HomeMy Public PortalAboutExhibit MSD 85- Transcript of Public Hearing- June 21, 2023Page 1
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·5· ·Metropolitan Saint Louis Sewer District Public
· · · · · · · · · · · · ·Hearing
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·7· · ·2023 Stormwater and Wastewater Rate Change
·8· · · · · · · · ·City of Creve Coeur
· · · · · · · · 300 North New Ballas Road
·9· · · · · · · · Saint Louis, MO 63141
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Exhibit MSD 85
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·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · INDEX
·2· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·PAGE
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·4· ·Opening:· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·5
·5· ·Presentation:· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·11
· · · ·By Brian Hoelscher
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·7· ·Questions by the Public:· · · · · · · · · · · · · 29
·8· ·Adjournment· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·39
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·1· ·Metropolitan Saint Louis Sewer District Public
·2· · · · · · · · · · · ·Hearing
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11· · · · · ·MSD Public Hearing, produced, sworn and
12· · · examined on June 21, 2023 between the hours of
13· · · 07:00 p.m. and 09:00 p.m. at 300 North New
14· · · Ballas Road, in the county of St. Louis, State
15· · · of Missouri, before Colin Wallis, within and
16· · · for the State of Missouri.
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·1· · · · · · · · · A P P E A R A N C E S
·2· ·RATE COMMISSIONERS:
·3· ·Leonard Toenjes, Chair
· · ·Bill Clarke, Secretary
·4· ·Mark Perkins, Commission
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·6· ·MSD Staff:
·7· ·Brian Hoelscher, MSD CEO
· · ·Lance Lecomb
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10· ·REPORTED BY:
11· ·Mr. Colin Wallis
· · ·Lexitas Legal
12· ·711 North Eleventh Street
· · ·St. Louis, Missouri, 63101
13· ·(314) 644-2191
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·1· · · · · · · · · *· *· *· * *
·2· · · · ·(Proceedings commenced at 7:00 p.m.)
·3· · · · CHAIRMAN TOENJES:· Good evening.· I'm Len
·4· ·Toenjes, chair of the Metropolitan St. Louis
·5· ·District Commission.· I will be presiding over
·6· ·the public hearing this evening, and with me
·7· ·tonight is another one of the rate
·8· ·commissioners, Mark Perkins.· The Charter Plan
·9· ·of the District was amended by voters in St.
10· ·Louis City and County at a general election on
11· ·November 7th, 2000, and established the Rate
12· ·Commission.· The purpose of the Rate Commission
13· ·is to review and make recommendations to MSD's
14· ·Board of Trustees regarding changes in
15· ·wastewater rates, stormwater rates and tax
16· ·rates proposed by MSD staff.
17· · · · The Rate Commission seeks to ensure MSD
18· ·ratepayers, and the public in general, have a
19· ·voice in the MSD's rating-setting process.· Per
20· ·the Charter Plan, the Rate Commission is
21· ·composed of 15 member organizations who
22· ·collectively represent the broadest possible
23· ·cross-section of MSD customers and the
24· ·community it serves.· Rate Commission member
25· ·organizations are selected by MSD's Board of
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·1· ·Trustees through a public self-nomination and
·2· ·selection process set forth in the charter.
·3· · · · Each member organization serves a six-year
·4· ·term and appoints an individual to represent
·5· ·the organization on the Rate Commission.· Per
·6· ·the voter-approved changes made to MSD's
·7· ·charter in 2000, the Board of Trustees shall
·8· ·select member organizations so, "as to ensure a
·9· ·fair representation of all users of the
10· ·district's services."· Specifically, the Rate
11· ·Commission member organizations, quote, "shall
12· ·represent commercial, industrial users,
13· ·residential users and other organizations
14· ·interested in the operation of the District,
15· ·including by way of example but not by way of
16· ·limitation, organizations focusing on
17· ·environmental issues, labor issues,
18· ·socioeconomic issues, community and
19· ·neighborhood organizations and other nonprofit
20· ·organizations", close quote.
21· · · · For a list of individual Rate Commissions
22· ·and the organizations they represent, please
23· ·visit the Rate Commission's section of MSD's
24· ·website at www.msdprojectclear.org.· The Rate
25· ·Commission received a rate change notice from
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·1· ·MSD staff on March 24, 2023, for wastewater
·2· ·rates and stormwater rates and taxes.· Per the
·3· ·Charter Plan, the Rate Commission must issue
·4· ·its report on the proposed rate change notice
·5· ·to MSD's Board of Trustees on or before
·6· ·September 5th, 2023.
·7· · · · The Rate Commission adopted operational
·8· ·rules and a procedural schedule to conduct its
·9· ·proceeding in a timely manner and with
10· ·procedural fairness to all parties.· Since the
11· ·rate change notice was received on March 24th,
12· ·2023, the Rate Commission has received
13· ·testimony from MSD staff and the rate
14· ·consultants employed by the Rate Commission to
15· ·evaluate the MSD staff proposal.· The parties
16· ·have also engaged in discovery requests.
17· ·Documentation of these activities is listed on
18· ·the Rate Commission section of MSD's website at
19· ·www.msdprojectclear.org.
20· · · · Tonight's public hearing is one of 14
21· ·planned on-the-record sessions that will be
22· ·conducted from June 21st, 2023, through
23· ·August 7th, 2023.· Any ratepayer who wishes to
24· ·be heard on the proposed rate change may
25· ·testify or participate in the public hearing
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·1· ·sessions.· These public hearings are publicly
·2· ·noticed via postings to the Rate Commission
·3· ·section of MSD's website at
·4· ·www.msdprojectclear.org.· These postings
·5· ·contain the time, date and location of each of
·6· ·the public hearings.
