HomeMy Public PortalAboutSweetapple Transcript 5/27/161
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA
Case No. 9:14-CV-81250-KAM
MARTIN E. O'BOYLE,
Plaintiff,
Vs.
ROBERT A. SWEETAPPLE and
MAYOR SCOTT MORGAN,
Defendants.
VA
DEPOSITION OF ROBERT SWEETAPPLE
Taken on behalf of the Plaintiff
VOLUME I
PAGES 1 - 175
DATE TAKEN: Friday, May 27, 2016
TIME: 9:00 a.m. - 7:00 p.m.
PLACE: THE OFFICE OF DAUGHTERS REPORTING
1515 North Federal Highway
Suite 300
Boca Raton, Florida 33432
Examination of the witness taken before:
LISA GREENWELL, Merit Reporter
DAUGHTERS REPORTING, INC.
934 North University Drive
Suite 224
Coral Springs, Florida 33071
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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APPEARANCE FOR THE PLAINTIFF
MARTIN E. O'BOYLE, pro se
1280 West Newport Center Drive
Deerfield Beach, Florida 33442
APPEARANCE FOR THE DEFENDANT
ROBERT A. SWEETAPPLE
JOSHUA A. GOLDSTEIN, Esquire
THE LAW OFFICES OF COLE, SCOTT & KISSANE, P.A.
1645 Palm Beach Lakes Boulevard
Second Floor
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401
APPEARANCE FOR THE DEFENDANT
Town of Gulf Stream
JEFFREY L. HOCHMAN, Esquire
THE LAW OFFICES OF JOHNSON, ANSELMO, MURDOCH,
BURKE PIPER & HOCHMAN, P.A.
2455 East Sunrise Boulevard
Suite 1000
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33304
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1
I -N -D -E -X
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DEPOSITION OF
ROBERT A. SWEETAPPLE
Page No.
4
5
Direct Examination by Mr. O'Boyle
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E -X -H -I -B -I -T -S
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Plaintiff
Page
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No. 1
Second Amended Complaint
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CERTIFIED QUESTIONS
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Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1 WHEREUPON,
2 ROBERT A. SWEETAPPLE
3 having been first duly sworn, testified upon his oath as
4 follows:
5 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.
6 DIRECT EXAMINATION
7 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
8 Q. Mr. Sweetapple, my name is Martin O'Boyle and I
9 am here today to take your deposition in a matter styled
10 Martin O'Boyle versus Robert Sweetapple and the Town of
11 Gulf Stream.
12 Are you familiar with that matter?
13 A. Only to have read the pleadings. I am not going
14 to discuss my work product with regard to that.
15 Q. And what work product would that be?
16 A. In terms of the lawsuit against me.
17 Q. Hm-hum.
18 A. Discussions with counsel and other matters that I
19 acquired into and investigative.
20 Q. Well, discussions with counsel I can certainly
21 understand that, assuming they were in connection with
22 the litigation.
23 But what other matters?
24 A. I'm sorry, what do you mean "what other matters"?
25 Q. Well, you said you're not going to discuss your
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1 work product?
2
A.
I'm not going to discuss anything I did with
3
regard
to my defense in that case.
4
Q.
That's fine. Then you raised the word "work
5
product".
6
A.
Um -hum.
7
Q.
What do you mean by "work product" in the context
8
of this litigation?
9
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to form.
10
THE WITNESS: I am not going to give you my
11
legal opinions here. I'm here to testify as to
12
facts.
13
If you have a fact question, but I am not
14
going to explain the law to you or give you my
15
legal opinion, I'm sorry.
16
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
17
Q.
What facts have led you to believe that whatever
18
it is that I've done, which -- in connection with what
19
you're
calling work product are, indeed, work product?
20
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to form.
21
THE WITNESS: Having attended law school and
22
practiced law school for 37 years.
23
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
24
Q.
So, that makes you infallible?
25
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Form.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1
THE WITNESS: Are you asking me my opinion
2
about infallibility?
3
BY MR.
O'B0YLE:
4
Q.
No. I'm asking you a question of fact.
5
A.
Well, I don't think that's a matter of fact. I
6
don't
think anyone's infallible.
7
You're trying to ask my opinion about things and
8
I'm here
to answer fact questions, Mr. O'Boyle.
9
Q.
Okay. It would be helpful if you would not read
10
my mind
and not tell me what I'm thinking. I'd
11
appreciate
that.
12
A.
I don't think that's what I'm doing. I'm here to
13
answer
your questions.
14
Q.
You just said I think, that many applies, but
15
we'll
move on. That's fine.
16
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Move to strike.
17
BY MR.
O'B0YLE:
18
Q.
Give me a little background, if you could, on
19
yourself?
20
A.
What would you like to know?
21
Q.
Your education. Let's start with high school?
22
A.
He attended Nova High School in Fort Lauderdale,
23
Florida.
24
Q.
And?
25
A.
What else would you like to know?
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1
Q.
I just said, let's start with your high school.
2
A.
I graduated from high school. Do you want to
3
know where I went to college?
4
Q.
That would be good.
5
A.
You attended Colgate University in Hamilton, New
6
York.
7
Q.
I see. Is that where you got your law degree?
8
A.
No, it isn't.
9
Q.
Okay. Can you share with me where you got your
10
law degree?
11
A.
Yes, sir. At the University of Florida.
12
Q.
I see. And are you an LLM?
13
A.
No.
14
Q.
Do you have a boat?
15
A.
Do I have a boat? That's a personal matter. But
16
yes, I
do have a boat. I don't know why you want to
17
know that,
but I do have a boat.
18
Q.
Okay. Mr. Sweetapple, why I want to know things
19
is my
work product.
20
A.
Well, I'm not going to --
21
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Hold on. Mr. O'Boyle, I
22
just remind you of the Judge's prior orders
23
regarding keeping things to the relative facts
24
and issues in this case.
25
I will certainly give you some leeway. I
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1 understand you're just trying to inquire as to
2 background information, etc.
3 But, you know, I am not sure you're
4 questioning my client on his boat has any
5 relevance to this proceedings.
6 MR. O'BOYLE: I understand you're not quite
7 sure and I appreciate that. And thank you for
8 the lesson.
9 BY MR. O'B0YLE:
10 Q. What's the name of the boat?
11 A. The large boat is called Alpha Dog.
12 Q. And I assume you have a smaller boat?
13 A. Yeah, doesn't have a name on it.
14 Q. I see. And I never heard that phrase Alpha Dog.
15 Is there some meaning to it?
16 A. I am not going to discuss my personal discussions
17 with friends, but that was the name I was given in
18 college, yes.
19 Q. You, personally, were called Alpha Dog?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. I see. Okay. And from there, you passed it onto
22 your boat, would that be correct?
23 A. Passed it onto my boat?
24 Q. Yeah. It went from you and now it's the name of
25 your boat, correct?
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1
A.
Well, that is the name on my boat, yes.
2
Q.
Okay. And what I was asking is, it went from you
3
to your boat, right?
4
In other words, it didn't make a stops in
5
between?
6
A.
I don't understand your question.
7
Q.
Okay.
8
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
9
MR. O'BOYLE: We'll just move on.
10
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
11
Q.
Where do you live?
12
A.
In Boca Raton.
13
Q.
How long have you lived there?
14
A.
Since 1986, so 30 years.
15
Q.
Same house?
16
A.
No.
17
Q.
Okay. Your present house, how long have you
18
lived
there?
19
A.
I would say ten -- ten -and -a -half years, almost
20
11 years.
21
Q.
And I assume that you lived there with your
22
family?
23
A.
I'm not going to discuss my personal life with
24
you, Mr.
O'Boyle. That's my private information.
25
You already asked me about my assets, my boat. I
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1 am not asking to discuss my assets or my private life
2 with you.
3
Q. What assets did I ask you about?
4
A. A boat.
You want to know if I own something and
5
I indulged you,
but I am not going to discuss with you
6
what I own, who
I live with, what I discussed with my
7
family.
6
I'm here
to answer your questions concerning your
9
allegations that
I somehow slandered you. That's why,
10
I'm here. I'm
happy to answer your questions.
11
MR.
O'BOYLE: Counselor, are you instructing
12
him not
to answer?
13
MR.
GOLDSTEIN: I'm not instructing him at
14
all.
15
MR.
O'BOYLE Okay. Would you instruct him to
16
answer,
please.
17
MR.
GOLDSTEIN: No, I will not instruct him
18
to answer.
I don't think you are --
19
MR.
O'BOYLE: I'm sorry.
20
MR.
GOLDSTEIN: You have no basis to engage
21
or inquire
into his personal life. This is a
22
suit regarding
a claim for slander.
23
MR.
O'BOYLE: So, you are instructing him
24
not to answer?
25
MR.
GOLDSTEIN: I am not instructing him
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1
regardless. I think he answered the
question.
2
MR. O'BOYLE: Okay.
3
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
4
Q.
Your daughter's a lawyer, correct?
5
A.
One of my daughters is a lawyer.
6
Q.
Right. Which one would that be?
7
A.
Berkley.
8
Q.
And her husband is a lawyer, correct?
9
A.
Yes, he is.
10
Q.
And his name is?
11
A.
David Vitale, Junior.
12
Q.
And what does Mr. Vitale do?
13
A.
What does he do?
14
Q.
Yes.
15
A.
I don't know what you mean by that.
16
Q.
Okay. Has he ever worked for you?
17
A.
He has worked for my law firm.
18
Q.
Okay. And how long did he work for your
law
19
firm?
20
A.
I would have to look at records, but
I would --
21
if I were
estimating -- I mean, in the range
of a year,
22
could
have been eight months, it could be 14
months, I'd
23
have to
look at the records.
24
Q.
That's good enough. And what did he
do at your
25
firm?
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object.
2 THE WITNESS: I am not going to discuss his
3 work product at my firm. I am not going to tell
4 you, Mr. O'Boyle, what my personnel do for
5 clients at my firm. I mean, he -- he worked for
6 the firm.
7 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Mr. O'Boyle, again, I said
8 that I would give you some leeway with inquiring
9 as to background information as to
10 Mr. Sweetapple, but starting to delve into
11 employees of the firm and family members of
12 Mr. Sweetapple is completely irrelevant to this
13 case.
14
And
I would remind you
of the Court's order
15
where it
was admonishing all
parties, and
16
including
your then counsel,
that he would not
17 allow for such an inquiry.
18
MR.
O'BOYLE:
Madam court
reporter, can you
19
certify
this on the
record; Mr.
Goldstein, you
20 are completely out of order there. I have no
21 speaking engagements as you are speaking
22 objections, as you know.
23 And you have no knowledge whatsoever about
24
Mr. Sweetapple's son-in-law.
As an
example,
25
would it be appropriate if he
worked
on this
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1
file? Would it then be appropriate for me to ask
2
about it?
3
MR. GOLDSTEIN: I am not sure what you mean
4
by "this file"?
5
MR. O'BOYLE: Well, I can show you billing
6
records.
7
MR. GOLDSTEIN: If these -- there's billing
8
records that I have that show that
9
Mr. Sweetapple's son-in-law worked on the present
10
case upon which we are here, I find that hard to
11
believe that you would have such billing records.
12
MR. O'BOYLE: Okay. It wouldn't necessarily
13
have to be on this case, of course. This case is
14
tied into other cases, is it not?
15
MR. GOLDSTEIN: I don't believe this is a
16
separately litigation, so I'm not sure why --
17
what you mean by "tied into other litigation".
18
MR. O'BOYLE: Well, there's a First
19
Amendment retaliation that Mr. Sweetapple was
20
involved in.
21
MR. GOLDSTEIN: I would disagree with that.
22
And I believe the Court has already dismissed any
23
such claim.
24
So, why don't we move a long, Mr. O'Boyle.
25
MR. O'BOYLE: Okay. Would you be kind
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1
enough to show me where the Court has dismissed
2
that claim?
3
MR. GOLDSTEIN: I would be happy to pull up
4
the Court's order granting the Motion to Dismiss.
5
It was entered in this matter with respect to my
6
client.
7
MR. O'BOYLE: And your client being
8
Mr. Sweetapple?
9
MR. GOLDSTEIN: That is correct.
10
MR. O'BOYLE: Okay. So, he's no longer a
11
Defendant, is that correct?
12
MR. GOLDSTEIN: He's no longer a Defendant
13
to any form of retaliation. There's one claim
14
currently pending versus my client and you're
15
fully aware of that what claim is.
16
MR. O'BOYLE: And what you're saying is that
17
I'm restricted from asking him about the First
18
Amendment retaliation claim?
19
MR. GOLDSTEIN: I am not --
20
MR. O'BOYLE: Is that incorrect?
21
MR. GOLDSTEIN: I am not saying that you're
22
restricted from anything. I'm just advising you
23
of the Court's order regarding discovery in this
24
matter and advising you that, although I'm giving
25
you some leeway, I don't think inquiring as to
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1
what specifics his son-in-law did or where his
2
son-in-law works is relevant to the claims
3
pending in this matter.
4
MR. O'BOYLE: So, are you willing now to
5
show me that order?
6
MR. GOLDSTEIN: If I had a computer here, I
7
would be more than happy to show you that order.
8
I don't have a copy of the order with me.
9
MR. O'BOYLE: Would you call your office and
10
have them fax it here?
11
MR. GOLDSTEIN: I am not going to call my
12
office and have them fax it here.
13
MR. O'BOYLE: So, I'm going to assume that
14
there's no such order.
15
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Assume as you'd like.
16
MR. O'BOYLE: I will.
17
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
18
Q.
Your son-in-law, has he worked on any of the Gulf
19
Stream
files?
20
A.
I am not going to disclose my staff's work
21
product
with regard to other cases that are pending in
22
my office.
23
Q.
Is he still with your office?
24
A.
He does not work with my office now.
25
Q.
So, it can't be in connection with work product
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1 in your office, mainly him, specifically, what he's
2 done?
3 A. You mean today?
4 Q. Today, yesterday, last week?
5 A. Well, when he was in my office, the work he has
6 done for my clients on pending cases is work product
7 done for those clients.
8 He has left my office. He works for another
9 firm. I do, occasionally, still call upon him to obtain
10 his legal opinions and to actually perform some work for
11 me, but the majority of the work product that he
12 performed for me was while he was actually employed by
13 the firm.
14 Q. On your billings, where you have billings and
15 explanations associated with David Vitale, are you
16 claiming work product to those?
17 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
18 THE WITNESS: Any work that was done by
19 people in my office on cases for clients, I am --
20 yes, I'm not going to go into the details of
21 their work product.
22 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
23 Q. On your bills you would have, and I am not
24 reciting how your bills are redacted, I'm just using
25 this by way of example, it will have Vitale's initials
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1 and then it will say worked on brief and the O'Hare
2 matter or whatever matter it is.
3 Is that something that you believe is work
4 product?
5 A. The bills?
6 Q. Yeah.
7 A. Our bills are delivered to the Town and I believe
8 they become a public record. The Town redacts what
9 it -- or the Town's attorneys, I guess, redact as they
10 deem appropriate.
11 But you're asking me for a legal conclusion, if I
12 believe it's work product? I am not here to debate or
13 to discuss what work product is with you. I'm just
14 giving you my understanding with regard to my office.
15 And I do not disclose what my staff or myself do for our
16 clients in working up their cases. And I do not discuss
17 their confidences with other people.
18 Q. If it's on your bill and it recites the name and
19 what he did, are you willing to disclose it and talk
20 about it?
21 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object. This is asked and
22 answered.
23 THE WITNESS: If you want to show me a bill,
24 I can read the bill just as well as you can. And
25 whatever's on the bill is on the bill.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1
As far as discussing or testifying as to
2
what lawyers talked about, what cases were
3
researched, what witnesses said when we
4
interviewed witnesses, I would not do that.
5
I don't think suing me for slander is an
6
invitation to take discovery with regard to how
7
we're defending dozens and dozens of cases that
8
are pending, not only against the Town of Gulf
9
Stream but you sued my firm and me.
10
So, I would not -- I would not disclose our
11
work product with regard to those cases or any
12
other clients.
13
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
14
Q.
Okay. We'll get back to that.
15
Have you ever seen an airplane banner?
16
A.
You mean flying in the sky?
17
Q.
Yes.
18
A.
Since I was a kid, I've seen airplane banner.
19
Q.
When was the last time you have seen one?
20
A.
I don't recall.
21
Q.
Okay. Have you seen any that you can recall in
22
the last five years?
23
A.
Not that I can recall what was said on them.
24
Q.
Okay. In general, can you recall what was said
25
and the exact words?
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
2 THE WITNESS: I generally recall being at
3 the beach couple years ago and seeing -- I don't
4 know if it was a banner or some type of
5 advertisement in the sky for a Bar or a
6 something, event. I don't know what it was.
7 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
8 Q. Have you ever filed any papers in connection
9 with -- I'm going to put them together, although I'm
10 just doing it for convenience, with regard to any
11 filings in O'Hare or O'Boyle cases, where you wrote
12 about the messages on plane banners?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. So, you do remember them?
15 A. Remember -- you asked me if I had seen any
16 banners.
17 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to form.
18 THE WITNESS: I hadn't seen those banners.
19 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
20 Q. Okay. How did you know about them?
21 A. I am not going to tell you my work product and
22 who described or who provided information, but I did not
23 see those banners.
24 MR. O'BOYLE: And counsel, I'm going to ask
25 you to instruct the witness to answer.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Disclose attorney/client
2 communications?
3 MR. O'BOYLE: That's not an attorney/client
4 communication. He has no knowledge that it's
5 attorney/client privilege.
6 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Nor do you. I'm not going
7 to instruct my client to answer. Ask another
8 question.
9 MR. O'BOYLE: Let's get the Magistrate on
10 the phone.
11 THE COURT REPORTER: Are we taking a recess?
12 MR. O'BOYLE: Yes.
13 (Thereupon, a recess was taken; after which
14 the following proceedings were had:)
15 MR. O'BOYLE: If you would for now, if you
16 would certify that question and answer, I would
17 appreciate it.
18 MR. HOCHMAN: I just want to ask for the
19 record, Mr. O'Boyle, you went off the record to
20 contact the Magistrate Judge. What was the
21 result of that effort?
22 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
23 Q. Mr. Sweetapple, you have been counsel for the
24 Town of Gulf Stream for how long?
25 A. Two years, more than two years.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1 Q. And what were you hired to do?
2 A. I am not comfortable disclosing to you my
3 discussions with the client as to my different roles
4 that I've played as counsel.
5 Q. If I showed you an article in the Coastal Star,
6 and Mr. Morgan confirmed it, would you then be
7 comfortable?
8 A. Comfortable doing what?
9 Q. Explaining what you do at the City, at the Town
10 of Gulf Stream?
11 A. I would never be comfortable discussing with a
12 non -client my communications with a client, and reading
13 a paper would not make me comfortable, I don't believe.
14 Q. Okay. Were you hired to prepare Wills and Truss
15 for the commissioners?
16 A. I am not going to disclose the scope and nature
17 of my communications with a client. I am not
18 comfortable doing that.
19 Q. Were you hired to obscure criminal behavior?
20 A. I am not going to disclose the -- I am not
21 comfortable telling you what I talked about with my
22 client.
23 Q. How much have you billed them so far?
24 A. I actually have no idea. I heard a number
25 Wednesday when I was in here that you used.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1
Q.
And?
2
A.
I have no idea how much I billed. I've never
3
gone to
look and total it.
4
Q.
Have you billed a million dollars, do you think?
5
A.
I have no idea.
6
Q.
But you could have billed a million dollars?
7
A.
I could have?
8
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
9
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
10
Q.
Yes. Would you have billed or is it out of the
11
question?
12
A.
I only billed for work I have done. I have no
13
idea what
the total is.
14
Q.
Okay. For the work that you've done that you
15
have billed
for, could those billings be $1 million or
16
more?
17
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
18
THE WITNESS: I am not comfortable
19
speculating.
20
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
21
Q.
Okay. Do you have an accounting system at your
22
office?
23
A.
An accounting system. I have an accountant. I
24
don't
know what a system is. If he has a system, I'm
25
sure there's
some system.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
23
1 Q. And do you ever sit down with your accountant or
2 whoever provides you with financial statements, telling
3 you income, expenses?
4 Have you ever heard of income and expenses?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Okay. And if you take the expenses and subtract
7 them from the income, you get the net proceeds or the
8 net income, do you agree with that?
9 A. As a mathematical or accounting principal?
10 Q. As a mathematical or accounting principal, yes?
11 A. And you're asking me if you take net -- would you
12 say that again? I'm not -- if you take net income and
13 deduct net expenses or you take income and you deduct
14 expenses you get net income.
15 Q. That's what I asked. Do you agree with that?
16 A. That's my general understanding of accounting.
17 If you're asking my opinion as to accounting, but I am
18 not an accountant.
19 Q. Okay. Do you ever review financial statements?
20 A. I review financial statements all the time. I do
21 quite a bit of commercial litigation.
22 Q. And do those financial statements reflect the
23 total billings of the firm within a specified period?
24 A. Are you talking now about my financial statements
25 or just financial statements in general?
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
24
1
Q.
Firm's.
2
A.
I am not comfortable disclosing to you my firm's
3
financial
information or discussions with accountants
4
which,
I believe, are privileged.
5
Q.
Aren't the billings to the Town of Gulf Stream
6
public
records?
7
A.
I think -- I think I already said that.
8
Q.
Okay. Then how are they privileged?
9
A.
You weren't asking about billings.
10
Q.
You said -- But anyway, rather than debate it,
11
you agree
that they're not privileged?
12
A.
What, sir.
13
Q.
The billings that you made to the Town of Gulf
14
Stream?
15
A.
The copies of the bills?
16
Q.
Doesn't have to be copies, could be originals?
17
A.
The originals of the bills you're asking me?
18
Q.
I'm asking you the bills. You have copies, you
19
could
have originals, you have whatever you want, but
20
you submit
bills -- Well, let me back up.
21
Do you submit bills to the Town of Gulf Stream
22
for what you say is your firm's -- your firm's services?
23
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Form.
24
THE WITNESS: My firm sends bills to the
25
Town of Gulf Stream. I'll answer it again, I did
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
25
1 this already earlier. I believe they are
2 reviewed by the Town's council and are redacted
3 as they deem appropriate and then they become a
4 public record.
5 I even believe they're placed somehow on the
6 internet, although I've never seen that, but I --
7 I understand that. I say, that's my
8 understanding.
9 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
10 Q. How do you know they're reviewed by the Town's
11 council?
12 A. I'm not comfortable discussing with you my
13 communications with the Town's council about those
14 matters.
15 Q. Are you comfortable in discussing with me the
16 legal bills which are public records that you have
17 submitted to the Town?
18 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
19 THE WITNESS: If you have -- it's not a
20 matter -- if you have a bill that you want me to
21 look at, I'm happy to look at it. I hope it will
22 relate, somehow, to your slander case and that
23 you aren't just intending to take discovery about
24 my work product in other cases.
25
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
M.
1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2
Q.
I have no desire at all to take your work product
3
or to
learn anything that is privileged between you and
4
your counsel.
5
I was just -- I would just like to understand, as
6
Plaintiff
here and as a member of Gulf Stream, how much
7
money
is going out and where is it going.
6
MR. GOLDSTEIN: There's no question pending.
9
THE WITNESS: Yeah. I'm happy to answer
10
your questions. I'm here to answer your
11
questions.
12
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
13
Q.
Would you please?
14
A.
What's the question.
15
Q.
Okay. How much have you billed Gulf Stream
16
for --
would you have accounting records that tell you
17
what you billed Gulf Stream for?
18
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
19
THE WITNESS: I presume. They can total it,
20
the computer could total it I'm sure.
21
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
22
Q.
Have you ever seen it, what you billed?
23
A.
No.
24
Q.
Never?
25
A.
Never looked at it.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
27
1
Q.
Okay. How many suits has the Town filed against
2
myself
and/or Mr. O'Hare by you?
3
A.
Suits that have been filed by the Town against
4
you or
Mr. O'Hare?
5
Q.
Yes.
6
A.
Where you are the Defendants?
7
Q.
Yes.
8
A.
I believe just the Federal RICO case.
9
Q.
Okay. You didn't recently -- I must be mistaken.
10
You didn't recently file a counterclaim?
11
A.
You didn't ask me about a counterclaim.
12
Q.
I think they're all one, but okay, that's fine.
13
Did you recently file a counterclaim?
14
A.
Did I, as an attorney, recently file a
15
counterclaim or did the Town?
16
Q.
Did you sign a counterclaim in connection with me
17
and Mr.
O'Hare?
18
A.
When?
19
Q.
In the last six months?
20
A.
You'd have to show it to me. I filed a number of
21
counterclaims on behalf of the Town.
22
I know that our firm recently filed a
23
counterclaim
against Citizens Awareness Foundation,
24
Inc., and
you on behalf of my firm. Mr. O'Hare was not
25
named.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
W
1
So, I'd have to look and see the last
2
counterclaim
that named you and Mr. O'Hare. I don't
3
know if
it was in the last six months or not.
4
THE COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry, can we take
5
a break so he can finish whatever's he's doing.
6
MR. O'BOYLE: Sure.
7
(Thereupon, a recess was taken; after which
8
the following proceedings were had:)
9
BY MR.
O'B0YLE:
10
Q.
You mentioned Citizens Awareness just a minute
11
ago?
12
A.
I did.
13
Q.
What is Citizens Awareness?
14
A.
You're asking me my legal opinion?
15
Q.
No. I'm asking you in -- to your understanding,
16
what is
it? Is it a garage, is it a burger joint? What
17
is it?
18
A.
You're asking my legal opinion.
19
Q.
No, I'm asking you what it is. If somebody asked
20
me what
this piece of equipment in front of me is, I'd
21
say it's
a computer. That's not a legal opinion.
22
A.
Well, I believe you're asking me a legal opinion.
23
I'm not
comfortable giving you my legal opinions.
24
I've been hired to do that for the Town of Gulf
25
Stream.
I'll give them my legal opinions as to what
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
29
1 Citizens Awareness Foundation, Inc. is.
2
MR. O'BOYLE: Madam, would you kindly
3
certify the record there.
4
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
5
Q.
Do you know a guy named Joel Chandler?
6
A.
Do I know him?
7
Q.
Yes.
8
A.
I wouldn't say I know him.
9
Q.
Okay.
10
A.
I could say that I've met him and interviewed
11
him.
12
Q.
But you don't know him?
13
A.
When I say "know him", I mean, that -- to me that
14
means
know him, like, socially or personally. I know
15
about
him.
16
Q.
Tell me about him?
17
A.
What do you want to know about him?
18
Q.
Whatever you said, I know about him, that's what
19
I want
to know?
20
A.
Well, I am not comfortable giving you what I know
21
about
him from the standpoint that I have had interviews
22
with him
that are work product.
23
I have done investigation and research which are
24
work product.
And Mr. Chandler is the -- is a witness
25
in numerous
cases that are -- or potential witness in
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
M
1 numerous cases that are currently pending.
2 Q. Against the Town of Gulf Stream?
3 A. Numerous cases that are pending.
4 Q. Against the Town of Gulf Stream?
5 A. Yes, he's a witness in cases that are pending
6 against the Town of Gulf Stream. He was just listed as
7 a witness in a case that's pending against the Town of
8 Gulf Stream.
9 Q. In your opinion, is he an upstanding, honorable
10 man?
11 A. I am not here to give you my opinions,
12 Mr. O'Boyle. That would be my work product. I am not
13 comfortable doing that.
14 Q. The statement that you took, that's a public
15 record, is it not?
16 A. I'm sorry, which statement are you referring to?
17 Q. How many statements have you taken from
18 Mr. Chandler?
19 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to form.
20 THE WITNESS: You didn't identify
21 Mr. Chandler in your question. You just stood
22 up, got up, picked up a piece of paper and asked
23 me the statement that you took.
24 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Bob --
25 THE WITNESS: So, if you ask me about the
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
31
1 statement of Mr. Chandler?
2 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
3 Q. Yes?
4 A. You're asking me for a legal conclusion. But my
5 understanding is, at some point, that became a public
6 record, yes.
7 Q. Okay. So, you have not a problem in the world
8 discussing this? This is not work product?
9 A. I have no problem discussing the fact I took a
10 statement from Mr. Chandler at all.
11 Q. What about the content of the statement, that's
12 public record?
13 A. I'm happy to tell you what I remember him saying
14 and me saying, but I think the transcript is probably
15 the best indication. It was videotaped and transcribed
16 by a court reporter.
17 Q. Let's go through the transcript.
18 A. Do you have a copy for me to look at?
19 Q. I do not, but you won't need one.
20 Incidentally, how did you come about to meeting
21 Mr. Chandler?
22 A. Mr. Chandler called me on the phone. He
23 indicated he wanted to report what he believed was
24 criminal and fraudulent conduct that had been committed
25 by you, your son, a law firm, and an entity by the name
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
32
1 of Cafi, C -A -F -I.
2
Q.
And was Mr. Chandler a former member of the FBI,
3
do you
know?
4
A.
I didn't ask him that question in that
5
conversation.
6
Q.
So, you don't know?
7
A.
I never -- I have no knowledge of Mr. Chandler
8
being
involved with the FBI.
9
Q.
Okay. Is Mr. Chandler -- was he involved with
10
the CIA?
11
A.
I never asked him that question.
12
Q.
So, your knowledge is you don't know?
13
A.
I don't know.
14
Q.
Okay. Was he ever involved in Interpol?
15
A.
I don't know.
16
Q.
And is he a lawyer?
17
A.
I don't believe so.
18
Q.
Okay. And when he spoke to you and he said that
19
I was
involved in criminal activities, what were they?
20
A.
Are you talking about in the statement that he
21
gave me?
22
Q.
Or in the statement or in the affidavit or in the
23
timeline
or anything else that he gave us is public
24
knowledge?
25
A.
Well, I'll be happy to discuss the statement with
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
33
1 you. I've interviewed Mr. Chandler several times and
2 that's work product.
3 But in that taped interview, there's a discussion
4 of what he believed was potentially criminal and/or
5 fraudulent behavior. I think -- do you want me to tell
6 you what I remember from the statement?
7 Q. Sure.
8 A. I haven't read the statement for some time. But
9 I generally recall there was, in the interview, a
10 discussion that he -- I have to be careful as to what
11 discussions I've had with him that aren't part of the
12 record, so I have to be careful.
13 At some point, he described your funding a
14 purported not-for-profit corporation, but that he was
15 merely only working for you. He was, a long with
16 another man, going around the state making public
17 records requests for purposes of generating, I think he
18 said, you wanted three thousand lawsuits or 25 a day for
19 your son's law firm to file.
20 I don't remember if he mentioned kill shots and
21 triple A kill shots in that transcript or in the
22 communication with me or in the writings he gave me, but
23 there was a --
24 Q. Excuse me, let me interrupt you and I apologize.
25 MR. GOLDSTEIN: You asked a question, let
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
34
1
him --
2
MR. O'BOYLE: I understand.
3
MR. GOLDSTEIN: You have to let him finish
4
answering the question.
5
THE WITNESS: Okay. So, then I remember he
6
said that you were funding the entire operation.
7
That you were going to try to get deductions and
8
called it a not-for-profit.
9
That you were -- I am not sure if this is
10
actually in that statement or not, a funded
11
through Commerce Group and otherwise pay for all
12
of the activities to generate these cases
13
throughout the state.
14
That he had gone to numerous state and local
15
governments to make these kill shots to generate
16
lawsuits for your son's law firm that you were
17
funding the firm with an unlimited budget to
18
develop as much legal business as you could for
19
your son in this manner.
20
That you wanted to -- oh, that you had set
21
up your close advisors, I believe it was a
22
Mr. Ring, who was your long term business
23
partner, and Brenda Russell, a secretary, and
24
Denise DeMartini, one of your secretary's, to
25
hold them out as if they were the directors, but
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
35
1 that you were paying him -- that you had actually
2 hired him.
3 That there
was
never
any meetings of
Cafi
4 essentially wasn't
a
real
entity, it was
just
5
you. That these same people
were running the
6
O'Boyle Law Firm with your son.
