HomeMy Public PortalAbout2023_tcwsmin0807Council Work Session August 7, 2023
Council Chamber, 25 West Market Street, Leesburg, Virginia, 7:00 p.m. Mayor Kelly Burk
presiding.
Council Members Present: Ara Bagdasarian, Todd Cimino -Johnson, Zach Cummings,
Kari Nacy, Vice Mayor Neil Steinberg, Patrick Wilt, and Mayor Kelly Burk.
Council Members Absent: None.
Staff Present: Town Manager Kaj Dentler, Town Attorney Christopher Spera, Deputy
Town Manager Keith Markel, Parks and Recreation Director Rich Williams, Economic
Development Director Russell Seymour, Director of Public Works and Capital Projects
Renee LaFollette, Assistant Town Manager Kate Trask, Transportation Engineer Niraja
Chandrapu, Lieutenant Chris Vogel, Sargeant Ed Martin and Clerk of Council Eileen
Boeing.
AGENDA ITEMS
a. Item for Discussion
a. Traffic Control at the Intersection of the Route 7 Exit Ramp and Clubhouse Drive
Ms. Chandrapu provided Council with an update to a resident's request to add
flashing beacons to the stop signs at the intersection of the Route 7 Bypass exit ramp
and Clubhouse Drive. The intersection is a Virginia Department of Transportation
(VDOT) controlled intersection. VDOT Traffic Engineer Tom Folse and Town
Traffic Engineer Niraja Chandrapu explained the reasoning behind the
recommendation not to install flashing beacons on these stop signs. Sgt. Martin
reviewed the Leesburg Police Departments targeted enforcement activities. Staff
recommendation is for continued Police enforcement to promote driver compliance
with the existing signage.
Council, staff and VDOT representatives discussed the item.
No further action requested by Council.
b. Outdoor Volleyball Court
Mr. Williams reported on the potential addition of an outdoor volleyball court
in Leesburg. In consultation with the Parks & Recreation Advisory Commission,
two locations were identified. The two locations are Robinson Park near the flag
football field and Ida Lee Park in an area near the soccer fields previously earmarked
for a pavilion for use with the soccer fields but no longer needed.
Council and staff discussed the item.
It was the consensus of Council to add this item to the Fiscal Year 2025 proposed budget.
c. Virginia Main Street Program — Quarterly Update
Mr. Seymour provided Council with an overview of the Main Street Program
which by design is now operating as an independent organization from the Town.
The Main Street Program is now called Leesburg Movement, has filed for 501(c)(3)
status and has selected members from the Committee to serve as officers. Mr. John
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Council Work Session August 7, 2023
Papp serves as the chair of the Committee and was in attendance to answer questions
from Council.
Council, staff and Mr. Papp discussed the current progress of the Committee.
No further action was requested by Council.
d. Town Code Amendments Regarding Boards and Commissions — Membership and
Attendance Requirements
Mr. Spera reviewed the proposed Town Code amendments regarding Boards
and Commissions based on previous direction received from Council.
In addition to the administrative changes presented by Mr. Spera, Council
agreed to include the following amendments:
• provide clarity regarding specific membership requirements for each
Board/Commission;
• require at least four Town residents on each Board or Commission;
• pay stipends based on attendance;
• require bodies to adopt a regular meeting schedule at the beginning of
each calendar year;
• only regularly scheduled meetings will count towards attendance
requirements;
• once a meeting calendar is adopted at the beginning of the calendar year,
meetings may be rescheduled with a majority vote of the body but the
rescheduled meeting will not count towards the attendance requirement
if a member cannot attend;
• bodies are only required to meet nine times per calendar year; and
• members removed for attendance reasons are not eligible for
reappointment for 12 months.
It was the consensus of the Council to move forward with the proposed Town Code
amendments.
b. Additions to Future Council Meetings
a. Proclamation Requests
Mayor Burk requested Council consensus for a Constitution Week
proclamation to be presented at the September 12 Council Meeting.
It was the consensus of Council to add this item to the September 12, 2023, Council
Meeting for a vote and presentation.
b. Future Council Meetings and Agenda Topics
Council Member Wilt requested a work session discussion on allowing the use of mobile
food trucks in the B1 District.
It was the consensus of Council to add this item to a future work session discussion.
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Council Work Session
August 7, 2023
Council Member Wilt requested a work session discussion on allowing the use of
composite and synthetic materials in the Historic District.
It was the consensus of Council to add this item to a future work session discussion.
Council Member Cummings requested a work session discussion on potential
improvements to the intersection of South King Street and the Route 7 Bypass. Council Member
Cummings requested representation from VDOT at the work session and Council Member Nacy
requested crash data to be included in the discussion.
It was the consensus of Council to add this item to a future work session discussion.
c. Adjournment
On a motion by Vice Mayor Steinberg, seconded by Council Member Nacy, the meeting was
adjourned at 8:27 p.m.
Clerk of Council
2023_tcwsmin0807
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August 7, 2023 — Leesburg Town Council Work Session
(Note: This is a transcript prepared by a Town contractor based on the video of the meeting. It
may not be entirely accurate. For greater accuracy, we encourage you to review the video of
the meeting that is on the Town's Web site — www.leesburgva.gov or refer to the approved
Council meeting minutes. Council meeting videos are retained for three calendar years after a
meeting per Library of Virginia Records Retention guidelines.)
Mayor Kelly Burk: Let me call tonight's Town Council Work Session. Our first item for discussion
tonight is the traffic control at the intersection of Route 7 exit ramp and Clubhouse Drive.
Niraja Chandrapu: Thank you. Good evening, Madam Mayor and Council Members. My name is
Niraja Chandrapu, and I'm a Transportation Engineer with Town of Leesburg. I'm here to present on
traffic control at the intersection of Route 7 exit ramp and Clubhouse Drive. I have here with me my
Director, Ms. Renee, and also I have here with us Mr. Thomas Folse, the Assistant District Traffic
Engineer from VDOT, and also Mr. Sunil Taori, the Assistant Transportation and Land Use Director,
to answer any questions that you may have after the presentation.
In the presentation, we will cover background, methodology, findings of the engineering analysis, and
the recommendation of the staff. One of the resident of Clubhouse Drive requested installing flashing
beacons at the stop signs at the subject intersection. Town staff requested VDOT to review as the exit
ramp from Route 7 Bypass at Clubhouse Drive are within the VDOTs right of way. Then VDOT
conducted an engineering analysis at the subject intersection.
This image shows the study intersection. As you can see, there are a roadway that is colored blue
and the roadway that is colored red. Any limited access highway and any ramps that are entering and
exiting the limited access highway are maintained by VDOT in the Town. The stop control is on the
exit ramp, where vehicles are required to stop entering into the intersection.
Currently, the intersection carries approximately 400 vehicles per hour during the commuter peak
hours, out of which 75% to 60% of the traffic is coming from the exit ramp. Today, the intersection
operates with the acceptable level of service. The use of flashing beacons is governed by the VDOT
information and instructional memorandum, TE394, which must be followed and shall be approved by
the District Traffic Engineer or designee prior to the installation.
The memorandum states that flashing beacons should be used sparingly and only when engineering
judgment indicates a need for it, and the evaluation should consider the following three things. Is
there a problem at this location? This could be done with the review of crash history at the
intersection. Are there other factors, example, sight distance contributing to the safety concerns at this
location besides sign visibility? The third one is, could the problem be addressed by the other
inexpensive measures?
To answer the first question, VDOT reviewed the crashes at this location for the last 13 years, and
only one crash that occurred in 2016 could have been the result of driver not noticing the sign. To
answer this question, there is not an existing problem at this location. Are there other factors?
Example sight distance contributing to the safety concerns? There are no obstructions or road
features that prevent drivers on the ramp from seeing the signage, which is stop ahead or stop sign
approaching the intersection or approaching traffic on the Clubhouse Drive.
The third one, could the problem be addressed by other inexpensive measures? Prior to the request
with the Town Council, VDOT had installed reflective tapes on the stop sign posts and installed a two -
directional large arrow warning sign, and refreshed the painted stop bar on the payment. This image
shows the mitigations that are implemented by VDOT at this location.
At the request of the Town Council, this intersection was later added to the selective enforcement for
violation of stop control, which started on March 2nd and ended on May 1St. This intersection was
observed for 11 and a half hours and had three citizen contacts during that time. The residents also
provided a video. The video shows that when cross traffic was present on the Clubhouse Drive, the
drivers on the ramp came to a stop. When Clubhouse Drive was clear, drivers on the ramp looked
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both ways before slowly proceeding through the intersection without stopping, which is not an unusual
behavior at a stop -control intersection.
