HomeMy Public PortalAboutWilliam Thrasher Transcript 06/17/13 - Vol. 1I
WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE 15TH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT
IN AND FOR PALM BEACH COUNTY, FLORIDA
Case No. 502013CA0067SOXXXXMB AO
MARTIN E. O'BOYLE,
Plaintiff,
Vs.
TOWN OF GULF STREAM,
Defendant.
X
VOLUME I Page 1 to 122
DEPOSITION OF
WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO
TAKEN ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF
June 17, 2013
10:30 a.m. - 3:30 p.m.
100 Sea Road
Gulf Stream, FL 33483
Jennifer DiLorenzo, court reporter
June 17, 2013
1
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL
On behalf of the Plaintiff:
COMMERCE GROUP
BY: MARTIN E. O'BOYLE, pro se, and
MARRETT W. HANNA, ATTORNEY-AT-LAW, limited
appearance
1280 West Newport Center Drive
Deerfield Beach, FL 33442
954-570-3505
moboyle@commerce-group.com
mhanna@commerce-group.com
On behalf of the Defendant:
JONES, FOSTER, JOHNSTON & STUBBS, P.A.
BY: JOHN C. RANDOLPH, ESQ.
505 S. Flagler Drive
Suite 1100
West Palm Beach, FL 33401
561-659-3000
jrandolph@Jones-foster.com
ALSO PRESENT:
Ryan Witmer and Jonathan O'Boyle, Esq.
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
INDEX OF EXAMINATION
WITNESS:
WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO
DIRECT EXAMINATION
By Mr. O'Boyle
INDEX TO EXHIBITS
June 17, 2013
3
Plaintiff's
Exhibit
Description
1
Notice of Taking Deposition.
2
Subpoena Duces Tecum.
3
"Part 1. Application Requirements."
3A
E-mails.
3B
"Town of Gulf Stream Architectural
Review Planning Report."
3C
E-mails.
3D
E-mail and plan.
3E
E-mails.
3F
E-mails.
3G
E-mails.
3H
E-mails.
3I
E-mails.
3J
E-mails.
3K
E-mails.
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I June 17, 2013
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 4
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
INDEX OF EXHIBITS
Minor's
Exhibit Description
June 17, 2013
5
1 Subpoena Duces Tecum For Deposition.
2 CD.
3 Records Request 332.
4 E-mails.
5 E-mail.
6 E-mail.
7 E-mails.
8A Cover sheet, 113211 N. Ocean Boulevard
Subpoenaed Documents."
8B E-mails.
8C E-mails.
8D E-mails.
8E E-mails.
8F E-mails.
8G E-mails.
BH E-mails.
8I E-mails.
81 E-mails.
8K E-mails.
8L Plan.
9 ARPB Report.
(All Exhibits were attached to the original
transcript and copies of the transcript.)
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I June 17, 2013
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 6
1 Deposition of WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO
2 June 17, 2013
3
4 THE REPORTER: Do you swear the testimony
5 you're about to give will be the truth, the
6 whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help
7 you God?
8 THE WITNESS: I do.
9 -----------
10 WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO, having been
11 first duly sworn, was examined and testified as
12 follows:
13 DIRECT EXAMINATION
14 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
15 Q. Mr. Thrasher, my name is Martin O'Boyle and I
16 am a pro se Plaintiff in a action styled, "Martin O'Boyle
17 vs. the Town of Gulf Stream"; are you familiar with that
18 action?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. This morning you are here for a deposition and
21 we have provided a Notice of the Taking of Deposition,
22 and I'm going to ask the court reporter to mark it, show
23 it to you, and ask if you've seen it before.
24 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 1 was marked for
25 identification.)
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I June 17, 2013
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 7
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Okay. And how did you come to see it, Mr.
3 Thrasher?
4 A. It was provided to me. I don't remember
5 exactly.
6 Q. Was it provided to you by someone in the
7 building, Mr. Randolph?
8 A. I believe somebody in the building.
9 Q. Okay. And here is a second subpoena, this is
10 duces tecum, I'm going to ask the court reporter to mark
11 this.
12 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 2 was marked for
13 identification.)
14 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
15 Q. Have you seen that document which is marked
16 "Plaintiff's 2" before?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And how did you come to see that document?
19 A. Same manner.
20 Q. Now, that document requires you to produce
21 certain documents; have you produced those documents?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Now, you've just slid me over some paperwork
24 with a black clip and a CD; is that correct?
25 A. Yes.
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
June 17, 2013
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1 Q. Okay. And would these documents that you've
2 just given me be fully responsive to the request for
3 documents in Plaintiff's Exhibit 2?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. By the way, have you ever been deposed before?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Can you give me some background as to how many
8 times and in connection with what?
9
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MR. RANDOLPH: May I -- Excuse me, going
back to your question, when you referred to
Plaintiff's Exhibit 2 what did you mean? When
you asked if they were fully responsive to what
was requested in Plaintiff's Exhibit 2, will you
define for the witness what Plaintiff's
Exhibit 2 was? I'm not sure.
MR. O'BOYLE: Sure.
MR. RUDOLPH: I want to make sure he
understands the question.
MR. O'BOYLE: May I?
BY MR. O'BOYLE:
Q. Plaintiff's Exhibit 2 is a Subpoena Duces
Tecum for deposition and it is requiring you to bring any
reports or writings of any kind authored by Martin Minor
or William Thrasher which relate in any way to the
premises known as 3211 North Ocean Boulevard, Gulf
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
1 IStream, Florida.
June 17, 2013
9
2
MR.
RUDOLPH: Okay. Thank you. Just so
3
you know,
I didn't know whether you were
4
referring
to the Plaintiff's Exhibit 2 you've
5
had marked
for deposition or to some other
6
document that
might have been attached to your
7
Complaint.
8
MR.
O'BOYLE: I understand.
9
MR.
RANDOLPH: I wanted to clarify that.
10
MR.
O'BOYLE: Thank you for clearing that
11 up.
12 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
13 Q. Would you kindly answer my question?
14 A. Could you repeat it?
15 MR. O'BOYLE: Ms. Court Reporter, can you
16 read it back?
17 (The requested portion was read back.)
18 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
19 Q. The documents which you slid over to me which
20 are in a black clip, and there is a CD or a DVD in a
21 white envelope, are these documents fully responsive to
22 all of the documents requested on Plaintiff's Exhibit 2?
23 A. I believe I've answered that.
24 Q. Okay.
25 MR. RUDOLPH: He's trying to recreate the
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I June 17, 2013
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 10
1 record, why don't you go ahead?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Okay. You were going to tell us about your
4 depositions in the past.
5 A. I've had no depositions while employed by
6 the Town of Gulf Stream and I - my memory probably is
7 not going to serve me correctly, so I - I don't
8 remember exactly.
9 Q. Okay. Well, I appreciate you sharing that
10 with me, but I would like an answer to my question.
11 A. What's your question again?
12 Q. My question is - we'll start at the top -
13 you've been deposed before?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Okay. About how many times have you been
16 deposed?
17 A. You're asking me to guess?
18 Q. Your best recollection.
19 A. Two.
20 Q. Okay. And how long ago were you deposed?
21 A. Twenty to thirty years ago.
22 Q. And the two depositions, were they in
23 connection with the same matter or different matters?
24 A. If I remember correctly, they were two
25 separate matters.
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O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
June 17, 2013
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1 Q. And what type of matters would they have been?
2 A. Wrongful death claim.
3 Q. Pardon?
4 A. I believe a wrongful death claim --
5 Q. Yes.
6 A. -- and a condemnation, FDOT.
7 Q. I see. And were you the plaintiff, defendant,
8 or a witness?
9 A. I don't know. I don't remember.
10 Q. What state did it occur?
11 A. Florida.
12 Q. Were you represented by counsel?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Can you tell me who the counsel was?
15 A. I don't remember.
16 Q. You don't remember the counsel on either of
17 the cases?
18 A. I don't remember.
19 Q. Okay. By the way, as we go through this
20 deposition I may say things, ask you a question that you
21 may find unclear, should that be the case I would ask you
22 to please ask me to explain it and make sure that before
23 you answer the question that you're clear on what the
24 question is.
25 A. I'll try to remember that.
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O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
June 17, 2013
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1 Q. Okay. I would hope that you would have a
2 memory span long enough to remember that.
3 A. No comment.
4 Q. Okay. If during the course of the deposition
5 you need to use the facilities, you'll just say so and of
6 course we'll take a few minute break to allow you to do
7 that, and you need not make a comment.
8 A. Could you repeat that?
9 Q. I said if during the course of this deposition
10 you have to use the facilities, just tell us and we'll
11 take a break so that you can do that, and you need not
12 make a comment.
13 A. I understand.
14 Q. Okay. As far as the process for the
15 deposition, do you have any questions that I can answer
16 that would help you in understanding what we're doing
17 here today?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Okay. Mr. Thrasher, how old are you?
20 A. I was -- I'll be 66 in August.
21 Q. And are you a Floridian through and through or
22 did you come from another state?
23 1 A. No.
24 Q. No, you didn't come from another state?
25 A. I'm not a Floridian through and through.
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
June 17, 2013
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1
Q.
Okay. Where did you come from?
2
A.
Iowa.
3
Q.
When did you come to Florida?
4
A.
1968.
5
Q.
And what brought you here?
6
A.
Personal matter.
7
Q.
Such as?
8
A.
I got married.
9
Q.
So your purpose in coming to Florida was to be
10
married?
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
Your job history, can you take me from 1968 to
13
today?
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
Okay. Would you?
16
A.
Part-time employment.
17
Q.
That wouldn't have been with the dentist,
18
would it?
19
A.
No.
20 Q. Because it seems like this is dentistry that
21 we're going through today.
22 A. No comment.
23 MR. RANDOLPH: Object to the form.
24 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
25 Q. Part-time employment, can you expand on that?
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I June 17, 2013
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 14
1
A.
Cabinetry work.
2
Q.
I'm sorry, I didn't catch that.
3
A.
Cabinetry work --
4
Q.
And -- Go ahead, I'm sorry.
5
A.
-- delivery person, K -Mart salesperson.
6
Q.
These were all at the same time?
7
A.
I had more than one job, yes.
8
Q.
These were all at the same time?
9
A.
Same period.
10
Q.
Okay. Well, let's start with the cabinetry;
11
when
did
you start there, who was the company, where were
12
they
located?
I'll ask them one at a time, but I want to
13
give
you
a sense. When did you start there?
14
A.
I don't remember exactly, approximately
15
'68.
16
Q.
And who was the company?
17
A.
Don't remember the name, the owner was
18
Fremont
Cavanaugh.
19
Q.
I'm sorry?
20
A.
I don't remember the name of the business;
21
the
employer
was Fremont Cavanaugh.
22
Q.
And your role?
23
A.
Sander.
24
Q.
And you departed?
25
A.
I graduated from college.
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O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 15
1 Q. I'm sorry, what year did you resign, leave?
2 A. It was a part-time job. I don't remember
3 (when I left.
4 Q. About how long were you there?
5 A. Off and on a couple years.
6 Q. Going back to Plaintiff's Exhibit 2 and the
7 documents that you produced, where did those documents
8 come from?
9 A. Town clerk.
10 Q. Without trying to put words in your mouth, my
11 recollection is that you said that all that is here in
12 this pile with the black clip and the DVD with the white
13 envelope were responsive to Plaintiff's Exhibit 2, which
14 is the Subpoena Duces Tecum For Deposition; am I correct?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Okay. How do you know that?
17 A. To the best of my ability, I looked for
18 such documents. I believe that they have been
19 provided to you.
20 Q. Did I miss it or a moment ago didn't you say
21 that the documents came from the town clerk?
22 A. The copies came from the town clerk, yes.
23 Q. Okay.
24 A. This particular stack.
25 Q. Pardon?
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
June 17, 2013
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A. This stack that I provided you.
Q. So just so I'm clear, you provided all of the
documents to the town clerk, correct? And when I say,
"all of the documents," all of the documents in this pile
here with the black clip that was in response to
Plaintiff's Exhibit 2, the Subpoena Duces Tecum.
A. No.
Q. Okay. Can you explain?
A. This stack of documents was provided from
Marty Minor to our town clerk, excluding my staff
report as it relates to the subject property and one
other e-mail, I asked her to provide that to me.
Q. Can you pull those two documents out of there?
A. Yes.
Q. Would you?
A. (The witness complied.)
Q. Oh, I'm sorry.
MR. O'BOYLE: Ms. Court Reporter, do you
want to mark these since they came out of
Exhibit 2; do you want to mark them 112A" and
u2B"?
Skip, any objection?
MR. RANDOLPH: No objection.
(Plaintiff's Exhibits 2A and 2B were
marked for identification.)
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O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
June 17, 2013
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1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2 Q. Mr. Thrasher, what you have handed me, I'm
3 going to ask if you don't mind to put that black clip
4 back on so that we don't somehow --
5 A. (The witness complied.)
6 Q. Mr. Thrasher, the court reporter has just
7 marked two documents from Exhibit --
8 (Discussion off the record.)
9 (Plaintiff's Exhibits 3, 3A, and 3B were
10 marked for identification.)
11 IBY MR. O'BOYLE:
12 Q. Mr. Thrasher, I apologize, we were just off
13 the record correcting a ministerial item, and that is the
14 documents you produced pursuant to the Subpoena Duces
15 Tecum, which is Plaintiff's Exhibit 2, we had those
16 documents or the entire group of documents marked as
17 "Exhibit 3" and the two documents which you had pulled
18 out we have marked them as "Exhibit 3A" and 113B" instead
19 of "2A" and 112B."