·7· · · · As hearings are added to the schedule, the
·8· ·same information will be posted.· Public
·9· ·hearings are held for the purpose of permitting
10· ·MSD staff to present its wastewater and
11· ·stormwater rate change proposal to the general
12· ·public and to permit said public the
13· ·opportunity to ask questions and/or make
14· ·comments.· Those unable to or not wishing to
15· ·provide comments at a public hearing may
16· ·provide feedback to the Rate Commission via
17· ·phone or e-mail.· The phone number is
18· ·(314)335-2028.· (314)335-2028.· The e-mail
19· ·address is ratecommission, all one word, rate
20· ·commission@ahcconsulting.com, rate
21· ·commission@ahcconsulting.com.
22· · · · A card with the contact information is
23· ·available at the sign-in area.· Alternatively,
24· ·staff representing the Rate Commission, who I
25· ·will ask to identify themselves shortly, will
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·1· ·also be able to provide that information.
·2· ·Further information on how to provide feedback
·3· ·outside of the public hearings is listed on the
·4· ·Rate Commission's section of the website at:
·5· ·www.msdprojectclear.org.
·6· · · · Our next step tonight is a presentation by
·7· ·MSD staff, followed by a public comment period.
·8· ·Tonight's presenter is Brian Hoelscher, MSD's
·9· ·CEO and executive director.· As the presiding
10· ·commissioner of tonight's meeting, I ask that
11· ·everyone hold their questions until the comment
12· ·period at the end of the presentation.· Those
13· ·wishing to speak should sign in at the sign-up
14· ·area.· Speakers will be called in the order
15· ·they have signed up, and then each speaker
16· ·should identify themselves and any
17· ·organizations they represent.
18· · · · Several housekeeping rules before we
19· ·begin.· If you wish to present testimony or
20· ·expect you may have questions or comments,
21· ·please sign in at the door by which you entered
22· ·the room.· Again, the speakers will be
23· ·recognized in the order in which they sign up,
24· ·and while not a requirement, we ask those who
25· ·are speaking, please state their name and
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·1· ·address so we can assure that we are
·2· ·associating the comments on the record with the
·3· ·correct speakers.· And if you are representing
·4· ·an organization, please provide any information
·5· ·about the organization.
·6· · · · If speakers wish to remain anonymous, in
·7· ·whole or in part, we also certainly respect
·8· ·those wishes.· Each speaker will have a maximum
·9· ·of ten minutes to speak regarding the proposed
10· ·rate change, and as a presiding officer, I can
11· ·limit or expand any speaking time as deemed
12· ·necessary.· If you have not already done so,
13· ·please put your cell phone on silent or off.
14· ·And if you have any further questions regarding
15· ·restroom facilities or any other logistics,
16· ·staff representing the Rate Commission, and
17· ·I'll ask for those staff to raise their hands
18· ·now, those staff people representing the Rate
19· ·Commission are available to answer any of those
20· ·other logistical questions.
21· · · · Are there any other questions from anyone
22· ·regarding the procedure for this evening?· I'll
23· ·ask Mr. Hoelscher to begin with his
24· ·presentation.· Mr. Hoelscher, the floor is
25· ·yours.
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·1· · · · MR. HOELSCHER:· Thank you, Mr. Toenjes.
·2· ·You know, Brian Hoelscher, I'm the executive
·3· ·director and CEO at MSD.· Tonight's
·4· ·presentation, I'm going to spend a little time
·5· ·explaining what MSD does.· It's a large entity.
·6· ·Not everybody touches every piece of it, but
·7· ·this particular rate proposal does touch every
·8· ·service that we happen to provide.· So, I'm
·9· ·going to give a little background, and then
10· ·I'll dive into what exactly is being proposed.
11· · · · It's a tale of two systems.· So we do have
12· ·a wastewater system and a stormwater system.
13· ·They're completely separated, and they collect
14· ·their own revenues.· They only do the work
15· ·based on the revenue they collect.· So, we
16· ·don't take wastewater money to do stormwater
17· ·work or stormwater work to do wastewater -- or
18· ·stormwater revenues to do wastewater work.· We
19· ·come to the Rate Commission usually every four
20· ·years.· Mr. Toenjes explained what that looks
21· ·like.· What you're going to see is the 2023
22· ·rate proposal.· And it's going to cover our
23· ·proposed program and proposed rates from our
24· ·2025 through 2028 for that four-year period.
25· · · · One more slide, if you would.· Thank you.
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·1· ·Okay, MSD's Project Clear protects the public's
·2· ·health and safety and water environment by
·3· ·managing the programs with separate funding
·4· ·sources.· One for stormwater, one for
·5· ·wastewater.· As the region's management
·6· ·problems change, funding differences are
·7· ·causing a divergence between these two
·8· ·programs.· One for the better, that's on the
·9· ·wastewater side, and there is something that
10· ·we've been trying resolve on the revenue side
11· ·for the stormwater, and we're coming back to
12· ·get that, and you'll hear that described.
13· · · · Current services, the wastewater system,
14· ·we clean and repair the existing wastewater
15· ·system.· We take care of wastewater from the
16· ·minute it leaves your lateral coming out of
17· ·your home or business.· We collect it,
18· ·transport it, pump it, treat it and discharge
19· ·it to local creeks and streams.