There is one other location where the beacons were added to the stop sign. That intersection is
Evergreen Mills Road and Watson Road. This intersection is known for serious crashes, including
fatalities in 2017. This image shows the beacons that are installed on the stop sign. There are other
mitigation measures that are done like pavement marking signs. Road pavement markings was
installed at this location to improve the safety. This intersection is also slated for realignment and
signalization by the Loudoun County because of the crashes and to improve safety at this location.
Coming to the staffs recommendation, currently, the warning stop ahead stop signs are clearly
visible. Addition of flashing beacons on the stop signs is deemed unnecessary at this time based on
the current data, observation, crash data, and analysis. With that, I come to questions and answers.
Mayor Burk: Are you finished? Oh, you're done, thank you. Thank you very much. Are there any
questions of our traffic people at this point? Yes?
Council Member Ara Bagdasarian: I've got a few questions. Thank you.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Bagdasarian.
Council Member Bagdasarian: Yes, thank you. I'm just curious, are the flashing beacons expensive
or what is the cost? Because it mentioned inexpensive options. How expensive are the actual
beacons?
Niraja Chandrapu: The cost, I think it is around $25,000 or something like that, flashing beacons. I'm
not sure how much it costs in terms of maintenance. I don't have that number right in front of me
regarding the maintenance.
Council Member Bagdasarian: I think one of the interesting dynamics about that specific location,
I've been down there a number of times and observed it, but obviously, all anecdotal. I wasn't actually
collecting data, but just one of the factors there which I think is different from some of the other
locations is the speed coming off the off -ramp. Cars just tend to roll through because they are going at
a pretty decent speed coming off of 7. I understand if there are other cars present, the cars will tend to
stop, but if there aren't cars, they just tend to roll through, correct?
My concern is pedestrians. I know that's not a very pedestrians -friendly area, but there are people that
do walk across that area and it's less obvious to a driver who might be distracted to see a pedestrian
walking or starting to cross versus a car, which they do stop for. That's a concern. Just a concern, a
question, what is the downside or the concern to installing a beacon at that location?
Niraja Chandrapu: I think we will lose the importance of putting those flashing beacons because it is
not necessary. People are stopping. It's just that there are a few drivers who tend not to follow the
rules, not coming to a complete stop. The signs are clearly visible to the drivers. It's just that since
Clubhouse Drive carries less traffic, they think that it is safe enough and they are just rolling through
the intersection.
Council Member Bagdasarian: Okay, thank you.
Kaj Dentler: Madam Mayor, just to remind you and the Council that VDOT representatives are here
as well and they can address your questions more specifically since it is their area of responsibility.
Mayor Burk: Yes, thank you. I was just getting ready to announce that. Yes, go ahead, Ms. Nacy.
Council Member Kari Nacy: Thank you. I'm just curious if a beacon isn't an option, would another
less expensive option be to put the flags, like how we just changed the speed limit and some of our
stop signs and speed limit signs have the flags on them. Is that an option to just alert the drivers more
in addition to the signs? That could even just be there temporarily, perhaps.
Mayor Burk: Are you asking that of VDOT, because that is VDOT property and signs.
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Council Member Nacy: Yes, I think I would be. [laughs] Just to help curb the slow rollers that don't
actually stop through there. That intersection in general, especially when you come through that light,
is very concerning and there are bad accidents there often on the other side of the road. If there's just
anything we can do to slow people down, stop them, make them more alert in that area, I think it
would be helpful.
Thomas Folse: To answer the question though, I think that what we've found is that the issue here is
not a question of people seeing the sign. It's compliance with the sign and obeying the sign. Whether
it's flashing lights, flashing beacons, or flags, it doesn't really address the issue, I think. That's why
we're not really seeing a need for it. It's not really going to address the issue. It's doing something that
is going to bring attention to this intersection, but yet there are other intersections that may have
serious issues that don't have this. We're concerned that it may send the wrong message that this is a
hazardous intersection when it really isn't.
Council Member Nacy: Thank you. I think that covers it for VDOT. [chuckles] I guess then from a
Town perspective, you're never going to have 100% compliance. There's always going to be
somebody who does the California Roll through the stop sign. I'm curious, and maybe even Council
has any other suggestions. I don't want to go back to our citizens who are concerned about this
intersection and say, "Well, sorry, we found that it was safe and so whatever you're saying is not a
concern to us." You know what I mean?
I'd like to find some way to help the citizens that are concerned and live in that area feel better about
this intersection. I'm open to [laughs] suggestions.
Mayor Burk: We do have a development that's going in there, and that will increase traffic and will
increase commercial traffic substantially. They've proffered to pay for the sign or any other mediation
that we can do to alleviate that because they are a little concerned too, as the increase in the
commercial traffic, will that have an impact?
Thomas Folse: Right. I understand. I think the issue is the long-term maintenance also as far as that
goes. It's not really the cost from VDOT's perspective. It's just the fact that we just don't think it's
justified. It's a small cost, but if every intersection that had any vehicles running through it through a
stop sign and had a low crash rate were to have these, then the cost would add up. It would
aggregate and it would be then quite large, I think, as far as the cost goes.
Mayor Burk: You have no mitigation to offer, rumble strips or some other way to mitigate the
concerns?
Thomas Folse: Not since the concern is compliance rather than visibility of the sign. That's not what
we deal with. That's more of enforcement and I guess driver education issue rather than something
that we deal with, VDOT. We want people to see the signs and we also want them to comply with
them, but all we can do is to make them visible and it's up to others to make sure that they're
complied to.
Mayor Burk: Vice Mayor?
Vice Mayor Neil Steinberg: Thanks. Refresh my memory. This is for staff first. Is the concern of the
neighborhood more for pedestrians or for drivers here?
Niraja Chandrapu: Drivers.
Vice Mayor Steinberg: Mostly for the drivers who are simply rolling through the stop sign, even
though it's clearly marked anyway?
Niraja Chandrapu: Yes. It's visible to them, but they're not just in compliance.
Vice Mayor Steinberg: Then here we go. Then to your envy then I guess, without doing the flashing
lights, which I agree is probably not the greatest, are there traffic calming measures? There's no
sidewalk on that side, is there? We don't want to put a crosswalk there anyway. Correct? A stamped
crosswalk is probably not a great idea but are there any traffic calming measures we might employ at
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that particular area that might at least subconsciously cause drivers to slow down, if not stop
altogether? [laughs]
Thomas Folse: What we've seen is that the traffic that is going through there is already going fairly
slow. Because of the fact that there's a curve just before the stop sign. The vehicles have to go slow
just to make the curve or fairly slow let's put it that way. The speed limit on Route 7 is 55 miles an
hour. We have an advisory speed on the ramp at 25 miles an hour. By the time they hit the curve just
before the stop sign, you pretty much have to be going around 25. You can't really be exceeding it by
very much or you just won't make the curve.
Vice Mayor Steinberg: It's not that I wish to appear unsympathetic to the neighborhood's concern but
I'm not convinced that this is a working solution that's going to cause bad driver behavior in the least.
Frankly, if I had my way we'd have whole road gates at the intersection of Loudoun and King given
the level of number of times drivers just run the red lights, let alone roll through stop signs. I'm not
even sure what additional study gets us frankly to alleviating the neighbor's concerns. This just
doesn't appear to be a very workable solution. Again, the Mayor mentioned rumble strips. I don't know
if that's an option.
Niraja Chandrapu: In last fall, VDOT implemented some mitigation measures at this location for a
better visibility, which I can show you there.
Vice Mayor Steinberg: Yes, I saw that slide.
Niraja Chandrapu: Those were added last year and I don't think there have been any crashes from
that time. These are the low-cost measures that even the IAM document recommends to implement
before even going for the option of adding beacons to the stop sign. In my opinion, this is working I
guess.
Vice Mayor Steinberg: Yes. Long term I don't see this as a solution. I see we have a couple
members of LPD here and assuming they're not here to discuss the volleyball courts, I wasn't sure if
this is the topic that they were here if they had any.
Mayor Burk: That was the next thing I was going to say.
Vice Mayor Steinberg: Okay. If they had any input that they might wish to offer in terms of --
Mayor Burk: Everybody gets ahead.
Vice Mayor Steinberg: Yes. In terms of the three interactions we had with the citizens and I'm
certainly willing to leave that to the Mayor.
Mayor Burk: We'll ask them if they can come up after we get everybody's questions.