20 Those two documents can best be described -
21 and of course if you can describe them better, that's
22 fine with me - as an e-mail that was printed by Bill
23 Thrasher from Benjamin Schreier, dated May 28, 2013 at
24 2:19 p.m., and it's addressed to Bill Thrasher, and below
25 that there are probably four or five e-mails, and that
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol.
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
June 17, 2013
18
would be Plaintiff's Exhibit 3A.
In addition, you provided a document entitled,
"Town of Gulf Stream Architectural Review and Planning
Report," and that is 3B that has been marked 1133."
Tell us again, if you don't mind, and you can
do it one at a time, how you came across each of those
documents.
A. Exhibit 3B is my staff report provided to
the Boards and Commission, the --
Q. Excuse me, you said, "provided to something
and the Commission."
A. The ARPB.
Q. I see.
A. Architectural Review and Planning Board
for their review and to the Town Commission with the
exception in the area following the different types
of action a decision of the Board and Commission was
modified to reflect those decisions.
Q. So let me make sure I understand, and I think
I do, the document went to the ARPB, their decision was
then inserted on the document and then it went to the
Commission, and that was the only change - the insertion
of their decision.
A. Yes.
Q. Now, referring again to Exhibit 3B, would it
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O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 19
1 be correct to say that all of the insertions -- And when
2 I say, "insertions," there seems to be headings, and I
3 assume they're boilerplate headings; would that be
4 correct?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Okay. So what I'm talking about, boilerplate
7 headings are on the left side in bold and are you saying
8 they're not boilerplate headings?
9 A. In my opinion, they are not.
10 Q. Pardon?
11 A. No.
12 Q. No, they're not?
13 A. (Witness shakes head.)
14 Q. Okay. Can you show me which ones are not?
15 A. Those listed are often used, but not
16 necessarily applicable based on the type of
17 application.
18 Q. But they are boilerplate, meaning they're on
19 the form?
20 A. If you are asking me if they're on the
21 form, the answer is, yes.
22 Q. Okay. That's what I'm asking you. Thank you.
23 And besides the boilerplate or the on -the -form
24 writings, everything else on this report you generated?
25 A. Yes.
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
out?
June 17, 2013
20
Q. Did you have the input of anyone in filling it
A.
I had input.
Q.
That was not my question.
A.
Could you repeat the question?
Q.
Sure. Let me just repeat the question: Who
did you have input from in completing that form?
A.
Rita, town clerk.
Q.
Pardon?
A.
Rita, town clerk.
Q.
Where did Rita, the town clerk, assist you in
completing
that form?
A.
Reviewing my recommendations and report.
Q.
Did she change it?
A.
No.
Q. So she didn't assist you in completing the
form, she assisted you in reviewing the form.
A. That's valuable assistance and input.
Q. Is Rita qualified to do that?
A. Yes.
Q. And what makes her qualified?
A. Her background, her experience, her desire
to serve the Town and the residents, her
intelligence, and her work ethic.
Q. You went a little fast for me: Background,
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
June 17, 2013
21
1 experience, desire to serve the Town --
2 A. And residents.
3 Q. -- intelligence, and I think I missed one or
4 two more.
5
A.
Work ethic.
6
Q.
Work ethic?
7
A.
I must have been rambling, I don't
8
remember
others.
9
Q.
Okay. What does work ethic have to do with
10
filling out that form or reviewing that form or providing
11
input on
that form?
12
A.
Nothing filling it out. Reviewing it and
13
providing
input. It is an indication to me that she
14
will provide
adequate, complete, and thorough
15
evaluation of my work product.
16
Q.
But she has to know how. As an example, I
17
think I have a good work ethic, but I could never build a
18
cyclotron
in my backyard, nor could I give input or
19
advice.
20
A.
I have nothing further to add.
21
Q.
Pardon?
22
A.
I have nothing further to add.
23
Q.
Okay. In connection with Rita's work ethic,
24
that's a
sort of a broad nebulous term; what does it mean
25 Ito you?
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O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
June 17, 2013
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1
A.
I thought I answered that.
2
Q.
You may answer.
3
A.
I said I thought I answered that.
4
Q.
And I said you may answer.
5
A.
I have nothing further to add.
6
Q.
What work ethic means? If you would like, the
7
court reporter
can read back.
8
A.
I would like that.
9
Q.
Okay.
10
(The requested portion was read back.)
11
A.
I have nothing further to add.
12
MR. O'BOYLE: Mr. Randolph, would you
13
instruct
the witness to answer the question?
14
MR. RANDOLPH: All I can instruct him to
15
do
is to answer to the best of his ability. If
16
he
feels that he has been responsive to your
17
question,
then I can't force him to say anything
18
more
than that.
19
I mean, the question that's posed to you,
20
Mr.
Thrasher, is: What does work ethic mean to
21
you?
22
A.
Is that your question?
23
Q.
Yes.
24
MR. RANDOLPH: I believe that was his
25
question.
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I June 17, 2013
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 23
1 1 A. Work ethic to me means the sincerity in
2 which a person performs their job responsibilities.
3 Q. So, in your opinion, Rita is sincere?
4 1 A. Yes.
5 Q. And how does being sincere qualify one for
6 reviewing a report for a Planning Commission and a Town
7 Commission, a report that is hundreds of pages and is
8 full of, in my opinion, legalese?
9 MR. RANDOLPH: I would like to raise an
10
objection
at this point and
just indicate that I
11
do not see
how the question
is reasonably
12
calculated
to lead to discoverable evidence in
13 this particular case.
14 We're here on a public records request to
15 determine whether or not public records have
16 been provided in accordance to law, whether
17 there's been an overcharge, whether or not they
18 should have been provided electronically, and
19 it's difficult for me to determine how this
20 particular question relates to admissible
21 evidence.
22 I would just ask, and I understand you
23 have some latitude here and we're really only
24 into background questions at this particular
25 1 time, but I don't see show that's calculated to
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
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24
lead to discoverable evidence in this case.
At some point I will ask you to try to get
into what is discoverable in this case as
opposed to asking questions which seem, at least
to me, to be unrelated at this time, but I
wanted to raise that in the event these kinds of
questions continue, so I'm just stating that for
the record at this particular point in time.
MR. O'BOYLE: Well, I appreciate that, Mr.
Randolph, but I think we can probably move
things along a little bit quicker if you would
just make an objection to the extent that you
wish to make an objection and we move on.
The filibusters are great for the
Congress, but I don't think we need them here
this morning.
MR. RANDOLPH: Well, this is not
filibuster. I'm just trying to explain to you
as a reasonable person that if this deposition
gets to the point that there are numerous
questions which I do not believe are reasonably
calculated to lead to admissible evidence we'll
have to terminate the deposition and let the
Court rule on it, so I just wanted to advise you
of that in the event that these kinds of
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I June 17, 2013
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 25
1 questions continue.
2 MR. O'BOYLE: Thank you.
3 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
4 Q. You may answer.
5 A. Repeat the question.
6 (The requested portion was read back.)
7 A. I don't understand your question in
8 association with hundreds of pages of reports and
9 legalese.
10 Q. I think either I said it wrong, Mr. Thrasher,
11 or the court reporter got it wrong. I was saying that
12 the report emanates from the Gulf Stream Code, which is
13 hundreds of pages, and how one who is sincere could have
14 the ability to review and provide input - that was my
15 question.
16 A. I did not realize you were referring to
17 our Gulf Stream manual.
18 Q. But now you do.
19 A. I do. In order for a person to be
20 sincere, I believe that person has to be brutally
21 honest, and I believe that Rita is brutally honest as
22 it relates to reviewing my reports based on her
23 history with the Town of Gulf Stream and hearing such
24 reports provided to the various Boards.
25 Q. With all due respect, I know a lot of people
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I June 17, 2013
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 26
that are brutally honest, but I don't know whether or not
I would - and I believe I have a lot of experience - I
would trust them to review the Town Code, to review your
report which emanates from the Town Code. I don't see
the nexus --
A. I understand.
Q. -- can you help me out?
A. I understand.
MR. RANDOLPH: I'm going to object to the
form of the question because I don't believe it
corresponds to the witness's answer. He did not
indicate that she had reviewed this report
simply because she was sincere and because she
was brutally honest. He gave you a lengthy list
of qualifications for her to review the report.
BY MR. O'BOYLE:
Q. Well, Mr. Thrasher, I apologize because the
lengthy list of qualifications, I missed them. I do know
that you said that she is brutally honest and I know you
said - these are my words, not yours - that she's been
around for a while.
A. I understand what you're stating.
Q. Okay. And does brutally honest and being
around for a while, does that give one the capabilities
to provide input or to review a report which is akin to
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
1313?
June 17, 2013
27
A. Exclusively, no.
Q. Non -exclusively?
A. It would be part and parcel.
Q. Part and parcel of what?
A. What would qualify her to do so.
Q. What would be non -exclusively and part and
parcel that would qualify her to do so? You lost me.
A. I believe I've answered that. I have
nothing further to add.
Q. Okay. Well, I don't think you have answered
that, so we'll stick with it for a while.
What are Ms. Taylor's qualifications in
planning and zoning matters?
A. Her experience, her understanding of the
Code, her assistance in developing the Code, her
ability to articulate and decipher the Code.
Q. I didn't write down as quickly as you talked.
I wrote "understanding" and "deciphering."
A. Maybe she could help you. I'm sorry,
maybe the stenographer could help you.
(The requested portion was read back.)
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
THE REPORTER: You're welcome.
25 IBY MR. O'BOYLE:
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
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1 Q. How and when did she gain all of these levels
2 of proficiency?
3 A. That's unknown to me.
4 Q. Was it magic?
5 MR. RANDOLPH: Object to the form of the
6 question.
7 A. No.
8 Q. Did she take college courses?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Did you teach her?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Did the code fairy teach her?
13 MR. RANDOLPH: Object to the form. And
14 again, without filibustering, I'm going to raise
15 my concern about questions that are not
16 calculated to lead to discovery in this
17 particular case, and I would ask you to move on
18 in this deposition to those matters which are
19 the subject of this deposition. It's reasonable
20 to ask the background and experience of people
21 in the beginning of your deposition, but I
22 believe you've gone beyond that.
23 The question was, "Did the tooth fairy do
24 this?" and I objected to the form. You can
25 answer.
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
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29
1 A. I have no idea what you're talking about.
2 Q. Okay. She has an understanding, I don't want
3 to put words in your mouth, but I think you said a keen
4 understanding of the Code, and the Code being what I'm
5 going to refer to as the "Town of Gulf Stream, Florida,
6 Land Development Regulations Book; we call it, "The Red
7 Book," some people it call it "The Code."
8 A. Is there a question?
9 Q. Yes.
10 A. What is it?
11 Q. Where did she gain the understanding?
12 A. I've answered the question.
13 Q. Okay.
14 MR. RANDOLPH: Can you answer it again?
15 THE WITNESS: May I ask the court reporter
16 to repeat my answer?
17 (The requested portion was read back.)
18 MR. RANDOLPH: Mr. Thrasher, I would ask
19 you to the best of your ability to answer the
20 question even though you think you've answered
21 it before.
22 The question is, "Where did she gain the
23 ability to decipher and interpret the Code?" or
24 something like that - your question was
25 something like that.
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
June 17, 2013
30
1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2 Q. Where did she gain the understanding of the
3 Code?
4 A. I have no way of answering that question.
5 I don't know where she got the understanding, she
6 just has it.
7 MR. RANDOLPH: Okay. That's your answer,
8 I guess.
9 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
10 Q. I'm sorry, I didn't catch that.
11 A. I said I do not know where she gained the
12 understanding, I just know that she has it.
13 Q. Okay. Have you seen her studying the Code
14 book?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Okay. Has she made inquiry to you on sections
17 of the Code book?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Okay. So would it be correct to say that she
20 believes that you have a higher level of understanding
21 with regard to the Code book or the Code than she does in
22 her eyes?
23 MR. RANDOLPH: Object to the form. The
24 same objection as stated earlier, outside the
25 scope of this deposition.
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I June 17, 2013
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 31
Do you understand the question?
THE WITNESS: No.
MR. RANDOLPH: Wasn't the question
something like, Do you believe that in her mind
she believes that she has a better understanding
than you of the Code book; was it similar to
that?
MR. O'BOYLE: Yes, it was the opposite,
Mr. Randolph.
BY MR. O'BOYLE:
Q. Since she comes to you, makes inquiry about
the Code book, would it be fair to say that she believes
that your level of understanding of the Code book would
be higher than hers?
A. No.
Q. Would she believe that it would be lower than
hers?
18
19
20 hers?
21
22
23
24
25
A. No.
Q. Would she believe it would be the same as
Q. You don't leave me much choice.
MR. RANDOLPH: I guess maybe a question
is: Do you know what her belief is in that
regard? I can't ask your question for you.
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I June 17, 2013
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 32
1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2 Q. Do you know what her belief is in that regard?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Okay. Deciphering the Code, give me an
5 example of her deciphering the Code.
6 A. I don't have an example for you.
7 Q. But you know that she can decipher the Code.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Okay. Do you remember what year it was when
10 she deciphered the Code in your presence or whether it be
11 telephonically, visually?
12 A. What year?
13 Q. Yes.
14 A. Every year I've been here.
15 Q. Oh, so you do know when. You said a moment
16 ago you didn't know when.
17 A. But I don't know an exact date.
18 Q. I didn't ask you for an exact date.
19 A. Okay. Well, then I've provided you an
20 answer.
21 Q. Okay. So every year since you've been here,
22 did you say?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Okay. So you've been here 17 years; am I
25 correct in that?
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
A. Since April 196.
Q. Okay. So --
A. I don't know what that math is.
Q. You don't know --
A. No.
June 17, 2013
33
Q. -- April 196 to June of 2012, how many years
that is?
