presentation. I guess my first question is any idea on cost, if we would go down the route you're talking about? Russell Seymour: One of the things that I've asked from the SBDC was to give us an example, a proposal coming in. They've provide us that but not the cost, I can tell you that as of right now, the Town pays $75K, or has an item, a budget item for 75K for the SBDC. If we were to look at doing something, I asked them to focus an that number, so that were staying within our budget, even if were not providing them actually a physical location. That's what they are providing us with now. Somewhere in that neighborhood. Wth NOVA, it would be a little bit different, because wed actually be bringing in training facilities. They're excited about it, but they didn't have any of that information yet. Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Okay. Yes, I'm looking at Grow Manassas Now and I didn't see anything about cost on there at all. It looks like a pretty cool program that they're launching with this. Russell Seymour: The Grow Manassas program and again, its not business specific, it's just if anybody's interested in it, they can start their business. Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Do we know if anybody is doing any type of training in Leesburg or Loudoun County, other than County Government on startup, like starting a business? Russell Seymour: Yes, and the County Government is not doing it yet. They're gearing up to do that but then what they'll be doing is putting you in touch with the businesses or the groups that are. When you look at those AWL, that group in particular is probably doing-- that's the AWL Creative, it's here in Downtown. That organization is probably doing the best example because what they're doing is you've got set classes that are go over a certain period of time over a number of weeks throughout a course of usually its over a quarter of a year. Then that information, they bring in trainers and like I said we've had our staff goes in, they teach us certain things. We've had people from the Town Finance Department that have gone in and have taught them here's how you start a business. It's answering those questions for them. Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Okay, does that cost something to the person? Page 15lJuly 10, 2023 Russell Seymour: It does. There is a fee and you look at their website, there's an entire fee schedule, based on where you want to go. They have different levels of membership, and that's what most of them do. They have different membership levels. Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Okay. Any idea on cost off the top of your head? Russell Seymour: Not off the top of my head. I can tell you that its probably one of the more affordable ones when we've looked at it compared to some of the ones that outside of Leesburg and outside of the County. They are very affordable for what they're providing. Council Member Cimino -Johnson: I'm thinking about someone who's making minimum wage or above minimum wage and they want to start a business, but cost is prohibitive. Russell Seymour: Cost is going to be very prohibitive. I think some of it too is understanding the cost of actually creating the business, the entity in of itself. Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Thank you. Mayor Burk: Anyone else have any questions? Vice Mayor? Vice Mayor Steinberg: Thanks for the presentation, Russell. What's the status of the SBDC or whatever it actually is at this point that uses space at 15 North King? Russell Seymour: We right now have an agreement that's a joint agreement with Loudoun County. That is they Provide funds, we provide a physical location for the SBDC. The SBDC right now is currently in 15 North on the second floor. With COVID and following after COVID, the SBDC like most organizations do a lot of their work remotely. They're not actually in need of that physical space like they used to be. Almost all of the requests that they get are for virtual meetings or virtual round tables. We are still providing them space. They are still doing those. They're still located here for the time being in Leesburg, but they serve all of Loudoun County in the same format. These are virtual meetings at this point. Moving forward, we've looked at making sure that we provide them and we will continue to provide them bidding space. If they're looking for any type of, we're bringing in local businesses, we will continue to provide them with that space. Vice Mayor Steinberg: Does the County have any intention of providing a space for that purpose? Russell Seymour: The County does have intention of providing space for the SBDC should the SBDC move out to where the County Economic Development offices are located. Predictably, those would come online in the fall of this year. Vice Mayor Steinberg: That is where again? Russell Seymour: That is east of us here. It's where the Loudoun Economic Development offices are. It's near the Ashburn area. Vice Mayor Steinberg: Has Mr. Byrd indicated that he could operate on that basis and maybe on occasion require space here in Leesburg, or what's his opinion? Russell Seymour: Yes. Mr. Byrd and I have talked about this on occasion and where he is focusing right now is he's looking at -- they do almost everything virtual. He can do that pretty much anywhere he is located. The physical location is more of a County requirement than it is for the SBDC. As long as we would still have it providing him an opportunity that should they want to have some type of meeting here in Leesburg, which we will provide, they can continue to operate virtually and maybe one or two days a week showing up in a physical office in Loudoun County. Vice Mayor Steinberg: Out of curiosity, why did GMU decide to disassociate or separate themselves from the Small Business Development Center? Page 16lJuly 10, 2023 Russell Seymour: They didn't. Vice Mayor Steinberg: Oh, they didn't? Russell Seymour: No. George Mason is set up. A number of years ago, the State of Virginia had the SBDC under the Virginia umbrella. That then they decided they were not going to do that any longer so they put it out to bid. George Mason actually won the bid, and they distribute the SBDC funding and program for all of the State of Virginia. They are still very much tied to that. All SBDCs in the State of Virginia run through George Mason. Vice Mayor Steinberg: What do we lose if in effect the program relocates to Ashburn, but on occasion comes back to Leesburg for physical meetings? Russell Seymour: Based on what were seeing right now, we're not losing because the majority of in fact, I would say in the times that we've shared, I could probably count on one hand, maybe a couple of fingers left over of physical meetings in the Leesburg office. Most of them were done in restaurants, they're done at coffee bars, or they're done virtually. I don't see that changing, nor does Eric see that changing anytime soon. They would have a presence in Loudoun County. Again, that's not a George Mason requirement. That's not an SBDC requirement, that's coming from the County. Vice Mayor Steinberg: In your estimation, we can still provide a robust program? Russell Seymour: Absolutely. Both the SBDC, but also part of what were looking at is how, instead of looking at just an umbrella where were working with the County and relying on them, what I'm looking at is moving forward with a program that we would then be adding more to. We're creating more of a Leesburg centric program that's focused on the businesses here utilizing either the SBDC/George Mason or another outside organization. Vice Mayor Steinberg: Thank you. Mayor Burk: Council member Wilt? Council Member Wilt: I think I'm confused. I need some clarification. Currently were providing some office space to the s SBDC. Russell Seymour: Correct. Council Member Wilt: Is that our engagement, so then I'm not sure what were being asked to support in developing beyond that and what value add the Town has in this business support. Russell Seymour: We were asked to look at entrepreneurship or incubator type programs. An incubator is something that I don't believe the Town should go out and try to create, where actually we would physically lease a building. We would operate the building or bring somebody else in to operate it. I don't think we need to do that, and I don't think we're in a position to do that. What were looking at is how do we add in talking with the businesses, what's missing? We look at the samples of the incubators that are out there now. We look at the multitude of coworking spaces, but really the question has come down to is what's missing? What is it that the small businesses or the startup is missing? The one thing that we keep continuously hearing from them is "How do we start the educational process?" "How do we start a business?' "I make a great remote, but I don't know how to start my business." The SBDC does some of that, but they do it on a very small scale and they're covering the entire Loudoun County. We were asked to look into are there other opportunities that we should consider? Are there other ideas? Are there other groups out there doing something? That's what we're bringing to you this evening, is the recommendation would be to continue to look for those, but also then look for opportunities to expand our partnerships to provide services that the local businesses are not getting provided right now. Page 17IJuly 10, 2023 Council Member Wilt: As we go forward some clarification because I've started up a variety of different kinds of businesses from my current hospitality brewery by a publishing partnership with Simon 8 Schuster in a tech company in Silicon Valley. I'd be curious, there are resources that are needed to start up a company. I'd be interested in what the Town of Leesburg has in terms of skills and knowledge of how to start up a business that would be valuable to that community. Russell Seymour: I would look at it this way. What the Town of Leesburg could do would be to make sure that if you're starting a business in Leesburg, we can show them, staff can work with the businesses to go, "Here's what you need to do to set up your business license." "Here's how you start to set up your tax base." All of that documentation to actually physically start a business in Leesburg. That's something that has been missing. Council Member Wilt: If it's just limited to that, I understand that. Russell Seymour: That's the first part. Council Member Wilt: That's a small part of starting up an entrepreneurial business. Russell Seymour: Unquestionably, it's the other pieces that we would be looking to either direct them to, which is what we've been doing now is directing them to whether its SBDC, whether its a different other organization or we would be going after looking at setting up a partnership with an outside group, which is what you're starting to see now in Manassas and Herndon, Virginia. Council Member Wilt: I think other businesses, what they do, in my experience, they would go to, I was in Dallas, you go to SMU University for entrepreneurial startup resources. I didn't go to the City of Dallas or I went to Stanford University in Northern California. There are groups of investors, groups of business coaches, things along these lines. If the municipality is going to get involved in it, we have a specific mission of what value add could be. Russell Seymour: When you look at it, I bet you if you looked