Vice Mayor Steinberg: Fine, thank you.
Mayor Burk: Thank you. Yes, sir.
Council Member Zach Cummings: I will reserve my first question for LPD because it was about
enforcement. My other question since we have VDOT representatives from VDOT here and I don't
want to squander an opportunity. The intersection of South King Street and the Leesburg Bypass is
probably, in my opinion, one of the most antiquated intersections maybe in the Commonwealth of
Virginia for a growing metropolis like Leesburg, where are we in the process as far as budgets and
years advanced of looking at rerouting and fixing?
Right now to get on and off of the Bypass, you're going left to get back on going the other way. You're
taking a left across two or three intersections, or cross two or three lanes in that intersection. I know
this is not the topic of this but again, with you all here I would love to hear what the future plans are for
this intersection.
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Mayor Burk: I'm not sure that that would be appropriate because that was not a part of the agenda
that was put forward. Maybe we could talk about that at another time. Just because it's not on the
agenda and we don't want to get in trouble for talking about something that's not on the agenda.
Council Member Cummings: Okay. It is a public hearing, a public meeting.
Mayor Burk: It is a public meeting but we didn't-- yes.
Christopher Spera: You just don't want to deviate too far from the published agenda. The open
meeting requirements require a published agenda. The Mayor, I think is correct in her caution.
Mayor Burk: Maybe you want to bring that up for a future item.
Council Member Cummings: Sure.
Mayor Burk: Okay. [laughs] Dr. Cimino -Johnson.
Council Member Todd Cimino -Johnson: Thank you. This question's for VDOT, so how much do
the flashing signs cost?
Thomas Folse: We did not do a detailed cost estimate. I looked up, I just did a Google search and
they are about $2,000 each. That's just to get them from the supplier.
Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Okay.
Thomas Folse: You would need two of them. With labor, I heard the number 25. The labor is the
expensive part. Okay [chuckles].
Council Member Cimino -Johnson: $20,000 in labor.
Thomas Folse: No, no, no.
Council Member Cimino -Johnson: To install two lights?
Niraja Chandrapu: I think solar panels and all that, including everything. What I did from the Google
search came out to be like $20,000 to $22,000.
Thomas Folse: Okay.
Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Okay. I don't know if I believe all that. That's highly steep.
[crosstalk] Even if it is, we have an issue, we have citizens who are complaining about this
intersection. How can you help us?
Thomas Folse: I'm an Engineer, okay? I don't think it's an engineering issue. I think the engineering
issue has been addressed.
Council Member Cimino -Johnson: VDOT, they're not going to do anything, even if we send you a
letter saying we want something done at this intersection.
Thomas Folse: I'm a Traffic Engineer, so I don't know. If you have a suggestion, we can look at it.
Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Okay, what is that process? What is that process? We send you
a letter saying, "Here's three things we think you should do at this intersection."
Thomas Folse: Right. When you send it to VDOT, it will get routed to the appropriate people to look
at it. I would be one of those people, and we would take a look at whatever those suggestions are.
Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Okay. Do you know how long that process would take?
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Thomas Folse: It depends on what it is. If we have to get data, then it could take some time. For
example, if we have to do a survey or get traffic counts, then it could take some time. For example,
this time of the year, we're not even getting traffic counts because a lot of people are on vacation. We
would have to wait until usually mid -September before things settle down before we get normal traffic
counts. Anything that requires us to get data, it's going to take longer. It could take a couple of
months. Just a month to get the data and then another month to formulate a response, analyze it and
formulate a response.
Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Okay, thank you.
Council Member Nacy: Yes, Mr. Council Member Bagdasarian.
Council Member Bagdasarian: Another question here. Such an interesting discussion. Okay, given
the fact that you've identified this not to be a visibility issue, it is a compliance issue. Nonetheless, it is
an issue. The question is, what are the best practices, strategies that can be employed to increase
compliance? I'm sure this is not the only intersection that has issues like this. Whether that's with
Leesburg PD or if that's VDOT, what are some strategies that we can consider?
Because I just think saying, "Too bad. We can't do anything." Because people can see the signs. I get
that. What can we do? What are some approaches that we can take to increase compliance there?
There must be something. There must be. I know there is.
Mayor Burk: Go ahead.
Thomas Folse: I wish I knew. When we put in a stop sign, we want 100% compliance 100% of the
time. Okay, but we don't. That's why we really look at the data, the crash data. If I knew how to get
100% compliance, we would do that everywhere. We just don't. We just can't do that.
Council Member Bagdasarian: Because we have one set of data currently with the lack of
compliance, to look at even a temporary measure of having beacons installed for six months and see
if there's a difference in behaviors as a result of that.
Niraja Chandrapu: Enforcement might be one of the things that could be implemented to change the
driver behavior for them to come to a stop. Sony. I'm sorry. I would say enforcement might work for
drivers to change their behavior to stop when they actually see the sign.
Mayor Burk: On that note, we will ask, is either of the police officers here today in regard to this
particular topic?
Edward Martin: Yes, ma'am. I'm here more to answer any questions you guys have.
Mayor Burk: Okay.
Edward Martin: Or try to anyway. Good evening.
Mayor Burk: One of the things that we were looking into or thinking about was enforcement. You
have some data on that?
Edward Martin: I'll just talk about the selective enforcement that she spoke about. That was
conducted by the Police Department. That was 11 and a half hours with three citizen contacts. There
were some questions about the timing of that in the breakdown. That was actually 29 separate times
that officers sat out there over the span from March 2nd to May 151. In that time, they managed to come
into three citizen contacts, meaning they pulled three people over for running the stop sign. All three
of those were between 11:00 AM and noon.
Just to tell you guys my thoughts on that, this is the selective traffic list that we had from that time
frame with the 11 and a half hours and three contacts. The other stuff that was open was like East
Market, Battlefield, 28 and a half hours, 29 contacts. West Y, five and a half hours, five contacts. It
just goes on, Crosstrail Boulevard, Branch Parkway, eight hours, seven contacts. We have multiple
places that we have to hit.
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When we're sitting there, they're not running the stop sign, but we can't sit there all the time to
mitigate that, I guess, is the best way to put it. There are excellent sight distances through there.
They're going to see the police car, they stop. There's no hiding place, there's no bushes, there's no
place that we can put harrier jets and land down. We've got what we've got out there. Every time we
go out there to run selective, we don't have anybody running the stop signs. Like I said, we had three
contacts in those entire 11 and a half hours.
Mayor Burk: All right. Anyone have any questions? Thank you. We appreciate the information.
Edward Martin: Yes, ma'am. No worries.
Mayor Burk: Do we want to mull this over or does anybody have any suggestions at this point of
what they want to do? I guess we're mulling it over. Yes?
Council Member Nacy: I was just going to say, at this point, it sounds like we've run all of our options
currently, and we just need to wait for the build out and more traffic, I guess.
Mayor Burk: What happens then? [laughs]
Council Member Nacy: Yes. It sounds like it.
Mayor Burk: As that development comes online and there is an increase in traffic, will there be an
opportunity at that point to also--
Niraja Chandrapu: We can evaluate again. We can evaluate depending on the conditions when all
the developments are in place and when there is increase in traffic. Yes, but it is not necessary with
the current data, with the current observations. Maybe with the increased data, with the development,
we can reevaluate and see if it is needed at that time.
Mayor Burk: Right. Yes, Mr. Bagdasarian.
Council Member Bagdasarian: Did you indicate that you were considering putting temporary
beacons to see if there is a change in behavior?
Niraja Chandrapu: This is on VDOT's property.
Council Member Bagdasarian: Right.
Mayor Burk: That would be the very expensive thing that they were talking about because it can't be
temporary because they have to put electrical wires there and the solar and all that kind of stuff.
Renee LaFollette: From staffs perspective, based on the data that we have, the crash data that we
have, the speeds we have, the volume, the sight distance, and the stopping sight distance that's
available at this intersection, to add flashing beacons at this time to this intersection lessens their
effectiveness at intersections where they are critically needed. You don't have geometry concerns.
You don't have sight distance concerns.
We've had three crashes that none of them were contributed by somebody running the stop sign. For
us to throw all of that information out the window and put a control measure here that is needed in
other locations where you have severe injury and property damage accidents, it is not a good use of
this type of traffic control device. From an engineering perspective, it would not be a good use of that
device.
Mayor Burk: Is it something you could do temporarily?
Renee LaFollette: Again, you lose the effectiveness of that type of that.
Mayor Burk: No, I understand that.