A. No.
Do you want to take a minute and just think
A. No.
Q. You don't want to take a minute?
A. No.
MR. RANDOLPH: The record is clear. The
calendar will tell us how many years. He told
you when he came here and you know what today's
date is, so there's no point in pushing forward
with that.
MR. O'BOYLE: It's just showing the
resistance of the witness, Mr. Randolph. It
would not take much thought. A third grader
could figure that out in probably less than 10
seconds.
Mr. Thrasher is obviously looking to
disrupt this deposition and I think that's clear
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
June 17, 2013
34
1 and concise evidence of his intentions and I
2 think it's been since the moment we've started
3 it and I think he has now shown us the high
4 point of it. Hopefully the high points won't
5 continue to grow and hopefully he'll be much
6 more cooperative.
7 MR. RANDOLPH: I disagree with your
8 characterization of the witness. I don't think
9 he's trying to disrupt this deposition. I think
10 he's trying to answer the questions to the best
11 of his ability.
12 MR. O'BOYLE: Well, that's your opinion.
13 MR. RANDOLPH: Well, yes, it is, and
14 that's why I stated it. I stated it as an
15 opinion.
16 MR. O'BOYLE: And that's fine.
17
MR. RANDOLPH: But I --
18
MR. O'BOYLE: I've stated mine
as an
19
opinion.
20
MR. RANDOLPH: I think part of
the problem
21
here
is the questions that are being
asked do
22
not
relate to evidence that's discoverable in
23
this
particular public records case,
and I would
24
just
ask you to move on in regard to
what you
25
deem
is discoverable in this case.
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
June 17, 2013
35
1 You might want to explain to me how the
2 ability of the clerk to interpret the Code
3 relates to this case.
4 MS. HANNA: Excuse me.
5 MR. RANDOLPH: May I request a break?
6 MR. O'BOYLE: Sure.
7 (Short break.)
8 MR. O'BOYLE: Back on the record.
9 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
10
Q.
Mr. Thrasher, I was asking you some questions
11
about Ms.
Taylor's qualifications, generally stated, as
12
it applied to the document 3B, that would be Plaintiff's
13
Exhibit 3B.
I believe that you said that she reviewed or
14
gave you
input and so forth into it, correct?
15
A.
She reviewed it for me, yes.
16
Q.
Okay. Did Marty Minor review it for you?
17
A.
No.
18
Q.
He never saw it?
19
A.
Prior to the meeting he never saw it, no.
20
Q.
Prior to the meeting, which meeting would that
21
be?
22
A.
ARPB.
23
Q.
How about prior to the commissioners' meeting?
24
A.
I -- I don't have -- I don't know. I
25
don't know. I think he has seen it because I know he
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
June 17, 2013
36
1
had seen
it from
the - his deposition, but I think he
2
answered
that's
the first time he saw it actually at
3
his deposition,
that's --
4
Q.
Did you read his deposition?
5
A.
No, I
did not.
6
Q.
Then
how'd you know what you just said, that
7 1 he --
8 -
8 A. Well, I was sitting here.
9 Q. Oh, yes, yes, that's right you were, that's
10 right. Okay.
11 MR. O'BOYLE: Plaintiff's Exhibit 3, which
12 is this group of papers and the disc, could I
13 impose upon the court reporter to designate them
14 beginning with 3C?
15 (Plaintiff's Exhibits 3C to 3Q were marked
16 for identification.)
17 MR. O'BOYLE: Back on the record.
18 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
19 Q. Mr. Thrasher, the court reporter just marked
20 each of the documents as opposed to the pages, each of
21 the documents that you supplied this morning in response
22 to the Subpoena Duces Tecum, which I believe was
23 Plaintiff's Exhibit 2, and now we have in front of you I
24 should say a pile of those documents all with different
25 and separate designations.
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
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June 17, 2013
37
I guess here's my first question: I was
watching TV last night and I heard somebody use the
phrase, "that's been doctored"; have you ever heard that
phrase?
A. Yes.
Q. What does that mean?
A. Something that has been altered with a
negative connotation.
Q. When I was a child, I was 18, I worked in a
container factory and we had a process where you start
off with paper, it's rolled up, then it's cut into the
container size, and then there are rings and bands put on
it, then it's put into a crimping machine, and right on
down the line a bottom is put in and so forth and when
all done it's a container, the type you have in a gas
station that might have soap in it, the cardboard kind,
so there's a process, there's a manufacturing process.
When it comes to public records, what's the
manufacturing process here?
MR. RANDOLPH: Object to the form. Do you
know what he means?
THE WITNESS: Not really.
MR. RANDOLPH: He told you at the
beginning of the --
A. Manufacturing, it sounds as though --
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1 Q. I shouldn't have used "manufacturing."
2 What is the process from when the request for
3 a record comes into the door to it ends up going out of
4 the door?
5
(Mr. Jonathan O'Boyle entered.)
6
A.
The individual requests public records, in
7
our specific
instance to the custodian of the
8
records,
and we are to respond as soon as possible in
9
a - I've
lost the expression I'm looking for, the -
10
as soon
as possible, and I can't recall what the
11
statute
says, but as soon as possible in a normal
12
course of business, something of that nature, but as
13
soon as
possible.
14
Q.
Okay. The Public Records Law, what law would
15
that be?
16
A.
Maybe -- I -- I would state Chapter 119.
17 I'm not sure.
18 Q. And Chapter 119 gives the public the right to
19 obtain public records, save the exceptions that are
20 provided, the exceptions or exemptions provided within
21 the statute; would that be a fair statement?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Tell me what you know about the common law
24 Right to Know.
25 A. I don't know any more than I've stated,
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O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
June 17, 2013
39
1
that it's
a powerful provision according to anybody
2
to have access
to public records.
3
Q.
As an example, is it possible that someone
4
might not
be entitled to a record under Chapter 119 but
5
entitled
to it under the common law right?
6
MR. RANDOLPH: Object to the form.
7
A.
I -- I don't know. I just know that we
8
are to respond
as quickly as possible, that it's a
9
powerful
law, and the public has the right to the
10
records.
11
Q.
Now, when you say, "to the records," to --
12
A.
Public --
13
Q.
-- which?
14
A.
-- records.
15
Q.
All public records?
16
A.
Except for those that are exempted. I
17
don't know what those would be, but I would have
18
clarity from
our attorney.
19
Q.
Okay.
20
A.
My first instinct was to provide them.
21
Q.
Now, of late you've dealt with some public
22
record requests, have you not?
23
A.
Some.
24
Q.
Have you personally dealt with them?
25
A.
Some.
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
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June 17, 2013
40
Q. What would distinguish you personally dealing
with them versus you not dealing with them?
A. The custodian of the records would receive
the public record request and distribute or request
from the applicable person those records.
Q. Those records?
A. Public --
Q. I'm not --
A. Public records.
Q. When you say, "the applicable person," are you
talking about the requestor?
A. No, the person that is identified in the
public records request by the requestor.
Q. That would be the Town of Gulf Stream, as an
example, or the custodian of records, which are I think
one in the same?
A. Custodian of records.
Q. Okay. Are you the custodian of the records?
A. No.
Q. Who is?
A. Town clerk.
Q. And how did she become custodian of the
records?
A. I do not know the answer to that question.
Q. Who worked here first? When I say, "here,"
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O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
1 Ithe Town of Gulf Stream
June 17, 2013
41
2 A. Who are you comparing?
3 Q. I'm sorry. I apologize. You and Ms. Taylor.
4 A. Rita Taylor was here first.
5 Q. Okay. And when did she become custodian of
6 the records?
7 A. I don't know the answer to that question.
8 Q. Okay. But she is the custodian of the records
9 now?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Does she ever come to you with, "I got a
12 request for the sign -in sheet" - I'm just making it up,
13 of course - "what do I do?"; meaning, "I got a request
14 here, I don't know what to do," or is she that proficient
15 in the scheme of what is a public record and isn't under
16 the various laws?
17 MR. RANDOLPH: Object to the form.
18 A. The question is -- Could you simplify your
19 question?
20 Q. How proficient is Ms. Taylor when it comes to
21 reading, interpreting, complying with Chapter 119?
22 A. I believe she's proficient.
23 Q. You think she is proficient, okay. And what
24 gave you that impression?
25 A. Her ability to respond to public records
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O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
1 Irequests.
June 17, 2013
42
2
Q.
Have you ever seen the responses she's made?
3
A.
In some cases, yes.
4
Q.
And have you ever seen the requested requests
5
and juxtaposed
them against the responses?
6
A.
I -- I don't understand that question.
7
Q.
Okay. You have a request in your left hand --
8
A.
Yeah.
9
Q.
-- and a response in your right.
10
A.
Right.
11
Q.
If they ask you for a chocolate bar --
12
A.
Yeah.
13
Q.
-- and you give them a chicken salad sandwich,
14
that's
not a very good response.
15
MR. RANDOLPH: Object to the form.
16
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
17
Q.
If they ask you for a chocolate bar and you
18
give a
chocolate bar, that seems to me to be a pretty
19
good response,
that's what I'm trying to --
20
A.
Do I think --
21
Q.
Have you ever looked at her --
22
A.
Do I believe she's responsive? Yes.
23
Q.
Right. But in connection with her responses,
24
do you
believe that she is proficient that when someone
25
asks for the chocolate bar, and I use that just as an
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I June 17, 2013
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 43
1 example, that she provides the chocolate bar and not a
2 peanut bar?
3 A. I believe that she is. If she felt
4 otherwise she would ask our attorney for assistance.
5 Q. Okay. When the request comes in, meaning the
6 records request, who does it go to?
7 A. It goes to the custodian of records.
8 Q. Okay. And then what?
9 A. She will respond accordingly to the best
10 of her ability.
11 Q. Well, as an example, if she was asked for a
12 letter from Mr. Randolph that was not privileged, just as
13 an example, she couldn't respond without getting that
14 letter; how would she get that letter?
15 A. Ask Mr. Randolph --
16 Q. Yes.
17 A. -- the attorney.
18 Q. Okay. So if, as an example, there was a
19 request and the request was documents from you --
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. -- how would she get those documents?
22 A. She would ask me for them.
23 Q. Okay. And you would give her the documents?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Okay. And how would you get the documents?
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1
And when
I say, "get the documents," it's not a clear
2
question.
Some people are very computer efficient, they
3
could go
on their computer and have them in 30 seconds,
4
some people
it takes them hours on end, some people would
5
have to call
their IT guy.
6
Maybe a better question to ask would be:
7
What's your level of your computer abilities?
8
A.
A working knowledge.
9
Q.
Pardon?
10
A.
A working knowledge.
11
Q.
And in what softwares?
12
A.
Microsoft, accounting.
13
Q.
But specifically what softwares?
14
A.
Munis, Black Duck, Microsoft Office,
15
Excel, Word, PowerPoint, there may be others.
16
Q.
Outlook?
17
A.
Outlook.
18
Q.
Are you proficient in Outlook?
19
A.
I have a working knowledge of Outlook.
20
Q.
Okay. And do you have a, I don't know that
21
I'll use
the term right, but a personal device like an i5
22
or whatever they're called, Black Berry, where you get
23
mail outside of your computer?
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
Okay. Do you have a personal e-mail address?
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45
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. May I have it?
3 A. BPThrasher@comcast.net.
4 Q. Just to make sure I have it: B, Bravo, P,
5 Papa, Thrasher@comcast.net?
6 A. Correct.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. I have one other one, a gmail. I don't
9 use it much and don't know what it is.
10 Q. You don't know what it is?
11 A. Don't know.
12 Q. Okay. Do you receive any e-mails from any of
13 the officials in Gulf Stream? When I say, "officials,"
14 I'm going to cast a broad net: The police department,
15 the commissioners, the Architectural Review Board, Rita
16 Taylor, and I guess the other ladies over there. Do you
17 receive any communications on Bravo, Papa,
18 Thrasher@comcast.net?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Not a one?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Okay. Have you ever sent an e-mail to the
23 commissioners, the same group of people, any of them,
24 under BPThrasher --
25 A. I don't believe so.
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1 Q. -- @comcast.net? You've never done it?
2 A. I don't believe so.
3 Q. And I assume that you have, I think, a Gulf
4 Stream address, I think it's BThrasher@Gulf.Stream.org?
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. And that would be the e-mail account that you
7 would use for all e-mails coming to you or being sent for
8 official business, public records, so to speak?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Okay. When we made the request --
11 MR. RANDOLPH: Off the record.
12 (Discussion off the record.)
13 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 4 was marked for
14 identification.)
15 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
16 Q. Now, Mr. Thrasher, I'm going to hand to you a
17 records request, which the requestor was Martin O'Boyle
18 and the requestee was a custodian of records, Town of
19 Gulf Stream, it's identified as Request 332, dated
20 April 15, 2012, and it is marked "Plaintiff's Exhibit 411;
21 would you kindly take a look at that?
22 A. (Witness complied.)
23 Q. Have you ever seen that before?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. When?
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47
1 A. Reviewed it this morning.
2 Q. First time?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Okay. Can we --
5 A. I don't remember when.
6 Q. Well --
7 A. I know it's just not my first time seeing
8 it.
9 Q. Would it have been before April 15th?
10 A. It's possible. I don't remember.
11 MR. RANDOLPH: Well, it's dated April
12 15th.
13 MR. O'BOYLE: How about that.
14 MR. RANDOLPH: Mr. Thrasher, is it
15 possible that you could have seen it before
16 April 15th?
17 THE WITNESS: No.
18 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
19 Q. Okay. We're now 60 days past April 15th. Can
20 you give us any indication of when you've seen it; a week
21 ago, two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, five weeks, one
22 month, two months, any indication?
