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HomeMy Public PortalAbout12-10-1997PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES - DECEMBER 9, 1997 PRESENT: ELIZABETH WEIR, JERRY BROST, ANNE HEIDEMAN, CAROLYN SMITH, SUSIE MACKAY, FRANK MIGNONE, KATHY COOK AND BRUCE WORKMAN. ALSO PRESENT: PLANNING AND ZONING ADMINISTRATOR LOREN KOHNEN, CITY ENGINEER GLENN COOK AND PLANNING AND ZONING ASSISTANT SANDIE LARSON. ABSENT: LENNY LEUER Anne Heideman announced to the planning commission that they would be meeting with the park commission on Saturday, January 10th to discuss portions of the comprehensive plan. Chairperson Anne Heideman called the meeting to order at 7:42 p.m. 1. MINUTES OF NOVEMBER 11, 1997 Frank Mignone corrected on page 2, towards the end of the page in his comment, change `clear' to clean. MOVED BY CAROLYN SMITH AND SECONDED BY ELIZABETH WEIR TO APPROVE THE MINUTES AS CORRECTED. MOTION PASSED. 2. LANCE BEAULIEU - 2662 HAMEL ROAD - 2 LOT SUBDIVISION - PUBLIC HEARING - 7:44 P.M. Loren Kohnen read his memo the planning commission. He corrected his memo to read that the outlot located at Hamel Road would be 60' wide at Hamel Road x 100' in depth. He put up an overhead of the proposal and pointed out where the outlot would be located. Sandie Larson said that Lenny had questions on the barn setbacks on Lot 1 and also wanted to know if there was living quarters in the barn. Lance Beaulieu said that a girl lived in the barn that took care of the horses and Loren said that the barn met the setbacks in our ordinance. James S. Lane, 2605 Hamel Road, said that he was o.k. with this subdivision with having the single access, but wondered if the access was addressed if Lot 2 was further divided. There was discussion if Lot 2 could be further divided and it probably could, but Lance said that he was selling it as one building site and was not interested in having more than one site there. 1 L. Kohnen said that Lot 2 had to access from the 60'x100' outlot. Carolyn Smith wanted to know why it could not be up higher if the home was built on the north side of the lot. L. Kohnen said that if there was an agreement with Beaulieu's to access from their lot, it was possible, but the idea of the outlot is so that there is only one access to Hamel Road. Public hearing closed at 7:56 p.m. MOVED BY JERRY BROST AND SECONDED BY CAROLYN SMITH TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE 2 LOT SUBDIVISION AT 2662 HAMEL ROAD WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS: 1. Outlot to be 60' wide and 100' in depth 2. Noted that the 1991 letter from the city engineer, the cul de sac is not relevant and not required. MOTION PASSED This proposal will go to the city council on January 6, 1998 2. McDONALD'S - 822 HIGHWAY #55 - VARIANCE FOR SIGN AREA - PUBLIC HEARING - 7:57 P.M. Loren Kohnen read his memo to the planning commission and put up overheads of the proposed sign. He said that the height of the sign was not in questions, it met the ordinance, it was the square footage of the area. He pointed out on the overhead how the square footage was measured and because the area is `squared' off, more that the sign itself is included in the square footage. Frank Mignone asked if we had done other variances like this. L. Kohnen said not since he has been with Medina. Bruce Workman asked if this sign was made to order or if it was `off the rack'. Tom Drews, McDonald's, said that it is a stock sign. B. Workman asked if there was a smaller model that would meet our ordinance. T. Drews said that the next sign down is extremely smaller, '/2 of this sign. B. Workman asked if it could be custom made. 2 L. Kohnen asked if a variance was required when they put up the Mobile horse. Anne Heideman said that she recalled that a variance was granted for that. B. Workman said that he is concerned that if we allow this variance, although a small variance, it would set a precedence for the future. Susie Mackay asked Tom for examples of messages that would be on the reader board part of the sign. T. Drews said that specials on sandwiches and also special sandwiches that they have for 4 weeks at a time. Also special city events, birthdays, community orientated messages, etc. L. Kohnen said that McDonald's could get around this by putting up 2 separate sigs, which our ordinance allows. C. Smith asked why they could have 2 signs. L. Kohnen said that our ordinance does not limit the number of signs, only the size. C. Smith said that is something that the planning commission should address and also how the square footage is measured. B. Workman asked Tom what the option was and Tom said the 2nd sign. S. Mackay said couldn't we say we are granting this in the interest in avoiding additional clutter with an additional sign. B. Workman asked if the reader board could be made smaller. T. Drews