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Renee LaFollette: I would not do it as a temporary measure because people get used to seeing
something, it goes into the background, you take it away, you're back to the condition that you have
right now. You're drawing people's attention for a very short period of time for a fairly significant
expense.
Mayor Burk: Okay. You done?
Council Member Bagdasarian: I still would like to look at-- There's really nothing we can do when it
comes to stop signs. There are no strategies or tactics that can be applied to increase compliance.
That's essentially just the way it is. Is that my understanding?
Niraja Chandrapu: The drivers are required to comply.
Renee LaFollette: Right now at this intersection, VDOT has added everything that in my 30 years in
engineering and working for a DOT and the locality have been added here. You have the stop ahead
sign, you've got dual stop signs and really those aren't necessary for the volume of traffic, but you
have dual stop signs, refresh the stop bar, you put the reflectorized panel down the signpost, which
we have done in some locations in Town as well.
You mentioned rumble strips. If you want to bring the neighbors out with complaints, put rumble strips
on this ramp, because those will be heard by every single one of those townhouses on Davis Avenue,
and across the area. I would definitely not recommend rumble strips.
Vice Mayor Steinberg: Just out of curiosity. What about a raised table? Is that --
Renee LaFollette: You're going to have the same issue. I've got one neighborhood in Town where
we put a raised table on a 25 mile an hour speed street and every time I walk my dog, a neighbor will
come out and say, take that thing out because we hear people slow down, they go over it and they
immediately hit the accelerator. They hear the trailers bouncing over it. You're going to have a similar
reaction.
Vice Mayor Steinberg: I saw in the staff report mention of the potential of a two-way stop
intersection, but that really penalizes the people on Clubhouse Drive and it doesn't change the
behavior at all of the people coming off of the ramp.
Niraja Chandrapu: If you shift the stop sign, then they're allowed to roll through the intersection. They
have the free option, but that would increase the delay for the Clubhouse Drive.
Vice Mayor Steinberg: Basically what we are looking at a lot of empirical data that tells us that most
of these solutions would be stop gap at best and would do little to change the behavior of drivers who
are going to insist on doing whatever there is they're doing, including speeding and running stop signs
and all of that. That versus anecdotal approaches I would have to accept the empirical data actually in
this case. I mean, I agree, drivers do what they're going to do and, I don't see the flashing light as a
workable solution in this case. Thanks.
Niraja Chandrapu: Thank you.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Bagdasarian, were you finished with your questions?
Council Member Bagdasarian: Yes.
Mayor Burk: Anyone else at this point? Anyone? I think we're going to have to mull this over a little
bit. Thank you, thank you gentlemen, very much for coming. Thank you. Appreciate you coming and
for being patient. All right. Interesting dilemma. Next one, outdoor volleyball court.
Rich Williams: Good evening, Mayor, Members of Council, Rich Williams with Department of Parks
and Recreation. Here tonight to talk about the potential for an outdoor volleyball court. Council did
receive some requests from some residents for the desire to have a sand volleyball court somewhere
here in Town, and Council directed staff to look into the possibility of development of such a court and
Page 8IAugust 7, 2023
to work with the Parks and Recreation Advisory Commission in order to identify potential locations for
a court.
As we worked through our process of identifying a location for the court, we were looking for areas
within our parks that were relatively level for an area of approximately 52 to 80 feet. That's what's
needed for a standard court. There should be minimal trees in the area and reason for that is to
minimize the amount of debris, twigs leaves, and everything that fall into the court to minimize the
maintenance challenges.
There should be adjacent parking next to the amenity in order to service and there also should be an
accessible route from that parking area that leads to the court for spectators. One thing was not
identified on there that is also important to note is there should be minimal impact to existing
amenities or programs that we have in the park that we're not taking something away in order to gain
something.
Those were the considerations that the Council and staff took into account as we were looking for
locations and two locations were identified. One is at Robinson Park, which is immediately next to the
Flag Football fields. You can see it there. It's a good location. There's parking. It could serve with an
accessible route to the volleyball court site. The downside with this location though is that is an area
that's typically used by parents to sit and watch the Flag football games going on, so that would have
some level of impact to an existing program.
The second site that was identified and is probably the site of choice is adjacent to the soccer fields at
Ida Lee. This is a plateaued area that was originally envisioned to house a pavilion that would service
the soccer field. However, there has not been a need for that, and the soccer fields have been there
for knocking on 20 years now. That's a site that definitely could be repurposed into an area for a sand
volleyball court. That is actually the preferred location that we do have.
The development costs for such a facility. There was no formal estimation process that was done with
this short of going online, researching what other communities had paid for their volleyball courts.
Talking with our parks management team as to what labor is involved in doing the various amount of
work that's needed to construct the court. Within that $75,000 to $100,000 price estimate for a court
development, there's a lot of site work that goes into place.
Unfortunately, it's not as simple as just removing the topsoil and laying some sand down and calling it
a day. That would work great for a month, a couple of months and then you're going to have a
maintenance issue you're dealing with. There actually needs to be perforated piping underneath a
gravel base for the court, and then 12 to 18 inches of specific sand that's used for volleyball courts.
If you were to put a traditional sand trap sand from a golf course that could turn to dust very easily
and you'd be having another maintenance issue you're dealing with. There's also court amenities that
are involved. That would be your post, your net, your edging that goes around the court as well as any
seating that is needed around the court. Then, of course, there's the accessible route that would need
to be developed leading from the parking area to the volleyball courts themselves.
At the July 19th Parks and Recreation Commission meeting the Commission did identify those two
locations of Robinson Park and Ida Lee Park as suitable locations for a sand volleyball court. With
their preference being the location at Ida Lee. Staff does concur with their findings that Ida Lee would
be the preferred site and would recommend moving forward with the development of a court should
funding be made available for such a thing. That being said, that is the extent of my presentation, but I
open it up to any questions everybody may have.
Mayor Burk: Oh, Thank you very much, Mr. Williams. Council Member Cimino -Johnson, this was
your request. Is there any questions you have in regard to this?
Council Member Cimino -Johnson: I do. Thank you, Rich, for the presentation. I guess the question
is $75,000 to $100,000, do we get a contractor for that or is that something in-house?
Rich Williams: We would more than likely have a contractor do that work or it depends on what the
bandwidth is of the staff to be able to do it, whether it fits in our work plan.
Page 9IAugust 7, 2023
Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Oh, okay. That's why you have the $75,000 to $100,000?
Rich Williams: Yes, there's a deviation.
Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Okay. Excellent. No more questions. Thank you.
Rich Williams: All right.
Mayor Burk: Anyone else?
Council Member Bagdasarian: Of course, yes of course.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Bagdasarian.
Council Member Bagdasarian: Thank you, Mr. Williams. A part of the analysis has been looking at
like the model behind it, will it be reservation fees like we do with the tennis courts and the tennis
bubble where there's a fee associated with scheduling.
Rich Williams: I would not envision this being a fee -based amenity. I would envision it being open to
the playground, almost like the skate park or a playground is. If it gets to a situation, if we were to
develop this that it gets really busy and it becomes a scheduling situation, then we would look at
implementing some level of scheduling system, obviously giving priority to Leesburg residents and
then moving forward from there.
Council Member Bagdasarian: Yes. I can certainly see that happening over time having leagues
form and crowded. Thank you.
Mayor Burk: Ms. Nacy.
Council Member Nacy: Thank you. Just curious the thought process and this may be a question for
you, it may be a question for Council in general. Would this be something we would be looking to do
prior to the next budget year or if this is something that everyone agrees on, it could be built into
FY25?
Rich Williams: From my side, that would come totally as a funding question. I can present it as part
of my budget with the FY25 submission or if Council decided to identify funds elsewhere to pay for it
in this year, then we could look at that as well.
Council Member Nacy: Okay. Thank you.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Dentler, do you have anything to add to that? [chuckles]
Kaj Dentler: It would be my recommendation to build it into the FY25 budget should you wish to do it.
Mayor Burk: All right. Any other additional questions? All right. Okay. Well, thank you very much.
Rich Williams: Okay. I'll await further direction.
Mayor Burk: Okay. Does anybody want to make any directions at this point? Yes?
Council Member Cimino -Johnson: I think building it into the budget for 25 would be all right.
Mayor Burk: Are there four people that would agree with that?
Vice Mayor Steinberg: I assume we need a more complete analysis of everything.
Council Member Bagdasarian: An actual number.
Vice Mayor Steinberg: Which would come to --
Page 10IAugust 7, 2023
Rich Williams: Absolutely, yes.