23 A. April.
24 Q. You saw it in April?
25 A. (Witness nods head.)
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I June 17, 2013
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 48
Q. Okay. How did you see it? Tell me how you
got to see it.
A. I -- I don't remember.
Q. Well, unless I'm mistaken, and I could be,
this was the request that if I were the custodian of
records I would come in to see you and say, "I have a
request for records asking for documents authored by
you."
A. Okay.
Q. No one ever did that?
MR. RANDOLPH: Object to the form of the
previous question. You can answer.
A. I -- I don't remember, just don't
remember.
Q. You do know the Town got sued; am I correct?
A. I am familiar with some parts of it, yes.
Q. Do you know why the Town got sued?
A. Public records nonresponsive.
(Plaintiff's Exhibit 5 was marked for
identification.)
BY MR. O'BOYLE:
Q. Mr. Thrasher, I'm going to show you that which
is a Verified Complaint to Enforce Florida's Public
Records Act and For Declaratory and Monetary Relief, and
ask you to take your time and read it.
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1 MR. RANDOLPH: Excuse me, is that marked?
2 What did we mark this?
3 MR. O'BOYLE: Five.
4 A. I briefly read it. I haven't thoroughly
5 read it.
6 Q. Would you thoroughly read it?
7 A. I can't make any more sense out of it than
8 I already have.
9 Q. So can we then for the record state that you
10 have read it and you fully understand it?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Then read it, please.
13 A. It involves certain legal items that I may
14 not be aware of or understand.
15 Q. Can you show me which paragraphs you're
16 talking about or put a circle around them?
17 MR. RANDOLPH: May I assist? I don't want
18 to interrupt if you don't want me to interrupt,
19 but it just seems to me the question is: Does
20 he understand the nature of the Complaint and
21 what's being asked for in the Complaint?
22 MR. O'BOYLE: I think that's correct.
23 A. Then I understand the nature of the
24 Complaint.
25 Q. That's good enough. That's why it's always
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
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good to have a fellow like Mr. Randolph here.
A. Indeed, for more than one reason.
Q. What would be the other reason?
A. Personal.
Q. What would it be?
A. No answer.
MR. O'BOYLE: Mr. Randolph, would you
instruct your client to answer the question?
MR. RANDOLPH: I -- I'm not sure what he
means by that, but I'm not sure how it relates
to this deposition either.
MR. O'BOYLE: I understand that.
BY MR. O'BOYLE:
Q. Would you answer the question now?
A. I'm familiar with Mr. Randolph.
Q. Right.
A. For that reason.
MR. RANDOLPH: I guess that's his answer.
A. That's my answer.
Q. And how does that interact with personal? I
mean, I'm familiar with, or was, Mickey Mantel, but I
didn't need him at a deposition.
MR. RANDOLPH: Look, I'm his attorney, I'm
the Town's attorney, that's why I'm here, that's
why he's glad that I'm here.
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1 You went beyond that and asked the
2 question about - when you made the sort of a
3 snide comment about, "That's why it's good to
4 have Mr. Randolph here," he said, "Yes, and for
5 other reasons."
6 MR. O'BOYLE: Well, that's --
7 MR. RANDOLPH: The other reason is I'm the
8 Town attorney and I'm representing him in this
9 deposition.
10 MR. O'BOYLE: That was not a snide
11 comment, Mr. Randolph, that was made with
12 sincerity. I think you're a wonderful lawyer
13 and good man.
14 MR. RANDOLPH: Thank you.
15 MR. O'BOYLE: And he's fortunate to have
16 you as his counsel, but you now raise a question
17 that I would like to ask Mr. Thrasher about.
18 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
19 Q. Is Mr. Randolph your personal attorney, Mr.
20 Thrasher?
21 A. No.
22 Q. No?
23 A. No.
24 Q. He represents the Town?
25 A. He does.
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
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Q. Okay. Because I just thought I heard him say
he represents the Town and you.
MR. RANDOLPH: He's my client.
BY MR. O'BOYLE:
Q. Would that be incorrect?
MR. RANDOLPH: He's my client.
BY MR. O'BOYLE:
Q. You're his client?
A. He's the representative of the Town of
Gulf Stream for purposes of this case.
Q. And you are his client, correct?
A. I think the Town is his client and I
represent the Town in this case.
Q. You make all the decisions in the Town in this
case?
A. No, I make -- No.
Q. Okay. Mr. Thrasher --
A. Yes.
Q. -- this lawsuit was filed on April 24, 2012,
the records request was made April 15, 2012, so there was
a nine -day period in between. Someone did come to you
and ask you to provide the records in response to this
request, did they not?
A. No, I don't recall that.
Q. Okay. All right. By the way, are you aware
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53
1 that providing the public public records is a right
2 provided not just under Chapter 119 or the common law
3 rights, but the Florida Constitution provides that you
4 must give those documents; are you aware of that?
5 A. No.
6 Q. You are now though.
7 A. I'm aware that you stated it.
8 Q. Would you like to see the Constitution?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Okay. Would you rely on Mr. Randolph if he
11 told you? I mean, I could pull out the Constitution, I
12 brought it with me.
13 A. Would I? Yes.
14 MR. O'BOYLE: Would you be kind enough to
15 tell him that?
16 MR. RANDOLPH: I think he's answered your
17 question. He says that he's not familiar with
18 that portion of the Constitution. You're asking
19 him for a legal conclusion. You want to delve
20 into the legalities of it, you may.
21 By the way, we stipulate to the fact that
22 the Florida Constitution does address this
23 matter, but I can't speak for my client.
24 MR. O'BOYLE: Okay.
25 MR. RANDOLPH: We do not contest that it
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I June 17, 2013
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 54
1 does.
2 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 8 was marked for
3 identification.)
4 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
5 Q. Mr. Thrasher, I'm going to give you a document
6 which is marked, "Plaintiff's Exhibit 8," and this is
7 Florida Constitution, Article I, Section 24, and I would
8 like for you to read it.
9 A. (The witness complied.)
10 Q. You now see that the public's right to public
11 records is a right given pursuant to not necessarily a
12 statute or a common law right, but under the Constitution
13 it's a Constitutional right.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Do you see that?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Okay. Now, that ratchets things up a bit,
18 does it not? The right to cross the street is one thing,
19 a Constitutional right is a pretty serious thing.
20 MR. RANDOLPH: Object to the form of the
21 question.
22 A. I think they're all serious.
23 Q. Pardon?
24 A. I think they're all serious.
25 Q. So you would take a normal, every day law like
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1 painting your house a different color and compare that to
2 a Constitutional right; you would see them all as the
3 same?
4 A. I don't know. I don't think so.
5 Q. Okay. Well, tell me how you would see them.
6 A. Constitutional right to - would be a
7 higher power.
8 Q. Or higher obligation, one to take more
9 seriously, one that should be given - I can't think of
10 the word, but should be taken more seriously?
11 MR. RANDOLPH: Object to the form.
12 A. I think they all are serious as it relates
13 to --
14 Q. Now, when you say, "they all" --
15 A. Anything that directs the Town or myself
16 is something that we're obligated to.
17 Q. So that group would be put in the same corral
18 as the Constitutional right?
19 A. I have no comment. I've answered your
20 question.
21 Q. I don't think you have.
22 A. I have no comment.
23 MR. RANDOLPH: I think you're arguing with
24 the witness. I think the witness has indicated
25 that he takes all laws related to the Town
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
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seriously and he also has indicated, and he used
his words, it's a higher power when it's dealing
with the Constitution. I don't see the need to
continue to explore. I think he's answered your
question.
MR. O'BOYLE: I don't think he has. You
did very well to articulate I think what he did
say, but I think what I've heard so far is a
Constitutional right and a municipal ordinance
are treated six of one, half a dozen to the
other.
MR. RANDOLPH: That's not the answer that
you got.
MR. O'BOYLE: Okay.
MR. RANDOLPH: He's indicated that the
Constitutional right is a higher power.
MR. O'BOYLE: Whatever that means.
MR. RANDOLPH: Whatever that means and you
can explore what that means --
MR. O'BOYLE: Okay.
MR. RANDOLPH: -- legitimately, but he
indicated to you he's answered your question --
MR. O'BOYLE: That's fine.
MR. RANDOLPH: -- to the best of his
ability.
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O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 57
1
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
2
Q.
What is a higher power before the Good
Lord -
3
besides
the Good Lord?
4
A.
Nothing.
5
Q.
Nothing?
6
A.
(Witness shakes head.)
7
Q.
So when you said the Constitution was a
higher
8
power,
you're saying the Constitution is nothing.
9
A.
I didn't say that.
10
Q.
What did you say?
11
A.
You referred to the Good Lord --
12
Q.
No, I didn't.
13
A.
-- so my belief.
14
Q.
I said, "what is except," that's what I
said.
15
A.
Then nothing. The Constitution, things
of
16
that --
17
Q.
I'm not hearing you, I'm sorry.
18
A.
Excluding the Good Lord, I believe the
19
Constitutions are a higher power.
20
Q.
A higher power meaning?
21
A.
Prevail.
22
Q.
Pardon?
23
A.
Prevail.
24
MR. RANDOLPH: I think the question is:
A
25
higher power compared to what?
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
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58
MR. O'BOYLE: Very good, Mr. Randolph.
Thank you for helping me.
A. A higher power compared to what? Oh,
local law, county law, as an example.
Q. Okay. So, in other words, it's a more
important law, the Constitution, it's a - would that be a
fair --
A. I -- I am not able to say. I would think
so, but I don't know for sure what the legal
ramifications of that or those are.
Q. Well, do you think it's less? In other words,
in the scheme of laws, is the constitutional law --
A. I would say, no.
Q. -- in the State of Florida, would that be the
highest laws that are in the State of Florida?
A. I would answer, yes.
Q. You would answer, yes. I appreciate it.
The request that was made on April 15th before
you were sued, your recollection is no one came to see
you.
A. No, that's not -- I hope I didn't say
that.
Q. You sure did.
A. In regards to that, a section of that or a
portion of that, I believe Ms. Taylor, Rita Taylor,
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1 asked my opinion on whether or not a portion of the
2 e-mail was responsive or required if we're talking
3 about the same e-mail - I don't know, but I think so.
4
Q.
Well --
5
A.
Can you show me that e-mail --
6
Q.
-- I can show you --
7
A.
-- that you're referring to --
8
Q.
I can show you --
9
A.
-- perhaps going to refer to?
10
Q.
Well, I wasn't referring to any e-mail --
11
A.
But perhaps --
12
Q.
-- I will now.
13
A.
-- what you will refer to.
14
(Plaintiff's Exhibit 9 was marked for
15
identification.)
16 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
17 Q. Mr. Thrasher, I am now showing you what is
18 Plaintiff's Exhibit 9, which is the sole responsive
19 document provided in connection with Request No. 332 in
20 which I was the requestor and which read: "Please
21 provide a copy of any reports or writings authored by
22 Martin Minor or William Thrasher in regard to Application
23 No. 1 on the agenda of the Town Commission meeting dated
24 April 12, 2012 for the premises known as 3211 North Ocean
25 Boulevard, Gulf Stream, Florida."
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O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 60
1 MR. RANDOLPH: And I object to the form of
2 the question --
3 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
4 Q. You may answer.
5 MR. RANDOLPH: -- based upon you're saying
6 that's the sole responsive document provided.
7 Go ahead, you may answer.
8 THE WITNESS: Okay.
9 MR. RANDOLPH: He's showing you that. And
10 you're asking what, has he seen that, Mr.
11 O'Boyle?
12 MR. O'BOYLE: Okay.
13 A. I have seen this.
14 Q. Where --
15 A. I have seen this.
16 Q. Where have you seen it?
17 A. Somewhere in the course of my daily
18 activities. I don't know specifically when or where.
19 Q. Okay. Was it within the last seven days?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And that was the very first time you've seen
22 it?
23 A. No, no.
24 Q. Okay. Was it within the first seven days
25 after April 15th?
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O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
A. I would say, yes.
June 17, 2013
61
Q. Okay.
A. I don't know when.
Q. And under what circumstances did you see it?
A. The town clerk showed me this e-mail and
asked my opinion whether the bottom portion of the
e-mail was responsive to Public Records Request 332.
Q. And --
A. I said, "No."
Q. And tell me why you said, "No."
A. The content at the bottom of that page was
not related to 3211 North Ocean.
Q. What was it related to?
A. I don't know. If I could see it, I might
have a better idea.
Q. Okay. So --
A. But I do remember having the conversation.
Q. So let's do this: We have an e-mail which is
Plaintiff's Exhibit --
A. Nine.
Q. What is it?
A. Nine.
Q. -- 9, and that e-mail has clearly been
doctored.
25 1 MR. RANDOLPH: Object to the form.
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O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 62
1 A. That's your word, not mine.
2 MR. RANDOLPH: Excuse me, object to the
3 form.
4 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
5 Q. Well, early on I asked you your definition of
6 "doctored" and I think that fits squarely and you're
7 right, that is my word.
8 MR. RANDOLPH: And I object to the form.
9 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
10 Q. If there's an e-mail on the bottom of this,
11 which, again, has been removed, this is on Exhibit 9,
12 Plaintiff's Exhibit 9, which has been removed and you say
13 it's been removed because it was not responsive --
14 A. To --
15 Q. Now --
16 A. -- Public Records Request 332.
17 Q. To Public Records Request 332. Wasn't it
18 innocuous?
