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HomeMy Public PortalAboutExhibit MSD 108- Transcript of Prehearing Conference- August 1, 2023Page 1 ·1 ·2 ·3 ·4 ·5 ·6 ·7· · · · · · · · · · · ·AUDIO RECORDING ·8· · · · · · ·RATE COMMISSION PRE-HEARING CONFERENCE ·9· · · · · · · · · · · ·AUGUST 1, 2023 10 11 12 13 14 15· (Due to the quality of the recorded media, portions 16· were unable to be transcribed and include inaudible 17· portions.· The transcript may also include 18· misinterpreted words and/or unidentified speakers. 19· The transcriber was not present at the time of the 20· recording; therefore, this transcript should not be 21· considered verbatim.) 22 23· TRANSCRIBED BY: MELISSA LANE 24 25 Exhibit MSD 108 Page 2 ·1· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· Two minutes to start. ·2· Two minutes to start. ·3· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· All right.· Being 1:00 p.m., we ·4· will call the August 1, 2023 meeting of the rate ·5· commission of the Metropolitan St. Louis Sewer ·6· District to order.· Mr. Clark, please call the roll. ·7· · · · · · · MR. CLARK:· Okay.· Leonard Tengens ·8· (phonetic). ·9· · · · · · · LEONARD TENGENS:· Present. 10· · · · · · · MR. CLARK:· Lou Jerres (phonetic), Lloyd 11· Palens (phonetic), Paul Zeegler (phonetic).· Patrick 12· Monahan (phonetic).· Brad Gaas (phonetic), 13· (inaudible), Jack Stine, Mark Perkins, Brian Berry, 14· McKee Coyle, Matt Muran (phonetic), Jim Faul. 15· · · · · · · JIM FAUL:· Yes. 16· · · · · · · MR. CLARK:· And Bill Clark, I'm here.· We 17· have a quorum. 18· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Thank you, Mr. Secretary. I 19· also like for Mr. Holsher (phonetic) to report on a 20· change in the composition of the rate commission. 21· · · · · · · MR. HOLSHER:· Yeah, Mt. City Bar, about 22· three weeks ago, they indicated they're -- three 23· weeks, I believe, they're going to change rep 24· delegates, and therefore, the -- they indicated the 25· position to become vacant.· Yesterday, we were Page 3 ·1· informed Celeste Dotson will now be their ·2· representative and that became official yesterday. ·3· The only thing I'd like to point out is, if she does ·4· attend the meeting today, we probably do need to make ·5· sure we swear her in before she participates in any ·6· official business. ·7· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Thank you, Mr. Holsher. I ·8· appreciate that.· Item 2, approval of minutes from ·9· July 10th, 2023.· Any comments or discussion on the 10· minutes? 11· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· Motion to approve. 12· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Motion made and seconded to 13· approve the minutes as presented.· All in favor 14· signify by saying aye. 15· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· Aye. 16· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Opposed?· Abstain?· Motion 17· carries.· Item 3, (inaudible) water, wastewater 18· proceedings.· My name is Leonard Tengens, and I'm a 19· commissioner of the rate commission of the 20· Metropolitan St. Louis Sewer District and will serve 21· as chair of this proceeding.· The charter plan of the 22· district was approved by the voters of St. Louis and 23· St. Louis County at a special election on 24· February 9th, 1954 and amended at a general election 25· on November 7th, 2000, at a special election on Page 4 ·1· June 5th, 2012, and again, at a special election on ·2· Tuesday, April 6th, 2021.· The amendment to the ·3· charter plan in 2000 established the rate commission ·4· to review and make recommendations to the district ·5· regarding changes in wastewater rates, storm water ·6· rates, and tax rates proposed by the district.· The ·7· charter plan requires the board of trustees of the ·8· district to select organizations, to name delegates to ·9· the rate commission, to ensure a fair representation 10· of all users of the district's services.· The rate 11· commission representative organizations are to 12· represent commercial industrial users, residential 13· users, and other organizations interested in the 14· operation of the district including organizations 15· focusing on environmental issue, labor issues, 16· socioeconomic issues, community neighborhood 17· organizations, and other nonprofit organizations.· The 18· rate commission currently consists of representatives 19· of associated general contractors of Missouri, 20· St. Louis Realtors, the City of Florissant, St. Louis 21· Council of Construction Consumers, Greater St. Louis 22· Labor Counsel, North American's Building Trade Unions, 23· Mt. City Bar Association, the Legal Women Voters of 24· Metro St. Louis, Home Builders Association of 25· St. Louis, the Municipal League of Metro St. Louis, Page 5 ·1· Missouri Coalition for the Environment, the City of ·2· Ladue, the Engineers Club of St. Louis, Missouri ·3· Industrial Energy Consumers, and Education Plus.· Upon ·4· recredit of a rate change notice from the district, ·5· the rate commission is to recommend to the board of ·6· trustees pages in a wastewater, storm water or tax ·7· rate necessary to pay interest in principal falling ·8· due on bonds issued to finance assets of the district, ·9· cost of operation, and maintenance, and such amounts 10· as may be required to cover emergencies and 11· anticipated delinquencies.· Further, any change in a 12· rate recommended to the board of trustees by the rate 13· commission is to be accompanied by a statement that 14· the proposed rate change is consistent with 15· constitutional statutory or common law as amended from 16· time to time enhances the district's ability to 17· provide adequate sewer and drainage systems, and 18· facilities or related services is consistent with and 19· not in violation of any covenant or provision relating 20· to any outstanding bonds or indebtedness of the 21· district, does not impair the ability of the district 22· to comply with applicable federal or state laws or 23· regulations as amended from time to time, and 24· considers the financial impact on all classes of 25· ratepayers in determining a fair and reasonable Page 6 ·1· burden.· The rate commission received a rate change ·2· notice from the district on March 4th -- March 24th, ·3· 2023.· Under the district's charter plan, the rate ·4· commission must on or before September 5th, 2023, ·5· issue its report on the proposed rate change notice to ·6· the board of trustees of the district.· Under ·7· procedural rules adopted by the rate commission, on ·8· March 24th, 2023, any person affected by the rate ·9· change proposal had an opportunity to submit an 10· application to intervene in these proceedings no later 11· than April 14th, 2023.· The rate commission received 12· no applications to intervene by this deadline, 13· however, it did receive an application to intervene 14· out of time by the Missouri Industrial Engineer 15· Consumers on May 10th, 2023.· On May 30th, 2023, the 16· rate commission heard arguments in support and against 17· MIEC's application to intervene out of time.· After 18· discussion, the commission approved the application to 19· intervene with the condition that MIEC shall not be 20· permitted to submit testimony or make discovery 21· requests.· Since March 24th, 2023, the rate commission 22· has received testimony from district staff and the 23· rate consultant.