Vice Mayor Steinberg: Yes, okay.
Mayor Burk: All right, great. Thank you very much. The next one is an update on the Leesburg Main
Street program.
Russel Seymour: Yes, good evening, Madam Mayor and Members of Council. Wanted to take an
opportunity to provide you with an update, a quarterly update on our Main Street initiative. The official
Main Street program for the Town of Leesburg. Wanted to also take an opportunity. Mr. John Papp,
who is Chair of the Main Street Committee, was able to join us this evening. I wanted to draw
attention to him and thank him for being here. One of the things that I'd like to mention before we get
started is you may recall back in '23 or the beginning of 2023, we had received a grant from the
Department of Housing and Community Development.
In addition to that, we did receive an additional $5,500 from that grant. That additional money allowed
us to maintain the services of our consultant for a longer period of time. There was no match that was
required to that money, and that additional time by the consultant allowed us to go for that transition
period of actually developing the plans to actually initiating the setup for the 501(c)(3). One of the
things that the Committee has just completed was the establishment of the organizational name, the
mission statement, and you are now seeing the new logo for Downtown Main Street program.
This was a group, the decision was made by our Committee and you also see, as I said, the mission
statement that is a part of that. It is known now as the Leesburg Movement and the 501(c)(3) that will
be established will share these as well. The officers, we currently have 12 committee members. We
have four officers, I mentioned Mr. Papp, also Monica Pindell, Deb Matthews, and Jason Miller
[chuckles] are our four committee members or our four officers of the Committee.
Something that's important to note is as this transitions to the 501(c)(3), these positions will roll over
as board members or as board positions for the 501(c)(3) once that's completed. Oops, went too far.
Committee Chairs, there are four Committees that have been established by the overall group. These
four Committees consist of the Organizational Commission or Committee, Economic Vitality,
Promotions, and Design. You now have four members of the entire Committee that now have these
four subcommittees that have been created. I'd also like to mention that there are currently 12
members that serve on the Committee.
This has ramped up fairly quickly from where we had been when we were dealing with four or five
originally. We now have 12 and we are also looking at, their focus is volunteers now. As the
Committee can obviously grow at any time, the Committee is very focused on volunteers, much to the
example of the Taste, which I'll mention here in a minute, the Taste program that's coming up in the
event, they'll actually have a table for that and they are looking for volunteers to work those.
Just briefly touching on the Instagram account, pretty much all of their advertising to this point has
been done on social media. Those numbers that you see here this evening have gone up significantly
from when it started. A lot of the shares, a lot of followers that are actually grouping to this now, which
is boding very well for the program. The organizational information, I wanted to mention that, as I
mentioned earlier, we did receive the additional $5,500. They are now filed for that 501(c)(3).
If you look at the column on the left, this is what has been completed thus far. The articles of
incorporation have been filed, the SEC legal formation of the Non -Stock Corporation has been
completed. They do have the EIN number for the IRS and there has been an attorney that has been
hired to represent the nonprofit organization. The next steps, the PO Box, all of these are
requirements of establishing the 501(c)(3), to file the tax-exempt application and open a bank
account. All these, I guess I should say, these four items will be completed in fairly short order as well.
Mentioned the first project, the Taste, that is coming up on August 12th, the Committee will actually
have-- Main Street will actually have a table. They will be working this. Mentioned here the purpose is
to talk to the residents, but it's really not only to establish the downtown and talk to them about that,
but also talk to them about the creation of the Main Street Initiative and build momentum for that as
well.
Page 111August 7, 2023
If I had nothing else to tell you this evening, I could not overstate in the value of this. This is a group of
businesses that have gotten together in downtown that have actually put together what we're calling
the ADD program, or I'll call it the ADD program, but it's the All Day Downtown initiative. The idea is
that you come to Taste, they'll have a drawing, you get a gift card that's worth almost $600, so $550
this gift card will be. These are all groups of downtown businesses that have put money into this.
I say that this is certainly something to look at. This is something that various staff members have
tried to get focused with the downtown businesses for a number of years. I was very pleased that they
were able to put this together. They're already looking at other events that they'll be able to do the
exact same thing too. The businesses are working together.
Mentioned the 2023 grant, we have now also applied for an additional FY 24, Community Vitality
Grant with the Department of Housing and Community Development. That grant will be for a total of
$15,000. That includes a $7,500 match. The focus of that will be toward the way -finding signs and
then also looking at branding, additional branding opportunities for the Main Street Initiative.
We should hear about the success of that grant, hopefully, by the end of-- they call it the end of
summer, so the first part of September. You may recall, however, we did not hear about the '23 grant
until, I believe, it was in February. Again, all those funds have to be expended by the end of the FY 24
fiscal year. I'm hoping we're going to hear about that one a lot quicker.
With that, Madam Mayor, I'll be glad to answer any questions that you or the Council have this
evening.
Mayor Burk: Well, thank you. This is very exciting. It's wonderful to see the downtown businesses
coming together. I have two questions. I didn't understand the All Day gift card. Does that mean that
one person wins all those cards?
Russell Seymour: That is one. Well, John, do you want to add?
John Papp: No. [unintelligible] [crosstalk]
Russell Seymour: Okay.
Mayor Burk: Would you mind explaining why that would be a good thing rather than having them
given out-- a lot of people being able to get them. Why is this better to do it this way?
Russell Seymour: This was something that the Committee wanted to put together to have one gift
card that they would do on a raffle. It is one gift card. It would be for basically enticing people to come
down. Now, there are other giveaways that they will be having as well. This one is served as the main
or the priority giveaway.
There are additional ones though by the local businesses, I will say. There are additional items that
will be given away for downtown Leesburg.
Mayor Burk: Okay. It just seems odd to me that you could reach so many more people if you had
done them individually than in one big block. Okay. You guys are doing it. Okay.
The next question I have is one that, some people will not be surprised at, when they know the Arts
District. By doing your design, you're doing the exact same color that the Arts and District did. This is
personal. I don't like this color.
[laughter]
I don't like this color at all. [laughs] I'm concerned that, it'll be a little confusing for people to think that
this is something to do with the Arts District.
Russell Seymour: No, I completely understand. One of the things I'll mention at this point as well is
staff is cycling out now that this Committee has been created. These decisions that are being made,
Page 12IAugust 7, 2023
they are voted on by the Committee. We have advised them and will continue to do so, and I certainly
will bring back your comments as well. Those were shared originally with the Committee.
Mayor Burk: Did the committee have a particular reason for doing this yellow color?
[laughter]
John Papp: This is our primary logo. We also have an alternate.
Mayor Burk: Yes. Could you come up to the microphone?
John Papp: Yes. This is our primary logo, but we also have an alternate version as well with slightly
grayer tones, as well. So that yellow backing is not always going to be in use. That's just the primary
logo that we decide on, but there's an alternate version as well.
Mayor Burk: All right, thank you.
John Papp: Yes, of course.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Bagdasarian?
Council Member Bagdasarian: Yes. I'm thrilled that this actually has moved forward as far as getting
the organization established, filing the Virginia Nonstock Corporation status and actually it's no longer
just a conversation, right? It's not a concept anymore. It's actually, there's a stake in the ground. This
is actually real and moving forward, so congratulations on that. I'm very thrilled about that. Will this
Committee become the founding Board of Directors? Is that how you structured the -
Russell Seymour: Yes.
Council Member Bagdasarian: These are the officers, and then you mentioned other Committee
members. Is this the Board of Directors currently?
John Papp: It is. Yes, exactly.
Mayor Burk: Again, you need to come out when you speak.
Russell Seymour: I'll do it. There are the 12 Committee members, that is your group, that is your
Board that will move forward with the 501(c)(3) being established. The four officers will then gravitate
over to become the four Directors or Board Members for the 501(c)(3).
Council Member Bagdasarian: This is for you or for John? Have you determined the model? Is it
going to be a membership -based organization? How are you going to bring in additional businesses in
the downtown community?
Russell Seymour: John, can you jump over if I misspeak at all. That is something that they are
working on. They're looking for additional members. There's been no talk about adding or a cost that
would come to that at this point, but it is something that as they build that membership, there will be,
hopefully, at some point, a determined amount of funding that would be addressed to becoming a
member of the Main Street group.
John Papp: Okay, just to add that we are in the process this week of fleshing out our policies and
procedures and we are going to have an application process. We haven't determined if there's going
to be a monetary -based application or what it may be, but will there be an application to join the Board
of some sort.