19 A. I don't remember.
20 Q. Okay.
21 A. She asked my opinion, I gave it.
22 Q. Okay. Well, if you wouldn't have removed it,
23 it seems to me you would have saved an abundance of time,
24 and it's not as if it was talking about the Manhattan
25 Project.
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O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 63
1 MR. RANDOLPH: Have you finished your
2 question?
3 MR. O'BOYLE: Yes.
4 MR. RANDOLPH: Object to the form.
5 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
6 Q. You may answer.
7 A. I didn't hear a question in all that, but
8 maybe you could restate --
9 Q. Sure.
10 A. -- a question.
11 Q. Why would you remove something that is
12 meaningless and have it cost money and take time when you
13 can leave it there and it's meaningless and save money
14 and save time?
15 A. All of those thought and thought processes
16 did not go through my mind. We were trying to be
17 responsive to Public Request 332 and we believed that
18 that bottom portion was not, therefore, we were
19 responsive in that which we gave you.
20 Q. So you made the unilateral decision?
21 A. It was one that Rita and I made together.
22 She had a sense that it was not and asked my opinion
23 and we conferred together on that, yes.
24 Q. Okay. And where did this document come from,
25 1by the way?
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1
A.
I don't know the answer to that.
2
Q.
Well, did it come from Rita's desk?
3
A.
I think it's from Marty to -- It's from
4
Marty to me and it ended up on Rita's desk, yes.
5
Q.
How did it end up on Rita's desk?
6
A.
I would suspect that I printed it and gave
7
it to her.
8
Q.
Why did you print it and give it to her?
9
A.
Don't know.
10
Q.
Well, how many other documents did you print
11
that morning
or that afternoon or at lunch?
12
A.
I don't have -- I don't know.
13
Q.
Was there a lot?
14
A.
I have no idea. I don't know.
15
Q.
You don't know whether there was one, whether
16
there was
five, whether there was ten, whether there was
17
fifty?
18
A.
No, I --
19
Q.
You don't remember anything.
20
A.
I do not.
21
Q.
Are you on any type of medication that might
22
affect your memory?
23
A.
Do I have to answer that question? No.
24
Q.
No?
25
A.
I'm not, no.
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1
MR.
RANDOLPH:
Excuse me, off the record
2
or it can
be on the
record if you want, this
3
might be an appropriate time to take a lunch
4
break. I
know that
it's 12:30, we've been going
5
a couple hours, and
I think -- Mr. Thrasher, do
6
you break
for lunch
normally?
7
THE
WITNESS:
I would like to eat a quick
8
sandwich.
9
MR.
O'BOYLE:
Okay.
10
(Lunch break.)
11
BY MR. O'BOYLE:
12 Q. Mr. Thrasher, we're back on the record, it's
13 1:25 p.m. I wanted to ask you some questions, if I may,
14 about Mr. Minor; what is his exact role in the Town of
15 Gulf Stream?
16 A. Consultant.
17 Q. And can you give me the broad side of that
18 definition and the narrow side of that definition?
19 A. He is a consultant for the Town in related
20 to a variety of activities such as Comp Plan
21 (Amendments
22 Q. Wait one second. You said "Comp"?
23 A. Comp, Comprehensive Plan Amendments.
24 Q. Oh, I see. Yes.
25 A. -- dealing with the school concurrency
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
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development of the website trying to develop a
website that was consistent with - the perhaps the
character and quality of life in Gulf Stream. He's
just used in a wide range of activities as I might
ask him or the Commission might ask him.
Q. This may not be the proper term, but who is
his boss? In other words, I can't call Mr. Minor up and
ask him to do something for the Town and bill the Town, I
don't have that authority, I assume the fellow over at
Public Works doesn't; is it you, the mayor? Who is it
and pursuant to what?
A. Well, I think that I can direct him on
be the full body of the Commission.
Q. And the full body of the Commission, when have
engage Mr. Minor and when you have a question about the
Code and so on and so forth, but when would the
Commission engage Mr. Minor?
A. In regards to perhaps Code Amendments,
asking for him to obtain background information for
el
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O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
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67
1 them. I believe he's to be directed in regards to
2 the Comp Plan. The Town has -- The Town Commission
3 has directed him in providing a annexation study
4 report, things of that nature.
5 Q. And when the Town Commission does that, how --
6 I've been to I think every Town Commission meeting this
7 year, I don't know that for sure, but I've never heard
8 the Town Commission take a vote to give Mr. Minor any
9 type of authority for the items that you enumerated or
10 any other type of items.
11 Is what happens, the procedure is really what
12 I'm looking for, that as an example Mr. Minor would come
13 in, you would come in, the mayor, the commissioners or
14 whatever, sit in your office, somebody say, "Here's what
15 we need," and they would bless it?
16 A. No.
17 MR. RANDOLPH: Object to the form.
18 A. No.
19 Q. Then how's it happen?
20 A. In a public arena, public area, depending
21 on the circumstances that we're dealing with, the
22 challenges, they can direct them at that time.
23 Q. Okay. When was the last time that you can
24 remember the commissioners directing Mr. Minor?
25 A. I think it would be the - the Code
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1 Amendments, either that or the annexation.
2 Q. So that would be several years ago, correct?
3 A. Couple.
4 Q. Mr. Minor, in the scheme of a trustworthy
5 fellow, how would you rate him based upon your
6 experiences?
7 A. I -- I believe him to be trustworthy.
8 Q. Would you say highly trustworthy?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Okay. Honorable? Would you call him a very
11 honorable person?
12 A. I -- I would. I have no reason to call
13 him anything other than that.
14 Q. Okay. My instinct tells me that as applies to
15 the commissioners that I do not sit in favor with them,
16 would that be a generally correct statement?
17 MR. RANDOLPH: Object to the question.
18 It's not at all relevant and if you persist in
19 asking these kinds of questions we're just going
20 to go ahead and terminate this deposition.
21 You were on a roll. You were asking
22 questions that were pertinent to this case. If
23 you're going to ask those kinds of questions
24 we'll go ahead and terminate the deposition
25 right now and allow the Court to address it.
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1 A. I have no idea.
2 MR. RANDOLPH: For the record, if I might,
3 I'll note that Marrett Hanna is consulting with
4 Mr. O'Boyle, and I would just like to know your
5 role in this deposition today. Are you filing a
6 Notice of -- Are you representing Mr. O'Boyle?
7 Are you filing a Notice of Appearance on his
8 behalf? What is your role in this deposition?
9 MS. HANNA: First off, that's not
10 relevant. Second off, are you instructing the
11 witness not to answer the question?
12 MR. RANDOLPH: No, you haven't heard me
13 say that, have you? And I believe he gave an
14 answer to the question.
15 MS. HANNA: He never answered the
16 question. Are you instructing the witness not
17 to answer Mr. O'Boyle?
18 MR. RANDOLPH: You haven't heard that,
19 have you? I believe I'm entitled to know your
20 role in this deposition.
21 MS. HANNA: I appeared before and I
22 entered a limited appearance for the purposes of
23 the deposition.
24 MR. RANDOLPH: You appeared in Martin
25 Minor's.
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
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MS. HANNA: Excuse me, Mr. Randolph, are
you trying to delay this and cause disruption,
because that's what it appears to me?
MR. RANDOLPH: No, I'm certainly not.
MS. HANNA: It seems to me --
MR. RANDOLPH: I'm asking your role in
this.
MS. HANNA: -- you would like to call the
judge and get this matter --
MR. RANDOLPH: No, no.
MS. HANNA: -- before the judge.
MR. RANDOLPH: I'm not trying to delay
anything. I think that Mr. O'Boyle's question
was entirely inappropriate, it did not relate to
these proceedings.
MS. HANNA: You're allowed to state your
objection.
MR. RANDOLPH: Wait a minute. You can
just wait until I finish; will you please? I am
telling you that the questions he was asking
were not appropriate to this deposition and if
he continued with those kinds of questions we
will terminate this deposition, have the Court
address it, and then continue from that point.
The questions that Mr. O'Boyle was asking
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1 before our lunch break were pertinent to the
2 case that we're in, the questions he is asking
3 now are not, and I am advising as I advised at
4 the beginning of the deposition that if he
5 continued in this way we would continue this
6 deposition until the Court can have an
7 opportunity to address those questions.
8 I still would like an answer to my
9 question as to what your role is in this
10 deposition, and you're continuing to confer with
11 him. I need -- I would like to know whether
12 you're his attorney. Ms. Hanna, are you his
13 attorney? Are you representing Mr. O'Boyle?
14 MS. HANNA: Are you going to point your
15 finger and yell at me again, Mr. Randolph, like
16 you did, shout at me? Are you the judge,
17 because that's what you're behaving as?
18 MR. RANDOLPH: I'm not the judge. I --
19 MS. HANNA: You already --
20 MR. RANDOLPH: The furthest --
21 THE REPORTER: I cannot take both of you
22 at the same time.
23 MS. HANNA: I've never seen anyone behave
24 this way.
25 MR. RANDOLPH: Oh. How long have you been
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I June 17, 2013
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 72
practicing law?
MS. HANNA: Twenty years.
MR. RANDOLPH: Yeah?
MS. HANNA: Thank you.
MR. RANDOLPH: And what is your role with
Mr. O'Boyle?
MS. HANNA: I've already answered your
question. I'm not being deposed here, Mr.
Thrasher is being deposed.
MR. RANDOLPH: Are you admitted to the
Florida Bar?
MS. HANNA: Yes, I am.
MR. RANDOLPH: Are you representing Mr.
O'Boyle in this deposition? Are you refusing to
answer my question as to whether you're
representing him in this deposition?
MS. HANNA: I'm not here to answer your
questions.
MR. RANDOLPH: So you refuse to answer
that question. So the Court would have no idea
as to what your role is in this deposition by
reading this deposition.
BY MR. O'BOYLE:
Q. Mr. Thrasher, I have a question on the table.
If you would like the court reporter to read it back, she
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
will, I'm certain.
MR. RANDOLPH
A. I answered.
And he answered it.
I said, I don't know.
MR. RANDOLPH: He has no idea.
June 17, 2013
73
1
A. I have no idea.
MR. O'BOYLE: Will you read the question
back?
(The requested portion was read back.)
MR. RANDOLPH: Are you waiting for another
answer from him, Mr. O'Boyle?
A. That's my answer.
Q. The individual commissioners, have you met
with any of them outside of these chambers?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you tell me when and with whom?
A. I see the mayor sometimes every other day,
maybe every third day. I --
MR. RANDOLPH: Outside of these chambers?
THE WITNESS: Yeah.
MR. RANDOLPH: I mean, outside of town
21 hall?
22
23 hall.
24
25
THE WITNESS: No, not outside of town
MR. O'BOYLE: Mr. Randolph, you don't need
the coach the witness.
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O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 74
MR. RANDOLPH: I'm not coaching the
2 1 witness.
3
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MR. O'BOYLE: You certainly are.
MR. RANDOLPH: I'm making sure he
understands the question. Do you mean when you
refer --
MR. O'BOYLE: He'll ask if he doesn't
understand the question.
MR. RANDOLPH: Wait a minute. I'm about
to terminate the deposition.
MR. O'BOYLE: You're welcome to do so.
MR. RANDOLPH: Do you mean in regard to
the room that we're in, does he see them outside
this room or does he see them outside of town
hall?
MR. O'BOYLE: No, I said outside this
room.
A. Yeah, I see them outside this room.
Q. Okay. And do they drop by on the other side
of the building from time to time either individually or
in groups?
A. I don't recall any group appearance.
Individually from time to time.
Q. And the mayor you said - unless I may have
gotten it wrong, if I did, please correct me - the mayor
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I June 17, 2013
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 75
1 you said stops by about every other day?
2 A. Every other day, every third day. She has
3 no regular - no regular time, just drops in.
4 Q. And have you spoken to the mayor about some of
5 these public records requests and/or lawsuits?
6 A. I have spoken to her about the number of
7 public records requests, that they seem to be
8 numerous.
9 Q. Seem to be - I'm sorry?
10 A. Numerous, numerous.
11 Q. Numerous, I see.
12 A. And that whenever we receive a lawsuit or
13 a record of it, notice of, that we have received
14 them, that's about it.
15 Q. You tell her about it?
16 A. I tell her about the appearance of them in
17 town hall, yes.
18 Q. I see. Do you know what "redacted" or
19 "redact" means?
20 A. I -- I believe as relates to public
21 records it's the legitimate removal of information
22 from public records requests. I don't know, that's
23 my layman's.
24 Q. Okay. I may have asked you this before, I
25 don't think I did, but have you ever read Chapter 119?
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
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76
A.
I have
in the past, not recently.
Q.
And do
you recall the word "redacted" being
used therein?
A.
No.
Q.
Okay.
I'm now referring to Plaintiff's
Exhibit 5,
which
is the Verified Complaint to Enforce
Florida's
Public
Records Act and For Declaratory and
Monetary
Relief.
Do you know if there was an allegation
in there
that there
was part of a public record redacted?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And is
it an allegation or is it a fact?
A.
I do not
believe -- I believe it's an
allegation.
Q. Okay. And why do you believe it's an
allegation as opposed to a fact?
A. We didn't redact anything.
Q. I'm sorry, Mr. Thrasher?
A. We did not redact anything from our public
records responses.
Q. I see. Let me now show you, if I may --
(Plaintiff's Exhibit 10 was marked for
identification.)
BY MR. O'BOYLE:
Q. I'm going to show you what has been marked as
"Plaintiff's Exhibit 10."
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
June 17, 2013
77
Actually - one second - I'm going to show you
what has been marked as "Plaintiff's Exhibit 5" and I'm
going to ask that you look at the last page, which is an
e-mail from Martin Minor to you of August - I'm sorry,
March 27th at 3:29 p.m.