That your son
7
had said he was going to be
a lawyer any day, but
8
he was working full-time in
the law offices in
9
your same office of Commerce
Group. That he was
10
practicing law. That he was
running the firm.
11
That he was preparing pleadings.
12
That you had engaged in
targeting. You had
13
filed over
a hundred
public
records requests in
14
the name of
Cafi, but
Cafi
was really Commerce
15 Group. Commerce Group was on the forms that you
16 had had your secretary do it and that he was mad
17 about you're saying that you weren't involved
18 with Cafi when you were actually running Cafi.
19 That he didn't want to be part of your
20 targeting. That he -- that lawsuits were filed
21 directed by you on behalf of Cafi when he had
22 been told that he would be in charge of any
23 litigation.
24 That he was instructed to give all the
25 litigation to your son's firm. And that he told
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
36
1 you
that he thought
that that would clue people
2 into
what you were
doing, but you
insisted. That
3 he had
an argument
with Mr. Ring
about that and
4 Mr.
Ring said that,
whatever Big
Daddy does, he's
5 the
money, you have
to do what he
says.
6
He told me about
e-mails and
communications
7 involving what he called a "windfall scheme".
8 That not only was the Plaintiff in the cases not
9 a real not-for-profit and a sham that was done to
10 get credibility whenever a suit was filed, but he
11 also told me that he learned through a
12 not-for-profit or some Defendant in a Cafi case
13 that there had been more money demanded by the
14 firm then had been incurred in fees, and that he
15 objected to that and that it had been on-going
16 and it was called the "windfall scheme".
17
And that he
had confronted lawyers in
the
18
firm, I believe
including Jonathan O'Boyle,
and
19
he was told that
that's the way it's going
to be
20 done.
21
And he
told
me
there
were e-mails
regarding
22
all of that
and
that
you
had told him
to retract
23
the e-mails or
you
were going to visit great
24
unpleasantness
on
him.
25 He told me that Denise DeMartini was running
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
37
1 the law firm with Jonathan, discussing client
2 matters that were not he or Cafi in front of him
3 regularly. That there was what man named
4 Mr. Grey that was being used by the law firm as a
5 runner to go do the same thing.
6 I mean, there's a whole lot of things he
7 told me. It was quite -- quite an earful.
8 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
9 Q. Well, let's go over those things.
10 A. Also, he had provided me, of course, a drop box
11 for -- before I took his statement.
12 Q. And by the way, in that connection, I understand
13 that he wanted to provide to Mr. Richmond the same
14 document that he showed to Mr. Richmond, he refused on
15 basis it was unethical?
16 A. I have no knowledge of discussions between
17 Mr. Chandler and Mr. Richmond regarding the drop box.
18 I do know that I was sued by Cafi and refused to
19 give the drop box to Mr. Richmond or to any -- or to
20 Joann O'Connor because there was a claim made that, I
21 believe, I received a letter from your lawyers,
22 Mr. Ring I believe it was, that I could not -- demanding
23 that back.
24 And I advised Mr. Ring that it was my position,
25 based on what had been related to me, that these were
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
W-
1 allegations of crime or fraud and, therefore, there
was
2 no lawyer/client
privilege, and that I was going to
have
3 the Court decide whether or not these documents had to
4 be returned to this alleged entity called Cafi.
5 And thereafter, I believe, is when you sued my
6 law firm trying to get these documents back and that's
7 been the subject of litigation.
8 Q. I think your first statement was that I was
9 funding Cafi?
10 A. That's not my statement. I'm relating to you
11 what Mr. Chandler told me. He told me you were funding
12 everything, the law firm, Cafi, all of the staff at the
13 companies.
14
That you
were, basically --
he used the word Big
15
Daddy, I guess,
which is what Mr.
Ring called you to
16
Mr. Chandler.
And that everything
-- whatever you
17
wanted to do is
going to be done.
And the way you
18
wanted to
do it
was
going to
be done.
19
And
that
Mr.
Chandler
better just learn that's
20 the way things ran. And Mr. Chandler -- that's what he
21 described to me.
22 I am just telling you, my best recollection of
23 what was in the statement or about that time what he
24
discussed
with
me.
Keeping
in mind I
had lunch with
25
him. I,
also,
spoke
to him
after the
statement.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
39
1 So, there are things that may not be on that
2 record. I'm having trouble remembering which is on the
3 record and which was after the record without having the
4 statement in front of me. But you don't want to give me
5 the statement to refresh my recollection, so, I'm giving
6 you my best recollection.
7 Q. Did you pay him off?
8 A. Did I pay him off?
9 Q. Yeah.
10 A. I've never given Mr. Chandler any money for
11 consideration. But I did -- I did buy him a slice of
12 pizza at lunch. And he said, can -- actually, I bought
13 myself a pizza. And he said he wasn't hungry. And he
14 kept looking at my pizza. And he said -- I said, would
15 you like a slice of my pizza? And he said, you sure I
16 can take it? I said, I'm sure you can have slice of my
17 pizza, Mr. Chandler.
18 Q. You had pepperoni?
19 A. I wish my memory were that good.
20 Q. Okay.
21 A. Normally I don't order pepperoni if I'm doing a
22 deposition because I love pepperoni, but it doesn't love
23 me. So, then I stick to mushrooms.
24 If I'm adventurous, I might add onions, but it
25 all depends on what I'm doing that day.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
1 Q. Gotcha. When you started your long statements a
2 few minutes ago, the first thing you said is that in
3 recalling Mr. Chandler's statement, that he said that I
4 was funding Cafi?
5 A. Are you talking about in the sworn statement?
6 Q. Yes.
7 A. My recollection is that he told me that you were
8 funding everything.
9 Q. Okay. Well, wouldn't Cafi be part of everything?
10 A. Yes, he told me you were funding Cafi and
11 everything.
12 Q. Okay. So, he did say that I was funding Cafi?
13 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Objection.
14 THE WITNESS: That's my recollection.
15 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
16 Q. Tell me what factual evidence that you have that
17 that's true?
18 A. I am not comfortable discussing the contents of
19 the drop box that was provided to me because the same
20 lawyer you were using in this case, Mr. DeSusa, is,
21 apparently, also representing Cafi. And he filed suit
22 against my law firm claiming that these are confidential
23 materials of Cafi.
24 So, until a court adjudicates case that or until
25 they are released in some other fashion, I am not
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
41
1 comfortable answering that question.
2
Q.
And I am not asking for one document.
3
A.
And I don't want to talk to you about what's in
4
the documents.
5
Q.
And I'm not asking for you to talk to me about
6
what's
in the document.
7
A.
Okay.
8
Q.
What I'm asking you is, am I correct in that
9
Mr. Chandler
said that I was funding Cafi?
10
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
11
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
12
Q.
And you said yes, correct?
13
A.
The record speaks for itself, Mr. O'Boyle. You
14
asked
me that question three or four times.
15
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
16
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
17
Q.
Okay. Your exaggeration aside --
18
A.
I'm sorry?
19
Q.
I said, your exaggeration aside --
20
A.
Is that a question?
21
MR. GOLDSTEIN: There's no question pending.
22
MR. O'BOYLE: I'm going to continue on and
23
get a question.
24
THE WITNESS: And I'm going to need a
25
restroom break shortly. It's been an
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
42
1
hour-and--a-half I've been here.
2
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
3
Q.
In this sworn statement dated --
4
A.
Do you mind if we take a restroom break if you're
5
going
to go through the entire statement?
6
Q.
Not at all.
7
A.
It's just a two -minute break.
8
MR. HOCHMAN: We're off the record.
9
MR. O'BOYLE: Takes two to go off the
10
record, but we'll go off the record.
11
MR. HOCHMAN: Exactly gotcha.
12
(Thereupon, a recess was taken; after which
13
the following proceedings were had:)
14
MR. O'BOYLE: Would you like to go back on
15
the record?
16
MR. HOCHMAN: Yes, certainly.
17
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
18
Q.
On July 23, 2014 between 10:48 a.m. and
19
3:56 p.m., and the time is insignificant just trying to
20
do it
to, maybe, help you out. Did you take a sworn
21
statement from Joel Chandler?
22
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
23
THE WITNESS: Yes. Except for the lunch
24
recess.
25
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
43
1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2
Q.
Okay.
3
A.
And yes, that's --
4
Q.
Just one quick question, did you tell me about
5
the last
-- about the lunch recess when we -- the last
6
time when Mr. Goldstein said it was asked and answered?
7
A.
Yes, I told you about the pizza.
8
Q.
You did?
9
A.
And that was related to the sworn statement when
10
I was
having sworn statement. The court reporter wasn't
11
there.
So, other than that time period, I was taking
12
the sworn
statement.
13
Q.
Okay. You did take this sworn statement? In
14
other
words, there's questions and answers in here from
15
Mr. Sweetapple
and Mr. Chandler?
16
A.
I think you asked me that. Yes.
17
Q.
Okay. And in that sworn statement it talks about
18
Joel Chandler
saying that I was funding Cafi.
19
Do you claim that a public statement in this
20
public
document to be work product or privileged?
21
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
22
THE WITNESS: I'm not going to give you my
23
legal conclusion, but I have recited -- I mean, I
24
am admitting that I asked that question and he
25
gave that answer and it's part of a public
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
1 record.
2 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
3 Q. And do you have any reason to believe that that's
4 true, that statement?
5 A. I'm not going to disclose my work product. I am
6 not comfortable discussing my work product to you or my
7 opinions, my legal opinions.
8 Q. I don't want your legal opinions.
9 Tell me how that's work product? Help me out?
10 A. I'm not going to help you out, sir. You had an
11 attorney and you've chosen to proceed without an
12 attorney.
13 Your son's an attorney. You can ask him during a
14 break.
15 MR. O'BOYLE: Would you certify the
16 question, please.
17 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
18 Q. We'll get to that when we go through the
19 document.
20 What's a kill shot?
21 A. That is a term that Mr. Chandler used in his
22 discussions with me.
23 Q. How did you -- he's not a hired killer or
24 anything like that to your knowledge, is he?
25 A. No. You want my understanding -- what, basically,
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
M
1 he was describing to me was the making of public records
2 requests with no intent to get the documents, but to
3 have it so difficult or orchestrated in a way that it
4 would not be answered in such a way that the lawsuit
5 that would come from it would result in an obligation on
6 behalf of the government entity to have to pay fees so
7 there would be, as he explained it, no way they would
8 know there was a record that existed, they forgot to
9 include, so complex.
10 But basically, it was the way to go around and to
11 farm lawsuits. And I believe there's an e-mail that's
12 not -- that's before Cafi was formed that's not part of
13 the claim Cafi confidential documents, that talks about
14 the kill shot. And how many he -- I may -- I may have
15 that.
16 I brought a stack of documents with me. If
17 during the break I could look. But I think there's an
18 e-mail that actually talks about the kill shots that was
19 prior to Cafi being formed.
20 Q. And if it was prior to Cafi being formed, who
21 would it involve?
22 A. It involved Mr. Whitmore, your son's law firm, a
23 discussion of how many cases could possibly be farmed
24 using these kill shots for the law firm.
25 Q. And this is all from Mr. Chandler, am I correct?
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
E
1 A. No. There's e-mails between Mr. Whitmore and
2 Mr. Chandler before Cafi was formed when the law firm
3 was being setup to handle this type of activity.
4 Q. And when you say "this type of activity", you're
5 talking about Mr. Chandler preparing complaints for
6 Mr. Whitmore, is that what you're saying?
7 A. No. I'm talking about the business model that was
8 being
setup, whereby,
Mr.
Chandler,
Mr.
Grey would go
9 around
the state and
with
no desire
to
get public
10 records, saying they were representing -- just not
11 saying they represent Cafi, just going out there and
12 asking for records.
13
You
were paying them
or paying
Mr. Chandler, that
14
he had your
credit card, I
believe he
said. You gave
15
him $1,000.
And then these
were kill
shots where the
16
really
good
ones that
he thought
were great
lawsuit he
17
would
bring
to the law
firm. You
would call
it a Cafi
18 public records request. Some of these were oral. He
19
would just
go
in and make requests
and then
he would
20
come back,
the
law firm would file
lawsuits
saying it
21
was Cafi,
which
is a not-for-profit so that the
22
recipient
would
believe it's a legitimate entity that's
23 making these requests.
24 And the kill shot was part of the mechanism that
25 he described. And I believe it's in an e-mail that I
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
47
1 could get for you.
2 Q. The documents that Mr. Richmond didn't want or
3 Joel didn't want to give them to him, I am not sure I
4 grasp what you were saying in full.
5 But Mr. Chandler gave to you confidential
6 documents, did he not?
7 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object the to form.
8 THE WITNESS: Mr. Chandler sent a drop box
9 to me after we had a discussion on the telephone.
10 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
11 Q. And Mr. Chandler was no longer with Cafi at that
12 point, am I correct?
13 A. I don't -- I don't believe he was from the
14 conversation.
15 Q. So, if he wasn't with Cafi and he had Cafi
16 documents where there communications with lawyers and so
17 forth, wouldn't they be privileged?
18 A. You're asking me for -- first of all, there's
19 hypotheticals in the question. And second of all,
20 you're asking me for a legal opinion.
21 Q. Okay. Do you believe -- I believe that those
22 documents were stolen, that's what I believe.
23 And if I'm correct, isn't that kind of activity a
24 felony?
25 A. I am not here to give you my legal opinion with
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
WM
1 regard to your legal matters.
2
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Going to object to
the form.
3
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
4
Q.
Okay.
5
A.
And I don't understand --
6
MR. GOLDSTEIN: There's no question
pending.
7
THE WITNESS: That's all. I am not
here to
8
give you a legal opinion.
9
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
10
Q.
And I wouldn't want a legal opinion from
you.
11
Thank
you.
12
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Move to strike the
13
commentary.
14
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
15
Q.
Where did Joel get these documents, he didn't
16
work for Cafi, they were Cafi documents. Where
would he
17
have gotten them, do you have any idea?
18
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
19
THE WITNESS: Mr. Chandler told me
they were
20
his documents.
21
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
22
Q.
You're a lawyer, you know better, don't
you?
23
MR. GOLDSTEIN: There's no question
pending.
24
Object to the form.
25
THE WITNESS: Are you saying that I
should
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
1 have doubted Mr. Chandler?
2 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
3 Q. No. I think you should have looked at the
4 documents. You knew that Mr. Chandler was no longer
5 with Cafi. You knew that the documents were between
6 Cafi and their counsel, and you took them anyway.
7 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
8 THE WITNESS: There were a number of
9 different types of documents in the drop box
10 before I allowed -- at the very onset of my
11 discussion with Mr. Chandler, I instructed him
12 that I did not want to talk to him unless he had
13 an independent attorney.
14 He indicated to me that he had spoken to, in
15 excess of, ten attorneys about what was
16 happening. He indicated to me that he had
17 already contacted numerous victims. That I was
18 hardly the first person he was contacting.
19 And I indicated to him that I would be more
20 comfortable if he had an attorney. And he said
21 he didn't need one. And I said, fine. I am
22 happy to proceed.
23 And he sent me a drop box. And I told you
24 what my position was with regard to that drop box
25 when your -- when Mr. Ring made a demand for
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
50
1 those documents back and it's the subject of
2 on-going litigation.
3 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
4 Q. When you got the drop box and the documents, did
5 you look at the documents?
6 A. They were so voluminous that I did not look at
7 them. I looked at some of them. I am not very savvy
8 with the computer, it was on a computer.
9 I didn't know what a drop box was at the time. I
10 looked at some of it. And I, actually, said to
11 Mr. Chandler, because I'd arranged to go immediately to
12 see him, could you please write out a chronology for me
13 so that I know what you're talking about.
14 And then he sent me another computer document
15 which was a chronology with like e-mails. So, I did
16 look at that.
17 Q. But of the e-mails that you looked at, were any
18 of them between Cafi and counsel?
19 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
20 THE WITNESS: I'd have to go back and look.
21 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
22 Q. You don't remember?
23 A. I don't. I don't. I really don't feel
24 comfortable talking about those documents anyway as to
25 what they said. I haven't looked at them in a long,
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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51
1 long time.
2 But I do -- I do believe there were e-mails
3 between Jonathan and Joel. Whether or not that's Cafi
4 or not, of course, is a legal conclusion.
5 Q. Hm-hum. The documents in the drop box, in either
6 the to or from, did you see the name Cafi or Citizens
7 Awareness Foundations, Inc.? I am not sure how it shows
8 up.
9 A. I don't remember that. I remember Joel Chandler
10 and different people.
11 Q. Okay. So, you don't remember of all those
12 documents in the drop box? You don't remember one that
13 said Cafi?
14 A. Well, I am not -- that's not what I said. I said
15 I don't remember if, in the e-mails, where it said from
16 Joel to Whitmore, to -- or Ring to Joel, if it said Cafi
17 or just Joel.
18 Mr. Chandler's position was that he -- that the
19 employment by Cafi was just a ruse.
20 Q. And my position is, is that he's a pedophile.
21 A. Is that a question?
22 Q. No. You were just telling me what his position
23 is.
24 A. I'm just telling you what he told me. I don't
25 know what your dealings with him are or how you would
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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52
1 believe he's a pedophile.
2
MR. HOCHMAN: Can you read back the
3
statement on the record where Mr. O'Boyle made a
4
comment about Mr. Chandler?
5
MR. O'B0YLE: Please, strike that, please.
6
MR. HOCHMAN: I just want it read back so I
7
can hear exactly what the -- so I can write it
8
down in my notes.
9
MR. O'BOYLE: Would you, please, strike
10
that. He can write down all he wants.
11
(Thereupon, the last pending question was
12
read back; after which the following proceedings
13
were had:)
14
MR. HOCHMAN: Do you know what page that's
15
on in terms of where you are, approximately?
16
THE COURT REPORTER: About 47 to 50.
17
MR. HOCHMAN: I would like an excerpt,
18
please, of the couple questions before that and
19
to the point that I'm saying this is now excerpt
20
number one. Thank you.
21
So, I may not order the entire transcript,
22
but I'm going to ask for the excerpt. Thank you.
23
MR. O'B0YLE: Is your speech over?
24
MR. HOCHMAN: I was making a request to the
25
court reporter so I can an order a portion of the
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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53
1
transcript.
2
MR. O'BOYLE: You could have done that
3
later.
4
Are we back on the record?
5
THE COURT REPORTER: We were always on.
6
MR. O'BOYLE: And, again, I just want to say
7
that to my knowledge, Mr. Chandler is not a
8
pedophile and I would never accuse him of being a
9
pedophile.
10
Moving a long.
11
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
12
Q.
Did Mr. Chandler, when he sent you the drop box,
13
you read certain documents you said?
14
A.
I did look at certain documents.
15
Q.
Okay. How many documents were in the drop box,
16
approximately?
17
A.
I don't know.
18
Q.
Was there less than a million?
19
A.
I'm certain.
20
Q.
Excuse me?
21
A.
I'm certain.
22
Q.
Okay. Was there less than a hundred thousand?
23
A.
I'm certain.
24
Q.
Okay. Was there less than fifty thousand?
25
A.
I believe so.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
54
1
Q.
Okay. Was there less than twenty-five thousand?
2
A.
I never counted them. I would think there's less
3
than twenty-five thousand.
4
Q.
Is there less than ten thousand?
5
A.
I'd have to see it printed out and look at them.
6
I mean,
if I were guessing, I would say --
7
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Don't guess.
8
THE WITNESS: I mean, I really would
9
have to -- I'm guessing.
10
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Let me move to strike any
11
questions characterized as a guess.
12
THE WITNESS: Okay. I would be guessing.
13
I never
counted the number of documents.
14
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
15
Q.
So, it could be twenty thousand and it could be
16
nine,
correct, somewhere between there?
17
A.
It was more -- I think when they printed it, it
18
was more
a notebook, it wasn't a box.
19
Q.
And when you say "notebook", one of the big black
20
books?
21
A.
It's a black book. I don't know, you know, how
22
big or
how many pages there are.
23
Q.
Okay.
24
A.
I had it printed because I don't often read
25
documents
on the computer. I'm old fashioned, 36 years
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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55
1 of doing this. I'm learning, though.
2 Q. And I appreciate that. Although, a few minutes
3 ago you just said the very opposite and that is, that
4 you were looking at them on the screen?
5 A. I tried that, but I'm not comfortable doing that
6 because I like to underline and I like to -- so, I'll do
7 that, I'll glance at things on the screen.
8 But I always have them print it out. I'm a tree
9 killer from way back.
10 Q. Okay.
11 A. Although, I'm trying to get around that.
12 Q. Okay. Good enough with me.
13 So, I guess just as a follow up question, you
14 don't think that anything in connection with your
15 conduct, Joel Chandler's conduct in connection with the
16 drop box, the Cafi documents, you don't think there's
17 anything wrong with what you've done morally, ethically,
18 legally, nothing?
19 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
20 THE WITNESS: You're asking me for my legal
21 opinion. I can tell you that all times as a
22 lawyer, I try to conduct myself in a way that's
23 ethical, legal and even moral.
24
So, no, I don't
believe
that anything
that I
25
did in receiving this
person's
attempt to
inform
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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56
1 me on behalf of the Town of Gulf Stream of what
2 he believed was criminal and fraudulent conduct
3 directed, not only to Gulf Stream but to over a
4 hundred governments in the state, was immoral,
5 unethical or illegal.
6 I believe I had a duty to receive that
7 information on behalf of my client.
8 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
9 Q. Do you believe you had a duty to submit that to
10 the Bar?
11 A. Had my client not filed a Bar complaint, I think
12 the ethical rules required that when a lawyer becomes
13 aware of unethical conduct or alleged unethical conduct
14 with regard to another lawyer, we do have a duty to
15 report that to the Bar, yes. That's my understanding of
16 the Bar rules.
17 Q. So, if what you did in connection with the drop
18 box in reading the documents and so forth is immoral,
19 unethical or illegal, one of the lawyers here, probably
20 Mr. Goldstein, would report you to the Bar and that
21 would be appropriate, am I correct?
22 A. You're asking me my legal opinion?
23 Q. No.
24
A.
I'm telling you
that
my --
you're
asking me my
25
general
understanding.
I'll
give
it to
you from my
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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57
1 experience; is that if a lawyer becomes aware of a
2 breach of the rules regulating the Florida Bar by
3 another lawyer, he has a duty to report that.
4
Q.
Okay. The amended counterclaim that was filed in
5
Case 4474, do you know anything about that?
6
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
7
THE WITNESS: I believe that is a public
8
records case that you filed against the Town of
9
Gulf Stream.
10
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
11
Q.
The amended counterclaim is what you think I
12
filed?
13
A.
No, no, that Case 44 --
14
Q.
That's not what I asked you.
15
A.
Do I know anything about the counterclaim?
16
Q.
Yeah, the amended counterclaim?
17
A.
I know that there was an amended counterclaim
18
filed
in that case.
19
Q.
Do you have any idea who filed it?
20
A.
I believe my firm filed it with O'Connor,
21
Joann
O'Connor's firm.
22
Q.
Okay. So, it would have been signed by you and
23
Joann
O'Connor, is that what you're saying?
24
A.
I would have to see the document. I mean, it
25
doesn't
have to be signed by both attorneys of record.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
M
1 Q. But it was signed by you? When I say "you", I
2 mean your firm.
3 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
4 THE WITNESS: I would have to see the
5 document, but I don't know. If it was
6 electronically filed, I don't know if I signed
7 it. If you show it to me, we'll know.
8 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
9 Q. Ah -huh. Okay. Are you familiar with the Bar of
10 the Rules?
11 A. Generally, yes.
12 Q. Sorry?
13 A. Yes, I am generally familiar with the Bar rules.
14 Q. And what's the difference between being familiar
15 with the Bar rules and generally being familiar with the
16 Bar rules?
17 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
18 THE WITNESS: When I served as vice chair of
19 the Florida Bar Grievance Committee along with
20 Judge French, I was very familiar with the Bar
21 rules because I worked with them on a weekly
22 basis.
23 Now, if you ask me a specific question about
24 a specific number or content, I would have to
25 look at the rules to recite them to you. But
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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1
there was a time when that wasn't necessary.
2
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
3
Q.
The sworn statement that you took from
4
Mr. Chandler, are you relying on it?
5
A.
What do you mean, am I relying on it?
6
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to form.
7
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
8
Q.
Okay. I have to type a letter and I'm relying on
9
this computer to not break down and allow me to type the
10
letter.
11
Are you relying on the content of this document
12
which
you took from Mr. Chandler?
13
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
14
THE WITNESS: For what purpose?
15
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
16
Q.
The truth?
17
A.
I had Mr. Chandler swear to anything he told me.
18
Q.
And what happens if you have conflicting
19
information?
20
If Mr. Hochman says white and Mr. Goldstein says
21
black
or Mr. Chandler says red, Marty O'Boyle says
22
green,
how do you handle that?
23
A.
How do I handle that?
24
Q.
I asked you first.
25
A.
I'm not a judge. I am not a jury. I don't
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
z
1 adjudicate people's
credibility.
I interview witnesses.
2 I only file
things
that I think
are in good faith.
3 If I
thought
someone was
lying to me, I certainly
4 would not use
their
statement, but
I don't -- I don't
5 know how to
answer
your question
other than that.
6 Q. Well,
about
the veracity
of the document, the
7
statement's
made.
Are you
-- probably not using the
8
right word,
please
excuse
me, but are you relying on --
9
for all of
your --
not for
all, but for many of your
10
future pleadings,
filings
from this, are you relying on
11
the content
of this?
12 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
13
THE
WITNESS: I am not capable of
telling
14
you what
my future pleadings are going
to be.
15
BY MR. O'BOYLE:
matters, legal
matters,
16 Q. No, no.
17 A. Nor am I comfortable telling you my work product
18 and what statements of what witnesses I'll be relying on
19 for my representation of the Town and various matters
20 that are filed or un -filed for that matter.
21 Q. Have you not filed pleadings since the date that
22 you took this? When I say "pleadings", may not be the
23 right term.
24
You
have filed
documents
-- you filed --
you made
25
filings in
connection
with court
matters, legal
matters,
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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61
1 litigations, am I correct?
2
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to form.
3
THE WITNESS: On behalf of the Town of Gulf
4
Stream?
5
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
6
Q.
On behalf of the Town of Gulf Stream?
7
A.
I made many, many filings on behalf of the Town
8
of Gulf
Stream.
9
Q.
Okay. And I'm going to tell you that many of
10
your filings
that I've seen include much of what is in
11
here.
Does that sound correct to you?
12
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to form.
13
THE WITNESS: That you said most of my
14
filings?
15
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
16
Q.
Yes, most.
17
A.
I would have to look at all the filings. I'd
18
have to
look at all the filings and weigh them and count
19
them to
see if there's a reference to any of that
20
testimony.
21
Q.
Well, let's take baby steps. Let's take one
22
filing.
Have you in any one filing used information
23
that's
in this sworn statement you took from
24
Joel Chandler?
25
A.
Yes.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1
Q.
Okay. And what documents do you remember with
2
specificity?
3
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
4
THE WITNESS: Where I actually filed that or
5
where I actually made a reference to it?
6
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
7
Q.
Have you found --
8
A.
There's a long statement and he also provided an
9
affidavit.
10
Q.
Right.
11
A.
And I -- I --
12
Q.
I am not talking about either, by the way.
13
A.
Okay. Please, restate your question. I am not
14
sure exactly what you want because I want to get the
15
right
answer.
16
Q.
Sure. Thank you. You have filed, after July 23,
17
2014,
pleadings, filings, whatever they're called in
18
connection with certain cases which would be the Town of
19
Gulf Stream versus my son, myself, Mr. O'Hare, would
20
that be correct?
21
MR. GOLDSTEIN: I'm going to object to the
22
form of the question.
23
THE WITNESS: What was the question again?
24
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
25
Q.
I'm talking about cases, whether they be counter
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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1 claims, whether they be motions, whether they be
2 straightforward claims.
3
I told you I'm not adjoined when it comes to the
4
names
of the -- of the documentation, but your filings?
5
A.
What about my filings again?
6
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Mr. O'Boyle, do you have a
7
specific filing that you're referring to that you
8
can direct him. I think it would be easier.
9
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
10
Q.
Okay. Well, thank you. Lunch time, if you would
11
like --
you can buy me lunch and I would appreciate it.
12
You filed a counterclaim in 4474, do you remember
13
what was
in that counterclaim?
14
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
15
THE WITNESS: I prefer to see the original
16
counterclaim to answer. But I remember a
17
declaratory judgment count, I believe.
18
I believe I was -- I'd have to see the
19
original pleading. I know, at some point, I was
20
trying on behalf of Gulf Stream to have the court
21
rule on the issue of the Cafi documents,
22
something like that. I'd have to see the
23
pleading to be safe.
24
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
25
Q.
Okay. Besides 4474 -- let's move for a little
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
1 bit.
2
Do you remember preparing a document and at my
3
deposition
you threw it on the table and said, did you
4
say this
is the biggest piece of shit you'd ever seen,
5
do you
remember that?
6
A.
Did I -- I'm sorry, did I see a document?
7
Q.
No, that's not what I said. Listen closely.
8
A.
Okay.
9
Q.
I said, do you remember at my deposition that you
10
took,
do you remember pulling out a document and
11
saying
-- putting it on the table and saying, did you
12
say that
this was the biggest piece of shit you'd ever
13
seen?
14
A.
Ask you that question?
15
Q.
Yes.
16
A.
In --
17
Q.
Yes.
18
A.
I'd have to see that question in the transcript.
19
Q.
You don't deny it, though?
20
A.
I'd have to see it.
21
Q.
But you don't deny that you said it?
22
A.
I am not admitting or denying it. I need to --
23
if there's
a transcript it will say what I said.
24
I don't -- unless you used that word, I try not
25
to cuss
in legal proceedings.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
65
1
Q.
You said, the biggest piece of shit that I'd ever
2
seen.
3
A.
I think --
4
Q.
And what that was was about an UPL against my
5
son.
6
A.
That you had said that -- I've heard you say this
7
is the
biggest piece of shit I'd ever seen about a
8
motion
to disqualify the O'Boyle Law Firm.
9
Q.
Okay.
10
A.
I remember something about that when you said
11
that.
I don't think it was the Joel Chandler statement.
12
I think
that was a motion that I had filed a long which
13
Joann O'Connor on behalf of the Town to disqualify the
14
O'Boyle
Law Firm. But that was before -- that was
15
before
I took a statement from Mr. Chandler.
16
Q.
I don't think you're correct, but I can't say
17
that you're
wrong?
18
Q.
I don't think you're correct.
19
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Move to strike.
20
THE WITNESS: In fact, I'm certain of it.
21
MR. GOLDSTEIN: There's no question pending.
22
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
23
Q.
What was your a factual basis for saying that my
24
son was
guilty of the unlicensed practice of law?
25
When I say "your factual basis", we're going to
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
M
1 exclude from that any non -facts that you have.
2
MR. GOLDSTEIN:
Okay. Mr. O'Boyle, again, I
3
I'm going to object.
If you can tell me how this
4
is relevant to the
claims of -- that my client
5
allegedly slandered
you, I would be happy to
6
listen to -- or for
you to advise me.
7
MR. O'BOYLE:
If you want to instruct him
8
not to answer, you're
more than welcome to do
9
that.
10
MR. GOLDSTEIN:
I am not instructing him
11
either way. I just
want asking for you to
12
advise how a --
13
MR. O'BOYLE:
Kindly --
14
MR. GOLDSTEIN:
-- motion that's filed --
15
MR. O'BOYLE:
-- ask him to kindly answer
16
the question, please.
17
MR. GOLDSTEIN:
I'm asking as to how a
18
motion that was filed
completely separate from
19
the litigation has
any relevance to the claim --
20
MR. O'BOYLE:
I am not going to answer you.
21
MR. GOLDSTEIN:
-- or to him.
22
THE WITNESS:
If you want to talk about the
23
facts --
24
MR. O'BOYLE:
Yes.
25
THE WITNESS:
-- that will support the
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
67
1
Town's position that there was unlicensed
2
practice of law by the O'Boyle Law Firm, that was
3
set forth in a motion that was filed with the
4
court. And the facts, I believe, are set forth
5
in that motion.