20· · · · We are in the middle of complying with all
21· ·environmental regulations.· We're in the middle
22· ·of what's called a consent decree like over 200
23· ·large communities throughout the United States
24· ·who are trying to meet the Clean Water Act.· At
25· ·a certain point in the 2000s, the Federal
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·1· ·Government decided we want to sue every one of
·2· ·them to give them an exact schedule when they
·3· ·need be to come into compliance with the Clean
·4· ·Water Act.
·5· · · · You'll find that is the primary driver
·6· ·between -- with almost all the work we do on
·7· ·the wastewater side.· And you'll see major new
·8· ·improvements, and that's a big part of what's
·9· ·in the proposal.· There are changes to the
10· ·system that have to be done in order to bring
11· ·it into compliance.
12· · · · The stormwater side, there's a couple
13· ·things.· Clean and repair storm sewers.
14· ·We actually did not have the ability to clean
15· ·and repair just the storm sewers and inlets
16· ·until 2016, when the public voted those in.· We
17· ·could, and Creve Coeur is a great place, for an
18· ·example, everything on the east half of Creve
19· ·Coeur, the storm sewers and inlets we could
20· ·operate and maintain.· On the west side, when
21· ·MSD was given that responsibility, they were
22· ·given no revenues, so we couldn't fix inlets.
23· ·We couldn't clean storm sewers.· That got taken
24· ·care of in 2016 with the property tax that the
25· ·public approved.
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·1· · · · The final one is for funding for new
·2· ·improvements, and this is to address things
·3· ·like flooding and erosion that don't involve
·4· ·the public storm sewer system.· We tried to do
·5· ·this.· We tried in 2008.· The Supreme Court
·6· ·found that proposal to be inappropriate.· 2019,
·7· ·we came to the Rate Commission process, the
·8· ·public voted no to have us provide funding for
·9· ·that.· We continuously hear from the public;
10· ·we're going to try again.· We made some changes
11· ·to the program based on some successes we've
12· ·seen in other parts of the program and what
13· ·we've heard from the public.
14· · · · So, what are the wastewater system
15· ·improvements?· So, right now, the value of the
16· ·consent decree is 7.2 million dollars on the
17· ·wastewater side in 2023.· It hasn't increased
18· ·in cost; we always just made sure we priced it
19· ·to the current year.· So, in 2021, it was
20· ·4.7 million.· In 2021, it was 6.1 -- I'm sorry,
21· ·4.7 billion.· 2021, it was 6.1 billion, and
22· ·then what happens over the last two years, we
23· ·repriced it for this rate proposal, and it's
24· ·now valued at 7.2 billion dollars.· But we are
25· ·on schedule, and we are on the budget for
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·1· ·completing the work.
·2· · · · The whole idea is to reduce basement
·3· ·backups in homes and overflows that go into the
·4· ·environment.· At a lot of places, there are
·5· ·little pipes that are sticking out of manholes.
·6· ·When we inherited the system, instead of having
·7· ·basements back up, they would dump the water,
·8· ·the wastewater water, into the creeks.· We're
·9· ·taking care of those.· That will improve water
10· ·quality and also keep our area -- keep us in
11· ·compliance with the Clean Water Act.
12· · · · There are some things we do.· First of
13· ·all, we increase the system, the capacity of
14· ·the system to take care of surges that come
15· ·through the system, removing water that wasn't
16· ·in the system.
17· · · · Some of you may have participated in --
18· ·St. Louis, unfortunately, had a lot of places
19· ·where the downspouts from the homes were
20· ·connected to the wastewater system.· It was
21· ·causing major backups and major water backups.
22· ·We went through and tried to repair all of
23· ·those.· So, the point was to get stormwater out
24· ·of entering the wastewater system.· And there
25· ·are also points where you have untreated water
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·1· ·spills into rivers and streams, and, again,
·2· ·those are those overflow points I was talking
·3· ·about that were put in some -- as long a
·4· ·hundred years ago.
·5· · · · The progress we made on the wastewater
·6· ·system so far, those separate system wastewater
·7· ·overflows, those points in the system that used
·8· ·to discharge in creeks, we eliminated
·9· ·84 percent of those.· We're on the schedule the
10· ·EPA has set for us to get that done.· Building
11· ·backups are down 25 percent.· Probably even
12· ·more so than that, when we have a normal storm
13· ·that used to cause MSD a lot of problems, we
14· ·see nothing.· So, that's worked really well to
15· ·get the system cleaned and get it up to speed
16· ·and make sure it can do its job.· For
17· ·everything else, there are still some projects
18· ·required.· We have completed or started 650
19· ·projects since we started the consent decree in
20· ·2012.
21· · · · Stormwater looks a little bit different.
22· ·We collect stormwater problems or understand
23· ·what they are from the public.· We are a
24· ·regulator on the stormwater side as well, so
25· ·whenever we hear of a stormwater problem, you
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·1· ·all hear.· We know it's there.· We want to be
·2· ·aware it's there.· The numbers continue
·3· ·increasing.· That's kind of the way stormwater
·4· ·is.
·5· · · · So, you see on the chart the numbers as to
·6· ·how many reported stormwater problems we have.
·7· ·Recently, they've gone up because of climate
·8· ·change.· We are seeing things we never saw
·9· ·before.· In the last ten years, at least, we
10· ·had about four years of major river flooding.