A. (The witness complied.)
Q. The word "redact" - nothing in there redacted?
A. No.
Q. Okay. What makes you say that?
A. I believe I've answered this before.
MR. RANDOLPH: Go ahead.
A. That the bottom portion of that e-mail was
not responsive to Public Records Request 332.
Q. And it disappeared, meaning it's no longer
there, correct?
A. The e-mail is still intact.
Q. But part of it's missing, correct?
A. No.
Q. No. Okay. I'm going to show you, Mr.
Thrasher, the same document that you just looked at and
I'm also going to show you the Plaintiff's Exhibit 10 and
ask if you see any difference at all.
A. Other than the size of the print I see --
Q. Pardon?
A. Other than the size of the print --
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June 17, 2013
78
1 Q. Okay.
2 A. -- there is a difference.
3 Q. what is that difference?
4 A. That Plaintiff's Exhibit 10 has additional
5 language from that of Plaintiff's Exhibit 5, and as
6 we stated, we blocked that off from copying as we did
7 not believe it was responsive to Public Records
8 Request 32.
9 Q. Now, when you say, "blocked that off," isn't
10 that another way of saying "redacted"?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Okay. Let's look at Plaintiff's Exhibit 10,
13 that's just the small e-mail.
14 A. Pardon me?
15 Q. I'm not seeing -- That's just the e-mail, 10?
16 How would you redact that if you wanted to get rid of the
17 bottom e-mail; what would you do?
18 A. See if it could legally be done.
19 Q. Pardon?
20 A. See if it could legally be done.
21 Q. Okay. And assuming it can be legally done?
22 A. I -- I would follow the instructions of
23 the attorney as to how that would be done. I -- I
24 have no idea how that would be done.
25 Q. Did you follow the instructions of the
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O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 79
1 attorney on Exhibit 5?
2 A. No.
3
Q.
Yes?
4
A.
No.
5
Q.
Oh. Now you've confused me and I apologize.
6
On Exhibit
10 to remove the bottom e-mail you followed
7
the instructions of the attorney, but on --
8
A.
To have it redacted.
9
Q.
Pardon?
10
A.
To have the lower portion of Exhibit 10
11
redacted I
would seek legal advice.
12
Q.
Okay. And your position is it was not
13
redacted.
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
Well, then what was it?
16
A.
It was covered up and not printed for
17
response to
Public Records Request 332.
18
Q.
Okay. So --
19
A.
It's still of record. I mean --
20
Q.
Just so I'm clear, it's a little bit on the
21
confusing
side, just so I'm clear, if there is a document
22
and you feel
a portion of it is not relevant to the
23
request and you remove that, that's not redacting it?
24
A.
I didn't -- we didn't remove it.
25
Q.
How did it get removed?
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80
1
A.
It was covered up.
2
Q.
Well, and then it was copied.
3
A.
It was --
4
Q.
And the net result was it was removed.
5
A.
No, it still exists.
6
Q.
Where is it?
7
A.
In e-mail form.
8
Q.
No, no, forget this e-mail. Let's talk
9
about --
10
A.
I told you this was covered up and not
11
copied.
12
Q.
Okay. So on -- I get them confused and please
13
-- On Exhibit
5 --
14
A.
Yeah.
15
Q.
-- the last page of the Complaint --
16
A.
Right.
17
Q.
-- the second e-mail, meaning the bottom
18
e-mail which is shown on Exhibit 10, is not on Exhibit 5,
19
correct?
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
Okay. And the reason it's not on Exhibit 5 is
22
you or someone
else with the Town put something on there
23
to cover
up that e-mail, then copied it, and then turned
24
it over
to the requestor.
25
A.
Covered up that portion --
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O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 81
1 Q. That portion.
2 A. -- of the e-mail we felt was not
3 responsive.
4 Q. Okay. And so that's the difference, you
5 covered it up because you felt it wasn't responsive.
6 Now, did you tell the requestor that, "Here is the
7 responsive document and, by the way, we covered up the
8 lower half 'cause we didn't think it was responsive"?
9 A. I did not.
10 Q. Do you know if anyone else did?
11 A. I do not.
12 Q. Okay. Did you speak to anyone perhaps with
13 more familiarity than you have or perhaps with the same
14 familiarity you have and ask them whether or not they
15 thought that was the appropriate thing for you to do?
16 A. As I said earlier, the public records -
17 the custodian of public records and myself had a
18 conversation about whether or not that was
19 responsive.
20 Q. Right. I understand that, but --
21 A. Did I have any other conversations with
22 anybody else?
23 Q. Right.
24 A. No.
25 Q. Okay. So it was just you and Rita who made
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I June 17, 2013
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 82
You didn't speak to your counsel?
Q. You didn't speak to your mayor?
A. No.
Q. You didn't speak to any of the commissioners?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Did you speak to Marty Minor?
A. No.
Q. Okay. If you spoke to Marty Minor, what do
you think he would have said?
A. I -- I have no idea.
Q. Okay. How about if I told you I asked him and
he said it was responsive?
A. I -- I believe -- You asked -- Say again.
Q. I said, how about if I tell you that I asked
Marty Minor about it and he said that that which you
removed or redacted, whatever the word is, was a
responsive document?
A. Oh --
MR. RANDOLPH: Objection to form.
A. -- I have no comment. I don't know what
to say about it.
Q. Would you say that Marty Minor was wrong?
MR. RANDOLPH: Objection.
A. I would not make a statement like that.
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83
1
Q.
Okay. Would you say he was right?
2
A.
I would not make a statement like that.
3
Q.
Okay. Just give me one second, please.
4
Now, you do admit that the requestor in this
5
case, which would be me, that you did not alert me that
6
the copies
provided had been redacted?
7
A.
We did not redact and we did alert you
8
that we have your public records request ready for
9
pickup.
10
Q.
When did you make that?
11
A.
I have no idea.
12
Q.
How do you know you did it?
13
A.
I am positive that Rita did.
14
Q.
And that would have been before April --
15
A.
I don't know the time sequence.
16
Q.
Well, it would have had to have been before
17
the filing
of suit.
18
So what you're saying is you don't agree that
19
they were redacted or that was redacted.
20
A.
Correct.
21
(Plaintiff's Exhibit 6 was marked for
22
identification.)
23 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
24 Q. Mr. Thrasher, this is a document filed by Mr.
25 John C. Randolph on the 14th day of May, 2013, and it's
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1 Plaintiff's Exhibit 6. I am also going to show you again
2 Plaintiff's Exhibit 5 and I'm going to ask you to kindly
3 take a look at that. Mr. Thrasher, may I have your
4 attention?
5 A. Certainly.
6 Q. I want you to look at Paragraph 28, and would
7 you read it into the record, please? These are the
8 allegations from the Complaint?
9 A. Number 28?
10 Q. Yes.
11 A. "The custodian did not inform Plaintiff
12 that any of the copies provided had been redacted."
13 Q. Okay. Now would you read Paragraph 28 of
14 Plaintiff's Exhibit 6, I believe, which is the document
15 that I just gave you that was prepared by Mr. Randolph?
16 And is that Plaintiff's Exhibit 6?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Okay. I just wanted to make sure.
19 MR. RANDOLPH: What paragraph?
20 MR. O'BOYLE: Twenty-eight.
21 MR. RANDOLPH: Okay.
22 A. "Defendant admits the allegation in
23 Paragraph 28."
24 Q. What do you think of that?
25 A. I have no thoughts about it.
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1 Q. Well, your attorney speaks for you.
2 A. True.
3 Q. And your attorney says it was redacted.
4 MR. RANDOLPH: Excuse me. Object to the
5 form. That does not properly characterize the
6 answer that was made by me to the Complaint. It
7 states that we did not inform you that it had
8 been redacted.
9 MR. O'BOYLE: That's right, Mr. Randolph,
10 and no reason to inform me it hasn't been
11 redacted unless it's been redacted --
12 MR. RANDOLPH: The answer stands for
13 itself.
14 MR. O'BOYLE: -- and I'm not going to
15 debate it with you.
16 MR. RANDOLPH: Good.
17 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 7 was marked for
18 identification.)
19 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
20 Q. Mr. Thrasher, I'm going to show you a
21 document, which is Thrasher 7, and it's called, "Motion
22 to Strike Affirmative Defenses," and I'm going to ask you
23 to take a look at that, please.
24 A. You want me to look at the entire
25 Idocument?
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I June 17, 2013
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 86
Q. Pardon?
A. Do you want me to look at the entire
document?
Q. I would say, yes. I think you can skim
through it, but I think the most important part is the
responses to the affirmative defenses; I think there's
three of them at the very end.
A. Okay.
Q. Have you read through them?
A. I've read through them.
Q. Okay.
A. I don't know that I understand them.
Q. All right. Fair enough. May I have that and
may I also have Exhibit 6, please?
A. (The witness complied.)
Q. Now, Mr. Thrasher, in connection with this
Records Request 332, I am the requestor, you are aware of
that?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know how many records requests that I
am the requestor of?
A. Not definitively, no.
Q. Undefinitively?
A. You -- It seems like, I'm going to just
guess here, 150 to 200.
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1 Q. Okay. And you base that off of what?
2 A. My lack of understanding as it relates to
3 these different LLCs that have come through our -
4 come through to our public records request, I - I
5 don't know who they are. They seem to have the same
6 format as yours specifically, but whether they're the
7 same, I have no idea.
8 Q. Okay. You said 150 to 200?
9 A. Guessing.
10 Q. Okay. And of the requests that I have made,
11 Martin O'Boyle, do you have any idea how much time has
12 been spent fulfilling those requests?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Okay. The request that we're here for today,
15 Request No. 332, do you know how much time was spent in
16 connection with that request?
17 A. I believe that that request is part and
18 parcel of several other requests that you have made
19 and, cumulatively, I have no idea.
20 Q. Well, thank you for answering me, but now
21 would you answer the question I asked?
22 A. I have no idea.
23 MR. O'BOYLE: Would you read the question
24 back? I just want to make sure he understood
25 it.
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
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(The requested portion was read back.)
A. I know that it's part and parcel of a
cumulative public records request and that that
amount of time for the cumulative request is part of
- is included in the - 332 is included in the
cumulative request and how much time all of that
took, I do not know.
Q. Thank you. But, again, that's not the
question I asked. We're asking about Request No. 332.
A. I don't know.
Q. You don't know how much time was spent?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever ask the custodian of records?
A. No.
Q. Okay. If I told you it was less than five
minutes, would that surprise you?
A. I have no comment.
Q. Well, give me a comment, please.
MR. RANDOLPH: His comment is -- The
question was asked and answered --
MR. O'BOYLE: Well --
MR. RANDOLPH: -- two or three times.
MR. O'BOYLE: -- I don't think that's
true. I don't think that's true.
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1 Q. Are you familiar with the billing for the time
2 or how the billing for time is made by the custodian of
3 records?
4 A. Not specifically, no.
5 Q. How about unspecifically?
6 A. That we are charging for excessive time
7 that we are trying to respond as quickly as possible
8 in a normal course of business.
9 Q. I asked how much?
10 A. I don't know.
11 Q. So you don't know how much the custodian is
12 billing for the time?
13 A. No --
14 Q. Okay.
15 A. -- not specifically.
16 Q. That's fair enough.
17 Is the custodian billing for time?
18 A. Yes.
19 MR. O'BOYLE: Okay. I have in my hand a
20 group of exhibits from the Minor deposition, and
21 they are Exhibits 1 through 9, but they include
22 8A through 8L.
23 Now, do you need to re -mark these, young
24 lady, or is that okay to stay that way?
25 THE REPORTER: That's fine.
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1 MR. O'BOYLE: Is that all right with you,
2 Skip?
3 MR. RANDOLPH: Yes.
4 (Minor's Exhibits 1 to 9 were identified
5 for the record.)
6 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
7 Q. I'm going to ask you to compare this pile to
8 your pile and tell me if you see anything at all that's
9 different besides maybe the font, or even the font I want
10 to you tell me about.
11 A. I -- I have no idea what you're talking
12 about.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. I'm sorry.
15 Q. That's okay. You'll take that pile --
16 A. Take this pile.
17 Q. -- and you'll take that pile --
18 A. Take this pile.
19 Q. -- and you'll compare the two piles, they're
20 not necessarily in order, you'll put them in order and
21 you'll tell me if they're identically the same, if none
22 of them are the same, if half of them are the same, but
23 you'll compare it. We can do it that way or I could go
24 ahead and we can go page by page by page, it's your
25 choice.
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1
A. I don't know what you want me to compare.
2
MR.
RANDOLPH: I think what he wants you
3
to do is
compare the two piles and advise the
4
manner in
which they are either consistent with
5
each other
or inconsistent. For instance, is
6
there something
in your pile that was not
7
provided
in Mr. Minor's pile --
8
MR.
O'BOYLE: Or vice versa.
9
MR.
RANDOLPH: -- or vice versa?
10
Now,
that might take you some time and if
11
you wish
to take some time to do that I suggest
12
we take a
break and allowed you to do that.
13
THE
WITNESS: Okay.
14
MR.
RANDOLPH: You can do that right here.
15
THE
WITNESS: Well, if we're going to take
16
a break,
I'm going to take a break to use the
17
restroom
--
18
MR.
RANDOLPH: Well, yes, you're certainly
19
entitled
to do that.
20
THE
WITNESS: -- and come back and do
21
this.
22
MR.
RANDOLPH: But the purpose of taking
23
the break
is to take the time to do that.
24
THE
WITNESS: Yes, understood.
25
MR.
RANDOLPH: Go ahead.
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O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 92
1 (Short break.)