6
If you handed me a copy of the motion, I
7
could recite for you all of the facts. If you
8
want me to generally recall the facts, I can do
9
that. If you want me to give you the facts that
10
were provided by Mr. Chandler after the motion
11
was filed, I am happy to try to do that for you
12
as well.
13
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
14
Q.
I appreciate that and thank you.
15
What I would be interested in is, as they say in
16
Dragnet, just the facts please?
17
A.
Okay. You want the facts that are in the Motion
18
to Disqualify.
19
Q.
No, sir, I want the facts.
20
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
21
THE WITNESS: Any fact that went to the
22
unlicensed practice of law that was put out?
23
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
24
Q.
Yes, any fact. And let me see if I can clarify
25
what I'm
thinking. Fact, the court reporter is sitting
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
M
1 about eight -foot from me.
2
Not a fact, on the other side of the building
3
there's
another court reporter who's there. I think she
4
is, but
I can't say for sure. I have no factual basis
5
to make
such a statement.
6
I have a factual basis to say that she's here.
7
That's
a --
8
A.
The facts that I am aware of that have been set
9
forth
in pleadings, statements, filings --
10
Q.
Just facts.
11
A.
That I am aware of, the just facts --
12
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Do you want to ask him a
13
question?
14
THE WITNESS: The facts that I am aware
15
of --
16
MR. O'BOYLE: I asked him a question.
17
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Then stop interrupting him.
18
MR. O'BOYLE: Sure. Stop interrupting me.
19
THE WITNESS: The facts that I'm aware of that
20
have been made public in filings or statements
21
that I remember now sitting here include a
22
confrontation between Judge Barkdull and Jonathan
23
O'Boyle where that issue was raised.
24
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
25
Q.
Okay, let's stop.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
1 A. Well, let me finish my answer, please.
2 MR. O'BOYLE: Let's stop.
3 MR. GOLDSTEIN: You've asked him a question,
4 let him answer.
5 MR. O'BOYLE: I'll withdrawing my question.
6 We'll ask them one a the a time.
7 THE WITNESS: You've only given one.
8 MR. O'BOYLE: That's all I need for now.
9 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
10 Q. You said one of the facts is, that confrontation
11 between Judge Barkdull and Jonathan O'Boyle. Tell me
12 how that constitutes the unlicensed practice of law,
13 please?
14 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form of the
15 question.
16 THE WITNESS: I was giving you a preface to
17 my answer to say that I retrieved a transcript of
18 a -- this colloquy between the Judge and Jonathan
19 where he said, we're about to discuss the
20 unlicensed practice of law and asked him to move
21 back from the bar, which was one of the first
22 times I think I realized that Jonathan was not a
23 member of the Florida Bar.
24 And there is record evidence, public record
25 evidence, that the O'Boyle Law Firm in Florida
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
70
1
registered itself purporting to be a branch,
2
let's say, let's simplify it, a branch of the
3
O'Boyle Law Firm that was in Philadelphia.
4
And the evidence that was presented in the
5
filings was that Mr. Jonathan O'Boyle was living
6
full-time in Florida. That he told the
7
Pennsylvania Bar that he was not active in
8
Pennsylvania, and that he actually resided at a
9
residence address in Gulf Stream.
10
So, that the parent corporation that was
11
supposed to be sponsoring the branch office of
12
the O'Boyle Law Firm had no lawyer in it. It was
13
supposed to be Jonathan, but he resided in Gulf
14
Stream and was not an active member of the
15
Pennsylvania Bar.
16
In addition, facts were asserted by
17
Mr. Chandler that Jonathan was --
18
BY MR.
O'B0YLE:
19
Q.
Excuse me. Mr. Chandler is not -- you cannot use
20
Mr. Chandler
for factual information. There's no
21
factual
information. I want to know facts?
22
A.
Well, a statement of a witness --
23
Q.
Aside from --
24
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Okay, don't --
25
MR. O'BOYLE: That's fine. And once again I
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
71
1
apologize for not being clear.
2
MR. GOLDSTEIN: I think you also don't need
3
to interrupt Mr. Sweetapple's answer.
4
MR. O'BOYLE: I don't want you to keep
5
interrupting me.
6
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Well, I respect that you
7
give him the same respect that you're demanding.
8
MR. O'BOYLE: I respect that you give me the
9
same respect.
10
MR. GOLDSTEIN: I will when you do so to my
11
client.
12
MR. O'BOYLE: So, you're not going to give
13
me respect is that what you're saying, counsel?
14
MR. GOLDSTEIN: No. I'll give you the
15
respect and I expect it to be reciprocated.
16
MR. O'BOYLE: It's only conditional is that
17
what you're saying, counsel?
18
MR. GOLDSTEIN: I'm not saying it's
19
conditional. I'm expecting you to reciprocate and
20
allow the witness to finish answering the
21
question.
22
THE WITNESS: Could we take a break while
23
you're --
24
MR. HOCHMAN: Can I ask you to read back the
25
record what Mr. O'Boyle said about what
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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72
1 Mr. Chandler says is not a fact. I just want to
2 write that down for my notes, please.
3 MR. O'BOYLE: No, that's not a fact.
4 THE COURT REPORTER: We're off the record.
5 (Thereupon, a recess was taken; after which
6 the following proceedings were had:)
7 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
8 Q. Mr. Sweetapple, we just completed a break. And
9 as in any hiatus, you sometimes lose your place and I
10 may have. I don't know that I did, but I may have.
11 We were talking about facts for the UPL and you
12 mentioned Judge Barkdull and then I think you were, for
13 lack of a better way of saying it, moon walking. What
14 does Judge Barkdull have to do with facts --
15 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to form.
16 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
17 Q. -- regarding Jonathan O'Boyle and your claim that
18 he was engaged in the unauthorized practice of law?
19 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
20 THE WITNESS: I'm trying to answer your
21 question as best as I can. Do you want to tell
22 me what your pending question is? I heard moon
23 walking.
24 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
25 Q. Yeah, I just did. Would you like me to repeat it
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
1 again?
73
2 A. If you could.
3 Q. I would be delighted to.
4 I asked you for, in connection with the UPL that
5 you filed against Jonathan O'Boyle, the document that I
6 said, this is the biggest piece of shit that I'd ever
7 seen.
8 In connection with that document, what factual
9 information was in that document that would make
10 Jonathan guilty of the unauthorized practice of law?
11 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
12 THE WITNESS: That document has facts
13 alleged in it. First of all, it was a motion to
14 disqualify a law firm. I don't believe it sought
15 to find Jonathan guilty of the unlicensed
16 practice of law. It was not any type of a
17 charging document.
18 And I told you that one of the things I
19 recall being in the motion were facts regarding
20 the presence of Jonathan practicing law in
21 Florida, allegedly, on behalf of a branch office
22 and there was no main office that had a lawyer
23 because the main office was supposed to be
24 Jonathan in Pennsylvania.
25 And the records that were attached to the
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
74
1
motion suggested that Jonathan had told the
2
Pennsylvania Bar that he was living in Gulf
3
Stream and that he was inactive.
4
And I think there was a case cited from the
5
Florida Supreme Court dealing with, whether or
6
not lawyers could operate in Florida, allegedly,
7
as a branch office of an out of state firm and on
8
what facts and conditions they could do so.
9
And the motion that was filed was a motion
10
to disqualify the O'Boyle Law Firm from handling
11
the case that was pending based on the argument
12
that it was not a bona fide interstate law firm.
13
That's my recollection of the motion.
14
But it would help if I could see it because
15
it was a couple years ago.
16
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
17
Q.
Okay. But you did sign it, did you?
18
A.
It would help if I saw it. I don't know if it
19
was electronically
filed, if Joann signed it, I would
20
have to
see it.
21
Q.
Okay. So, are you denying you signed it?
22
A.
Pardon?
23
Q.
Are you denying you signed it?
24
A.
I thought we just had this question.
25
Q.
Perhaps we did.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
75
1 Are you denying you signed it?
2 A. I am not denying or admitting that I signed it
3 myself with my handwriting, I'm saying I would need to
4 see it.
5 Now, papers are filed electronically without me
6 signing them. In the old days, I had to sign things. I
7 had co -counsel. I don't know if Joann signed it or I
8 signed it without seeing it, I haven't looked at it in
9 some time.
10 Q. How many lawyers have you, for lack of a better
11 way of saying it, charged with the unlawful practice of
12 law?
13 A. You mean, have I charged?
14 Q. Filed any type of document, either directly with
15 the Bar or with the courts, how many?
16 A. I don't -- I don't think any.
17 Q. So, as far as Jonathan is concerned,
18 Jonathan O'Boyle -- let me say it differently.
19 Weren't you being vicious?
20 A. No. I think I was actually doing my job which
21 was to represent my client and take the position that
22 this law firm was not entitled to fees or to represent
23 the Plaintiff.
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. I don't think there's anything vicious in the
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
W
1 motion at
all.
It purports to
cite facts
and
law which,
2 I believe
at the
time I filed
it, were in
good
faith and
3 still do.
4 Q. And why did you mention Judge Barkdull in the
5 scheme of my question which is, I only want the facts?
6 A. I answered that already. And I told you that I
7 was giving you a preface for how I got into the issue of
8 the -- of investigating the whole concept of
9 unauthorized practice of law.
10 I didn't say that Judge Barkdull's statements
11
were
about to
talk
about
the
unauthorized practice
of
12
law,
although,
that
could
be
a fact as well because
as a
13 judge making a statement, I don't know if that's a fact
14 or not.
15 Q. Now, I'm reading your document and you are
16 correct, it's titled Defendant's Motion to Disqualify
17 the O'Boyle Law Firm PC, Inc., in the alternative for an
18 evidentiary hearing.
19 Are you saying that the O'Boyle Law Firm, Inc.
20 was engaged in the unauthorized practice of law?
21
MR.
GOLDSTEIN:
I'm going to object. The
22
document
speaks for
itself.
23
THE
WITNESS: I
was saying that the -- I
24
think the
motion says,
and I'd love to have a
25
copy of
it, but I'll
give you my best answer
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
77
1
without it. As I recall the motion, it alleged
2
that the law firm was not a bona fide branch
3
of -- it was not an authorized law firm to
4
practice law because it was not a bona fide
5
branch of an genuine parent law firm. And I
6
cited a case that, I believe, was directly on
7
point.
8
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
9
Q.
And you said it was not a bona fide law firm.
10
And that
information, what is your factual basis it
11
wasn't
magic?
12
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Ask and answered.
13
THE WITNESS: I had -- I had -- there were
14
attached to the motion, I believe, were documents
15
that bore out some of the things I said in my
16
answer.
17
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
18
Q.
Well --
19
A.
There should be some attachments.
20
Q.
Well, one of the things you said in your answer,
21
for a
factual basis for him being practicing or engaged
22
in the
unauthorized practice of law is his cell phone
23
number
began with 561. Tell me how that correlates?
24
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
25
Mischaracterizes testimony.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
IS
1
THE WITNESS: The motion set forth a
2
position that in order for this law firm to
3
actually be a recognized Florida law firm, it
4
would have to be a branch of a bona fide
5
Pennsylvania law firm.
6
And the facts that were recited in the
7
motion, I believe, included materials from the
8
Bar that showed that Jonathan had indicated he
9
was not active in Pennsylvania. That showed that
10
he had reported to the Bar of Pennsylvania that
11
he lived in Gulf Stream.
12
The 561 number would be some evidence of the
13
fact that he was located in Florida. Some
14
evidence only because people do move with their
15
cell phones.
16
And I think the motion had other factors
17
that were recited in it, but I would have to see
18
it. There were exhibits attached to it.
19
But you said the motion said that Jonathan
20
was practicing law, unauthorized practice of law.
21
The motion didn't say that as I recall. The
22
motion said that Jonathan is permitted to be a
23
lawyer in Pennsylvania and practice law in
24
Pennsylvania. And he could have a parent law
25
firm in Pennsylvania and then have a branch
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
79
1
office, a bona fide office, in Florida, but that
2
wasn't what was happening here.
3
And that's what the motion -- that's why the
4
motion sought to disqualify the law firm. It
5
never sought any sanctions against
6
Jonathan O'Boyle. I'll look at it, but I don't
7
believe it did.
8
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
9
Q.
When you said it didn't seek any sanctions, the
10
unauthorized practice of law is a felony, is it not?
11
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
12
THE WITNESS: The motion did not seek any
13
sanctions against Jonathan O'Boyle. The motion
14
was directed to the activity of a law firm and
15
that went to the issue of A, could the law firm
16
represent the law firm.
17
And B, was the law firm entitled to fees.
18
Now, as I recall -- well, I'll just let you
19
ask the questions.
20
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
21
Q.
I'm looking at just one of your attachments.
22
A.
You don't have a copy for me to look at while
23
you're
reviewing these documents?
24
Q.
Yeah, but I wouldn't give it to you anyway.
25
A.
Okay.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
1
MR.
O'HARE: Would you like us to go pose?
2
MR.
HOCHMAN: Yes, I would like that.
3
MR.
O'B0YLE: Okay. Let's all get up and go
4
pose.
5
THE
WITNESS: Mr. O'Boyle, are you
6
adjourning
the deposition?
7
MR.
O'BOYLE: No, no, not at all. Counsel
8
asked us
to go --
9
MR.
HOCHMAN: I didn't ask you, you
10
volunteered.
11
MR.
O'BOYLE: And you said yes, you want me
12
to do it.
13
MR.
HOCHMAN: Yes, if you want to.
14
THE
WITNESS: I'm ready for your next
15
question,
Mr. O'Boyle.
16
MR.
O'BOYLE: Okay.
17
BY MR. O'BOYLE:
18
Q. The O'Boyle
Law Firm PC, Inc., was that not a
19
Pennsylvania --
registered in Pennsylvania as a law
20
firm?
21
MR.
GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
22
THE
WITNESS: My -- I'd have to see the
23
document
to see if it was PC, Inc., the dates,
24
but my general recollection is that it was
25
registered as a company in Pennsylvania.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
a
1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2
Q.
Well --
3
A.
And I believe it was registered at a relative of
4
your
family, some type of residential address if I
5
recall
correctly, condo or townhouse.
6
Q.
And what factual basis do you have that said you
7
can't
be a Pennsylvania lawyer if your address for
8
notifications
and mail is at a relatives?
9
A.
That's not what I'm saying.
10
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
11
MR. O'BOYLE: Okay. Madam, would you be
12
kind enough to read back what Mr. Sweetapple
13
said.
14
THE COURT REPORTER: "That's not what I'm
15
saying".
16
MR. O'BOYLE: Go back.
17
THE WITNESS: If you can read the question
18
and answer, please.
19
(Thereupon, the last pending question and
20
answer was; after which the following proceedings
21
were had:)
22
THE WITNESS: Your question is, what
23
information do I have that you can't be a
24
Pennsylvania lawyer if your address for
25
notification is at a Pennsylvania relatives
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
M
1 address?
2 MR. O'BOYLE: Madam reporter, would you
3 kindly read the question back for Mr. Sweetapple.
4 THE WITNESS: Please.
5 (Thereupon, the last pending question and
6 answer was; after which the following proceedings
7 were had:)
8 THE WITNESS: I don't have any a factual
9 basis one way or the other for that.
10 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
11 Q. Okay. Was that in your motion?
12 A. I believe the motion made reference -- I believe
13 the motion made reference to -- to the fact that --
14 Which fact are you asking me was in the motion?
15 Q. Madam --
16 A. You said, was that in the motion. What do you
17 mean by that?
18 Q. What we were just talking about when you made her
19 read back multiple times.
20 A. What portion of it? The residency portion, the
21 townhouse portion, the portion that dealt with the --
22 Q. They're all your answers.
23 MR. O'BOYLE: Madam, may I ask that you read
24 it back. I hope this will be the last one.
25 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to form. Strike the
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
E,
1 commentary.
2 (Thereupon, the last pending question and
3 answer was; after which the following proceedings
4 were had:)
5 THE WITNESS: My answer is, I have no a
6 factual basis for that.
7 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
8 Q. Okay. That's fine. And thank you,
9 Mr. Sweetapple.
10 You say in your Defendant's Motion to Disqualify,
11 Jonathan O'Boyle has used the Pennsylvania professional
12 corporation to establish an office or other regular
13 presence in the State of Florida without being admitted
14 to practice here generally and thereby engaged in the
15 unlicensed practice of law.
16 What is your a factual basis for making that
17 statement?
18 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Document speaks for itself.
19 Object to the form.
20 THE WITNESS: In addition to what's in that
21 motion or just what's in that motion?
22 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
23 Q. Well, we'll start with what's with -- what's in
24 the motion. We'll start with that.
25 A. I think the motion referred to the number of
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
M
1 cases he was appearing pro hac vice in.
2
I'd have to see the motion and it's been some
3
time since
I looked at it, a year.
4
Q.
Well, you're understanding my word, are you not?
5
A.
I understand -- I understand your words, but
6
you're
asking me to recall beyond my ability to recall
7
is what
I'm saying.
8
Q.
Well, if you saw them or heard my words, what
9
would be
the difference?
10
A.
Well, there's a number of things -- you read one
11
paragraph
in the motioned. I'd like to read the whole
12
motion
to see what facts are in there.
13
Q.
That's just what we're going to do.
14
A.
Good. You told me you wouldn't show it to me,
15
but I'm
glad you're going to.
16
Q.
I'm not going to read the whole motion.
17
A.
All right. That way if I had a copy, I could see
18
whether,
in fact, you were reading the whole motion or
19
not.
20
Q.
You said that several times.
21
A.
That's the first time I think I've said that.
22
Q.
I don't think so.
23
You say that Jonathan was an out of state
24
attorney
who resided at his father's home in Gulf
25
Stream,
Florida.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
PIR
1 What is the factual basis for saying that that
2 constitutes the unlawful practice of law?
3 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to form. Document
4 speaks for itself.
5 THE WITNESS: That's a fact that was cited
6 in the motion.
7 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
8 Q. I have the motion. You say it's a fact?
9 A. Yeah, that your son represented to the
10 Pennsylvania Bar that he was living in Florida and that
11 he was not active in Pennsylvania.
12 Part of the rubric for the interstate law firm
13 would have required that Jonathan or some lawyer be
14 practicing in Pennsylvania. And the case is cited, it
15 tells you. Lawyers can't come here from out of state
16 and practice law and say, oh, I have an office in New
17 York and they have abandoned their office in New York.
18 If that happened, every lawyer in the country
19 could come from wherever they used to practice and say,
20 I'm practicing here as a Florida lawyer. And when you
21 ask, where's your main office, just say, oh, it's a post
22 office box. There's really no lawyer there.
23 If you read the case that's cited, there has to
24 be a lawyer running a bona fide office that's a parent
25 company in order to sponsor an interstate law firm.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1 And what I alleged, I believe, in the motion is
2 that before Jonathan was admitted in Florida, there was
3 a decision made to open the O'Boyle Law Firm in Florida,
4 that he was here full-time instead of waiting until he
5 passed the Bar to do that or instead of having some
6 other lawyer in Pennsylvania actually run a law firm in
7 Pennsylvania, that was the problem that was cited. And
8 that's what the attachments were filed to show.
9 Now, that's all I remember sitting here. I mean,
10 that's what I do remember sitting here. Unless you give
11 me more information.
12 Q. Who owned your office building where you keep
13 your offices?
14 A. That's my private financial information. I'm not
15 going to disclose that to you. I am not comfortable
16 talking about my assets, Mr. O'Boyle.
17 Q. It's public information, is it not? Isn't it on
18 the Palm Beach Tax Collector -- Tax Assessor's website?
19 A. The name of the entity?
20 Q. Yes.
21 A. I presume it is.
22 Q. Okay. So, who is it?
23 A. Sitting here, I couldn't even tell you the name
24 of the entity. I think it's the address, but I -- I'd
25 have to look.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
1
Q.
Okay.
2
A.
I think it's an LLC with the address.
3
Q.
I see. And who's the tenant?
4
A.
Who's the tenant?
5
Q.
Yes.
6
A.
My law firm occupies space there. Peter Sosa
7
occupies space there. Clients of mine occupy space
8
there.
9
Q.
Okay. Do you know a lawyer named Kevin Tynin?
10
A.
I don't believe I've ever met Mr. Tynin. I've
11
heard
of him.
12
Q.
Okay. Have you ever spoken to Mr. Tynin?
13
A.
I believe -- I believe when I was -- yes, I
14
believe
so or wrote to him. Spoke or wrote to him.
15
Q.
Who?
16
A.
Spoke or wrote. I believe I spoke, but I may
17
have only
written to him.
18
Q.
Okay. But you communicated with him?
19
A.
In some form I communicated with him.
20
Q.
And why would you contact Kevin Tynin?
21
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
22
THE WITNESS: Before filing the motion that
23
I filed, I saw -- I believe I saw some record
24
that referenced Mr. Tynin with regard to the
25
O'Boyle Law Firm.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
1 And I believe I either called or wrote him
2 with a series of questions about my concerns.
3 And I wanted to make sure I had his input with
4 regard to my investigation before I filed any
5 motion, if I can recall correctly.
6 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
7 Q. Generally stated, did he say that I agree that
8 Jonathan O'Boyle is engaged in the unlicensed practice
9 of law?
10 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to form.
11 THE WITNESS: No.
12 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
13 Q. What did he say?
14 A. I believe there's a letter.
15 Q. Okay.
16 A. And I'd have to see the letter to remember his
17 exact position.
18 Q. You don't remember one word?
19 A. I don't. I remember --
20 Q. You've explained earlier that you had an
21 obligation, as an example, as a lawyer if you saw
22 somebody in violation of the rules, you'd have to report
23 it.
24 If Mr. Tynin said to you that Jonathan O'Boyle,
25 his activities are in violation of the rules, such as --
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
1 I don't know if such as is right, the unlicensed
2 practice of law, you would have reported that, wouldn't
3 you?
4 A. I'm sorry?
5 Q. You would have reported that, would you not?
6 A. If Mr. Tynin would have said --
7 Q. That, when you spoke to him, yeah, Jonathan
8 O'Boyle, I know him, he's engaged in the unlicensed
9 practice of law?
10 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
11 THE WITNESS: If I believed there was
12 evidence of that sufficient that it triggered my
13 ethical obligations, I would exercise my ethical
14 obligations.
15 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
16 Q. And when you say "evidence of that", Mr. Tynin
17 saying that to you, as a member of the Bar in the State
18 of Florida, you would discount what he said and look for
19 additional evidence, tell me?
20 A. This is all hypothetical. But if an attorney
21 told me another attorney was engaged in the unlicensed
22 practice of law, I would probably -- I know I would want
23 other facts and evidence before I would ever make an
24 ethical complaint.
25 I don't think I've made -- I can't remember any
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1 ethical complaint regarding unlicensed practice of law.
2
I would not make that complaint without evidence. I
3
certainly
wouldn't make it based on some lawyer saying
4
that
without investigating it further.
5
Q.
Do you know what kind of lawyer he is?
6
A.
Mr. Tynin?
7
Q.
Yes.
8
A.
I don't know what kind of lawyer he is.
9
Q.
Okay.
10
A.
I think he's a Florida lawyer.
11
Q.
Well, he is a Florida lawyer. And I think if you
12
did a
little bit of due diligence, you would find that
13
he --
his practice is ethics.
14
A.
I'm aware that Mr. Tynin holds himself out as
15
someone who has experience with Bar matters. There's no
16
such
designation in the Bar that allows you to hold
17
yourself
out as being an ethics council. There's no
18
certification
for that.
19
But I know that he purports or suggests that he
20
has some
experience in that area.
21
Q.
Okay.
22
A.
But I know that from the communication --
23
Q.
Okay.
24
A.
-- I had with him.
25
Q.
And did he, after your communication where he, I
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
a
1 guess, wanted to know what your inquiry was, didn't he
2 call you to discuss Jonathan and didn't you not call him
3 back?
4
And if that's the case, would you consider your
5
conduct as being reckless lawyering?
6
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
7
THE WITNESS: You're refreshing my
8
recollection. I think that I indicated in the
9
correspondence that I proposed that all of our
10
communications be in writing so that I would have
11
a record of the communications because I was
12
making certain inquiries and I wanted a response
13
in writing.
14
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
15
Q.
And what you're saying is, Mr. Tynin just
16
disregarded your requests, is that what you're saying?
17
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
18
Mischaracterizes his testimony.
19
THE WITNESS: No, I'm not saying that.
20
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
21
Q.
What are you saying?
22
A.
Just what I said.
23
Q.
Can you say it again?
24
A.
It's in the record. I am not going to repeat
25
myself.
I've given you my testimony to your question.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1 If you have another question, please ask it.
2
MR. O'BOYLE: Madam court reporter, can you
3
read back Mr. Sweetapple answer, please, and go
4
into my question?
5
(Thereupon, the last pending question and
6
answer was; after which the following proceedings
7
were had:)
8
THE WITNESS: I answered it.
9
MR. O'BOYLE: Okay. Then, can you go back
10
one question and we'll find out for sure if
11
Mr. Sweetapple answered it.
12
(Thereupon, the last pending question and
13
answer was; after which the following proceedings
14
were had:)
15
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
16
Q.
Did you call Mr. Tynin back and say, I got your
17
phone
message but I need to make sure everything is in
18
writing, so would you be kind enough to put whatever you
19
have to
say in writing?
20
A.
I don't recall.
21
Q.
Do you have such a communication?
22
A.
An oral communication or written communication?
23
Q.
Well, written communication?
24
A.
I remember there was an exchange of
25
communications
in writing. I haven't seen them in over
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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1 two years, but I do recall there was an exchange.
2
Q.
Did Mr. Tynin ever write you?
3
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered?
4
THE WITNESS: I recall he did.
5
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
6
Q.
Okay. And you didn't write him back, did you?
7
A.
I think I wrote him and he wrote me back.
8
Q.
Okay. When he -- that could be.
9
And did he write you again?
10
A.
I'd have to -- I'd have to look at my file and
11
see all the correspondence that took place. I don't
12
remember.
13
Q.
Did you investigate Jonathan O'Boyle?
14
MR. HOCHMAN: Before we go on to the next
15
line of questioning, I'd ask this as the second
16
excerpt with Mr. Tynin through the next excerpt
17
as request number two.
18
THE WITNESS: Pardon? Did I investigate
19
Jonathan O'Boyle?
20
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
21
Q.
Yes.
22
A.
I am not going to disclose my work product other
23
than the
work product that's public record. And I think
24
you'll
see printouts and other documents that I obtained
25
that are attached to the motion.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
Y An
1 Q. In your May 2, 2014 letter to --
2 A. May I see a copy of it?
3 Q. No. To Jonathan O'Boyle, did you say in that
4 letter, during the course of my investigation?
5 A. I'd have to see the letter, but I don't think
6 I've ever written to Jonathan O'Boyle. You're talking
7 about Mr. Tynin.
8 Q. Talking about Jonathan O'Boyle?
9 A. You asked me about a letter I wrote to
10 Mr. Jonathan O'Boyle which I don't think I've ever
11 written to your son.
12 Q. Okay. Well, you're wrong.
13 A. Okay.
14 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Move to strike commentary.
15 THE WITNESS: If you can show me a letter,
16 maybe it will refresh my recollection.
17 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
18 Q. I understand. Generally stated, what we have in
19 this, what I'm going to call the corral, is a RICO suit,
20 some records suits, and a few others, such as this one,
21 slander suit, I think you said something about Cafi
22 suing you. I think that's what you said, would that be
23 correct?
24 A. What question are you asking me there?
25 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to form.
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1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2
Q.
Okay. Is Cafi suing you?
3
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
4
THE WITNESS: Cafi has sued my law firm.
5
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
6
Q.
Okay. Is it suing you?
7
A.
I don't think I'm a named Defendant in that case.
8
Q.
Okay. You're familiar with the RICO suit which
9
rests
in piece. That's a suit that you were heavily
10
involved
in the preparation of, correct?
11
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to form.
12
THE WITNESS: I was involved in it. Heavily
13
is a term you used. I mean, I worked on that
14
case.
15
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
16
Q.
Okay. And who did you work on the case with?
17
A.
I worked -- Well, the lawyers that worked on the
18
case included
Mr. Richmond, several lawyers in his firm,
19
Joann
O'Connor, that's all I remember.
20
Q.
Okay. So, that's all. No more lawyers?
21
A.
There could have been more, I don't remember.
22
Q.
Okay. So, it may have been more than five or
23
six?
24
A.
Yeah.
25
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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1 THE WITNESS: Mr. Richmond had a team of
2 lawyers that worked quite a bit on the case.
3 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
4 Q. Okay. Why, in this letter to Jonathan O'Boyle,
5 did you make this statement, "all Philadelphia residents
6 owe and must pay the city income tax regardless of where
7 they work".
8 A. That's a letter to Jonathan O'Boyle?
9 Q. Yes.
10 A. What's the date of that?
11 Q. Just asking about the statements?
12 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
13 THE WITNESS: That's -- why I make
14 statements is my work product. I am not
15 comfortable giving my work product.
16 It would have been a result of legal
17 research, I presume.
18 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
19 Q. Okay. Well, give me -- you are making a
20 statement in that letter that is certainly not
21 privileged?
22 A. I'm not claiming the letter's privileged, I'm
23 claiming -- First of all, I need to see the statement
24 because I don't know the context of it nor do I remember
25 it specifically.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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1 But what I'm saying to you is, why I would make a
2 legal statement or make a legal -- an inquiry regarding
3 a legal topic would be my thought process, my mental
4 impressions, my work product, a result of my research
5 and I'm not comfortable telling you why I make
6 statements or take positions. As a lawyer, I tell my
7 client's that generally not my opposing opinions.
8 Q. Give me your lay opinion?
9 A. My lay opinion of what?
10 Q. You say here, all Philadelphia residents owe and
11 must pay the city income tax regardless of where they
12 work. It's either work product, which you say it is and
13 I'm asking you just for your lay opinion as to what that
14 is?
15 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form. Asked
16 and answered.
17 THE WITNESS: I think it means what it says.
1B Sounds like it was a legal opinion I expressed,
19 not a lay opinion. Sounds like it was a legal
20 opinion I expressed.
21 But I told you, I'm -- even if I could
22 remember, I would not tell you the subject of my
23 research, who I spoke to, how I came to that
24 conclusion. That would be my mental impressions
25 and work product.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2
Q.
You say in this document --
3
A.
What document are you referring to?
4
Q.
The one that I have in my hand.
5
A.
Well, what is it?
6
Q.
I'm only asking you about a statement you made.
7
You're
saying to Jonathan, you swore that you were
8
domiciled
and permanently resided in Long Port, New
9
Jersey.
10
Now, I'm just curious, why in the world would you
11
make such a statement?
12
MR. GOLDSTEIN: I'm going to object to the
13
form. If you want to have him answer questions
14
as to specific statements in the document, I'm
15
going to request that you show him the document
16
because I can't confirm what you're reading --
17
that you're specifically reading is exactly set
16
forth in the document.
19
MR. O'BOYLE: Mr. Sweetapple?
20
THE WITNESS: I'd have to see the document
21
to know what was said, how it was said, to whom
22
it was said. You're reading things to me saying
23
that I said them. I don't even know that I said
24
them.
25
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
Mr
1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. Or that I wrote them.
4 Q. I understand.
5 MR. HOCHMAN: Mr. Sweetapple, my
6 understanding is that, he's asking you why and
7 you're asking him if you want me to answer why,
8 let me see the document for the context.
9 THE WITNESS: That's the only way I can
10 answer it.
11 MR. HOCHMAN: I understand. Mr. O'Boyle,
12 are you willing to give him the document?
13 MR. O'BOYLE: I am not.
14 MR. HOCHMAN: Okay.
15 MR. GOLDSTEIN: I'm just going to state on
16 the record that I'm going -- as a standing
17 objection to any line of questioning regarding a
18 document that he's currently questions about
19 based upon his refusal to provide the witness
20 with a copy.