Council Member Bagdasarian: Okay. Will there be, and this may be premature but are you planning
to allow membership from businesses as well as residents and other supporters that want to
contribute?
Page 13IAugust 7, 2023
John Papp: Absolutely. I'm just a resident. I'm just a regular guy. I don't own a business or anything --
Council Member Bagdasarian: You can't be on this then.
John Papp: Yes, our goal is to have a very diverse group of people, both on the board as a formal
position and as volunteers in general. We want to reach everyone in Leesburg, not just business
owners but downtown residents in general.
Council Member Bagdasarian: Okay. Once again congratulations on actually getting this far and
actually-- because, yes, now it's real. Now it's a matter of making it happen so thank you.
John Papp: Thanks.
Mayor Burk: All right. Dr. Cimino -Johnson.
Council Member Cimino -Johnson: I don't have a question, just a comment. Thank you both for
everything you're doing and all the hard work in moving this forward.
Mayor Burk: Vice Mayor Steinberg.
Vice Mayor Steinberg: Thank you. First, I'll echo Council Member Bagdasarian's comments and
Council Member Cimino -Johnson's about the program overall, it's proceeding exactly as we were
hoping. Then I'm going to echo the Mayor's comments. I got to tell you, I saw this logo and it is not
working for me. I know what that window is and I assume that's what we're seeing reflected here, but
lots of people don't.
Mayor Burk: Oh, that was a window?
Vice Mayor Steinberg: I'm assuming that's what it is, this looks just like this window up here. I don't
know if that's where the graphic came from nor do I wish to cast aspersions at anybody's graphic
design talents, but the color and quite honestly, Leesburg Movement, I read that and I thought of one
thing [laughs], it wasn't-- I have to be honest, it wasn't Main Street Program. I don't know -
John Papp: Sorry about design. We've heard anecdotally that the Main Street term is lightning rod for
some people, so you want to get away from that —Main Street.
Vice Mayor Steinberg: I appreciate that. I completely appreciate that and it certainly needs to be
something that identifies us strongly or anybody sees this with the Main Street Program but primarily
Leesburg, and I'm not sure Leesburg Movement honestly gets us there. I'm not saying it has to say
Main Street Program, but this wouldn't be my first choice, honestly, for a variety of reasons.
I simply don't think it evokes what we're looking for for the Main Street program as we get this thing off
the ground. I have to assume we're not too far down the road in terms of creation of non-profit
organizations in the El Ns and all that, that we couldn't change it if we so chose. Correct?
John Papp: We actually have filed as Leesburg Movement.
Vice Mayor Steinberg: Okay, well -
John Papp: Legally, we are the Leesburg Movement right now.
Vice Mayor Steinberg: I appreciate that but if we can go from Twitter to whatever it's become
[chuckles] we could-- I just think the branding, from the get -go, has to be very strong, and for me,
honestly, this just isn't it. I don't know how the rest of the Council feels, but it might be something-- I
would revisit it honestly, but again, I appreciate all the work and I'm really happy to see where the
program is at this stage. Thanks.
Russell Seymour: Mr. Steinberg, I completely understand. One of the things though that I will come
back with, and so that we're all on the same page, is this is not a Town -run organization. We have set
Page 14IAugust 7, 2023
it up to be, they would go vote, they would come up, they actually had where they got in examples or
they had an overall thing. The Committee looked at those, they decided against them, and went down
their own path.
I certainly understand where you're coming from, but as John mentioned, they have set this up to be a
private organization that will run as such. Now I will also mention though, there may be an opportunity
for us from a marketing standpoint to look at how this is actually marketed. I think, at that point, we
may be able to do some of the things that you're talking about.
Mayor Burk: I just want to say thank you, everybody. All of your Board Members are- I guess they're
not called Board Members yet, but all of the people that have put this together, it's very exciting.
We've been long time looking forward to this and so thank you for shepherding this through, and we
appreciate it even if I don't like the color.
[laughter]
Thank you.
Russell Seymour: Thank you.
Council Member Bagdasarian: The best part of that is that it's their organization.
Mayor Burk: That's right.
Council Member Bagdasarian: That is the best part of it.
Mayor Burk: Have to listen to.
Council Member Bagdasarian: [laughs] Yes, exactly.
Mayor Burk: All right. Thank you all. All right, the next one is the discussion of proposed
amendments to the board and commission meetings and attendance rules and membership and
compensation standards.
Christopher Spera: Changing locations. Madam Mayor, Members of Council, you made two
requests of staff. One had to do with a discussion on membership, and I apologize for the omission —
both membership and compensation requirements for each board and commission member. Then
back in July, you asked staff to look at more flexibility in scheduling and cancellation of meetings.
We're going to wrap both of these items together into one presentation tonight.
First, a quick summary, here are your 13 standing boards and commissions. Of those 13, six of them
have what I'll refer to as the off -the -shelf membership rules. Essentially 7 members, one appointed by
each member of the Town Council, including the Mayor at the time of their election. Each member
must either be a Town resident or an owner of a business located within the Town. That is the
standard set of membership eligibility requirements that applies to the six boards listed here;
Diversity, Environmental Advisory, Parks and Rec., Public Art, Technology Communication, and the
Tree Commission.
Mayor Burk: Can I ask for clarification?
Christopher Spera: Yes.
Mayor Burk: Does this mean that, with these standard membership rules, that there could be seven
people on these commissions that are not residents of the Town? They have a business in Town, but
they're not a resident of the Town.
Christopher Spera: Under 2-193(a), my recollection is that four must be residents.
Mayor Burk: 2-194(a)?
Page 15IAugust 7, 2023
Christopher Spera: 2-193(a) if I remember.
Mayor Burk: Okay. That doesn't say it anywhere in here.
Christopher Spera: Then if it doesn't say it then it's either, there's not a minimum. If you want to add
that, we'd have to add that.
Mayor Burk: All right. Thank you for that clarification.
Christopher Spera: All right. If it doesn't say, then that's my confusion because I know you raised
that and I couldn't remember if it was in here or if it was something you had raised, but if it's not in
there, then that's one of the things that we talked about at-- We're not making a specific set of
recommendations here, we were just giving you a summary, and then if there's a set of
recommendations that you want us to implement in terms of code changes.
That would be one potential code change arising out of this discussion. 2-193(a), if you wanted to
make it a minimum threshold for residents, that'd be the place to add it. These seven boards or
commissions have a different set of rules than the standard off -the -shelf ones. Then you go through
each one. The BAR has a subject matter specific, and professional requirements, you have to have
one architect and then each member has to have knowledge of historic preservation and other related
topics. Economic Development Commission. Here's one where four members must be Town
residents Madam Mayor.
Mayor Burk: I see.
Christopher Spera: That's specifically set forth in that one. Then the other members may be either
owners of property in the Town, owners of businesses in the Town, or anyone who has a place in the
Town as their place of employment. Here's one example where we did set a threshold for how many
Town residents must be on the commission. The Airport Commission has some non -voting members
associated with the county and the Economic Development Commission. The other seven members
may be Town residents, owners of property, owners of businesses in Town or anyone who works in
the Town.
The other four; Balch Library, four members have to be Town residents. All members must have a
stated interest in the library. Here's another example where we set that floor of resident members.
Eileen Boeing: Mr. Spera.
Christopher Spera: Yes.
Eileen Boeing: I just want to interrupt you. 2-193(d) does say that, in all cases, except as specified,
at least four members of any board or commission shall be residents of the Town.
Christopher Spera: That's what I thought.
Eileen Boeing: It's D as in dog.
Christopher Spera: The Mayor corrected me because I cited the wrong one. All right, I remembered
it right and I gave you the wrong citation.
Mayor Burk: Could you read that again?
Christopher Spera: It's 190 --
Eileen Boeing: It's 2-193(d) as in dog.
Christopher Spera: D is where that is [unintelligible].
Page 16IAugust 7, 2023
Eileen Boeing: It says, in all cases, except as specified in the State Code, at least four members of
any board or commission shall be residents of the Town.
Mayor Burk: That means-- Again, I don't mean to-- If you want to finish, and then I'll ask some
questions.
Christopher Spera: I think I anticipate your question. If we've been doing appointments inconsistent
with subsection D, unless the specific enabling legislation for each of these boards or commissions
gives you a different path forward, then we have to comply with D of 197. I think, as I interpret what
Eileen has read to us, the specific enabling legislation would trump that.
Mayor Burk: Sure, for, like, Planning Commission.
Christopher Spera: Correct.
Mayor Burk: The way it stands right now, all commissions should have at least four members that
are residents.