2 A. I am not sure --
3 MR. RANDOLPH: If there's questions, Mr.
4 Thrasher, we need to put them on the record.
5 A. Okay. I am not sure -- I thought what I
6 provided for the record were Plaintiff's Exhibit 3
7 and 3A and B.
8 Q. And C and D and --
9 A. Okay.
10 Q. -- right down the line.
11 A. Well, I've got 4 and 5 here.
12 Q. Okay. They shouldn't be in what you're
13 looking at now.
14 A. So, again, 3A, B, C, and D.
15 Q. All the way through the 3s.
16 A. Okay. So I have a 9 --
17 Q. Okay.
18 A. -- and a 10. I believe I'm missing one
19 document. Can I ask a question?
20 MR. RANDOLPH: You better get on the
21 record.
22 A. I'm missing one document that I provided
23 here today, it's my staff report.
24 MR. RANDOLPH: The ARPB report?
25 THE WITNESS: Yes. This one here was
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1 provided by Marty and I know I provided it here,
2 but I can't tell you --
3 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
4 Q. I remember, Mr. Thrasher, that we marked two
5 documents early on and I think they were 3A and 3B.
6 A. Correct.
7 Q. And I think it may have been one of those two.
8 MR. RANDOLPH: B.
9 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
10 Q. So if you can find 3A and 3B --
11 MS. HANNA: 3B.
12 A. Either one, if I can find -- Here's 3A. I
13 cannot find 3B.
14 Q. You can't find 3B? Was it legal size or was
15 it --
16 A. It would be legal size, yes, but bigger
17 print than this.
18 Q. Well, let's just look here.
19 MR. O'BOYLE: All the ones from today are
20 in yellow, right?
21 THE REPORTER: Yes.
22 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
23 Q. Can I see that pile, Mr. Thrasher?
24 A. This pile?
25 Q. Yes.
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A. It's two pages by themselves, one upside
Q. Yeah, I remember that one was upside down and
-- Okay. Well, I think we'll have to just for the moment
do without it or else drop the lawsuit, and I think we'll
just do without it for now.
A. This is what I --
MR. RANDOLPH: It's got to be on the table
somewhere, but I don't know where it is.
A. These items --
Q. Okay.
A. -- compare, this is Marty Minor's that
don't compare, I believe these are mine that do not
compare.
Q. Okay. So let's go through them, if we can.
I'm going to stand up.
A. Okay. Yeah, I really don't want to do
that again.
Q. Exhibit 8A of the Minor deposition, that's
really a singular document and not applicable to Mr.
Thrasher, it's just a cover sheet.
We next go to No. 7 of the Minor deposition.
Can you tell me what you brought, Mr. Thrasher, that
would match up with that?
A. I couldn't find anything.
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1 Q. Okay. So you do not have anything in
2 connection with 7; is that correct?
3 A. No, I -- If I do, I can't find it. These
4 are the ones I haven't matched up --
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. -- and I've provided today with the
7 exception of 3B.
8 Q. Okay. So No. 7 of Minor, Thrasher does not
9 have. So after we look at them, can we put them over on
10 that table.
11 Okay. Next is Plaintiff's 6, this was from
12 the Minor deposition, and this is really not relevant in
13 the scheme of what we're doing right now. This is one of
14 Mr. Randolph's many "I do," "I don't do," and "I do"
15 letters, so we'll just put that one aside unless anybody
16 objects.
17 MR. RANDOLPH: Can I see it?
18 MR. O'BOYLE: This is the one you were
19 representing Marty Minor.
20 MR. RANDOLPH: Okay.
21 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
22 Q. Okay. Next is Item No. 5 of the Minor
23 deposition. What do we have, Mr. Thrasher, that would
24 match up to that?
25 A. I couldn't find anything.
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Q. Nothing?
A. Yeah.
Q. That's a nothing?
A. Yeah, I don't have anything unless it's in
there.
Q. The next one I see is No. 3. I don't see No.
4, but I guess we'll get to it in the pile. No. 3 is the
request that was made and that came from Mr. --
A. Minor.
Q. -- Minor's file.
MR. RANDOLPH: Excuse me, when you say,
"request that was made," do you mean the
subpoena?
MR. O'BOYLE: No, the records request.
MR. RANDOLPH: Okay.
MR. O'BOYLE: So I'm going to ask you,
young lady, to put that over there.
BY MR. O'BOYLE:
Q. Okay. The next document is the Subpoena Duces
Tecum for a Mr. Thrasher, at least I think it's for Mr.
Thrasher - no, it's for Mr. Minor, I'm sorry, and you
have the sister to this, do you, Mr. Thrasher?
A. I don't have the sister to that, no.
Q. Well, okay, I gave it to you earlier, but I
don't think it's relevant to what we're doing today.
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1 What other documents --
2 A. Actually, let me just say that this and 3B
3 and this are unique when comparing Marty and me.
4 Q. Does that mean, all the others are the same?
5 A. Yeah, and -- Well, actually, I believe
6 that this document - 'cause some of the e-mails were
7 in - all of this goes here.
8 Q. Okay.
9 MR. O'BOYLE: Can I see No. 5 and 7 again,
10 please?
11 A. But I still don't have 3B.
12 Q. Okay. So let's go now to the next one; is
13 that 7 or 9?
14 A. This is 9.
15 Q. Right, No. 9, and that is the Architectural -
16 AR - whatever it's called, AR --
17 A. PB.
18 Q. -- PB Report. And I'm just going to put here
19 "can't find Bill's right now."
20 A. Okay.
21 Q. Okay? I mean, we all know because it was
22 upside down, the one page.
23 Okay. This one is 8L, which I believe it
24 probably came off of somebody else, I'm guessing?
25 A. Correct.
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1
Q.
Do you have any idea what it came off of, Mr.
2
Thrasher,
because I thought I saw you had a document?
3
A.
This is as a result of asking for window
4
calculations
on the east elevation.
5
Q.
Right, but I thought I saw it attached to one
6
of these
documents.
7
A.
It is, it is.
8
Q.
Which one, may I ask?
9
A.
I think more than one; 3D.
10
Q.
So I'm just going to use this. I'm going to
11
say 8L is
a plan; 3D Thrasher, e-mail and plan; fair
12
enough?
13
A.
Uh-huh.
14
Q.
Okay? Next?
15
A.
So you're taking all - mine too and giving
16
them to
her?
17
Q.
The yellow ones are the easy ones. We can
18
tell which
ones are yellow.
19
A.
Okay.
20
Q.
So when we're done, get them off the table and
21
not get
them confused.
22
Next one is 8K.
23
A.
Okay.
24
Q.
And --
25
A.
3F.
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1 Q. So these two are what we're looking at. Are
2 my --
3 A. No.
4 Q. No?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. That one is in your left hand.
8 Q. Okay. So, I see. So 8K and I have 5 up here
9 and I thought I had 5 -- I think it's 7 and I don't know
10 if I took it from you already. Is there a yellow 7 over
11 there, Mr. Thrasher?
12 A. I think all I've got over here are 3s --
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. -- except for 3B.
15 Q. Okay. All right. So this here, and I'm
16 apologizing because I'm getting confused, this No. 5 is
17 the same of which one of these; is it this?
18 A. I don't think I had that one.
19 Q. Yeah, this was in Marty Minor.
20 A. This is Marty Minor's to compare. This
21 one has missing 8.
22 Q. No, these two don't compare, because here's a
23 number, five items, and here's five items.
24 A. You're right, you're right. I don't know
25 what that is.
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1
Q.
Okay. Well, one
question I have is --
2
A.
I know we had it.
3
Q.
-- this document
was produced by - I'm talking
4 about Plaintiff's Exhibit 5 --
5 A. Here it is. This is 4. Oh, no, 4 is this
6 one, my 3F.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. Five --
9 Q. Let me focus on 5 and we can pull 4 out next.
10 A. Okay.
11 Q. In No. 5, this is Plaintiff's Exhibit in
12 connection with the Minor deposition, do you agree that
13 that was redacted?
14 A. No.
15 Q. No. Why not?
16 A. It was covered up and because it was not
17 responsive to Public Records Request 332.
18 Q. Now, when Marty Minor did that, did he call
19 you up and say, "Hey, Records Request 332, I'd like to
20 take this bottom part off"? I mean, how'd it happen?
21 MR. RANDOLPH: Object to the form of the
22 question, doesn't comport with the evidence.
23 A. I had no conversations with Marty Minor in
24 that regard.
25 Q. Then how did it get removed? Did he do it
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1 just on his own?
2 A. No, I don't believe he did. Rita Taylor
3 did it.
4
Q.
But Rita Taylor didn't have this document.
5
A.
I -- I thought she did.
6
Q.
Well, I could be wrong.
7
A.
There's my 3B.
8
MR. RANDOLPH: Whose file was that in?
9
MR. O'BOYLE: The guy who found it.
10
A.
I don't -- I don't remember if she had it
11
or if she
didn't have it. I -- I just don't know the
12
answer to
it.
13
Q.
Right, but it's significant --
14
A.
But I know I --
15
Q.
-- because --
16
A.
-- had conversations --
17
Q.
You did?
18
A.
-- with her.
19
Q.
Conversations?
20
A.
Yeah, I told you that.
21
Q.
About this particular document or about the
22 l other one?
23
A.
About I
guess it's --
24
Q.
Did you
have this document, meaning
25
Plaintiff's
Exhibit
5 from the Minor deposition, in your
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1 pile?
2 A. No, I can't find it.
3 Q. You can't find it? Did you look?
4 A. Yeah, I did.
5 Q. Okay. Good.
6 A. I'll look again.
7 Q. I pulled out earlier today a copy of what I
8 called, "unredacted portion" of that e-mail that you said
9 was not responsive and, unfortunately, I can't find what
10 I did with it. Do you have it in one of these piles
12 A. Would that have a sticker on it like this?
13 Q. Actually, I think it's right here. Okay. So
14 Exhibit 5 and Exhibit 10 - Exhibit 5 Minor and Exhibit 10
15 Thrasher are the same; can we agree with that?
16 A. No.
17 Q. No? Okay. I'm sorry, without the - they're
18 the same except that 10 has a lower e-mail and some minor
19 changes from whatever was put over to hide it.
20 A. Correct.
21
Q. Okay.
22
MR. RANDOLPH:
23
MR. O'BOYLE:
24
MR. RANDOLPH:
25
MR. O'BOYLE:
ESQUIRE
Object to the form.
All right. I'm sorry?
Object to the form.
Oh, okay.
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A. We weren't trying to hide it. In fact, we
haven't been trying to hide anything.
Q. I'm certain about it.
A. Bad choice of answer on my part. We did
not try to hide it.
Q. Nobody ever does.
MR. O'BOYLE: So now we're going to give 5
and 10 to you.
BY MR. O'BOYLE:
Q. What's next?
A. I don't know.
Q. Four I think is once again the same, is it
not? Isn't that the same as 5?
A. Plaintiff's Exhibit 4 on Minor deposition
is the same as Plaintiff's Exhibit 10 --
Q. Right.
A. -- on Thrasher deposition.
Q. So 4 and 5 Minor equals 10 Thrasher.
A. Okay.
Q. Fair enough?
A. Yep.
Q. Okay. All right. Next we are 8J. What do we
have in your pile, 8J Minor?
A. I think this is my 3M, but I do believe it
is also repeated in other documents in the pile.
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1 Q. Yes, I think there's a lot of --
2 A. Duplication.
3 Q. -- a lot of that.
4 A. Uh-huh.
5 Q. But this particular document, the closest we
6 can come to from Marty Minor is what? And I say, "this
7 particular document," this is Thrasher 3M. What's the
8 closest we can come to?
9 A. I think it's Minor 8J.
10 Q. Well, let's see here. He says, "Bill, we can
11 confirm," and you say, "Okay." So far the only
12 difference is, "okay," and this ends on -- Okay. So we
13 can pretty much say I think -- Now, how come, Mr.
14 Thrasher - this is 8J from Mr. Minor - the last e-mail is
15 an e-mail from you merely says, "okay," but why wouldn't
16 you produce that?
17 A. I might have. I don't see the word "okay"
18 in any of my responses.
19 Q. That e-mail came from your machine, computer?
20 A. Uh-huh. Yes.
21 Q. How did you search for it?
22 A. By date, just going through the O'Boyle
23 file trying to find it.
24 Q. As an example, did you search "Minor" or did
25 you search "3211"?
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
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105
A.
No,
I have -- When you
engaged in regards
to 3211,
I put
all of that into a
folder "O'Boyle."
Q.
And
why would that not
be in there?
A.
I'm
sure it is, I just
don't have it here
today.
Q. Do you remember I raised at the commission
meeting that the gate on 3211 was not in conformance
based upon, I forget all of the Code numbers, but the AlA
Code is 78 -foot, the definition of "improvements," the
definition of "structure," and the Commission decided to
- I don't know how to say it - either table it or they
got the applicant to say, "We won't deal with it today,
we'll deal with it just another day"; do you remember
that?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And then low and behold the very next
meeting Mr. Minor came up with a magic bullet, in my
opinion magic bullet, that being that the - I forget what
it's called - Overlay District --
A. Yes.
Q. -- permitted the sign - or not sign, permitted
the gate, do you remember that?
A. Not in that - those exact terms.
Q. Tell me how you remember.
A. That section of the Code involving what
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O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 106
1 you have just mentioned, the 78 feet, has a clause
2 that stated, "unless otherwise provided in this
3 Code."
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. And that otherwise provided for is found
6 in the Single Family Section, Section 70.
7 Q. Right.
B A. And I don't know the specific sections of
9 the Code, but it does speak about gates and piers and
10 walls to be located on the - on the property - inside
11 the property line.