21 MR. O'BOYLE: Madam court reporter and
22 Mr. Goldstein, Mr. Hochman, if it will make it
23 easier, I will accept a blanket objection on any
24 and every question. And after you get the
25 transcript, you can have a ball.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1
You don't have to make -- waste time. You
2
will have already made it.
3
MR. HOCHMAN: I am not sure the federal
4
civil procedure will allow me to do that with
5
you, who's a non -lawyer.
6
So, I would like that and I'll accept it,
7
but I am not certain I don't waive it. I'm
8
concerned about that.
9
MR. O'BOYLE: Well, I don't want you to
10
waive anything. Can you, maybe, during lunch,
11
can you make inquiry. It would just save us a
12
bunch of time, that's all.
13
MR. HOCHMAN: Well, I am not certain that if
14
I do that, that I'm not waiving something on
15
behalf of the Town. I'm uncomfortable with it.
16
I would suggest to you that the question
17
would go easier if you -- if you're going to ask
18
why would you say something in a document, that
19
you produce the document to the witness and he
20
can look at it and give you an answer.
21
The way that you're doing it, I would
22
suggest to you, doesn't help you. And I think
23
it's appropriate objection. And I think it will
24
go faster if you didn't ask a why question.
25
MR. O'BOYLE: Thank you.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2 Q. Mr. Sweetapple, do you have any evidence that
3 Jonathan O'Boyle is currently domiciled in other than
4 Long Port, New Jersey?
5 A. I don't know where Jonathan O'Boyle is currently
6 domiciled.
7 Q. And so, that's a no, you have no evidence?
8 A. I have no evidence where he's currently
9 domiciled.
10 Q. Okay. And on May 2, 2014, which is the date of
11 this document that I know you dire highly want to see,
12 do you have any knowledge as it where Jonathan O'Boyle
13 was domiciled?
14 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Renew my objection.
15 THE WITNESS: As I sit here, I do not
16 recall. I would have to look at my files.
17 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
18 Q. Okay.
19 A. And my work product.
20 Q. Okay. Do you have any knowledge that Jonathan
21 O'Boyle does not currently reside in Long Port, New
22 Jersey?
23 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
24 THE WITNESS: No.
25
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
MCA
1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2 Q. When you communicated with Mr. Tynin, did you
3 speak about the UPL?
4 A. I don't remember speaking to Mr. Tynin.
5 Q. You don't remember ever speaking with him?
6 A. Not specifically. I told you, I don't know if it
7 was oral or in writing.
8 Q. Right. But forget the word specifically, do you
9 remember ever speaking to him?
10 A. No, I can't say that I remember having an oral
11 conversation with him.
12 Q. Okay. Have you ever heard of 2146 East
13 Huntington Street, Philadelphia?
14 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Form.
15 THE WITNESS: Is that an address that was
16 used in a writing?
17 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
18 Q. It is.
19 A. I can't specify a certain address without seeing
20 it. I don't relate that address to any specific thing
21 without seeing the writing.
22 Q. Okay. The writing -- and by the way, the letter
23 that I'm looking at has numbered paragraphs, essentially
24 bullets.
25 A. Who's the letter addressed to?
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1 Q. Pardon?
2 A. Who is the letter addressed to?
3 Q. I already answered that, but I'll read it again,
4 Jonathan O'Boyle, Jonathan O'Boyle, Jonathan O'Boyle.
5 A. It's addressed to him?
6 Q. Three times.
7 A. Okay.
8 Q. And the paragraphs or the content that I'm
9 talking about is in numbered paragraphs. And before
10 those numbered paragraphs it says, during the course of
11 my investigation, I noted the following matters. And
12 then after that you put in 11 paragraphs.
13 And paragraph number three, which has about ten
14 words, says 2146 East Huntington Street, address in
15 Philadelphia, seems to be a residential property owned
16 by a family member.
17 I know we talked about that address not in the
18 context of what I'm looking at now, but there's nothing
19
wrong with an address that you have on
your,
I guess,
20
registration or whatever, that's owned
by a
family
21
member, is there?
made aware
of and I
22 A. You already asked me that and you refreshed my
23 recollection because before I communicated in writing
24
with Mr.
Tynin, I made inquiry
of a
Jonathan O'Boyle
25
regarding
the facts that I have
been
made aware
of and I
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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1
asked
him to respond to a series of questions. You
2
refreshed
my recollection, I remember that.
3
Q.
When you said "asked him", Jonathan?
4
A.
Jonathan. I wrote Jonathan and before I --
5
before
I communicated with Mr. Tynin.
6
Q.
Okay.
7
A.
So, before I took any position in the motion, I
8
asked
Jonathan his position with regard to topics and
9
then I
remember some correspondence with Mr. Tynin.
10
So, if you would have shown that to me, you could
11
have refreshed
my recollection a lot sooner. Thank you.
12
Q.
Did you ever hear Johnstown, Pennsylvania?
13
A.
I remember making some reference to it in some
14
writing.
15
Q.
And do you have an idea what the content was?
16
A.
Some allegation that -- or some evidence or some
17
fact that
Jonathan had claimed that he was practicing
18
there,
something like that.
19
Q.
Was he practicing there?
20
A.
I don't have any personal knowledge myself.
21
Q.
Do you know anybody else who has personal
22
knowledge?
23
A.
I am not going to divulge my work product to you
24
in terms of how I obtained evidence or what evidence I
25
obtained.
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1 Q. Do you think that's evidence where his office --
2 where he has his office, do you think that's evidence?
3 A. Yes, I think that's something that's in that
4 motion, that was in that motion or ultimately was a
5 factor in the motion.
6 Q. It was certainly in the motion.
7 But wouldn't it be the case if this motion went
8 before a judge that your opponent, whether it be
9 Mitchell Burger, Elaine, John himself, wouldn't they ask
10 the question and wouldn't you have to answer -- in other
11 words, you wouldn't be able to say, work product, I'm
12 not answering.
13 Accusing a guy of UPL, but I am not telling you
14 why because it's work product. Do you think you would
15 get away with that?
16 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
17 THE WITNESS: I can't speculate.
18 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
19 Q. You can't speculate?
20 A. As to what would happen in a proceeding? No.
21 Q. Okay. When you were in college or law school,
22 mail or other important documents, did you receive them
23 in college and law school?
24 And let me just give you an example. You made an
25 application to law school while you were in college, I'm
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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1 assuming. Sometimes in college, things get misplaced or
2 slowed down and so on and so forth.
3 Did you give your address in college or did you
4 give your parents, your brother, your wife, if you were
5 married, as an address that you knew that someone would
6 receive it and call you up and say, Bob, we just got
7 your admission to A, B, C school, did you get those
8 important documents in college or did you get them at
9 someone's house that you knew was going to be vigilant?
10 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
11 THE WITNESS: Would you mind having that
12 read back? I counted seven questions. Don't
13 know which one you want answered.
14 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
15 Q. Okay. Let's start with number one and then we
16 can go right down to number seven.
17 A. Okay. Want to have her go number one, I think,
18 was whether or not I used -- why don't we read them,
19 read that back and I'll write them out with a piece of
20 paper and then I can try to answer them.
21 You want to have her read it back slowly for me.
22 MR. O'BOYLE: Yes. Young lady, would you
23 read back slowly for him.
24
25
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1
(Thereupon,
the last pending question was
2
read back; after
which the following proceedings
3
were had:)
4
THE WITNESS:
You want to know if I received
5
mail in college.
Yes, I received mail in
6
college and I received them in law school.
7
Keep going.
8
(Thereupon,
the last pending question was
9
read back; after
which the following proceedings
10
were had:)
11
THE WITNESS:
Yes, let me answer that. Yes,
12
I made application
to law school. I was in
13
college.
14
Okay. What's
the next question.
15
(Thereupon,
the last pending question was
16
read back; after
which the following proceedings
17
were had:)
18
THE WITNESS:
In college, I had a residence
19
in Florida that was
my domicile address. In law
20
school I had the
same address, it was on my
21
driver's license.
22
My brother,
I don't think I gave. I
23
didn't have a wife
at the time. I didn't give my
24
parents. I did give
my parents, I mean. In
25
college and law school,
my address was 6800
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1
Northwest 6th Street, Plantation, Florida,
2
33432.
3
(Thereupon, the last pending question was
4
read back; after which the following proceedings
5
were had:)
6
THE WITNESS: Any important documents came
7
to the address in college and law school that I
8
maintained which was my parent's address in
9
Plantation, Florida.
10
Did I answer your questions?
11
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
12
Q.
I think so.
13
A.
Good.
14
Q.
Now, in connection with --
15
A.
And by the way, it's 12:25. Can we break for
16
lunch
when you are done with this topic?
17
MR. O'BOYLE: We can do it right now.
18
THE WITNESS: Well, go ahead and finish the
19
topic, I'm not starving to death.
20
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
21
Q.
Okay. Now, in your -- one or more of your
22
filings regarding Jonathan O'Boyle and the unpublished
23
practice of law, Jonathan -- if he were in college and
24
were --
or law school -- and by the way, I'm going to
25
use those interchangeably.
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1 If he were in college or in law school, it would
2 not be unusual for him to utilize his parent's address,
3 forgetting his mail, particularly his important mail
4 that he may be waiting for, would it?
5 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
6 THE WITNESS: Would it be -- would it be
7 unusual, is that the question.
8 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
9 Q. Yes.
10 A. I don't think so.
11 Q. Okay. Then, why did you raise it in your papers
12 that he was -- he was showing the Pennsylvania Bar that
13 his -- that his residence was in Florida? Why did you
14 raise that?
15 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
16 THE WITNESS: Asset forth in the motion.
17 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
18 Q. Okay.
19 A. And the case that was cited.
20 Q. Okay. So --
21 A. It was evidence that there was no bona fide law
22 firm in Pennsylvania. There was only one lawyer in the
23 supposed Pennsylvania law firm; it was Jonathan O'Boyle.
24 He decided to tell the Pennsylvania Bar that he
25 was not actively practicing in Pennsylvania and that he
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1 was living in Florida. That's not a law school get mail
2 situation, it's a statement he's made to the Bar where
3 he's actively practicing.
4 Then, in order to open up the O'Boyle Law Firm in
5 Florida, representations were made that it was a branch
6 of an active Pennsylvania law firm and it was being run
7 by Jonathan O'Boyle. Yet, Jonathan O'Boyle made
8 contrary representations, did not appear based on the
9 evidence that's put in the record, to have been
10 practicing and residing in Pennsylvania because he was
11 inactive there.
12 So, there's a case that's right on point that I
13 cited to the court. So, that's why I made that
14 reference. So, I'm giving you the benefits of my
15 analysis, it's in the motion.
16 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
17 Q. I'm looking attached to your motion --
18 A. Excuse me, why are we talking about my motion in
19 a different case that's pending?
20 Q. Because that's what I want to do.
21 A. Okay. You haven't asked me one question about
22 slander or defamation since I've been here.
23 Q. Well, sounds like the deposition you took of me,
24 but I think you will find that I'm gaining great
25 knowledge here.
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1 A. That's not --
2 Q. And I appreciate it.
3 I'm looking at a document that it's Exhibit C to
4 your Motion to Disqualify and it says, Jonathan was
5 admitted to the Bar on 11/13/2012 with a public access
6 address of 23 Hidden Harbor Drive, Gulf Stream, Florida.
7 Is there anything wrong with that?
8 A. I don't know.
9 Q. Give me your lay opinion?
10 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
11 THE WITNESS: I have no -- I have no
12 knowledge of anything wrong with what you just
13 said.
14 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
15 Q. Okay. 1001 Broad Street, Johnstown,
16 Pennsylvania, do you know anything about that address?
17 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form. Asked
18 and answered.
19 THE WITNESS: As I sit here now, no, I
20 don't.
21 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
22 Q. Okay. Do you think you ever knew anything about
23 that address?
24 A. I think it was something that was the subject of
25 a motion, letter, inquiry regarding the un -- the
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1 allegation that the O'Boyle Law Firm was engaged in the
2 unauthorized practice of law.
3
Q.
And how would an address -- and of course it's an
4
exhibit
to your motion, how would an address fit into
5
the unlicensed
practice of law? It's not like you're
6
going
to run around with a lottery ticket and say I won.
7
How would
it will fit?
8
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
9
THE WITNESS: You want my legal opinion, you
10
want my work product or do you want me to recite
11
what's in the motion?
12
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
13
Q.
I want your lay opinion.
14
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
15
THE WITNESS: I don't have a lay opinion. I
16
have a legal opinion.
17
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
18
Q.
Then, give me your legal opinion?
19
A.
I am not going to give you my legal opinion.
20
Q.
Then give me your lay upon?
21
A.
I don't have a lay opinion. My opinion is based
22
on my
study of the law.
23
Q.
Okay. And by the way, we can break for lunch
24
anytime
at all?
25
A.
I want you to, you know, finish the topic you're
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1 on and then we can -- tell me when you are done and
2 we'll take a break and then we'll come back and start
3 something new.
4 MR. O'BOYLE: Well, I think I got, at least,
5 an hour.
6 THE WITNESS: On the unauthorized practice
7 of law?
8 MR. O'BOYLE: Yeah.
9 THE WITNESS: Well then, maybe you should
10 break for lunch.
11 MR. O'BOYLE: Okay.
12 THE WITNESS: Let's do that.
13 MR. GOLDSTEIN: I need to use the restroom.
14 So, let's just do that for a minute and then
15 we'll figure it out.
16 THE WITNESS: Let's take a two -minute break
17 and we'll talk and see how we're doing as far as
18 eating goes.
19 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Okay.
20 MR. HOCHMAN: Madam court reporter, do you
21 have a preference as to what we do?
22 THE COURT REPORTER: No.
23 (Thereupon, a recess was taken; after which
24 the following proceedings were had:)
25
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1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2
Q.
Bear with me for --
3
MR. HOCHMAN: Are you ready to proceed?
4
MR. O'BOYLE: Give me just a moment.
5
(Thereupon, a recess was taken; after which
6
the following proceedings were had:)
7
MR. O'BOYLE: Did you say we were back on
8
the record?
9
MR. HOCHMAN: We tried, but then you said
10
you needed a minute.
11
MR. O'BOYLE: Ask for a minute and then you
12
get an hour.
13
Madam court reporter, are we now on the
14
record?
15
THE COURT REPORTER: Yes.
16
MR. O'BOYLE: Thank you.
17
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
18
Q.
Mr. Sweetapple, have you ever heard of a young
19
lady,
I say young lady, Ms. Michelle Gavagni,
20
G -A -V -A
-G -N -I, does that name ring a bell with you?
21
A.
No.
22
Q.
Okay. Now, about Ms. Michelle Gavagni, Florida
23
Director
of Board of Bar Examiners at 1891 Higher
24
Court
--
25
A.
That's familiar.
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1
Q.
That is familiar?
2
A.
Yeah.
3
Q.
Okay. And you wrote to her, didn't you?
4
A.
I believe so.
5
Q.
Okay. And what would you have written to her
6
about?
7
A.
I believe that's confidential.
8
Q.
A letter to the Bar on the unlicensed practice of
9
law?
10
A.
I think any letters to the Board of Bar Examiners
11
are confidential, that's my understanding.
12
Q.
Okay. I think you're incorrect.
13
And I'm going to ask you to answer it or if it
14
would
make you feel better, when we do break, you could
15
check
and confirm that I'm wrong or confirm that I'm
16
right
and then we can go on, okay?
17
A.
As you see fit. Ask me questions. I mean,
18
I'll
--
19
Q.
Okay. Do you have a duty to report, I guess,
20
improper character to the Character and Fitness
21
Committee?
22
A.
What Character and Fitness Committee?
23
Q.
The one with the Bar Association, I'm sorry.
24
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
25
THE WITNESS: I'm unaware of a Character and
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1
Fitness Association with the Bar Association.
2
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
3
Q.
Okay. September 3, 2014, does that date ring a
4
bell with
you?
5
A.
I think that's the date of the settlement
6
conference and that was to be treated as mediation and
7
it was
at my office, if I'm not mistaken.
8
Q.
When you say "treated as mediation", as a matter
9
of law?
10
A.
Are you asking me for my legal opinion?
11
Q.
No. You just said an affirmative statement.
12
A.
The statements -- I'm sorry, the agreements to be
13
maintained
confidential, I think, as mediation or as a
14
mediation.
15
Q.
But what's written on the piece of paper doesn't
16
necessarily carry the day, does it?
17
A.
Are you asking me for my legal opinion?
18
Q.
I'm asking you, you are the author and I'm asking
19
you?
20
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
21
THE WITNESS: What's on a written piece of
22
paper, does it always carry the day?
23
My legal opinion -- I'll give you my legal
24
opinion.
25
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1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2
Q.
Okay.
3
A.
Lawyers argue over documents all the time and are
4
interpreted differently all the time based on law,
5
facts.
6
Q.
Okay. That September 3rd document or that
7
September 3rd meeting, or I guess you spoke, there is
8
just a
document that emanated from that meeting?
9
A.
There's a document that was signed before the
10
meeting.
11
Q.
Okay. And who has that document?
12
A.
I think everyone that was there got a copy of it,
13
I believe.
14
Q.
Okay. And what went on during that meeting?
15
A.
That was a private confidential settlement
16
discussion to be treated as mediation and I would not be
17
comfortable talking about that.
18
Q.
Okay. And have you gotten a third party opinion
19
from a
lawyer who has affirmed what you just said?
20
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
21
THE WITNESS: I wouldn't -- I wouldn't
22
disclose to you any opinions that I've gotten
23
from my client, from another lawyer.
24
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
25
Q.
So --
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1
A.
It's privileged.
2
Q.
So, there's really, then, no way that we could
3
know whether it's -- I am not sure I'm going to use the
4
right
term, whether it's confidential except what you
5
said?
6
A.
No.
7
Q.
Okay. How else would we know?
8
A.
Have the Judge determine it.
9
Q.
Okay. But as of today, is it confidential or
10
not?
11
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
12
THE WITNESS: My understanding is that it's
13
confidential.
14
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
15
Q.
Okay. And your understanding is based on?
16
A.
My understanding is based on my understanding of
17
the law.
18
Q.
Okay. What was the meeting about?
19
A.
I am not --
20
MR. GOLDSTEIN: He's answered.
21
THE WITNESS: I am not going to disclose the
22
contents of the meeting.
23
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
24
Q.
Was Mr. O'Hare there?
25
A.
Mr. O'Hare was there.
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1 Q. Okay. Jonathan O'Boyle, his attorney, was he
2 invited there?
3 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
4 THE WITNESS: I don't know anything about
5 the communications between Mr. O'Hare and
6 Jonathan O'Boyle.
7 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
8 Q. Did you know that Jonathan O'Boyle was one of
9 Mr. O'Hare's counsel and was handling many of the
10 lawsuits against Gulf Stream on his behalf?
11 A. On August -- on September 3, 2014?
12 Q. September 3, 2014, yes.
13 A. Are you saying that Jonathan O'Boyle was
14 Mr. O'Hare's lawyer and represented him on numerous
15 matters that were pending?
16 Q. That's my recollection, yes.
17 A. I don't believe that Jonathan O'Boyle was a
18 member of the Florida Bar at that time, sir.
19 Q. Well then, I could be very wrong. The O'Boyle
20 Law Firm, they represented Mr. O'Hare in multiple
21 litigations at that time.
22 A. I believe they did present Mr. O'Hare in a number
23 of cases.
24 Q. Didn't you have an obligation to notify
25 Mr. O'Hare's counsel rather than put him in a meeting
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1 and let him fend for himself?
2
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
3
THE WITNESS: You're asking me for a legal
4
conclusion?
5
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
6
Q.
No.
7
A.
I'm not going to give you my legal conclusion.
8
Q.
Then, give me your lay opinion.
9
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
10
THE WITNESS: It's not a matter of a lay
11
opinion. I have a firm legal conclusion that I'm
12
not going to give you.
13
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
14
Q.
Well, I'm entitled to your lay opinion.
15
A.
I don't have a lay opinion. A lay person
16
wouldn't
have a legal opinion on this.
17
Q.
Okay. So, you think it's strictly a legal
18
opinion
whether or not you invite a client's lawyer to a
19
meeting
with the client, is that what you're saying?
20
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
21
THE WITNESS: No.
22
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
23
Q.
What are you saying?
24
A.
I'm trying to answer your question.
25
Q.
Well, try again.
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1 A. Ask me the question again, I'll try again.
2 MR. O'BOYLE: Madam court reporter, I call
3 upon you.
4 (Thereupon, the last pending question was
5 read back; after which the following proceedings
6 were had:)
7 THE WITNESS: And my answer is the same, I
8 believe that ultimately is a legal opinion.
9 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
10 Q. Okay. Have you ever told anyone about that
11 meeting?
12 A. I am not going to discuss anything that I've
13 discussed with clients or staff. And I'm sure I've
14 discussed it with my client and staff.
15 Q. Well, let's go beyond that. Let's go to the
16 bowling alley. Let's go to --
17 A. I'll answer one question at a time. I haven't
18 been to a bowling alley in some time, but I can safely
19 say no.
20 Q. Okay. How about at one of the clubs in Delray or
21 Gulf Stream?
22 A. No, I don't believe I've disclosed the content of
23 the confidential settlement discussion to anyone outside
24 in a club or anything of that nature.
25 Q. When you say, "anyone outside the club" --
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1
A.
Anyone outside of the legal protected group, like
2
in the
public is what I mean.
3
Q.
Who is the legal protected group?
4
A.
My staff, my associates, my co -counsel.
5
Q.
I'm listening.
6
A.
That's it. My client.
7
Q.
Am I remembering right, that earlier you said
8
that a
lawyer is obligated to report behavior that
9
violates the Bar rules to the Bar?
10
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
11
THE WITNESS: My answer's in the record.
12
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
13
Q.
Would you answer again, please.
14
A.
No, because I answered it two or three times
15
already.
16
MR. O'BOYLE: Counsel, would you ask
17
Mr. Sweetapple to answer?
18
MR. GOLDSTEIN: I believe he's answered the
19
question.
20
MR. O'BOYLE: I don't believe that he has
21
answered that question.
22
MR. GOLDSTEIN: I believe --
23
MR. O'BOYLE: If you're instructing him not
24
to answer --
25
MR. GOLDSTEIN: I'm not -- Mr. O'Boyle, I am
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1
not instructing him. I'm telling you that he
2
answered that question several times now.
3
MR. O'BOYLE: Would you kindly certify that,
4
madam court reporter.
5
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
6
Q.
Mr. Sweetapple, I'm going to ask you for your lay
7
opinion as to whether a lawyer is obligated to report
8
behavior that violates Bar rules to the Bar?
9
A.
I don't have a lay opinion.
10
Q.
You don't have a lay opinion, correct?
11
Okay. The September 3rd meeting in 2014 that we
12
just spoke about a few moments ago, Ms. O'Connor was
13
there,
was she?
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
Okay. Did you have a duty to report her to the
16
Bar for
her attendance in that September 3rd meeting?
17
A.
You're asking me for my legal conclusion.
18
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
19
THE WITNESS: I will not give you my legal
20
conclusions. You're asking me for my legal
21
conclusions.
22
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
23
Q.
Can I have your lay opinion?
24
A.
I don't have a lay opinion.
25
Q.
So, you strictly have a legal conclusion or legal
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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1 opinion
which
you
won't
answer and you
do not
have a lay
2 opinion
just
so I
have
it right, would
that be
right?
3 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
4 THE WITNESS: Yes, that's exactly what I
5 just said. You just repeated what I just said.
6 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
7 Q. I just want to make sure that I got it right.
8 A. I can move closer to you if you need to hear it
9 or --
10 Q. No, no, it's not a question of hearing, it's a
11 question of sometimes absorbing. And what I would hate
12 to do is to move forward, and it happens, what I would
13 hate to do is to move forward and assume an answer that
14 was not correct. I would rather confirm it which I
15 think is a reasonable, prudent thing to do.
16 A. All right. I would appreciate it if you would
17 have it read back rather than just repeatedly ask me
18 questions --
19 MR. GOLDSTEIN: There's no question pending.
20 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
21 Q. Okay. Do you think your interactions with
22 Joel Chandler constitutes a conspiracy?
23 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
24 THE WITNESS: Does my interactions with
25 Joel Chandler constitute a conspiracy?
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1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2
Q.
That was the question.
3
A.
That would be a legal opinion and I'm not going
4
to give you my legal opinion.
5
Q.
Okay. So, I take it that the answer is yes or
6
you don't know?
7
A.
You can take --
8
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Mischaracterizes testimony.
9
THE WITNESS: You want me to answer that or
10
is that a question?
11
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
12
Q.
Your counsel interrupted us, but please answer.
13
A.
So, your question is, you take that as a yes or a
14
what?
15
Q.
I don't know?
16
A.
That's your prerogative. That's not my answer.
17
Q.
Your letter to the Bar, to Ms. Gavagni, like the
18
other
letter you have numbered paragraphs, here there's
19
only four
and I'm going to pick the shortest one.
20
A videotaped deposition and transcript of
21
Martin
O'Boyle. Did I violate any of the Bar rules?
22
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
23
THE WITNESS: A videotaped transcript of
24
Martin O'Boyle?
25
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1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2
Q.
A videotaped deposition and transcript of
3
Martin
O'Boyle.
4
A.
In other words, did you violate any Florida
5
rules?
6
Q.
Yeah.
7
A.
That's a legal opinion and you're asking me for a
8
legal
opinion. I'm not going to give you a legal
9
opinion.
10
Q.
Okay. In your lay opinion, did I violate any of
11
the rules?
12
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
13
THE WITNESS: The Bar rules?
14
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
15
Q.
Yeah.
16
A.
I don't have a lay opinion concerning Bar rules.
17
Q.
Okay. Why did you send Ms. Gavagni?
18
MR. HOCHMAN: Can you do me a favor, can you
19
spell that for me because you pronounced it a
20
couple different ways.
21
MR. O'BOYLE: G -A -V -A -G -N -I.
22
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
23
Q.
Why would you send a transcript and video
24
deposition
on me, another lawyer, to the Bar?
25
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
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1 THE WITNESS: I would presume -- I need to
2 see the letter, but I would presume there was
3 testimony in that document that concerned the
4 subject of the letter.
5 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
6 Q. Letter says, in furtherance of complaints,
7 plural, filed against Jonathan O'Boyle and the O'Boyle
8 Law Firm, I have enclosed the following; and there are
9 four items.
10 And then it says, we're forwarding these
11 materials to you in furtherance of the Town of Gulf
12 Stream complaint pursuant to our obligation under the
13 rules regulating the Florida Bar, 4-5.5 and 4-8.3?
14 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
15 Document speaks for itself.
16 THE WITNESS: What are you asking me about
17 the letter?
18 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
19 Q. Okay.
20 A. I'd like to see it to refresh my recollection. I
21 don't have a -- I haven't seen that in, I don't know how
22 long, years.
23 Q. Why did you forward the materials to Ms. Gavagni
24 at the Bar, why did you forward those materials?
25 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object. Calls for a mental
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1 impression, work product.
2 THE WITNESS: I'm not going to answer based
3 on legal communications with my client, my legal
4 opinion, my mental impressions.
5 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
6 Q. Can you give me your lay opinion?
7 A. I don't behave as a lawyer based on lay opinion.
8 I behave as a lawyer based on my legal opinions and
9 based on my instructions or communications with clients.
10 Q. But certainly you have lay opinions. I mean,
11 when you see a bowl of spaghetti, you don't look up case
12 law, you pick up a fork and you eat the bowl of
13 spaghetti, am I right?
14 A. Sometimes I use a spoon.
15 Q. Or a spoon, that's -- that's fine. Sometimes I
16 use a fork and a spoon.
17 A. Me as well.
18 Q. So, you do have lay opinions?
19 A. I think we all have lay opinions.
20 Q. Okay.
21 A. I don't have lay opinions about legal matters.
22 Q. Okay. In here you talk about an article
23 published by the Florida Center For Investigative
24 Reporting concerning the O'Boyle Law Firm and Citizens
25 Awareness Foundation, Inc.
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1 What was your objective in sending that to
2 Ms. Gavagni?
3 MR. GOLDSTEIN: And I'm going to object to
4 the form and again, renew my previous objection.
5 If you'd like to ask him questions about
6 statements made in the letter, I prefer you show
7 him the letter so that we can assure that what,
8 in fact, you are reading is accurate and he can
9 see the document that you're referring to.
10 MR. HOCHMAN: And let me just make another
11 statement. On behalf of the Town, if we want to
12 ask this witness questions about this letter at
13 trial, we're going to do that.
14 And if you choose not to inquiry based upon
15 having him look at the letter and doing it
16 appropriately, you do so at your parallel.
17 But I'm letting you know, if you object to
18 us questioning at trial, if there's a trial in
19 this case, going through the letter and step by
20 step, what his thinking was, you can either have
21 that opportunity now or we will take our position
22 at trial, okay.
23 MR. O'BOYLE: Thank you.
24 MR. HOCHMAN: Okay.
25
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1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2
Q.
If I told you I had a copy of your September 3rd
3
document,
would that be all right with you?
4
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
5
THE WITNESS: My September 3rd, what
6
document.
7
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
8
Q.
The only document I know of September 3rd, the
9
one we
spoke about a little earlier, the one that was
10
signed
by -- something about mediation and so forth. We
11
talked
about it earlier?
12
A.
I --
13
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Form.
14
THE WITNESS: I believe that's public
15
record. I don't think there's anything
16
confidential about the document.
17
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
18
Q.
Okay. What would be confidential?
19
A.
What the document says, what the parties were
20
meeting
for, settlement conference to be treated as
21
mediation.
Everything they discussed was to be
22
confidential
and treated as mediation.
23
Q.
So, that would be in the document then, would it
24
not?
25
A.
No. If there was a settlement agreement at the
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1 end, that would be put in a document. That would, also,
2 be a public record.
3 But the oral communications that occur, the law
4 encourages settlement and confidential settlement
5 conferences so people can resolve their differences
6 without those matters being discussed outside that
7 setting and that's what we were attempting to do.
8 Q. Would you object if Mr. O'Hare, who was at the
9 meeting from recalling what you said, came forward and,
10 in fairness to all the parties, alerting the Bar
11 Association whatever and shared what was the content of
12 that September 3rd, what I'm going to call, the
13 mediation document?
14 A. That's a legal conclusion. It's a legal opinion.
15 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
16 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
17 Q. Okay. Would you personally object to it?
18 A. That's my legal -- it would depend on my legal
19 opinion.
20 Q. Okay. What is your lay opinion?
21 A. I don't have a lay opinion about legal matters.
22 Q. Okay. Mr. Chandler, there's a --
23 A. By the way, it's about 1:15. So if, maybe, at
24 1:30 we can take a break at lunch, I'm starting to get
25 hungry now. So, 15 more minutes if you don't mind.
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1
MR. O'BOYLE:
We can do it right now.
2
THE WITNESS:
No, go ahead. I don't want to
3
interrupt you.
4
MR. O'BOYLE:
You're not interrupting
5
because I'm going into
something else that would
6
take a while.
7
THE WITNESS:
Okay. It's a great time to
8
take a lunch.
9
MR. HOCHMAN:
Right now, according to my
10
watch, it's now 1:11.
11
THE WITNESS:
One hour.
12
MR. O'BOYLE:
An hour-ish. Downstairs, you
13
just don't know what
you're going to be
14
confronted it with.
15
By the way, are
you buying?
16
THE WITNESS:
No. If we ever settle, I'll
17
buy.
18
MR. O'BOYLE:
The cameras are on and I just
19
don't want anybody
to forget.
20
MR. GOLDSTEIN:
He might hold you to it.
21
(Thereupon, a
recess was taken for lunch;
22
after which the following proceedings were had.
23
MR. O'BOYLE:
Are we on the record?
24
THE COURT REPORTER: Yes.
25
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1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2
Q.
Mr. Sweetapple, how was it that you became
3
special
counsel, as Mr. Morgan calls it, to Gulf Stream?
4
A.
That requires lawyer/client communication. It's
5
privileged.
6
Q.
Okay. Can you answer it other than a legal
7
fashion,
as a laymen?
8
A.
No, because what I was told was from the client
9
in anticipation
or after being retained.