11· ·As a matter of fact, remember that, the
12· ·Mississippi River and the Meramec River?· That
13· ·was followed by spot areas within our district
14· ·experiencing 500-year storms, huge storms.
15· ·Beyond the capacity of either natural or
16· ·artificial infrastructure, culminating last
17· ·summer and hitting the entire area at least
18· ·twice, a 500-year storm.
19· · · · So, there are a lot of existing problems
20· ·out there.· There were problems before we had
21· ·the storms last summer, and the storm last
22· ·summer revealed some more needs that are out
23· ·there.· Something that, hopefully, MSD can help
24· ·participate in.· They follow two general
25· ·categories.· Now, from what I just described,
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·1· ·this is a pretty small storm-born problem.
·2· ·This is kind of one of these backyard issues we
·3· ·had, where no infrastructure was put in place,
·4· ·things are held up, and we can solve those
·5· ·types of problems if we get the revenue source.
·6· · · · Another one is creek erosion.· That's the
·7· ·biggest one.· It's not necessarily the
·8· ·flooding, but that amount of water going
·9· ·through the creeks is eroding creeks and banks,
10· ·and sometimes people are losing homes.· We have
11· ·the ability, if this passes, to start
12· ·addressing those issues district-wide as well.
13· · · · We'll go through this.· You can see it.
14· ·We identified the improvements by area.· These
15· ·are for stormwater, so if you note -- if you
16· ·take a look at the number -- the pink area,
17· ·there's 264, and you see different numbers
18· ·everywhere, I would caution you a little bit
19· ·because of some local taxes.· That pink area
20· ·which has the most stormwater problems also has
21· ·some small taxing revenues.· So we are able to
22· ·do some work.· If we can do a little work, that
23· ·generates people to call us with problems.
24· · · · In the areas we have no money at all, they
25· ·call a couple of times, and then they stop
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·1· ·because we just say we don't have any money.
·2· ·So, as this gets forward, I am sure we're going
·3· ·to find even more problems than we have shown
·4· ·on the chart.
·5· · · · Really quick about the Rate Commission,
·6· ·I'm not going to go over what Len said, but
·7· ·again, it's an independent rate commission.· 15
·8· ·organizations, the purpose is to receive public
·9· ·input on the rate proposal, the rate that MSD
10· ·staff has put together, and he's given you --
11· ·one more time, you get to see the website where
12· ·you can go and see all the information.
13· · · · The timeline for the Rate Commission: in
14· ·2022, MSD staff, summer of 2022, we started
15· ·putting this rate proposal together.· So, then
16· ·if you pick up what's on the -- up on the chart
17· ·on the screen, from March, we deliver the rate
18· ·proposal, MSD staff to the Rate Commission,
19· ·from March to September.· As Mr. Toenjes just
20· ·said, they will evaluate that proposal.· They
21· ·will make their evaluation.· They will then
22· ·forward it to our Board of Trustees.· They'll
23· ·take a look for the first time, go over it real
24· ·quick, and add some of the ideas and thoughts
25· ·from the Rate Commission, and they'll evaluate
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·1· ·that and decide how to proceed.
·2· · · · There will be a vote.· So for both of
·3· ·these proposals, there are two things.· There's
·4· ·a wastewater side, which is doing
·5· ·court-mandated work.· How would the public like
·6· ·to pay for it?· The question is whether or not
·7· ·we should borrow some money or just pay for it
·8· ·as we go.
·9· · · · The other part is the stormwater service,
10· ·to address, which we never had district-wide,
11· ·flooding and erosion.· The question that will
12· ·come up in April there, April 2024, is, do you
13· ·want MSD to have funding to help solve that
14· ·problem.· Pretty simple question.· If you do,
15· ·you would vote yes.· If you don't want MSD to
16· ·participate, vote no.· And that's what it would
17· ·be like.
18· · · · Prior to that, MSD staff in 2024 will be
19· ·doing a lot of work out in the public
20· ·explaining; we're not going advocate for one or
21· ·the other.· But we will let you know if you
22· ·vote yes, this is what happens.· If you vote
23· ·no, this is what happens.· And we will do a lot
24· ·of outreach at that time once the Rate
25· ·Commission has completed their work.
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·1· · · · If it is successful, there are two
·2· ·schedules.· Again, the wastewater problem
·3· ·keeps -- the wastewater program will keep
·4· ·going.· We will fall under the new rate
·5· ·proposal in August -- in July of 2024 for the
·6· ·wastewater system, and we'll have new rates
·7· ·set, whether through bonded rates or PayGo
·8· ·rates, and if the stormwater system passes,
·9· ·whatever small stormwater pieces we have will
10· ·stay in place through the end of calendar year
11· ·2024 if this passes, and then we'll start all
12· ·the collection processes, whether it's through
13· ·residence or non-residential properties will
14· ·occur for the first time in calendar year 2025
15· ·assuming that passes.
16· · · · The rate proposals, so we're going to do
17· ·stormwater first.· We're doing this -- again,
18· ·we're addressing flooding and erosion,
19· ·something we cannot do district-wide right now.
20· ·One of the ways we wanted to make sure we were
21· ·equitable between residential and
22· ·non-residential properties is we figure -- we
23· ·calculate what is the impervious area?· The
24· ·areas where water really runs out.· So, it
25· ·turned out that 57 percent of the impervious
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·1· ·areas on residential properties.· 43 is on
·2· ·non-residential, so we divided up the revenue
·3· ·that we collected between those two classes of
·4· ·ratepayers so there was equity between those
·5· ·two classes.· We were collecting from those
·6· ·based on the amount that they were generating.