Christopher Spera: Unless their enabling legislation says something different. The same we will go
through the other last two. The Residential Traffic Commission has some different requirements that
all components of the quadrants of the Town are represented geographically. Here all commission
members must be Town residents. That's for the Residential Traffic Commission.
Then the Board of Zoning Appeals, which is a creature of State statute, requires that all the members
be Town residents. The BZA I put it in here because it's one of your boards of commissions, but it
really is a creature of State law. There's not a lot that we can do to the BZA. You had also asked us to
lay out the compensation. Again, we have a standard compensation section in 2-197(b).
Basically, a $1,000 a month with a slight increase for the chair, payable monthly. I think it's in the
legislative history, the Nacy provision. It didn't make its way into the Code section. 10 of the 13
commissions have this compensation structure. The other three, I'm sure do in large part to the
volume of work that they do. The BAR and the Planning Commission, higher compensation rate. The
Board of Zoning appeals is, again, a function of State statute.
One of the things that we will address later, some of our proposed code changes, is how to handle the
compensation. Do you compensate a member who misses a meeting? Do you compensate them
once per year, or do you compensate them monthly or on some other interval or some other
schedule? Again, that's something for you to discuss and provide us with direction. That's the outline
of where your 13 boards and commissions sit in terms of membership requirements and
compensation.
I'm sorry, I'm pushing the wrong arrow. Then you also asked us to look at some recommendations to
you regarding changes to allow a little bit more flexibility and a little bit more-- I don't know if leniency
is the right word, but what do you do if you have a light agenda? If the commission wants to combine
two meetings for efficiency? Maybe you only meet 11 times instead of 12. The way the Town Code is
currently written, it says they must meet monthly. Is that something that we want our citizen board
staff to do if they don't have anything to meet for, or if they don't have a quorum due to vacation, or
whatever it might be?
We talked about a couple of things to help facilitate that. If we're going to start counting absences,
which absences do you count? For example, if a meeting, if a member was able and available to
make a scheduled meeting, then that meeting got rescheduled, is it fair to count that as an absence
against their attendance requirement? These are some things that we talked about internally as staff
with the Town Manager's office, with the Clerk who is really carrying the laboring or on monitoring all
of this for you, and to give you your monthly reports.
Through that group, we've come up with the following recommendations. We want to change Section
2-195 of the Town Code-- [coughs] excuse me, to require that when the board has its initial meeting, it
sets a schedule so that there's a schedule that's written that the members can commit to, and then it
would require a vote of the majority of change that schedule as opposed to just being at the pleasure
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of whoever the chair might be. We hope these changes all work together, but this is the first one that I
wanted to suggest to you.
The second, I alluded to this already, where we talk about, as you know, a certain number of
absences can trigger a disqualification of the commission member. What we're suggesting here is
that, if the member is absent for three consecutive regularly scheduled meetings, so part of that
schedule, it's adopted at the beginning of the commission year, then that would-- that's the threshold
for disqualification. If a meeting gets rescheduled, and the person can't make it, that wouldn't count.
Again, we feel like there's going to be a limited number of rescheduled meetings, but we also feel like
it's, if I write out my schedule at the beginning of the year, and I write down, this is my meeting date,
and I rely on that and I schedule something else for another night, and then due to circumstances
beyond my control, that meeting gets rescheduled, and I've committed to the meeting at the date it
was set, is it fair for that to count against my attendance requirements?
The other thing that we are proposing in this section is that members removed for absenteeism would
not be eligible for reappointment for another year, and staff is proposing that. We've seen a couple of
instances where somebody was removed for absenteeism and then just reappointed.
Here, the Mayor and I spoke, and I'm running along I'm sorry. The Mayor and I spoke about this
briefly when this item was given to us. Rather than having a required monthly meeting, have a
minimum number of meetings that gives the board some flexibility to cancel a meeting if there's a light
agenda, or whether or whatever it might be without being out of compliance with the Town Code.
Then again, this section on the attendance. This is just a clarification, no big deal. We had State
Freedom of Information Act. I just made it clear what we were talking about. Then with respect to
compensation, if someone were to be removed or added, they only served a portion of the year, we
make it clear that their compensation's prorated. We also know that there are some board or
commission members who decline compensation and also some board commission members who
don't turn in their paperwork.
If they decline compensation, that's fine. If they don't turn in their paperwork, they don't get paid until
they turn it in, and their pay is prorated until they turn it in. I apologize, I ran a minute and 14 seconds
long. I should do better. Those were recommendations, and my evaluation is tomorrow. Bad time for
me to run along. We believe that these changes, they will be an administrative help to the staff.
It'II give us some direction about how to pay, when to pay, how to disqualify, if we get to that, for non-
attendance, and add a little more flexibility to what are essentially citizen boards, so that they're not
technically out of compliance with the Code if they can't have a meeting or they don't have something
for their agenda. I simply propose nine as the adequate number of meetings. I know there's a lot there
but that's our recommendation. If you have anything arising out of the other parts, let us know.
Mayor Burk: Are there any questions on this? None. I have some. Well, first, the compensation.
Talking to a couple of my appointees. They get paid monthly, at this point. I asked, obviously, if
they're not in attendance, should we be paying them? They agreed that if they are not in attendance,
they really shouldn't be paid. I would like to propose that we continue to do it monthly, but if someone
is not in attendance of a meeting, then they shouldn't be paid for attending that meeting. It's where I'm
coming from.
Christopher Spera: I guess that would be a change to this section here.
Mayor Burk: Right, because you have it. Which section is that?
Christopher Spera: 197.
Mayor Burk: Compensation shall be prorated based on the months served in the event a member or
a board of commission is added or removed.
Christopher Spera: That's only for partial terms. I'd have to add some additional language here to
address what you are proposing if that's the will of the Council.
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Mayor Burk: If there are four other people that see it as appropriate, that if you sign up to be on a
commission and you don't show up for that commission meeting that's scheduled, they have the
meeting, but you don't show up, then you really shouldn't be paid for that meeting. I don't know how
others feel about that. If they're okay with that. Eileen said it wasn't a problem to do it that way. I don't
know if there are four people that would be interested in.
Vice Mayor Steinberg: I have a comment first.
Mayor Burk: Yes, sir. I'll go with you and then you.
Vice Mayor Steinberg: I think I asked this question a little bit earlier and I don't know who can
answer in terms of simply a paperwork thing. Would it be easier and require less staff time if we paid
them on an annual basis based on attendance as opposed to trying to track attendance and then
figure out what compensation should be on a monthly basis?
Eileen Boeing: Sir, from the Clerk's office, who processes-- well, the payroll department processes it,
but we approve it based on attendance. Doing it monthly would be better suited only because we
have a lot of people that off -board and onboard throughout the course of the year, and trying to keep
track of where those people are at the end of the year, some resign because they're leaving the area
and some resign and then we just have to track them down. I think if we were to keep up with it
monthly would be better, from an administrative perspective.
Vice Mayor Steinberg: All right. Thanks.
Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Answered my question.
Mayor Burk: Great minds think the same. There are four people that are willing to look at that.
Christopher Spera: I'll make that additional change to 197.
Mayor Burk: Then the only other question I had was about the number of people that are residents. It
concerns me when we can have a board of commission that doesn't have any residents on it. If I read
this right, the Board of Architectural Review and the Airport Commission do not necessarily have to
have residents on it.
Christopher Spera: I believe that's correct.
Mayor Burk: Because the board just includes knowledge of historic preservation and other related
topics.
Christopher Spera: The enabling legislation trumps the prior sections.
Mayor Burk: Yes, I don't what you mean by enabling legislation. Then the Airport Commission may
be Town residents, owners of properties, owners of businesses, or anyone who works in Town,
Christopher Spera: Any of those four categories would satisfy, and there's no resident threshold for
those. In the other ones, the two we found before, those do have them. If you want to make that a
requirement across the board, we can certainly do that.
Mayor Burk: I think the Airport Commission, if we looked at it, I think they have four members that
are Leesburg residents, Forsythe. Yes, I'm sure they have four members that are residents.
Eileen Boeing: I'm sorry, go ahead.
Mayor Burk: Go ahead.
Eileen Boeing: I was just going to say, and if I could just interject, and perhaps I've been interpreting
the code incorrectly, but we default to the basic that is in the basic membership requirements. In all
cases, unless it specifically says that all seven members, which I don't believe there are any
Page 19IAugust 7, 2023
commissions that say that they could be comprised of something other than having at least four Town
residents on the board or commission. That's been the default. That's in the membership criteria, that
is at the beginning of the boards and commission section. I think it's 2-195, Chris?