10
Q.
I'm sorry?
11
A.
No, I can't.
12
Q.
And can you tell me why you can't?
13
A.
Because it's privileged communication.
14
Q.
As to why you were hired, that's privileged?
15
A.
Everything the client told me was -- is
16
privileged.
17
Q.
Okay. Now, if the client said what I just asked
18
in a
newspaper, wouldn't he have waived the
19
communication,
the privilege?
20
A.
You're asking me for a legal conclusion, I can't
21
give
you my legal opinion. I'm not here to give you my
22
legal
opinions. I give those to Gulf Stream.
23
Q.
Okay. Can you give me your laymen's opinion?
24
A.
No.
25
Q.
And why not?
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1 A. I don't think I have a laymen's opinion on the
2 law.
3 Q. Besides the law, you have no other laymen's
4 opinions?
5 A. I do, but not on the issue of waiver of
6 confidentiality. That's not a lay opinion, that's a
7 legal opinion.
8 Q. The RICO suit, were you part of the, I'm going to
9 say group of lawyers, who worked on and filed the appeal
10 of the 11th Circuit?
11 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
12 THE WITNESS: I -- I did not file the appeal
13 to the 11th Circuit.
14 And as to the work I did on the appeal,
15 that's lawyer/client privilege.
16 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
17 Q. If it's in your billings that are public records,
18 would that be attorney/client privilege?
19 A. Anything that's in my billing is a public record,
20 but I'm not going to discuss any work I did on -- the
21 nature of the work I did.
22 Q. But you did work on the appeal, would that be
23 correct?
24 A. If you take out the bills, it will show any
25 reference to the work -- time I spent on the appeal.
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1
Q.
Is that a yes?
2
A.
That's a yes. If you take a look at the bills,
3
you'll
see any work that I did on the appeal.
4
Q.
Okay. But you --
5
A.
Not the nature, but you'll see the time.
6
Q.
But you did work on the appeal?
7
A.
I did work on the appeal by virtue of reviewing
8
it.
9
Q.
By virtue --
10
A.
Of reviewing it. I didn't write any of the
11
appeal.
12
Q.
Okay. In your billings, the initials DPV, who iE
13
that?
14
A.
That's David Paul Vitale.
15
Q.
And who's ADV?
16
A.
Alexander DeVargus.
17
Q.
I see. Do you know when Mr. Vitale became
18
licensed
in Florida?
19
A.
I don't. Not by memory.
20
Q.
Generally stated --
21
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
22
THE WITNESS: Trying to think when my
23
daughter -- it was after my daughter, but I don't
24
remember the -- I can't pick the month.
25
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1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. I think it was the summer, sometime in the
4 summer.
5 Q. Of 1961?
6 A. 19 -- or 2000 -- maybe '14. I'm guessing.
7 MR. GOLDSTEIN: I don't want you to guess.
8 MR. HOCHMAN: I'm going to move to strike if
9 that's a guess.
10 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
11 Q. Do you know a fellow named Peter Isen?
12 A. Peter Isen? No.
13 Q. Okay. Well, he knows you. Are you sure you
14 don't know him?
15 A. I don't know him. I know who he is, but I don't
16 think I ever met him.
17 Q. Who is he?
18 A. I read that he was a resident -- if I'm not
19 mistaken, a resident of Long Port, New Jersey that you
20 sued after he said that you were the enemy of the people
21 of Long Port or something of that nature. And I read an
22 opinion concerning that as I recall.
23 Q. Of the 350 million people in America, where did
24 you find Peter Isen?
25 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Form.
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1
THE WITNESS: I'm not going to give my work
2
product, but in order to determine your past
3
conduct, you don't have to look up Peter Isen,
4
you just have to look up Martin O'Boyle.
5
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
6
Q.
And you would find -- if you look up
7
Martin
O'Boyle and you were looking to determine my past
8
conduct, you would find what by way of facts?
9
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Form.
10
THE WITNESS: You're asking me what's in the
11
public record about you?
12
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
13
Q.
No. You said all we have to do if you want to
14
find out
about Martin O'Boyle, you have to look him up.
15
A.
No. I said, you don't have to know who Mr. Isen
16
is to find
out about him. If you look at your past
17
record
of activities, litigation, fights with towns,
18
mayors,
banks, that you see names of people who you have
19
sued and
conduct that you have engaged in.
20
Q.
And the conduct that I have engaged in, do you
21
have any
firsthand knowledge of that?
22
A.
In other words, did I see it, was I there?
23
Q.
No. Do you have any firsthand knowledge?
24
A.
What do you mean by firsthand knowledge?
25
Q.
Well, I'll ask it a different way. The conduct
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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1 that you speak of, are you relying on others to -- with
2 regard to determining that conduct with regard to your
3 sitting here now saying your conduct, you made that
4 statement and it came from somewhere?
5 A. Yes. I'm relying on others to -- witnesses,
6 reporters, judges who write opinions, I'm relying on any
7 number of people when I investigate a party's past
8 conduct.
9 Q. Did you find anything in any of the information
10 that you looked at that said that there's a glass
11 mountain of evidence, that phrase?
12 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Form.
13 THE WITNESS: Glass mountain of evidence.
14 That I found?
15 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
16 Q. Yeah.
17 A. Yes. When I investigated statements that you
18 made to the Town of Gulf Stream, you made reference to a
19 writing of a judge who I subsequently -- subsequently
20 recuse himself in a case that is on appeal currently,
21 and you made reference to a quote from a judge in an
22 order, I did see -- I did see that you put that in the
23 record.
24 That was, I think, at the time you went in there
25 and made comments about me which you subsequently
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1 retracted on the record.
2
Q.
So, the glass mountain evidence, that was about
3
you?
4
A.
That was a statement by a judge that you
5
attributed to a judge when you were making derogatory
6
comments about me to the Town which you subsequently
7
retracted.
8
Q.
Have you ever made any derogatory comments about
9
me?
10
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
11
THE WITNESS: I am not going to discuss my
12
communications with my client or my staff or my
13
counsel.
14
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
15
Q.
Okay. Do you remember the question?
16
A.
Yes. Have I made any derogatory statements about
17
you?
18
And to -- I'm sure I've made a derogatory comment
19
about
you.
20
Q.
Singular? Haven't you made multiple derogatory
21
comments
about me?
22
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to form.
23
THE WITNESS: I would say that I have made
24
multiple derogatory comments about you.
25
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1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2
Q.
Did you know that I had a white truck?
3
A.
That you had a white truck?
4
Q.
Yes.
5
A.
No, I don't know if you have a white truck.
6
Q.
Okay. Did you know that the Town towed my truck
7
in the
first half of 2014?
8
A.
I'm not going to disclose anything that my client
9
told me, but I recall -- I thought reading somewhere
10
that it was your wife's truck. I think I read a police
11
report
or something that was a public record that said
12
it was
your wife's truck.
13
Q.
Ah -huh.
14
A.
That was towed from somewhere.
15
Q.
Whether my -- it was my wife's truck or my truck,
16
were you aware that the Town towed that in the first
17
half of 2014?
18
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
19
THE WITNESS: At some point I became aware
20
that it was towed. How I became aware, I don't
21
remember if it was reading a police report, but I
22
did have communications thereafter that I am not
23
going to discuss with my client about the issue.
24
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
25
Q.
Have you ever heard of a newspaper called the
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1 Gulf Stream Patriot?
2
A.
I've seen a copy of the Gulf Stream Patriot maybe
3
one or
more. I know I've seen at least one.
4
Q.
And how did you get your hands on that?
5
A.
How did I get my hands on it?
6
Q.
Yes.
7
A.
I don't remember.
8
Q.
We talked about, I think we did anyway, banners
9
flying
in the sky. Do you -- Now, I guess you've had
10
time to think about it, do you remember any of those
11
banners
which may have applied to you?
12
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Form.
13
THE WITNESS: There's a pending motion with
14
regard to banners that you admitted you were
15
flying and there were a few that had my name or
16
referenced me, I believe. I do remember them.
17
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
18
Q.
Okay. The pending motion, isn't flying a banner
19
a First
Amendment right?
20
A.
That's a legal opinion.
21
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Form.
22
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
23
Q.
Okay. And you don't want to answer that,
24
correct?
25
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
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1 THE WITNESS: I can't give you my legal
2 opinion. It's a subject motion in court that's
3 going to be adjudicated at the end of the case.
4 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
5 Q. What does the -- if I were to find the motion,
6 what would it say about the banners?
7 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Form.
8 THE WITNESS: I think it related to conduct
9 that you had engaged in after the motion was
10 filed to disqualify the O'Boyle Law Firm. And
11 whether or not it was designed to intimidate
12 counsel from prosecuting that motion and fully
13 representing the Town.
14 And as you may know in litigation, there are
15 all types of restrictions courts can put on First
16 Amendment rights.
17 So, I believe there's an issue before the
18 court as to whether or not you and/or others in
19 the law firm were attempting to bully and
20 intimidate counsel by making a personal attacks
21 and flying a banners and that's the subject of a
22 motion.
23 I think that's been your conduct in
24 Long Port as well as the State Attorney to use
25 banners to attempt to intimidate or bully people.
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1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2 Q. Well, I'm glad you said think because that
3 clearly tells me that you don't know.
4 A. It's just my -- my lay observation. That's not a
5 legal observation, that's my lay observation that you do
6 that from having read what I've read.
7 Q. And what you read you could affirm is one
8 hundred percent true, correct?
9 A. I never believe what I read is a hundred percent
10 true. I always -- I have some scepticism.
11 I don't think the New York times is one
12 hundred percent true. I don't think the Congressional
13 Record is a hundred percent true.
14 So, I read as much as I can. I speak to as many
15 witnesses as I can. I try to corroborate. I try to be
16 as thorough as I can in my work, Mr. O'Boyle.
17 Q. I don't doubt that at all. But as far as these
18 banners, you have no factual knowledge that I am
19 responsible for those banners, do you?
20 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Form.
21 THE WITNESS: That's not true.
22 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
23 Q. Okay. Well, tell me what it is? Tell me what
24 your factual knowledge is?
25 A. Your attorney in open court admitted that you
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1 were flying the banners.
2
Q.
What attorney would that be?
3
A.
Mr. Taylor is it? In front of Judge Barkdull --
4
I mean,
in front of Judge Peter Blanc. It's in the
5
record.
6
And I believe there was some other admission of
7
that.
I don't know why you would be denying it.
8
Q.
Did I deny it?
9
A.
Well, you said you don't have any proof as if you
10
were challenging
that it happened.
11
Q.
Well, please don't tell me what I'm doing.
12
A.
I'm not telling you what you're doing.
13
Q.
You sure are.
14
A.
I don't want to argue with me, Mr. O'Boyle.
15
Q.
Sweetapple Silver Houses, LLC, have you ever
16
heard
of that?
17
A.
I heard -- yes, I have.
18
Q.
And are you upset by that -- by the name of that
19
company?
20
A.
Not upset. No, I'm not upset.
21
Q.
Okay. What are you?
22
A.
As a lay person, I see it as, yet, another
23
attempt
that's consistent with dozens of incidents I've
24
seen where
you've attempted to bully or intimidate
25
people
into doing what you wanted and that's what I see
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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1
it as.
It's pretty typical from what I've been doing
2
and predictable.
3
Q.
And that's according to you, right?
4
A.
I'm the one testifying.
5
Q.
I understand that. But that's according to you?
6
A.
I just said those things.
7
Q.
But that's according to you, correct?
8
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
9
THE WITNESS: If I said it, it would be
10
according to me, I didn't quote anybody.
11
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
12
Q.
Okay. All right. If I would have opened some
13
sober
houses and called them Sweetapple, LLC -- I'm
14
sorry,
Sweetapple Silver Houses, LLC, would that have
15
troubled
you?
16
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
17
THE WITNESS: You're asking me to speculate.
18
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
19
Q.
Just give me your laymen's opinion?
20
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
21
THE WITNESS: I would be speculating.
22
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
23
Q.
Pardon?
24
A.
I would be speculating.
25
Q.
How many sober houses have you built?
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
1 A. I haven't built any sober houses.
2 Q. How many sober houses have you operated?
3 A. I haven't operated any sober houses.
4 Q. Do you know David Saffron?
5 A. David Saffron? I do not know David Saffron. I
6 know the name and I have spoken to him.
7 Q. So, then you do know him?
8 A. No.
9 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
10 THE WITNESS: I don't know him.
11 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
12 Q. Explain to me what's the difference between
13 speaking to someone and knowing someone in your mind, I
14 think that will save us some time?
15 A. I had a woman from China call me to ask me if I
16 was going to pay my American Express card. And I said,
17 I already have. I have no idea -- she told me her name,
18 but I have no idea what she looks like, I know -- I have
19 no idea about her family.
20 David Saffron I spoke to on the telephone on more
21 than one occasion.
22 Q. Did you send Mr. Saffron any documentation,
23 information, anything?
24 A. I believe I did.
25 Q. And what is it that you sent him?
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1
A.
I would have to go back and look.
2
Q.
Did Mr. Saffron send you anything by way of
3
documentation?
4
A.
Yes, he did.
5
Q.
He did. What did he send you?
6
A.
I believe that's confidential and related to my
7
litigation.
I'd have to go back and look, but that's my
8
recollection.
9
Q.
And how would it be confidential?
10
A.
It would be my work product and lawyer/client
11
work
with regard to my matters.
12
Q.
I see. But he did send you information?
13
A.
Yes, he did.
14
Q.
How many pieces of information did he send you?
15
A.
I'd have to go back and look.
16
Q.
Generally?
17
A.
It wasn't very many.
18
Q.
Very many, is there --
19
A.
Less than -- I mean, two, three, four. I mean,
20
I'd have to go look.
21
Q.
Small amount?
22
A.
Small amount. It was a brief period exchange, I
23
believe.
24
Q.
How did you find Mr. Saffron in this $350
25
million -- million people country?
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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1
A.
I don't remember.
2
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Form.
3
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
4
Q.
How did Mr. Saffron find you?
5
A.
I don't know if he found me or if I found him.
6
Q.
I see. And if you did find him, you have no idea
7
how that
happened?
6
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
9
THE WITNESS: I have no idea as I sit here.
10
I could look through my files and see if it was
11
through a search that was done or I mean, a case
12
that his name appeared in.
13
As I sit here now, I don't know how learned
14
of him or he learned of me.
15
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
16
Q.
Okay. Tom O'Donnie, do you know him?
17
A.
I don't recognize that name.
16
Q.
Patsy Randolph?
19
A.
I recognize the name from depositions. I may
20
have met her. I have no idea sitting here today what
21
she looks like. I believe she's a resident of Gulf
22
Stream.
23
Q.
Have you spoken to her?
24
A.
It's possible because if she is one of the people
25
that's
been at council meetings, I've had people come up
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1
to me. I don't remember if it was her or not, but I
2
recognize that name.
3
Q. Is everything that you said at
the council
4
meeting, to the public, true?
5
A. When? Are you talking about at
council meetings?
6
Q. Yes.
7
A. I hope so.
8
Q. That's a yes or no?
9
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to
the form.
10
THE WITNESS: To the best
of my knowledge.
11
BY MR. O'BOYLE:
12
Q. To the best of your knowledge,
everything you
13
said is true, correct?
14
A. When I report to the counsel, when
I speak to
15
counsel members.
16
Q. When you speak in the -- Well,
I'm going to call
17
the commission chambers to the people,
to the commission
18
members, to the town manager, to the town
clerk, to the
19
town attorney?
20
A. I assuming that the information
I have is
21
accurate. I attempt to only tell the
truth.
22
Q. Okay. Earlier on you said that
you made some or
23
several derogatory comments about me.
May I ask what
24
they were?
25
A. I can't remember the exact nature
of them. Some
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1 were with my wife, for instance, in private. Those are
2 privileged. I think I made one last night. So, I
3 wouldn't share them with you.
4 Q. Besides your wife, the one you made last night --
5 excuse me, the one you made last night, I assume, was
6 not to your wife or was it?
7 A. To my wife.
8 Q. Okay. I see.
9 A. About what I thought you were doing in this
10 proceeding, for instance.
11 Q. I see, okay. The derogatory statements that you
12 made, you don't remember a one of them?
13 A. Actually, I do remember. I had a personal
14 conversation with my tennis partner last night. I am
15 not going to share it with you, but he's also a lawyer
16 and one of my lawyers.
17 But I did speak to him as to what I thought you
18 were about with regard to your conduct in this case
19 and --
20 Q. And is that -- do you believe that to be
21 privileged?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Okay. And what is your basis for that belief?
24 A. Because he happens to be a lawyer and he
25 represents me.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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15]
1
Q.
In this matter?
2
A.
He represents me in general. He's my general
3
counsel.
4
Q.
Okay.
5
A.
Has been for twenty something years.
6
Q.
But he doesn't represent you in this matter, is
7
that
correct?
8
A.
He's not counsel of record in this matter, but I
9
have
discussed with him this matter.
10
Q.
Okay. Do you have any documents that are
11
unsealed
by a court?
12
A.
Do I have any?
13
Q.
Yes.
14
A.
In my possession?
15
Q.
Yes.
16
A.
Not that I am aware of.
17
Q.
Okay.
18
A.
I mean, other than the fact I -- that we -- are
19
you talking
about your case? Not yesterday we filed a
20
thousand
pages in a case, I believe, unsealed in a -- in
21
the 15th
Judicial Circuit. It was a different case.
22
Those
we filed, I have those.
23
Q.
As applies to myself and -- and/or to Mr. O'Hare?
24
A.
Not that I am aware. I believe with regard to
25
Mr. O'Hare,
there was a motion to file something
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1 unsealed, but I don't think it's ever been filed and I
2 don't think I have a copy of whatever it was that was
3 being filed.
4 Q. Okay. Let's then limit it to just me. Do you
5 have any documents that are unsealed?
6 A. That's been filed unsealed? No.
7 Q. I don't know what filed unsealed means, but let
8 me try to use the best words that I can. Do you have
9 any documents that a court says you're not supposed to
10 have?
11 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
12 THE WITNESS: Not that I'm aware of.
13 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
14 Q. Did Peter Isen send you any documents?
15 A. I already answered that. Yes, he did.
16 Q. You didn't answer that, but that's fine.
17 And may I ask what he sent you?
18 A. It's confidential and privileged and work
19 product.
20 Q. Back to the derogatory statements that you said
21 about me; you said you told your wife and that's
22 privileged.
23 And you told your tennis buddy and you've
24 represented here that he is your counsel, has been
25 counsel for 25 years. And whatever you told him is
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1 privileged, am I right so far?
2 A. And I spoke with, you know, staff, lawyers in the
3 office, my client.
4 Q. External to your client and their employees and
5 external to your 25 -year tennis partner who's your
6 lawyer, but not in this case, I mean, he hasn't entered
7 an appearance in this case, who else did you make
8 derogatory comments about me to?
9 A. I can't remember anybody offhand.
10 Q. Can't remember a sole?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Okay. Now, you said you made -- and I may not
13 have the right word, multiple -- you said you made
14 derogatory comments multiple times. And you may have
15 even said something with a higher element then that,
16 meaning a lot of times or whatever, but somewhere in
17 that arena.
1B Why didn't you just say two?
19 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
20 Mischaracterizes testimony.
21 THE WITNESS: For instance, my tennis
22 partner who I play tennis with two or three times
23 a week -- I've been involved with you for two
24 years.
25 So, I confidentially will say things to him
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1 about what I think you're doing that are
2 derogatory, I think, can be taken as derogatory
3 right before I hit the tennis balls.
4 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
5 Q. What words or phrases would you characterize as
6 derogatory?
7 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
6 THE WITNESS: I'm not going to disclose the
9 terms that I've used.
10 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
11 Q. What words or phrases would you describe as
12 derogatory, except for those that you made to the Town
13 of Gulf Stream and any of its employees, except for
14 those that you made to your wife and except those who
15 you made to your tennis partner for 25 years who's been
16 your lawyer and still is your lawyer, and that's why
17 you're claiming a privilege?
18 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
19 THE WITNESS: You want to know what I
20 consider to be a derogatory comment?
21 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
22 Q. What you consider to be derogatory comments?
23 A. About another person?
24 Q. Well, you wouldn't -- unless it's about you,
25 which is not what --
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1 A. About any person, what would I consider to be
2 derogatory?
3 Q. Just in general, a derogatory comment?
4 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Form.
5 THE WITNESS: He's an ass. He's a fool.
6 He's a jackass. I mean, there are different
7 derogatory terms people use all the time about
8 other people.
9 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
10 Q. He's fucked up, is that a derogatory comment?
11 A. I've -- I would think so.
12 Q. Okay. He's a douche bag, is that a derogatory
13 comment?
14 A. I would think so.
15 Q. His head is in his ass, is that a derogatory
16 comment?
17 A. Yes. Although, the last three you quoted I hear
18 kids saying all the time. So, maybe now it isn't a
19 derogatory comment. Our society seems to be changing.
20 Now, Mr. Trump says things like that, so I guess
21 our world is really changing.
22 Q. Mr. Vitale, would he have any billings with your
23 firm or would you bill him out before 3/20/2015?
24 A. When he was a law clerk.
25 Q. And by the --
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1
A.
He worked for me as a law clerk for some time
2
before
he became a lawyer.
3
Q.
And were you billing him out as a law clerk?
4
A.
Yes. As a law clerk, yes.
5
Q.
And what was the rate that you were billing him
6
out at?
7
A.
I don't remember.
8
Q.
What does, generally, a law clerk --
9
A.
I'd have to look and see. Mr. Vitale graduated
10
number
two in his class from BC Law. He's a three-year
11
CPA.
He's now working at a large New York firm making
12
twice
-- You know, a lot more than I paid him and I was
13
paying
him top dollar.
14
So, I mean, I don't know -- I don't remember what
15
his rate
was. But, you know, he's he a top tier lawyer.
16
Q.
At this point, though, he was not a lawyer?
17
A.
At this point he was a CPA and was awaiting his
18
Bar --
getting sworn into Bar. He was -- he graduated
19
from law
school. He was not yet sworn in.
20
Q.
Did you ever slander me, Mr. Sweetapple?
21
A.
That's a legal conclusion, but don't believe I
22
did, no.
23
Q.
And what makes you not believe that you did?
24
A.
Because I don't believe I did. I am aware of
25
what slander
is and I don't believe I ever slandered
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1 you.
2 Q. Isn't that a legal conclusion of what slander is?
3 A. I told you, I don't believe I have. I think
4 it's -- it's a legal conclusion.
5 Q. Okay. What would you expect a paralegal to bill
6 at?
7 In other words, if you looked at another lawyer's
8 bills, which I'm sure you do --
9 A. I would say 150, 250. For a paralegal, you're
10 not talking about a graduate law clerk. I mean,
11 Mr. Vitale worked with the Federal Judge in Boston who
12 did the Boston Bomber Trial, for instance.
13 I mean, you're talking about a first year law
14 clerk, second year law clerk, paralegal, that's a
15 different concept then someone who's graduated from law
16 school who's worked in Federal Court, who's, you know,
17 highly talented and -- depends on who the person is.
18 You can be a paralegal without even going to --
19 you can call yourself a paralegal without even having
20 gone to paralegal school.
21 Q. Now, I know what these two fellas, Mr. Hochman,
22 Mr. Goldstein bill at. And I'm looking and I believe,
23 and unless I'm mistaken, that Mr. Vitale billed at more
24 than them. How could that be?
25 A. Billings are a function of the type of work you
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
1 do. For instance, I bill at 350 an hour for Gulf
2 Stream, I believe. My billing rate is 650 an hour. It
3 depends on who the lawyer is, what the firm is.
4 Insurance defense lawyers bill at very, very low
5 rates in the industry. So, you'll see insurance defense
6 lawyers billing at 150, 125. I billed at 125 in 1980.
7 So, it's typical in the industry that insurance
8 defense lawyers, because they do volumes of work, it's
9
negotiated with
carriers,
small
firms,
big commercial
10
firms, private
firms that
do the
type
of work that we do
11 bill more at the rates we do. It's the function of the
12 type of firm, the type of lawyers that are involved.
13 Q. But if a top lawyer can bill at 650 --
14 A. That's not the top rate. I mean, Mr. Grossman
15 bills much higher than I do.
16 Q. No, a top lawyer, a seasoned lawyer can bill at
17 650, why would a good lawyer bill 125, 150? Is it
18 because they can't get work otherwise?
19 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
20
THE
WITNESS: No. You're asking my
opinion
21
from the
-- my
experience with the law.
It's not
22
really a
legal
opinion, it's an informed
business
23 opinion.
24 But I have seen the big insurance firms bill
25 at very low rates with very high volume, very
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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1 large use of paralegals, young lawyers.
2 You can get a job at the State Attorney's
3 Office and make $45,000 a year and you're really
4 billing out at $50 an hour when you add it up.
5
Really depends on the setting you're in.
6 BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
11
7 Q.
Gotcha. Before
Mr. Vitale was a lawyer, he was
8 billing
at 200 an hour,
does that sound right?
9 A.
I would have to
look.
10
Q.
Okay. After Mr. Vitale was
a lawyer, he was
11
billing
at 200 an hour, does that
sound right?
12
A.
It could be. Could be.
him at
13 Q. Who determines what the billing rate is?
14 A. His billing rate, after he became a lawyer, was
15 300 or 275 or 325. But because Joann O'Connor was
16
billing
at
a discounted
rate
as a
courtesy to the
17
client,
I
did not bill
him at
the
firm's rate.
18
So, you
mentioned yesterday
that I made
$600,000
19
representing Gulf
Stream, which I
never added
up, and
20
you thought it
was outrageous. I
looked at it
as how
21 much I've lost in revenue because both Mr. Vitale and
22
myself were not billing at our
full rates and I have
23
more than
enough work to handle
at 650 an hour, but
24
because I
committed to take the
case at 350 because it
25 was a government, I've continue to bill at that way.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
1 However,
it's
consumed
much more time
than I ever
2 expected
and
gone much
longer than I
ever expected.
3 So, I probably have, in terms of my business, if
4 I ever did look at my income and statements, which I
5 don't focus on, I would probably see that I've lost
6 money representing the Town of Gulf Stream frankly.
7 Q. When you say it took much longer than you
8 expected, could I read into that that you thought you
9 were going to crush myself and Mr. O'Hare long before
10 this?
11 A. No.
12 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
13 THE WITNESS: You can read into that that I
14 never knew who Mr. Chandler was and I never
15 expected anything like this would develop in the
16 case when I got into it.
17 Absolutely could not have predicted a
18 witness like Joel Chandler contacting me and
19 hearing what I have heard; that was totally
20 beyond anything I ever expected when I got
21 involved in this litigation.
22 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
23 Q. If Mr. Chandler said that the Town's conduct was
24 criminal, would you agree with him?
25 A. If -- you're asking me a hypothetical.
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1
Q.
No --
2
A.
You're also asking me for a legal opinion and I
3
am not
going to give you my legal opinion.
4
Q.
Well, then give me a non -legal opinion?
5
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Form.
6
THE WITNESS: I don't think -- I don't think
7
I offer non -legal opinions on those subjects.
8
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
9
Q.
How many people have you said that -- have you
10
told that
I was a criminal?
11
A.
I have not said Martin O'Boyle is a criminal.
12
Q.
Have you said Marty O'Boyle is a criminal?
13
A.
No, I haven't.
14
Q.
Have you made Martin -- or I'm sorry,
15
Mr. O'Boyle
is a criminal?
16
A.
No, I haven't.
17
Q.
I see. And have you ever said that I was an
18
extortionist?
19
A.
I don't believe so. I've never said that.
20
Q.
Well, certainly in the papers, the RICO suit, you
21
said that?
22
A.
I didn't file the RICO suit.
23
Q.
I didn't say you did.
24
A.
So, why are you saying that I said what's in the
25
papers
that were filed by the Richman Greer Firm?
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1
Q.
Because you participated in the preparation --
2
A.
You're saying --
3
Q.
And you said that you reviewed them or you
4
reviewed it?
5
A.
I said I reviewed the appeal, but I did work on
6
the RICO case.
7
Q.
Okay.
8
A.
To say that I wrote Martin O'Boyle is an
9
extortionist, I don't believe I've ever even written
10
that in a legal paper.
11
Q.
And why haven't you?
12
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Form.
13
THE WITNESS: Why haven't I written it in a
14
legal paper?
15
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
16
Q.
Yes.
17
A.
Because, I don't know.
18
Q.
Is it because you don't believe it?
19
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Form.
20
THE WITNESS: I am not going to discuss my
21
beliefs and my legal opinions with you.
22
BY MR.
O'B0YLE:
23
Q.
Have you ever used, in the same sentence, my name
24
with criminal?
25
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
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1
THE WITNESS: I believe that I have in
2
discussions with Mr. Hannah stated to him that
3
Mr. Chandler contacted me saying that he was
4
alleging that you and others were engaged in
5
criminal and fraudulent behavior.
6
I have said to him, such as, if what
7
Mr. Chandler is saying is true, he appears to be
8
alleging a scheme to defraud under Florida
9
Chapter 817 which is a criminal statute.
10
I have discussed in terms of discussing this
11
alleged scheme that Mr. Chandler told me about
12
with Mr. Hannah what the legal ramifications of
13
the allegations would be, we've debated that.
14
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
15
Q.
Did Mr. Hannah talk about what occurred at the
16
September 3rd meeting?
17
A.
Where?
18
Q.
Well, the same one we've been talking about, the
19
September 3rd meeting, the mediation?
20
A.
But where? Did he talk after it or before it?
21
Q.
Well, he would have had to talk -- Well, after
22
it?
23
A.
Did he talk to me after it?
24
Q.
No, I didn't say that. Did he talk -- do you
25
have any
knowledge that Mr. Hannah, after the
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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164
1 September 3rd meeting, disclosed what occurred during
2 the September 3rd meeting?
3
A.
To his client?
4
Q.
Please don't change the question.
5
A.
Disclosed -- I don't have any -- I don't have any
6
personal
knowledge.
7
Q.
Did you take his deposition?
8
A.
I took his deposition.
9
Q.
And in his deposition didn't he say that?
10
A.
I don't remember. I don't remember.
11
Q.
If he did say it, it's now fair game, you agree
12
with that,
do you not?
13
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
14
THE WITNESS: What's fair game?
15
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
16
Q.
What happened in that meeting?
17
A.
That's a legal conclusion.
18
Q.
Okay. It would no longer be privileged, would
19
it?
20
A.
That's a legal conclusion.
21
Q.
So, it might still be privileged, even though
22
there's
a transcript out there, it's on the internet, it
23
still
may be privileged?
24
A.
Yeah. In terms of privilege, yes, yes, it's --
25
Q.
Okay.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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1 A. Things can be discussed in deposition and still
2 not admissible. It could be a violation of an
3 agreement. You're asking me legal conclusions, but
4 that's my -- that's what you're getting at.
5 Q. Well, once it's on the internet, isn't it hard to
6 un -ring the bell?
7 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
8 THE WITNESS: I don't know what you mean.
9 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
10 Q. Okay. Once something is -- say his video
11 deposition was put on the internet. What he said at
12 that deposition would be disclosed to the world, am I
13 correct?
14 A. I would presume anyone could see it, yeah.
15 Q. Okay. So, whatever privilege is or whatever did
16 attach or secrecy, or whatever the mediation word meant,
17 it's gone, isn't it? If I'm correct, that it's on the
18 internet?
19 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
20 THE WITNESS: That's a legal conclusion.
21 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
22 Q. That is a legal question?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Okay, that's fine. You were hired by Gulf Stream
25 in March or April of 2014, does that sound right?
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
1
A.
It does.
2
Q.
Okay. And what was the scope of your duties as
3
they announced
it solely in public?
4
A.
I wouldn't know. I wasn't in public when they
5
announced it.
6
Q.
How did you find out what your duties were?
7
A.
My duties have been discussed with my client.
8
Q.
Have your duties at all changed?
9
A.
I wouldn't feel comfortable discussing my
10
communications with my client in that regard.
11
Q.
I am not asking you to. I just asked if you're
12
duties
have changed?
13
A.
That would be lawyer/client privilege.