·7· · · · In the proposal for the residential
·8· ·customer, what we're doing is -- we proposing
·9· ·for the median customer, which in the St. Louis
10· ·area is a home valued at 176,000, we
11· ·recommending -- we're proposing a property tax
12· ·in our service area of $2.08 cents per month
13· ·for the median house property -- median
14· ·property owner.· That comes to about $25 per
15· ·year.· Where that comes from is polling of the
16· ·public.· If we want -- based on polling,
17· ·50 percent of the public to vote yes for this,
18· ·two dollars is kind of the cutoff.· So, there
19· ·was no point in going higher.· We wanted to
20· ·collect as much money as we can to be able to
21· ·do something, but that's where we came up with
22· ·the $2 per year -- per month for the median --
23· ·for the median household in order to move
24· ·forward.
25· · · · The non-residential customers, again, I'll
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·1· ·show you how we divided up the revenue source.
·2· ·The non-residential customers, these include
·3· ·the not-for-profit non-residential customers,
·4· ·every month they will pay $1.05 per thousand
·5· ·square feet of impervious area on their
·6· ·property: parking lot, rooftops, sidewalks,
·7· ·anything that's a hard surface that the water
·8· ·doesn't soak in and runs off, we will map that
·9· ·by aerial photography, and they'll be based --
10· ·they'll be billed on a monthly basis.
11· · · · That funding will generate about $34
12· ·million per year, and, again, is it really
13· ·driven by what the public has told us they're
14· ·willing to spend, at least to get the program
15· ·started.· Right now, we have identified about
16· ·$700 million worth of issues, and that was
17· ·before last summer's floods and last summer's
18· ·storms.· But I will tell you, I think it's very
19· ·important why we put this proposal together.
20· ·We need to get something started so people can
21· ·see the benefit of getting the program going.
22· · · · The way we spend it, and this came from a
23· ·lot of input, is how are we going to spend the
24· ·34 million?· Fifty percent of it is going to be
25· ·spent based on benefit-cost analysis.· MSD will
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·1· ·take every problem it knows, add up all the
·2· ·benefits.· We put a point value on things like
·3· ·if your house is threatened or if your garage
·4· ·is threatened, or your swimming pool is
·5· ·threatened, then we divide it by the cost to do
·6· ·the job, and whichever one ranks best, we
·7· ·simply work our way down the list.· We've done
·8· ·this in small tax districts.· It's a very fair
·9· ·way to determine who goes first.
10· · · · Fifty percent of the revenues will be
11· ·spent towards that program.· Forty percent of
12· ·the revenues are going to go towards direct
13· ·grants to the cities to solve whatever
14· ·stormwater problems they think is most
15· ·important.· Those moneys will be divided up
16· ·amongst those individual municipalities.· Our
17· ·proposal is to do it based on population.· It's
18· ·a common way in the State of Missouri for this
19· ·type of thing to happen, and we felt it was
20· ·appropriate to follow through with that.
21· · · · Another 10 percent, and I'm going to use
22· ·the federal term "Environment Justice", because
23· ·MSD participates both in the State and the
24· ·federal government.· The State doesn't use that
25· ·term, but I'm going to use it just for
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·1· ·consistency so I don't mess up here.· So, there
·2· ·are environmental justice areas that are
·3· ·identified by the State within our service
·4· ·area.· Underserved areas -- traditionally
·5· ·underserved areas.· We're going to, say, take
·6· ·10 percent of those funds, identify the
·7· ·projects just in the environmental justice area
·8· ·and rank those and have a special pot sitting
·9· ·back by -- sitting there so we can do projects
10· ·for those folks who have been traditionally
11· ·underserved for a lot of reasons or in a lot of
12· ·ways.
13· · · · And then finally, and this came up, and I
14· ·think it's a really good idea for public input,
15· ·10 percent of the dollars is going to go into
16· ·a, let's figure what we want to do pot.· So,
17· ·we're going to collect 10 percent of it.· Right
18· ·now, we're thinking we're going to something
19· ·like the Municipal League and say, okay, let's
20· ·get together.· What's not covered under this
21· ·program?· What's really important?· Where is
22· ·there is really a regional-type policy issue we
23· ·need to address, and just because it occurred,
24· ·it may be that, hey, let's buy people out of
25· ·flood planes for two years based on what
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·1· ·happened this past summer.· That could be a
·2· ·decision.· But the idea is for the public to go
·3· ·and see what the rest of the program looks
·4· ·like, get the public together, pluck -- public
·5· ·leaders together, elected officials, if we use
·6· ·the Municipal League, and say, okay, for this
·7· ·year, what do we want do with that extra pot of
·8· ·money?· Where we can make the best difference
·9· ·for something that maybe we're not touching
10· ·with the rest of the program.
11· · · · Going to the wastewater rate proposal,
12· ·again, we're in the middle of doing the consent
13· ·decree.· It's a 28-year-long consent decree.
14· ·We started in 2011.· It will end in 2039.· It
15· ·will last for quite a while.· Being currently
16· ·valued at $7.2 billion.· By the end of this
17· ·year, we will have completed just about half of
18· ·that 3.1 billion.· There's another 1.7 billion
19· ·in this rate proposal, that will put us more
20· ·than halfway across the finish line.· We'll
21· ·have $2.4 billion left of work to go.