· The parties have also engaged in 24· discovery requests.· Technical conferences were held 25· on April 26th, 2023, May 30th, 2023, and July 10th, Page 7 ·1· 2023, where the participants and the rate commission ·2· were given an opportunity to ask questions of those ·3· submitting testimony.· The charter plan of the ·4· Metropolitan St. Louis Sewer District, and the ·5· operational rules and procedural schedule of the rate ·6· commission of the Metropolitan St. Louis Sewer ·7· District provide for a prehearing conference to ·8· identify, define, resolve or settle the issues raised ·9· by the prepared testimony and to ensure orderly and 10· expeditious proceedings.· In the event participants 11· are able to resolve or settle any issue or issues 12· raised in the prepared testimony, such participants 13· shall also include as part of the prehearing 14· conference report a joint recommendation describing 15· each issue, the recommended resolution of the issue, 16· and the rationale, therefore.· The rate commission is 17· interested in the views of participants to the extent 18· to which the district's rate change proposal or any 19· alternative proposed by the participants meet or fails 20· to meet the criteria or factors for recommendation 21· contained in the charter plan.· To that end, and 22· without requiring any participant to act in a 23· particular manner, each participant has requested to 24· make a short oral presentation of the participant's 25· respective position.· The parties may also submit a Page 8 ·1· short written summary of the presentation if desired. ·2· The commission's procedural schedule provides that ·3· each participant of the prehearing conference shall ·4· submit a prehearing conference report describing the ·5· issues raised by the prepared testimony together with ·6· a brief description of such participants' position, if ·7· any, on each issue and the rationale, therefore.· The ·8· rate commission has established a public hearing ·9· session for the participants to be held on August 7th, 10· 2023, at 9:00 a.m. at the district offices.· The 11· purpose of this public hearing session will include 12· permitting ratepayers to testify, receiving into 13· evidence any prepared testimony previously submitted 14· to the commission, subject to any valid objections 15· together with discovery requests, discovery responses, 16· and transcripts of the technical conferences, 17· permitting the commission members to ask questions 18· regarding any issue addressed by the prepared 19· testimony or any other element of the proposed rate 20· change and permitting closing statements by the 21· district and legal counsel for the rate commission. 22· In preparation for the August 7th, 2023 hearing, the 23· district will distribute the current list of exhibits 24· to all parties by August 4th, 2023.· Who is here on 25· behalf of the Metropolitan St. Louis Sewer District. Page 9 ·1· · · · · · · SUSAN MEYERS:· Susan Meyers. ·2· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Also present are Pamela Moyan ·3· (phonetic) of Burns & McDonnell.· And Anna White of ·4· Black and Veech Consultants to the rate commission. ·5· And Lisa Stump and Brian Malone of Lashly and Baer, ·6· legal counsel to the rate commission.· Are there any ·7· procedural matters?· Hearing none, Ms. Meyers -- ·8· pardon, Mr. -- Mr. Palens? ·9· · · · · · · (Inaudible conversation.) 10· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Mr. Gaas. 11· · · · · · · MR. GAAS:· It's August 1st, performance. 12· We've been through that this morning, so. 13· · · · · · · (Inaudible conversation.) 14· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· And you do win an award for 15· being the first one to catch that.· Any other 16· procedural matters?· There being no further procedural 17· matters, Ms. Meyers, would you like to address the 18· rate commission on behalf of the district? 19· · · · · · · SUSAN MEYERS:· Yes, I would. 20· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· I would assume -- 21· · · · · · · SUSAN MEYERS:· Do you want me to come -- 22· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Yeah, why don't you come up to 23· the front here. 24· · · · · · · SUSAN MEYERS:· (Inaudible) my body. 25· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· All (inaudible). Page 10 ·1· · · · · · · SUSAN MEYERS:· This on?· Good afternoon, ·2· everyone.· My name is Susan Meyers, and I am the ·3· general counsel for the Metropolitan St. Louis Sewer ·4· District.· I will provide the district summary ·5· statement regarding the proceedings to date.· The ·6· district's rate change proposal submitted to you on ·7· March 24th, 2023, proposes wastewater rates for fiscal ·8· year 2025 through fiscal year 2028, and a proposed ·9· plan to fund storm water capital improvements to help 10· mitigate flooding and erosion within our district. 11· The district developed the proposal to meet all five 12· criteria outlined in Section 7.270 of the MSD charter 13· plan.· You will see that this is supported by the 14· record including the testimony of district witnesses, 15· rate commission witnesses, and exhibits.· Without 16· reiterating all five criteria, I'd like to use this 17· opportunity to remind the commission that the fifth 18· criteria requires the financial impact on all classes 19· of ratepayers be considered in determining a fair and 20· reasonable burden.· The proposal before you does just 21· that.· The rate commission is tasked with providing a 22· statement -- no.· Excuse me.· The rate commission is 23· tasked with providing a recommendation to the board of 24· trustees.· This recommendation must be accompanied by 25· a statement that the proposed rate change meets all Page 11 ·1· the criteria.· We feel you have all the evidence ·2· needed to support such a statement.· Based upon the ·3· evidence previously presented, there seems to be a few ·4· topics that warrant further discussion.· Topic number ·5· one, extra strength surcharge rates.· Extra strength ·6· surcharge rates are the rates applied to monitored ·7· nonresidential customers to generate extra strength ·8· pollution.· This extra strength pollution requires ·9· additional resources and costs to treat to safe 10· levels.· To account for these extra costs, the 11· district applies an extra strength surcharge rate to 12· those nonresidential entities that produce such a 13· waste.· The rates proposed by the district are based 14· on what it will cost the district to treat such a 15· waste.· Ms. Lamoy, the rate commission consultant 16· proposes phasing in the proposed increases to the 17· extra strength surcharge rates over a period of at 18· least two years.· If the rate commission were to 19· recommend such a phased approach, it will cause other 20· customers not subject to those extra strength 21· surcharges including residential customers to pay more 22· and subsidize those customers actually generating the 23· extra strength pollution.· The impact of the proposed 24· phase in would shift approximately $1.2 million in 25· total over two years from extra strength surcharges to Page 12 ·1· all customers of which $750,000 would be charged to ·2· residential customers.· Topic 2.· Storm water grant ·3· program.· We've heard a lot of discussion regarding ·4· the storm water grant program.