14
Q.
Well, your duties could change unilaterally?
15
A.
Well, my --
16
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Form.
17
THE WITNESS: My duties are a function of my
18
discussions with my client. I am not going to
19
reveal my discussions with my client.
20
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
21
Q.
Now, we're dealing with a government and I'm
22
looking for the scope of your duties.
23
And the reason I am is, your duties as they were
24
initially discussed by the commission and where they are
25
now is
far field, you're in a different planet. And I
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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167
1 just want to know how they changed? When did they
2 change? If it's a -- if it's privileged, I understand.
3 A. Well, first of all --
4 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Form.
5 THE WITNESS: -- I don't agree with your
6 characterization.
7 Second of all, my communications with the
8 client are privileged.
9 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
10 Q. Why don't you agree with my characterization?
11 A. Because you said something about a different
12 planet. I don't think we're on a different planet at
13 all. I think we're dealing with my scope of
14 representation as it applied to the facts that developed
15 during litigation.
16 During litigation, facts come out and you apply
17 your lawyering and the scope of your representation to
18 those facts.
19 Q. If you're fees are 650 an hour and if Mr. Vitale
20 was normally billing over 300, I think you said?
21 A. Somewhere in that range, I don't remember.
22 Q. Yeah. You said that you were losing money?
23 A. Yes, because I -- you're asking me a question.
24 Yes, because what I'm doing every month is working much
25 more on Gulf Stream matters then I expected and not
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
M
1 billing clients that routinely pay me a lot more money.
2 But I've made a commitment to take the case and
3 I'm going to see the cases through. I didn't expect to
4 have you -- have someone sue me personally twice, the
5 law firm twice.
6 Although, based on what I know about your past
7 conduct, I shouldn't be surprised.
8 Q. And I am not sure what that means whether you're
9 talking about a glass mountain, whether you're talking
10 about filing a bullshit claim against my son for the
11 unlicensed practice of law, I don't know.
12 MR. GOLDSTEIN: There's no question pending.
13 Is there a question? Otherwise, I'm moving to
14 strike your comments.
15 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
16 Q. In connection with this litigation, are you
17 claiming immunity?
18 A. That calls for a legal conclusion and work
19 product, but I'd have to look at the pleadings that were
20 filed by my counsel to give you the best answer on that
21 regard.
22 Q. If you'd like to take sixty seconds and ask your
23 counsel --
24 A. If you show it to me -- I'm not going to speak to
25 my counsel right now. If you show me the pleadings, I
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1 can read it.
2
Q.
Okay. We'll ask a different question.
3
Are you not claiming immunity?
4
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to form.
5
THE WITNESS: Same answer.
6
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
7
Q.
Okay. So, you don't know?
8
A.
Well, I saw the pleading some time ago. There
9
were a
number of defenses plead. I don't remember -- I
10
remember absolute immunity, I think, and qualified
11
immunity as I recall.
12
Q.
I'm just referring to, are you claiming immunity?
13
A.
Well, I think the pleading refers to -- I think
14
it uses the term absolute immunity and qualified
15
immunity if I'm not mistaken, but I'd need to see it.
16
Q.
But qualified, the next word is immunity?
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
Absolute, the next word is immunity?
19
A.
Right.
20
Q.
My question is, are you claiming immunity?
21
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
22
THE WITNESS: I think the pleading has those
23
two affirmative defenses in it if I'm not
24
mistaken.
25
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1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2 Q. Okay. So, you're claiming immunity?
3 A. My lawyer has asserted those defenses in a
4 pleading on my behalf is my best recollection.
5 Q. Gotcha.
6 A. I'm going to want to take a break in five or
7 ten minutes, so just --
8 Q. Did you ever say to Ms. O'Connor about me and my
9 son that you're going to get me by going after my son?
10 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to form.
11 THE WITNESS: Well, I am not going to
12 disclose any communication with Ms. O'Connor. I
13 mean, anything I discuss with Ms. O'Connor is
14 confidential.
15 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
16 Q. Unless it was heard by a third party, isn't that
17 correct?
18 A. That's a legal conclusion. It depends on how it
19 was heard, who heard it. That's a legal conclusion.
20 Q. Okay, I see. So, if someone else heard it, it
21 may not be privileged and you're not going to answer?
22 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
23 THE WITNESS: I'm not going to speculate.
24 But as to any communications I've had with
25 Ms. O'Connor, even if they're entirely invented
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1 in your question, I'm not going to answer.
2 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
3 Q. Well, they're not invented and there's no glass
4 mountain of evidence.
5 A. Do you have a question?
6 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Move to strike.
7 MR. O'BOYLE: You said made a statement and
8 I was just responding.
9 MR. GOLDSTEIN: He was responding to your
10 statement. Move on, please.
11 THE COURT REPORTER: Can we take a break?
12 MR. O'BOYLE: Sure.
13 (Thereupon, a recess was taken; after which
14 the following proceedings were had:)
15 MR. O'BOYLE: We're back on the record, are
16 we?
17 THE COURT REPORTER: Yes.
18 MR. O'BOYLE: Mr. Hochman, I am told that
19 Ms. Randolph is supposed to be here for
20 deposition at 4:30 this afternoon and that it was
21 arranged through you, is that correct?
22 And do you, to your knowledge, will she be
23 here?
24 MR. HOCHMAN: I don't know.
25 MR. O'BOYLE: You don't know if it's
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1
correct?
2
MR.
HOCHMAN:
I don't know if it's correct
3
and I don't
know if
she'll be here.
4
MR.
O'BOYLE:
Okay. You don't know whether
5
it was made
through
you?
6
MR.
HOCHMAN:
I know it wasn't made through
7
me.
8
MR.
O'BOYLE:
It was not?
9
MR.
HOCHMAN:
That's correct, it was not
10
made through
me.
11
MR.
O'BOYLE:
If you'd give me one moment.
12
I was --
Mr. Goldstein,
was it made through you?
13
MR.
GOLDSTEIN:
Most certainly not.
14
MR.
O'BOYLE:
Okay, okay.
15
MR.
GOLDSTEIN:
I have never had a single
16
discussion
with Ms.
Randolph in my life.
17
MR.
O'BOYLE:
I will alert the media.
18
MR.
HOCHMAN:
Do you have service on her? I
19
tried to
ask this question at the very beginning
20
of this
deposition.
21
MR.
O'BOYLE:
You certainly did.
22
MR.
HOCHMAN:
Do you have a return of
23
service
indicating
that Ms. Randolph was served
24
with process?
25
MR.
O'BOYLE:
My understanding is, and we'll
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1
get it resolved this very second.
2
MR. HOCHMAN: Okay --
3
MR. O'BOYLE: -- is that one of you two, it
4
was made through one of you two.
5
MR. HOCHMAN: That is not possible.
6
MR. GOLDSTEIN: I would agree.
7
MR. O'BOYLE: Okay.
8
MR. HOCHMAN: We have no authority to accept
9
a subpoena for a resident of the Town of Gulf
10
Stream.
11
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Nor am I.
12
MR. O'BOYLE: Is the other fellow there?
13
(Thereupon, Mr. O'Boyle is on the
14
telephone.)
15
MR. HOCHMAN: Do you want to put it on
16
speaker so we can all hear?
17
MR. O'BOYLE: No, privileged, work product.
18
MR. HOCHMAN: Since you got your law
19
license, Mr. O'Boyle?
20
MR. O'BOYLE: Are you not allowed to have
21
privilege unless you have a law license?
22
MR. HOCHMAN: Well, not the attorney/client
23
privilege. Do you have something else maybe?
24
MR. O'BOYLE: Maybe I'm talking to my
25
attorney.
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1
MR. HOCHMAN: I know that's not your
2
attorney.
3
MR. O'BOYLE: Really?
4
MR. HOCHMAN: Yes.
5
MR. O'BOYLE: William --
6
THE WITNESS: That is his attorney.
7
MR. O'BOYLE: William, is he there.
8
THE COURT REPORTER: I'm going to go off the
9
record.
10
(Thereupon; an off the record discussion was
11
held; after which the following proceedings were
12
had:)
13
MR. O'BOYLE: Does anybody have a hard copy
14
of the second amended compliant?
15
MR. HOCHMAN: You have it.
16
MR. O'BOYLE: A clean copy, does anyone have
17
it?
18
MR. GOLDSTEIN: I don't believe I do.
19
THE WITNESS: I don't.
20
MR. O'BOYLE: No. Can you mark this.
21
(Thereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit 1 was marked
22
for Identification.)
23
MR. HOCHMAN: Has this been marked for
24
today's deposition?
25
THE COURT REPORTER: Yes.
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175
MR. O'BOYLE: Don't need it. It's for the
witness.
MR. HOCHMAN: It's for the witness?
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Let me take a look at it.
MR. O'BOYLE: Are we ready, madam?
THE COURT REPORTER: We're ready.
(Thereupon, the conclusion of the deposition
was resumed in Volume II.)
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA
Case No. 9:14-CV-81250-KAM
MARTIN E. O'BOYLE,
Plaintiff,
Vs.
ROBERT A. SWEETAPPLE and
MAYOR SCOTT MORGAN,
Defendants.
DEPOSITION OF ROBERT SWEETAPPLE
Taken on behalf of the Plaintiff
VOLUME II
PAGES 176 - 283
DATE TAKEN: Friday, May 27, 2016
TIME: 9:00 a.m. - 7:00 p.m.
PLACE: THE OFFICE OF DAUGHTERS REPORTING
1515 North Federal Highway
Suite 300
Boca Raton, Florida 33432
Examination of the witness taken before:
LISA GREENWELL, Merit Reporter
DAUGHTERS REPORTING, INC.
934 North University Drive
Suite 224
Coral Springs, Florida 33071
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2
3
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Elra
13
14
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16
17
18
19
20
21
22
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24
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APPEARANCE FOR THE PLAINTIFF
MARTIN E. O'BOYLE, pro se
1280 West Newport Center Drive
Deerfield Beach, Florida 33442
APPEARANCE FOR THE DEFENDANT
ROBERT A. SWEETAPPLE
JOSHUA A. GOLDSTEIN, Esquire
THE LAW OFFICES OF COLE, SCOTT & KISSANE, P.A.
1645 Palm Beach Lakes Boulevard
Second Floor
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401
APPEARANCE FOR THE DEFENDANT
Town of Gulf Stream
JEFFREY L. HOCHMAN, Esquire
THE LAW OFFICES OF JOHNSON, ANSELMO, MURDOCH,
BURKE PIPER & HOCHMAN, P.A.
2455 East Sunrise Boulevard
Suite 1000
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33304
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178
1 I -N -D -E -X
2
3
DEPOSITION OF ROBERT A. SWEETAPPLE Page No.
4
5 Continuing
6 Direct Examination by Mr. O'Boyle 179
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 E -X -H -I -B -I -T -S
14 Plaintiff Page
15 No. 2 bill 260
16
17
18
19
CERTIFIED QUESTIONS
20
Page Line
21
200 25
22
209 9
23
24
25
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1 (Thereupon, the following proceedings were had:)
2 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
3 Q. Mr. Sweetapple, what the court reporter give you
4 a moment ago is the second amended complaint in the
5 matter of Martin O'Boyle vs. Robert Sweetapple and Town
6 of Gulf Stream.
7 May I ask how that's marked, please?
8 THE COURT REPORTER: Plaintiff's 1.
9 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
10 Q. Mr. Sweetapple, for the sake of privity, I hope,
11 I'd like for you to go through, there are 70 paragraphs
12 in here, and tell me which ones are true, which ones are
13 false, which ones are partially true, which ones are
14 partially false and which ones you don't know?
15 A. Okay.
16 MR. GOLDSTEIN: I'm going to object to the
17 form of this question. It's an improper question
18 to ask.
19 THE WITNESS: Let me read this.
20 MR. O'BOYLE: Sure. Take your time.
21 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Moreover, I set forth that
22 any position with respect to the allegations that
23 the Plaintiff would have been set forth in our
24 answer. I suspect you have a copy of our answer?
25 THE WITNESS: There's notes on this,
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1
Mr. O'Boyle. Do you want -- it says discuss
2
settlement. Do you
want me to read that or do
3
you want to give me
a copy that has no notes on
4
it?
5
BY MR. O'BOYLE:
6
Q. How about if we do
this, just --
7
MR. HOCHMAN:
Do you waive the privilege?
8
MR. O'BOYLE:
Have I waived the privilege?
9
I'm a laymen.
10
MR. HOCHMAN:
Exactly my point, Mr. O'Boyle.
11
Thank you. Finally
you got caught up in it. I
12
love it.
13
MR. O'BOYLE:
I got caught up in it.
14
MR. HOCHMAN:
Yes, you agree that you're not
15
a lawyer.
16
MR. O'BOYLE:
I don't think I ever
17
represented that I
--
18
MR. HOCHMAN:
You asserted privilege before.
19
MR. O'BOYLE:
I'm allowed to assert a
20
privilege, lawyer or no lawyer.
21
MR. HOCHMAN:
Okay.
22
THE WITNESS:
Do you want to substitute this
23
for a clean copy?
24
MR. O'BOYLE:
I do. And if I could -- give
25
me a moment.
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1
THE WITNESS:
I'll see if I can get this
2
decal off of here.
3
MR. HOCHMAN:
May I see the document,
4
please, Mr. Sweetapple.
5
THE WITNESS:
Sure.
6
MR. HOCHMAN:
Before you rip the decal off,
7
it is marked as an
exhibit. Just want to see
8
what we're doing here.
9
MR. O'BOYLE:
Do you have the other Second
10
Amendment.
11
MS. BAEZ: You gave it to John.
12
MR. HOCHMAN:
Actually, it's only this page,
13
Page 3. It's just
discussed settlement which he
14
did. I don't believe there's an issue. It's all
15
up to you now.
16
MR. O'BOYLE:
This is Mr. Sweetapple?
17
MR. HOCHMAN:
Yeah, this is the one that's
18
marked.
19
MR. O'BOYLE:
Yeah.
20
MR. HOCHMAN:
Okay. We'll use that one.
21
THE WITNESS:
Use the one with the
22
handwriting on it?
23
MR. HOCHMAN:
Yes.
24
THE WITNESS:
Okay.
25
MR. HOCHMAN:
Mr. O'Boyle, do you want me to
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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1
see if I can get
in contact with the witness, see
2
if I can have her
show up even without a subpoena
3
or do you want to
finish up with this deposition?
4
MR. O'BOYLE:
Well, we're going to be for
5
beyond 4:30 at this
point.
6
MR. HOCHMAN:
So, tell me what you'd like me
7
to do?
8
MR. O'BOYLE:
If she'll come, that would be
9
great. If you'll
call her, sure.
10
MR. HOCHMAN:
I will try to call her. My
11
question is, it seems
odd, though, I am not going
12
to tell her to come
if Mr. Sweetapple's
13
deposition is not
going to be concluded.
14
MR. O'BOYLE:
Well, I think once we find
15
that out, we're going
to have to make that
16
decision.
17
MR. HOCHMAN:
Well, I don't want to bother
18
her with a phone
call to say I'll let you know.
19
I want to -- if you're
saying --
20
MR. O'BOYLE:
Let's just get done because
21
we're --
22
MR. HOCHMAN:
Well -- but here's the point,
23
you wanted to stay
on schedule at 4:30 was my
24
understanding.
25
MR. O'BOYLE:
Yeah, but let's not worry
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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ME
1
about it right now.
2
MR. HOCHMAN: But I'm saying, if you want
3
her to be here at 4:30 I have to call her now,
4
it's 4:00 o'clock.
5
MR. O'BOYLE: I understand.
6
MR. HOCHMAN: So, just give me an
7
instruction, the instruction is either A, please
8
try to call her, have her get here at 4:30 and if
9
she shows up, Mr. Sweetapple is done or don't
10
worry about it.
11
MR. O'BOYLE: Let me use my words, I think
12
they're going to be the same. If she shows up,
13
she shows up. She knows she's supposed to as I
14
understand it.
15
MR. HOCHMAN: I don't believe she does
16
because she's not under subpoena.
17
MR. O'BOYLE: I understand. If she's
18
supposed to show up. If she doesn't show up, she
19
doesn't show up. If she does show up, we can't
20
have two depositions at once unless I try new
21
things which I have no intent on doing.
22
So, let's go on with the deposition of
23
Mr. Sweetapple.
24
MR. HOCHMAN: Okay. Just because of that, I
25
am not then going to contact the witness in an
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effort to get her
here, even though she doesn't
2
have a subpoena,
do we agree?
3
MR. O'BOYLE:
No, because I don't know
4
whether she doesn't
-- I don't know any of that.
5
But let's go on with
Mr. Sweetapple.
6
THE WITNESS:
Okay. Can I start reading
7
this again because
--
8
MR. O'BOYLE:
Please.
9
THE WITNESS:
-- little disruptive putting
10
it mildly.
11
MR. O'BOYLE:
Please, please, I apologize.
12
MR. HOCHMAN:
I can't see it any way. And
13
whatever you have
written down won't have any
14
impact on what I
do in this case because I may
15
have things that
help you. You're not going to
16
help me.
17
MR. O'B0YLE:
Boy, is that an insult or
18
what.
19
MR. HOCHMAN:
No, it's just how I would
20
litigate. It's not
about you personally.
21
THE WITNESS:
It really is hard to read, I'm
22
sorry. He wants
to ask me about each sentence, I
23
want to give him
my best answer. You guys --
24
MR. HOCHMAN:
Did the man bun comment ran
25
you off?
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THE WITNESS: Yeah, man bun, everybody
2
laughing. I read in quiet usually. This is a
3
legal pleading, it's not like reading, you know,
4
the comics.
5
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
6
Q.
Mr. Sweetapple, please don't let your counsel --
7
A.
Okay.
8
Q.
Thank you.
9
A.
You want me to stop at Count I, which is me, or
10
you want me to go on to Count II?
11
Q.
I'd like you to go through all 70, but if you
12
want to do it a piece at a time, that's fine with me.
13
A.
No, I'll go through the whole thing. I thought
14
you were just going to ask me about this one.
15
Okay. Do you want me to start with the
16
sentencing one -by -one.
17
Q.
Yeah, the paragraphs one -by -one.
18
A.
And you want to know, let me write it down, true,
19
false,
just like I'm doing an answer; true, false?
20
Q.
True, false, partially true, partially false.
21
A.
Just respond to it as I think is appropriate?
22
Q.
Yeah, or you don't know.
23
MR. GOLDSTEIN: I'm going to object --
24
THE WITNESS: If there's an objection, if
25
there's a legal conclusion or something, it goes
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
1 into lawyer/client.
2 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
3 Q. You're here --
4 A. So, Plaintiff, Martin E. O'Boyle -- Second
5 Amended Complaint. Plaintiff, Martin E. O'Boyle,
6 Plaintiff, sues Defendants, Robert A. Sweetapple
7 ("Sweetapple") and the Town of Gulf Stream ("Town") and
8 alleges as follows: Parties, jurisdiction, and venue.
9 Q. Let me stop you there, Mr. Sweetapple. It would
10 probably be easier if we started at Paragraph 7 rather
11 than the introductory.
12 A. Okay, that's fine. The Defendant, Town of Gulf
13 Stream, "Town", is a municipal corporation of the State
14 of Florida seated in the Southern District of Florida.
15 I don't have any personal knowledge of that, but
16 I presume that's true.
17 Q. One second. Okay.
18 A. Background, Plaintiff's history of First
19 Amendment activities with Town.
20 Q. Where are you, Paragraph 8 is next?
21 A. Well, there's two sevens, there's two sevens --
22 you've got seven and background and then you have
23 another background.
24 Q. I'm sorry, under background is where I was asking
25 you to start. I didn't see the first seven.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1 A. Okay. Well, I responded to the first seven, I'm
2 on the second seven.
3 Q. Okay. That's fine.
4 A. So, we're at the same place.
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. So, Plaintiff's history of First Amendment
7 activities with the Town. Paragraph -- second seven,
8 the Town is a relatively small municipality with
9 approximately a thousand residents located within its an
10 approximately five hundred acres of land.
11 My opinion is, it is a small municipality. I
12 have no idea how many residents live there. And I have
13 no idea what the geographic area of the Town is.
14 Q. Wait one second. You have to have some idea of
15 the number of residents? Example, you know it's not
16 hundred thousand?
17 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
18 THE WITNESS: Yeah. I mean, I've seen
19 somewhere a statement of the number of residents.
20 I didn't focus if it's five thousand, one
21 thousand, five hundred, seven -fifty.
22 I don't know residents you mean people that
23 are domiciled there, people come down for the
24 season. I have no idea if there's a thousand
25 residents, but, you know --
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. I'm just trying to be as candid with you as I can
4 be.
5 Q. Okay. I appreciate it.
6 A. And I'll do that with all the sentences I can.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. Okay. So, eight is, Plaintiff is a resident of
9 the Town owning and occupying the home located at
10 23 North Hidden Harbor Drive, Gulf Stream, Florida,
11 33483.
12 I believe you live in the Town. I don't know, as
13 far as, resident, if you're a voter there. I have no
14 knowledge in that regard. I know you have another --
15 another home or homes or I've seen that somewhere.
16 I recognize that address from the documents I've
17 seen. I presume that you own it. I've never looked at
18 the title to see if it's in your name or not.
19 And it says you are occupying it and I presume
20 you're occupying it, but I have no personal knowledge of
21 any of those things.
22 Q. Not even the address?
23 A. Well, I've seen the address as being related to
24 you, but I don't know if you own it, occupy it, if
25 you're a resident.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
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1 Q. Gotcha.
2 A. As I understood from what I read, it was -- it
3 was under construction or it had been demolished or had
4 some damage from a hurricane and you were -- I remember
5 there was some issues with a Jiffy John in the front or
6 some kind of problems, I forget what it was. I don't
7 know if you're living there now, but --
8 Q. Well --
9 A. What I read it was with regards to issues
10 concerning damage and code issues and something I read.
11 Q. I understand. I just --
12 A. Okay. So --
13 Q. I don't like to use bathrooms, I try to go out
14 and use the Jiffy Johns.
15 A. No, I was referring to it was under construction
16 and you were remodeling it or something. That's --
17 don't know if you're living there now or not, or how
18 long ago that was.
19 Q. Thank you.
20 A. Okay. Nine, Plaintiff is an avid supporter of
21 Florida Public Record Law and, in an exercise of his
22 constitutional and statutory rights, has over the years
23 submitted numerous public records requests in the Town
24 and various other municipal agencies.
25 I don't know if you're an avid supporter of
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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public
-- Florida's Public Records Law. I've never had
2
any conversations
with you, so I don't know who you
3
support
or what you support.
4
I don't know if you're exercising your
5
constitutional
and statutory rights.
6
And from what I have read, you have, over the
7
years,
submitted, from what I can see, several thousand
8
public
records requests to -- of what I'm aware of, is
9
the Town,
the State Attorney, the Town of Long Port.
10
I don't know that I'm aware of any other
11
municipalities or agencies as I sit here.
12
Q.
Where is that, I'm missing --
13
A.
Number nine.
14
Q.
When you say "thousands"?
15
A.
I said you asked me -- you have submitted
16
numerous,
I said I know that you've submitted -- I call
17
thousands
numerous.
18
Q.
I see.
19
A.
I don't know what you call numerous.
20
Q.
What would you call --
21
A.
I don't call a hundred numerous.
22
Q.
What do you call fifty thousand?
23
A.
Numerous.
24
Q.
One thousand numerous, fifty thousand numerous?
25
A.
Well, I'm just trying to just tell you how I read
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1
numerous. So, I'm saying, I think what you said here
2
about numerous is true because of
the numbers I'm
3
familiar with --
4
Q. Okay. So, let's go back over it.
5
A. -- from what I read.
6
Q. The Florida Public Records
Law, does that have
7
anything to do with New Jersey?
8
A. But it says in an exercise
of his constitutional
9
and statutory rights has over the
years submitted
10
numerous public records requests to the Town and various
11
other municipalities and agencies.
12
So, I took that to mean --
I'm telling you what I
13
know about. So, I know about New
Jersey, the State
14
Attorney and Gulf Stream.
15
Q. Tell me --
16
A. I take that back. I think
I know -- I am not
17
sure it was you personally, but I
-- something about
18
Delray.
19
Q. Tell me --
20
A. Talking about you personally,
right? Just in
21
your name?
22
Q. Tell me what you know about
Long Port,
23
New Jersey?
24
A. That's my work product. I
know a lot about
25
Long Port because I've done a lot
of investigation about
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1 Long Port as part of my representation of the Town.
2 Q. I see. You agree with me, do you not, that New
3 Jersey, a Florida Public Records Law, is not a law that
4 is enforceable or even existing in the State of New
5 Jersey, do you agree with that?
6 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
7 THE WITNESS: That's a legal opinion.
8 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
9 Q. But give me your laymen's opinion?
10 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Form.
11 THE WITNESS: I'll try if I understand.
12 You're saying that if somebody in New Jersey --
13 if there was a violation of the Florida Records
14 Law in Florida, can somebody sued in New Jersey
15 for that?
16 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
17 Q. No, that's not what I asked at all. What you
18 said was that the numerous public records requests were
19 submitted to, I think you said the State Attorney, the
20 Town of Gulf Stream and the State of Law Enforcement --
21 Long Port which is, of course, the State of New Jersey.
22 What I asked you was, how does the Florida Public
23 Records Law fit into records requests in the State of
24 New Jersey?
25 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
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1 THE WITNESS: When I read this, I see the
2 reference the Florida Public Records Law. But
3 then it goes on and it seems to expand and it
4 says, in the exercise of his constitution and
5 statutory rights.
6 I look at constitution as being federal, as
7 well as, any state rights. And I look at
8 statutory rights as not just being a Florida
9 statutory rights, I'm looking at all your rights
10 when read it because seems to me that you're
11 being expansive and that's the way I read -- when
12 there's an indication of rights, it would be
13 evert conceivable right related.
14 And then it says, has over the years, so in
15 my mind, I went back to Long Port in the past.
16 And then when he see submitted numerous public
17 records requests to the Town and various other
18 municipalities and agencies, I say that part is
19 true because I know you have submitted numerous
20 public records requests to Gulf Stream, the State
21 Attorney of the 15th Judicial Circuit and Long
22 Port, New Jersey. That's the way I read it.
23 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
24 Q. What would make you say that I submitted, I don't
25 know how many you said, to the 15th Judicial Circuit,
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1 that's what you said?
2
A.
The reports I read -- Well, I am not going to
3
give
you my work product.
4
Q.
I don't want your work product.
5
A.
The only way I could answer that, Mr. O'Boyle,
6
would
be to give you my work product.
7
Q.
Well, it's a matter of public record, isn't it,
8
whether someone submits a public records requests?
9
Isn't
that open to him and her and her and him?
10
A.
You can go find out that way, yes.
11
Q.
And did you find out another way?
12
A.
I am not going to disclose my work product.
13
Q.
I don't want you to disclose your work product.
14
Did you
find out another way?
15
A.
I can't answer that question without disclosing
16
my work
product.
17
Q.
I am not asking you to disclose your work
18
product.
19
A.
Okay, then, I can't answer your question.
20
Q.
Okay, that's fine. Let's go back over it.
21
A.
Okay. So, let's go to --
22
Q.
Florida Public Records Law, to your knowledge, is
23
that
the law that enforces the Records Act which happens
24
to be
called OPRAH, in New Jersey?
25
A.
Does the Florida Public Records Act enforce the
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1 New Jersey Open Public Records Act?
2 Q. No. The Florida Public Records of Law, is
3 that -- could someone -- Let me ask you this way, could
4 someone go to New Jersey and file a request for a public
5 record under -- it's called OPRAH up there, and if they
6 don't get it, sue them under the Florida Public Records
7 Law?
8 A. Well, first of all I don't practice law in New
9 Jersey, I'm not licensed in New Jersey, so I am not
10 going to give you any opinions about OPRAH.
11 But my -- and you're asking me for a legal
12 opinion, but I'll give you a lay opinion which is, I
13 don't think you could sue for the violation of a Florida
14 public records request for something that happened in
15 New Jersey.
16 Q. Just so I'm clear, what you said -- and I am not
17 trying to put words in your mouth --
18 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object.
19 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
20 Q. -- you can't utilize the Florida Public Records
21 Law to sue the State of New Jersey or any of its body
22 politics if they don't produce the records under OPRAH?
23 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
24 THE WITNESS: Well, I don't -- I don't -- I
25 don't profess to have any knowledge of OPRAH or
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1 New Jersey law.
2 And I'm not going to give you a legal
3 opinion about the Florida Act. From a lay
4 person, I told you, I don't know how -- from a
5 lay view, it wouldn't seem to me that the OPRAH
6 Law would have any provision that applied a
7 Florida violation to it. Nothing would preclude
8 that.
9 The State Legislature could, on principals
10 of comedy, for instance, permit that. But I
11 haven't cited OPRAH and I am not licensed in New
12 Jersey to opine on that. I'm just trying to give
13 you my reaction to your allegation which is what
14 you asked me to do.
15 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
16 Q. Right. And I'm trying to understand --
17 A. Okay. Well, try again because I'm sorry, I may
18 be misunderstanding something.
19 Q. You said, Plaintiff is an avid supporter of
20 Florida's Public Records Law, what factual evidence do
21 you have?
22 A. No, I said you said Plaintiff is an avid
23 supporter of Florida's Public Records Law. I don't know
24 if you're a supporter or a detractor.
25 Q. Okay.
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1 A. I don't know what your personal goals are. I
2 don't know what your personal ambitions are.
3 From a personal standpoint, I have work product
4 and I have legal conclusions that would cause me to have
5 my own opinion.
6 So, I've never spoken to you about whether you're
7 an avid supporter of Florida's Public Records Law.
8 Anybody who's an avid supporter of Florida Public
9 Records Law, in my mind, would not have the reaction
10 about his conduct at the Florida Legislature has
11 publicly made about your conduct.
12 Q. And what is that?
13 A. From what I read from reports of committees,
14 there was numerous statements of outrage and concern
15 over your activities in the public record.
16 Q. And they mentioned specifically Martin O'Boyle?
17 A. They mentioned specifically the activities that
18 you're engaged in in Gulf Stream, Florida and I can't
19 remember if they actually say your name.
20 Q. Okay.
21 A. So, I don't know if you're an avid supporter or
22 avid detractor. I don't know what your motivation is
23 for filing dozens and dozens of requests on the same
24 day.
25 And then when Mr. O'Hare comes in and does sixty
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1 the next day, I don't know if you're doing it because
2 you're an avid supporter.
3
Q.
Okay. Do you have a trailer,
a big busted
up
4
silver
trailer in Deerfield Beach?
5
A.
No.
6
Q.
On the beach?
7
A.
No.
8
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to
form.
9
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
10
Q.
Did you take one away?
11
A.
No.
12
Q.
Okay. Does an entity in which
you're involved
in
13
have a
big busted up trailer, one of
those silver
14
Airstreams on the beach in Deerfield
Beach or in
the
15
Deerfield Beach area just north of Hillsboro?
16
A.
There's no -- the entity you're
referring
to,
17
Deerfield Beach, Inc., does not have
a trailer on
the
18
beach.
19
Q.
Do you have one?
20
A.
No.
21
Q.
Okay. Was there one there?
22
A.
Was there one there?
23
Q.
Yes.
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
Okay. What happened to it?
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1 A. It has been removed.
2 Q. Okay. Were there signs surrounding it saying,
3 you can't cross the beach -- I'm sorry, the sand?
4 In other words, if I was coming from the south,
5 I'd have to stop and turn around. And if I was coming
6 from the north, I'd have to stop and turn around. Were
7 there signs like that sort of surrounding your trailer?
8 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
9 THE WITNESS: The property had signs, I
10 think, that said private property, no
11 trespassing, but the public had a right to cross
12 to get to the high water mark and crossed
13 regularly.
14 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
15 Q. Is that what the sign said or did the sign say --
16 A. The sign said what they said.
17 Q. I know. Did the signs have the sheriff's emblem
18 and say, you will be arrested if you cross the --
19 A. I'd have to look at the sign. I don't think it
20 said you will be arrested if you crossed the sand.