22· · · · What we're going to ask the voters is: how
23· ·do you want to pay for this?· I'll give you the
24· ·data here in a minute, but the question is
25· ·going to be, we can either borrow, get
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·1· ·authority to borrow an additional
·2· ·700 billion -- 700 million dollars of bonds to
·3· ·help pay for -- yeah, to help pay for the
·4· ·program moving forward.· That's like borrowing
·5· ·money for your house.· You'll pay cash or card,
·6· ·I'm going to go ahead and get a loan.· It costs
·7· ·less right now.· But you've got interest and
·8· ·stuff to pay in the future.· But it's up to the
·9· ·residents, the voters.· If the voters say, no,
10· ·we don't want you to borrow money, we'll also
11· ·have another provision.
12· · · · Remember, this is a court-mandated
13· ·program.· If you vote no, then there's a PayGo
14· ·option, where we just simply collect the cash
15· ·now, pay cash for everything.· That has the
16· ·downside of rates being much higher at the
17· ·beginning, but then you don't have the debt
18· ·service further on.· So, we'll weigh that out,
19· ·and we'll put that in front of the voters as to
20· ·what they think is the best way to pay for the
21· ·program.
22· · · · And here is -- on the wastewater side,
23· ·here's what the numbers look like.· So, right
24· ·now, the average, typical customer at MSD pays
25· ·$57.04 per month per wastewater bill.· Yours
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·1· ·may be different, may be lower, may be higher,
·2· ·especially out in the county.· Your bill is
·3· ·based on how much water you use during winter.
·4· ·So, everybody is getting a different bill based
·5· ·on our estimate of what's going down in the
·6· ·sewers.
·7· · · · But for the average residential customer,
·8· ·the first year, it will go up 7 percent to
·9· ·$61.04.· The next year, 7.6 percent to 65, 66.
10· ·Then 7 and a half percent and 6.6 percent,
11· ·ending in $75.23 cents per month for the
12· ·average customer if the public votes to allow
13· ·additional bonding authority.· The public has
14· ·the right to say we don't want to borrow any
15· ·more money.· If they do, what you'll see happen
16· ·is what you see on the right-hand side.
17· · · · Again, right now, we're $57.04, and
18· ·because the program is growing, we need to
19· ·collect money to pay for things right away.
20· ·You see some very large spikes at the
21· ·beginning.· A 35 percent, 35, it lowers
22· ·20 percent on the third year and then kicks
23· ·back up to the 5 percent but lands at $87.72
24· ·with a typical customer.· It is up to the
25· ·voters to decide which way you want to pay for
Page 29
·1· ·this program for the next four years.
·2· · · · I think the last thing, yeah, before the
·3· ·questions, we do this traditionally every four
·4· ·years.· It gives us a couple things.· One, we
·5· ·know we want to check in with the Rate
·6· ·Commission every four years, say, here's how
·7· ·we've done.· Typically, except for this year,
·8· ·we've done well enough, and we saved enough
·9· ·money we can take some of what's left over, and
10· ·it simply gets put into lowering the rate on
11· ·the front end of the next proposal.· So, we do
12· ·this, and we meet every four years.
13· · · · Sometimes we have a stormwater component.
14· ·This stormwater component you're seeing is the
15· ·last stormwater service that is unfunded by
16· ·MSD -- for MSD.· So, we're coming back and
17· ·seeing the public -- based on public input,
18· ·they asked us to give it another shot.· That's
19· ·what you're -- that's why you're seeing two
20· ·parts of this proposal, one wastewater, one
21· ·stormwater.· Mr. Chairman, I'm done.
22· · · · CHAIRMAN TOENJES:· Thank you,
23· ·Mr. Hoelscher.· Are there any -- did anybody
24· ·sign up outside for any questions?
25· · · · MR. LECOMB:· No, they just signed in.· So
Page 30
·1· ·I would recommend asking if anyone does have a
·2· ·question.
·3· · · · CHAIRMAN TOENJES:· All right.· Well, let's
·4· ·ask anyone then who has questions, either for
·5· ·myself or for Mr. Hoelscher, to just stand and
·6· ·identify yourself, and we will do our level
·7· ·best to answer the questions.· Or if you don't
·8· ·have questions, hear your comments.· Yes,
·9· ·please.
10· · · · MS. YOLANDA FOUNTAIN HENDERSON:· So,
11· ·really, the best thing is to vote yes to save
12· ·us money, correct?
13· · · · CHAIRMAN TOENJES:· I will say that is your
14· ·choice.· That's up to each individual voter.
15· ·You saw -- you saw the chart concerning the --
16· ·you do have the two components, and I think
17· ·it's up to each individual to decide,
18· ·especially on the wastewater, which option
19· ·looks best, and the stormwater, that is that
20· ·separate issue depending on if you want to
21· ·allow MSD to have the resources to address
22· ·stormwater or not.
23· · · · THE COURT REPORTER:· Excuse me, ma'am.
24· ·Can I get your name?
25· · · · MS. YOLANDA FOUNTAIN HENDERSON:· Huh?
Page 31
·1· · · · THE COURT REPORTER:· Can I get your name?
·2· · · · MS. YOLANDA FOUNTAIN HENDERSON:· Yolanda?
·3· · · · THE COURT REPORTER:· And your last name?
·4· · · · MS. YOLANDA FOUNTAIN HENDERSON:· Fountain
·5· ·Henderson.
·6· · · · THE COURT REPORTER:· Fountain Henderson,
·7· ·thank you.