said that would have to be a custom made sign and could triple the cost. B. Workman asked if triple the cost would be more than another sign. He then asked Tom if he thought the size in our ordinance was unreasonable. T. Drews said that most cities consider the surface square footage and not squared off like we do. C. Smith said that she personally does not like reader boards. She feels that they obstruct a drivers vision and attention. T. Drews said that it is important for McDonald's to carry messages to their customers. Sandie Larson mentioned a phone call from Bill Toles of Tol-O-Matic regarding the sign. He wanted the commission to consider the smallest sign possible and also to take into consideration the rural character of the area and would hope that it would stay that way. Jerry Brost wanted to know if we could be a percentage amount on the variance. B. Workman said he looks at this as a major corporation wanting to do something different than our ordinance allows and would rather have 2 signs than try and meet the rules. C. Smith said she would like to try to find an innovative way to solve this. MOVED BY KATHY COOK AND SECONDED BY ELIZABETH WEIR TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF AN 8.3 SQUARE FOOT VARIANCE FOR McDONALD'S AT 822 HIGHWAY 55 FOR THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE SIGN INCLUDING THE READER BOARD WITH THE FOLLOWING HARDSHIP: IT WILL BE SAFER THAN HAVING A 2ND SIGN FOR THE READER BOARD. MOTION PASSED WITH 5 AYES AND 3 NAYS. Carolyn Smith, Susie Mackay and Bruce Workman voting nay. MOVED BY KATHY COOK AND SECONDED BY CAROLYN SMITH TO REVIEW THE CITY'S SIGN ORDINANCE REGARDING THE NUMBER OF SIGNS ALLOWED PER PROPERTY AND ALSO HOW THE SQUARE FOOTAGE IS MEASURED AT A MEETING ON OR BEFORE 6-1-98. MOTION PASSED 3. OFFICIAL DENIAL OF ORIGINAL APPLICATIONS FROM JOE FRANCIS/HOLIDAY - 8:20 P.M. MOVED BY CAROLYN SMITH AND SECONDED BY ELIZABETH WEIR TO RECOMMEND DENIAL OF THE ORIGINAL APPLICATION FOR REPLATTING FROM JOE FRANCIS. MOTION PASSED. MOVED BY CAROLYN SMITH AND SECONDED BY FRANK MIGNONE TO RECOMMEND DENIAL OF THE ORIGINAL APPLICATION FROM JOE FRANCIS FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A HOLIDAY STATION/LIQUOR STORE. MOTION PASSED. 4. JOE FRANCIS/BERTHIAUME COMMERCIAL LAWN & SNOW INC. - RE -PLAT OF PROPERTY - PUBLIC HEARING - 8:23 P.M. 4 Loren Kohnen read his memo to the planning commission regarding the re -platting of property. He put up an overhead of the proposed plat and pointed out Clydesdale Trail and mentioned that in the future this road would possibly go west to County Road 116. He talked of the improvements that would be made to County Road 101 by the applicant including a north bound left turn lane. Loren stated that there were no set back problems with the buildings on the Berthiaume property and that the access for both Holiday and Berthiaume's would come off of Clydesdale. Susie Mackay said that with the Dorweiler property currently being zoned multi -residential the future traffic could be much higher if developed with that zoning. Kathy Cook asked if the future of Clydesdale was a given. Bruce Workman asked if this was where we wanted Clydesdale to go through the Cates property and how does Cates feel about it. L. Kohnen said that he had talked to Bob Matson, a partner of Cates, last night and he said they realize that they have to give somethings up to get something in the future. B. Workman said that he thought that access to Clydesdale from Lot 2 (Berthiaume's) was a good idea. L. Kohnen said that he parked there (at proposed entrance for Clydesdale) for a long time and that he could see very well from this location for a great distance. Carolyn Smith said that she was concerned about going south from Clydesdale and that there should be a right turn lane, it would be much safer. Jerry Brost wondered if there was room for three lanes. Jim Grube, Hennepin County, said that it is always safer to use turn lanes, As we looked at this proposal we were satisfied. He said that the county threshold did not seek a right turn lane from the applicant. C. Smith wanted to know if a current traffic count had been looked at. J. Grube said yes. He said it is a policy issue to have your city engineer to look at this. He said that the county was reasonably satisfied with what was before the commission tonight. L. Kohnen said that maybe more would have to be done if the Cates property developes. A. Heideman said that there was an ultimate proposal for Co. Rd. 101 north but does not know where it would be. 5 S. Mackay mentioned the letter received from Randy Mayer. She wanted to know why this road proposal is adequate when the other one was not. Jim Grube said the previous application had Clydesdale further to the south and the view was obstructed looking to the north. With the road