21 Q. Is it possible it said that?
22 A. Anything's possible. I'd have to see the sign.
23 I haven't seen the sign for some time.
24 Q. How many records requests did you make in
25 connection with that?
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1
A.
You mean, requests with the litigation of
2
Deerfield?
3
Q.
Okay.
4
A.
Town of Deerfield?
5
Q.
Okay.
6
A.
Two or three on behalf of Deerfield Beach, Inc.,
7
I believe.
8
Q.
And how about in total with Deerfield?
9
A.
That's the only matter, I think, there were any
10
requests
made.
11
Q.
And how many in total with Deerfield?
12
A.
I'm speculating, but I'd say two or three, best I
13
recall.
14
Q.
Okay. Who's Laura Watson?
15
A.
Laura Watson is a former Circuit Court Judge in
16
the 17th
Judicial Circuit.
17
Q.
And when you said "former", she retired?
18
A.
No, she was removed by the Florida Supreme Court.
19
Q.
And who represented her?
20
A.
I was one of her attorneys.
21
Q.
Okay. Who was her lead attorney?
22
A.
I believe I would be considered lead with
23
Jay Spechler. I'd say I would be considered a lead
24
attorney, at least.
25
Q.
And Jay Spechler, is he the one who owned the
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1 trailer a long with you?
2 A. I am not going to go into the ownership of a
3 company that I represent and that I am affiliated with.
4 That's private, confidential business information of
5 Mr. Spechler's, so I can't do that.
6 MR. O'BOYLE: Would you certify that, young
7 lady.
8 MR. HOCHMAN: I also --
9 THE WITNESS: You want me to keep going with
10 the document? You diverted to Deerfield.
11 MR. O'BOYLE: Yeah, I want to keep going,
12 but I'm allowed --
13 THE WITNESS: You can do what you want, I
14 just wanted to know if I should get back to what
15 I was doing or not.
16 MR. O'BOYLE: We'll figure it out.
17 THE WITNESS: I'll follow your lead,
18 Mr. O'Boyle.
19 MR. HOCHMAN: I'm going to ask the court
20 reporter for another excerpt starting with this
21 discussion about the trailer and the beach and
22 ending with my request for another excerpt,
23 please.
24 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
25 Q. How many records requests did you make with
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1 Ms. Watson or any issues surrounding Ms. Watson?
2
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
3
THE WITNESS: My best recollection would be
4
one.
5
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
6
Q.
And would that include the other lawyers in
7
addition
to you who represented her?
8
A.
I couldn't speak for the other lawyers. I don't
9
have any
recollection of theirs. I know that I filed
10
one, I
believe. I believe I filed it with the Judicial
11
Qualifications
Commission.
12
Q.
Did Mr. Spechler -- Spechler was a former judge?
13
A.
He was a judge for twenty some years, right.
14
Q.
And he was ousted, correct?
15
A.
No.
16
Q.
Judge Tobin did not denounce him?
17
A.
No.
18
Q.
What happened between him and Judge Tobin?
19
A.
Well, that's confidential. I represented
20
Judge
Spechler as well.
21
Q.
I see. Okay, that's fine.
22
Okay. In New Jersey, do you have any reason to
23
believe
that making public records is a constitutional
24
right?
25
A.
I can give you a lay opinion and I -- I don't
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1 know as a lay person because I've never read the New
2 Jersey Constitution. I've never read OPRAH. I don't
3 know if it's a constitutional right. I don't know if
4 it's a statutory right. I don't know if it's a Rule of
5 Civil Procedure. I haven't compared it to Florida Law.
6 So, I'm only giving you a lay opinion because I'm
7 not a lawyer in New Jersey.
8 Q. So, your answer is you don't know?
9 A. I don't know.
10 Q. Okay. Thank you.
11 Then we go on and said, has over the years
12 submitted numerous public records requests to the Town
13 and various other municipalities and agencies.
14 What does numerous mean?
15 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
16 THE WITNESS: Numerous, to me, in this
17 context meant like, I guess in my mind, more than
18 a hundred. Just like when I read various, I
19 thought it meant three or more which is why I
20 said I thought it was true because I had three in
21 my mind.
22 So, numerous meant to me over a hundred and
23 various meant there were three and I counted
24 three.
25
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1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2
Q.
Okay.
3
A.
So, I said, I think I understand what you're
4
saying.
5
Q.
Okay. So, numerous as it's written here, you
6
think
it means over a hundred?
7
A.
First thing that came to my mind is I said that's
8
true
because numerous, yeah, that to me is numerous.
9
Q.
Okay. That would be over a hundred?
10
A.
I knew there were thousands, so I said, sure,
11
it's
over a hundred, that's numerous.
12
Q.
Well, now you do said I knew. You didn't say I
13
heard
or I thought, you said I knew there were
14
thousands.
15
A.
Okay. I should say I read, I had information and
16
I concluded,
but I did not count.
17
Q.
Okay. Now, when you said "you read", were you
18
reading
the National Enquirer?
19
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
20
THE WITNESS: I'm not going to disclose my
21
work product.
22
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
23
Q.
Telling a -- what newspaper you're reading is
24
work
product?
25
A.
I didn't say I read a newspaper, you said that,
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1 Mr. O'Boyle.
2 MR. O'BOYLE: Can you read Mr. Sweetapple's
3 answer? I think it was one or two questions back
4 and I think you used the term newspapers.
5 THE COURT REPORTER: You used the word
6 newspapers. I'm all the way back to Judge Tobin
7 and Spechler and there's no word newspaper.
8 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
9 Q. Okay. How many, to your knowledge, records
10 requests did I submit to the Town?
11 A. What time period? I shouldn't even ask you
12 because I wouldn't answer that without having the tally
13 in front of me because I couldn't, in my mind, isolate
14 it per month or take you from March to March.
15 Q. Okay. So, where it says, over the years
16 submitted numerous public records requests of the Town
17 and various other municipalities, you don't know what
18 that means?
19 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
20 THE WITNESS: I know what it means to me. I
21 think I've told you. To me, it meant that you
22 had submitted, at least, a hundred and that
23 seemed true, was true from everything I had seen.
24 And it meant that there were, at least,
25 three municipalities or agencies. And that, I
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1 believe, is true from what you've read and seen.
2 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
3 Q. So, there were three agencies and a hundred
4 records requests, did I get that right?
5 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
6 THE WITNESS: No.
7 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
6 Q. Could you help me out?
9 A. I said when I -- when I read this and -- when you
10 said numerous, you don't put a number. So, in my mind I
11 said -- without even thinking about it, I said more than
12 a hundred. To me, that's what numerous meant.
13 I said, I know that there's more than that. That
14 seems numerous to me. So, since there are thousands,
15 numerous would be certainly met.
16 And then when I saw various other municipalities
17 and agencies, various has to be three or more. And I
18 could think of three, so I said that's true.
19 So, you're asking me what I believe just sitting
20 here reading this is true, false, somewhat true, I'm
21 going through each phrase and trying to do that.
22 Want to move to the next one?
23 Q. Hold on. Is hundred, in your opinion, acceptable
24 to a Town like Gulf Stream?
25 A. I don't have an opinion as to acceptable or
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1 unacceptable.
2 Q. Okay. Is a hundred, in your opinion, is that
3 excessive?
4 A. I'm not going to give you my legal opinion.
5 Q. I don't want it.
6 A. And you asked me if I thought this statement in
7 Paragraph 9 was true with regard to submitting numerous
8 public records requests and I've answered that.
9 I'm not going to give you my opinion as to
10 quantitative issues or legal issues.
11 Q. Give me your lay opinion, if you will?
12 A. As to what?
13 Q. As to whether a hundred is excessive?
14 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Form.
15 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
16 Q. I'm not a lawyer and I have my opinion as to
17 what --
18 A. Well, I'm not going to give you -- I don't have
19 an opinion on that, so I don't have enough facts. I
20 don't know is it being done to target a Town so that --
21 by requests by an entity that isn't real to intimidate
22 them to do what you want as Mr. Chandler was describing
23 with the hundred requests from Cafi with the Commerce
24 Group. You want me to tell you whether you think that's
25 inappropriate? That's a legal conclusion, so I am not
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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1 going to give you that.
2
Q.
And that's fine. But again, you could give me a
3
laymen's
opinion as opposed to a legal opinion?
4
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
5
THE WITNESS: What's that?
6
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
7
Q.
I said, you can give me a laymen's opinion?
8
A.
I can't.
9
Q.
You can't?
10
A.
No.
11
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
12
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
13
Q.
Okay.
14
A.
I haven't thought of records requests as a laymen
15
ever.
16
Q.
Okay. Are you familiar with the most recent
17
Supreme
Court decision in records?
18
A.
Justice Pariente's decision regarding attorney's
19
fees?
20
Q.
I think it went beyond attorney's fees.
21
A.
Yes, I've read that opinion.
22
Q.
Okay. So, doesn't that opinion make a difference
23
whether
you were well intended, bad intended, harassing,
24
doesn't
make any difference at all in the scheme of
25
making
public records?
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1 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to form.
2 THE WITNESS: Opinion speaks for itself. I
3 am not going to give you my legal analysis of the
4 opinion. You have your own lawyers.
5 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. You will argue what you believe the opinion says
8 and we'll argue what we believe the opinion says.
9 Q. From a laymen's point of view, if someone told
10 you that someone submitted ten thousands requests at
11 Gulf Stream, to Gulf Stream, how would you react to
12 that?
13 A. I don't know. I would be speculating. If I --
14 it's impossible for me to give you an opinion as if I
15 were a laymen looking at this because my mind is totally
16 implicated with what I know as a lawyer and what I know
17 from all my work product.
18 So, I can't tell you -- if I didn't know all the
19 information I have, how I would think about this as just
20 a lay person. But I imagine, I can speculate, but
21 that's all I can do.
22 MR. O'BOYLE: Madam reporter, would you
23 kindly certify that, please.
24 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
25 Q. We can now go on to the next one.
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1 A. Paragraph 10?
2 Q. Yes.
3 A. Ten, occasionally Plaintiff's public records
4 requests are not complied with and Plaintiff has his --
5 has exercised his right under Florida Statute 119 to
6 bring a lawsuit to enforce his rights under the public
7 records laws.
8 Whether or not your public records requests are
9 complied with is a legal conclusion and legal opinion
10 which I will not provide and cannot provide to you.
11 I don't have any -- I've never seen any ruling
12 where that legal conclusion has been established.
13 And then it says, and Plaintiff has exercised his
14 rights under Florida Statute to bring a lawsuit to
15 enforce his rights under the public records law.
16 I am aware that you have brought numerous
17 lawsuits to enforce your rights under the public records
18 law.
19 Q. Now, unless I heard wrong, Paragraph 10, the
20 words are "are not". I thought you said "are"?
21 A. No, are not complied with. You said are not
22 complied with. Maybe I spoke too quickly.
23 Q. Okay. So, occasionally Plaintiff's public
24 records requests are not complied with, okay.
25 Eleven.
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1 A. Eleven, Plaintiff has filed approximately
2 twenty-nine lawsuits against the Town for alleged
3 violations of the public records law.
4 I don't know if that's the amount. As of the
5 date of this lawsuit -- is the date of this lawsuit the
6 date on the top, 6/19/2015?
7 It says the date of the lawsuit, is that the date
a the lawsuit was filed or the date the second amended
9 complaint was filed.
10 Q. It looks like the date of the Second Amended
11 Complaint.
12 A. So, in July or June of last year, as of the date
13 of this lawsuit, Plaintiff is currently engaged in
14 twelve lawsuits against the Town related to alleged
15 violations of the -- I believe that's close. As of June
16 of last year, I think that you had approximately,
17 twelve cases pending.
18 Plaintiff has also filed one lawsuit for
19 violation of 2680114 Florida Stat because he was not
20 allowed to speak before the Town for a parking ordinance
21 in response to the Plaintiff's parking his truck at Town
22 Hall, a truck which contained politically charged
23 banners critical to the mayor.
24 I have never reviewed that lawsuit. I have heard
25 that deposition testimony of you and someone else about
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1 it. I don't have any firsthand knowledge of the Town
2 passing a parking ordinance. All I know is
3 lawyer/client communication on that subject.
4 I don't know if the truck contained politically
5 charged banners critical to the mayor. I remember
6 seeing a picture of a truck at some point somewhere and
7 I don't remember even what it said.
8 Q. Are you familiar, by the way, with the Sunshine
9 Suit?
10 A. The Sunshine Suit. What do you mean by the
11 Sunshine Suit?
12
Q.
There's a lawsuit,
it's --
I call it the Sunshine
13
Suit,
it's a violation, I
guess,
of the Sunshine Law of
14
which
the Defendants are
you, Mr.
Randolph,
15
Mr.
O'Connor
-- Ms. O'Connor, I'm
sorry, and
the Town
16
and
you are
their counsel. Does
that sound
right?
17
A. There were a number of
questions there.
18
MR.
GOLDSTEIN: I'm
going to object to any
19
line of
questioning or
discovery related to other
20
pending
legal actions
as the Magistrate has
21
already
ruled on upon
that he will not allow
22 discovery in other pending legal actions.
23 THE WITNESS: There were a number of
124 questions. I think I understand what you're
125 getting at if you will indulge me.
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1
MR. O'BOYLE: Sure.
2
THE WITNESS: I believe you're asking me if
3
I'm aware of a lawsuit that you brought a long
4
with another entity against Ms. O'Connor,
5
Mr. Randolph, Mr. Morgan and me in the 15th
6
Judicial Circuit related to allegations of
7
violation of the Sunshine Law and the answer is
B
yes, if that's your question.
9
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
10
Q.
That is.
11
A.
Okay.
12
Q.
And you are counsel under that -- or in
13
connection with that suit, would that be correct?
14
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
15
THE WITNESS: I am.
16
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Counsel for whom?
17
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
18
Q.
Counsel for the Defendants.
19
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Are you asking if he's
20
counsel for all the named Defendants?
21
MR. O'BOYLE: Yes.
22
THE WITNESS: I don't believe so. I need to
23
see my appearance to be sure, but I think
24
I'm -- I think my firm and Mr. -- I believe Josh,
25
your firm is counsel for my -- for me, I'm
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1 personally a Defendant.
2 So, I believe my firm and Mr. Goldstein's
3 firm are counsel for me in that case. It's hard
4 to keep track of you, Mr. O'Boyle.
5 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. Are we on the next paragraph?
8 Q. We certainly are. Rolling right a long.
9 A. If I'm not mistaken, that's twelve, okay.
10 Plaintiff, likewise, engages in various forms of
11 constitutionally protected acts, speech, with respect to
12 the Town. For example, in 2013, Plaintiff painted the
13 facade of his Gulf Stream house with various political
14 messages criticizing the Town, its then mayor and its
15 commissioners as a result of the Town denying
16 Plaintiff's request for a building permit. The Town
17 ultimately settled the dispute which made its way to
18 Federal Court issuing an apology to Plaintiff and
19 agreeing to pay him $180,000.
20 All right. So, I know you engage -- you engage
21 in various forms of constitutionally protected acts,
22 speech, with respect to the Town, that's a legal
23 conclusion.
24
In 2013, Plaintiff
painted the facade
of his Gulf
25
Stream house with various
political messages
criticizing
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1 the Town, its then mayor and its commissioners. That
2 was before my involvement and I've never seen the facade
3 of your house painted with political messages.
4 I don't know if it was done as a result of the
5 Town denying Plaintiff's request for a building permit.
6 I don't know why you painted this political message on
7 the facade of your house.
8 I did
hear you
in
your
deposition
say you did it
9 to file or --
I think,
to
file
your First
Amendment
10
Rights you said, or
to enforce your
First Amendment
11
Rights I
heard your
testimony, but I
don't have any
12
personal
knowledge
as to why you did
this.
13
Q. Okay. So, you
I do know that the Town
ultimately
settled the
14
dispute
and issued an
apology and
agreed
to pay you a
15
sum of
money because
I did read
a settlement
agreement.
16
Q.
So, the part
that says,
which made
it's way to
17
Federal
Court, that's
true, am
I correct?
18
A.
I don't -- I
don't know.
I don't
remember if --
19 I remember reading --
20 Q. It's in the settlement agreement?
21 A. I remember reading the settlement agreement. I
22 don't remember the caption if it had one.
23
Q. Okay. So, you
don't know
whether the settlement
24
agreement dealt with
the Federal
Court action?
25 A. I don't recall that.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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1 Q. Okay. But you do remember that the settlement
2 agreement, there was issuing -- there was an apology
3 issued?
4 A. My recollection is that was in the agreement.
5 Q. And the 180,000?
6 A. I didn't -- the number doesn't stick out with me.
7 I didn't -- didn't remember a number.
8 Q. There was a number, though?
9 A. There was a number, yeah. I mean, somewhere in
10 my mind when I thought -- I think 170,000, so that's
11 close to what I think I'm remembering having read.
12 Q. Trying to shorten me 10,000?
13 A. No, I don't want to do that to you.
14 Q. Okay. Number 13.
15 A. In February 2014, Plaintiff announced that he
16 would run for a council seat in Gulf Stream and
17 subsequently began campaigning throughout the Town and
18 neighboring municipalities.
19 I had no knowledge in February of 2014 that you
20 announced you would run for a council seat in Gulf
21 Stream.
22 And subsequently began campaigning throughout the
23 Town and neighboring municipalities.
24 Plaintiff placed numerous campaign signs
25 throughout the Town, many of which were conclusively
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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1 removed by Gulf Stream agents, officials. The signs
2 were targeted for removal at the request of the Town
3 Manager Thrasher because the signs displayed political
4 content.
5
I don't believe I saw
any of your campaign
signs
6
in the Town of Gulf Stream.
I don't know if your
signs
7
were removed by Gulf Stream
agents or officials.
I
8
don't know if the signs were
targeted for removal
at the
9
request of Town Manager Thrasher
because the signs
10
displayed political content.
I have no knowledge
of
11
that.
12
Q.
That's fine.
13
A.
Fourteen, Mr.
O'Boyle, 14?
14
Q. Yes, yes.
15
A. During the
same time period,
Plaintiff engaged in
16
constitutionally
protected speech by
flying banners and
17
displaying signs
that were critical
of his opponents or
18
otherwise carried
political message.
19
I take that
you're referring
to February 2014.
20 And I never saw any banners or signs that were critical
21 to your opponents. And I never saw any of your signs in
22 that time that carried political messages.
23 In response, the Town threatened Plaintiff with
24 adverse action, including code enforcement hearings
25 carrying daily fines not to exceed $500 per day or per
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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1 sign per day if he did not remove his signs or otherwise
2 cease such political speech.
3 I have no knowledge of any such -- no personal
4 knowledge of any of that.
5 Q. Okay. Give me ten seconds, please?
6 A. Sure.
7 THE COURT REPORTER: Can we take a break.
8 MR. HOCHMAN: Let the record reflect it is
9 now 5:00 o'clock.
10 THE WITNESS: This is when I'm supposed to
11 leave, but I'm going to do my whole seven hours
12 so I satisfy his needs.
13 (Thereupon, a recess was taken; after which
14 the following proceedings were had:)
15 THE WITNESS: How much more time do I have
16 because I want to get to a baccalaureate for my
17 youngest daughter, but I want to give you all the
18 time.
19 MR. O'BOYLE: I don't know.
20 MS. BAEZ: I'll let you know. You guys can
21 go back on the record.
22 THE WITNESS: I'm happy to stay here.
23 MR. GOLDSTEIN: I have an hour left based on
24 my calculation.
25 MS. BAEZ: It's possible just let me check
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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1
on it.
2
MR. O'BOYLE: What are you calculating?
3
MS. BAEZ: You guys can go back on.
4
MR. O'BOYLE: I think that's a good idea.
5
Spotlight is on you.
6
I think we're 13.
7
MR. GOLDSTEIN: No, we just finished 13.
8
THE WITNESS: Where were we?
9
MR. GOLDSTEIN: We were in 13 -- 14, I think
10
we were on 14.
11
THE WITNESS: Do you have any questions on
12
13, Mr. O'Boyle.
13
MR. O'BOYLE: No, I do not. I think he's
14
right.
15
MS. BAEZ: I have an hour -and -a -half.
16
MR. HOCHMAN: That's not going to be
17
acceptable to me.
18
MS. BAEZ: I didn't ask. I'm saying, that's
19
what I have.
20
MR. O'BOYLE: That's what the seven hours
21
comes to, right?
22
MS. BAEZ: Yeah.
23
MR. HOCHMAN: I understand the notion of
24
seven hours is an approximate, but I don't think
25
starting at 9:00 and ending after 7:00 o'clock
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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1 is appropriate.
THE
WITNESS:
2 MR. O'BOYLE:
Anyway,
we're not going to go
3 into that, we're
going to
go through it and if
4 you want to walk
out, you'll
walk out.
5 THE WITNESS:
Okay.
Ready?
6 MR. O'BOYLE:
I am.
10
7
THE
WITNESS:
During
this same time period,
8
Plaintiff
engaged in
constitutionally
may be
protected
9
speech.
I thought
we did
this by --
yeah, 14.
10
MR.
GOLDSTEIN:
Yeah,
I think we're
on 14.
11
THE
WITNESS:
I said
-- I'll do
it again if
12 you want.
13 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
14
Q.
Just one
second.
Let
me
look
at it because you
15
may be
right.
I don't
think
we
did
14.
16 A. Okay. So, during the same time period, Plaintiff
17 engaged in constitutionally protected speech by flying
18 banners and displaying signs that were critical of his
19 opponents or otherwise carried political messages.
20
So, I don't
have any personal
knowledge
21
concerning whether or not you were engaging
in
22
constitutionally
protected tpeech.
I don't know if you
23 were flying banners or displaying signs in February of
24 2014. So, I don't know if they were critical of your
25 opponents or otherwise carried political messages.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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1 And then, I have no personal knowledge with
2 regard to the statement that the Town threatened
3 Plaintiff with adverse action, including code
4 enforcement hearings, carrying daily fines not to exceed
5 $500 per sign per day if he did not remove his signs and
6 otherwise cease such political speech.
7 Q. Before we go to 15, let me ask you this, were you
8 aware that I was arrested in the Town?
9 A. When?
10 Q. I'm going to say three to four months ago. It
11 was after a 5:00 o'clock meeting, one of the late
12 meetings, and they had two boards in the lobby and a lot
13 of propaganda. You may have even been there that night,
14 although I don't really remember you.
15 A. No, I wasn't there.
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. I didn't see you get arrested.
18 Q. Okay.
19 A. No.
20 Q. And I was told later on that the only reason that
21 I was arrested is because they knew I was going to sue
22 the Town for their conduct and they wanted to get on an
23 even playing ground, playing field?
24 A. I have no knowledge.
25 Q. You have no knowledge of that?
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1 A. No.
2 Q. Okay. Fair enough.
3 A. Where was I again?
4 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Fifteen.
5 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
6 Q. Fifteen.
7 A. Fifteen, right. As a result of the removal of
8 his campaign signs, the threats of official adverse
9 action of his political signs were not removed and other
10 conduct that -- by the Town. Plaintiff filed another
11 federal action against the Town in March 2014.
12 I had no personal knowledge of that.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. After the March 2014 election, the Plaintiff
15 continued to criticize Town officials with banners on
16 the side of his truck which he would park from time to
17 time at Town Hall to ensure maximum visibility and
18 political effectiveness because Town Hall is the seat of
19 the Town's legislative judicial and executive branches.
20 As I told you at some point, I became aware of a
21 fact that a sign -- regarding the towing of a truck, but
22 that's my work product. I have no knowledge of the
23 March elections, your criticizing Town officials with
24 banners on the truck during the election or any of that.
25 Q. Okay. Let me, before we go on to the next one,
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1 are you a member of the Gulf Stream Racquet and Tennis
2 Club?
3
A.
No.
4
Q.
Are you a member of any clubs?
5
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
6
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
7
Q.
In that area, the Delray?
8
A.
No. I was a summer member of the Ocean Club many
9
years
ago when my children were at Gulf Stream, but they
10
only liked
that when they were little.
11
Q.
Does your wife know my wife, Sheila?
12
A.
I believe they did.
13
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to form.
14
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
15
Q.
They're both still alive, right?
16
A.
I mean, they knew each other -- they know each
17
other.
They were at Gulf Stream School as mothers
18
together.
19
Q.
And do they still spend time together to your
20
knowledge?
21
A.
Not that I'm aware of, but I don't ask my wife
22
her --
about her friends and who she talks to or --
23
unless
she tells me something. I know she held your
24
wife in very high regard.
25
Q.
Has she said anything derogative, if that's the
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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1 right word, about my wife to your knowledge?
2 A. Who is that?
3 Q. Your wife?
4 A. Well, I wouldn't divulge my husband/wife
5 communications, but I can tell you that I'm remembering
6 back from many years ago and she had very high regard
7 for Sheila.
8 Q. And you didn't want to answer that because of the
9 spousal privilege?
10 A. Well, I don't want to go into -- I don't want to
11 open the door to talking about everything I talk to my
12 wife, but that was said not in confidence.
13 And I remember, if I'm not mistaken, that your
14 wife and my wife were room mothers, maybe, for fifth
15 grade for your daughter -- one -- your daughter and one
16 of my daughters, and they worked together.
17 Q. Did you ever invite or did anyone in your family
18 ever invite anyone over to your home for a -- for
19 something social?
20 A. Anyone over or anyone in your family over?
21 Q. Anyone over for something social who you had
22 charged with the unauthorized practice of law?
23 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
24 THE WITNESS: Are you referring to Jonathan,
25 obviously, is that the person you're talking
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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225
1
about?
2
Has he ever been to my house for social
3
events? Not that I'm aware of.
4
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
5
Q.
Okay.
6
A.
I don't remember -- I don't remember -- I don't
7
think
Jonathan was in any of my children's classes and I
8
don't
remember Jonathan as a young man at all.
9
Q.
How about Sarah O'Boyle?
10
A.
Sarah had been to our house and Berkeley had been
11
to your
house, I believe, when they were in fifth grade
12
or something.
How many years ago is that, fifteen? I
13
don't
know. I'm getting -- at 62, I'm not wanting to go
14
count
anymore.
15
Q.
Only two more than me, so --
16
Well, we stopped at 16, did we?
17
A.
No, we made it to 62 and 64.
18
Q.
You're a funny guy.
19
A.
So, let's see, 16.
20
MR. GOLDSTEIN: I think we're seventeen.
21
THE WITNESS: Seventeen, okay. That was a
22
good year, too.
23
These are just a few of many examples of
24
Plaintiff's exercise of constitutionally
25
protected speech as it relates to the Town for
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1
the last -- for, at least, the past two years
2
Plaintiff has displayed numerous signs and flown
3
numerous banners critical of the Town, its
4
mayors, its commissioners and other agents of the
5
Town.
6
Plaintiff has, likewise, attended numerous
7
town meetings and events during which he has
8
personally voiced his criticism of the same
9
group.
10
I think the first sentence is a legal
11
conclusion. I know you displayed banners for a
12
very brief period, I don't think it was anywhere
13
near two years. I think, it was like a month or
14
two. And I'm, again, going from like June 13th
15
to June 15th for two years.
16
I wasn't aware of any -- personally aware
17
of any signs that you were flying in Gulf Stream
18
or displaying in Gulf Stream.
19
The only thing that I can say is the work
20
product I have regarding learning about the
21
banners critical of the Town. I have never -- I
22
don't believe -- I'm trying to remember if I ever
23
attended any town meeting where I've seen you.
24
I've watched videos. I don't believe I've ever
25
seen you at a town meeting. I don't think you've
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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227
1 ever seen you at an event where you've criticized
2 the group. That's my best recollection.
3 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
4 Q. We can move on.
5 A. Okay. Plaintiff's above described constitutional
6 speech and lawsuits were not undertaken and filed to
7 harass the Town for any improper purpose. Rather, each
8 of the lawsuits filed by the Plaintiff against the Town
9 was filed to enforce a specific constitutional or
10 statutory right which Plaintiff contends was violated by
11 the Town or its officials. And the above described
12 speech was undertaken to voice legitimate concerns of
13 the Town's administration.
14 I have no personal knowledge of the lawsuits. I
15 don't think I've read one of them.
16 I don't know what your purpose was for filing
17 these lawsuits. I don't know if you contend that your
18 rights were violated by the Town in those lawsuits. And
19 I don't know if you were expressing legitimate concerns
20 because I've never looked at those lawsuits.
21 Q. Let me ask you this, are you familiar with the
22 public records law in Florida, Chapter 119, would that
23 be a true statement?
24 A. I believe so.
25 Q. Okay. And you consider yourself and/or your firm
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1 a contractor of the Town of Gulf Stream?
2 A. That's a legal conclusion which I'm not going to
3 provide you a legal opinion I am not going to provide
4 you.
5 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object.
6 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
7 Q. Okay. Do you have any public records, either
8 personally or in your firm that would be available to a
9 requestor in connection with the Town of Gulf Stream?
10 A. That's a legal conclusion. I'm not going to give
11 you my legal opinion.
12 Q. So, if I made a request for a legal document as I
13 made to your counsel and you had it -- I say "you", I'm
14 using you or your firm interchangeably, would I receive
15 it?
16 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to form.
17 THE WITNESS: That's a legal conclusion that
18 would depend on a number of factors. I'm not
19 going to give you my legal opinion even in a
20 vacuum which is what you're asking for.
21 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
22 Q. What would be the number of factors?
23 A. Did it relate to my representation of the Town or
24 did it relate to the personal matter, a firm matter,
25 some other client matter. Am I a contractor. Is it --
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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1 there are a number of factors such as those.
2 Q. It would relay to your representation of the
3 Town?
4 A. That would be one of the things, yeah.
5 Q. Well, would there be any others?
6 A. Yeah. Am I contractor or not as a legal matter,
7 a thresh hold matter.
8 Q. At the conclusion of a litigation -- and when say
9 "litigation", example, with myself and the Town of Gulf
10 Stream, and I ask you for your file, as you sit here
11 without looking at the law, do you believe that you
12 would have the obligation to produce it?
13 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
14 THE WITNESS: You're asking me yet, again,
15 for an opinion. And I have a legal opinion, but
16 I'm paid to give my legal opinion to Gulf Stream
17 and I'm going to give my legal opinion to Gulf
18 Stream.
19 You have to either pay your lawyer or ask
20 your son to come up with your own legal theories
21 in this case.
22 I represent opposing parties. I would think
23 by now you would understand that because we've
24 gone through this.
25
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1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2
Q.
I do understand it. And I guess the best way to
3
answer
it is for me to make a public request this
4
evening
to you and your firm, whereupon, we'll expect a
5
response.
And if we don't expect a response, you could
6
expect
a response.
7
A.
Mr. O'Boyle --
8
MR. GOLDSTEIN: No, there's no question
9
pending.
10
THE WITNESS: Yes. What's the question?
11
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Move to strike.
12
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
13
Q.
The question is, it would be a post that I
14
wouldn't
want to take. All I want to know is to have a
15
sense
of how you would address such a request. And it
16
sounds
like to me that you don't want to tell me.
17
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
18
THE WITNESS: Is that a question?
19
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
20
Q.
Yes.
21
A.
So, you want to know how I would address
22
something
in the future without seeing it or doing any
23
research
on knowing anything about it?
24
And all I can say is, that's speculation and I
25
can't
answer that, Mr. O'Boyle, with all due respect.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
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1 Q. And with all due respect to you, Mr. Sweetapple,
2 anytime a records request is made, it's in the future.
3 It's not in the past, it's in the future.
4 If I make a records request to Mr. Goldstein,
5 it's in the future.
6 A. Is that a question?
7 MR. GOLDSTEIN: No, it's not a question.
8 MR. O'BOYLE: Yes, it is a question.
9 MR. GOLDSTEIN: No, it's not. If you'd like
10 to form it in the phrase of a question, move to
11 strike your commentary.
12 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
13 Q. Let me do it again and waste some time as
14 Mr. Goldstein says.
15 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to commentary. Move
16 to strike again.