·8· · · · MS. YOLANDA FOUNTAIN HENDERSON:· Are these
·9· ·slides available?· Because the residents are
10· ·going to be asking me questions.· Are these
11· ·slides available?
12· · · · CHAIRMAN TOENJES:· I will ask our public
13· ·relations folks if those slides are available
14· ·or not.
15· · · · MR. LECOMB:· The presentation was just
16· ·finalized today.· We'll get it up on the
17· ·website within probably 24 hours of that, so --
18· · · · MS. YOLANDA FOUNTAIN HENDERSON:· Okay, all
19· ·right, that's great.
20· · · · MR. HOELSCHER:· I think those charts are
21· ·also in a different format as presented to the
22· ·Rate Commission is on the Rate Commission's
23· ·website also.· It's going to be much more
24· ·convenient to go to their presentation.
25· · · · CHAIRMAN TOENJES:· I -- I will say that on
Page 32
·1· ·the website, there is a tremendous amount of
·2· ·detail where all those numbers are there. I
·3· ·would, you know, for those people who are
·4· ·engineers or math teachers, it's a great
·5· ·resource for those people who want to
·6· ·understand it, these slides are a lot more
·7· ·functional.· So, 24 hours?
·8· · · · MR. LECOMB:· Yes, within 24.
·9· · · · MR. HOELSCHER:· Mr. Chair, I forget
10· ·something.· Can I very quickly?· I apologize
11· ·for this.· I also want to mention we have staff
12· ·members here from MSD.· Raise your hands.
13· · · · So, we know we're doing a rate proposal
14· ·presentation.· Oftentimes, people have very
15· ·specific questions about their property,
16· ·something that's going on.· We will stay as
17· ·long as everybody will -- wants us to.· If
18· ·you've got questions, please grab one of them,
19· ·ask the question.· If it's not really pertinent
20· ·to this, or if it is, but if you have
21· ·individual questions, get to those folks.· We
22· ·want to be able to collect and see if we can
23· ·answer or come back and get to you later.· So,
24· ·we'll take care of that also if something's not
25· ·being addressed here, okay?· In the
Page 33
·1· ·presentation.
·2· · · · MS. KATHY FREDERICK:· Can I --
·3· · · · CHAIRMAN TOENJES:· Yes, ma'am, please.
·4· · · · MS. KATHY FREDERICK:· I have a question.
·5· ·MSD did some work on the street next to our
·6· ·subdivision, and they told me the trucks were
·7· ·very heavy, filled with boulders when they
·8· ·broke up the street, and they came through our
·9· ·subdivision and damaged the street.· And they
10· ·never did come back and fix it, although they
11· ·were, by the residents, notified of the damage,
12· ·and they continually drove these trucks through
13· ·the subdivision, which they did for many days,
14· ·that they should be responsible for this.
15· · · · CHAIRMAN TOENJES:· Well, I will suggest if
16· ·those MSD -- see the gentleman in the black
17· ·shirt there?
18· · · · MS. KATHY FREDERICK:· Oh, okay.
19· · · · CHAIRMAN TOENJES:· If you can give him the
20· ·specifics?· Thank you.· Any other questions or
21· ·comments?· Yes.
22· · · · MS. SAMANTHA KEBENE:· So, will the vote be
23· ·just one question that includes both wastewater
24· ·and stormwater or will they be two separate
25· ·questions?
Page 34
·1· · · · CHAIRMAN TOENJES:· They will have to be
·2· ·two separate questions.· They're two separate
·3· ·issues, so it will be two separate ballot
·4· ·issues.
·5· · · · MS. SAMANTHA KEBENE:· Thank you.
·6· · · · THE COURT REPORTER:· Can I get your name?
·7· · · · MS. SAMANTHA KEBENE:· Samantha Kebene.
·8· · · · THE COURT REPORTER:· Samantha Kebene?
·9· · · · MS. SAMANTHA KEBENE:· Kebene with a B.
10· · · · CHAIRMAN TOENJES:· Yes, sir?
11· · · · MR. ALASTAIR PRINGLE:· Yeah, my name is
12· ·Alastair Pringle, and I live at Creek Side View
13· ·Drive, which, you can imagine, is close to a
14· ·creek.
15· · · · CHAIRMAN TOENJES:· Imagine that.
16· · · · MR. ALASTAIR PRINGLE:· Yeah, imagine that.
17· ·I will say that my first job that I got was in
18· ·a sewer treatment plan, so I'm not unfamiliar
19· ·with what you're talking about, and
20· ·I actually teach environment biology, and, so,
21· ·I completely, you know -- completely understand
22· ·the things that you're doing and completely on
23· ·board with -- you know, I know how important it
24· ·is to fix these issues.
25· · · · Nobody wants to pay for them.· You know,
Page 35
·1· ·the only thing is, there's a little headway,
·2· ·you know, just recently, the water rates went
·3· ·up 40 percent, and, you know, our property
·4· ·taxes have gone up a lot.· Everybody likes the
·5· ·fact that their house is worth more, then when
·6· ·the bill arrives then, it's not so popular.
·7· ·So, I just wonder if there's a way to, you
·8· ·know, 7 percent increase is a little -- you
·9· ·know, may have a little headway against it.· If
10· ·there's any way of moderating that, lend -- I
11· ·mean, half the project, so it's not quite as --
12· ·doesn't seem quite as dramatic, but, overall,
13· ·I'm in favor of what you're doing.
14· · · · CHAIRMAN TOENJES:· Thank you.
15· ·Mr. Hoelscher, you want to comment on that?