12 Q. Yes. And I'm looking now at Article VII,
13 North Ocean Overlay District, and what it talks about
14 here is for the area within the Town beginning at Sea
15 Road on the north -- That's the road we're on here,
16 correct?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. -- and extending to Pelican Lane on the south,
19 extending 50-foot east and west from east and west
20 boundaries of the right-of-way of AlA, so that's where
21 the Overlay District is.
22 Then there's the other provision, which I
23 don't know if I can find it quick enough, but it talks
24 about you have to be 78 feet. Do you know the provision
25 off the top of your head?
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O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 107
1 A. I'm going to guess 66.466.
2 Q. 66.431.
3 A. 431.
4 Q. 431; 78 feet.
5 As Mr. Randolph knows and as you know and as
6 the Commission knows, it is my belief that that did not
7 meet the requirements of the Code at all.
8 Did you ever speak to or did the commissioners
9 ever speak to Mr. -- In other words, there was a
10 reversal. In other words, I would think the Overlay
11 District would have come up when it was going through the
12 approval process, but everybody sort of looked
13 dumbfounded, then the next meeting Mr. Minor got up and
14 said it's the Overlay District that permits it. Did you
15 have any type of correspondence, communications, phone
16 calls, discussions with Mr. Minor regarding that?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Nothing?
19 A. I had an e-mail correspondence with him
20 which I suggested that we look at Section 66.431 in
21 the future as it relates to potential Code Amendments
22 or evaluation and he agreed and we will look at it,
23 but to further relate I - because Section 66.431
24 refers you or can refer you to the Design Manual,
25 Section 70, it re - it leaves all other zoning open
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
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June 17, 2013
108
for suspect or at least review.
By that I mean the recreational, the clubs
- club, and the multifamily, and - but I think I
responded to you in the very first meeting before it
was deferred that I felt that the - there was no
variance and that this application met the Code.
Q. The Town historically, haven't they, taken the
position that the stricter application is what's used?
MR. RANDOLPH: Excuse me, I object to the
question as it's totally irrelevant. When you
were asking these questions in regard to
communications in regard to I thought it was
relevant. I don't think it's relevant what this
Town's historic interpretation of that has been.
We've been going now from 10:30 this
morning, we did take about a 45 minute break for
lunch, it's now 3:15, and if you'll insist on
continuing with these kinds of irrelevant
questions we'll terminate the deposition.
BY MR. O'BOYLE:
Q. You may answer.
A. I'm not sure that I would make such a
claim outside of Mr. Randolph's direction.
Q. I'm so sorry. I'm not hearing you with the
equipment outside.
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O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
June 17, 2013
109
1 A. I would not make such a statement without
2 referring to Mr. Randolph.
3 Q. I see. Mr. Minor --
4 A. Uh-huh.
5 Q. -- would he make such a statement?
6 A. He could.
7 Q. Did he?
8 A. I believe he did.
9 Q. So you guys talked about it, communicated
10 about it? What did you do?
11 A. I thought that was in an e-mail, I think
12 you have it, and that was it. I put it on my list of
13 items to be reviewed for the next Code Amendment for
14 the Commission to determine only as it relates to
15 recreational and multifamily, whether or not that
16 specific section of the Code referring to 78 -foot is
17 applicable, still relevant, and that's their
18 decision.
19 Q. And I read Mr. Minor's e-mail.
20 A. Okay.
21 Q. And as I read it, what I read was, "the answer
22 I gave is different than the right answer"; did you come
23 to that conclusion as well?
24 A. Momentarily I did, momentarily.
25 Q. And when did you stop coming to that
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I June 17, 2013
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 110
1 conclusion?
2 A. Shortly thereafter, but not in the public
3 meeting.
4 Q. So in the public meeting you thought that he
5 was wrong.
6 MR. RANDOLPH: Excuse me, I'm going to
7 interpose the same objection and say if you're
8 going to continue down this road of asking
9 questions irrelevant to this deposition that we
10 will terminate the deposition and I'm not going
11 to let it go on that much longer. If you want
12 to keep doing this, go ahead.
13 You've got a perfect opportunity here
14 between now and 5:00 to complete this deposition
15 by asking questions which are relevant. I don't
16 consider this relevant. I'm not going to
17 instruct the witness not to answer, but if you
18 continue down this road we will terminate the
19 deposition and we'll ask the Court to intervene.
20 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
21 Q. You may answer.
22 A. I forgot the question.
23 (The requested portion was read back.)
24 A. Who was wrong?
25 Q. Mr. Minor.
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O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
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111
1 A. No, I didn't come to that conclusion. It
2 caused me to question myself.
3 Q. Did you prepare any type of memoranda or
4 e-mails or any type of documentation to the commissioners
5 or to Rita, who obviously provides you input and
6 assistance, and say, "Hey, we may have a problem here.
7 O'Boyle says it's this. Minor did some investigation and
8 what he's saying is O'Boyle might be right"? He may have
9 said just the opposite, but were there any communications
10 or was it kept a secret from the commissioners?
11 A. It was not kept a secret.
12 MR. RANDOLPH: Object to the form of the
13 question. You may answer it.
14 A. It wasn't kept a secret from the
15 Commission. I believe during this time, shortly
16 after that public hearing, I went on vacation. I
17 think Rita and I had some correspondence and I - I
18 believe I told her verbally that we need to review it
19 to make sure that we're in a good position.
20 Q. Okay. All right. What's next here?
21 A. I don't know.
22 Q. We have 8J --
23 A. Before we go to 5:00, may I ask for
24 another break? I apologize.
25 Q. No, we're not going to go to 5:00 because I'm
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112
1
getting buzzed about every 3 seconds --
2
A. I have to use the restroom.
3
Q. -- and I have to find a good place to
stop.
4
MR. RANDOLPH: If you have to use the
5
restroom, go to the restroom.
6
MS. HANNA: Mr. Thrasher has to go to
the
7
bathroom.
8
MR. O'BOYLE: Do you want to just stop
9
now? That's fine with me.
10
MR. RANDOLPH: We can keep going. He
just
11
needed -- He can take a few moments to go to
the
12
restroom, give him a few moments.
13
MR. O'BOYLE: I've got people waiting
for
14
me.
15
THE WITNESS: I am taking medication.
16
MR. O'BOYLE: You're going to go take
your
17
medication?
18
THE WITNESS: No, no, I've already taken
19
it.
20
(Short break.)
21
BY MR. O'BOYLE:
22
Q. I have 8J here, but I also have a comment on
23
my piece of paper that says it's almost like 3M.
This is
24
the one with the "okay."
25
A. Okay.
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
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June 17, 2013
113
Q. Okay? So we'll put this aside now?
A. Okay.
Q. So now we have BI and it looks relevant to me.
MR. RANDOLPH: That's Minor 8I?
BY MR. O'BOYLE:
Q. Minor 8I, so we need your BI, Bill.
MR. RANDOLPH: Let me see 8I for a second.
You can keep looking for 8I.
BY MR. O'BOYLE:
Q. Now, wait one second here. Can we pull 3M
back out because I think this is an identical match?
This is 3M and this is -- So here we didn't have the
"okay."
A. So this goes with it.
Q. That would be 3L instead of 3M, so that
will --
MR. RANDOLPH: So --
A. I don't think they're related actually.
Q. Well, they're all related, I think, in many
respects, but these are identical.
MR. RANDOLPH: So I guess the question
pending was whether or not in this stack that
Bill brought he could find one that was
identical to 8I.
MR. O'BOYLE: 8I now, right.
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June 17, 2013
114
1
MR. RANDOLPH:
And you went down a little
2
bit of a different
track, but can I ask what his
3
answer to your question
was? I think when you,
4
not interrupted, but
when you attempted to
5
clarify he found a
document that he thought
6
matched SI.
7
MR. O'BOYLE:
Here it is right here,
8
here's BI.
9
MR. RANDOLPH:
Excuse me, didn't you find
10
a document --
11
THE WITNESS:
Yeah, I did.
12
MR. RANDOLPH:
-- that you were looking
13
for?
14
THE WITNESS:
I did. I gave it to her.
15
Can you give
me those back, please?
16
THE REPORTER:
(Complied.)
17
A. This is 3L and 8I, they seem to be the
18 same to me.
19 Q. Okay. So let's just look at them for a
20 second.
21 A. And this is Marty's also.
22 Q. Well --
23 A. I don't know what's going on.
24 Q. Now I'm confused. I think you just -- This is
25 3L and we took this, this is the sister to 8J, so I don't
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
1 1know how it got back out. See the "okay"?
June 17, 2013
115
2
A.
Yeah. I don't -- I don't have an answer
3
for you.
I see the "okay" now, but I didn't then,
4
and that's
probably because it was given --
5
Q.
Do you want to go take your medication?
6
MR. RANDOLPH: Oh, come on. I object to
7
that.
8
A.
It's just blood pressure medicine. I'm
9
sorry, it's
a diuretic.
10
Q.
I have the same problem, so.
11
Okay. So now we are at 8I.
12
A.
8I is same as that one?
13
Q.
No, it's not. This looks like the same.
14
and 3M --
15
A.
Okay.
16
Q.
-- looks like the same?
17
A.
Okay. "We can confirm," "Bill, we can
18
confirm";
I would say, yes.
19
MR. RANDOLPH: But he also answered your
20
question that 8I and 3L were the same.
21
MR. O'BOYLE: No, they're not.
22
MR. RANDOLPH: Well, wait a second.
23
You're asking him the questions and he's
24
supposed to be giving the answer.
25
MR. O'BOYLE: But the documents show
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June 17, 2013
116
1 differently.
2 MR. RANDOLPH: Is that what you --
3 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
4 Q. Yeah, 3L and 8J are identical.
5 A. Can I see them again? There's 8J. Okay.
6 I agree 8J and 3L are the same, they've got "okay,"
7 "okay."
8 THE WITNESS: Back to you, Jennifer.
9 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
10 Q. Okay. Now, this one is not the same. Okay.
11 So this one and this one --
12 MR. O'BOYLE: This may be a good time to
13 break because I think we're all getting a little
14 -- This one has all of this and this has none of
15 that.
16 MR. RANDOLPH: How is that going to work
17 on the record, "this one has all of this and
18 this one has none of that"?
19 MR. O'BOYLE: That's why I said this may
20 be a good time to break and leave these out, but
21 that would be a great record, wouldn't it?
22 But just to clear things up, BI and 3M are
23 not the same. 8I is a Minor exhibit and the
24 last portion of 3M has an extensive e-mail that
25 is not part of 8I, and 3M of course is Thrasher.
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
June 17, 2013
117
(Short break.)
MR. O'BOYLE: Okay? Can we call it an
afternoon? I'm an hour -and -a -half late, but not
really an hour -and -a -half late. I'm late.
MR. RANDOLPH: All right. We're going to
resume with Mr. -- I think he was out of the
room.
MR. O'BOYLE: Yes. Mr. Thrasher, we are
planning on going with you at nine o'clock on
Wednesday morning unless you would rather see us
with Rita first.
THE WITNESS: May I just check my
calendar?
MR. O'BOYLE: Yes, go ahead.
THE WITNESS: 9:00 on Wednesday?
MR. O'BOYLE: Or if you want, you can come
over my house Tuesday night, have a couple
beers.
THE WITNESS: You don't drink.
MR. O'BOYLE: That's true, but I might
start drinking.
(The deposition adjourned at 3:30 p.m.)
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I June 17, 2013
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 118
1 CERTIFICATE OF OATH
2
3
4
5
6 STATE OF FLORIDA )
7 COUNTY OF PALM BEACH )
8
9 I, the undersigned authority, certify that
10 WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO personally appeared before
11 me and was duly sworn.
12
13
14 WITNESS my hand and official seal this
15 25th day of June, 2013.
L:[yy�.'�. J@WIFBIRd0.0FiEMZO
1 "•)i
16 . AiY C9dfMISSIONA EE 167u9A
exwREse=a7,2an
� &v�diRy %Cwdlmunro lAenry
17
18
A • �' �d✓terl�
19
20 JENNIFER D. DiLORENZO
Notary Public - State of Florida
21 My Commission No. EE 167698
Expires: March 7, 2016
22
23
24
25
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I June 17, 2013
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM 119
1 REPORTER'S DEPOSITION CERTIFICATE
2
STATE OF FLORIDA )
3
COUNTY OF PALM BEACH )
4
5 I, JENNIFER D. DiLORENZO, Shorthand
6 Reporter, certify that I was authorized to and did
7 stenographically report the deposition of WILLIAM H.
8 THRASHER, CGFO; that a review of the transcript was
9 requested; and that the transcript is a true and
10 complete record of my stenographic notes.
11 I further certify that I am not a
12 relative, employee, attorney, or counsel of any of the
13 parties, nor am I a relative or employee of any of the
14 parties' attorney or counsel connected with the
15 action, nor am I financially interested in the action.
16
17 Dated this 25th day of June, 2013.
18
19 �p
• �` GTd✓L2�7�
20 C
21
22 JENNIFER D. DiLORENZO,
Shorthand Reporter.
23
24
25
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WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO Vol. I
O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
DEPOSITION ERRATA SHEET
Our Assignment No. 380468
Case Caption:
Martin E. O'Boyle
vs.
Town of Gulf Stream
DECLARATION UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY
I declare under penalty of perjury
that I have read the entire transcript of
my Deposition taken in the captioned matter
or the same has been read to me, and
the same is true and accurate, save and
except for changes and/or corrections, if
any, as indicated by me on the DEPOSITION
ERRATA SHEET hereof, with the understanding
that I offer these changes as if still under
oath.
Signed on the day of
20
WILLIAM H. THRASHER, CGFO
ESQUIRE
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O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
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O'BOYLE vs. TOWN OF GULF STREAM
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