farther to the north there is a better sight line plus the turn lane, so the conditions are much safer. L. Kohnen put up an overhead and pointed out where the old proposal was versus the new. He said that in meeting with the county this was the best location. Loren said he would not like to see it farther to the north. He then asked who has sent the letter. Randy Mayer said he had. L. Kohnen said that if staff had received the letter they could have addressed the issues raised and Randy said that he felt it was more helpful to send it direct. Randy Mayer, business owner at 762 Highway #55, asked the size of the lots. Loren said that Lot 1 was 2.18 acres and Lot 2 was 1.68 acres with the outlot being .33 acres. R. Mayer said that he did not agree with the final placement of Clydesdale and then he asked about the design for 101, was it a median or a painted area and Jim Grube said it was a painted area. There was further discussion of the design of 101 with a right turn lane at 55 and a left turn lane going north for Clydesdale. Randy said that there should be additional lane farther up going south for right turns. There was further discussion of the placement of Clydesdale and Glenn Cook told Randy that Mr. Cates was aware of where it was going to be. R. Mayer asked that when the county recognized where the left turn lane would be going to Clydesdale, did they take into account the adding of the Cates property for access and Jim Grube said no. Randy also wanted to know if the property owners farther to the north were talked to. A. Heideman said that maybe it is on assumption but do not know of anything now happening farther to the north. R. Mayer said that with the potential of the Cates property developing what traffic control devices can we expect to see - 3 way stop - signal - median if necessary - He said he was asking Jim Grube, the expert, what options do we have to control the traffic. 6 J. Grube said that it deserves an answer. He said what the future holds, we try to predict, but can't guarantee anything will happen. When an intersection becomes troublesome we look at it - also the accident history of the area. A. Heideman asked Randy to list his questions. R. Mayer said that there had been talk of affordable housing in the area S. Mackay asked Randy where he would put Clydesdale and he said he would put it as a buffer between residential and commercial farther to the north. There was further discussion of Clydesdale. A. Heideman said that there is no way the planning commission or city council can freeze future planning commissions or city councils in a pattern, we can only deal with what is currently in our comprehensive plan. Bruce Workman asked about the distance from Highway 55 to the proposed road. He mentioned the 200 acres to the north that is not developed yet and will the traffic flow be a concern, on or off Highway 55. A. Heideman said it is about 400 feet from the road to Highway 55. Steve Johnston, Landform Engineering, said it is 500 feet. G. Cook said that there will need to be more green time for the 101 traffic. A. Heideman said that will have to be a compromise between the state and the county. S. Johnston said they (Holiday) accomplished moving the road 75' farther to the north by acquiring property from the Berthiaume's. He said that there are two places available for Clydesdale, where indicated or at the southern end of Cherry Hill. He said that the outlot would be deeded to the City, would be a 9 ton road, left turn in lane, left turn out lane. He said that the majority of traffic to Holiday will come off of Highway 55 and then southbound 101. Carolyn Smith asked about the trail easement. S. Johnston said it would be on the property line. Steve also said that they have included 10 parking spaces for people getting gas. L. Kohnen said that they will address the parking in the conditional use permit. Ramona Steadman, 210 Cherry Hill Trail, said that she has lived here for 7 years and she is against any access off of County Road 101 without any major changes in the road. Especially in the winter when the road isn't taken care of that good. She said they would 7 have questioned buying in the area if they had known there would be access from 101 for development. Dave Mayer, 527 Rice Street, Wayzata, property owner in Medina, said that they had to do a right run lane and a trail easement for the McDonald's property. He said that this plan is all geared for going in and not back out. It is only fair that they have to do what we had to do. C. Smith wanted further explanation. D. Mayer said again that he had to do it and he should have to do it - a right turn lane going south. S. Johnston showed the plan once again. L. Kohnen said that this road issue will be addressed further when 101 is widened and then it will go to the east. Kathy Cook said she