16· · · · MR. HOELSCHER:· So, having to do with
17· ·that, you're right.· Every time we come back
18· ·every four years, the question is, what else is
19· ·going on?· On the wastewater side, I'm not
20· ·gonna really answer your question, but just so
21· ·you know what it looks like, the next four
22· ·years of the capital program on the wastewater
23· ·side, 98 percent of it is mandated by either
24· ·regulations or the consent decree.· So, we're
25· ·not doing any optional work.· We trimmed down
Page 36
·1· ·that as much as we could.
·2· · · · MSD does have a pretty robust program for
·3· ·those individuals whose income is less than
·4· ·twice the poverty level.· We have a program
·5· ·where they pay just half the rate.· And, so, we
·6· ·are -- we are tracking the affordability index,
·7· ·that we -- which we use when did the consent
·8· ·decree.· We're still at a fairly -- we're a
·9· ·little ahead of where we thought we would be
10· ·now.· We're not reaching what EPA thinks is the
11· ·limit of affordability.
12· · · · So, while -- while they're not willing to
13· ·do, you know, massive changes, they have been
14· ·very cooperative in letting us make changes to
15· ·reduce the costs of -- reduce the cost of the
16· ·program.· They did give us previously a
17· ·five-year extension having to do with
18· ·regulations kind of coming up contrary to what
19· ·we were seeing in the consent decree.· So,
20· ·they've been pretty helpful with it.
21· · · · So, we haven't just been sitting here and
22· ·collecting money based on the original plan.
23· ·We've been trying to reduce the cost as best we
24· ·can, but we are down to just doing exactly what
25· ·we have to do, and kind of made that -- I agree
Page 37
·1· ·with you.· There are a lot of other things
·2· ·going on, but we are going -- we are going to
·3· ·have to move forward in this particular case
·4· ·with this one, based on MSD's opinion.
·5· · · · CHAIRMAN TOENJES:· And thank you for
·6· ·sharing that.· I really appreciate it.· Any
·7· ·other comments, questions?· I just have one
·8· ·comment.· I think -- I really truly appreciate
·9· ·everyone who showed up here this evening.· This
10· ·is not on the script.· But this is an issue
11· ·that impacts everybody in the community and
12· ·everybody in the region.· You are the heroes
13· ·for being here this evening to learn about it
14· ·and get engaged.· We really appreciate every
15· ·one of the 15 rate commissioners who is
16· ·volunteering all their time to try to represent
17· ·their different constituencies and folks who
18· ·are here.· So, thank you all very much for
19· ·being here this evening to learn about it.· If
20· ·you get home and you think, doggone it, I wish
21· ·I would have asked such and such, you got the
22· ·phone number on the card.· You know the e-mail.
23· ·Please share any other questions or comments
24· ·you have, or if someone else in your family has
25· ·a question or comment, share it.· We are
Page 38
·1· ·only -- the rate commissioners are only as good
·2· ·as the public feedback that we receive.· So,
·3· ·thanks very much for your questions and
·4· ·learning about it.· Anyone else?
·5· · · · MR. ALASTAIR PRINGLE:· Could I throw in
·6· ·one more comment?
·7· · · · CHAIRMAN TOENJES:· Please.
·8· · · · MR. ALASTAIR PRINGLE:· You know, I don't
·9· ·think this was very well publicized.· I did
10· ·pick it up from the TV news tonight.· That's
11· ·why I come over.· And I looked on Creve Coeur's
12· ·website, and it's not listed as a meeting on
13· ·there, you know, is the place --
14· · · · CHAIRMAN TOENJES:· Right.
15· · · · MR. ALASTAIR PRINGLE:· -- since I live in
16· ·Creve Coeur, so I think just maybe if you make
17· ·sure it was -- it was more -- better
18· ·publicized, that would help, you know.· We're
19· ·not all going to the MSD site.
20· · · · CHAIRMAN TOENJES:· Sure.· Our public
21· ·relations consultants are here and hearing
22· ·that, so it's a challenge to reach folks.
23· ·You're exactly right.· So, we'll continue for
24· ·the rest of the remaining ten to get the word
25· ·out.· The next hearing is tomorrow, June 22nd,
Page 39
·1· · ·at 6:00 p.m. in the City of Brentwood's Counsel
·2· · ·Chambers at Brentwood City Hall.· Brentwood
·3· · ·City Hall is at 2348 South Brentwood Boulevard
·4· · ·in Brentwood, Missouri 63144.· And a series of
·5· · ·the other hearings are on the card.· Anything
·6· · ·else?· We will adjourn the public hearing and
·7· · ·thanks everyone for being here.· Thank you very
·8· · ·much.
·9· ·(Ending time of the proceedings : 07:40 p.m.)
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·1· · · · I, Colin Wallis, in and for the State of
·2· ·Missouri do hereby certify that the witness
·3· ·whose testimony appears in the foregoing
·4· ·Examination Under Oath was duly sworn by me;
·5· ·that the testimony of the said witness was
·6· ·taken by me to the best of my ability and
·7· ·thereafter reduced to typewriting under my
·8· ·direction; that I am neither counsel for,
·9· ·related to, nor employed by any of the parties
10· ·to the action in which this examination was
11· ·taken, and further that I am not relative or
12· ·employee of any attorney or counsel employed by
13· ·the parties thereto, nor financially or
14· ·otherwise interested in the outcome of the
15· ·action.
16· · · · ______________________
17· · · within and for the State of Missouri
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