Christopher Spera: I'm not sure that's what D says though, but be that as it may, the better drafting
practice would be to make that more clear. If you want that to be clear, that there is a minimum of four
members of any board or commission that have to be Town residents, then I believe we should make
an additional amendment.
Mayor Burk: I don't think this will impact negatively. I don't think it'll make anybody have to go off.
Christopher Spera: If that's the way that it's being applied, you're correct.
Eileen Boeing: That's the way it's been administered, and I think the concept has been that we
always wanted to make sure that the Leesburg residents have majority on all the boards and
commissions. That's been the practice.
Christopher Spera: I think would have no practical effect on current membership, but it would have a
clarifying effect for me because, as I'm looking at this and trying to-- as I'm struggling to answer your
question, it's not as clear to me as it has been applied in the past.
Mayor Burk: Are there four people that would be willing to accept to change the residency
requirement just to make it clarified? Yes, Mr. Vice Mayor.
Vice Mayor Steinberg: Well, the one exception I have is the BAR because it's one of the toughest
commissions to find qualified people for, and my commission member, for example, is an architect,
and he does own a business and a property in Town, and he's eminently qualified, and so I worry for
that specific commission to say we need four Town members when his interests are definitely Town
center and he's willing to serve might.
Mayor Burk: Well, he would be one of the three that --
Vice Mayor Steinberg: I know, I just know that they're hard to come by, that's all.
Eileen Boeing: That is the one provision in the membership requirements for the BAR is to allow for
that one non-resident member to serve in that capacity.
Vice Mayor Steinberg: It's just, I would want to be careful that we're not --
Christopher Spera: There the enabling legislation's pretty clear, but I think that to be clear, if what
you want is a minimum four -resident threshold my preference would be to go back and make an
amendment to make it.
Mayor Burk: I think if you look at the BAR, I think they have four also, residents.
Vice Mayor Steinberg: I'm not saying they don't, I'm just saying I can anticipate that we might have
trouble filling the positions.
Eileen Boeing: The BAR, at the present, is all residents with the exception of the one, that is
allowable by code.
Mayor Burk: Are there four people that are interested in clarifying that? I think, yes. We already
asked that question. Okay. All right, thank you. I think I --
Christopher Spera: I know what you need.
Mayor Burk: Does anybody else have any --
Page 20IAugust 7, 2023
Christopher Spera: Are you okay on the rest of these proposed changes or do you not want me to
do them? Do you want me to do them?
Mayor Burk: I didn't have an issue with them, do you?
Council Member Cimino -Johnson: No, I don't have any issues with those, I just have another
question.
Mayor Burk: Okay, you can ask your question.
Council Member Cimino -Johnson: My question is I think I only saw where business people who
work in Town don't live here can serve.
Christopher Spera: There are a couple that allow people who are employed with and have their
place of business within the Town. The place of employment, I'm sorry, within the Town. Let's see.
Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Economic Development, I think Airport.
Christopher Spera: That was one and the Airport was the other.
Council Member Cimino -Johnson: But none of the others?
Christopher Spera: That's correct. I don't believe so. These were the seven that had different rules,
so Economic Development has works in the Town. Airport Commission has works in the Town. I don't
think there were any others.
Mayor Burk: I think that's about it.
Christopher Spera: No, it's just those two.
Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Would it be helpful to clarify that and add it to some of these
others? Only because, again, going back to it's tough to get members, it's tough to get people to
serve.
Christopher Spera: I think it's really up to you. I think you can see why Residential Traffic-- I don't
know that you want-- and maybe, on the Traffic Commission, you could have somebody who works in
the Town because by commuting into the Town, they're experiencing traffic. Maybe you could justify
that there. You probably don't want that on Planning Commission because that's working here versus
how you plan for what the development is are different things. I don't think architectural review you
want that. Maybe you could add it to economic development. That would probably make some sense
there.
Mayor Burk: It's already on there.
Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Yes, it's already on there.
Christopher Spera: Oh, I'm sorry. It's already on. Those are the two it's already on, so I don't know
where else you would add it. If there's another one you want me to add it to, I can do it.
Council Member Cimino -Johnson: Okay, thank you
Mayor Burk: Mr. Steinberg.
Vice Mayor Steinberg: Outside the broader conversation, I'm just wondering if we can do a better job
of informing citizens about these commissions and seeing if we can peak some interest because,
lately, we've just been bleeding commission members, and it's been increasingly difficult to replace
them. I don't know how we can do a better job in getting people more interested in actually serving,
but that's a conversation we probably need to have.
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Christopher Spera: Outside of my realm of expertise, but generally, when I have to try and get
people to volunteer for things, I usually give them stuff. Now, I will confess that most of the time, that's
in the context of sports -related organizations. Handing out t -shirts and hats and quarter zips, and
those kinds of things might work there and they might not work here, but beyond my expertise.
Mayor Burk: Thank you very much. We appreciate
Christopher Spera: I think I know what you need me to do. Thank you.
Mayor Burk: The next item that we have is proclamation requests. We do have one proclamation
request and it is for Constitution Week, and it would be September 12th. If we have four people that
agree with allowing this proclamation to go forward, we would do it on September 12th and vote on it
September 12th. Are there four people that would be interested in having Constitution Week
proclamation? That's everybody. Are there any future agenda topics?
Council Member Patrick Wilt: I have.
Mayor Burk: Mr. Wilt.
Council Member Wilt: Yes, I have a couple. The first one I want to suggest for discussion of mobile
food units. Businesses which residents find valuable but the zoning for them is inconsistent in the
business districts today. They're allowed as a temporary use in the B2 and the B3, but not the B1. I'd
be interested if folks want to hear from staff about making that zoning consistent with these mobile
food units allowed in the B1 in addition to the B2 and the B3.
Mayor Burk: Are there four people that want to talk about-- You are talking about food trucks, right?
Council Member Wilt: Yes.
Mayor Burk: Food trucks in the historic district.
Vice Mayor Steinberg: May I make comment or?
Mayor Burk: Yes.
Vice Mayor Steinberg: I appreciate the sentiment. I would only offer that this is a conversation we've
had in some detail. With regards specifically to the B1, we determined that property owners who can
accommodate food trucks are free to do so, and there may be some parking lots that will allow that,
but I think the only place we really limited them is actually in the streets of the B1. Because the streets
simply won't accommodate food trucks with the exception of special events.
Honestly, I'm not quite sure where we'll get with the -- I'm not adverse to having it, but we may just
wind right back up at the same place. Thanks.
Mayor Burk: Are there four people that want to have this discussion? 1, 2, 3, 4. All right. Is that it?
Council Member Wilt: One other thing. There was a Board of Architectural review some time ago. I
thought they came up with some good observations and it was relative to using some composite
material on some external applications. They observed that when they approved this, that the
composite material, which was made up of a synthetic material and a natural material, had safety
quality and environmental impact advantages. That this application was superior to the original
material and quality, and consistent with the original material and appearance.
I thought those observations were actually very interesting, and I'd like to explore if there's a wider
application to the use of composite and synthetic materials in the historic district, and to simplify the
process by making that at administrative approval. I'd be interested in hearing a staff report on that
topic.
Page 22IAugust 7, 2023
Mayor Burk: Are there are four people that are interested in hearing possible changes to the BAR
requirements on the historic district. Okay. Got enough people for that one. Is that it?
Council Member Wilt: That's it. Thanks, Mayor.
Mayor Burk: I guess, Mr. Cummings?
Council Member Cummings: Just I would like to see if we could invite the Virginia Department of
Transportation back, to discuss the intersection at South King, if they want to come back. To discuss
the intersection at South King and the Bypass and how we can speed up improving that, for our
residents.
Mayor Burk: Are there four people interested in that one? I think that's everybody. All right. Do I
have --
Council Member Nacy: Can I tag onto that?
Mayor Burk: Sure.
Council Member Nacy: I would specifically like some crash data at that intersection as well.
Mayor Burk: With crash data.
Council Member Nacy: Because getting onto the Bypass, there are a lot of nasty crashes. Yes.
Mayor Burk: Do you care if that's added on?
Council Member Cummings: That's perfect.
Mayor Burk: Everybody okay with that being added on? All right. Is there a motion to adjourn?
Vice Mayor Steinberg: So moved.
Council Member Nacy: Second.
Mayor Burk: All in favor?
Members: Aye.
Mayor Burk: Opposed? We are done.
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