· The storm water grant ·5· program is part of the overall expenditure model ·6· proposed in the storm water capital portion of the ·7· rate proposal.· That model consists of 50 percent of ·8· all revenues being used by MSD, district wide, on a ·9· benefit cost prioritization model, 10 percent being 10· used by MSD only in environmental justice areas on a 11· benefit cost prioritization model, 10 percent being 12· reserved for any important storm water initiative, not 13· addressed in the previous funding pots and 30 percent 14· being available to the municipalities as storm water 15· grants based on the relative populations of the 16· municipalities.· The allocation and methodology was a 17· policy directive by MSD's direct -- MSD's executive 18· director, developed with input by senior staff, to be 19· used as a basis for the storm water capital portion of 20· the rate proposal.· The 30 percent grant program is 21· proposed to distribute by population with a minimum 22· distribution of $30,000 per year to any individual 23· municipality.· MSD's experienced through the OMCI 24· municipal grant program demonstrates that $30,000 per 25· year is the needed amount to perform even the smallest Page 13 ·1· storm water initiative.· Municipalities will have the ·2· opportunity to notify MSD in they desire to accumulate ·3· funds over a couple of years to fund a larger project ·4· in the future.· Municipalities will also have the ·5· opportunity to pull funds for a storm water project ·6· that multiple municipalities find beneficial. A ·7· suggestion has been made that the amount of impervious ·8· area in a municipality also be a positive factor in ·9· determining the amount of grant per municipality. 10· We'd like to make two points here.· First, as MSD has 11· testified, population is a common method of 12· determining fund distribution for a program such as 13· this.· It also accomplishes MSD's goal to make the 14· funds available as directly as possible to the public 15· through their local elected officials.· Second, the 16· concept of providing additional funding to a 17· municipality because it has decided to allow more 18· impervious area than another municipality seems 19· contrary to the purpose of the program. A 20· municipality should not be allowed to obtain a larger 21· grant through the construction of more impervious 22· area.· There was also some discussion on the municipal 23· grant allocation chart provided by MSD in the rate 24· proposal.· MSD's development of that chart was based 25· on three objectives.· One, the distribution be driven Page 14 ·1· by population.· Two, a minimum annual grant of $30,000 ·2· be made available to all municipalities regardless of ·3· population.· And three, annual grant amounts should ·4· not be determined by the ever changing exact ·5· calculation by exact population.· But municipalities ·6· should be grouped with other municipalities of similar ·7· populations to accommodate the management of the ·8· program.· In discussions with some rate commissioners, ·9· MSD has indicated that they are very open to any 10· proposed changes in the municipal grant allocation 11· chart as long as the three objectives are stated -- as 12· stated above are met.· Exhibit 91 has been provided to 13· you in an e-mail yesterday afternoon as an example for 14· your review.· It indicates how Appendix 8.18 of the 15· rate change proposal document, Exhibit MSD 1, may be 16· revised and still meet the three objectives discussed 17· earlier.· Exhibit MSD 91 provides a maximum annual 18· grant and a more refined distribution range grouping. 19· As I previously stated, Exhibit MSD 91 is being 20· provided as an example.· And MSD staff will continue 21· to be open to any proposed changes provided our 22· initial objectives are met.· Another idea brought 23· forward through the rate commission was to make the 24· grant awards based on a -- on a competitive selection 25· process.· While MSD's position is that the grant Page 15 ·1· program coming from the 30 percent municipal grant pot ·2· needs to be equally distributed by population, we do ·3· see an opportunity to add additional municipal grant ·4· awards through a competitive grant program using part ·5· of the 10 percent pot for regional initiatives.· Using ·6· the example of the municipal league serving as the ·7· partner to provide community feedback on how these ·8· funds are spent, they could easily be used to help ·9· determine if a competitive awards process was desired 10· by the municipal community as a whole, the desired 11· level of funding for that program and the perimeters 12· to be used in a competitive selection process.· MSD 13· will -- would commit to making sure this idea is 14· presented for consideration.· Finally, MSD would like 15· to address the status and plans for the seven active 16· OMCI taxing subdistricts.· These subdistricts have 17· been in existence for 50 to 60 years depending on the 18· subdistrict.· As a result of the negative storm water 19· capital vote in 2019, MSD developed a plan to allow 20· 50 percent of the revenues collected within each 21· subdistrict to be available to the individual 22· municipalities, based on their financial contribution 23· to annual revenues.· MSD staff believed this was a 24· fair way to distribute funds since municipalities 25· within an individual subdistrict are often financially Page 16 ·1· and economically very similar to each other.· That ·2· would no longer apply with the proposed district wide ·3· program.· A rate commissioner calculated the 19 ·4· municipalities would have smaller annual grants ·5· available to them under the current proposal.· If that ·6· number is correct, then 33 municipalities will have a ·7· greater distribution.· The point is that these are ·8· simply two different programs with different goals and ·9· different overall benefit.· That being said, MSD does 10· plan on setting the taxes on the active subdistricts 11· to zero per calendar year 2025 when the new proposed 12· program would go into effect if approved.· As part of 13· the process, MSD is a -- is again willing to poll the 14· elected municipal officials in the active subdistricts 15· to see if a large majority of those municipalities in 16· any of the subdistricts would like to propose some 17· level of continued OMCI taxing.· The proposal could be 18· for any amount of taxing up to the regulatory limit 19· and for any purpose could be municipal grants or MSD 20· capital projects or both.· Any proposal with 21· sufficient support would be brought by staff to the 22· MSD board of trustees for consideration.· To summarize 23· the storm water rate, the allocation and the 24· methodology being proposed by the district is fair and 25· reasonable across the district for all classes of Page 17 ·1· ratepayers.· Topic 3.· Storm water credit program.· We ·2· have had several discussions regarding the district's ·3· initial decision not to propose credits for storm ·4· water best management practices with its storm water ·5· proposal.· Several factors were considered when making ·6· this decision.· Those factors are specifically ·7· outlined in the surrebuttal testimony of Rich ·8· Underford, Exhibit MSD 84-A.· MSD realizes that ·9· there's public support for storm water quality and 10· storm water best management practices as -- as an 11· approach to introduce nature into the built 12· environment to assist in storm water management.