thought there should be a dedicated right turn lane going south. Paul Siqafus, 241 Cherry Hill Alcove, said that he is opposed to having Clydesdale farther to the north and he agrees with Ramona that the safety of 101 should include making the road wider and safer. A. Heideman said that this is a county prerogative. R. Steadman said don't let any property develop until it is safe. Tom Olson, 275 Cherry Hill Trail, wanted to know if the customer count of 1000 was gas only or all. Joe Francis said it was a total. F. Mignone wanted to know if the county had required the thru lane on 116. Jim Grube said that he can't say that we made them do it. C. Smith wanted to know if the county would say we were crazy to require additional upgrade of 101. J. Grube said that it would certainly help. A. Heideman said that we were soliciting new information and questions, that we do not need to keep re -working the same questions and information. 8 D. Mayer said that he was against the additional lane on 116 from the onset, but after seeing it, he is happy with it. A. Heideman wanted entered into the minutes, comment from Debbie Hildebrandt at 222 Cherry Hill Trail - They must improve 101 before entrance is off of 101. T. Olson asked if the sewer and the car wash were a concern and he was told no. B. Workman wanted to know who owned the property west of the Cate's property and Loren told him Raskob's and TRA. P. Sigafus wanted to know when the liquor store would be addressed and he was told after this part of the application. C. Smith wanted to know if the road issue was part of the re -plat and Loren said yes. S. Johnston said that the distance from the entrance to McDonald's south to Highway 55 is 300-350'. F. Mignone wanted to know if the Berthiaume property was in conformance after the re -plat and Loren said yes. C. Smith asked about the building to the south, that it looks too close. S. Johnston said that the building was coming down and pointed it out on the map. R. Mayer said that he disagrees with `grandfathering' in. He said that he thinks re -platting changes things and that the property should have to be in conformance. The public hearing was closed on the re -plat part of the application. MOVED BY ELIZABETH WEIR AND SECONDED BY KATHY COOK TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE LOT COMBINATION/RE-PLAT WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITION: 1. Access to the Berthiaume property to be off of Clydesdale Trail only. MOTION PASSED WITH 6 AYES' FRANK MIGNONE VOTING NAY AND BRUCE WORKMAN ABSTAINING HOLIDAY - CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT - PUBLIC HEARING - 9:53 P.M. Loren Kohnen read his memo to the planning commission and put up an overhead of the proposal. Sandie Larson read planning commissioner's Lenny Leuer comments and questions. 9 Jim Grube, Hennepin County, apologized to the planning commission and Loren for Dave Mayer having thought that the county required the turn lane. He said the philosophy of a right turn lane all the way down is from the standpoint on how people drive. The County's standpoint would be not to have it, people will turn right and then race with someone to be in the left lane. If the City wants the applicant to have the right turn lane all the way from Clydesdale to 55 - - Glenn Cook said that he had nothing to add. He said the traffic is relatively low now - the key issue is when the county is going to improve 101. Carolyn Smith said that at this point we have the option to suggest it now or wait and have it done by the county in the future. Tom Olson, Cherry Hill, said that it is a stacking issue, that sometimes it is stacked to top of hill in the morning and this lane would help that. J. Grube said yes and he also said that he has said he has no idea where 101 would be improved and that the county had received a resolution from the city to look at 101, but it was not incorporated into the capital improvement program for the next 5 years, that funds are already dedicated to other areas in the county, so he cannot say it will happen in the next 5 years. The public hearing was closed at 10:16 p.m. Carolyn Smith said lets say we suggest a condition that the right turn lane be extended and does that change the footprint. Loren Kohnen said that it might affect the green space. Randy Mayer said that the county held up entrance permits for him until we paved and the turn lane did not take us out of compliance. Bruce Workman said the safety issue is his biggest concern and the future development of the area. He said he is not opposed to the business, just the safety - he felt this proposal was a little incompatible with the site and he doesn't like the parking in the front of the store with people going in between the parked cars, etc. He thought it should be at least opened up in front of the doors. Greg Ebert said that the parking by the store would be for the convenience store and that 75% of the parking is by the pumps. C. Smith said that more parking than is needed is shown so some stripping could be created. 