17 MR. HOCHMAN: Mr. O'Boyle, let me just let
18 you know it's after 5:00. You know we'd like to
19 get out of here before 6:00. And I don't think
20 you asking this witness about how he would handle
21 a future public records request is, in any way,
22 relevant to any allegation in the Second Amended
23 Complaint or any amended complaint.
24 Please, I'm asking if you can just go over
25 the issues that are in the lawsuit rather than
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1
create new issues, it would be greatly be
2
appreciated.
3
MR. O'BOYLE: And I would love to
4
accommodate you, but I have a job to do and I
5
intend to do it.
6
And I apologize. If you went ahead and made
7
a schedule, remember with Ms. Randolph was
8
supposed to be here, she isn't, that was supposed
9
to be until 8:00 o'clock at night.
10
So. If you made other plans, shame on you.
11
MR. HOCHMAN: You say 8:00 o'clock at night,
12
why do you say that?
13
MR. O'BOYLE: Because she was supposed to
14
start at 4:30 and end at 8:00 p.m.
15
MR. HOCHMAN: I was not aware of that.
16
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Neither party agreed to
17
having a deposition and stay until 8:00 o'clock.
18
You set that on your own.
19
MR. HOCHMAN: And the notion was that if you
20
had a few questions to ask her, there would be
21
sufficient time to ask her, but not for an
22
extended deposition on a Friday right before a
23
holiday weekend. I'm just asking you as a matter
24
of an accommodation --
25
MR. O'BOYLE: I heard you and I'm -- I told
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1
you yesterday when you walked out or the day
2
before whatever it was, that I was going to do
3
the best I can and I got as close to the end as I
4
could and you decided to walk out. And that was
5
your prerogative and you can walk out now.
6
That's your prerogative or walk out anytime.
7
I'm going to keep on doing this. The more
8
we have these discussions, the more time we're
9
going to need. So, I would ask you to take a
10
chill pill.
11
MR. HOCHMAN: I'm going to make one last
12
comment, with respect to the issue of future
13
public records requests, that's what I'm talking
14
about. If you want to go back to what you marked
15
as Exhibit Number 1 and talk about the
16
allegations, then that I believe it is relevant
17
and you can continue on that path.
18
MR. O'BOYLE: Okay. Have you been taking
19
all this down?
20
THE COURT REPORTER: Yes.
21
MR. O'BOYLE: Okay. I am not going to
22
bother you to go all the way back then.
23
Where were we, Mr. Sweetapple?
24
THE WITNESS: I'm following your lead at
25
this point.
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1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2 Q. Where did we leave off? I know how disruptive
3 Mr. Hochman can be, but let's try to --
4 A. Well, you were asking me about future public
5 records requests on which -- and what obligations there
6 are legally to provide files once litigation is
7 concluded, which has nothing to do with the pleading
8 that's in front of me.
9 Would you like me to go back and try to figure
10 out where we were before you diverted into that subject?
11 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Nineteen.
12 THE WITNESS: Nineteen.
13 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
14 Q. Yeah, if you would like to do that.
15 A. Okay. So, I think -- I think Mr. Goldstein is
16 correct and I think 19 is the next paragraph.
17 Q. Okay.
18 A. Plaintiff used the above described lawsuits as
19 meritorious and necessary to enforce State and Federal
20 laws and with respect to, at least, some of the public
21 records lawsuits filed by Plaintiff, the Town's current
22 Mayor, Scott Morgan, has stated on the record that he
23 agrees the cases have merit.
24 I don't know what your view is of the above
25 described lawsuits.
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1 I don't know if they're necessary to enforce
2 State and Federal laws.
3 And I don't know what Mr. Morgan has stated on
4 the record, and I don't know what record you're
5 referring to.
6 Q. The Beatles White album.
7 A. If it's in a court proceeding or city meeting,
8
what you're
referring to.
9
Q. I'm
joking. Let's go
to twenty.
10
A. Okay. In response to
the Plaintiff's lawsuit,
11
the Town,
through the actions
of its mayor, its town
12
manager,
the town police force
and Sweetapple have
13 endeavored to forego Defendant/Plaintiff's various cases
14 on the merits and have opted instead to engage in
15 threats, intimidation and harassment designed to cause
16 Plaintiff to dismiss his lawsuits against the Town.
17 Okay. So, I don't believe I have endeavored to
18 forego defending the lawsuits I'm handling on the
19 merits. I think I have vigorously attempted to defend
20 those cases on the merits.
21 I don't think I have ever spoken to you, written
22 to you, threatened you, intimidated you, harassed you, I
23 don't think I've ever done anything to cause you to
24 dismiss your lawsuits against the Town.
25 And let me go on, next page.
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1 Q. Wait, wait, wait. In Paragraph 20, if I'm
2 correct, that you told Ms. O'Connor that you were going
3 to get to me through my son, would you consider that a
4 threat?
5 A. First of all --
6 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
7 THE WITNESS: -- a threat is when you say
8 something to someone and I haven't spoken to you
9 ever about any of this litigation, I don't
10 believe, at any time, nor have I made any threats
11 to your counsel, nor have I intimidated you or
12 harassed you.
13 I did not say to Ms. O'Connor in front of
14 anyone or at any other time that I was going to
15 get to you through your son.
16 I have a pending -- I had a pending motion
17 to disqualify the O'Boyle Law Firm and you had a
18 reaction to it, apparently. And if you deemed
19 that as intimidation or threat or harassment, I'm
20 sorry, that's called a legal proceeding.
21
22 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
23 Q. If it were stated out in the hallway of a public
24 building, a courthouse, that's called a legal
25 proceeding?
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1
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to form.
2
THE WITNESS: No, I'm saying the Motion to
3
Disqualify the O'Boyle Law Firm is part of a
4
legal proceeding.
5
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
6
Q.
I don't -- I don't know whether --
7
A.
That's not harassment or threatening or
8
intimidation,
so I don't know what you're referring to.
9
And I
did not say that I was going to get to you through
10
your son.
11
Q.
Would you like to --
12
A.
No, no. In fact, I --
13
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
14
THE WITNESS: I spent time with your son and
15
had a nice chat with him at one of the
16
depositions. I have no desire to hurt your son
17
or to hurt you.
18
I have a desire to do my job and I have to
19
do my job as the facts come to me. And when I
20
got involved in this case, I had no idea that
21
defending public records cases was going to
22
result in someone calling me in July and telling
23
me they wanted to report criminal or fraudulent
24
behavior.
25
But, Mr. O'Boyle, I don't make my cases. I
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1
don't choose my facts. I don't choose my
2
witnesses. What I do do, is I try to ethically
3
and competently discharge my duty to my client.
4
And unfortunately, I have to do it regardless of
5
who the other side is.
6
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
7
Q.
And I'm not -- I'm not disputing that.
8
A.
Well, thank you. I'm glad you're not disputing
9
that.
10
MR. GOLDSTEIN: There's no question pending.
11
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
12
Q.
You said in July something about criminal and
13
then another type of behavior.
14
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Objection, mischaracterizes
15
his testimony.
16
THE WITNESS: What are you referring to?
17
MR. O'BOYLE: Young lady, would you read
18
that back to make Mr. Goldstein happy' -
19
MR. GOLDSTEIN: I know what his testimony
20
is, you don't need to make me happy and read back
21
my client's testimony.
22
MR. O'BOYLE: Would you kindly.
23
MR. GOLDSTEIN: You need to ask the next
24
question.
25
MR. O'BOYLE: Would you kindly read that
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1 back, please. We want to see him have a smiley
2 face.
3 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Move to strike commentary.
4 THE WITNESS: I believe I said that Mr. -- I
5 didn't choose to have Mr. Chandler call me and
6 tell me that he wanted to report criminal or
7 fraudulent conduct to me.
8 When I got involved in this litigation, I
9 thought it was going to be public records
10 litigation. I didn't know public records were
11 going to be in this dimension. I didn't --
12 MR. GOLDSTEIN: There's no question.
13 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
14 Q. So, Mr. Chandler said that I was engaged in
15 criminal activity.
16 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
17 THE WITNESS: When Mr. Chandler called me,
18 he called me, he said, to report criminal or
19 fraudulent activities involving Cafi. And then
20 that's when I went into discussions immediately
21 about whether or not he had an attorney.
22 And then I believe his affidavit and his
23 statements discuss the fact that -- I think his
24 affidavit discussed the fact that he called me
25 and said that.
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1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2 Q. Did you advise him to go to the State Attorney's
3 Office?
4 A. No.
5 Q. Why not?
6 A. Because I'm not his attorney.
7 Q. You're not his baby-sitter either. The time that
8 you spent on that huge interview and on the affidavit
9 and so forth, if someone does something wrong and you're
10 a lawyer, aren't you supposed to report it?
11 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
12 THE WITNESS: In terms of -- in terms of
13 Mr. Chandler's statement, I went and took his
14 sworn statement and I did not give him any legal
15 advise. I took it and, of course, then
16 appropriately investigated it.
17 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
18 Q. Why did you not go to the State Attorney's Office
19 with that information?
20 A. I'm not going to disclose the Town's work product
21 or communications with law enforcement with regard to
22 this matter.
23 Q. It wouldn't be the Town, would it? It would be
24 you, personally, as a member of the Bar.
25 Don't you have an obligation as a member of the
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1 Bar?
2
A.
I'm not going to give you a legal opinion on
3
that.
4
Q.
All right.
5
A.
Read the rules regulating the Bar. Speak to your
6
son.
It discusses what type of criminal conduct. If
7
it's your client you have to report, not some other --
8
there's
no special duty --
9
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Enough.
10
MR. HOCHMAN: Ms. Court Reporter, I'm going
11
to ask for another excerpt which is the beginning
12
of this discussion about Paragraph 20 all the
13
testimony through this request, thank you.
14
Is this the third or fourth?
15
THE COURT REPORTER: Fifth.
16
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
17
Q.
Which number?
18
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Twenty-one.
19
THE WITNESS: Ready for 21.
20
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
21
Q.
Yeah. Is your voice all right?
22
A.
Pardon?
23
Q.
Is your voice all right?
24
A.
I'm starting to get a little horse.
25
Q.
Because Mr. Goldstein is answering all your
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1 questions.
2 MR. GOLDSTEIN: I was trying to help a long.
3 THE WITNESS: I appreciate your asking
4 because my voice is getting a little horse, but I
5 don't want to drink a lot of water because then I
6 need another two -minute break.
7 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
8 Q. Good enough for me.
9 A. A vicious circle.
10 Q. So, 21?
11 A. I think we're at the top of -- I was turning to
12 Page 5, so we were at constitutionally protected speech,
13 critical of the Town and its agents and ultimately move
14 from the Town due to pressure against Plaintiff and his
15 family.
16 I have done nothing -- as to the allegation as to
17 me I've done nothing. I never asked you to cease your
18 constitutionally protected speech in any regard nor have
19 I asked you any of your attorneys to do that.
20 I have never, in any way, asked you to move from
21 the Town due to the pressure against Plaintiff and his
22 family.
23 So, I don't know what you're referring to there.
24 Q. Okay. Let me ask you this, did you ever threaten
25 Mr. O'Hare or any of his lawyers by saying something
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1 akin to, if you drop your lawsuits, we'll keep you out
2 of the RICO?
3 And when I say "you", I'm talking about
4 Mayor Morgan, the Town, Ms. O'Connor, if you drop your
5 lawsuits, we won't file a RICO suit against you. Do you
6 remember anything like that?
7 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
8 THE WITNESS: I'm not going to disclose any
9 communications from the September 3rd mediation.
10 So, in terms if you want to know about
11 communications with Mr. Hannah, because I had no
12 communications with Mr. O'Hare directly other
13 than, I believe, in the September 3rd -- my
14 meetings with Mr. Hannah were without Mr. O'Hare.
15 And in meetings with Mr. Hannah, I indicated
16 to him that the Town was considering and intended
17 to go forward with a case against Mr. O'Hare for
18 being part of an alleged scheme to defraud that
19 had been described by Mr. Chandler.
20 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
21 Q. Why was Mr. Chandler not named in the RICO suit
22 considering his history, such as, fraud on the court,
23 such as, false indigent statements, such as, the most
24 prolific request of records in the state to my
25 knowledge, such as, being the one who made the request
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1 to Wanton Group, as well as, hundreds of other third
2 party vendors, contractors, that are liable under 119?
3 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
4 THE WITNESS: First of all, you're calling
5 for a legal conclusion.
6 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
7 Q. No, I'm not.
8 A. A legal opinion as to why something wasn't done.
9 Second of all, that wasn't my ultimate decision,
10 so I can't answer that.
11 Q. Whose ultimate decision was it?
12 A. The Town and consultation with the Richmond Greer
13 Law Firm. And I believe -- I can't remember without
14 looking if the Jones Foster Law Firm was also a filer of
15 record, but I -- I just can't remember.
16 Q. By the way, whose the town attorney for the Town
17 of Gulf Stream, it's not you, is it?
18 A. I don't believe so.
19 Q. Who is it?
20 A. I think that would call for a legal conclusion.
21 Q. As well?
22 A. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if there's a town
23 attorney. I heard you ask those questions before.
24 Don't know if there's a town attorney.
25 Q. Was it Morgan's decision to not go after
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1 Joel Chandler?
2
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
3
THE WITNESS: I am not going to disclose any
4
communications that I had with my client with
5
regard to any matter.
6
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
7
Q.
Chris O'Hare, what did he do, in your opinion,
8
for him
to get, for lack of a better way of saying,
9
sucked
into this RICO suit? What did he do?
10
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
11
THE WITNESS: I'm not going to apprise you
12
with my legal opinion.
13
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Go ahead.
14
THE WITNESS: And I am not going to provide
15
you with my work product.
16
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
17
Q.
Okay. Go to the next number now.
18
A.
Yes, sir. If Mr. Goldstein will tell me what
19
that is? I think I know, it's probably 21.
20
MR. O'BOYLE: He'll probably answer for you.
21
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object. Move to strike
22
commentary.
23
THE WITNESS: So, we have Morgan's June 2,
24
2014 letter is the next heading. Twenty-one, in
25
a June 2, 2014 letter from Morgan to all Town
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1
residents, Morgan noted that the Town's general
2
fund reserves had fallen below an acceptable
3
number and blamed this occurrence on the lawsuits
4
filed by Plaintiff and another Town resident.
5
I don't remember if I had even seen that
6
letter, so -- I don't live in the Town, I don't
7
go to the Town very often.
8
Twenty-two?
9
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
10
Q.
Are you aware that Joel Chandler sent a letter, I
11
think
an e-mail actually, to Chris O'Hare absolving him
12
from any
obligations, liability and the like in
13
connection
with the RICO suit and urged the City, or the
14
Town,
to let him out of the suit?
15
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
16
THE WITNESS: I am aware that Mr. O'Hare
17
wrote a message that was read to the commission.
18
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
19
Q.
Mr. O'Hare or Mr. Chandler?
20
A.
Mr. Chandler regarding Mr. O'Hare.
21
Q.
Right. And would I be correct in saying that
22
that met deaf ears?
23
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
24
THE WITNESS: No.
25
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1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2 Q. Okay. What was the result that e-mail or letter
3 being read to the commission?
4 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
5 THE WITNESS: In terms of the decision made
6 to go forward?
7 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
8 Q. Or to not erase him from the turmoil.
9 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Form.
10 THE WITNESS: Mr. O'Hare was named in the
11 suit, but I'm not going to disclose to you my
12 communications with Mr. Chandler, my work
13 product with Mr. Chandler about Mr. O'Hare and
14 about Mr. Raider because that's work product or
15 their financial arrangements, I'm not going to
16 disclose any of that.
17 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
18 Q. But Mr. Chandler sent Mr. O'Hare a communication,
19 you are not suggesting that's privileged, are you?
20 A. No, not at all. I'm saying that I am not going
21 to disclose my work product and my interviews with
22 Mr. Chandler before he sent that and that's all I'm
23 saying.
24 Q. Okay. Now, you're aware that we took
25 Mr. Chandler's deposition on Tuesday of this week?
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1
A.
I am aware that it was finished on Tuesday of
2
this week,
but I know nothing about it.
3
Q.
If I told you he called the Town of Gulf Stream a
4
bunch
of criminals, what would you say about that?
5
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
6
THE WITNESS: That would be speculating. I
7
haven't had a chance to think about that.
8
My first reaction would be that people
9
should not speak that way even in depositions.
10
That's reckless, irresponsible to any group of
11
people. To say someone's a criminal, you know,
12
like that, I personally, you know, find that kind
13
of conduct irresponsible, but that's my own
14
personal reaction.
15
I'd have to hear the context and who the
16
people he was referring to and what the conduct
17
was, but the minute you hear a group of people
18
and they're all something, my dinger goes up.
19
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
20
Q.
Is that your laymen's opinion then?
21
A.
That's my laymen's opinion.
22
Q.
Thank you.
23
A.
That's all I can give you.
24
Q.
No, I understand. Thank you.
25
And that statement that you just made, would that
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1 apply to me. If someone were to call me a criminal?
2 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
3 THE WITNESS: Without getting into a
4 laymen's opinion, we're getting into my legal
5 opinion. And my legal opinion is an informed
6 opinion that's a result of quite a bit of work
7 product that I'm not going to share with you.
8 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
9 Q. Joel Chandler, you, in my opinion, have much more
10 knowledge about him then you do about me. He used the
11 term criminal with the Town, as I recall, were a bunch
12 of criminals or something like that, I forget the exact
13 words.
14 And what you said is, my word now, inappropriate,
15 you don't like that kind of stuff, shouldn't be said at
16 a deposition and so forth.
17 A. My first reaction is that's offensive to -- to
18 latent group of people, public officials, unless you
19 have some evidence, you are making it for a public
20 purpose.
21 I know of no basis for calling the people I have
22 dealt with at Gulf Stream criminals. I find it
23 offensive.
24 Q. If Joel had called me a criminal, would you feel
25 the same way?
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1 A. Would I be offended?
2 Q.
Would you
feel the same way? I think you were
3 beyond
offended,
but yes, would you feel offended?
4 A.
In light
of the facts that Mr. Chandler reviewed
5 to me and in light of my work product, I'm not going to
6
give you my legal opinion
as to how I
would react.
7
Q. Can you give me your laymen's opinion just as you
8
did with -- as applied to
the Town of
Gulf Stream?
9
MR. GOLDSTEIN:
Object to
the form.
10
THE WITNESS:
No, because
with regard to
11 Mr. Chandler's statement, I don't know what it
12
related to, I
have
no idea of any
facts.
13
You just
give
me, in a vacuum, something
14
that he said
with
regard to you, I
have quite a
15
bit of work product
and knowledge.
And I'm -- I
16
don't have --
it's
impossible for
me to have an
17 lay opinion now.
18 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
19
Q.
And that
lay opinion would be emanated from a
20
glass
mountain
of evidence?
21 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
22 THE WITNESS: I don't know what you're
23 referring to about a glass mountain of evidence.
24 I mean, if you're saying that the evidence I have
25 is not reliable, that's -- that's a determination
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1 to be made in different types of proceedings that
2 are --
3 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
4 Q. In connection with this litigation. And again,
5 I'm looking at it in the sense of a corral where the
6 RICO, this litigation, the records litigation, so forth,
7 all fit in there. Do you feel it's appropriate for any
8 of the lawyers to call anyone a terrorist?
9 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to form.
10 THE WITNESS: I think in court I made a
11 reference to the fact that this was a form of
12 terrorism, that was with regard to the -- what I
13 explained to the court, I believed, was the
14 abusive filing. And I did not say terrorism in a
15 middle east sense, I said that the conduct was a
16 form of terrorizing this Town.
17 And for instance, one day I heard testimony
18 you served over 350 public records requests on
19 the scanner fax machine and shut it down so that
20 the Town could not use its machinery. And that,
21 to me, is terrorizing a Town.
22 Coming in and just inundating the Town with
23 public records requests for ulterior purposes, if
24 there are ulterior purposes, could be viewed, in
25 my lay opinion, as a form of terrorism, yes.
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1 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
2 Q. What does the Supreme Court say about that?
3 A. That's a legal -- a legal opinion and I'm not
4 going to give you my legal opinion.
5 And I believe that the growth of schemes to
6 defraud that are increasing, including legal activities
7 is an issue of law that, you know, I have an opinion on
8 and I'm not going to share it with you.
9 Q. That's fine. You said 350 requests. And again,
10 this is not, maybe, the exact words, but with the goal
11 being to shut the Town down, fax machine didn't work or
12 copy machine didn't work?
13 A. They couldn't use their equipment because you
14 just non -stopped kept sending public records requests
15 in.
16 And from a lay person, I would view that as an
17 attempt to abuse the law. And unfortunately, what
18 happens when people try to use the law in abusive
19 fashions, is that society sometimes has to change the
20 laws and then everyone suffers from the conduct of a
21 few.
22 Q. So, I think I understand. So, what you're saying
23 is, just as an example, the sixty thousand records
24 requests that Mr. Chandler made in the last 12 weeks is
25 not abusive?
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1 A. I am not going to give you my opinion on
2 Mr. Chandler's conduct because it's a legal opinion.
3 Q. But you just gave me an opinion on the 350?
4 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
5 THE WITNESS: Yes, I did. And I'm not going
6 to give you a conduct -- I don't -- I don't have
7 the details. I can give you a lay person's
8 opinion.
9 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
10 Q. Go ahead.
11 A. Which is something smells pretty rotten when
12 people make 60,000 public records requests from one
13 entity. Was it done in one week? Was it done in one
14 day?
15 Q. About twelve weeks.
16 A. Okay. Well, I can't -- I need -- I would need
17 more data. It's very concerning to me because, as I've
18 said in court, anyone with ten lawyers and ten word
19 processors could robocall public records requests a
20 thousand a minute to any government agency in the state
21 and based on the current status of the law, bring an
22 agency to its knees.
23 And unfortunately, when people file public
24 records requests to be kill shots to generate lawsuits,
25 in my lay opinion, that's abusive.
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1
When people then decide to target governments and
2
then
file thousands of requests, from my lay opinion, it
3
appears
abusive.
4
So, I have learned, in my 36 years of practicing
5
law,
that there are people that have figured out how
6
they
can abuse laws. And unfortunately, when they do
7
and it
becomes detrimental, oftentimes the law changes.
8
So, I think that -- I think that that's my lay
9
opinion.
10
THE COURT REPORTER: I have to take a break.
11
THE WITNESS: Let's take a break.
12
MR. O'BOYLE: Certainly.
13
(Thereupon, a recess was taken; after which
14
the following proceedings were had:)
15
MR. O'BOYLE: I'm ready.
16
THE WITNESS: Okay. So, let's go. Which
17
number?
18
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
19
Q.
Before we get into the numbers, you had mentioned
20
a bit
ago that it was the Town's decision to proceed
21
with
the RICO suit?
22
A.
That's my understanding, yeah.
23
Q.
Okay. And where did you get that understanding?
24
A.
I saw there was a vote. I wasn't there, but I
25
read
that somewhere. That's the main basis for it.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
255
1
Q.
So, you saw there was a vote.
2
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Is there a question pending?
3
MR. O'BOYLE: Pardon?
4
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Wondering if there was a
5
question pending?
6
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
7
Q.
Do we need to go through it again? If we
8
will --
if you do, I will?
9
MR. GOLDSTEIN: No, that's --
10
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
11
Q.
Okay. Did the Town pay you the $25,000
12
deductible on your insurance policy?
13
A.
They didn't pay it to me.
14
Q.
Did they pay it on your behalf, if not to you?
15
A.
I believe so.
16
Q.
Okay. And that was -- they paid the money and
17
this was in connection with their insurance company or
18
yours?
19
A.
Mine.
20
Q.
I see. And the $25,000 was applicable to what
21
litigation?
22
A.
This litigation, I believe.
23
Q.
The one that we're here for today?
24
A.
Yes, Hm-hum.
25
Q.
It wasn't in connection with the Sunshine Suit?
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
256
1 A. No, no, I'm counsel in that case and
2 Mr. Goldstein just came in long after the deductible so
3 expired or exhausted.
4 Q. I'm sorry, can you please speak up?
5 A. Yeah, I'm sorry. The deductible and the
6 representation was in this case. Mr. Goldstein's firm
7 just came in to -- they never came into the Sunshine
8 case.
9 MR. GOLDSTEIN: We just entered an
10 appearance.
11 THE WITNESS: They entered -- oh, did you in
12 the Sunshine case?
13 MR. GOLDSTEIN: I think so.
14 MR. O'BOYLE: Please don't coach the
15 witness, Mr. Goldstein.
16 THE WITNESS: They entered an appearance in
17 the Cafi long after the deductible was
18 extinguished.
19 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
20 Q. I'm sorry, Mr. Sweetapple, Mr. Goldstein was
21 speaking while you were and I only have one good ear.
22 So, if you can give that another go, I'd appreciate it.
23 A. No. As I understand it, the $25,000 deductible
24 did not apply to anything other than the case that we're
25 deposing me in.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
257
1
Q.
Okay. And that was your insurance company and
2
the twenty-five came from the Town, correct?
3
A.
Yes.
4
Q.
Okay. In the Sunshine case, you're a Defendant,
5
is that correct?
6
A.
We've discussed that, yes. You asked me that, I
7
answered.
8
Q.
And who's counsel for Robert Sweetapple?
9
A.
My firm.
10
Q.
Okay. And who is paying the bills for the
11
representation of Robert Sweetapple?
12
A.
I don't think there have been any bills issued.
13
I think that time is being accumulated.
14
Q.
Are you expecting the Town to pay the bills?
15
A.
That's speculative.
16
Q.
Well, it's not speculative. I'm asking, are
17
they?
I'm asking you, are you expecting them?
18
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
19
Argumentative.
20
THE WITNESS: I'm keeping my records of my
21
time and I have no expectation. I would be
22
speculating.
23
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
24
Q.
As a tax payer, I'm concerned about the amount of
25
money
this is costing the Town.
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
1 Are you intending to bill the Town or as you sit
2 here today, are you intending to bill the Town?
3 A. I'm intending --
4 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to form.
5 THE WITNESS: I'm intending to actually bill
6 you. I filed a 57105 Safe Harbor Letter and I
7 don't believe that your claim that I'm a
8 government official and that my meeting with
9 Mr. O'Boyle -- I mean, Mr. Morgan with no other
10 government official there in anyway, violates the
11 Sunshine Law.
12 So, I'm actually intending to seek fees
13 against you.
14 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
15 Q. Just so I'm clear, there's a difference between
16 seek fees and collect fees. Which one are you intending
17 to do?
18 A. Both.
19 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Asked and answered.
20 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
21 Q. Both?
22 A. I believe that -- I believe that I have a bona
23 fide claim for fees in light of the complete lack of any
24 justiciable issue. And I'm -- based on what
25 Mr. Chandler told me, I expect you to be able to pay a
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
259
1 small fee award without even hesitating.
2 Q. Well, you can't believe Mr. Chandler in
3 everything he says, you know.
4 A. He was your employee, not mine.
5 MR. GOLDSTEIN: There's no question pending.
6 BY MR. O'BOYLE:
7 Q. Do you believe what Mr. Chandler -- do you
8 believe everything Mr. Chandler says?
9 A. Not everything he says, but --
10 Q. What don't you believe?
11 A. When I say I don't believe everything he says, I
12 mean, I take everything with a grain of salt.
13 There's -- I can't think of anything that
14 Mr. Chandler has told me that wasn't bourne out by my
15 investigation or that was contradicted by anything that
16
I read off the top
of
my head I
can't.
17
Well, I can
say
that in
light of -- in light of
18
what I know about
the
interview
I had with him
19 concerning Mr. O'Hare, I took what he put in his letter
20 to Mr. O'Hare and didn't believe it. That I can tell
21 you when saw that letter, I didn't believe it at all in
22 light of what I knew.
23 Q. And what letter would that be?
24 A. The letter that was read to the council or the
25 commission regarding why Mr. O'Hare shouldn't be
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
260
1 involved in the lawsuit.
2
Q.
And now you successfully confused me.
3
A.
You asked me if it there's anything that
4
Mr. Chandler
told me that I didn't believe. And I'm
5
elaborating
that the only thing I can think of is his
6
letter
to the commission based on the things that he
7
told me
about Mr. O'Hare, I took that with a complete
8
grain
of salt and didn't believe it.
9
It contradicted what I had been told and I saw it
10
as just
a coverup.
11
Q.
Okay. Mr. O'Hare is a pretty big fellow. He
12
would
be kind of hard to coverup, wouldn't he?
13
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
14
THE COURT REPORTER: Number 2.
15
(Thereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit Number 2 was
16
marked for Identification.)
17
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
18
Q.
Now, Mr. Sweetapple I don't have another copy of
19
that.
20
A.
Okay.
21
Q.
But I'm going to ask you what it is.
22
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Document speaks for itself.
23
THE WITNESS: This is a bill. It's
24
O'Boyle vs. O'Connor. And this looks like it was
25
sent out to Gulf Stream which I don't think has
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
261
1
happened since then because my office didn't
2
realize this is not a O'Boyle vs. Gulf Stream or
3
they saw -- probably saw O'Boyle vs. O'Connor,
4
Morgan, whatever, thought it was a Gulf Stream
5
case.
6
So, this is a bill or a matter that I'm
7
accruing time on.
8
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
9
Q.
And is there a bill amount there?
10
A.
$8,260.
11
Q.
And if we were to short form the name of that,
12
would
we call that the Sunshine Suit?
13
A.
I believe this is a Sunshine Suit.
14
Q.
Okay. And that's the same suit where you said
15
you were
not billing, you were just collecting your
16
time?
17
A.
Collecting, right.
18
Q.
Is that correct?
19
A.
Yes. It looks like they printed out a bill in
20
that matter
and sent it.
21
Q.
That is what it looks like, doesn't it?
22
A.
Yeah. I hope it only happened once, but they
23
would
certainly -- this is certainly -- this is not a
24
Gulf Stream
Defendant case.
25
Q.
But you sent the bill to Gulf Stream, didn't you?
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
262
1 A. I didn't, but apparently my office did.
2 Q. And if Gulf Stream paid it, are you going to
3 refund it?
4 A. I'm going to give them a credit for this.
5 Q. Okay. And if there was another bill and Gulf
6 Stream paid it, are you going to fund it or give them a
7 credit?
8 A. Yeah. Anything -- this was -- this is a case
9 where I am personally a Defendant and Gulf Stream is not
10 a Defendant.
11 So, if Gulf Stream was improperly billed any of
12 those, I'll give them the credit. And if I don't
13 collect the fees from you, then I'll decide if I want to
14 bill Gulf Stream for my fees in defending myself from
15 going to their settlement conference.
16 Q. And who is defending or who's defending Gulf
17 Stream in this suit?
18 A. I think Mr. Hochman's firm.
19 Q. Didn't you just tell me that Gulf Stream wasn't
20 in this suit?
21 A. Mr. Morgan is in the suit. No, now you're
22 confusing me. This suit -- I think there's an insurance
23 council, either through the League Of Cities or through
24 the Jones Foster Law Firm, but I don't really know the
25 specifics of how they got their counsel. I can't
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
263
1 remember who it is.
2
Q.
Okay. But we are squared away.
3
MR. O'BOYLE: Is that P2?
4
THE WITNESS: Yes, P2.
5
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
6
Q.
P2 is an invoice from the Sweetapple firm for
7
$8,200
in connection with the Sweetapple firm
8
representing Mr. Sweetapple in the -- what we're calling
9
the Sunshine
Suit?
10
A.
Right.
11
Q.
Right?
12
A.
Yes. O'Boyle vs. O'Connor is a matter, but it's
13
not --
it's not a Gulf Stream Defendant case.
14
Q.
Okay. You don't consider yourself a terrorist,
15
do you?
16
A.
No.
17
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to form.
18
MR. HOCHMAN: Can I see the exhibit, please?
19
BY MR.
O'BOYLE:
20
Q.
Would you consider Mr. O'Hare a terrorist?
21
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Object to the form.
22
THE WITNESS: Do you want me to answer that
23
by disclosing what Mr. Chandler told me you and
24
he were doing?
25
Daughters Reporting, Inc.
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 954-755-6401
�%. "
1 B Y M R . O '