· This 13· may justify the implementation of a credit program for 14· storm water best management practices when not, 15· otherwise, required by regulations.· Therefore, MSD 16· supports a recommendation of a 50 percent credit 17· program of captured impervious area, 40 retention 18· basins managing storm water quality when size for the 19· MSD regulatory volume criteria.· This program would 20· apply to nonresidential customers only.· The 21· 50 percent credit is appropriate in that the 22· impervious area still exists and will impact 23· downstream drainage but with the benefit of detention. 24· We would also like to reiterate other ways that MSD 25· currently provides incentives to implement green Page 18 ·1· practices.· For residential customers, the district ·2· has available a small grant landscaping program that ·3· allows for the reimbursement of up to $3,000 for ·4· constructed green infrastructure improvements or best ·5· management practices.· Detailed information on the ·6· small grant program is available on the project MSD ·7· project clear website.· Although not part of the ·8· current small grant program or of this rate proposal, ·9· the district will adjust this program to allow for 10· multiple homes to pull grants for a more regional best 11· management practice approach.· Again, providing that 12· the small grant proposal is not required to meet 13· current regulations.· For nonresidential customers 14· constructed, green infrastructure or best management 15· practices that are designed and constructed to be 16· pervious will be 100 percent excluded from the 17· billable impervious area.· Examples of this include 18· green roofs and pervious payment.· This concludes the 19· district's official summary statement.· A copy of this 20· statement will be filed as Exhibit MSD 90.· Thank you 21· very much. 22· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Thank you, Ms. Meyers. 23· Questions from any of the rate commissioners? 24· Mr. Perkins. 25· · · · · · · MR. PERKINS:· (Inaudible) municipalities Page 19 ·1· (inaudible) percent of the (inaudible). ·2· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· So the process would be ·3· the same as before, so we would take recommendations ·4· and whether or not the individual municipalities, OMCI ·5· was willing to do that, and what their ideas were for ·6· expenditure.· MSD would not be looking to necessarily ·7· spend projects on MSD projects.· If the municipalities ·8· as an example all said, we'd like for you to bill a 3¢ ·9· property tax, maintain that, and make it all municipal 10· grants, we would be -- staff would be accepting to the 11· idea of recommending that for board of trustees.· It 12· can be any mix of the two expenditures either 13· (inaudible) projects or grants.· Staff would be -- and 14· this is all -- this is all assuming that this passes 15· in April, and if that does, then we'd be open to 16· either of those. 17· · · · · · · (Inaudible conversation.) 18· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· And the assessed value for tax 19· purposes, yes. 20· · · · · · · (Inaudible conversation.) 21· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· (Inaudible) St. Louis 22· county (inaudible) based on (inaudible). 23· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· Yeah.· So some of the 24· thoughts we put into it, understand those changes also 25· affect the two taxes that are in place as well as all Page 20 ·1· OMCI taxes, and so the only thing I think I place on ·2· that -- I don't know if you're concerned about the ·3· amount of money being collected, because of that ·4· difference, obviously, we can't find the average sale ·5· price.· We can't use that, but we go through the ·6· process every year that we set taxes.· We have to ·7· submit or every two years, one or two years, we have ·8· to submit taxes to the state, and there is a Hancock ·9· control how much of that can go up.· These would 10· obviously be governed by that.· If your concern is, 11· are we all of a sudden going to be collecting lots of 12· money while, obviously, the amount, you know, we're 13· starting at 7.45 cents, I don't doubt the two years 14· later will be well below 7.45 cents because of a 15· Hancock restriction on increased property values.· So 16· it'll still be governed by that, Mark, if that's 17· answering your question.· Other than -- you're right, 18· the communication needs to be -- it's on your property 19· tax bill, take a look at that, it's the assessed value 20· of your property.· I agree, we need to do that. 21· Fortunately, there is some comparisons since we show 22· up at least once and sometimes twice on property tax 23· bills, now we can make a little bit of a comparison 24· there, but yeah, I agree that is something we need to 25· make sure we communicate. Page 21 ·1· · · · · · · SUSAN MEYERS:· Anyone needs copies, I have ·2· (inaudible). ·3· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· My first question is to ·4· clarify that if the city grows in population to the ·5· next grouping -- and first of all, I'm going to assume ·6· this is based on -- on the -- the census completed ·7· every 10 years, city grows into the next, it will ·8· be -- it'll receive that higher allocation on the next ·9· census; is that correct? 10· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· Yes, we would have to 11· do it 10 years from now. 12· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· Okay. 13· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· If there was a 14· significant change. 15· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· And I appreciate the 16· additional groupings.· I think this is an improvement, 17· to provide more and more equitable distribution of the 18· funds, and I -- I do agree with the need to have a -- 19· a cap, but also a floor because of the -- the reasons 20· that Ms. Meyers stated about having enough for a -- 21· for a basic storm water project.· I think my concern, 22· though, is that I believe that the proposed allocation 23· for the very small cities of under 2,000 population 24· could be reviewed further, and that's because while 25· you -- let's take an example.· Crystal Lake Park City Page 22 ·1· of, you know, 500 population, it's going to receive ·2· $60 per capita every single year.· I'm not sure that a ·3· city of that size is going to have -- is necessarily ·4· going to have the need for projects or projects every ·5· single year and -- and that also is a pretty ·6· significant per capita rate.· So my thought on the ·7· very small cities would be to consider a scaling those ·8· grants back to every two or three years while keeping ·9· that minimum amount of -- of $30,000.· (Inaudible) 10· also sure that those funds can be spread around to the 11· other municipalities. 12· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· Mr. (Inaudible) can I 13· just brief comment on that? 14· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Yeah. 15· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· If the rate commission 16· wants to propose something to MSD -- and I'm talking 17· to one rate commissioner, you want to propose 18· something different, we can be very flexible on what 19· this is.· Good point.· We'd like to see what it is, 20· though.· We did this just as an example. 21· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Uh-huh. 22· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· To -- if I read the 23· process of procedure right, kind of this discussion 24· through the next meeting is to see if we can work 25· differences out.· That's one of the reasons we Page 23 ·1· provided the sample document.· If there's something ·2· else the rate commission wants to propose, that in ·3· general stays within the lines of the thought that was ·4· laid out by Ms. Meyers, we certainly would be very ·5· receptive to discussing and see if we can come to a ·6· final conclusion.· So there have been no commitments ·7· made outside of what we've gotten from public input. ·8· So that's the reason we offer this as kind of a draft ·9· alternative as another example to do it.· So MSD 10· staff, I don't know if the process allows for it, but 11· if there's some kind of discussion about, hey, can we 12· get to an agreement point, it doesn't have to be 13· either one of the two we've shown.· It can be 14· something different. 15· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· Thank you. 16· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Thank you, Mr. Perkins.· Other 17· questions?· Mr. Gaas? 18· · · · · · · MR. GAAS:· Question on Exhibit 91, you have 19· steps where the funding goes up first three 20· categories.· I think it's like $10,000, it's 21· increasing, and then the next several, it's 20,000, 22· and then you -- when you're in the communities 23· of 10,000 to 15,000, it's $150,000 annually, and then 24· the next segment jumps 50,000 to 200,000, so I just -- 25· what was the thinking behind the increase in funding Page 24 ·1· in the different categories?· I mean, it's constant ·2· for A certain set, then it goes up.· It seems like the ·3· steps increase, you know, more as you get up in ·4· population, was -- and so I want to know what the ·5· thinking was as to why you chose those funding levels ·6· as you went up, because that'll help us as we talk ·7· about this example, and if I heard -- maybe I misheard ·8· this, but I thought there was some comment about the ·9· 30,000 was chosen as a minimum because that's a -- a 10· difficult storm water amount funding for funding a 11· storm water project.· You need at least 30,000 to 12· really do any good; is that fair? 13· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· So in general, from 14· what our experience is, if you want to do a storm 15· water study, if you want to take care of eliminating 16· the -- the bird baths in a curb, if you want to add 17· some inlets somewhere, it seems like that's about the 18· money, about the time you design, and build it, and go 19· through everything else, that's an approximate number 20· we use.· If there's a suggestion, it would be 21· something less.· We'll consider that.· That's been our 22· experience.· There's not -- there's not a eight-page 23· study to say, therefore, it's $30,000.· And somewhat 24· the same the way it was broken down.· It was, you 25· know, a little bit of consideration, but kind of the Page 25 ·1· eye test of, hey, where's some reasonable places to ·2· cut these amounts off based on population, so that's ·3· about -- Rich, I'm right, that is about as much as ·4· detail as we went in.· So that's how it was laid out, ·5· and again, I just expressed we're open to other ·6· cut-off points, other ways of doing it, short of ·7· calculating how much each person should get and ·8· therefore, giving each city the amount based on the ·9· number of people they have in the city.· We don't want 10· to do that. 11· · · · · · · MR. GAAS:· Right.· But if I'm out 12· (inaudible) 15 people can tell you that (inaudible) 13· $50,000, so I -- is there -- if -- this may not be 14· practical either, but if there's a -- if $30,000 is 15· kind of like you need that for a storm water project, 16· would it make more sense instead of having these, you 17· know, you go for 100 to 150 to 200, that you do it by, 18· you know, 30,000 to 60 -- next 160,000, because that's 19· two projects, and so you -- you make the adjustments 20· based on what you think a typical storm water might 21· cost.· Would that be sensible or not? 22· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· Well, a typical storm 23· water -- I -- it may be and I -- I don't mean to push 24· back, but I think if you guys have a better idea, 25· we're willing to hear it. Page 26 ·1· · · · · · · MR. GAAS:· No.· It's a question. ·2· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· Yeah. ·3· · · · · · · MR. GAAS:· I'm not criticizing -- ·4· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· So my answer is, yeah, ·5· that is another way of doing it.· I agree with you. ·6· · · · · · · MR. GAAS:· Okay.· That's all. ·7· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Thank you, Mr. Gaas.· Other ·8· questions?· Mr. Perkins? ·9· · · · · · · MR. PERKINS:· I have a follow up actually 10· on that.· Mr. Alser (phonetic) you just said a minute 11· ago that you -- you wouldn't want to simply distribute 12· the funds based on per capita.· I think it absolutely 13· makes sense to have a cap and a floor as we talked 14· about, but I guess I'm not sure why you don't just 15· distribute the funds other than that cap and the floor 16· based on a per capita rate.· And so, you know, you got 17· a situation like Ellisville which is 15 citizens 18· under -- under, you know, a threshold, you eliminate 19· that.· I'm just thinking about also from the public 20· standpoint or -- or other municipalities in looking at 21· the chart, and there's going to be winners and losers, 22· you know, as it -- as it currently is.· Some are going 23· to finish high (inaudible) and some are going to 24· finish low.· I'm just thinking about also public 25· acceptance. Page 27 ·1· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· So if the rate ·2· commission believes that there's a reasonably ·3· manageable way of doing that, we'd be willing to hear ·4· the proposal after you decided it's reasonably ·5· manageable. ·6· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· And these numbers are based on ·7· the most current census. ·8· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· Yeah.· It's the 2020 ·9· census.· The idea of -- I mean, our broad take at 10· this, it can always be adjusted is, we would 11· definitely adjust them every 10 years based on 12· whatever census numbers were. 13· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Any other questions for 14· Mr. Meyers or Mr. Holster?· Thank you. 15· · · · · · · SUSAN MEYERS:· Thank you. 16· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Mr. Malone, would you like to 17· address the rate commission as the rate commission's 18· legal counsel? 19· · · · · · · MR. MALONE:· Good afternoon.· As the rate 20· commission's legal counsel, our role is primarily to 21· assist you with preparing a report on the district's 22· rate change proposals for storm water and wastewater. 23· The purpose of this report is to provide the district 24· board of trustees with a report as to whether the rate 25· change proposal complies with the three criteria and Page 28 ·1· the five factors in the charter for consideration of ·2· rate change proposals.