10 B. Workman asked about the lighting at night, this is an elevated site and it is tough to contain light on the site - if you put lighting like at Randy's here it would be very hard - this is such a visible spot. Steve Johnston said that they will provide foot candles, etc. to the council. Anne Heideman said that the lighting should be approved by staff before installation. C. Smith said that the lighting at the Holiday by Maple Plain is different that at Randy's. Will the lighting be like that? G. Ebert said that you will not see the source of the light. Kathy Cook asked about the landscaping and what would you see from the road - will the blacktop be screened. L. Kohnen said no, it is not required. He said that station set -backs are different than other commercial uses. C. Smith asked if there has been talk of retaining walls. S. Johnston said that there are 2 tier retaining walls about 6' or so each, along with plantings. Elizabeth Weir wanted to know if we had talked it through about the extra turn lane. Both Frank and Carolyn said they would like to see it. A. Heideman said she had no problem with it. She said that if the county finds it is a hazard they will alter it accordingly. E. Weir asked about the hardcover. S. Johnston said there is the ROW to give. Susie Mackay said if we do the lane, is there danger of skidding into the pond. S. Johnston pointed out the location of the pond. B. Workman asked about oil and gas spills and if it could handle it all. MOVED BY ANNE HEIDEMAN AND SECONDED BY CAROLYN SMITH TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AT 200 HIGHWAY 101 FOR A HOLIDAY CONVENIENCE STORE/GAS STATION/LIQUOR STORE/CAR WASH WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS: 11 1. Any outside dumpsters must be screened using the same materials as the main building 2. Compliance with all requirements of the Elm Creek Watershed District 3. All signs to meet code 4. No outside bells or loudspeakers except as required by state law 5. Six SAC units per Met Council and any connection fees to be paid at or before the time a building permit is issued 6. Any roof top equipment must be screened 7. All exterior lighting be designed and installed so that the globe is recessed and enclosed on all sides except the bottom and no light is cast directly on any other property. All fixtures to be reviewed and approved by staff before installation 8. Canopy lighting must be downcast type with fixture reviewed and approved by staff before installation 9. No outside storage is permitted other than what is permitted by ordinance (items for sale in front of building) 10. No automobiles offered For Sale permitted on site 11. A financial guarantee to be provided before any site work begins. This does include the frontage road, Co. Rd. 101 improvements and sewer and/or water work 12.All requirements of city engineer to be met 13. Water usage not to exceed 157,400 gallons per quarter or 629,600 gallons per year. If the water discharge from the car wash exceeds 750 gallons per day, the Applicant must modify the hours of operation or the number of washes to ensure that criteria is met and that the total annual discharge of water from the car wash does not exceed 629,600 gallons per year 14.The Applicant must maintain records regarding the pit equipment for review by the City 15. Building and site to meet all building and fire codes 16.All landscaping to be maintained 17.Additional continuous southbound right turn lane from Clydesdale to Highway 55 to be included 18. Clydesdale to be maintained by the Applicant until it is extended Paul Saqafus, Cherry Hill, said that he is very concerned about green scum on the pond and would ask that landscaping shield it. Glenn Cook said to look at the pond at the Holiday in Medina by Maple Plain. He said that you don't usually see the water, that cat tails, etc. are there. L. Kohnen said the one at Randy's also. C. Smith said that the car wash is recycled and all goes into the pit. S. Johnston said that required water quality treatment with the cat tails removes any scum - he said that there is open water in the middle. He said it is there to protect Elm Creek. P.Sagafus said he was also concerned about the liquor store and being so close to the new Wayzata High School. 12 MOTION PASSED WITH BRUCE WORKMAN ABSTAINING. HE VOICED CONCERN WITH THE ENTIRE PLAN FOR THE AREA. IT IS ALSO RECOMMENDED THAT THE CITY COUNCIL REQUEST THAT THE COUNTY DO A TRAFFIC STUDY OF THE AREA. MOVED BY FRANK MIGNONE AND SECONDED BY ELIZABETH WEIR TO ADJOURN. MOTION PASSED Meeting adjourned at 11:05 p.m. Planning and Zoning Assistant Date 13