at, there's programs at SMU, you mentioned Stanford, the locality is involved in it at some point, somewhere in there. Maybe not predominantly financially. but there's some connection that they're working with them. Localities tend to utilize, whether it's George Mason, in our case that we did for years or Loudoun is doing now. I know William and Mary for that area down there, the localities focus on them. Also from the standpoint, when you look at bringing in the private sector investors, now you're looking at accelerators and that's really the big difference. That's not the small person that's looking necessarily to start a business. When you start bringing investors in and starting to have-- and we have a couple here in our region that look to do that. They're predominantly looking to fund that business that's starting to move up from that standpoint. A little bit of a difference between the two. Council Member Wilt: My point is for a public municipality role it has to be very clear - Russell Seymour: Absolutely. Council Member Wilt: -what the value add can be. Russell Seymour: Absolutely. Council Member Wilt: The municipality can't be everything. It doesn't have the skill sets or the knowledge to be everything, so it just has to be very clear on what its role is. Russell Seymour: A lot of it is, I always like to say, the one -stop shop. You come to a locality or you would come to an office and we would be able to assess what your needs were and then direct you to the right area. We can't provide it. You're absolutely right. What I'd like to do is be able to direct them in the right space. Council Member Wilt: All right. Thanks, Russell. Page 18IJuly 10, 2023 Mayor Burk: All right, Russell, what do you need from us tonight? You just want us to hear what your recommendations are and to say, yay, go forward? Russell Seymour: Well, this came from the Council in your retreat. Wanting to make sure that we've addressed or we've looked at it from a staff standpoint, what you were looking for, bringing up this information following through. Then if you're comfortable with us moving forward as we've been, not only with what were doing in staff but then also now looking at creating similar programs that are based on Leesburg -specific information for the businesses that are here in Leesburg. Mayor Burk: All right. Is everybody comfortable with how staff is proceeding at this point? Yes, yes. Great. Thank you. Russell Seymour: Thank you. Mayor Burk: Thank you for the information. The ne Mr. Dentler? em is Legislative Aides for Council Members, Kaj Dentler: No presentation. Sorry. You asked as Council for a discussion on potentially having legislative aides. The staff report is very short. In any case we know, we haven't done that in the past. If you want to do it, we would've to go further into how many hours a week are we talking, how many aides are we talking. Are we talking housing for staffing or for the aide and the Council Members? I think tonight really should be a discussion on conceptually, do you want to have legislative aides working for you as an individual or as a group et cetera? If you have a desire to go further, then I will explore it further. When we look at the Board of Supervisors not able to figure out exactly what their budget is individually. It's lumped in, but each supervisor has a certain amount of funding that they can use for their aide. In general, they could use most of it for one aide or they can split it up amongst three or four. Mayor, you lived in that and worked in that world, so you know, in general. I think the purpose of tonight to be most successful would be for you to have a conceptual discussion. Is this something that you're even interested in? Then I will be able to go further should you wish to pursue that. Mayor Burk: All right. Then before we even begin the discussion, I'll put out there, are there four people that are interested in having an aide at this point? There is not, so there's no moving forward on that. All right. There's no proclamations and future Council meetings. Mr. Wilt? Council Member Wilt: No, ma'am. Mayor Burk: Vice Mayor? Vice Mayor Steinberg: No, Mayor. Mayor Burk: Mr. Cummings? Council Member Cummings: No. Mayor Burk: Dr. Cimino -Johnson? Council Member Cimino -Johnson: No items. Mayor Burk: I just have one. That request is to the Town Attorney. We had a letter from one of the commission chairs requesting that they have the ability to cancel meetings if needed if they don't have quorum. At this point it's been interpreted that they do not, so we need to change the wording to allow, what is it from -- Speaker 1: [unintelligible] Mayor Burk: -- shall, so if they find that they don't have a quorum or they have a holiday that interferes, that they do have the option. We might want to limit it to [inaudible] times a year or Page 19lJuIy 10, 2023 something along those lines. If I have four people that would be interested in having the Town Attorney Look into this and come back to us with a report on [inaudible] would be interested in. Christopher Spera: Excuse me. Thank you, Madam Mayor. That's something that the Town Clerk and I have discussed. One of the things that we've talked about is setting up a maximum of meeting once per month, but then setting a floor of no less than say, 10 or 9 times annually, something like that. That's something that we had discussed. I understand your instruction and well consult among staff and bring you back something to look at. Mayor Burk: All right. Thank you. Is there a motion to adjourn? Vice Mayor Steinberg: So, moved. Mayor Burk: Second? Council Member Cummings: Second. Mayor Burk: All in favor? Council Members: Aye. Mayor Burk: Anybody opposed? We are adjourned. Page 20IJuly 10, 2023