· The operational rules and ·3· procedural schedule that you have adopted provide that ·4· the purpose of this conference is to identify issues ·5· that have been raised in the prepared testimony.· We ·6· intend to address the topics we discussed today in ·7· greater depth in the report that will be filing next ·8· week.· So we've identified certain issues that affect ·9· the charter criteria and factors and the prepared 10· testimony and technical conferences thus far, some of 11· which have already been addressed by Ms. Meyers 12· earlier today.· With regard to wastewater, the first 13· issue that we identified related to the extra strength 14· surcharge whether it's appropriate to phase those in 15· or go directly to cost of service, as you know, the 16· rate commission's consultant has opined that there is 17· a risk of rate shock to -- if those were not to be 18· phased in, the commission will need to consider 19· whether that's outweighed by the -- I guess for you to 20· not phase them in, that would result in other classes 21· of customers subsidizing the people to whom extra 22· strength surcharges are applicable.· Regarding 23· wastewater, the next topic we identified relates to 24· the fluidized bed incinerator projects whether the 25· cost of those projects is appropriate in light of the Page 29 ·1· fact that those are not necessarily required under the ·2· consent decree, whether the timing is appropriate for ·3· this rate cycle, whether the timeline for construction ·4· of those projects is appropriate, and whether there ·5· may be additional methods to address biosolids such as ·6· thermal hydrolysis or some other method.· Moving onto ·7· storm water, first issue identified was specific storm ·8· water had to do with the adequacy of the municipal ·9· grant funding program, which we've already discussed 10· in some depth earlier today.· One of the -- this will 11· come up particularly in the charter criteria about 12· whether or not the municipal grant program results in 13· a fair and reasonable burden or whether it considers 14· all classes of ratepayers in determining a fair and 15· reasonable burden especially with regard to the OMCI 16· districts which may be presently receiving more 17· revenue than they would receive under the proposed 18· grant program.· The next topic we identified is the 19· credit program which, again, Ms. Meyers discussed 20· earlier.· Mr. (Inaudible) in his prepared testimony 21· stated that the district would support a 50 percent 22· credit for captured impervious area for retention 23· basins on nonresidential property.· There had been 24· discussion in a previous technical conference about 25· whether it would be appropriate to have a similar Page 30 ·1· credit program for subdivisions and other large ·2· residential developments that now have outdated -- ·3· outdated infrastructure that need to be updated. ·4· Another issue under storm water that came up in the ·5· testimony and technical conferences related to the ·6· assessment of a storm water impervious area charge to ·7· vacant nonresidential property, there was discussion ·8· about whether the equitable concerns associated with ·9· not assessing vacant, nonresidential property are 10· outweighed by the administrative burdens that would be 11· associated with assessing such a charge.· And the 12· remaining topics really relate to storm water and 13· wastewater.· We expect to write in our report about 14· the -- with regard to the charter criteria about 15· whether the rate change proposal is consistent with 16· constitutional statutory and common law, the legality 17· of the proposed rate structure, the way -- under the 18· wastewater side, this is fairly clear cut.· The 19· district is not proposing to change the methodology 20· for wastewater rates that they've used since the 21· Missouri growth case which found that the agencies 22· method of setting rates was appropriate and 23· permissible.· The charter gives the district pretty 24· clear authority to charge rates, rentals, and other 25· charges.· Similarly, on residential storm water, the Page 31 ·1· charter is pretty clear that they can assess an ad ·2· valorem property tax to support the district's ·3· purposes and that the district has the authority to ·4· regulate storm water within the district.· When you ·5· get to the nonresidential storm water side, there is, ·6· I guess, a legality and fairness issue with the ·7· nonresidential impervious area charge.· As we know, ·8· the district doesn't presently assess an impervious ·9· area charge.· This would be something new.· Although, 10· it has been a topic of recent rate change proposals 11· that the commission has considered in previous years, 12· the district is proposing to seek voter approval for 13· this impervious area charge for nonresidential 14· property which removes the issue that resulted in the 15· adverse judgment in this wide case.· The -- the -- 16· impervious area charge on nonresidential property 17· would be subject to -- it would be charged on 18· government property as well as nonprofit property.· If 19· there was -- if the impervious area charge were 20· challenged as being a tax, rather than a charge, there 21· is a risk that governmental entities or non-profits 22· would be exempt from the impervious area charge for 23· nonresidential property.· The impervious areas -- the 24· impervious area charge also raises some fairness and 25· legal issues, first of all, for having a different Page 32 ·1· mechanism for raising revenue for storm water based on ·2· residential or nonresidential properties, for ·3· instance, vacant residential properties going to pay ·4· the tax making non-vacant residential would not. ·5· Residential properties with large amounts of ·6· impervious area will pay the tax but -- or they're ·7· going to pay -- based on their assessed value rather ·8· than their impervious area of nonresidential property ·9· with less impervious area may end up paying more than 10· a large residential property with a lot of impervious 11· area.· Nonprofit residential properties is not going 12· to pay the tax but nonprofit commercial property is 13· going to be subject to the impervious area charge as 14· proposed.· We also discussed during the testimony the 15· Missouri Statute 204.700.· This has been discussed in 16· previous rate change proposals that -- just to 17· paraphrase it, it basically says that the district 18· shall not assess a storm water charge to district -- 19· or to residential property that's not connected to the 20· public sewer system.· The district has raised several 21· arguments that the statute is invalid on a couple of 22· different grounds, and those have been considered in 23· previous rate change proposals as well.· We'll plan to 24· discuss that in greater depth in our report, so those 25· are the main issues we intend to focus on in the Page 33 ·1· prehearing conference that we'll be filing next week. ·2· I will be happy to answer any questions you might ·3· have. ·4· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Thank you, Mr. Malone. ·5· Questions?· Comments?· Thank you, Mr. Malone. ·6· · · · · · · MR. MALONE:· Thank you. ·7· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· I have one other matter before ·8· we adjourn.· I see that Celestine Dotson has joined us ·9· online.· Celestine, just like to welcome you to the 10· rate commission.· Appreciate your willingness to 11· serve.· I know that at some point soon you'll need to 12· be sworn in.· I believe that needs -- needs to occur 13· in person; am I correct, that we probably need to 14· (inaudible) in person or what am I hearing? 15· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· We have done it -- we 16· have done it like this before, remotely, if you prefer 17· it in person, we can -- 18· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Well, if Celestine is willing to 19· be sworn in remotely, then -- is that acceptable with 20· you, Ms. Dotson. 21· · · · · · · CELESTINE DOTSON:· It is.· That's fine. 22· Whenever, you know, you would prefer in terms of your 23· rules and requirements, I can -- I'm not too far from 24· MSD, my office location, so I can do either in person 25· or I'm certainly sitting here right now so we can do Page 34 ·1· it online. ·2· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· I think we'll proceed right now, ·3· so that we (inaudible) so let's go ahead. ·4· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· Okay.· Ms. Dotson, I ·5· know that you received the e-mail that I sent you just ·6· a little bit ago.· You want to pull that up.· It'll be ·7· a little bit easier.· Okay. ·8· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· You need to unmute.· There you ·9· go.· Can you unmute her? 10· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· I think when you 11· unplugged your phone, we lost your voice. 12· · · · · · · CELESTINE DOTSON:· Do you have me? 13· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· Yes. 14· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Yes.· There you go. 15· · · · · · · CELESTINE DOTSON:· Okay. 16· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· All right.· So let's do 17· it this way.· If you will raise your right hand, I 18· will go through the oath, that you just repeat after 19· me.· Easiest if you just read off with what we have; 20· okay?· Thank you. 21· · · · · · · CELESTINE DOTSON:· Okay. 22· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· I, state your name. 23· · · · · · · CELESTINE DOTSON:· I, Celeste Dotson. 24· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· Being duly sworn upon 25· my oath. Page 35 ·1· · · · · · · CELESTINE DOTSON:· Being duly sworn upon my ·2· oath. ·3· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· State that I have all ·4· the qualifications, and I'm not subject to any of the ·5· disqualifications. ·6· · · · · · · CELESTINE DOTSON:· State that I have all ·7· the qualifications, and I'm not subject to any of the ·8· disqualifications. ·9· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· Named in the plan of 10· the Metropolitan St. Louis Sewer District. 11· · · · · · · CELESTINE DOTSON:· Named in the plan of the 12· Metropolitan St. Louis Sewer District. 13· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· Of rate commission 14· delegate of said district. 15· · · · · · · CELESTINE DOTSON:· For rate commission 16· delegate of said district. 17· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· That I will support the 18· Constitution of the United States and of this state. 19· · · · · · · CELESTINE DOTSON:· That I will support the 20· Constitution of the United States and this state. 21· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· And the plan and 22· ordinances of said district. 23· · · · · · · CELESTINE DOTSON:· And the plan and 24· ordinances of said district. 25· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· And that I do not and Page 36 ·1· will not belong to any organization that seeks to ·2· overthrow the government of the United States. ·3· · · · · · · CELESTINE DOTSON:· And that I -- ·4· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Ms. Dotson. ·5· · · · · · · CELESTINE DOTSON:· -- overthrow the ·6· government of the United States. ·7· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· That I will be ·8· influenced only by the consideration of fitness in the ·9· appointment, promotion, demotion, suspension or 10· discharge of officers or employees. 11· · · · · · · CELESTINE DOTSON:· That -- in the 12· appointment, promotion, demotion, suspension or 13· discharge of officers or employees. 14· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· And that I will demean 15· myself faithfully in office. 16· · · · · · · CELESTINE DOTSON:· And that I will -- 17· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· All right.· Thank you, 18· Ms. Dotson, for joining us today and for taking the 19· oath.· If you will sign that form and e-mail it back 20· to me, you will be official. 21· · · · · · · CELESTINE DOTSON:· All right.· I certainly 22· will. 23· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· Congratulations. 24· · · · · · · CELESTINE DOTSON:· Do you -- 25· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Welcome aboard, Ms. Dotson.· Go Page 37 ·1· ahead.· I'm sorry, you're cutting out a little bit on ·2· your sound.· Go ahead. ·3· · · · · · · CELESTINE DOTSON:· So. ·4· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· I'm sorry, your voice keeps ·5· cutting out. ·6· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· We keep losing you. ·7· Okay.· You can e-mail me with questions or give me a ·8· call.· I'll send you my phone number in -- in -- and ·9· we'll work it out. 10· · · · · · · CELESTINE DOTSON:· All right. 11· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· Thank you. 12· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Thank you.· I think there's one 13· other matter before we adjourn.· Mr. (Inaudible). 14· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· Yes.· There is a 15· modification to the budget of the communications 16· committee.· I think that has been disseminated to 17· other members of the commission.· We -- it does not 18· involve a change in overall budget to communications, 19· it's just a -- a rearrangement of where the funds are 20· going to be spent.· That has been recommended by the 21· members of the communications committee. 22· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Ms. (Inaudible) do you have any 23· comments on that as far as what the details of that 24· are or how that's going to happen? 25· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:· We're doing the -- Page 38 ·1· the communication consultants because of principal ·2· spending and outreach have been able to significantly ·3· save costs in terms of the -- their budgetary items ·4· for expenses, and so they would like to -- and we ·5· support it completely use up to $7,500 of the direct ·6· expenses be used for advertisement of the public ·7· hearing on Monday so that we can, perhaps, get some ·8· more radio and get a larger turnout. ·9· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· And just to clarify, this is not 10· an additional expense. 11· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:· No. 12· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· This is a reallocation. 13· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:· Right. 14· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· That was previously approved. 15· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:· Yeah, yeah.· They 16· were able -- they didn't have any rental costs for the 17· rooms because of their good nature.· And no one really 18· took them up on the transportation services that they 19· were offering for people to get to the meetings so 20· that money which was allocated was no longer -- is not 21· being used, and we thought it would be better to try 22· to get some better outreach and get more people at the 23· meeting. 24· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Thank you. 25· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:· And we've discussed Page 39 ·1· it, and the committee all approved it, and it's not -- ·2· there's no change in the money.· There won't be no ·3· differences. ·4· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Thank you.· Are there any other ·5· matters before we adjourn?· Mr. Palens. ·6· · · · · · · MR. PALENS:· Chairman, just so we all ·7· understand the schedule, what (inaudible) need to be ·8· doing (inaudible) I'm a little unclear. ·9· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Excellent suggestion, 10· Mr. Palens. 11· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:· So on Monday morning 12· at 9:00 a.m. in this room, there will be the final 13· public hearing at which time you'll start with the 14· public like your other public hearings, and after that 15· part is completed, we will be submitting all the 16· exhibits that have been -- that are currently on the 17· website into evidence.· We will be giving -- each 18· party will be able to give a closing argument then and 19· that will be your final time to ask any questions of 20· the district or the intervenors during that time.· So 21· just keep that in mind, that that -- after Monday, 22· really, you will enter into a phase of deliberations, 23· which I believe starts on Monday, the 18th.· I'm 24· sorry, the 14th, and those meetings are scheduled to 25· start at 8:00 a.m., and I believe Monday, the 14th, Page 40 ·1· starts -- it's scheduled from 8:00 to 12:00, and then ·2· Tuesday, the 15th, it's scheduled from 12:00 to ·3· 5:00 -- 1:00 to 5:00.· Thank you.· And if it helps, ·4· I'm happy to send out -- do you want me to send out a ·5· separate -- an e-mail with just the deliberation ·6· meetings?· Okay.· Because, as you know, there's about ·7· two -- a week and sometimes a third, if needed, in ·8· order to get the report done by the end of the month. ·9· It's due September 5th.· For those of you that are 10· new, generally, we will start with -- kind of flush 11· out the issues first, start with what the report will 12· kind of look like on the basic three criteria and five 13· factors for wastewater and storm water, and so we'll 14· address those one by one.· The commission will make 15· its decision in substance.· Brian and I will go back 16· and write a section to support that.· That comes back 17· to you usually the next week for approval, so you will 18· see it all, and then ultimately, we'll have decisions 19· made by the commission on all the factors and 20· criteria, and then there will be a final report that 21· you all will review and give final approval before 22· September 5th. 23· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Questions for Ms. (Inaudible). 24· I believe that to further elaborate on that, our legal 25· counsel does prepare a series of questions. Page 41 ·1· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:· Uh-huh. ·2· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· And a series of votes to be ·3· taken on each of the factors, and each of the five ·4· criteria related to each component of the rate ·5· proposal, so there will be a series of opportunities ·6· to vote on all the different (inaudible). ·7· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:· And those meetings, ·8· for those of you, those are important because we do ·9· need to have a quorum for -- for each of the 10· deliberation meetings even though everyone will be -- 11· eventually vote on the final report, it's important 12· that a quorum be present, and you all be present in 13· person or online for as many of the deliberation 14· meetings as you possibly (inaudible) and I will -- 15· when I get back to the office, I'll send those out. 16· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· And again, for those of you who 17· are first timers, we have had minority reports 18· submitted in the past as part of our final report for 19· individual components of the final decision.· Any 20· other questions or comments?· Mr. G. 21· · · · · · · MR. G:· Mr. Chair, thank you.· Just to -- I 22· want to verify the time of the meeting on the 7th.· We 23· have that on the schedule as being at 9:30. 24· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:· I saw that, and I -- 25· I spoke with Stephanie about this earlier.· I think Page 42 ·1· it -- I don't know which was right, but I think we ·2· need to have it at 9:00, because that is -- in looking ·3· at what the communications people have put out for the ·4· public hearing, they put out 9:00 a.m., starting at ·5· (inaudible) so if that's okay, regardless, we should ·6· have it at 9:00. ·7· · · · · · · MR. G:· I think that works for us.· We just ·8· had a different schedule. ·9· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· I believe that the invitation 10· that was sent to the rate commissioners will need to 11· be modified because that does show up on my calendar 12· as 9:30. 13· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:· Can we do 9:00 14· because that's what -- 15· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· 9:00 o'clock is fine.· We will 16· make a special call to Mr. Mafood (phonetic) 17· (inaudible) okay.· Yeah.· Hopefully (inaudible) any 18· other matters before we adjourn?· That being the case, 19· we will adjourn until 9:00 a.m. on August 7th, 2023, 20· for the final public hearing session.· Please 21· remember, rate commissioners, that this is your final 22· opportunity to ask questions of the parties including 23· the district prior to deliberations.· Motion to 24· adjourn is in order. 25· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· So moved. Page 43 ·1· · · · · · · UNIDENTIFIED MALE:· Second. ·2· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Motion made and seconded.· All ·3· in favor signify by saying aye. ·4· · · · · · · (All said aye.) ·5· · · · · · · CHAIRMAN:· Opposed?· Thank you. ·6· · · · · · · (Inaudible conversation.) ·7· · · · · · · (Audio ended.) ·8 ·9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 44 ·1· · · · · · · · · CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER ·2 ·3· · · · · · · I, Melissa J. Lane, Certified Court ·4· Reporter of Missouri, Certified Shorthand Reporter of ·5· Illinois and Registered Professional Reporter, do ·6· hereby certify that I was asked to prepare a ·7· transcript of proceedings had in the above-mentioned ·8· case, which proceedings were held with no court ·9· reporter present utilizing an open microphone system 10· of preserving the record. 11· · · · · · · I further certify that the foregoing pages 12· constitute a true and accurate reproduction of the 13· proceedings as transcribed by me to the best of my 14· ability and may include inaudible sections or 15· misidentified speakers of said open microphone 16· recording. 17 18 19· · · · · · · · Melissa J. Lane, CCR, CSR, RPR 20 21 22 23 24· Date: August 9, 2023 25 LEXITAS' LEXITAS' LEXITAS' LEXITAS' LEXITAS' LEXITAS' LEXITAS' LEXITAS' LEXITAS' LEXITAS' LEXITAS' LEXITAS' LEXITAS'